As I mentioned in the "Guess the Speed Limit Challenge", there's something really strange and frustrating about the speed limits in Monroe County, NY, particularly in the eastern part of the county.
Seemingly, north/south roads west of NY 250 CANNOT be posted higher than 35 mph, no matter the quality of the road. And yet, east/west roads can be posted 40 or even 45 mph no problem, despite being of equal or sometimes even lesser quality.
Take a look at the following. What kind of bizarro universe is this, where...
This can be 40 mph (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.182146,-77.4436886,3a,43.1y,272.76h,88.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sd-xY-uPQcdOu17bvx5dlYw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1), but this has to be 35 mph (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1818113,-77.4434345,3a,43.6y,178.56h,87.39t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soLOF6RDqm99nNichyyOJJw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1)?
This can be 45 mph (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1537769,-77.4698358,3a,50.5y,37.04h,87.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szONVjsiFjRxPmfMV_rkVHA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1), but this has to be 35 mph (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1531299,-77.4753118,3a,46.1y,186.61h,83.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLuOzvc5Mov848oGtV0n7tQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1)?
This can be 40 mph (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1823542,-77.4742971,3a,45.2y,94.6h,85.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sXlYqR2hK_D8p-s-Z2X679A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1), but this has to be 35 mph (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1827292,-77.4747409,3a,40.7y,351.28h,88.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDssJwS5ub1cFBTmD0d09XQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1)?
This can be 40 mph (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1860456,-77.4626348,3a,23y,237.45h,84.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbZnib0lrNrbAxSZN-hXmnA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1), but this has to be 35 mph (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1953524,-77.4431601,3a,44.2y,184.31h,87.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7ilKKiVa49tmvtOCMHzJvg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1)?
This can be 40 mph (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2041139,-77.4834228,3a,17.1y,81.59h,88.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZclo30c7GPl8BlH4e2fEPg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) but this has to be 30 mph (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.190654,-77.5045479,3a,17.8y,335.42h,87.94t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfdGJHvrGsXx32Btk0vzoqg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1)?
This can be 40 mph (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2303917,-77.4762688,3a,46.1y,269.64h,80.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWzU9yO1FEHVeUZKbzilxGw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) but this has to be 35 mph (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2270801,-77.4758918,3a,75y,349.98h,75.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2Zj_3OvB8LYr5HGxluXLrA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1)?
This can be 40 mph (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2308027,-77.4469764,3a,24.4y,269.53h,85.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqozMLDrO6eRokQsiKBGGOg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1), but this has to be 35 mph (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2305465,-77.4467418,3a,20.7y,178.03h,84.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTno26aIWW1r5zJM5cEtCIg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1)?
I could go on and on, but you get the idea: Every one of these examples has something in common, and that is that the E/W road has the higher limit, while the N/S one is stuck at 35 mph (or in the one case, 30 mph). The only thing I can figure is that maybe E/W roads are somehow deemed more important commuter routes because they collect traffic heading to/from the city. In any case, it's bizarre and frustrating, especially because I have a reverse commute and tend to use the N/S routes more frequently, and many of said routes could easily be 45 mph if not 55 mph.
So, with that rant out of my system, what are some other examples of where two roads close together (within 5 miles) have different speed limits, but it's really impossible to justify one being lower than the other, when it should be the same if not higher?
Here's two routes near West Columbia, TX near me that I'm baffled by:
FM-1301, 2-lane road, no shoulders, 65 mph speed limit: (https://www.google.com/maps/@29.1620051,-95.7853517,3a,75y,109.63h,87.64t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s6Lt_J27g7ga_SoofVpTl-w!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D6Lt_J27g7ga_SoofVpTl-w%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D264.3911%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i3328!8i1664)
TX-35, 4-lane expressway, ideal shoulders, 60 mph speed limit: (https://www.google.com/maps/@29.1430073,-95.6288277,3a,25.7y,92.65h,89.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slLN2qM-eiZXq5FIjzmq33Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)
To be fair, TX-35 is a lot busier than FM-1301, but 35 right there could easily handle 70.
Why do these threads need to be "rants?"
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 26, 2021, 07:19:55 PM
Why do these threads need to be "rants?"
Well, what would you call it if not a rant?
I actually figured I was doing myself and the audience a
favor by just acknowledging up front that it is, indeed, a rant. I guess I just can't win.
Quote from: webny99 on August 26, 2021, 07:23:42 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 26, 2021, 07:19:55 PM
Why do these threads need to be "rants?"
Well, what would you call it if not a rant?
I actually figured I was doing myself and the audience a favor by just acknowledging up front that it is, indeed, a rant. I guess I just can't win.
Just a normal post with a detailed subject matter? It just seems like that a lot of people titling threads as "rants" lately and it seemed kind of odd.
Entirety of Florida Turnpike Mainline (should be 75 between I-95 and the Homestead Extension, 80 between the Homestead Extension and I-595 and between FL 417 and FL 50, and 85 the remainder of the way)
I-75 between Florida Turnpike Mainline and I-475 Macon bypass (should be 80)
I-475 Macon bypass (should be 75)
I-75 north of I-475 Macon bypass where only 70, as well as many other Florida, Georgia, and Tennessee Interstates and toll roads where only 70 (should be 75)
New Jersey Turnpike south of I-287 (should be 75)
US 45 and US 45 BYP from Ashport Rd to US 45 E in Madison County, TN (should be 60)
Old Hickory Blvd in Jackson, TN (signed at 30 mph, should be 40)
TN 22 in Adamsville where 30 and Clarksburg and Parker's Crossroads where 40 (should be 50, Adamsville has <3,000, Clarksburg has <1,000, and Parker's Crossroads <500 population)
US 412 where 55 between Lexington, TN and Chesterfield, TN (should be 65)
All of the Ontario 400 series and Quebec Autoroutes (Seriously, 100 km / h or 62 mph? Should be at least 120 km / h or 75 mph)
Most of the artificial 60 and 65 zones in Indiana. Most divided highways can handle 65-70 and rural non-interstate freeways can easily handle 70.
Quote from: I-55 on August 26, 2021, 08:47:18 PM
Most of the artificial 60 and 65 zones in Indiana. Most divided highways can handle 65-70 and rural non-interstate freeways can easily handle 70.
I can concur with this, having driven on US 30 between Warsaw and Ft. Wayne.
^ While I agree with the points of underposted speed limits on interstate highways, I don't think that's the purpose of this thread.
It's to identify two similar routes that may have separate speed limits, where one could / should be higher than the other but isn't, etc.
[Insert something about NY 198 being posted below almost every other freeway here]
Quote from: SkyPesos on August 26, 2021, 09:21:44 PM
[Insert something about NY 198 being posted below almost every other freeway here]
I know it's been a talking point, but I didn't realize the
entire route is 30 mph. :-o
The funniest thing is
this sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9313587,-78.8940374,3a,43.1y,215.58h,97.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfilEXrEBP2WcdIPSK0aFSQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1), which clearly used to say "Freeway Ends" and they just put a NY 198 shield over it as if to somehow deny that it's a freeway... (and as if you're somehow going to
reduce speed from 30 mph to get on I-190!)
Most any two lane rural road in Illinois only being 55 mph.
Quote from: ChiMilNet on August 27, 2021, 09:48:10 AM
Most any two lane rural road in Illinois only being 55 mph.
IL, WI, and IA need to get on board with MN and MI in this regard, although are there any two-lane roads in the LP posted at 65?
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 27, 2021, 05:24:19 PM
Quote from: ChiMilNet on August 27, 2021, 09:48:10 AM
Most any two lane rural road in Illinois only being 55 mph.
IL, WI, and IA need to get on board with MN and MI in this regard, although are there any two-lane roads in the LP posted at 65?
When I lived in southern Illinois, I drove a delivery route that typically ranged from 250 to 350 miles per day. I got to know the two-lane roads south of roughly US-50 in that part of the state
really well during that time. In my experience, traffic east of I-57 tended to be just fine with the speed limit: I typically drove about 63 mph, I ended up passing a lot of vehicles at that speed, and hardly anyone ended up passing me. In contrast, traffic west of US-51 tended to drive well over the speed limit: going 68 to 70 mph would make me about average.
Quote from: webny99 on August 26, 2021, 06:51:12 PM
Every one of these examples has something in common, and that is that the E/W road has the higher limit, while the N/S one is stuck at 35 mph (or in the one case, 30 mph). The only thing I can figure is that maybe E/W roads are somehow deemed more important commuter routes because they collect traffic heading to/from the city.
Or maybe it helps with traffic signal synchronization? Is it the case with different speed limits N/S vs. E/W that a decent amount of traffic can get through each signal and also that motorists aren't stopped at each one? I may be grabbing at straws, but I wonder if at least in some situations -- certainly not all -- this might be the reason.
Quote from: Daniel Fiddler on August 26, 2021, 09:04:14 PM
Quote from: I-55 on August 26, 2021, 08:47:18 PM
Most of the artificial 60 and 65 zones in Indiana. Most divided highways can handle 65-70 and rural non-interstate freeways can easily handle 70.
I can concur with this, having driven on US 30 between Warsaw and Ft. Wayne.
I drive this route weekly and 70 is already the average speed for traffic.....outside of Columbia City where you will get a ticket for going 3 over. (45/50 limit)
The entire Kansas City, MO Downtown Loop should be 50 or 55 MPH instead of 45. The freeway portions of US 71 south of downtown KCMO should be 60 or 65 instead of 55. And the expressway portion of US 71 between 75th Street and Swope Parkway in KCMO should be 50 or 55 instead of 45. There isn't much justification for the 45-MPH speed limit there just because it has traffic signals, when US 73/KS 7 in Kansas City, KS has traffic signals and a 65-MPH speed limit. And the 45-MPH speed limit on the entire downtown freeway loop is just absurd, and trying to stay within 5 MPH of it is a nightmare when most drivers treat it like it's at least a 55 zone.
This road (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.7437832,-76.2439419,3a,35.3y,169.46h,88.22t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s8TlzQJpXsSskEMVkQcx1UA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en) is 50 mph but this road (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.7207238,-76.3133884,3a,32.9y,235.59h,86.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smsMddd8Umv6tmgsWdlbZ7A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en) has to be 45 mph.
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=20436.0
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 28, 2021, 08:01:11 PM
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=20436.0
Relevant, but not a duplicate thread.
People seem to be misunderstanding the purpose of this thread, which is for examples of speed limits than make no sense
when compared to another nearby limit, like the ones in the OP and in the post above yours.
^ Yup. People simply turned it into another thread to complain about low speed limits in general, when there's already threads for that.
The speed limits in small communities throughout Warren and Vance counties on US-158 are ridiculously low. 35 mph needs to be at least 45, but really 55 in Middleburg. It needs to be 55 rather than 45 through Ridgeway and Manson. It needs to be 55 past the Food Lion shopping center in Norlina. The 35 mph limit in Macon and Vaughan need to be raised to 45 mph.
A slight variation on the original premise... speed limits that are the same despite being on roads of very different character that should not have the same limit. How about this (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2393905,-77.4906383,3a,90y,130.07h,64.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1stizN5BBYdEcfFedD0IWbSQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) and this (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1620828,-77.4751757,3a,75y,16.4h,82.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sc18i1cIPWusZN2aCb6OfqA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1) both being 35 mph?
35 mph is actually reasonable for the former. It's very narrow with no shoulders, and it also carries considerable bike and pedestrian traffic because of the many hiking/biking trails in the area. But given 35 mph there, the latter example should be at least 50 mph or 55 mph.
Agreed that the second shouldn't be 35. 45 at bare minimum.
US 30 being 55 between Lancaster PA and York while PA 283 between Lancaster and Harrisburg is 65
Drives me insane every time. Guessing PennDOT hasn't done any speed studies on US 30 for ages.
Prevailing speeds on 30 are easily 65-70, not that different from 283, and I'd argue 30 has similar design to 283
I could accept 55 approaching Mt Zion Rd from the west in York, or 55 from Centerville Rd and east in Lancaster. But 55 around Wrightsville is insane.
What makes it even more crazy is the fact I-83 is 65 mph but that stretch of highway can't be. I drove it a few months ago, maintained around 75 mph the whole way, and was passed on numerous occasions. Even that felt borderline crawling, I would've been comfortable around 80 mph - a typical rural interstate / freeway speed. No reason it shouldn't be even 70 mph.
PennDOT says because it is not designed for it. I call BS.
Here are my complaints on local streets near where I live.
This street, Wayne Ave has two lanes in both directions. It has a speed limit of 25 MPH and also has occasional speed cameras to help with enforcement.
https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9973953,-77.0216165,3a,37.5y,58.13h,83.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sA3OlpS_XUJHgQQp0lsEGcQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Here is Dale Drive that intersects Wayne Ave about 1/4 mile ahead of the previous link. It has only one lane in each direction, is somewhat curvy, and has narrow shoulders and no sidewalks. For whatever reason, it has a speed limit of 30 MPH.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0010206,-77.0178287,3a,75y,321.22h,76.71t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s-Cxglm9z0QsVdDd5ySCuBA!2e0!5s20191001T000000!7i16384!8i8192
Is there any rhyme or reason to this? IMO, Dale has a proper speed limit given its constraints. In recent times, the county has done some traffic calming on Dale, with curb extensions and bulbouts that actually make it quite difficult to go much faster than 30-35. Good job Montgomery County.
But I have no idea how Wayne is justified to be at 25 given that in all regards it is safer than Dale, since Wayne has twice as many lanes, sidewalks, and is a straighter street. It easily has the feel of a street for 35-40, so knowing about the cameras I basically crawl on the street while watching the speedometer.
In my area, US 3 from Burlington to the New Hampshire border has too low a speed limit. It really should be at least 65. I've gone 70 on that and people fly by me at 80+. Mass State Troopers say that it is how it is because they won't allow it.
The default speed limit on county roads in SD is 55 mph but can be set lower if desired. My county (Lawrence) has notoriously low speed limits throughout the county, with roads like this (https://www.google.com/maps/@44.5031731,-103.8896955,3a,37.5y,121.73h,82.14t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sS1obEoVFY7kXZSZ0QM9aNg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DS1obEoVFY7kXZSZ0QM9aNg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D99.376854%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192) being 35, for example. Butte County, just to the north, just uses the default speed limit (55) for anywhere that's not 2 miles outside a town. This leads to a scenario where you are on a well-maintained gravel road (dust suppression, the whole nine yards) with a speed limit of 40 in Lawrence County and you cross the Redwater into Butte County and the speed limit ups to 55 while the road turns to loose rocks and dust.
The eastern part of the CF Harvey Parkway in Kinston. It should be 65 or 70 mph but the posted speed is only 60 mph. This is a duplicate thread and therefore it should be merged with this (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=20436.250) one.
Quote from: tolbs17 on January 22, 2022, 08:38:38 PM
The eastern part of the CF Harvey Parkway in Kinston. It should be 65 or 70 mph but the posted speed is only 60 mph. This is a duplicate thread and therefore it should be merged with this (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=20436.250) one.
And of course, you bumped the other thread with the exact same message just so it's recent enough to warrant a merge...
Quote from: SkyPesos on January 22, 2022, 08:45:43 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on January 22, 2022, 08:38:38 PM
The eastern part of the CF Harvey Parkway in Kinston. It should be 65 or 70 mph but the posted speed is only 60 mph. This is a duplicate thread and therefore it should be merged with this (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=20436.250) one.
And of course, you bumped the other thread with the exact same message just so it's recent enough to warrant a merge...
I did not see this thread otherwise I would have posted it here.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 27, 2021, 05:24:19 PM
Quote from: ChiMilNet on August 27, 2021, 09:48:10 AM
Most any two lane rural road in Illinois only being 55 mph.
IL, WI, and IA need to get on board with MN and MI in this regard, although are there any two-lane roads in the LP posted at 65?
Just in the northern part north of Standish. M-65 is 65 mph as far south as US-23. Nothing is 65 south of there.
Quote from: sbeaver44 on September 07, 2021, 08:05:07 PM
US 30 being 55 between Lancaster PA and York while PA 283 between Lancaster and Harrisburg is 65
Drives me insane every time. Guessing PennDOT hasn't done any speed studies on US 30 for ages.
Prevailing speeds on 30 are easily 65-70, not that different from 283, and I'd argue 30 has similar design to 283
I could accept 55 approaching Mt Zion Rd from the west in York, or 55 from Centerville Rd and east in Lancaster. But 55 around Wrightsville is insane.
So is 55 on US 1 in Chester County. I've hit 80 on it on multiple occasions.
I-295 in Fayetteville should be 70 mph and yet it's only 65.
I-40 from Hillsborough to Raleigh should be 70 mph too.
I-40/I-85 from Greensboro to Hillsborough should be 70 and it's only 65 for some unknown reason.
I-40 from I-840/I-73 to the I-74 interchange in Winston-Salem. should be 70 and its posted at 65.
I-40 from Garner to Raleigh.
I-40 in Statesville is 60 mph, but the reason why is because it's substandard. Will probably be raised to 70 mph when rebuilt.
I-77 in Statesville is only 55 mph, but when rebuilt the fastest it will probably go to is 65 mph due to tight ramps.
US-70 (future I-42) in New Bern. Was 55 mph, but then raised to 60, should have been 65 but will probably go to 65 once the James City upgrades are complete.
I-73 north of Greensboro on the freeway that opened in 2017, why 65? Should be 70!
I-74 from the I-85 interchange in High Point to I-73/I-74 should be 70 but its posted at 65.
The Monroe Expressway. Should be 70 mph but for unknown reasons, it's only 65 mph.
To add in my home town, Memorial Drive (NC-11) has a short speed limit drop near Dickinson Ave. It drops from 45 mph to 35 mph between Maxwell Drive to the Norfolk Southern railroad track.
Any state where the maximum speed limit is less than 75 inherently makes no sense. Speed limits in general for most of the US Interstate system make no sense.
Just to clarify: the OP is comparing two different roads and saying that they're inconsistent with each other. This is not a thread for blanket statements.
Quote from: 1 on January 24, 2022, 07:31:56 AM
Just to clarify: the OP is comparing two different roads and saying that they're inconsistent with each other. This is not a thread for blanket statements.
While you are of course correct, the title of the thread likely did not help in attracting such specific responses.
I'm 100% sure NOBODY drives 50 mph on this expressway alignment. I'm guessing the reason why it's that low is because of the surrounding businesses and whatnot. Could have been 60 or 65
https://goo.gl/maps/gxUHvVELA2JJ8ybJA
^
Quote from: 1 on January 24, 2022, 07:31:56 AM
Just to clarify: the OP is comparing two different roads and saying that they're inconsistent with each other. This is not a thread for blanket statements.
Additionally, given that segment has numerous businesses and driveways, 55 mph would likely be the maximum speed it would be raised to.
And either way, it would not be permitted to be 65 mph as its not a controlled access facility.
Quote from: HighwayStar on January 24, 2022, 11:21:41 AM
Quote from: 1 on January 24, 2022, 07:31:56 AM
Just to clarify: the OP is comparing two different roads and saying that they're inconsistent with each other. This is not a thread for blanket statements.
While you are of course correct, the title of the thread likely did not help in attracting such specific responses.
I updated the thread title. It's a bit wordier, but hopefully clearer.