In the US, exits are numbered from west to east/south to north. Knowing that, has there ever been an instance of a highway with exit numbers being extended west or south, beyond exit 1? Is this usually enough of a reason to renumber the entire route, or are prefixes used (like A1, A2, ...?)
Quote from: highwaytuna on July 13, 2022, 07:03:20 PM
In the US, exits are numbered from west to east/south to north. Knowing that, has there ever been an instance of a highway with exit numbers being extended west or south, beyond exit 1? Is this usually enough of a reason to renumber the entire route, or are prefixes used (like A1, A2, ...?)
Here are 4 examples:
I-26 in North Carolina
I-77 in South Carolina
I-185 in South Carolina
I-385 in South Carolina
Plus there is I-69 in Indiana which had exits renumbered northeast of Indianapolis but the numbers don't reflect actual new mileage.
I-70 used to end at Denver in the west. I'm not sure if the exit numbers started at 1 in Denver or not, as the extension westward via US 6 was planned somewhat early on. They maybe could've numbered the exits in the 200s anticipating that extension.
Some other western/southern extensions I can think of, and unsure about the exit numbers:
- I-64 East St Louis to Wentzville
- I-44 OKC to Wichita Falls
- I-75 Tampa to Miami
I-70 never ended in Denver as a physical road. The mileage to extend it further west came with the 1956 Federal Highway Act, while the first part of 70 to open in the state was in 1961...in Idaho Springs, which is west of Denver anyway. Not to mention I doubt exit numbers were even used then.
When WI 15 was designated I-43, exit numbers on existing I-43 from Milwaukee on north had their numbers added by 72 or 73 and the new section used their original exit numbers.
Quote from: highwaytuna on July 13, 2022, 07:03:20 PM
In the US, exits are numbered from west to east/south to north. Knowing that, has there ever been an instance of a highway with exit numbers being extended west or south, beyond exit 1? Is this usually enough of a reason to renumber the entire route, or are prefixes used (like A1, A2, ...?)
Since the freeway is re-mileposted, the exits would be renumbered to match the new mileposts.
Quote from: SkyPesos on July 13, 2022, 07:48:58 PM
I-70 used to end at Denver in the west. I'm not sure if the exit numbers started at 1 in Denver or not, as the extension westward via US 6 was planned somewhat early on. They maybe could've numbered the exits in the 200s anticipating that extension.
Some other western/southern extensions I can think of, and unsure about the exit numbers:
- I-64 East St Louis to Wentzville
- I-44 OKC to Wichita Falls
- I-75 Tampa to Miami
I-64 started at milepost 3 in Illinois before it was extended west. That's also I-55 and I-70 milepost 3.
I-44 was a hodgepodge of old sequential turnpike exit numbers at that time.
I-75 was sequential in Florida at the time it was extended over the Everglades Parkway. When Florida renumbered their exits to match the mileposts, I-75 was already complete throughout the state.
I suppose in the future, I-49 in NW AR will have to be renumbered when it finally connects with the SW AR section. Or any time after they determine the final route of the middle section. It looks like right now NW AR I-49 is still using the old I-540 exit numbers.
When I-26 in TN was extended over the remainder of I-181 to Kingsport, all of the exit numbers were renumbered to start at US 11W in Kingsport. Prior to this the exit numbers were based on US 23 and started at the NC line. So at the TN/NC line you were at mm 0 for both states.
In KY, the Natcher Pkwy was extended SE from I-65 to US 231 in the 00's, and all of the exit #s along the entire original road were increased by 2 or 3. Then a few years ago the original road was upgraded to I-165, but this did not include the SE extension, which became the Natcher's formerly unposted state route designation of KY 9007. So basically I-165 reverted back to the Natcher Pkwy's original pre-extension exit numbers.
Quote from: wriddle082 on July 13, 2022, 08:58:46 PM
I suppose in the future, I-49 in NW AR will have to be renumbered when it finally connects with the SW AR section. Or any time after they determine the final route of the middle section. It looks like right now NW AR I-49 is still using the old I-540 exit numbers.
It's actually a mix of old and new. The Bella Vista Bypass has the full I-49 exit numbers already set up, while the former I-540 is keeping its numbers for now. Perhaps they could've pulled an I-69 and slapped a 2 before the old numbers, but what good would that do? Most of us may never get to travel on I-49 through AR, so we're stuck with the current scheme for a while longer.
Quote from: Brandon on July 13, 2022, 08:37:56 PM
I-44 was a hodgepodge of old sequential turnpike exit numbers at that time.
I'm not quite sure how accurate this is. I-244 and I-444 used to derive their exit numbers from I-44's–that is, rather than starting at 0 they started at whatever the MP was of the highway was that they branched from. This led to an exit on I-444 getting the number 94D, which appeared on signs as late as the mid-2000s. 94 miles sounds about right for distance from downtown Tulsa to I-35, so unless the Turner used sequential numbers that all of a sudden changed to mileage-based on free I-44...
Quote from: Scott5114 on July 14, 2022, 09:00:15 PM
Quote from: Brandon on July 13, 2022, 08:37:56 PM
I-44 was a hodgepodge of old sequential turnpike exit numbers at that time.
I'm not quite sure how accurate this is. I-244 and I-444 used to derive their exit numbers from I-44's–that is, rather than starting at 0 they started at whatever the MP was of the highway was that they branched from. This led to an exit on I-444 getting the number 94D, which appeared on signs as late as the mid-2000s. 94 miles sounds about right for distance from downtown Tulsa to I-35, so unless the Turner used sequential numbers that all of a sudden changed to mileage-based on free I-44...
I swear I saw them numbered sequentially and separately somewhere before. I think it was an old RMcN, but after searching, now I'm not certain.
If I-85 ever gets extended in AL, it'll need a major overhaul of its numbering scheme. BTW, what would happen to its length when it gets rerouted onto the new Montgomery Bypass as planned?
Could we count I-40 in Memphis to this group? I know it wasn't extended beyond mile 0, but it was effectively extended (by the re-routing along the northern leg of I-240 because of the Overton Park thing) creating three miles of mile 1 (mile 1A, mile 1B and mile 1C), so the mileage of I-240 and the re-routed I-40 would match.
^ They still don't match. The I-40/I-240 interchange uses exit 10 for I-40 west and Sam Cooper Boulevard and exit 12 for I-40 east and I-240.
I think Tennessee should simply change the mileposts and exits of I-40 to be correct, I realize that is 450+ miles to change, but I think it's good to have correct mileposts and exits
Far cheaper, if it were a real issue, would be to have mile 1 be wherever the current numbering implies it should be, and for the miles west of there, just continue Arkansas's numbering.
At least it's more accurate than the original segment of I-69 in IN. You have Exit 200 for what's supposed to be 184, and everything else past that is 16 off as well.
Quote from: vdeane on July 20, 2022, 09:00:51 PM
^ They still don't match. The I-40/I-240 interchange uses exit 10 for I-40 west and Sam Cooper Boulevard and exit 12 for I-40 east and I-240.
...so the mileage of I-240 and the re-routed I-40 would
kinda, almost, not really match.
Better?
^ Sure. They at least managed to avoid numbering weirdness with the west junction by extending exit 1 (even though it would normally be exit 3). I wonder why they didn't just split the difference and call the east junction exit 11.
Every example I can think of in Texas uses the mileage for whatever road it's taking the place of–or where the planned endpoint would be. Case in point: interstate 2 exits start at Exit 130—since the plan is to have it run to Laredo.
Louisiana is curious as to how mileage will change once I-49 is continued south. Especially since the terminus could either be at I-310 in Boutte or I-10 at the Superdome headed back north. That will be A LOT of extra miles. Currently freeway sections there either use US 90 mileage or Bus US 90 mileage on the Westbank and in NO.
iPhone
They could just do what Indiana did, add a multiple of 100 that is sufficient to cover the new mileage.
Quote from: bassoon1986 on August 06, 2022, 08:35:29 PM
Louisiana is curious as to how mileage will change once I-49 is continued south. Especially since the terminus could either be at I-310 in Boutte or I-10 at the Superdome headed back north. That will be A LOT of extra miles. Currently freeway sections there either use US 90 mileage or Bus US 90 mileage on the Westbank and in NO.
iPhone
I would give I-49 south a new number. Extension of the current north and south would be meaningless since the highway will essentially run east and west. And even though cardinal directions are meaningless in New Orleans (where everything is Uptown, Downtown, lakebound, or riverbound) having an accurate direction description would be more realistic for the rest of Louisiana and especially to travelers from outside the state.
Quote from: Mapmikey on July 13, 2022, 07:16:13 PM
Quote from: highwaytuna on July 13, 2022, 07:03:20 PM
In the US, exits are numbered from west to east/south to north. Knowing that, has there ever been an instance of a highway with exit numbers being extended west or south, beyond exit 1? Is this usually enough of a reason to renumber the entire route, or are prefixes used (like A1, A2, ...?)
Here are 4 examples:
I-26 in North Carolina
I-77 in South Carolina
I-185 in South Carolina
I-385 in South Carolina
Plus there is I-69 in Indiana which had exits renumbered northeast of Indianapolis but the numbers don't reflect actual new mileage.
The I-69 exit numbers north of Indianapolis had 200 added to them, so drivers could equate the new exit numbers to the old exit numbers. The actual added mileage is 190 miles, so it is only ten miles different.
When I-690 was extended back in the late 1980s, NYSDOT renumbered all the interchanges with a new set of sequential numbers.
Quote from: wriddle082 on July 13, 2022, 08:58:46 PM
I suppose in the future, I-49 in NW AR will have to be renumbered when it finally connects with the SW AR section. Or any time after they determine the final route of the middle section. It looks like right now NW AR I-49 is still using the old I-540 exit numbers.
When I-26 in TN was extended over the remainder of I-181 to Kingsport, all of the exit numbers were renumbered to start at US 11W in Kingsport. Prior to this the exit numbers were based on US 23 and started at the NC line. So at the TN/NC line you were at mm 0 for both states.
In KY, the Natcher Pkwy was extended SE from I-65 to US 231 in the 00's, and all of the exit #s along the entire original road were increased by 2 or 3. Then a few years ago the original road was upgraded to I-165, but this did not include the SE extension, which became the Natcher's formerly unposted state route designation of KY 9007. So basically I-165 reverted back to the Natcher Pkwy's original pre-extension exit numbers.
Not sure how I missed this original post, because the Natcher example above is what I was going to provide.
I was told that there might be an instance or two where the third-generation exit numbers might not match the original numbers, and they might be different by 1, but I haven't gone back to check to see if that's actually the case.
Kentucky's about to have the opposite happen. With the extension of I-265 across the East End Bridge, the Gene Snyder Freeway's exit numbers are going to start at I-65. They now start at US 31W/US 60.
At one time, I-93 was proposed to be extended down MA 24 towards Fall River. This was back in 2010 and of course that plan is dead. I wonder if MassDOT would've kept the sequential numbers at the time or if they would've switched to mileage based numbers had that happened.
Quote from: Henry on July 14, 2022, 12:54:44 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on July 13, 2022, 08:58:46 PM
I suppose in the future, I-49 in NW AR will have to be renumbered when it finally connects with the SW AR section. Or any time after they determine the final route of the middle section. It looks like right now NW AR I-49 is still using the old I-540 exit numbers.
It's actually a mix of old and new. The Bella Vista Bypass has the full I-49 exit numbers already set up, while the former I-540 is keeping its numbers for now. Perhaps they could've pulled an I-69 and slapped a 2 before the old numbers, but what good would that do? Most of us may never get to travel on I-49 through AR, so we're stuck with the current scheme for a while longer.
Let's not forget, I-540 itself had wonky exit numbers due to an extension to the
north. They increased
both northbound from I-40
and southbound from I-40.
Quote from: Henry on July 14, 2022, 12:54:44 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on July 13, 2022, 08:58:46 PM
I suppose in the future, I-49 in NW AR will have to be renumbered when it finally connects with the SW AR section. Or any time after they determine the final route of the middle section. It looks like right now NW AR I-49 is still using the old I-540 exit numbers.
It's actually a mix of old and new. The Bella Vista Bypass has the full I-49 exit numbers already set up, while the former I-540 is keeping its numbers for now. Perhaps they could've pulled an I-69 and slapped a 2 before the old numbers, but what good would that do? Most of us may never get to travel on I-49 through AR, so we're stuck with the current scheme for a while longer.
While this was true at first, ARDOT "corrected" the northern 3 exit numbers after a few weeks of the Bella Vista Bypass being completed and signed.
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3324.msg2698027#msg2698027 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3324.msg2698027#msg2698027)
AR-549 in Ft. Smith/Barling actually has the appropriate exit numbers currently, but I'd wager that once they cross the Arkansas River Valley with the missing carriageway, or at least a Super-2 precursor, they "correct" the exits to make Exit 1 to be US-71 south of Rye Hill as it likely be decades before the middle miles get funded all the way to Texarkana, even with a Super-2.
Quote from: kphoger on March 21, 2023, 04:05:40 PM
Quote from: Henry on July 14, 2022, 12:54:44 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on July 13, 2022, 08:58:46 PM
I suppose in the future, I-49 in NW AR will have to be renumbered when it finally connects with the SW AR section. Or any time after they determine the final route of the middle section. It looks like right now NW AR I-49 is still using the old I-540 exit numbers.
It's actually a mix of old and new. The Bella Vista Bypass has the full I-49 exit numbers already set up, while the former I-540 is keeping its numbers for now. Perhaps they could've pulled an I-69 and slapped a 2 before the old numbers, but what good would that do? Most of us may never get to travel on I-49 through AR, so we're stuck with the current scheme for a while longer.
Let's not forget, I-540 itself had wonky exit numbers due to an extension to the north. They increased both northbound from I-40 and southbound from I-40.
Technically that's MUTCD compliant (the MUTCD doesn't have any example of 2-way spur numbering, but for 1 way spur it begins from the parent freeway and extends until the spur ends)
Quote from: ran4sh on May 02, 2023, 09:39:06 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 21, 2023, 04:05:40 PM
Quote from: Henry on July 14, 2022, 12:54:44 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on July 13, 2022, 08:58:46 PM
I suppose in the future, I-49 in NW AR will have to be renumbered when it finally connects with the SW AR section. Or any time after they determine the final route of the middle section. It looks like right now NW AR I-49 is still using the old I-540 exit numbers.
It's actually a mix of old and new. The Bella Vista Bypass has the full I-49 exit numbers already set up, while the former I-540 is keeping its numbers for now. Perhaps they could've pulled an I-69 and slapped a 2 before the old numbers, but what good would that do? Most of us may never get to travel on I-49 through AR, so we're stuck with the current scheme for a while longer.
Let's not forget, I-540 itself had wonky exit numbers due to an extension to the north. They increased both northbound from I-40 and southbound from I-40.
Technically that's MUTCD compliant (the MUTCD doesn't have any example of 2-way spur numbering, but for 1 way spur it begins from the parent freeway and extends until the spur ends)
It's not as bad as Future I-795 in Florida going North to South and away from its future parent.
Quote from: roadman65 on May 02, 2023, 10:15:51 PM
Quote from: ran4sh on May 02, 2023, 09:39:06 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 21, 2023, 04:05:40 PM
Quote from: Henry on July 14, 2022, 12:54:44 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on July 13, 2022, 08:58:46 PM
I suppose in the future, I-49 in NW AR will have to be renumbered when it finally connects with the SW AR section. Or any time after they determine the final route of the middle section. It looks like right now NW AR I-49 is still using the old I-540 exit numbers.
It's actually a mix of old and new. The Bella Vista Bypass has the full I-49 exit numbers already set up, while the former I-540 is keeping its numbers for now. Perhaps they could've pulled an I-69 and slapped a 2 before the old numbers, but what good would that do? Most of us may never get to travel on I-49 through AR, so we're stuck with the current scheme for a while longer.
Let's not forget, I-540 itself had wonky exit numbers due to an extension to the north. They increased both northbound from I-40 and southbound from I-40.
Technically that's MUTCD compliant (the MUTCD doesn't have any example of 2-way spur numbering, but for 1 way spur it begins from the parent freeway and extends until the spur ends)
It's not as bad as Future I-795 in Florida going North to South and away from its future parent.
It works when you think of FL 9B (future I-795) being a spur of I-295/FL 9A.
Quote from: SkyPesos on July 20, 2022, 11:01:08 PM
At least it's more accurate than the original segment of I-69 in IN. You have Exit 200 for what's supposed to be 184, and everything else past that is 16 off as well.
That was done because the exits had existed since the 1960s along the original I-69 and it was simpler for people to understand the new ones were all going to be the old numbers plus 200. Plus, at the time, the exact routing for the southern extension of I-69 had not been finalized, and rather than waiting for that to occur, INDOT just went ahead with the "+200" scheme for "Classic I-69". Because it was always assumed (after the 1970s) that the connection between the southern extension and classic sections of I-69 would be via a multiplex with I-465, and that no I-465 exit numbers would change as a result, it really doesn't matter that the mileage doesn't add up because the route is discontinuous anyway.
In my not-so humble opinion, the southern extension of I-69 between Memphis & Indy SHOULD have been designated as I-63 in the first place, which would have made the more sense in the grand numbering scheme of Interstates, as well as rendering the renumbering of along Classic I-69 in Indiana a moot issue. But I understand why it was designated as I-69, though it sadly will never be completed nationwide in my lifetime. Hey, it only took most of a lifetime for my state to get it built to Evansville!
Funny thing is, the best example of this situation is I-17 in Phoenix, but famously, I-17 ended at mile post 201.6 and not 0, so oh well.