Limon should be a control city

[Roadgeekteen]

If I had to choose the control cities on I-95 in SC I would go with

SB: Florence, Savannah.

NB: Florence, Fayetteville

Using Columbia and Charleston makes no sense at all.

His logic is to use Charleston until the US 17 exit, as Charleston is a big city and lots of people are going there, and use Columbia until I-26 as it's angling that way or something. He also says that Raleigh should be used on I-95 in North Carolina. He hates small cities being used. You know what I wouldn't mind being used instead of Florence? Washington DC.

Richmond is a big city in Virginia and the state capital.

I'm totally fine with Richmond being a control citiy. But from that far out I'd be ok with occasionally signing DC as many travelers go from Florida to the Northeast. Maybe as the bottom line of mileage signs. Went back and looked at my plans, I had Florence, Fayetteville, and Richmond, skipping the Benson/Dunn mess and Rocky Mount, though I'm more ok with Rocky Mount.

[RoadWarrior56]

If it weren't for Control City Freak, would the topic of Limon, CO as a control city even be a discussion topic, much less having so many posts?  "Todd" of Control City Freak should be given an award from the Limon Chamber of Commerce for having made the town so famous.

[hotdogPi]

If it weren't for Control City Freak, would the topic of Limon, CO as a control city even be a discussion topic, much less having so many posts?  "Todd" of Control City Freak should be given an award from the Limon Chamber of Commerce for having made the town so famous.

YouTube channel: Joined April 22, 2021

2012 mention of Limon as a control city

[TheHighwayMan3561]

"Minnesota" is used on I-90 in the La Crosse area.

They really don't want to use Rochester

Even within Minnesota, MnDOT refers to Rochester as "Rochester Exit" on second-line mentions.

[kphoger]

I could see Limon growing bigger if the US 287 corridor between there and Amarillo is made into a freeway (northern extension of I-27?) or at least a four-lane - thus creating an expressway connection between Denver and Dallas - as I've seen rumors about on the forum from time to time. If that were to happen, then I suppose Limon would actually work as a control city. Anyway, what do you think?

I could see Limon growing bigger by about eleven residents.  Maybe.

But probably not.

[Flint1979]

You know what I wouldn't mind being used instead of Florence? Washington DC.

Richmond is a big city in Virginia and the state capital.

I was about to type the name of another city that shouldn't be skipped (Fayetteville), but you beat me to it as I was multitasking.

I agree with Fayetteville as the home of Fort Bragg and has a city population of over 200,000 and a metro population of over 500,000. Washington, DC shouldn't and I believe isn't used until Richmond. I'll make someone mad and say they should use Fredericksburg for a control city on I-95 north of Richmond lol.

[roadman65]

Fredericksburg is not used like Olympia, WA isn't on I-5 from Portland or Seattle.

[Scott5114]

Limon is such a good control city it appears as an example in the MUTCD.

[vdeane]

Looks like someone liked upstate NY.

[hobsini2]

If none of you people knew that Limon was a control city we wouldn't be having this discussion but for some reason Limon gets shot down by roadgeeks simply because it's not a big enough place? I've read up on control cities and one thing they mention is that there is not a limit on how big a place has to be in order to be a control city. Like I've said before Mackinac Bridge is a control city in Michigan, it's a bridge not a city and makes perfect sense as a control city, St. Ignace is used in the U.P. instead of Mackinac Bridge until you get to St. Ignace then Mackinac Bridge is used followed by Saginaw in the Lower Peninsula but St. Ignace is slightly bigger than Limon and pretty much a major stop on I-75 in the U.P.

But anyway Limon is fine as a control city, it's a known place in Colorado, it doesn't have to be known in New York or Massachusetts or Michigan but it is known in Colorado and considered a hub city in eastern Colorado due to the highway junction which is exactly why it's a control city, has nothing to do with the size of the community.

The Mackinac bridge is different from Limon because it is a major geographic feature that travelers know about. Limon is not. If North Dakota followed Colorado's rules, Dickinson would be signed on I-94 west of Bismarck, not Billings.

Dickinson (24k) is the 7th largest city in ND and on I-94. Dickinson is an acceptable secondary control city given its importance in western ND.
Limon (1,167) is the 210th largest "city" in Colorado.
Bad comparison.
It would be more like signing Valley City on I-94 from Bismarck instead of Fargo.

[hobsini2]

Yeah, plenty of people all over the country have heard of Vail, but that doesn't mean they know it's on I-70 west of Denver on the way to Utah.  They just know it's in the Colorado Rockies somewhere.

What about Wisconsin Dells, which is used? (I would rather have neither than both.)

Frankly, I think Wis Dells is a bad control city.

I spent my young childhood (through age eight) in the Chicago area, and then I lived there for seven years after college as well.  The first time I drove up to Minnesota (probably 2003 or so), I thought, Huh, so apparently the Wisconsin Dells are around here somewhere.

It should be Tomah northbound, possibly doubled with Eau Claire, and just Madison southbound.

Tomah??? Really? KP, with all due respect because you are genuinely one of the nicest and thoughtful people in the forum, if you don't think Wis Dells, which is a major tourist destination, is a good control city but Tomah is because it happens to be where 90/94 split then you are way wrong. If you said it should be just straight up La Crosse and Eau Claire out of Madison, I got no issue there. Tomah is nothing more than a good secondary.

[hobsini2]

By the way, I think "Kansas" is fine on I-70 eastbound in Colorado. Unlike many other control states, it's valid for all of Kansas, at least as a first step (e.g. for Dodge City or Wichita, you'll be on I-70 for the first part of the journey). This is unlike New Hampshire's use of "To All Maine Points" on I-95 where NH 16 splits and some of the inland areas of Maine are better reached by ignoring the Maine sign and getting on NH 16. I'm not that familiar with Illinois's control states, but I believe they're even worse in this regard than NH's signing of Maine.

Whenever someone brings up control states, a bunch of users always raid the thread with cries of AH I HATE CONTROL STATES  without actually giving an explanation to why they hate them.

Because they're not specific. When you are within 10 miles of the Illinois/Indiana state line, where, exactly, in Indiana are you heading? Gary? Indianapolis? Evansville?

If the highway is the major gateway to the state from a corner, like I-94/80/294 are to Indiana, then using Indiana is perfectly fine since you would use that highway to get to the decision point for Indianapolis, Toledo and Detroit.

[hobsini2]

Yeah, plenty of people all over the country have heard of Vail, but that doesn't mean they know it's on I-70 west of Denver on the way to Utah.  They just know it's in the Colorado Rockies somewhere.

What about Wisconsin Dells, which is used? (I would rather have neither than both.)

Frankly, I think Wis Dells is a bad control city.

I spent my young childhood (through age eight) in the Chicago area, and then I lived there for seven years after college as well.  The first time I drove up to Minnesota (probably 2003 or so), I thought, Huh, so apparently the Wisconsin Dells are around here somewhere.

It should be Tomah northbound, possibly doubled with Eau Claire, and just Madison southbound.

No, the Dells are much more known, and a larger destination than Tomah.

Wow, I'm surprised Wisconsin Dells is actually the name of a city. I thought it was just the name of a region.

The original name for Wis Dells was Kilbourn City, named after one of the founders and former 2 time mayor of Milwaukee and President of the Milwaukee & La Crosse Railroad, Byron Kilbourn. If you are interested in fascinating history, lookup the "Milwaukee Bridge Wars".

[roadman65]

Clinton, NJ is one that used to be a stand out community along US 22, but since North Central Jersey got overbuilt, it doesn't stand out. Yet it's still copied over even along I-78 in many places. Being things have changed it's about time to use Allentown coming out of Newark and New York.

[kphoger]

Tomah??? Really? KP, with all due respect because you are genuinely one of the nicest and thoughtful people in the forum, if you don't think Wis Dells, which is a major tourist destination, is a good control city but Tomah is because it happens to be where 90/94 split then you are way wrong. If you said it should be just straight up La Crosse and Eau Claire out of Madison, I got no issue there. Tomah is nothing more than a good secondary.

I defer to the judgment of people more local to the area than I am.  Enough folks have said that Tomah is a garbage control city, that I have to believe them.  For what it's worth, I'd rather have double control cities of La Crosse and Eau Claire–but I started out that sentence assuming there would only be a single control city, so I went with Tomah.  I added the "possibly doubled with" part as an afterthought, and I really should have just rethought the whole thing at that point.

Having said that, I wonder why more people don't defer to the judgement of people more local to the Limon area.

[kalvado]

Having said that, I wonder why more people don't defer to the judgement of people more local to the Limon area.

Because the question is who is being served by (and who needs)  control cities most. Is it locals, who would ultimately familiarize themselves with whatever is on those signs; or long haul drivers, who would get "Take I-70 East towards Limon" GPS prompt, and would match that aS "first letter is L, that checks out" 
Of course, in the paper maps era being able to find that control city on the map was a requirement. I bet map makers obliged anyways. 

[HighwayStar]

Having said that, I wonder why more people don't defer to the judgement of people more local to the Limon area.

Because there is nothing special about being "local" to any place that gives someone more say in how a national highway network built for all Americans should be designed. Locals are actually often the worst group to consult, as they can be biased towards wanting signage to draw traffic to the town etc. Locals know the area best, and thus have the least need for control cities, which are there to help unfamiliar motorists navigate.

[kphoger]

Would "Limon Beltway" be better?

[Roadgeekteen]

Using locals is also faulty as control cities are meant to help long distance travels, as locals already know which roads to take.

[kphoger]

Using locals is also faulty as control cities are meant to help long distance travels, as locals already know which roads to take.

That's not necessarily true.  I grew up about 3 or 4 hours east of Denver, so I was somewhat local.  We traveled to Denver for shopping or whatever a couple of times every year.  I knew where Limon was, but that doesn't mean I automatically knew which lane of the freeway to use to get there from Denver.  I have distinct memories from high school, finding my way out of Denver on I-70, relying on overhead signage to get me there.

Even within a city someone lives in, there are likely to be junctions he's never used.  For example, I lived in the Chicago suburbs for almost seven years, but I'm not sure I used the Tri-State even once that whole time.

[HighwayStar]

Would "Limon Beltway" be better?

Limon lacks a beltway so no. That badge of shame is reserved for another nameless city that unlike Limon is not on I-70

[roadman65]

Would "Limon Beltway" be better?

Limon lacks a beltway so no. That badge of shame is reserved for another nameless city that unlike Limon is not on I-70

Have you driven I-40 west of Flagstaff, AZ? If not you're in for a treat as Los Angeles is the control city.  If you look at any map, I-40 ends in Barstow, CA that is still many miles and two other routes away from LA.

[hobsini2]

Tomah??? Really? KP, with all due respect because you are genuinely one of the nicest and thoughtful people in the forum, if you don't think Wis Dells, which is a major tourist destination, is a good control city but Tomah is because it happens to be where 90/94 split then you are way wrong. If you said it should be just straight up La Crosse and Eau Claire out of Madison, I got no issue there. Tomah is nothing more than a good secondary.

I defer to the judgment of people more local to the area than I am.  Enough folks have said that Tomah is a garbage control city, that I have to believe them.  For what it's worth, I'd rather have double control cities of La Crosse and Eau Claire–but I started out that sentence assuming there would only be a single control city, so I went with Tomah.  I added the "possibly doubled with" part as an afterthought, and I really should have just rethought the whole thing at that point.

Having said that, I wonder why more people don't defer to the judgement of people more local to the Limon area.

In general, I am in favor of having a secondary and primary control posted together. I know there are some in the forum that don't want anything to do with secondary control cities. That's fine. Their opinion. As for deferring to the locals, I would agree with that to an extent. There should be some basic rules of thumb and the locals could always bring up good exceptions to the rule. In the case of Limon, I get why it is a control city but should be relegated to secondary status, not primary. I would argue that going west on 70, Denver and Colo Springs should be cosigned primaries until Limon from Colby since that is where US 24 comes into play. Heading east is a bit tougher because of a lack of cities nearby. One could make a case for Topeka and Kansas City. Another could make a case for Salina and Hays. I think Hays would be safer to use than Salina because there is another Salina that is also 427 miles from Denver, not in Kansas. But secondary controls absolutely deserve to be used on the mileage signs consistently.