North Houston Highway Improvement Project (project resumed March 2023)

[abqtraveler]

If you observe the news reports and actions taken, it seems that transportation policy on the left side of politics has been hijacked by the far left, with all this 'racist highways' and 'climate killer' rhetoric. This is also true in Europe, there are almost no moderate / pragmatic center-left views on transportation anymore.

I think this can be attributed to the failure of understanding their own electorate and being stuck in an ideological bubble. Parties that say they represent the working class or lower incomes don't seem to understand that those people usually rely on a car to commute to work, they typically do not work in a shiny office tower near a transit station (or from home), but much more likely in a dispersed landscape of suburban industrial or commercial sites.

You can also see they tend to have a very 1960s view of suburbs: white people commuting to work to downtown, on highways built over minority neighborhoods. Suburbs are much more diverse today, and so are the commuters.

In some places run by progressive politicians, they're even talking about tearing down some inner-city freeways without providing any alternative to disperse the traffic these freeways currently carry. Out here in Albuquerque (we're another city that has been recently hijacked by the progressive "woke" mob), they've already spent nearly a quarter-billion dollars to reduce the number of lanes on Central Avenue to accommodate a rapid bus line know as the Albuquerque Rapid Transit (ART).

An officials out here are  already talking about adding more ART routes along other major corridors within the city by eliminating lanes on already-congested highways, when the real problem is most of the recent residential development has been to the west of the Rio Grande, while most of the job growth has been to the east of the river, and there are not enough bridges across the Rio Grande to get commuters from home to work and back in a timely manner. 

Long-range planning documents show that officials out here have zero intent to construct any more bridges across the Rio Grande, nor expand the capacity of any of the existing bridges. Instead, those planning documents state officials' desire to remove existing travel lanes from some thoroughfares to accommodate dedicated bus lines. Politicians out here seem to think that they can somehow force people out of their cars and into mass transit if they eliminate lanes on our roads and make everyone's drive to work as miserable as possible. But history should tell us that mass transit out here doesn't work:  the Rail Runner Express that was touted as an alternative to widening I-25 between Albuquerque and Santa Fe carries so few people that it doesn't even pay for its own operating costs (it's actually shut down right now due to COVID-19 public health orders), and ART buses running empty down Central Avenue. 

[silverback1065]

If you observe the news reports and actions taken, it seems that transportation policy on the left side of politics has been hijacked by the far left, with all this 'racist highways' and 'climate killer' rhetoric. This is also true in Europe, there are almost no moderate / pragmatic center-left views on transportation anymore.

I think this can be attributed to the failure of understanding their own electorate and being stuck in an ideological bubble. Parties that say they represent the working class or lower incomes don't seem to understand that those people usually rely on a car to commute to work, they typically do not work in a shiny office tower near a transit station (or from home), but much more likely in a dispersed landscape of suburban industrial or commercial sites.

You can also see they tend to have a very 1960s view of suburbs: white people commuting to work to downtown, on highways built over minority neighborhoods. Suburbs are much more diverse today, and so are the commuters.

In some places run by progressive politicians, they're even talking about tearing down some inner-city freeways without providing any alternative to disperse the traffic these freeways currently carry. Out here in Albuquerque (we're another city that has been recently hijacked by the progressive "woke" mob), they've already spent nearly a quarter-billion dollars to reduce the number of lanes on Central Avenue to accommodate a rapid bus line know as the Albuquerque Rapid Transit (ART).

An officials out here are  already talking about adding more ART routes along other major corridors within the city by eliminating lanes on already-congested highways, when the real problem is most of the recent residential development has been to the west of the Rio Grande, while most of the job growth has been to the east of the river, and there are not enough bridges across the Rio Grande to get commuters from home to work and back in a timely manner. 

Long-range planning documents show that officials out here have zero intent to construct any more bridges across the Rio Grande, nor expand the capacity of any of the existing bridges. Instead, those planning documents state officials' desire to remove existing travel lanes from some thoroughfares to accommodate dedicated bus lines. Politicians out here seem to think that they can somehow force people out of their cars and into mass transit if they eliminate lanes on our roads and make everyone's drive to work as miserable as possible. But history should tell us that mass transit out here doesn't work:  the Rail Runner Express that was touted as an alternative to widening I-25 between Albuquerque and Santa Fe carries so few people that it doesn't even pay for its own operating costs (it's actually shut down right now due to COVID-19 public health orders), and ART buses running empty down Central Avenue.

The people you describe frustrate me. this is delusional thinking, they're in a fanciful bubble where everyone lives near a dense downtown like area.

[silverback1065]

So if it was a white neighborhood it would be fine. I mean this is insanity. How is this road ever supposed to get widened then?

https://apple.news/A6zuE9OFbRcuwlLjxCF1DXw

Yes. that is the logic of these lunatics.

What will likely happen is it will be approved once Biden is out of office and the parties in power change. i.e. wait 4-8 yrs.

[kernals12]

If you observe the news reports and actions taken, it seems that transportation policy on the left side of politics has been hijacked by the far left, with all this 'racist highways' and 'climate killer' rhetoric. This is also true in Europe, there are almost no moderate / pragmatic center-left views on transportation anymore.

I think this can be attributed to the failure of understanding their own electorate and being stuck in an ideological bubble. Parties that say they represent the working class or lower incomes don't seem to understand that those people usually rely on a car to commute to work, they typically do not work in a shiny office tower near a transit station (or from home), but much more likely in a dispersed landscape of suburban industrial or commercial sites.

You can also see they tend to have a very 1960s view of suburbs: white people commuting to work to downtown, on highways built over minority neighborhoods. Suburbs are much more diverse today, and so are the commuters.

In some places run by progressive politicians, they're even talking about tearing down some inner-city freeways without providing any alternative to disperse the traffic these freeways currently carry. Out here in Albuquerque (we're another city that has been recently hijacked by the progressive "woke" mob), they've already spent nearly a quarter-billion dollars to reduce the number of lanes on Central Avenue to accommodate a rapid bus line know as the Albuquerque Rapid Transit (ART).

An officials out here are  already talking about adding more ART routes along other major corridors within the city by eliminating lanes on already-congested highways, when the real problem is most of the recent residential development has been to the west of the Rio Grande, while most of the job growth has been to the east of the river, and there are not enough bridges across the Rio Grande to get commuters from home to work and back in a timely manner. 

Long-range planning documents show that officials out here have zero intent to construct any more bridges across the Rio Grande, nor expand the capacity of any of the existing bridges. Instead, those planning documents state officials' desire to remove existing travel lanes from some thoroughfares to accommodate dedicated bus lines. Politicians out here seem to think that they can somehow force people out of their cars and into mass transit if they eliminate lanes on our roads and make everyone's drive to work as miserable as possible. But history should tell us that mass transit out here doesn't work:  the Rail Runner Express that was touted as an alternative to widening I-25 between Albuquerque and Santa Fe carries so few people that it doesn't even pay for its own operating costs (it's actually shut down right now due to COVID-19 public health orders), and ART buses running empty down Central Avenue.

The people you describe frustrate me. this is delusional thinking, they're in a fanciful bubble where everyone lives near a dense downtown like area.

The issue is that the automobile and the single family dwelling represent 3 things they hate
1. Individualism
2. Independence
3. Responsibility

They want a populace of sheep dependent upon the state for housing and transportation.

[Plutonic Panda]

So if it was a white neighborhood it would be fine. I mean this is insanity. How is this road ever supposed to get widened then?

https://apple.news/A6zuE9OFbRcuwlLjxCF1DXw

Yes. that is the logic of these lunatics.

What will likely happen is it will be approved once Biden is out of office and the parties in power change. i.e. wait 4-8 yrs.

I bet we see the same shit with the 605 proposal in Los Angeles.

[silverback1065]

So if it was a white neighborhood it would be fine. I mean this is insanity. How is this road ever supposed to get widened then?

https://apple.news/A6zuE9OFbRcuwlLjxCF1DXw

Yes. that is the logic of these lunatics.

What will likely happen is it will be approved once Biden is out of office and the parties in power change. i.e. wait 4-8 yrs.

I bet we see the same shit with the 605 proposal in Los Angeles.

They tried to pull it here in Indianapolis and failed thankfully. They also proposed this stupid at grade boulevard to replace 65 and 70 downtown. Traffic studies showed 3+ hr delays caused by this. These people claim to care about others, they only care about themselves.

Pixel 5

[abqtraveler]

So if it was a white neighborhood it would be fine. I mean this is insanity. How is this road ever supposed to get widened then?

https://apple.news/A6zuE9OFbRcuwlLjxCF1DXw

Yes. that is the logic of these lunatics.

What will likely happen is it will be approved once Biden is out of office and the parties in power change. i.e. wait 4-8 yrs.

I bet we see the same shit with the 605 proposal in Los Angeles.

They tried to pull it here in Indianapolis and failed thankfully. They also proposed this stupid at grade boulevard to replace 65 and 70 downtown. Traffic studies showed 3+ hr delays caused by this. These people claim to care about others, they only care about themselves.

Pixel 5

At least in Indiana the "woke" progressive mobs haven't made much inroads, given that Indiana is a deep red state with plenty of good folks that respect American values. If somehow the progressive mobs were to flip a state like Indiana, it would be the end of America as we know it.

[kernals12]

So if it was a white neighborhood it would be fine. I mean this is insanity. How is this road ever supposed to get widened then?

https://apple.news/A6zuE9OFbRcuwlLjxCF1DXw

Yes. that is the logic of these lunatics.

What will likely happen is it will be approved once Biden is out of office and the parties in power change. i.e. wait 4-8 yrs.

I bet we see the same shit with the 605 proposal in Los Angeles.

They tried to pull it here in Indianapolis and failed thankfully. They also proposed this stupid at grade boulevard to replace 65 and 70 downtown. Traffic studies showed 3+ hr delays caused by this. These people claim to care about others, they only care about themselves.

Pixel 5

At least in Indiana the "woke" progressive mobs haven't made much inroads, given that Indiana is a deep red state with plenty of good folks that respect American values. If somehow the progressive mobs were to flip a state like Indiana, it would be the end of America as we know it.

They don't have much influence seemingly anywhere. New Jersey is a very liberal state, but they're still going ahead with a massive expansion of the Turnpike and Garden State Parkway.

The anti-car crowd may be noisy but they are a minority. Where opposition to new highways comes from is ordinary people who are worried about noise, smog, and displacement.

[silverback1065]

So if it was a white neighborhood it would be fine. I mean this is insanity. How is this road ever supposed to get widened then?

https://apple.news/A6zuE9OFbRcuwlLjxCF1DXw

Yes. that is the logic of these lunatics.

What will likely happen is it will be approved once Biden is out of office and the parties in power change. i.e. wait 4-8 yrs.

I bet we see the same shit with the 605 proposal in Los Angeles.

They tried to pull it here in Indianapolis and failed thankfully. They also proposed this stupid at grade boulevard to replace 65 and 70 downtown. Traffic studies showed 3+ hr delays caused by this. These people claim to care about others, they only care about themselves.

Pixel 5

At least in Indiana the "woke" progressive mobs haven't made much inroads, given that Indiana is a deep red state with plenty of good folks that respect American values. If somehow the progressive mobs were to flip a state like Indiana, it would be the end of America as we know it.

They don't have much influence seemingly anywhere. New Jersey is a very liberal state, but they're still going ahead with a massive expansion of the Turnpike and Garden State Parkway.

Their level of support is paper thin. Just a very loud vocal minority. Unfortunately this vocal minority has some political clout which aids In their loudness.

Pixel 5

[Wayward Memphian]

So if it was a white neighborhood it would be fine. I mean this is insanity. How is this road ever supposed to get widened then?

https://apple.news/A6zuE9OFbRcuwlLjxCF1DXw

Yes. that is the logic of these lunatics.

What will likely happen is it will be approved once Biden is out of office and the parties in power change. i.e. wait 4-8 yrs.

I bet we see the same shit with the 605 proposal in Los Angeles.

They tried to pull it here in Indianapolis and failed thankfully. They also proposed this stupid at grade boulevard to replace 65 and 70 downtown. Traffic studies showed 3+ hr delays caused by this. These people claim to care about others, they only care about themselves.

Pixel 5

At least in Indiana the "woke" progressive mobs haven't made much inroads, given that Indiana is a deep red state with plenty of good folks that respect American values. If somehow the progressive mobs were to flip a state like Indiana, it would be the end of America as we know it.

The end of America is you know is likely on it's way anyways. This nation is reaching peak incompatibility.

The only question is will it be hot. I now have met folks making their own primers to get around the shortage. Lots of used machining stuff out there being put to use in farm shops and garages.

[abqtraveler]

So if it was a white neighborhood it would be fine. I mean this is insanity. How is this road ever supposed to get widened then?

https://apple.news/A6zuE9OFbRcuwlLjxCF1DXw

Yes. that is the logic of these lunatics.

What will likely happen is it will be approved once Biden is out of office and the parties in power change. i.e. wait 4-8 yrs.

I bet we see the same shit with the 605 proposal in Los Angeles.

They tried to pull it here in Indianapolis and failed thankfully. They also proposed this stupid at grade boulevard to replace 65 and 70 downtown. Traffic studies showed 3+ hr delays caused by this. These people claim to care about others, they only care about themselves.

Pixel 5

At least in Indiana the "woke" progressive mobs haven't made much inroads, given that Indiana is a deep red state with plenty of good folks that respect American values. If somehow the progressive mobs were to flip a state like Indiana, it would be the end of America as we know it.

They don't have much influence seemingly anywhere. New Jersey is a very liberal state, but they're still going ahead with a massive expansion of the Turnpike and Garden State Parkway.

The anti-car crowd may be noisy but they are a minority. Where opposition to new highways comes from is ordinary people who are worried about noise, smog, and displacement.

And the NJTA adds a component to the equation that allows them to pursue unlimited expansions of the NJ Turnpike and the Garden State Parkway:  hush money, and lots of it.

[Wayward Memphian]

Comparing Boston's Logan airport with Houston's Hobby airport (all data via wikipedia):

Boston averages 43 inches of rain over 126 days a year
Houston averages 54 inches of rain over 103 days a year

So Houston gets more rain over fewer days; averaging approximately half an inch of rain per rain day as opposed to Boston's third of an inch of rain per rain day.  Also Boston gets a significant amount of its winter precipitation via snow instead of rain, and snow won't flood until it melts.

I would guess that would mean that Houston tunnels would be at significantly greater flooding risk than Boston's.

As part of the tunnel design, you could incorporate a system of pumps with redundant power to keep the tunnels dry even when the power goes out. Add to that a series of watertight bulkheads (remotely operated, also on redundant power) to isolate any flooding that does occur to keep the entire system from being flooded.

That all sounds good till you get the price tag and then nearly double that cause...gubmint.

[Rothman]

So if it was a white neighborhood it would be fine. I mean this is insanity. How is this road ever supposed to get widened then?

https://apple.news/A6zuE9OFbRcuwlLjxCF1DXw

Yes. that is the logic of these lunatics.

What will likely happen is it will be approved once Biden is out of office and the parties in power change. i.e. wait 4-8 yrs.

I bet we see the same shit with the 605 proposal in Los Angeles.

They tried to pull it here in Indianapolis and failed thankfully. They also proposed this stupid at grade boulevard to replace 65 and 70 downtown. Traffic studies showed 3+ hr delays caused by this. These people claim to care about others, they only care about themselves.

Pixel 5

At least in Indiana the "woke" progressive mobs haven't made much inroads, given that Indiana is a deep red state with plenty of good folks that respect American values. If somehow the progressive mobs were to flip a state like Indiana, it would be the end of America as we know it.

Conservatives don't have a monopoly on American values.

[silverback1065]

So if it was a white neighborhood it would be fine. I mean this is insanity. How is this road ever supposed to get widened then?

https://apple.news/A6zuE9OFbRcuwlLjxCF1DXw

Yes. that is the logic of these lunatics.

What will likely happen is it will be approved once Biden is out of office and the parties in power change. i.e. wait 4-8 yrs.

I bet we see the same shit with the 605 proposal in Los Angeles.

They tried to pull it here in Indianapolis and failed thankfully. They also proposed this stupid at grade boulevard to replace 65 and 70 downtown. Traffic studies showed 3+ hr delays caused by this. These people claim to care about others, they only care about themselves.

Pixel 5

At least in Indiana the "woke" progressive mobs haven't made much inroads, given that Indiana is a deep red state with plenty of good folks that respect American values. If somehow the progressive mobs were to flip a state like Indiana, it would be the end of America as we know it.

Conservatives don't have a monopoly on American values.

I never said that and I'm not even conservative

Pixel 5

[Rothman]

So if it was a white neighborhood it would be fine. I mean this is insanity. How is this road ever supposed to get widened then?

https://apple.news/A6zuE9OFbRcuwlLjxCF1DXw

Yes. that is the logic of these lunatics.

What will likely happen is it will be approved once Biden is out of office and the parties in power change. i.e. wait 4-8 yrs.

I bet we see the same shit with the 605 proposal in Los Angeles.

They tried to pull it here in Indianapolis and failed thankfully. They also proposed this stupid at grade boulevard to replace 65 and 70 downtown. Traffic studies showed 3+ hr delays caused by this. These people claim to care about others, they only care about themselves.

Pixel 5

At least in Indiana the "woke" progressive mobs haven't made much inroads, given that Indiana is a deep red state with plenty of good folks that respect American values. If somehow the progressive mobs were to flip a state like Indiana, it would be the end of America as we know it.

Conservatives don't have a monopoly on American values.

I never said that and I'm not even conservative

Pixel 5

I didn't say you did.

[kernals12]

Well, this thread is definitely going to get locked

[silverback1065]

Probably. I'm done talking politics. Back to road stuff

Pixel 5

[Plutonic Panda]

Well, this thread is definitely going to get locked

There's a few comments that borderline discussing politics but in this case how do you get around discussing politics with this? This project is becoming a political talking point and its future is at stake because of it. It's a massive project and critical to Houston which is a major city so if this thread was locked how would it be discussed?

I personally was thinking about it when I posted it and thought about not posting it but considering how connected it is to the project I went ahead and did.

[silverback1065]

Well, this thread is definitely going to get locked

There's a few comments that borderline discussing politics but in this case how do you get around discussing politics with this? This project is becoming a political talking point and its future is at stake because of it. It's a massive project and critical to Houston which is a major city so if this thread was locked how would it be discussed?

I personally was thinking about it when I posted it and thought about not posting it but considering how connected it is to the project I went ahead and did.

I agree. It's not possible to avoid politics with this. I just don't want to start angry flamewar arguments so I tread lightly.

Pixel 5

[Plutonic Panda]

Well, this thread is definitely going to get locked

There's a few comments that borderline discussing politics but in this case how do you get around discussing politics with this? This project is becoming a political talking point and its future is at stake because of it. It's a massive project and critical to Houston which is a major city so if this thread was locked how would it be discussed?

I personally was thinking about it when I posted it and thought about not posting it but considering how connected it is to the project I went ahead and did.

I agree. It's not possible to avoid politics with this. I just don't want to start angry flamewar arguments so I tread lightly.

Pixel 5

Right and I doubt unfortunately this will be the only project that sees this going forward. I know in the past there was likely a partisan divide to some extent of certain infrastructure being and where but today is has been taken to the extreme IMO almost to the point where someone will label you being a member of a certain group/party simply for vocalizing support for a particular project. It's happened to me multiple times on BOTH sides.

[bwana39]

So if it was a white neighborhood it would be fine. I mean this is insanity. How is this road ever supposed to get widened then?

https://apple.news/A6zuE9OFbRcuwlLjxCF1DXw

Yes. that is the logic of these lunatics.

What will likely happen is it will be approved once Biden is out of office and the parties in power change. i.e. wait 4-8 yrs.

I bet we see the same shit with the 605 proposal in Los Angeles.

They tried to pull it here in Indianapolis and failed thankfully. They also proposed this stupid at grade boulevard to replace 65 and 70 downtown. Traffic studies showed 3+ hr delays caused by this. These people claim to care about others, they only care about themselves.

Pixel 5

At least in Indiana the "woke" progressive mobs haven't made much inroads, given that Indiana is a deep red state with plenty of good folks that respect American values. If somehow the progressive mobs were to flip a state like Indiana, it would be the end of America as we know it.

Texas is a Deep Red STATE Houston on the other hand is not.

[Bobby5280]

I think TX DOT should take the billions of dollars they proposed to spend improving the highways in downtown Houston and spend it elsewhere in the state on more do-able projects. They could convert US-287 from Fort Worth to Amarillo to 100% Interstate quality and probably still have plenty of money left over. The I-69 system has hundreds of miles worth of road in Texas waiting to get built/upgraded. Same goes for I-14.

I say let the New Urbanist idiots have their way with major city downtown districts. They're obviously looking at the situation through rose colored glasses and ignoring some important historical trends. Look what happened in the DFW metroplex more than 30 years ago, and other areas like North Virginia. Lots of firms decided it was not necessary to be located in a downtown office tower. It was too expensive and too much of a PITA for employees to commute downtown. So they relocated and decentralized. They started building business parks out in the suburbs. JCPenney's HQ in Plano was an important blip in that trend. I remember when it first opened; there was hardly anything else nearby, just empty grassland. Now it's all built over with development.

This anti-roads crap the New Urbanists are promoting will do even more to drive businesses out of downtown areas. Many downtown districts are already in bubble economies due to the hatefully extreme prices of housing and office space. It's economically NOT sustainable. At some point it's all going to crash and those downtown areas will fall into deep decline.

And let's not forget about what ever faster broadband Internet is doing to change business. Firms don't even have to be located in a major city; they can move to locations with much lower costs of living and doing business. They can have more employees working remotely. This isn't 100% a good thing since it creates another angle for outsourcing jobs overseas. But that has already been happening in a big way for a long time.

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^ the problem with your proposal is it makes tens of not hundreds of thousands of people suffer due to the will of the few.

[kernals12]

I think TX DOT should take the billions of dollars they proposed to spend improving the highways in downtown Houston and spend it elsewhere in the state on more do-able projects. They could convert US-287 from Fort Worth to Amarillo to 100% Interstate quality and probably still have plenty of money left over. The I-69 system has hundreds of miles worth of road in Texas waiting to get built/upgraded. Same goes for I-14.

I say let the New Urbanist idiots have their way with major city downtown districts. They're obviously looking at the situation through rose colored glasses and ignoring some important historical trends. Look what happened in the DFW metroplex more than 30 years ago, and other areas like North Virginia. Lots of firms decided it was not necessary to be located in a downtown office tower. It was too expensive and too much of a PITA for employees to commute downtown. So they relocated and decentralized. They started building business parks out in the suburbs. JCPenney's HQ in Plano was an important blip in that trend. I remember when it first opened; there was hardly anything else nearby, just empty grassland. Now it's all built over with development.

This anti-roads crap the New Urbanists are promoting will do even more to drive businesses out of downtown areas. Many downtown districts are already in bubble economies due to the hatefully extreme prices of housing and office space. It's economically NOT sustainable. At some point it's all going to crash and those downtown areas will fall into deep decline.

And let's not forget about what ever faster broadband Internet is doing to change business. Firms don't even have to be located in a major city; they can move to locations with much lower costs of living and doing business. They can have more employees working remotely. This isn't 100% a good thing since it creates another angle for outsourcing jobs overseas. But that has already been happening in a big way for a long time.

But now the new urbanists are trying to bring all the congestion and crowding of downtown to the suburbs. They want to turn Tysons Corner, VA into a 2nd Arlington

[sprjus4]

^

It effectively is already becoming that.