News:

Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered from the forum database changes made in Fall 2023. Let us know if you discover anymore.

Main Menu

Roadways that are potentially overbuilt

Started by iBallasticwolf2, May 24, 2015, 08:14:53 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Roadgeekteen

We've had this discussion multiple times.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5


Flint1979

Any of Fritzowl's interstate plans in the middle of nowhere.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: Flint1979 on May 08, 2021, 07:39:23 PM
Any of Fritzowl's interstate plans in the middle of nowhere.
But they aren't built.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

sprjus4

Quote from: Flint1979 on May 08, 2021, 07:39:23 PM
Any of Fritzowl's interstate plans in the middle of nowhere.
General highway talk ≠ fictional highways

Max Rockatansky

I-70 in the San Rafael Swell.  This can be largely attributed to the corridor missing the mark in not being routed towards Salt Lake City.

Road Hog

US 69 Business in Greenville, TX. Four lanes when 2 will do after the city was bypassed.

Rothman

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 08, 2021, 08:18:21 PM
I-70 in the San Rafael Swell.  This can be largely attributed to the corridor missing the mark in not being routed towards Salt Lake City.
Pfft.  It was two lanes once upon a time and was expanded out of necessity.

Still, all that aside:

MERGE THE THREADEN!
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

webny99

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 08, 2021, 05:38:46 PM
The 401 in Toronto

Assuming this is a serious answer, I would have to disagree. It's horribly congested on a good day, especially where the collector and express lanes merge into one giant mess.

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: webny99 on May 08, 2021, 09:32:29 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 08, 2021, 05:38:46 PM
The 401 in Toronto

Assuming this is a serious answer, I would have to disagree. It's horribly congested on a good day, especially where the collector and express lanes merge into one giant mess.

It wasn't.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

Rothman

NY 328 SW of Elmira.  No need for it the four lanes with a median.

Regarding MA 116, having grown up in the area, it was a great bypass.

Come to think of it, there was a weirdo northeast bypass around Amherst proposed at one point...it used to be marked on the old D.H. Jones maps.  My parents probably still have one in their house.  I'll check next weekend when I am visiting.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

webny99

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 08, 2021, 09:33:36 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 08, 2021, 09:32:29 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 08, 2021, 05:38:46 PM
The 401 in Toronto

Assuming this is a serious answer, I would have to disagree. It's horribly congested on a good day, especially where the collector and express lanes merge into one giant mess.

It wasn't.

Darn. I should have known from the last line, but a few of the others seemed like they might be legitimate.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 08, 2021, 09:33:36 PM
Quote from: webny99 on May 08, 2021, 09:32:29 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on May 08, 2021, 05:38:46 PM
The 401 in Toronto

Assuming this is a serious answer, I would have to disagree. It's horribly congested on a good day, especially where the collector and express lanes merge into one giant mess.

It wasn't.

That said, I've been working on a lot of blogs which go into the development of the Golden State Highway (US 99) into a freeway.  It is surreal sometimes to see how those 1950s/60s designs were once world class.

Flint1979

Would I-94 be overbuilt if they added one to two lanes in the entire state of Michigan? From the state line to Benton Harbor it's six lanes, it needs another lane at least. You have Grand Rapids and Chicago/Detroit traffic all running together in that area.

Then east of I-196 it goes down to four lanes until US-131 in Kalamazoo where it gets six lanes again until the east side of K-Zoo and then back down to four lanes all the way to US-23 pretty much with I believe the exception of a few six lane stretches but not long stretches. This should be six lanes.

Then it's six lanes pretty much all the way through Metro Detroit with some eight lane stretches but this needs one to two more lanes in each direction. From US-23 to Detroit city limits it should be eight lanes, within the city of Detroit it should be ten lanes, then back down to eight lanes after Cadieux and to six lanes from 23 Mile to Port Huron. MDOT is hard at work on doing nothing about addressing some real problems in this state.

US-23 between Flint and Toledo is almost as bad as I-75 in rural areas like between Troy and Findlay, Ohio.

sprjus4

I'd say a highway like I-94 or US-23 would definitely make sense with 6 lanes throughout. Could it be seen as overbuilt sometimes? Maybe. But it would definitely be built to handle the maximum capacity during peak travel times, and still be free flowing with ample breathing room. I've mentioned it before, but Georgia I-75 and I-95 are prime examples of what all the major interstate highways in this country should look like.

SkyPesos

Quote from: sprjus4 on May 09, 2021, 12:22:57 AM
I've mentioned it before, but Georgia I-75 and I-95 are prime examples of what all the major interstate highways in this country should look like.
I used I-71 between Columbus and Cleveland as a good example of a 6 lane rural interstate, though I think the rest of I-71 should get up to that standard too. Cincinnati-Columbus have a short 6 lane section around the US 35 interchange and provisions for it on the new Jeremiah Morrow Bridge. Louisville-Cincinnati is a bit more difficult due to the terrain, but I think traffic levels and truck traffic are high enough for 6 lanes.

JREwing78

Quote from: Flint1979 on May 08, 2021, 11:20:13 PM
Would I-94 be overbuilt if they added one to two lanes in the entire state of Michigan?

Not at all, especially with the truck traffic it handles. I would prioritize Kalamazoo -> I-69 and Jackson -> US-23 in Ann Arbor for 6-laning if I was writing the checks, but even the section between Marshall and Jackson is busy.

JREwing78

Quote from: SkyPesos on February 27, 2021, 03:20:58 PM
OH 11 is a full freeway with an AADT with 6k. That may justify a divided 4 lane with at-grade intersections, but I'm questioning why ODOT spent their resources turning this into a full freeway, instead of US 23 between I-270 and US 35 (AADT 20k-30k) and the Columbus-Toledo corridor.

ODOT built this out when Youngstown and Warren were more prominent population centers. Mahoning and Trumbull counties (including Youngstown and Warren) have lost over 100,000 residents since 1970, and Ashtabula County's population levels were basically flat. ODOT's highway planning didn't anticipate the local economy going into a freefall.

Scott5114

uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Flint1979

Quote from: sprjus4 on May 09, 2021, 12:22:57 AM
I'd say a highway like I-94 or US-23 would definitely make sense with 6 lanes throughout. Could it be seen as overbuilt sometimes? Maybe. But it would definitely be built to handle the maximum capacity during peak travel times, and still be free flowing with ample breathing room. I've mentioned it before, but Georgia I-75 and I-95 are prime examples of what all the major interstate highways in this country should look like.
They added that Flex Lane north of Ann Arbor on US-23 but it's only open during peak travel times, even if it's not a peak travel hour and the highway is congested it'll still be closed. US-23 is a prime example of a freeway that is underbuilt. It does get six lanes briefly in the Ann Arbor area while it's concurrent with M-14.

andrepoiy

So some cities have had population declines, Detroit is the one that's probably most notable. Would that mean that freeways there are overbuilt, since it was built for a population that isn't as big anymore?

SkyPesos

Quote from: andrepoiy on May 09, 2021, 11:51:23 AM
So some cities have had population declines, Detroit is the one that's probably most notable. Would that mean that freeways there are overbuilt, since it was built for a population that isn't as big anymore?
I think that the freeways are more needed because of the suburbanization in rust belt metro areas, and more people commuting on the freeways. Detroit's metro population grew by 42% (not a lot compared to other areas, but it's still a growth) between 1950 and 2010 even though the city proper dropped.

I-75 in Detroit's northern suburbs have an AADT of 150k in some places on 6 lanes.

JREwing78

Based merely on traffic counts, I-75 north of the Mackinac Bridge is overbuilt, with an AADT in some sections of under 5000 vpd . It receives less traffic than US-2 west of St. Ignace, which is mostly a 2-lane roadway.  There are national defense reasons that I-75 continues on to Sault Ste. Marie, but it is among the most lightly-trafficked Interstate highways east of the Mississippi.

Flint1979

Quote from: andrepoiy on May 09, 2021, 11:51:23 AM
So some cities have had population declines, Detroit is the one that's probably most notable. Would that mean that freeways there are overbuilt, since it was built for a population that isn't as big anymore?
Detroit's metro population is still about the same as it's peak population. The city might have lost population but Oakland and Macomb counties are near their peak population. Metro Detroit has about 4 million people which is higher than when Detroit city was at its peak population. The Jeffries Freeway on the west side might feel overbuilt but it handles free flowing traffic fine.

Roadgeekteen

Let's just say that overbuilt is much better than underbuilt.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

tolbs17

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on May 09, 2021, 05:03:56 PM
Let's just say that overbuilt is much better than underbuilt.
Yes, sir.

I-295 south of I-64 could be classified as (overbuilt). I-95 was supposed to be routed on that side. Like the Varina-Enon bridge only carries about 40,000 vehicles per day so that's even enough for just 4 lanes.

And for it going through Hopewell, it carries roughly 35,000 vehicles per day! Will not need to be widened for improved for quite a while...



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.