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OTM Book 12 "Standard/Highway" Signals

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SignGeek101:

--- Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on July 20, 2016, 08:25:25 PM ---"standard" traffic signals are pretty rare in Ontario.  I have come across a few in my travels.  Most recently, I came across a standard signal installed at the intersection of Pinewood Park Drive and Lake Shore Drive in North Bay a few weeks ago.  What's particularly interesting about these signals is that they are leftovers from when the MTO owned the intersection

GSV:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@46.263324,-79.3938108,3a,15y,132.59h,94.02t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sjjW-EgeorfaLqG5rxlHrBw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DjjW-EgeorfaLqG5rxlHrBw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D97.768219%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656

--- End quote ---

I hope that's just an old installation. No DOT should be using a 20-20-20 signal, especially on a high speed arterial or highway.

AsphaltPlanet:
I suspect that signal installation dates back to around the time when this was still part of Hwy 11.

7/8:

--- Quote from: MisterSG1 on July 20, 2016, 08:18:08 PM ---No I have not seen a 20/20/20 cm or 8/8/8 inch signal in Ontario to my knowledge.

Don't be confused, there are MANY 12/12/12 signals around, but in most of these cases, the green ball is an arrow, indeed any fully protected left turn in Ontario will use a 12/12/12 signal (you know, the ones right next to the LEFT TURN SIGNAL signs), as such a 12/8/8 signal for an arrow is illegal according to this document.

The second example you posted appears to be Type 11A assuming that's a right arrow head as that is the right side of the intersection.

--- End quote ---

Sorry, I've updated my second photo as another 12/12/12 signal with only 3 bulbs. 12/12/12 signals without arrows are still quite common in KW. Maybe not in other parts of Ontario?


--- Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on July 20, 2016, 08:25:25 PM ---"standard" traffic signals are pretty rare in Ontario.  I have come across a few in my travels.  Most recently, I came across a standard signal installed at the intersection of Pinewood Park Drive and Lake Shore Drive in North Bay a few weeks ago.  What's particularly interesting about these signals is that they are leftovers from when the MTO owned the intersection

GSV:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@46.263324,-79.3938108,3a,15y,132.59h,94.02t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sjjW-EgeorfaLqG5rxlHrBw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DjjW-EgeorfaLqG5rxlHrBw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D97.768219%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656

--- End quote ---

Good find! It just looks weird to me :)

MisterSG1:
I was reading through this document and I recall 7/8 asking if the Green Arrow that disappears during an advanced green is legal, they say it is only recommended that the yellow arrow be used, this is seen on Page 35 of the document (not the PDF file).

Interesting to me, what the FHWA would call a "leading-left", the MTO calls an "advanced green".

In my opinion, the flashing green balls of yesteryear aren't exactly the same as the green ball/green left arrow, in fact, a flashing green ball to me symbolizes a green ball/green left arrow/green right arrow on simultaneously. As all the flashing green ball situations that I've found that still run do indeed restrict pedestrians from crossing on both sides during a flashing green ball phase. The Ontario Driver's Handbook seems to conform with my belief:

"When you face a flashing green light or a left-pointing green arrow and a green light, you may turn left, go straight ahead or turn right from the proper lane. This is called an advanced green light because oncoming traffic still faces a red light."

In practicality though, you can only turn right if you yield to pedestrians, the old flashing green balls to my knowledge always had a hand signal showing for pedestrians on both sides, while the green ball/green left arrow shows a walk signal on the side that wishes to make a right turn.

7/8:

--- Quote from: MisterSG1 on July 20, 2016, 08:45:09 PM ---I was reading through this document and I recall 7/8 asking if the Green Arrow that disappears during an advanced green is legal, they say it is only recommended that the yellow arrow be used, this is seen on Page 35 of the document (not the PDF file).

Interesting to me, what the FHWA would call a "leading-left", the MTO calls an "advanced green".

In my opinion, the flashing green balls of yesteryear aren't exactly the same as the green ball/green left arrow, in fact, a flashing green ball to me symbolizes a green ball/green left arrow/green right arrow on simultaneously. As all the flashing green ball situations that I've found that still run do indeed restrict pedestrians from crossing on both sides during a flashing green ball phase. The Ontario Driver's Handbook seems to conform with my belief:

"When you face a flashing green light or a left-pointing green arrow and a green light, you may turn left, go straight ahead or turn right from the proper lane. This is called an advanced green light because oncoming traffic still faces a red light."

In practicality though, you can only turn right if you yield to pedestrians, the old flashing green balls to my knowledge always had a hand signal showing for pedestrians on both sides, while the green ball/green left arrow shows a walk signal on the side that wishes to make a right turn.

--- End quote ---

Interesting, TBH I've never thought about right movements with respect to the flashing green ball (the only one I regularly encountered shown below, was before I had my licence). I took this picture from GSV of the flashing green ball in Thornbury (Hwy 26 and Bruce St) and it actually shows the walking symbol on the right while the green ball is flashing. Maybe this is an exception, but it's still kind of scary that this seems to go against the Driver's Handbook :wow:

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