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North Houston Highway Improvement Project (project resumed March 2023)

Started by MaxConcrete, April 22, 2015, 09:19:38 PM

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J N Winkler

Quote from: TheBox on March 05, 2023, 10:58:14 AMKinda off-topic, but is it just me or is North Fwy (I-45) inside the SHT/Beltway 8 is showing it's age compared to Katy Freeway (I-10), Northwest Freeway (US-290), and even both Southwest and Eastex Freeways (US-59/I-69)?  Especially for a major freeway that connects 2 big cities in Texas.

The newly rebuilt Katy and Northwest freeways may be an unfair comparison yes (and were on the same level before they were both rebuilt the past two decades, if not worse), but even Southwest and Eastex Freeways ages much better than North Freeway does when neither of those two US-59/I-69 freeways connect to any city that's on the level of Dallas, San Antonio, nor Austin (the RGV, Corpus Christi, Longview-Marshall look like small towns in comparison)

The part of the Southwest Freeway just west of downtown was extensively rebuilt in the early 2000's.  I have a copy of the construction plans set, which runs to over 2000 sheets; the project was advertised soon after TxDOT started putting plans online.  The NBI shows bridges on the Eastex Freeway with reconstruction dates in the 1990's.

In contradistinction, while bridges on the North Freeway do also show reconstruction dates in the 1990's, the geometric design has been updated far less extensively.  The mainlanes do not have continuous left shoulders, unlike the nearby Eastex, and the I-45/I-610 interchange is still in its 1960's configuration with left exits (the NHHIP proposes to replace it with a true Maltese cross stack).
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini


Anthony_JK

I'd say that even the North Freeway doesn't compare to the East and Baytown East freeways when it comes to age....especially that ancient interchange with Spur 330/Crosby-Lynchburg Road where there is no direct access from I-10 eastbound to south Spur 330/Decker Drive and vice versa. That segment could use some real modernization as well, especially with ultimate construction of the NE quadrant of the Grand Parkway and the Ship Channel bridge on I-610.

Thegeet

Quote from: TheBox on March 05, 2023, 10:58:14 AM
Kinda off-topic, but is it just me or is North Fwy (I-45) inside the SHT/Beltway 8 is showing it's age compared to Katy Freeway (I-10), Northwest Freeway (US-290), and even both Southwest and Eastex Freeways (US-59/I-69)?
Especially for a major freeway that connects 2 big cities in Texas

the newly rebuilt Katy and Northwest freeways may be an unfair comparison yes (and were on the same level before they were both rebuilt the past two decades, if not worse), but even Southwest and Eastex Freeways ages much better than North Freeway does when neither of those tw US-59/I-69 freeways connect to any city that's on the level of Dallas, San Antonio, nor Austin (the RGV, Corpus Christi, Longview-Marshall look like small towns in comparison)

Just compare North Fwy to the Northline Commons and you'll see my point

EDIT: not to mention, kinda thin in comparison
Yeah, I agree. Apart from that, some of the bridges look extremely gross. Yuck.

bwana39

Quote from: Anthony_JK on March 06, 2023, 12:52:28 AM
I'd say that even the North Freeway doesn't compare to the East and Baytown East freeways when it comes to age....especially that ancient interchange with Spur 330/Crosby-Lynchburg Road where there is no direct access from I-10 eastbound to south Spur 330/Decker Drive and vice versa. That segment could use some real modernization as well, especially with ultimate construction of the NE quadrant of the Grand Parkway and the Ship Channel bridge on I-610.

There is an example much like this in D-FW. Eastbound SH-183 has no direct access to NB I-35E.
SS-557 ("To US-80") outside of Terrell neither I-20 nor SS-557 EB has direct access to the WB lanes of the other.

Generally when traffic rarely if ever transitions in what amounts to a U-turn situation. TxDOT generally lets a non-freeway connection do the job.
Let's build what we need as economically as possible.


kernals12


MaxConcrete

The FHWA has signed the agreement to allow the project to proceed, fully lifting the project hold effective immediately.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/i-45-rebuild-txdot-houston-pause-lifted-17822603.php

It appears that no changes to the design and lane count are included in the agreement, although TxDOT has agreed to study possible reductions in right-of-way acquisition. Opportunities for ROW reduction are very limited. Most TxDOT obligations are related to housing replacement and relocation, flood control and pedestrian amenities.

This is good news. In the near term we will probably see the right-of-way acquisition move at full speed. The section of I-69 between Spur 527 and SH 288 is slated to receive bids in June 2024. The next project is slated for 2027. The project hold was 2 years, and the opposition effort has caused a much longer delay to the project. So large-scale construction is still many years in the future.

QuoteThe Federal Highway Administration and Texas Department of Transportation announced Tuesday morning they had reached an agreement, similar to those TxDOT reached with Harris County and Houston in December, outlining various commitments related to the planned $9.7 billion rebuild of I-45 from downtown Houston north to Beltway 8. The agreement immediately lifts the federal pause placed on the project on March 8, 2021, and resolves the audit conducted by federal officials related to TxDOT's adherence to federal environmental rules.

www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

Chris

https://highways.dot.gov/newsroom/fhwa-and-txdot-sign-agreement-allow-i-45-north-houston-highway-improvement-project-move

Here's the FHWA news release.

The actions in the VRA will be performed in addition to and/or in compliance with the mitigation actions already committed to by TxDOT, as contained within the Record of Decision (ROD), including:

* Twice Annual Public Meetings through Design and Construction;
* Mitigating Displacements, Relocations, Housing, and Other Community Impacts;
* Drainage Improvements to Reduce Flooding;
* Parks, Open Space, Trails, Pedestrian and Bicycle Facilities;
* Community Access During Construction;
* Highway "Footprint"  Reduction;
* Structural Highway Caps;
* Air Quality Mitigation; and
* Meaningful Access for Persons with Limited English Proficiency (LEP).


Bobby5280

Quote from: kernals12Good to see that the urbanists have not yet completely taken over.

It seems the New Urbanists are creating a good bit of backlash.

Over in Europe there is a growing amount of political back-tracking in response to extremely angry public reactions over efforts to create "15 Minute Cities." That effort is New Urbanism pushed to another extreme. They're trying to completely ban automobiles in city centers. The efforts have created a logistical mess for everything ranging from construction projects to people to just trying to get to work.

I can speak from experience what a pain in the ass it is to haul a couple suitcases on a crowded subway train after landing at JFK Airport. It's essential to travel light when taking mass transit, but not everyone can do that. Many of us take for granted being able to haul a lot of things in our personal vehicles.

The "15 Minute City" ideology conveniently ignores the fact city centers serve a lot more purposes that just providing a place where upper class douches can live in luxury apartments. Many city center businesses rely heavily on customer traffic coming in from the suburbs and points beyond. I like visiting spots in downtown Oklahoma City; it's fairly easy to get in and out via automobile. And there is a decent amount of free or cheap parking. If I wanted to visit Bricktown but had to park clear out in Newcastle and take a bus the rest of the way into downtown I wouldn't bother visiting downtown OKC at all.

Chris

15 minute cities are just fantasy. One that the media embraced, without checking how realistic this is.

Paris was the first to come up with this fantasy, but only 12% of Parisians (those living in the municipality, i.e. the core city) actually commute to work in 15 minutes or less. The concept is completely out of touch with reality.

Not to mention in Houston. Although interestingly, the 2019 mean journey to work in Harris County was 29 minutes. In Paris (the city core), 55% of commuters have a journey to work of more than 30 minutes.

kernals12

Quote from: Chris on March 07, 2023, 04:18:22 PM
15 minute cities are just fantasy. One that the media embraced, without checking how realistic this is.

Paris was the first to come up with this fantasy, but only 12% of Parisians (those living in the municipality, i.e. the core city) actually commute to work in 15 minutes or less. The concept is completely out of touch with reality.

Not to mention in Houston. Although interestingly, the 2019 mean journey to work in Harris County was 29 minutes. In Paris (the city core), 55% of commuters have a journey to work of more than 30 minutes.

Also, if you're never going to venture more than 15 minutes from your house, why do you need to live in Houston? You might as well live in Johnson City.

Bobby5280

Having a short commute is one of the reasons why I live in Lawton. It's little more than a 5 minute drive from my house to my workplace. New York City has lots of things to see and do, but after living there for 5 years I was sick of it and couldn't wait to leave. I sure don't miss those commutes eating 2-3 hours my life Monday-Friday.

I'm suspicious of the people selling the "New Urbanism" thing. My impression is the lawmakers and other proponents are upper income elites who don't have to live the daily grind of riding city buses and subways. I can recall my days of living in NYC and how it was a status symbol of sorts for people to use a car service or at least take a cab from place to place rather than ride a bus or subway train. I certainly don't picture any of those elites freezing their asses off standing at a bus stop.

The Ghostbuster

I'm no fan of New Urbanism either (there is plenty of it here in Madison). I see it as trying to turn every neighborhood it is built in into "Manhattan". The New York City one that is.

bluecountry

Quote from: kernals12 on March 07, 2023, 06:40:17 PM
Quote from: Chris on March 07, 2023, 04:18:22 PM
15 minute cities are just fantasy. One that the media embraced, without checking how realistic this is.

Paris was the first to come up with this fantasy, but only 12% of Parisians (those living in the municipality, i.e. the core city) actually commute to work in 15 minutes or less. The concept is completely out of touch with reality.

Not to mention in Houston. Although interestingly, the 2019 mean journey to work in Harris County was 29 minutes. In Paris (the city core), 55% of commuters have a journey to work of more than 30 minutes.

Also, if you're never going to venture more than 15 minutes from your house, why do you need to live in Houston? You might as well live in Johnson City.
No actually the point is that everything you need is within a 15 minute walk from your house so you do not need to use a car regulate.
As someone who lived in the UES of NYC, I had a car, and used it for out of town/weekend trips not M-F and it was great.
So no, the 15 minute is not some conspiracy.

In any event, I am firm believer in stop I-45 UNLESS the agree to cap the highway.
IMO, highways in the urban dense core should only be built if they can be tunneled or cut/covered or capped like I-93 in Boston.
So from what I see, this is a horrible and ugly plan that will continue to make Houston a laughable 'city' compared to real cities.

sprjus4

Quote from: bluecountry on March 08, 2023, 08:48:25 PM
In any event, I am firm believer in stop I-45 UNLESS the agree to cap the highway.
IMO, highways in the urban dense core should only be built if they can be tunneled or cut/covered or capped like I-93 in Boston.
So from what I see, this is a horrible and ugly plan that will continue to make Houston a laughable 'city' compared to real cities.
Unfortunately for you, looks like the current plan is a go.

The highway expansion will help to re-route I-45 and allow the substandard and narrow viaduct on the west side of Downtown to be demolished.

I imagine upon completion, traffic flow around the central core on the interstates will generally be smoother, and the highways will be more modern and safe.

Bobby5280

It's pie in the sky dreaming to think every urban freeway can be dug into a trench and capped. The Big Dig in Boston cost billions of dollars yet the tunnels aren't very long. They had all sorts of problems too with water seeping through the tunnel walls.

Trying to do cut and cover tunnels around downtown Houston would run into the same problems. Considering the fact Houston is far more prone to tropical storm strikes than Boston it's likely such cut-and-cover highway tunnels would flood.

It's ridiculous to build attractions such as Minute Maid Park in the downtown area yet expect the massive crowds to just ride a city bus or some nonsense. Houston already has multiple skyscraper districts in various parts of the metro. That's a reaction to workers moving farther and farther out from costly city centers that are too complicated and time-draining to visit. The New Urbanism ideology doesn't stop to consider how much time it actually takes to ride a bus or train. The ideology sure as hell doesn't consider the obscene extreme prices of housing in that Utopian urban center.

DJStephens

Quote from: Bobby5280 on March 09, 2023, 11:33:09 AM
It's pie in the sky dreaming to think every urban freeway can be dug into a trench and capped. The Big Dig in Boston cost billions of dollars yet the tunnels aren't very long. They had all sorts of problems too with water seeping through the tunnel walls.
The total cost of the "big dig" was close to $22 Billion, as recalled.   Over the close to fifteen years of the project.  The original Artery, had it's southern section already tunneled, via cut and cover method, when it was actually discovered how atrocious the elevated section (circa '50) was going to turn out.  But it never had enough capacity, only 3 x 3.   The "new" cut and cover Artery doesn't have enough capacity, either, the third Harbor crossing to the Airport "saves" it to an extent.  It really should have been 5 x 5 in the main downtown section.   
Pork, grafts, and corruption plagued the "big dig" project, and while it was finally completed, it was multiple times more expensive, than if it had been done two decades before, in conjunction with, or immediately after hypothetical Inner Belt construction.   The single most glaring episode, was the falling of a concrete ceiling tile, that fell and killed a motorist in one of the "new" tunnels.  Turned out non galvanized rod had been used to hold the panels in place, instead of correct treated hardware elements for the enviroment.   

Chris

The Boston Big Dig cost seems like a bit of financial voodoo, the Wikipedia page about the project is also cluttered with figures, comparing 1982 dollars to 2007 dollars, with an 'as of 2020', and 'to 2038 with interest' figures put in as well. As if it is an attempt to get the highest score possible. This makes it kind of difficult to compare the Big Dig actual construction cost to other urban highway tunnel projects, such as M-30 in Madrid, A2 in Maastricht, Netherlands or A86 Duplex in Paris.

However it seems that putting urban freeways in a trench is an unfavorable idea in Houston due to flooding. They have planned to raise I-10 west of I-45 for that reason.

abqtraveler

Quote from: Chris on March 09, 2023, 02:43:27 PM
The Boston Big Dig cost seems like a bit of financial voodoo, the Wikipedia page about the project is also cluttered with figures, comparing 1982 dollars to 2007 dollars, with an 'as of 2020', and 'to 2038 with interest' figures put in as well. As if it is an attempt to get the highest score possible. This makes it kind of difficult to compare the Big Dig actual construction cost to other urban highway tunnel projects, such as M-30 in Madrid, A2 in Maastricht, Netherlands or A86 Duplex in Paris.

However it seems that putting urban freeways in a trench is an unfavorable idea in Houston due to flooding. They have planned to raise I-10 west of I-45 for that reason.
You can mitigate the flooding issues if you properly design the tunnels to include a system of pumps and bulkhead doors that automatically activate when the rain rate exceeds a given threshold for a specified period of time.
2-d Interstates traveled:  4, 5, 8, 10, 15, 20, 24, 25, 27, 29, 35, 39, 40, 41, 43, 45, 49, 55, 57, 64, 65, 66, 69, 70, 71, 72, 74, 75, 76(E), 77, 78, 81, 83, 84(W), 85, 87(N), 89, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95

2-d Interstates Clinched:  12, 22, 30, 37, 44, 59, 80, 84(E), 86(E), 238, H1, H2, H3, H201

Bobby5280

I can just imagine how some massive bulkhead doors would work at the openings of freeway tunnels. Some clown looks up from his phone to see a tunnel door 1 second before he smashes into it.

Rothman

Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

abqtraveler

Quote from: Bobby5280 on March 09, 2023, 03:42:38 PM
I can just imagine how some massive bulkhead doors would work at the openings of freeway tunnels. Some clown looks up from his phone to see a tunnel door 1 second before he smashes into it.
There would have to be some advanced signage with lights and closure gates to compel motorists to exit the freeway when the bulkhead doors are closed.

Alternatively, you could build I-45 at grade level, then cover it in a way that allows for development and park space to be built directly over the highway. That would reduce the amount of supporting infrastructure needed to minimize the flooding concern.
2-d Interstates traveled:  4, 5, 8, 10, 15, 20, 24, 25, 27, 29, 35, 39, 40, 41, 43, 45, 49, 55, 57, 64, 65, 66, 69, 70, 71, 72, 74, 75, 76(E), 77, 78, 81, 83, 84(W), 85, 87(N), 89, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95

2-d Interstates Clinched:  12, 22, 30, 37, 44, 59, 80, 84(E), 86(E), 238, H1, H2, H3, H201

Plutonic Panda

They couldn't justify(in their mind) tunnels in downtown Austin; arguably the best places in the entire state that makes sense for them. There's zero chance tunnels are built here. We the approval just get this built while we can.

Max, do you know if there's any changes to the timeline? I would imagine it's been updated or should be soon.

MaxConcrete

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on March 09, 2023, 08:34:03 PM
Max, do you know if there's any changes to the timeline? I would imagine it's been updated or should be soon.

No new timeline has been released. There are multiple issues to be resolved, see https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/i45-widening-deal-txdot-steps-17711664.php

I don't think a schedule can be made until agreements are reached for all the details.
As of now, two projects are scheduled
1. I-69 between Spur 527 and SH 288, $493 million, listed for bids in June 2024.
2. Interchange at I-10 and I-45 on the northwest side of downtown, around $1 billion, listed for 2027

No other work is scheduled, but most work is listed for the 2030s.

If agreements on oustanding issues can be reached, I think we could see a speedup and possibly building each of the three sections as single jobs, rather then piecemeal over long periods of time. Houston will get a new mayor next year. A supportive mayor will likely speed up the process, and an opposition-oriented mayor could cause more delays and other project difficulties.
www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

Anthony_JK

There are below-grade trenched sections of I-69/US 59 just to the west of the South Freeway interchange. Not sure if they flood in heavy rain or hurricane conditions....but then again, no one needs to be out in the middle of a landfalling Hurricane Ike in the first place.

Two sections of the NHIP are scheduled to be ultimately capped: the segment of I-69/US 59/relocated I-45 adjacent to Minute Maid Park, and a segment of I-45 just north of the divergence of I-10 west heading towards the Katy Freeway. The city would have to find donors willing to pay for the caps, since that would not be considered "transportation needs" that would qualify for Fed-state interstate funding; perhaps the recent grant H-GAC received could be a down payment on that.

Also, the realignment of I-10 and relocated I-45 east of the Allen Elevated section would be trenched as well.

From what I have seen, they do have mitigation measures set to deal with possible flooding (natural swales, retention ponds, relocation of Buffalo Bayou, etc.

I still say that they should have kept and improved the Allen Elevated section instead of rerouting I-45 and saved a ton of money and time. But, it is what it is. I'm just relieved that the project is somewhat back on track....for now.



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