I'm on strike

[jeffandnicole]

Heck...most of the grocery stories I'm familiar with still have the analog scales to give you an idea of how much something weighs!

[abefroman329]

Heck...most of the grocery stories I'm familiar with still have the analog scales to give you an idea of how much something weighs!

I've found those are getting rarer and rarer, probably because you make more money selling someone two pounds of potatoes when they only needed one, but guesstimated and got it wrong.

[Scott5114]

Crest has the traditional analog scales in the produce section, but in the bulk items aisle (nuts, olive oil, honey, fresh-ground peanut butter, candy, etc.) they have the label-print scales.

[hotdogPi]

My store doesn't have automatic scales, but for some reason, I can't remember if it has regular scales or not.

[formulanone]

Crest has the traditional analog scales in the produce section, but in the bulk items aisle (nuts, olive oil, honey, fresh-ground peanut butter, candy, etc.) they have the label-print scales.

Publix Supermarkets tend to have these; not sure if they're required by law to have them (with some Not Legal For Trade decals), or for convenience.

[vdeane]

This brings me full-circle to this thread's subject: I have no doubt a chain like Wegmans, headquartered in a state with a much stronger union tradition and more left-leaning politics than Virginia, would be less likely to adopt the self-scanner guns because of the perception that they would take away union jobs at the checkout. (Really, think about how stupid the conventional grocery checkout is: You take all these items out of your cart so that a store employee can rearrange them, bag them, and put them back in your cart.)

Oddly enough, Wegmans stores (not the warehouses) are non-union.  Some blue collar workers refuse to shop there for that reason.

As for the checkout process... how do you take groceries in if they aren't in bags?

[cl94]

Oddly enough, Wegmans stores (not the warehouses) are non-union.  Some blue collar workers refuse to shop there for that reason.

Yeah, I knew a ton of people in Buffalo who refused to shop at Wegmans because they're not unionized. Doesn't matter that Wegmans paid better and provided better benefits than Tops (the union supermarket in town). In fact, most retailers that are supposedly very good to work for aren't union shops.

[1995hoo]

....

As for the checkout process... how do you take groceries in if they aren't in bags?

Couple of things.

(1) When I was in high school, my mom shopped at Shoppers Food Warehouse. Like some other lower-cost chains (like Aldi), you had to pack your own groceries there. They also charged 3¢ per bag if you wanted grocery bags. Most people used cardboard boxes, and the store facilitated that by making used boxes available for free. There's really no particular reason why grocery bags, either one-time use or reusable, are needed. (I use reusable bags mainly because they're sturdier and they hold more than the plastic or paper bags.)

(2) Regarding the checkout process generally, see my comment above about the self-scanner thing. When you use that, your groceries are already bagged (or boxed) before you ever reach the checkout. You don't have to take anything out at the checkout unless the system flags you for audit, in which case an employee has to rescan something like 10 of your items just as a way of verifying that you didn't, say, scan a bunch of packages of M&Ms while instead you filled your bag with filet mignon.

Somewhere I have a picture of the self-scanner thing, but it pushed off the photo stream on my iPad. I think I may have posted it somewhere on this forum in the past. If I can find it, I'll edit this.

Edited to add: Found the photos in an old post. The end-of-order process has been changed a little since I made this post–now, instead of scanning a barcode on a sign, you tell the device you're done and it generates a barcode you then scan at the checkout.

....

The store where we do our grocery shopping also has some self-scanner devices (they call it the "SCAN IT!" system) where you scan your grocery-store card when you arrive, take a scanner, and scan your groceries as you go. Since we use the reusable bags, we bag them as we go. Saves a lot of time at the checkout because all you do is scan an "end of order" barcode, then scan your grocery-store card again, enter the number of reusable bags (they give you 5¢ off per bag), scan any coupons, and pay (also if you buy beer or wine the attendant has to come over to tell it you're legal). It works really well most of the time and it also gives you discounts on various things based on your shopping history. But the people who don't understand the self-checkout are COMPLETELY CONFOUNDED when they see you waiting on line to pay but not putting any of your groceries on the checkout belt! I like the system because we use the reusable bags, which means I prefer to bag the groceries myself since I have a sense for what I'm buying and how it all fits best into the bags, whereas the cashiers/bag boys just stuff things in any old way.

I would use that system in a heartbeat! What stores have it? When I lived in VA I worked for a local Hampton Roads-area chain and the only exposure to self checkouts I had down there was Food Lion and Kroger.

....

Many, though not all, Giant stores in Northern Virginia have it. When you enter the store this display is off to one side; you scan your card and a scanner lights up and you take that scanner.




The shopping cart has a metal doohickey on top that's sort of like a holster and you put the scanner in that. A lot of things can be scanned without removing the device from the cart (you press the yellow button to scan).




When you're done and you get to the checkout, you scan this barcode first (they've since changed the setup slightly, mainly to use a better sign, but the process is the same) and then you scan your store card, coupons, enter the number of reusable bags, get carded if necessary, and pay.



....

[KEVIN_224]

Stop & Shop has the hand-held scanners for shopping, too. At least Berlin, CT (store #614) does. Also, those Giant signs are quite old! Hell, most Stop & Shop store in greater Hartford don't even use the "fruit basket" logo anymore.

[1995hoo]

^^^

If you look at the date of my prior post, you'll see it's from 2012. (They also dropped the 5¢-per-bag discount several years ago.)

[NE2]

I have a box of a hundred cloth bags. Can I get $5 off if I bring it?

[SectorZ]

https://turtleboysports.com/any-sympathy-i-had-for-stop-n-shop-workers-is-gone-after-the-publicly-shamed-and-harassed-ray-bourque-for-buying-food/

Well at least they're being respectful for people who want to eat.

This stuff is why I don't support unions at all anymore. I live right down the street for a large natural gas transfer station and tank (since you guys know my town here - you can find it on Google, it sticks out pretty dramatically). The National Grid gas workers were locked out and harassing anyone who didn't support them and God forbid a "scab" was doing "their" work. Not to mention the Teamsters on trial in my state for calling a particular celebrity Chef various synonyms for her lady parts because she didn't hire them along with vandalizing their property (https://deadline.com/2017/08/top-chef-teamsters-trial-padma-lakshmi-testimony-terrified-threatened-1202143892/).

As an aside, the only people making money in lockouts and strikes are all the cops getting extra details. That 6 month NG lockout needed 3 cops at all times 24/7 at the entrance. I know the bill, just for the details at that one place, totaled around a million dollars. Of course, if you read that deadline story I linked, they turn a blind eye to union violence as well.

[inkyatari]

I've had a few run ins with unions, none of them good.

Once my father was rehabbing a building for an ice cream shop he was going to open.  A couple union people came in and told him that if he doesn't hire union electricians, they may be forced to picket. (My dad was not a rich man by any stretch of the imagination, and could not afford to hire union.)

Once I was working a computer show in Dayton, Ohio with a friend.  Sometime during the last day of the show, the guy who I was doing the show with became horribly ill, to the point that he couldn't do much. I had to pack up the entire booth we had.  What normally should have taken two hours took me four because of this.  Around ten PM all the vendors were gone.  A few minutes later some guy with the union came by in a golf cart.  I was having tremendous trouble trying to move something, and I asked if he could give me a hand.  He looked at me, shook his head no, and smiled the whole time I was struggling to get the rest of our stuff boxed and loaded.

I have no love for unions because of these situations.

That is all I am going to say on this topic.

[Rothman]

https://turtleboysports.com/any-sympathy-i-had-for-stop-n-shop-workers-is-gone-after-the-publicly-shamed-and-harassed-ray-bourque-for-buying-food/

Well at least they're being respectful for people who want to eat.

This stuff is why I don't support unions at all anymore. I live right down the street for a large natural gas transfer station and tank (since you guys know my town here - you can find it on Google, it sticks out pretty dramatically). The National Grid gas workers were locked out and harassing anyone who didn't support them and God forbid a "scab" was doing "their" work. Not to mention the Teamsters on trial in my state for calling a particular celebrity Chef various synonyms for her lady parts because she didn't hire them along with vandalizing their property (https://deadline.com/2017/08/top-chef-teamsters-trial-padma-lakshmi-testimony-terrified-threatened-1202143892/).

As an aside, the only people making money in lockouts and strikes are all the cops getting extra details. That 6 month NG lockout needed 3 cops at all times 24/7 at the entrance. I know the bill, just for the details at that one place, totaled around a million dollars. Of course, if you read that deadline story I linked, they turn a blind eye to union violence as well.

God forbid a scab doing their work?  Absolutely.  Crossing picket lines hurts everyone.

[SectorZ]

https://turtleboysports.com/any-sympathy-i-had-for-stop-n-shop-workers-is-gone-after-the-publicly-shamed-and-harassed-ray-bourque-for-buying-food/

Well at least they're being respectful for people who want to eat.

This stuff is why I don't support unions at all anymore. I live right down the street for a large natural gas transfer station and tank (since you guys know my town here - you can find it on Google, it sticks out pretty dramatically). The National Grid gas workers were locked out and harassing anyone who didn't support them and God forbid a "scab" was doing "their" work. Not to mention the Teamsters on trial in my state for calling a particular celebrity Chef various synonyms for her lady parts because she didn't hire them along with vandalizing their property (https://deadline.com/2017/08/top-chef-teamsters-trial-padma-lakshmi-testimony-terrified-threatened-1202143892/).

As an aside, the only people making money in lockouts and strikes are all the cops getting extra details. That 6 month NG lockout needed 3 cops at all times 24/7 at the entrance. I know the bill, just for the details at that one place, totaled around a million dollars. Of course, if you read that deadline story I linked, they turn a blind eye to union violence as well.

God forbid a scab doing their work?  Absolutely.  Crossing picket lines hurts everyone.

Slashing people's tires ACTUALLY hurts someone.

[MNHighwayMan]

God forbid a scab doing their work?  Absolutely.  Crossing picket lines hurts everyone.

Slashing people's tires ACTUALLY hurts someone.

As does allowing employers to hold all the cards in labor negotiations.

Scummy tactics from a handful of unions and/or their members does not represent the whole.

[SectorZ]

God forbid a scab doing their work?  Absolutely.  Crossing picket lines hurts everyone.

Slashing people's tires ACTUALLY hurts someone.

As does allowing employers to hold all the cards in labor negotiations.

Scummy tactics from a handful of unions and/or their members does not represent the whole.

My problem is that too many people turned a blind eye to it. My state's AG, Maura Healey, wouldn't even give her campaign donations back to the Teamsters despite them calling a woman a "dyke" for not hiring them (Healey is a lesbian for those who are not in the know). It finally took the media shaming her for her to do it.

These same people ALWAYS come out siding with the unions, with no expectations that the members should behave themselves. The other members won't police their own, so why the hell should I sympathize with them? They have a one-for-all, all-for-one mentality; let it extend to their individual actions being representative of the union.

[hotdogPi]

Also keep in mind that usually, a compromise is reached, giving better working conditions than without a union, without requiring a strike. Even though there are always a few strikes going on throughout the country, that's just a few out of thousands.

[jeffandnicole]

Automation may eventually eliminate most service jobs. We've seen it with self-checkout. I'm assuming the same thing happened when self-serve gas pumps became a thing.  There aren't any more telephone exchange operators (and I believe they had a union). All the apps that pertain to food delivery cut out the middle man at point-of-sale.  I hear what the union is saying loud and clear, but I can't find a reason to support their cause when the jobs market is doing well and a company's primary job is to make money, even if that means changes in wages and benefits.

Automation isn't the main reason for this strike.

I know but it's a reason not to support it.

Automation fears at one point meant PLU scanners. Employees feared that since it would allow faster checkouts, fewer employees would be needed. Cashiers wanted to keep punching in the amounts by hand, reading the price sticker stamped on the product. Scanners were also often accused as being inaccurate due to programming errors. Of course, if a cashier typed in the wrong amount, there was no way to match up a generic price with a product on the receipt, especially when buying a week's worth of groceries.

Those pricing stickers some have noted at the produce area? Wouldn't exist today if PLU scanners weren't at the checkouts.

Automation isn't a bad thing. And while there may be fewer cashiers needed in the long run, many other jobs were CREATED due to the businesses set up to develop and build those scanners.

[jp the roadgeek]

There is also a ScanIT app for Stop & Shop (and I'm sure other Ahold/Delhaize stores) through iTunes (and I'm sure Google Play) that even replaces the wands.  I've used it a few times.  The only thing I DETEST about using that system is when I get flagged for a random audit.  Makes me feel singled out like a criminal, and then you have to stand there and wait while the attendant covering the self-checkout scans EVERY LAST item in your bags.  At that point, it's now even worth using it.

[cjk374]

Wow. Reading all of this about union grocery stores is fascinating. Here in Louisiana, AFAIK, no such critter exists. LA is a right-to-work state. Unions do exist here however. I, myself, am a general chairman at my railroad with the SMART-TD union (formerly UTU). I represent 5 other employees. Railroad unions are a bit different from grocery store unions to the fact that we don't have a direct impact/interaction with the general public.

Don't get me wrong...there are plenty of other unions here in LA. Electrical unions, unions representing manufactured goods (glass, wood, & metal sinks are just a few around me) are here, but I don't think they have near the clout that y'all's unions have up north. If any shoppers were being harassed by angry union employees down here, many major ass-whoopins would be taking place in the parking lots. It would not be a pretty sight.
______________________________________________________

As for McDonald's ordering kiosks are concerned: One of Ruston's 2 McDonalds had them installed during a renovation. I paid it no attention when I walked in because I had no idea what they were. I walked up to the counter to place my order. The manager walked up to me & asked if I wanted to use the new kiosks. I told her, "No not really. I think the human can put my order in faster." But I reluctantly gave it a shot.

Guess what. I was right. The time it took me to figure the machine out...I was placing an order for 3 meals, 2 of them had omissions & additions...with the manager helping me out, I could have been walking out of the restaurant with my food had the human been behind the counter taking my order.

The manager told me that by the end of 2019, all McDonalds restaurants would have the kiosks installed. I looked behind the counter at the employees and I told them, "Y'all do realize these machines will be taking some of your jobs, right?" The manager, with a frightened look on her face, said, "Oh no sir, that is not true. In fact, these will create an extra job or two at each store."

I asked her, "What will the 'cashiers' be doing if the kiosks are doing their job?"

She told me (while my BULLSHIT!! alarms are going off in my head), "The kiosks will allow our employees to walk the floor and mingle with the customers."

I have an honest question for y'all:  Do any of y'all go to McDonalds wishing & hoping their employees could come to your table & socialize with you while you are eating?

This pretty much means I will most likely be using the drive thru if I ever go to McDonalds.

[1995hoo]

There is also a ScanIT app for Stop & Shop (and I'm sure other Ahold/Delhaize stores) through iTunes (and I'm sure Google Play) that even replaces the wands.  I've used it a few times.  The only thing I DETEST about using that system is when I get flagged for a random audit.  Makes me feel singled out like a criminal, and then you have to stand there and wait while the attendant covering the self-checkout scans EVERY LAST item in your bags.  At that point, it's now even worth using it.

I tried using the app one time. Too awkward, especially for things like beer where the barcode was on the bottom of the package. I found the scanner gun a lot easier to operate for that sort of thing.

[kphoger]

while there may be fewer cashiers needed in the long run, many other jobs were CREATED due to the businesses set up to develop and build those scanners.

Note that I am not against automation...

How many fewer cashiers ended up being needed?  How many jobs were created to develop and build the scanners?  I'd suggest that the first number is much, much larger than the second.

[J N Winkler]

Note that I am not against automation...

How many fewer cashiers ended up being needed?  How many jobs were created to develop and build the scanners?  I'd suggest that the first number is much, much larger than the second.

The experience of automation in the retail space has been very mixed, particularly with self-checkouts that operate on the model of transferring the labor of scanning from (trained, experienced, paid) cashiers to (untrained, inexperienced, unpaid) consumers.  Often the final outcome depends on personnel management practices that have nothing to do with the technology itself.

For example, a few months ago I found myself in Walmart buying twelve bags of fifteen-bean soup.  I went straight to the self-checkout and the clerk minding the self-checkouts was at my elbow within five seconds, asking if I wanted to take a survey.  "Don't do surveys," I said, and she went away.  After the sixth bag I noted the running tally was showing seven bags.  So I touched the touchscreen to try to remove one of the bags from the count, and of course the system needed clerk intervention to accomplish this.  All of the other self-checkouts were in use, so I had to wait for five minutes before another one freed up and I could transfer my bags to it, abandoning the transaction at the first self-checkout.  I had rung up all twelve bags and was paying by the time the clerk showed up to clear the aborted transaction.

Things run much more smoothly at Dillons supermarkets (I shop there almost exclusively, but still have to go to Walmart for a few items such as fifteen-bean soup).

The Atlantic--How to steal from self-checkouts

Vox--Why self-checkout should die

[Scott5114]

I probably would have just left the twelfth bag in the cart without scanning it. As long as the final receipt says twelve bags and I have twelve bags, there's not really much to be gained by having the extra bag voided, and it would be obvious I wasn't stealing anything should I be confronted on the matter.