PA Turnpike News

[Beltway]

I drove thru there in 1972 and 1973 (actually was on a bus) and observed the tunnel bypasses with interest, but I can't recall whether the tie-ins between old and new were still traffic usable then.

Until the pavement condition deteriorated to the point where the old alignment became unusable, I think it would have been fairly easy for the PTC to reroute traffic over the Rays/Sideling section in an emergency. Until whenever it was (about 2006-07 if I recall correctly) that the US 30, Pump Station Rd, and Little Egypt Rd. overpasses were removed, it was still possible (though illegal) to simply veer right onto the old alignment at Breezewood, drive through both tunnels nonstop, then merge onto the active lanes of the Turnpike approaching Willow Hill. There would have been bottlenecks at both ends as State Police would have had to set up cones or other channelizing devices to route vehicles through a crossover and onto the old alignment–as well as at the two-lane tunnels–but the pavement was still continuous and traversable. If a longer term detour was necessary, the PTC could have easily set up barriers and temporary striping to allow non-stop four-lane access at both ends with almost no reduction in speed.

Depends on the amount of grade change at each tie-in, if considerable they would demolish and obscure at least 300 to 500 feet of the old highway, to where there would be an embankment in the way of any direct traffic connection.

I would have to review each of the four tie-ins, onsite, before I could make a determination.

[PHLBOS]

And there's no mention of the PA 9 designation on the NE Extension that was added in 1974.

I thought the PA 9 designation for the NE Extension didn't happen until 1980.

[briantroutman]

And there's no mention of the PA 9 designation on the NE Extension that was added in 1974.

I thought the PA 9 designation for the NE Extension didn't happen until 1980.

I'm going by the PAHighways page on I-476 which at the bottom lists "Former Designations...PA 9 (1974-1996)" .

[PHLBOS]

And there's no mention of the PA 9 designation on the NE Extension that was added in 1974.

I thought the PA 9 designation for the NE Extension didn't happen until 1980.

I'm going by the PAHighways page on I-476 which at the bottom lists "Former Designations...PA 9 (1974-1996)" .

If one clicks on the PA 9 link further down in your posted link; one reads (bold emphasis added below):

In 1980, it was revived to designate the Northeast Extension of the Turnpike.

[briantroutman]

Well...I guess it's your choice of who to believe: Jeff Kitsko or Jeff Kitsko!

[PHLBOS]

Given that the now long-gone porcelain button-copy BGS' from the 1970s for the NE Extension displayed only the PA Turnpike shield & no other route shield; it's a reasonable assumption that 1980 was the correct date.

Example:


This one at the Norristown interchange had a PA 9 shield slapped on it during the early 90s:

[noelbotevera]

On another topic, I'm curious as to why the Zelienople service plaza closed. Ever since the closure, there is an 82 mile gap in westbound services between New Stanton and Mahoning Valley (on the Ohio Turnpike). I could understand it being closed eastbound because of the nearby Oakmont Plum, but not westbound. Was it closed due to finances, or Turnpike work in the area (such as widening)?

[rickmastfan67]

On another topic, I'm curious as to why the Zelienople service plaza closed. Ever since the closure, there is an 82 mile gap in westbound services between New Stanton and Mahoning Valley (on the Ohio Turnpike). I could understand it being closed eastbound because of the nearby Oakmont Plum, but not westbound. Was it closed due to finances, or Turnpike work in the area (such as widening)?

I'm guessing because of them making that section of the Turnpike free.  More people now get off at US-19/I-79 (Cranberry) to use the services there than they would have in the past do to no toll booths anymore.

[ipeters61]

Given that the now long-gone porcelain button-copy BGS' from the 1970s for the NE Extension displayed only the PA Turnpike shield & no other route shield; it's a reasonable assumption that 1980 was the correct date.

Example:


This one at the Norristown interchange had a PA 9 shield slapped on it during the early 90s:

Was this the case on signage on the mainline as well?  Rarely would I hear people in PA refer to "476" or "76," it was always just "the Turnpike" and "the Extension."

[PHLBOS]

Given that the now long-gone porcelain button-copy BGS' from the 1970s for the NE Extension displayed only the PA Turnpike shield & no other route shield; it's a reasonable assumption that 1980 was the correct date.

Example:


This one at the Norristown interchange had a PA 9 shield slapped on it during the early 90s:

Was this the case on signage on the mainline as well?  Rarely would I hear people in PA refer to "476" or "76," it was always just "the Turnpike" and "the Extension."

Then & now, the PTC hardly use pull-through signs for its mainline corridors; it only uses such at locations where a route number changes (example: Valley Forge I-76/276, route numbers are used).  Even at locations where a route enters/exits the Turnpike (example: I-70 at both Breezwood & New Stanton interchanges); the PTC rarely uses pull-through signage.

The use of pull-through signage at the I-376/Pittsburgh interchange (Exit 57) is a carry-over from when I-76 used to exit off the Turnpike and follow the current I-376 into Pittsburgh (the Turnpike west of there was I-80S) prior to 1972.

[ipeters61]

Given that the now long-gone porcelain button-copy BGS' from the 1970s for the NE Extension displayed only the PA Turnpike shield & no other route shield; it's a reasonable assumption that 1980 was the correct date.

Example:
<photo>

This one at the Norristown interchange had a PA 9 shield slapped on it during the early 90s:
<photo>

Was this the case on signage on the mainline as well?  Rarely would I hear people in PA refer to "476" or "76," it was always just "the Turnpike" and "the Extension."

Then & now, the PTC hardly use pull-through signs for its mainline corridors; it only uses such at locations where a route number changes (example: Valley Forge I-76/276, route numbers are used).  Even at locations where a route enters/exits the Turnpike (example: I-70 at both Breezwood & New Stanton interchanges); the PTC rarely uses pull-through signage.

The use of pull-through signage at the I-376/Pittsburgh interchange (Exit 57) is a carry-over from when I-76 used to exit off the Turnpike and follow the current I-376 into Pittsburgh (the Turnpike west of there was I-80S) prior to 1972.

Sorry, I meant to ask if that was the case on signage approaching the turnpike (i.e. after you pass through the toll booth but before entering the highway).

[PHLBOS]

Sorry, I meant to ask if that was the case on signage approaching the turnpike (i.e. after you pass through the toll booth but before entering the highway).

Old-school signage beyond the toll plaza simply listed a control city (in all-CAPS button-copy) & direction cardinal.  Prior to the NE Extension receiving the I-476 designation; these old signs did not have PA 9 trailblazer signage.  As a matter of fact, there was very little PA 9 signage posted along the Extension even through the mid-1990s.

When the NE Extension became I-476, supplemental I-476 trailblazer signage was added to the surviving old-school signs (usually posted underneath the main signage).   Most of these old signs were replaced during the early 2000s with more standard MUTCD-compliant BGS'.

[tckma]

Sorry, I meant to ask if that was the case on signage approaching the turnpike (i.e. after you pass through the toll booth but before entering the highway).

Old-school signage beyond the toll plaza simply listed a control city (in all-CAPS button-copy) & direction cardinal.  Prior to the NE Extension receiving the I-476 designation; these old signs did not have PA 9 trailblazer signage.  As a matter of fact, there was very little PA 9 signage posted along the Extension even through the mid-1990s.

When the NE Extension became I-476, supplemental I-476 trailblazer signage was added to the surviving old-school signs (usually posted underneath the main signage).   Most of these old signs were replaced during the early 2000s with more standard MUTCD-compliant BGS'.

I went to college from 1996-2000; my usual route from Long Island was to take I-80 through NJ to I-380 to I-81 to NY-79.  Near Scranton (and I think on I-80 and I-380 as well if memory serves), signage pointing out the Northeast Extension had a PA-9 keystone maker thrown on the sign almost as an afterthought.  In one case, I distinctly remember a rural BGS on the side of the road with a PA-9 keystone slapped under the BGS on one of the support posts.  It's almost as if PennDOT and/or PTC resisted signing the PA-9 designation.

Pretty sure many of those went away when PA switched from sequential exit numbers to milepost-based exit numbers in 2003 (I think?), but who knows.  I haven't driven or been a passenger on I-80 or I-380 in PA in at LEAST 12 years.  I still see signage on I-78 where it's clear from sign fading patterns that they just slapped the new exit number on the tab, maybe put up one of those "OLD EXIT XX" signs that will be there until the year 2525, and called it a day.

[PHLBOS]

I went to college from 1996-2000; my usual route from Long Island was to take I-80 through NJ to I-380 to I-81 to NY-79.  Near Scranton (and I think on I-80 and I-380 as well if memory serves), signage pointing out the Northeast Extension had a PA-9 keystone maker thrown on the sign almost as an afterthought.  In one case, I distinctly remember a rural BGS on the side of the road with a PA-9 keystone slapped under the BGS on one of the support posts.  It's almost as if PennDOT and/or PTC resisted signing the PA-9 designation.

It's quite possible that PA may have been anticipating seeking an Interstate designation for the NE Extension long before 1996; they may have wanted to wait and see if/when the Blue Route portion of I-476 would ever connect to the Turnpike (it did circa 1992).  As result, the PTC was likely directed to erect minimal PA 9 signage.  No sense placing a whole bunch of route shields along a road if they're going to be taken down a relatively short time later.

[ixnay]

PHLBOS, you rekindled memories of my college days with that "Harrisburg/Pittsburgh/and Ohio" sign (of which IIRC there was also one at Valley Forge).  They were the PTC's answer to the departed "N J TURNPIKE/SOUTH/Pa. - Del. - Md." sign in North Bergen, i.e. signs that said, "America awaits you!"

OTOH where were the quality assurance crew when it came to centering "New Jersey/Northeastern/Extension/Scranton" on the other sign?   

Thank you.

ixnay

[ipeters61]

Sorry, I meant to ask if that was the case on signage approaching the turnpike (i.e. after you pass through the toll booth but before entering the highway).

Old-school signage beyond the toll plaza simply listed a control city (in all-CAPS button-copy) & direction cardinal.  Prior to the NE Extension receiving the I-476 designation; these old signs did not have PA 9 trailblazer signage.  As a matter of fact, there was very little PA 9 signage posted along the Extension even through the mid-1990s.

When the NE Extension became I-476, supplemental I-476 trailblazer signage was added to the surviving old-school signs (usually posted underneath the main signage).   Most of these old signs were replaced during the early 2000s with more standard MUTCD-compliant BGS'.

I went to college from 1996-2000; my usual route from Long Island was to take I-80 through NJ to I-380 to I-81 to NY-79.  Near Scranton (and I think on I-80 and I-380 as well if memory serves), signage pointing out the Northeast Extension had a PA-9 keystone maker thrown on the sign almost as an afterthought.  In one case, I distinctly remember a rural BGS on the side of the road with a PA-9 keystone slapped under the BGS on one of the support posts.  It's almost as if PennDOT and/or PTC resisted signing the PA-9 designation.

I noticed the same pattern on the old 70s-style button copy signs on I-80 at PA-940/I-476 when I was growing up, likewise with the pictures.  Again, I personally feel like the PA Turnpike signage just said that because all people cared about was that it was the Turnpike and nothing else.

(and of course I'm wrong since I just checked Steve Alpert's site, notice the signage at US-11/I-76: http://alpsroads.net/roads/pa/i-81/n.html)

I went to college from 1996-2000; my usual route from Long Island was to take I-80 through NJ to I-380 to I-81 to NY-79.  Near Scranton (and I think on I-80 and I-380 as well if memory serves), signage pointing out the Northeast Extension had a PA-9 keystone maker thrown on the sign almost as an afterthought.  In one case, I distinctly remember a rural BGS on the side of the road with a PA-9 keystone slapped under the BGS on one of the support posts.  It's almost as if PennDOT and/or PTC resisted signing the PA-9 designation.

It's quite possible that PA may have been anticipating seeking an Interstate designation for the NE Extension long before 1996; they may have wanted to wait and see if/when the Blue Route portion of I-476 would ever connect to the Turnpike (it did circa 1992).  As result, the PTC was likely directed to erect minimal PA 9 signage.  No sense placing a whole bunch of route shields along a road if they're going to be taken down a relatively short time later.

I was 2 when PA-9 was turned over to I-476 so I've just been dying to see photos of signs with the designation.  I remember back in 2003 or so we were driving on I-476 around Villanova (where my uncle lived at the time) and there was a sign that said "I-476 Formerly PA-9" or something like that.

[tckma]

(and of course I'm wrong since I just checked Steve Alpert's site, notice the signage at US-11/I-76: http://alpsroads.net/roads/pa/i-81/n.html)

I remember a metric crap-ton of those center-tabbed, button-copy BGSs from 1996-2000 on the section of I-80 from the NJ state line (what IS Del Water Gap anyway?  it's not a town...) to I-380.  Even back then I thought "holy crap those look OLD."  Of course they didn't have the new exit numbers pasted haphazardly on the signs, since PA hadn't changed to milepost-based exit numbers yet.  I remember also thinking it incredibly stupid that PA didn't assign exit numbers to interstate-interstate junctions, so it was something like exit 53 down to exit 49, junction I-380, then exit 48 or something dumb like that.  I'd think... "Okay, exit 52... what exit is I-380?  It isn't an exit?  WTF mate?"

(Per Wikipedia, it was exit 44, junction I-380, exit 43...  my memory is apparently crap.  I did remeber that exit 53 was the first exit on 80 in PA, just as 68 was the last exit on 81 in PA...)

I-380 got re-surfaced during that timeframe (it was two-way, single-lane operation for AT LEAST a year, if memory serves), and they connected US-6 to I-81.  They put up a sign in Dunmore that listed exits that said "DUNMORE EXITS" and listed them.  I joked with my dad on one of the drives, "oh, the construction people here are hicks... they want you to know what they did... look, we done more exits..."

I really wish I'd taken pictures of signs... but back then, digital cameras weren't really a thing and I wouldn't have pulled over to take a road sign photo as I didn't think that was exactly legal.  I had no idea PA would change exit numbers and replace signage so soon after I graduated.

I would definitely have gotten the PA-9 shield under the Turnpike BGS, as I thought it was such an odd, haphazard way to sign a route number.

[jeffandnicole]

(what IS Del Water Gap anyway?  it's not a town...)

Technically, there is a borough with that name in PA: https://www.delawarewatergap.com/

Otherwise, Delaware Water Gap is referring to a National Recreation Area.  Not exactly BGS proper though.

[ipeters61]

(and of course I'm wrong since I just checked Steve Alpert's site, notice the signage at US-11/I-76: http://alpsroads.net/roads/pa/i-81/n.html)

I remember a metric crap-ton of those center-tabbed, button-copy BGSs from 1996-2000 on the section of I-80 from the NJ state line (what IS Del Water Gap anyway?  it's not a town...) to I-380.  Even back then I thought "holy crap those look OLD."  Of course they didn't have the new exit numbers pasted haphazardly on the signs, since PA hadn't changed to milepost-based exit numbers yet.  I remember also thinking it incredibly stupid that PA didn't assign exit numbers to interstate-interstate junctions, so it was something like exit 53 down to exit 49, junction I-380, then exit 48 or something dumb like that.  I'd think... "Okay, exit 52... what exit is I-380?  It isn't an exit?  WTF mate?"

Yeah, I remember that too back when I started really paying attention to roads.  What really got me were the ancient signs on I-81/83 in Harrisburg when we went on a field trip there in 5th grade.  I just remember thinking, "why does the state capital have such old worn out signs?"  Also remember the ones on I-180 in Williamsport...and US-1 north of Philadelphia (Yardley/Newtown area).  I didn't really like them much as a kid, thinking that they just made the road look like PennDOT stopped caring about it, but then I grew to like those signs.

Speaking of exit numbering in PA, the best is when my father and I were driving back from a trip to DC and were heading to my grandparents' house in Bloomsburg.  I didn't know the roads super well back then so I thought taking I-81 to I-80 made the most sense.  We were around Pottsville (Exit 107) and I told him we needed Exit 151 for I-80.  He just blurted out (he lived in CT for a long time, where exit numbers are sequential), "We have to go 40 more exits!?!?!" ...not realizing that the exits were mile based.  I think he called my grandparents and my grandfather rerouted him through Centralia, which was the better route anyway.

[PHLBOS]

I was 2 when PA-9 was turned over to I-476 so I've just been dying to see photos of signs with the designation.  I remember back in 2003 or so we were driving on I-476 around Villanova (where my uncle lived at the time) and there was a sign that said "I-476 Formerly PA-9" or something like that.

Found this one from 1993 while doing a Google Search (for PA Route 9):


This one shows a PA 9 shield underneath the I-476 shield (at the PA 100/Downingtown interchange):


Not much else.

[empirestate]

(what IS Del Water Gap anyway?  it's not a town...)

Technically, there is a borough with that name in PA: https://www.delawarewatergap.com/

Otherwise, Delaware Water Gap is referring to a National Recreation Area.

Well, or a water gap...

[Rothman]

Exactly.  It is a geographic feature that was one of the first ways west from New Jersey forged in the 18th Century.

[Flyer78]

I was 2 when PA-9 was turned over to I-476 so I've just been dying to see photos of signs with the designation.  I remember back in 2003 or so we were driving on I-476 around Villanova (where my uncle lived at the time) and there was a sign that said "I-476 Formerly PA-9" or something like that.

Found this one from 1993 while doing a Google Search (for PA Route 9):
...img snip...
This one shows a PA 9 shield underneath the I-476 shield (at the PA 100/Downingtown interchange):
..img snip...

Not much else.

Another example at the Norristown Interchange, that was even moved to the new monotube (before those were replaced).
https://goo.gl/maps/82T2odygPdv

[PHLBOS]

Another example at the Norristown Interchange, that was even moved to the new monotube (before those were replaced).
https://goo.gl/maps/82T2odygPdv

Containing the erroneous 76 WEST message.  Thankfully, the replacement sign has the correct (for this location) 276 WEST message.

[ipeters61]

I was 2 when PA-9 was turned over to I-476 so I've just been dying to see photos of signs with the designation.  I remember back in 2003 or so we were driving on I-476 around Villanova (where my uncle lived at the time) and there was a sign that said "I-476 Formerly PA-9" or something like that.

Found this one from 1993 while doing a Google Search (for PA Route 9):

Aha...I'd been wondering about that one for a while, wasn't sure where it disappeared to.