News:

Thank you for your patience during the Forum downtime while we upgraded the software. Welcome back and see this thread for some new features and other changes to the forum.

Main Menu

Risk Aversion

Started by Max Rockatansky, June 07, 2022, 12:53:43 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Big John

Half-dollar coins seem rarer than dollar coins.  The last ones I've seen were minted in the 1970s.


kphoger

Quote from: Big John on June 08, 2022, 12:02:35 PM
Half-dollar coins seem rarer than dollar coins.  The last ones I've seen were minted in the 1970s.

I was just using them as a proxy for dollar coins, because I couldn't find an authoritative source for the production costs for dollar coins.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

triplemultiplex

Motorcycles.  I think they are a useful gauge for how risk-averse a person is.  Someone willing to ride a motorcycle on a regular basis in the United States, in my observation, has a high tolerance for risk or a low appreciation of risk.  And I'm not even talking about the jags who do wheelies or ride dirt bikes off jumps or whatever. Simply driving around in traffic on a motorcycle is far more dangerous to the individual than if they were in a normal vehicle.  Even more so if they don't wear a goddamn helmet.

So in my mind, it's like "Yeah I go hiking by myself, but it's not like I'm getting there on a motorbike!"
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

kphoger

Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 08, 2022, 03:00:49 PM
Motorcycles.  I think they are a useful gauge for how risk-averse a person is.  Someone willing to ride a motorcycle on a regular basis in the United States, in my observation, has a high tolerance for risk or a low appreciation of risk.  And I'm not even talking about the jags who do wheelies or ride dirt bikes off jumps or whatever. Simply driving around in traffic on a motorcycle is far more dangerous to the individual than if they were in a normal vehicle.  Even more so if they don't wear a goddamn helmet.

So in my mind, it's like "Yeah I go hiking by myself, but it's not like I'm getting there on a motorbike!"

Even at slow speeds.  My best friend rode his motorcycle, by himself, more than 1060 miles from Parras (Coahuila) to Whitewater (KS) without a problem.  But, while he was doing a technical ride off-pavement east of Wichita with some guys from church a while later, he couldn't keep the bike up on one turn and his knee ended up underneath it.  Blood everywhere, and more than an hour's drive to the hospital.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

webny99

Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 08, 2022, 03:00:49 PM
Motorcycles.  I think they are a useful gauge for how risk-averse a person is.  Someone willing to ride a motorcycle on a regular basis in the United States, in my observation, has a high tolerance for risk or a low appreciation of risk.  And I'm not even talking about the jags who do wheelies or ride dirt bikes off jumps or whatever. Simply driving around in traffic on a motorcycle is far more dangerous to the individual than if they were in a normal vehicle.  Even more so if they don't wear a goddamn helmet.

So in my mind, it's like "Yeah I go hiking by myself, but it's not like I'm getting there on a motorbike!"

Great point and could not agree more! I have never been on a motorcycle and have no interest in ever doing so. It's just a recipe for something bad to happen.

kphoger

Quote from: webny99 on June 08, 2022, 03:20:25 PM

Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 08, 2022, 03:00:49 PM
Motorcycles.  I think they are a useful gauge for how risk-averse a person is.  Someone willing to ride a motorcycle on a regular basis in the United States, in my observation, has a high tolerance for risk or a low appreciation of risk.  And I'm not even talking about the jags who do wheelies or ride dirt bikes off jumps or whatever. Simply driving around in traffic on a motorcycle is far more dangerous to the individual than if they were in a normal vehicle.  Even more so if they don't wear a goddamn helmet.

So in my mind, it's like "Yeah I go hiking by myself, but it's not like I'm getting there on a motorbike!"

Great point and could not agree more! I have never been on a motorcycle and have no interest in ever doing so. It's just a recipe for something bad to happen.

What about cycling in the mountains, where bicycle speeds can easily reach 45 mph or more on downhills?
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 03:28:47 PM
Quote from: webny99 on June 08, 2022, 03:20:25 PM

Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 08, 2022, 03:00:49 PM
Motorcycles.  I think they are a useful gauge for how risk-averse a person is.  Someone willing to ride a motorcycle on a regular basis in the United States, in my observation, has a high tolerance for risk or a low appreciation of risk.  And I'm not even talking about the jags who do wheelies or ride dirt bikes off jumps or whatever. Simply driving around in traffic on a motorcycle is far more dangerous to the individual than if they were in a normal vehicle.  Even more so if they don't wear a goddamn helmet.

So in my mind, it's like "Yeah I go hiking by myself, but it's not like I'm getting there on a motorbike!"

Great point and could not agree more! I have never been on a motorcycle and have no interest in ever doing so. It's just a recipe for something bad to happen.

What about cycling in the mountains, where bicycle speeds can easily reach 45 mph or more on downhills?

I've owned numerous motorized dirt bikes over the years and crashed them dozens of times, likewise I've owned numerous trail bikes.  I've found the difference between crashing on a dirt bike and a trail bike to be largely to be a wash.  I did barrel roll an ATV once which netted me a conclusion plus broken left ankle.

MikieTimT

Quote from: formulanone on June 08, 2022, 08:03:53 AM
Quote from: 1 on June 08, 2022, 07:10:16 AM
$1 bills shouldn't exist anymore, anyway. Canada, the UK, the euro, Australia, and New Zealand all have 1 and 2 as coins, while their lowest banknote is 5. (Switzerland and Japan go farther and have 5 francs and 500 yen as coins and 10 francs and 1000 yen as the lowest banknote, but I don't think we need to do that.)

All the currencies I mentioned are somewhat similar to the US dollar (New Zealand at NZ$3=US$2 is the farthest away), with some above and some below, except Japan where yen are basically cents instead of dollars.

Talk to the Bureau of Printing and Engraving and let them know how you feel about that.

We can't even get rid of the one cent piece without people losing their mind.

Methinks with the current level of inflation, it's time to revisit the notion of the penny.

Scott5114

Quote from: formulanone on June 08, 2022, 08:03:53 AM
Quote from: 1 on June 08, 2022, 07:10:16 AM
$1 bills shouldn't exist anymore, anyway. Canada, the UK, the euro, Australia, and New Zealand all have 1 and 2 as coins, while their lowest banknote is 5. (Switzerland and Japan go farther and have 5 francs and 500 yen as coins and 10 francs and 1000 yen as the lowest banknote, but I don't think we need to do that.)

All the currencies I mentioned are somewhat similar to the US dollar (New Zealand at NZ$3=US$2 is the farthest away), with some above and some below, except Japan where yen are basically cents instead of dollars.

Talk to the Bureau of Printing and Engraving and let them know how you feel about that.

We can't even get rid of the one cent piece without people losing their mind.

The Sacajawea dollar in 2000 was intended as the first step in a transition to eliminating the $1 bill.

That plan was blocked by the senator from Massachusetts, where the company that makes the currency paper is located. Now it is illegal for the BEP to change the $1 bill in any way (which is also why its design doesn't match any of the other bills).
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: MikieTimT on June 08, 2022, 03:45:04 PM
Quote from: formulanone on June 08, 2022, 08:03:53 AM
Quote from: 1 on June 08, 2022, 07:10:16 AM
$1 bills shouldn't exist anymore, anyway. Canada, the UK, the euro, Australia, and New Zealand all have 1 and 2 as coins, while their lowest banknote is 5. (Switzerland and Japan go farther and have 5 francs and 500 yen as coins and 10 francs and 1000 yen as the lowest banknote, but I don't think we need to do that.)

All the currencies I mentioned are somewhat similar to the US dollar (New Zealand at NZ$3=US$2 is the farthest away), with some above and some below, except Japan where yen are basically cents instead of dollars.

Talk to the Bureau of Printing and Engraving and let them know how you feel about that.

We can't even get rid of the one cent piece without people losing their mind.

Methinks with the current level of inflation, it's time to revisit the notion of the penny.

Just shove about $1 billion worth of pork Illinois' way and that should do it.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

Scott5114

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 08, 2022, 04:42:04 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on June 08, 2022, 03:45:04 PM
Quote from: formulanone on June 08, 2022, 08:03:53 AM
Quote from: 1 on June 08, 2022, 07:10:16 AM
$1 bills shouldn't exist anymore, anyway. Canada, the UK, the euro, Australia, and New Zealand all have 1 and 2 as coins, while their lowest banknote is 5. (Switzerland and Japan go farther and have 5 francs and 500 yen as coins and 10 francs and 1000 yen as the lowest banknote, but I don't think we need to do that.)

All the currencies I mentioned are somewhat similar to the US dollar (New Zealand at NZ$3=US$2 is the farthest away), with some above and some below, except Japan where yen are basically cents instead of dollars.

Talk to the Bureau of Printing and Engraving and let them know how you feel about that.

We can't even get rid of the one cent piece without people losing their mind.

Methinks with the current level of inflation, it's time to revisit the notion of the penny.

Just shove about $1 billion worth of pork Illinois' way and that should do it.

I seem to recall hearing that Arizona is also culpable in keeping the penny around–lots of zinc mining goes on there.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

kphoger

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 08, 2022, 04:32:46 PM
The Sacajawea dollar in 2000 was intended as the first step in a transition to eliminating the $1 bill.

That plan was blocked by the senator from Massachusetts, where the company that makes the currency paper is located. Now it is illegal for the BEP to change the $1 bill in any way (which is also why its design doesn't match any of the other bills).

But could they cut production down to, say, 1000 bills a year and then mint gazillions of dollar coins?
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

hotdogPi

Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 05:06:52 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 08, 2022, 04:32:46 PM
The Sacajawea dollar in 2000 was intended as the first step in a transition to eliminating the $1 bill.

That plan was blocked by the senator from Massachusetts, where the company that makes the currency paper is located. Now it is illegal for the BEP to change the $1 bill in any way (which is also why its design doesn't match any of the other bills).

But could they cut production down to, say, 1000 bills a year and then mint gazillions of dollar coins?

They would probably object to that if that was the only thing, but if they switched from making a whole bunch of $1 bills to making a whole bunch of $2 bills (with $1 coins by the Mint), they would probably be fine with it.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

kphoger

In case anyone is wondering, the production cost is the same for $1 bills as for $2 bills.  In fact, they're listed together.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

hbelkins

So many sub-subjects in this thread...



Three things I have not had:

  • A covid shot
  • A covid test
  • Covid

I know there are some who would say that not taking the shot was a risky decision, but I will be honest and say I still don't trust the vaccine to be free of long-term effects, especially with so many cases of myocardia (sp?) and something being referred to as SADS (sudden adult death syndrome, similar to SIDS but happening to adults) in vaccinated individuals. Given what we don't know about the long-term effects of the shot (and now, it would appear, emerging medium-term effects) coupled with my own habits and behaviors, and the actual case rates, I determined that the best decision for me was to not get the shot. There was a very small likelihood that I would catch the virus, and an even smaller likelihood that I would die from it, versus the unknowns about the shot. I would venture to say that taking the shot was riskier than not taking it, especially since the shot has proven to be so ineffective at preventing people from getting the virus.




I'm living in the house that my family built when I was in high school. Over the years, and especially after I moved out of the house in the early 1990s and even after my wife and I started living here in 2011, my old bedroom has become a catch-all for junk. You could barely get the door open, stuff had just been thrown in there. Over the last few days, my wife has decided to clean out that room and turn it into a man cave for me. After bags and boxes and assorted loose items were peeled away, on the floor were two extremely heavy boxes of pennies that had been saved in the 1980s and early '90s and meticulously rolled into 50-cent rolls. She counted them and there were 379 rolls. I had started another jar sometime in my younger days, so I found an empty roller and rolled up another 50 pennies to come up with an even 380 rolls, or $190. Those pennies are going to the bank later this week to be deposited into my account to fund the acquisition of a new turntable to go with the receiver, cassette deck, and speakers that were also unearthed.

My dad had gobs more pennies saved in jars that were never counted and rolled, so he could easily have accumulated more than $200 worth over the years.

I know it's been discussed before, but as long as prices can end up in figures not divisible by five, I do not favor the abolition of the one-cent coin. if I buy something that costs $3.86, then I don't want to give the store any more than the cost. Why should I pay $3.90 and let them keep the profit?




The riskiest behavior I can think of is riding a motorcycle without a helmet. It's amazing to me that the same federal government that requires states to pass seat belt laws allows states like Kentucky to repeal helmet laws.

And bicycling can be dangerous too (and not in the way the anti-car crowd claims.) Some of you may be familiar with David Edgren. He was active back in the day on MTR and, as it turns out, actually went to college at UK so he has a Kentucky connection. He's done a number of long-distance bike rides, including the entire Mississippi River Trail a few years ago. He and a friend planned a coast-to-coast ride a few years ago, but a few days into it, he suffered a life-changing accident. He was biking on a rough rural road somewhere out west, went tumbling over the handlebars, and broke his neck upon impact. He's lucky to have survived; when he didn't show up at camp that night his riding partner came looking for him and found him lying helpless unable to move. He's now a tetraplegic. (Another term for quadriplegic, I have since discovered.)


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

hotdogPi

Places that round to the nearest five cents round whichever way is closer. $3.86 would round down to $3.85, not up to $3.90.

And the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) have no ill effects, contrary to what you claim.

(The thread lock risk stuff is supposed to go in the Crash_It thread, though, not this one.)
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

abefroman329

Quote from: hbelkins on June 08, 2022, 05:44:49 PMThree things I have not had:

  • A covid shot
  • A covid test
  • Covid
If you haven't had a COVID test, then you don't know that you've never had COVID, do you?

abefroman329

Quote from: 1 on June 08, 2022, 05:54:37 PMAnd the mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) have no ill effects, contrary to what you claim.
They also don't prevent you from getting COVID, they just make it far less likely that you'll end up in the hospital.

kphoger

Quote from: hbelkins on June 08, 2022, 05:44:49 PM
I know it's been discussed before, but as long as prices can end up in figures not divisible by five, I do not favor the abolition of the one-cent coin. if I buy something that costs $3.86, then I don't want to give the store any more than the cost. Why should I pay $3.90 and let them keep the profit?

Quote from: 1 on June 08, 2022, 05:54:37 PM
Places that round to the nearest five cents round whichever way is closer. $3.86 would round down to $3.85, not up to $3.90.

This.  You would pay $3.85, and you would keep the profit, not the business.

Besides which, you're already rounding anyway as it is.  If you buy a Dr Pepper for $1.50 and the tax rate is 7%, you don't actually pay the store $1.605.  No, you pay the store $1.61, and they *gasp* keep the profit!

But, if the person behind you buys a pair of sunglasses for $11.89, she doesn't actually pay the store $12.7223.  No, she pays the store $12.72, and she keeps the profit.




Quote from: abefroman329 on June 08, 2022, 06:38:19 PM
If you haven't had a COVID test, then you don't know that you've never had COVID, do you?

In my opinion, this is a matter of semantics.  The D in COVID stands for 'disease'.  While the technical medical definition of 'disease' may include the asymptomatic carrying of a pathogen, that's not necessarily the way people use the word.  For example, Merriam-Webster defines it as 'a condition ... that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms'.  Therefore, if HB's bodily functions have not been impaired, and if he hasn't had any signs and symptoms, then it's perfectly reasonable for him to say he hasn't had a disease.  If he hasn't had a COVID test, then he doesn't know if he's had the SARS-CoV-2 virus, but I've been uncomfortable with the conflation of those two terms this whole time.

It's similar to how I tell people I got sick from both the second shot and the booster.  Some people correct me by saying I didn't actually get sick–I just had symptoms.  Well, to my way of thinking, if a foreign substance was introduced into my body and I suffered ill effects as a direct result of that, then yes, it made me sick.

Or, if someone says they've never had influenza, nobody contradicts them by saying they can't know for sure because 1 in 3 people infected with the influenza virus are asymptomatic.  Or, when I say I've had influenza twice in my life, nobody corrects me by saying I might have had it more times than that.

It's just a matter of how we use words.

Quote from: hbelkins on June 08, 2022, 05:44:49 PM
I know there are some who would say that not taking the shot was a risky decision, but I will be honest and say I still don't trust the vaccine to be free of long-term effects, especially with so many cases of myocardia (sp?) and something being referred to as SADS (sudden adult death syndrome, similar to SIDS but happening to adults) in vaccinated individuals. Given what we don't know about the long-term effects of the shot (and now, it would appear, emerging medium-term effects) coupled with my own habits and behaviors, and the actual case rates, I determined that the best decision for me was to not get the shot. There was a very small likelihood that I would catch the virus, and an even smaller likelihood that I would die from it, versus the unknowns about the shot. I would venture to say that taking the shot was riskier than not taking it, especially since the shot has proven to be so ineffective at preventing people from getting the virus.

I don't want to debate whether people should or should not have gotten vaccinated.  That horse is well beaten by now, and I have zero desire to reopen the subject.

But it sounds to me like you were actually making what you considered to be the safer choice.  People can tell you it wasn't actually the safer choice, but that isn't my point.  The point is that–even if you were erroneous in believing you made the safer choice–safety was still your motivation (at least, if you're being honest with yourself and with us about your motivation).

In contrast, I know plenty of unvaccinated people for whom safety was not their motivation.  I know plenty of people who simply considered the risk of remaining unvaccinated to be small enough:  that is, even without thinking the vaccine was riskier than the virus itself, they still chose not to get vaccinated–which means they actually made what they considered to be the riskier choice.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: abefroman329 on June 08, 2022, 06:38:19 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 08, 2022, 05:44:49 PMThree things I have not had:

  • A covid shot
  • A covid test
  • Covid
If you haven't had a COVID test, then you don't know that you've never had COVID, do you?

The one test I had was last year when I was when my wife brought me to a testing center because I was having flu symptoms.  Turns out I really did have the flu which I found amusing considering it was the middle of the summer. 

Considering she has had one confirmed case of COVID and has numerous instances of COVID symptoms odds are that I've had it to.  I don't recall really ever having the main symptoms of COVID, at least since it has been a pandemic.  I am about to go on a trip to Mexico for a week which will require a COVID test to get back on the return plane trip.  I do wonder in the back of my head if I will flag as asymptomatic but yet still positive.   

abefroman329

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 08, 2022, 07:09:37 PMTurns out I really did have the flu which I found amusing considering it was the middle of the summer.
Oh, I got the stuffing kicked out of me by a summer cold about a year ago, so I believe it.  Turns out the one thing the COVIDiots were right about was the fact that masks were weakening our immune systems.

abefroman329

Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 07:07:55 PMIn my opinion, this is a matter of semantics.  The D in COVID stands for 'disease'.  While the technical medical definition of 'disease' may include the asymptomatic carrying of a pathogen, that's not necessarily the way people use the word.  For example, Merriam-Webster defines it as 'a condition ... that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms'.  Therefore, if HB's bodily functions have not been impaired, and if he hasn't had any signs and symptoms, then it's perfectly reasonable for him to say he hasn't had a disease.  If he hasn't had a COVID test, then he doesn't know if he's had the SARS-CoV-2 virus, but I've been uncomfortable with the conflation of those two terms this whole time.
I've taken a number of COVID tests (all negative) and have never had symptoms of COVID, and I still wouldn't say "oh, I never got COVID."

Quote from: kphoger on June 08, 2022, 07:07:55 PMIt's similar to how I tell people I got sick from both the second shot and the booster.  Some people correct me by saying I didn't actually get sick–I just had symptoms.  Well, to my way of thinking, if a foreign substance was introduced into my body and I suffered ill effects as a direct result of that, then yes, it made me sick.
I mean this in the nicest way possible, but you're both wrong - you had side effects from the vaccination.  If I get a flu shot and my arm is sore, that's a side effect of the shot; it's not a medical diagnosis of...sore arm.

kphoger

Interesting.

I had heard that some clinics, if a person came in with flu-like symptoms, were testing for COVID but then, if the test was negative, sending him or her home without actually testing for the flu.  This was purported to be one reason flu cases were supposedly way down last year.

Any truth to that?
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Max Rockatansky

^^^

To be clear I was never explicitly tested for the flu, only COVID.  In theory it could have been something else.

Quote from: abefroman329 on June 08, 2022, 07:13:05 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on June 08, 2022, 07:09:37 PMTurns out I really did have the flu which I found amusing considering it was the middle of the summer.
Oh, I got the stuffing kicked out of me by a summer cold about a year ago, so I believe it.  Turns out the one thing the COVIDiots were right about was the fact that masks were weakening our immune systems.

Kind of my thought on it is that all these diseases are inevitable eventually if someone interacts with other people in any regular capacity.  In my case I only ever had a single work from home day since the beginning of the domestic run of COVID-19.  There was no way I could walk by dozens of people every day in an enclosed structure and avoid exposure to disease, masks or not.  That being the case, was there a point in worrying one or another about an outcome that I really couldn't alter? 

kphoger

Quote from: abefroman329 on June 08, 2022, 07:17:17 PM
I mean this in the nicest way possible, but you're both wrong - you had side effects from the vaccination.  If I get a flu shot and my arm is sore, that's a side effect of the shot; it's not a medical diagnosis of...sore arm.

I totally get it.  I'm just saying that most people use the word "sick" to mean there's something physically affecting their body.  My side-effects from the COVID booster shot were actually worse than my symptoms the first time I had the flu (for which I was indeed tested), so it seems strange to me to say I was sick from influenza but not sick from the COVID booster.  I understand why you would say that, but it's not the way I use the word "sick".
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.