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Poll

Which date is your preference for the 2016 Toronto meet?

Saturday June 4, 2016
- 7 (24.1%)
Saturday June 11, 2016 - This option has been selected.
- 9 (31%)
Saturday June 18, 2016
- 7 (24.1%)
Saturday June 25, 2016
- 6 (20.7%)

Total Members Voted: 10


Author Topic: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated  (Read 12075 times)

cbeach40

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Re: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated
« Reply #50 on: June 08, 2016, 10:26:14 AM »

I can't even imagine what an exit inspection would entail, having never been outside of the US/Canada (which are apparently outliers for being two of only 4-5 countries (and I think the UK and Ireland just started doing exit checks, which would bring the count down) that don't have pervasive exit checks).

In my experience they're incredibly similar to an entry one. You go up to the desk, they ask you a few questions, they stamp your passport, you go.
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vdeane

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Re: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated
« Reply #51 on: June 08, 2016, 07:37:57 PM »

So basically, they have a chance to prevent you from leaving the country if they think your itinerary is stupid (as they tend to think of roadgeeking itineraries, and is the reason why I don't travel to Canada without a roadmeet to provide the "visiting friends" excuse while hoping they don't ask too many followup questions; even one question of the "what do you plan to/did you see" variety instantly reveals that the purpose of the trip was to clinch roads) or you don't look like a stereotypical tourist, thereby causing trips to hinge on proving oneself to two authorities instead of just one.

Personally, I like that the country with harsher immigration officers is the one that can't deny me entry.  If they can deny me exit, that might make me rethink whether to cross the border.  It would suck to pay for hotels and have to cancel at the last second because someone at customs doesn't understand roadgeeks (heck, I ALREADY refuse to book hotels that don't have free cancellation for exactly this reason).
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cu2010

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Re: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated
« Reply #52 on: June 08, 2016, 08:25:25 PM »

I believe they do that when the US authorities are after somebody, they can catch them before they attempt to cross the border, I remember being told that once.

More than likely, yes. CBP conducted exit interviews at all of the North Country crossings (particularly the land crossings into Quebec) after the breakout at Dannemora last summer.

From what I understand of them, they were generally quick and painless...they didn't ask too many questions.
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MisterSG1

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Re: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated
« Reply #53 on: June 09, 2016, 09:28:39 AM »

So basically, they have a chance to prevent you from leaving the country if they think your itinerary is stupid (as they tend to think of roadgeeking itineraries, and is the reason why I don't travel to Canada without a roadmeet to provide the "visiting friends" excuse while hoping they don't ask too many followup questions; even one question of the "what do you plan to/did you see" variety instantly reveals that the purpose of the trip was to clinch roads) or you don't look like a stereotypical tourist, thereby causing trips to hinge on proving oneself to two authorities instead of just one.

Personally, I like that the country with harsher immigration officers is the one that can't deny me entry.  If they can deny me exit, that might make me rethink whether to cross the border.  It would suck to pay for hotels and have to cancel at the last second because someone at customs doesn't understand roadgeeks (heck, I ALREADY refuse to book hotels that don't have free cancellation for exactly this reason).

Just tell the truth and you shouldn't have problems. The main focus of customs checks is mainly two things, that you don't pose anything that would make you criminally inadmissible to entry, and that you don't intend to live there, which would make you inadmissible on the basis of intent to immigrate. Obviously, if your story makes it clear that you are going to return back home than you shouldn't have a problem. Sure they can deny you for any reason, but exactly on what grounds of inadmissibility are there if you tend to take a specific road trip in Canada?

Maybe speaking as a Canadian, I think the CBSA are more difficult people to deal with personally. But it depends on who you get. You should not use "visiting friends" because they may ask for a specific person and their address, and will go as far as calling them to verify your story. Both sides usually take dishonesty as grounds of inadmissibility.

I crossed the border recently with my friend who is not a Nexus holder, and outright told him, this was at Port Huron, that I was going to 23 Mile Road to go to White Castle....seriously he didn't have a problem and even made reference to "Harold & Kumar go to White Castle". Going to White Caste I think is more of a head scratcher than simply doing some road geeking in my opinion anyways.
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cbeach40

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Re: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated
« Reply #54 on: June 09, 2016, 09:46:58 AM »

 
So basically, they have a chance to prevent you from leaving the country if they think your itinerary is stupid

No, not at all. They really don't care if you're doing something stupid in another country, they're worried if you're up to something criminal in either country (particularly smuggling of drugs, weapons, human trafficking, etc). Or they're interested that you did in fact leave the country if you are not a resident. Hence why the Mexican border is the priority, as that's where those issues are certainly more of a concern than at the Canadian one.


(as they tend to think of roadgeeking itineraries, and is the reason why I don't travel to Canada without a roadmeet to provide the "visiting friends" excuse while hoping they don't ask too many followup questions; even one question of the "what do you plan to/did you see" variety instantly reveals that the purpose of the trip was to clinch roads) or you don't look like a stereotypical tourist, thereby causing trips to hinge on proving oneself to two authorities instead of just one.

Again, the exit authorities aren't really going to deny you exit - and if they did, you're probably being arrested, so a cancelled trip is likely not going to be your greatest concern.

And regarding border questions, I really do not get what's so hard about that. There are plenty of other reasons to cross the border - sightseeing, shopping, lunch, etc. No reason none of those couldn't be an excuse - and odds are to a point they all happen in conjunction with exploring highways anyway. So it is true.
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vdeane

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Re: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated
« Reply #55 on: June 09, 2016, 01:20:34 PM »

So basically, they have a chance to prevent you from leaving the country if they think your itinerary is stupid (as they tend to think of roadgeeking itineraries, and is the reason why I don't travel to Canada without a roadmeet to provide the "visiting friends" excuse while hoping they don't ask too many followup questions; even one question of the "what do you plan to/did you see" variety instantly reveals that the purpose of the trip was to clinch roads) or you don't look like a stereotypical tourist, thereby causing trips to hinge on proving oneself to two authorities instead of just one.

Personally, I like that the country with harsher immigration officers is the one that can't deny me entry.  If they can deny me exit, that might make me rethink whether to cross the border.  It would suck to pay for hotels and have to cancel at the last second because someone at customs doesn't understand roadgeeks (heck, I ALREADY refuse to book hotels that don't have free cancellation for exactly this reason).

Just tell the truth and you shouldn't have problems. The main focus of customs checks is mainly two things, that you don't pose anything that would make you criminally inadmissible to entry, and that you don't intend to live there, which would make you inadmissible on the basis of intent to immigrate. Obviously, if your story makes it clear that you are going to return back home than you shouldn't have a problem. Sure they can deny you for any reason, but exactly on what grounds of inadmissibility are there if you tend to take a specific road trip in Canada?

Maybe speaking as a Canadian, I think the CBSA are more difficult people to deal with personally. But it depends on who you get. You should not use "visiting friends" because they may ask for a specific person and their address, and will go as far as calling them to verify your story. Both sides usually take dishonesty as grounds of inadmissibility.

I crossed the border recently with my friend who is not a Nexus holder, and outright told him, this was at Port Huron, that I was going to 23 Mile Road to go to White Castle....seriously he didn't have a problem and even made reference to "Harold & Kumar go to White Castle". Going to White Caste I think is more of a head scratcher than simply doing some road geeking in my opinion anyways.
From what I've heard, Canadians crossing and driving decent distances to shop and go to restaurants are not uncommon (heck, some border communities were complaining about lack of parking and empty shelves at big box stores back when the exchange rate favored Canada more); meanwhile, Americans usually only cross if they're planning to be a very stereotypical tourist and buy cheesy souvineers (last time I came back, US customs got VERY suspicious of the fact that I didn't have anything to declare and was only bringing back one of the Nunavut maps Oscar was giving out, revealed on a followup question).  Every time I've used "meeting up with friends" as a way to pass off a roadmeet, simply saying that we come from all over satisfies them.  The one time I got sent to secondary, I had to go through zillions of questions explaining myself and what a "highway enthusiest" is (I didn't use the word "roadgeek" and there were times when the went off to look up who knows what and I honestly thought they were going to deny me entry for about 15 minutes there (that one was an odd one though; it was just me meeting up with AsphaltPlanet for an afternoon in an impromptu Montreal mini-meet, and since I was coming from Potsdam and had a roadtrip planned for the next day, I didn't pad the trip with anything; it was also my first time ever talking to customs and I can think of a few answers I'd phrase differently to be more clear and concise if I had to do it again).  Also, in my experience, customs is suspicious of people who travel on their own, which I always do.

Heck, last time I had to justify to US customs why I was working at NYSDOT instead of using my computer science degree, as if that makes me a criminal.  They also made me nervous when they had me turn off the engine and open the trunk; I thought they were going to detain me and take the car apart, but to my great surprise, they actually let me go after a quick glance.

It doesn't help that I have an anxiety disorder and tend to get extremely nervous around authority figures.  It also doesn't help that my trips tend to consist entirely of route clinching and roadmeets, and not much (if anything) else.
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cl94

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Re: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated
« Reply #56 on: June 09, 2016, 01:58:22 PM »

A run-in with Customs is why I broke down and got NEXUS. They typically don't care as much if you have Nexus.
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cbeach40

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Re: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated
« Reply #57 on: June 09, 2016, 03:02:30 PM »

From what I've heard, Canadians crossing and driving decent distances to shop and go to restaurants are not uncommon (heck, some border communities were complaining about lack of parking and empty shelves at big box stores back when the exchange rate favored Canada more); meanwhile, Americans usually only cross if they're planning to be a very stereotypical tourist and buy cheesy souvineers

Based on the plates you see in parking lots on this side of the border, that is most definitely not the case. Some days it seems like half the plates at the Niagara outlets are yellow NY ones these days (the current exchange rate probably stimulating that).

 
Heck, last time I had to justify to US customs why I was working at NYSDOT instead of using my computer science degree, as if that makes me a criminal.  They also made me nervous when they had me turn off the engine and open the trunk; I thought they were going to detain me and take the car apart, but to my great surprise, they actually let me go after a quick glance.

That's really normal. I think I probably got the trunk checked about half the time before I got Nexus. Even with Nexus it's not unheard of.

Per the point regarding work, always bear in mind customs officers going both ways will employ a variety of questions that are designed to throw you off. Everyone expects the usual citizenship, where are you going, how long are you staying, bringing anything with you questions. Itís the really random ones that will cause a criminal to lose their cool. That and acting authoritative (or dickish in the case of one I had at the D-W Tunnel last week) are a deliberate action, designed to keep you off balance.

It doesn't help that I have an anxiety disorder and tend to get extremely nervous around authority figures.  It also doesn't help that my trips tend to consist entirely of route clinching and roadmeets, and not much (if anything) else.

And therein lays probably part of the issue as far as the border officers go. If you get all anxious and worried at the border, then it really makes it look like youíre up to something. Not that you are, but that definitely is the logic from their side of the table.
Basically, just be polite with them, and answer their questions directly, and it should be fine.

I understand that especially with anxiety issues something like the border can be intimidating. So I really hope it helps a bit to see a little of the why in what they do.

:)
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Re: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated
« Reply #58 on: June 09, 2016, 06:06:26 PM »

I hope it's okay to ask this here, even though I have brought it up on a previous forum but since I have seen the conversation crop up here I wanted to ask. I'm taking a week-long trip up to Canada from June 25 to July 2 and have never done the border crossing by myself before. My trip from Indianapolis will run through Detroit up to Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto and Niagara Falls before heading back through at Port Huron. If I am doing primarily tourist stuff (which is certainly my intent I like to see these places and explore) and not mention any roadgeeking stuff, that should go over well with the customs people right? I am traveling by myself and someone mentioned previously that it is looked at with suspicion. I also have a small beard, will I get any problem for that, it resembles my picture on my passport so I thought that keeping it would help with identification. And traveling out I plan on having my car cleaned with only a duffle bag for clothes and a backpack with my laptop and maps and in the trunk some jumper cables and a spare tire that I have, will I get any problems for this. It's only a shame that the meet wasn't schedules for the 25th or I may have seriously considered it, I plan on traveling across the 401 that Saturday en route to my first overnight near Kingston.
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Re: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated
« Reply #59 on: June 09, 2016, 06:53:27 PM »

I imagine the effects of traveling on your own are greater if you're just turned 21 a couple months ago and drive a car that's technically registered to your Mom and in college than if you're older, driving your own car, and have an established career.
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Re: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated
« Reply #60 on: June 09, 2016, 07:20:12 PM »

Well I'm 28 and I have done road trips by myself before, none for this length or out of country. I do own the registration for my car and I do have a full-time job. That said, the insurance is under my mom's name, for both her vehicle and mine, will that be an issue? And I do apologize for hijacking this thread any more than it's already been.
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Re: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated
« Reply #61 on: June 09, 2016, 08:26:27 PM »

Last time I crossed the border solo (going to the Senators-Red Wings game in Ottawa on Halloween), each crossing took about thirty seconds. No problems at all.
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cl94

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Re: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated
« Reply #62 on: June 09, 2016, 09:23:59 PM »

Last time I crossed the border solo (going to the Senators-Red Wings game in Ottawa on Halloween), each crossing took about thirty seconds. No problems at all.

I haven't had a problem crossing solo since I got NEXUS. Cross too often without it and they think you're a drug runner.
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Re: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated
« Reply #63 on: June 09, 2016, 10:52:16 PM »

I imagine the effects of traveling on your own are greater if you're just turned 21 a couple months ago and drive a car that's technically registered to your Mom and in college than if you're older, driving your own car, and have an established career.

Age doesn't seem to overcome the societal suspicion of single people. The most offensive was the U.S. agent at Sault-Ste-Marie MI, giving me a hard time for not being married. (Interesting side question: do gay couples get more credit at borders for being married or otherwise partnered, than grief for being gay?)

My established career might help me a little, though agents seem more pleased by the "retired" part than the "lawyer" part.

Border hassles seems a fertile topic for discussion at the meet lunch. Ninety minutes might not be enough.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 10:56:06 PM by oscar »
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cl94

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Re: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated
« Reply #64 on: June 09, 2016, 11:04:11 PM »

Border hassles seems a fertile topic for discussion at the meet lunch. Ninety minutes might not be enough.

I was thinking that. Everyone has a few stories.
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Re: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated
« Reply #65 on: June 10, 2016, 05:18:52 PM »

Are we scheduled for 11:00 or 11:30? I need to know what route I'm taking, since GO doesn't exactly run frequently.
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Re: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated
« Reply #66 on: June 10, 2016, 06:14:31 PM »

11. Also, I offered to pick you up (and anyone else taking public transportation) at the Whitby GO station.
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Re: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated
« Reply #67 on: June 10, 2016, 06:21:32 PM »

Are we scheduled for 11:00 or 11:30? I need to know what route I'm taking, since GO doesn't exactly run frequently.

The Lakeshore West and Lakeshore East line ALWAYS run a train every 30 minutes even on weekends. So using GO to get there should be no issue at all.
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Re: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated
« Reply #68 on: June 10, 2016, 06:23:36 PM »

11. Also, I offered to pick you up (and anyone else taking public transportation) at the Whitby GO station.
I thought the place was immediately outside the GO station, and that it was for 11:30, in which case I could just take the bus almost directly from my place and walk there. I hope it's not too late to take you up on that?
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Re: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated
« Reply #69 on: June 10, 2016, 06:26:28 PM »

As an added bonus, you get a view you can't see by road of the 401/412 interchange from the train.  :bigass:
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Re: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated
« Reply #70 on: June 10, 2016, 06:43:00 PM »

The Lakeshore West and Lakeshore East line ALWAYS run a train every 30 minutes even on weekends. So using GO to get there should be no issue at all.

Except it actually runs every hour at the time I would need to take it. :pan: Besides, I'm coming from near Finch station, so that's not the best option; instead, I'll likely be taking the 10:05 trip of the 96B that will land me in Whitby at 10:55.
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Re: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated
« Reply #71 on: June 10, 2016, 06:45:25 PM »

if that's the case, I could pick you up at Finch so you don't have to deal with MetroStinx transit. :D

It's an offer, if you want to go through with it just PM me as I'm coming from Brampton anyway.
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Re: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated
« Reply #72 on: June 10, 2016, 06:51:58 PM »

It's still an option, but I will leave it up to you whose offer you prefer. PM me as well and I can provide you my number.
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Re: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated
« Reply #73 on: June 10, 2016, 07:10:37 PM »

Hope the rain hits in the early morning like forecasts are currently saying and not later in the day. Might make my drive from Buffalo miserable, but I'd take that over bad meet weather.

For the Toronto people: what is the cheapest gas near the restaurant? My wallet will hate me, but I'm not starting the meet without a full tank.
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Re: Toronto 2016 Meet Date Poll - Updated
« Reply #74 on: June 10, 2016, 07:12:08 PM »

It's still an option, but I will leave it up to you whose offer you prefer. PM me as well and I can provide you my number.

You could even pick him up at Finch if you want to. The ramp from 401 EB to Yonge NB is one of the more enjoyable ramps to drive on in the GTA....and well, downtown North York or "North York Centre" is a rather interesting area, it has a downtown feel on Yonge, but go 200 feet either east or west of Yonge and you are back in suburbia....that's what I mean by interesting.
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