Since moving to Oregon, I've found the state to be pretty poor at signing. There aren't very many reassurance shields, and I find a huge lack of JCT signs before approaching another highway. Often times, there will be a small reassurance shield, sporadically, before a bridge almost like it was put up as an afterthought.
What states do you find particularly bad at signage?
Arkansas is the worst. Primarily due to the unwillingness to sign multiplexes. Which, if you're following a route, and it joins another, the reassurance shields are near impossible.
California can be pretty bad but largely depends on what district you're in or if there is a relinquishment that might lead to some odd lack of signage by whatever locality the roadway is handed over to.
Tennessee. Primary and secondary routes often wrongly signed, routes not signed well in cities, concurrencies rarely and poorly signed.
In Australia, Queensland is notoriously renowned for horrible, inconsistent, inaccurate and poorly designed signage which is fairly commonplace across the entire state. Not to mention that Queensland has only partially converted a handful of routes from a shielded system to an alphanumeric system and also that their state route system has multiple routes with duplicated numbers on unrelated routes throughout the entire state.
This link has an in-depth analysis of Queensland's state route system.
http://www.ozroads.com.au/QLD/routenumbering/state/stateroutes.htm (http://www.ozroads.com.au/QLD/routenumbering/state/stateroutes.htm)
Here are several shocking examples of signage in Queensland.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.expressway.online%2Fgallery%2Froads%2Fqld%2Fnumbered%2Falphanumeric%2Fm-a1%2F02_gatewaymwy%2F02_brisbanerivertobaldhills%2Fnorthbound%2Fimages%2F200908_16_nudgee_nudgeeservicectr_robtilley.jpg&hash=73917ecea2e566c5fa92ef10db15f22f572945bf)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.expressway.online%2Fgallery%2Froads%2Fqld%2Fnumbered%2Falphanumeric%2Fm-a1%2F02_gatewaymwy%2F02_brisbanerivertobaldhills%2Fnorthbound%2Fimages%2F200903_28_boondall_robtilley.jpg&hash=34fafb2a864254d93b5f0965eab46f6188507425)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.expressway.online%2Fgallery%2Froads%2Fqld%2Fnumbered%2Falphanumeric%2Fm-a1%2F02_gatewaymwy%2F01_rochedaletobrisbaneriver%2Fnorthbound%2Fimages%2F200903_05_rochedale_milesplattingrd_sr56_robtilley.jpg&hash=260ba5bc671d0c53321343a672edefd4b3e91af6)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.expressway.online%2Fgallery%2Froads%2Fqld%2Fnumbered%2Falphanumeric%2Fm-a1%2F02_gatewaymwy%2F01_rochedaletobrisbaneriver%2Fnorthbound%2Fimages%2F200903_01_eightmileplains_pacificmwy_m3_robtilley.jpg&hash=8a04d8709dda0186e7f82442b2eea44e65caa28e)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.expressway.online%2Fgallery%2Froads%2Fqld%2Fnumbered%2Falphanumeric%2Fm-a1%2F01_pacificmwy%2F01_nswbordertoreedyck%2Fsouthbound%2Fimages%2F201206_02_varsitylakes_stapleydr_reedyckrd_sr80_justincozart.jpg&hash=3fefad557b56c3d351937764c9c775b7b06f454c)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.expressway.online%2Fgallery%2Froads%2Fqld%2Fnumbered%2Falphanumeric%2Fm-a1%2F01_pacificmwy%2F02_reedycktogaven%2Fsouthbound%2Fimages%2F201206_13_nerang_pappasway_justincozart.jpg&hash=050b01fd135408534c04654fcd592aed23af222a)
Hard to top Alaska, where the locals pay no attention to route signs (like Hawaiians, generally referring to highways by name rather than number), and the state DOT seems to view them just as an accommodation to tourists. AK 11 has a 175-mile gap between its south end and the first set of reassurance markers. At least in 2012, AK 5 had route markers only at its south end at the Alaska Highway, not even at a major junction north of Chicken where it's not obvious which way to turn to stay on AK 5. At least junctions between state routes get route signs, though the one multiplex (between AK 1 and AK 4) is poorly signed.
Oregon by default puts reassurance shields on bridge signs for some reason - not an afterthought at all. The problem is they are barely anywhere else - often because the cross streets have a perpendicular facing shield with arrows.
Virginia many of their routes are only marked by these little signs with little arrows on them.
Quote from: national highway 1 on January 31, 2017, 06:01:55 PM
In Australia, Queensland is notoriously renowned for horrible, inconsistent, inaccurate and poorly designed signage which is fairly commonplace across the entire state. Not to mention that Queensland has only partially converted a handful of routes from a shielded system to an alphanumeric system and also that their state route system has multiple routes with duplicated numbers on unrelated routes throughout the entire state.
This link has an in-depth analysis of Queensland's state route system.
http://www.ozroads.com.au/QLD/routenumbering/state/stateroutes.htm (http://www.ozroads.com.au/QLD/routenumbering/state/stateroutes.htm)
I think all of Australia should go back to the old route system. The alphanumeric system is too confusing.
Quote from: dvferyance on February 01, 2017, 05:31:20 PM
Virginia many of their routes are only marked by these little signs with little arrows on them.
No, no, no. Think about how many routes are actually signed by number, though. The signs may be small, but it sure beats the pants off not numbering them or signing them at all.
Quote from: kphoger on February 02, 2017, 01:06:55 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on February 01, 2017, 05:31:20 PM
Virginia many of their routes are only marked by these little signs with little arrows on them.
No, no, no. Think about how many routes are actually signed by number, though. The signs may be small, but it sure beats the pants off not numbering them or signing them at all.
I get not using the circle shield at every junction but there are many secondary routes of more significance and they are all still just marked by these tiny signs along them it's hard to see going 55 MPH. The circle shields are only used along the major primary highways.
Illinois can be highly variable by district. Some, like District 1 (Schaumburg) can be rather anal-retentive about signage. Others, like District 8 (Collinsville) can be rather sloppy.
Another thing I noticed on Oregon is that they don't seem to like to use "TO" on signs all that much.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 28, 2017, 11:54:06 PM
Tennessee. Primary and secondary routes often wrongly signed, routes not signed well in cities, concurrencies rarely and poorly signed.
Noticed that quite a bit when I was down there last fall. Quite a few primaries/secondaries mixed up.
Quote from: dvferyance on February 01, 2017, 05:32:30 PM
Quote from: national highway 1 on January 31, 2017, 06:01:55 PM
In Australia, Queensland is notoriously renowned for horrible, inconsistent, inaccurate and poorly designed signage which is fairly commonplace across the entire state. Not to mention that Queensland has only partially converted a handful of routes from a shielded system to an alphanumeric system and also that their state route system has multiple routes with duplicated numbers on unrelated routes throughout the entire state.
I think all of Australia should go back to the old route system. The alphanumeric system is too confusing.
Well, the US uses alphanumeric, we just don't post the letters on the signs (minus a few states like Rhode Island and Michigan, amongst others). QLD's system of just using the letter before the number allows the use of repeated numbers (for example, A1 and M1 are both allowed because it's basically impossible to confuse the two), plus you don't have to rely on the driver knowing which shield represents which route type. It's a much more fool-proof system, especially if there's several layers of route types (motorway, A-road, B-road, or Interstate, Primary State Highway, Secondary State Highway).
Not sure what you mean by "signing", so I'm going to assume you mean all signage.
British Columbia has some pretty bad quality control (both with old and new signage), and they love to leave up old highway shields of routes that have been long decommissioned. Examples of both below (some photos my own, some street view). While their signage can be rocky, they've cleaned up their act in recent years, and their APL approach to junction signage is genius, and should be utilised more often in other provinces/states.
Are you fucking kidding me...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FqrqB3Os.jpg&hash=ce02d1c66c47d7d222f4bf24382c24bbae8aad0c)
Route hasn't existed for several years (there are many other examples but this is my only photo)....
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FTfXO2f6.jpg&hash=77b0c3e14b61871a54a20624cbb3e6f1d33c5aa4)
A couple (almost) unreadable signs...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fpls24e2.png&hash=6928d5aa8979409578a85e1626330050626656d0)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FDBNtCD7.png&hash=302fb3738b777c1adef388295a99e6351b361de4)
Almost every street blade in Surrey is stretched for some reason...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FdqrCudy.png&hash=eb2f72f6f4eed9bb160a5b120ff2185d4b4afad8)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FE4NOcdt.png&hash=c3722ce319e9895d3e5bc5c14c1ca41c43379d04)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FqIGij8b.png&hash=0772f9d9e69d466c30b6a953a80853a0c8a43dc5)
A lot of old signs that are cool because old, but are way past their life span...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F15BaiIk.jpg&hash=1943e55b7e8b4ff19b0e680a119874220fa0cd5d)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FL6jW4L6.jpg&hash=fa273c7fb71b8cff07d8d490f511bc66055ebdaf)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fw6RfXct.jpg&hash=54c43c2cd144d262815ab79bf5210466e1310176)
We went this far into a thread called "states that suck at signing" and Oklahoma hasn't been mentioned once?
Oklahoma has problems with concepts such as "capital letters do not go in the middle of words" and "all letters on a sign should be more or less the same size".
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 03, 2017, 02:55:04 AM
We went this far into a thread called "states that suck at signing" and Oklahoma hasn't been mentioned once?
Oklahoma has problems with concepts such as "capital letters do not go in the middle of words" and "all letters on a sign should be more or less the same size".
I think the topic is meant to be general and not limited to Craig County. :bigass:
Quote from: hbelkins on January 28, 2017, 11:54:06 PM
Tennessee. Primary and secondary routes often wrongly signed, routes not signed well in cities, concurrencies rarely and poorly signed.
I second this. I remember when one of the challenges in the "Daily Picture Challenge!" thread back in January was something along the lines of "post signage showing two consecutive route numbers together," and one of the first examples that sprang to my mind was the TN SR 320/TN SR 321 intersection (both of which are secondary routes). I looked on Google Maps Streetview only to find that there was not adequate signage at all. There was no signage that showed the two numbers together, there was no END signage for TN 320, and more. I haven't been to this intersection in real life in years, so I had no memory of this until I came across it on GMSV. I think that in general TDOT does a fairly good job with their roads, but they could do much better at signing.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 03, 2017, 11:10:30 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 03, 2017, 02:55:04 AM
We went this far into a thread called "states that suck at signing" and Oklahoma hasn't been mentioned once?
Oklahoma has problems with concepts such as "capital letters do not go in the middle of words" and "all letters on a sign should be more or less the same size".
I think the topic is meant to be general and not limited to Craig County. :bigass:
I'm pretty sure I can find at least one ugly sign in all 77 counties. :P
More OK:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.static.flickr.com%2F2463%2F3685492495_d8ffb0a342_z.jpg&hash=3934d0400c3f1c629db47f0aea072a24ab8c4021)
Quote from: Big John on February 03, 2017, 10:52:16 PM
More OK:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.static.flickr.com%2F2463%2F3685492495_d8ffb0a342_z.jpg&hash=3934d0400c3f1c629db47f0aea072a24ab8c4021)
now how the fuck do you do that?
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on February 04, 2017, 01:23:44 AM
Quote from: Big John on February 03, 2017, 10:52:16 PM
More OK:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.static.flickr.com%2F2463%2F3685492495_d8ffb0a342_z.jpg&hash=3934d0400c3f1c629db47f0aea072a24ab8c4021)
now how the fuck do you do that?
Damn even the E and the F in LEFT looks crazy
And I agree with whoever said Arkansas earlier
Surprised CT hasn't been mentioned yet. Absolutely horrible in comparison to MA and NY, who put mile markers and reference route signs on all state maintained highway. The section of I-84 I drive on often through Greater Hartford has so many missing mileposts, and many of the ones there are illegible. Also, CT (except in one spot), does not label the beginning and endpoints of state routs like most states do. But the thing that sucks the most: reflective button copy signs that are grossly outdated like this one:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fct%2Fi-84%2Fe8.jpg&hash=b42c09fc866ee3e43f7942db1a5e7604b597f4a7)
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on February 04, 2017, 10:17:03 PM
Surprised CT hasn't been mentioned yet. Absolutely horrible in comparison to MA and NY, who put mile markers and reference route signs on all state maintained highway. The section of I-84 I drive on often through Greater Hartford has so many missing mileposts, and many of the ones there are illegible. Also, CT (except in one spot), does not label the beginning and endpoints of state routs like most states do. But the thing that sucks the most: reflective button copy signs that are grossly outdated like this one:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fct%2Fi-84%2Fe8.jpg&hash=b42c09fc866ee3e43f7942db1a5e7604b597f4a7)
Pretty much every sign in Connecticut is hideous:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1255.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fhh630%2FMadMaxRockatansky73%2FIMG_3734_zpsfocopb2x.jpg&hash=11a9221a2b5f93b862389558aaefc41f3aef6306)
The state route marker design is probably the ugliest in the entire country. There are frequent cheapo wooden signs posted all over the place like the ones above in my own little collection. The wear isn't worse than elsewhere they just appear that way due to the signage being posted far longer than it should be.
I don't think most states sign the ends of highways. The first time I ever saw the practice was in West Virginia. To me it seems to be the exception rather than the norm. Kentucky doesn't, and neither do our neighbors Virginia, Tennessee or Missouri. I don't think Illinois does it consistently. Indiana, Ohio and West Virginia are the only neighboring states that do it on a statewide basis.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 04, 2017, 11:31:49 PM
I don't think most states sign the ends of highways. The first time I ever saw the practice was in West Virginia. To me it seems to be the exception rather than the norm. Kentucky doesn't, and neither do our neighbors Virginia, Tennessee or Missouri. I don't think Illinois does it consistently. Indiana, Ohio and West Virginia are the only neighboring states that do it on a statewide basis.
Speaking of WV, I think they have some of the best signage, especially when it comes to marking side roads off of state highways.
SM-T230NU
Quote from: hbelkins on February 04, 2017, 11:31:49 PM
I don't think most states sign the ends of highways. The first time I ever saw the practice was in West Virginia. To me it seems to be the exception rather than the norm. Kentucky doesn't, and neither do our neighbors Virginia, Tennessee or Missouri. I don't think Illinois does it consistently. Indiana, Ohio and West Virginia are the only neighboring states that do it on a statewide basis.
Funny, the only state I've spent a lot of time on the surface in that doesn't sign them is Massachusetts. In addition to the states already mentioned, Maine, New York, Pennsylvania and Vermont sign ends pretty consistently.
Quote from: cl94 on February 05, 2017, 02:58:12 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 04, 2017, 11:31:49 PM
I don't think most states sign the ends of highways. The first time I ever saw the practice was in West Virginia. To me it seems to be the exception rather than the norm. Kentucky doesn't, and neither do our neighbors Virginia, Tennessee or Missouri. I don't think Illinois does it consistently. Indiana, Ohio and West Virginia are the only neighboring states that do it on a statewide basis.
Funny, the only state I've spent a lot of time on the surface in that doesn't sign them is Massachusetts. In addition to the states already mentioned, Maine, New York, Pennsylvania and Vermont sign ends pretty consistently.
MA has started the practice now, especially along interstates:
https://goo.gl/maps/RQ75LMsF2S42 (END I-84)
https://goo.gl/maps/6MAt4pe5JXE2 (BEGIN I-84)
https://goo.gl/maps/JEuLrfp8gcJ2 (END MA 21, but interesting, no mention of END MA 141 which also ends here)
MA 57 at the Agawam rotary: https://goo.gl/maps/ZFg9mJLctaQ2
I thought I had seen end assemblies in Massachusetts, just couldn't find any on GSV
Quote from: hbelkins on February 04, 2017, 11:31:49 PM
I don't think most states sign the ends of highways. The first time I ever saw the practice was in West Virginia. To me it seems to be the exception rather than the norm. Kentucky doesn't, and neither do our neighbors Virginia, Tennessee or Missouri. I don't think Illinois does it consistently. Indiana, Ohio and West Virginia are the only neighboring states that do it on a statewide basis.
Interesting, I'm so used to seeing them I never would have thought of it as being something that's somewhat rare. Ohio does do a good job posting route end signs, though I didn't notice the other day that there isn't one at US 250's end at US 6 in Sandusky.
Quote from: Buck87 on February 05, 2017, 08:15:49 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 04, 2017, 11:31:49 PM
I don't think most states sign the ends of highways. The first time I ever saw the practice was in West Virginia. To me it seems to be the exception rather than the norm. Kentucky doesn't, and neither do our neighbors Virginia, Tennessee or Missouri. I don't think Illinois does it consistently. Indiana, Ohio and West Virginia are the only neighboring states that do it on a statewide basis.
Interesting, I'm so used to seeing them I never would have thought of it as being something that's somewhat rare. Ohio does do a good job posting route end signs, though I didn't notice the other day that there isn't one at US 250's end at US 6 in Sandusky.
I seem to recall Colorado was not good at end signage.
No mention of the District of Columbia (for the purposes of highways and transportation, D.C. is a state).
It is not possible to follow any of the U.S. routes that cross D.C. (U.S. 1; U.S. 29; and U.S. 50) or the one bannered route that has a terminus in D.C. (Alternate U.S. 1) without an accurate map or GPS.
There are a few reassurance markers, but the turns that these routes make are all unsigned (and Alternate U.S. 1 (with one incorrect exception) is not signed at all in D.C.).
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on February 05, 2017, 05:31:24 PM
Quote from: cl94 on February 05, 2017, 02:58:12 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 04, 2017, 11:31:49 PM
I don't think most states sign the ends of highways. The first time I ever saw the practice was in West Virginia. To me it seems to be the exception rather than the norm. Kentucky doesn't, and neither do our neighbors Virginia, Tennessee or Missouri. I don't think Illinois does it consistently. Indiana, Ohio and West Virginia are the only neighboring states that do it on a statewide basis.
Funny, the only state I've spent a lot of time on the surface in that doesn't sign them is Massachusetts. In addition to the states already mentioned, Maine, New York, Pennsylvania and Vermont sign ends pretty consistently.
MA has started the practice now, especially along interstates:
https://goo.gl/maps/RQ75LMsF2S42 (END I-84)
https://goo.gl/maps/6MAt4pe5JXE2 (BEGIN I-84)
https://goo.gl/maps/JEuLrfp8gcJ2 (END MA 21, but interesting, no mention of END MA 141 which also ends here)
MA 57 at the Agawam rotary: https://goo.gl/maps/ZFg9mJLctaQ2
There are at least two END 128 signs: One right before the MA 127 junction in Gloucester (shown on 128's Wikipedia page) and the other at the I-95/I-93 junction in Canton. At the latter point there is also a BEGIN 128 sign.
Delaware certainly falls within this category. The state is good for inconsistent signage, carbon copies of carbon copies, using non-standard logos for a variety of things, etc.
Just finished posting all of the photos I took from my drive across Sussex County last month. Some examples of poor signing:
(https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/delaware013/us-013_sb_at_us-009_01.jpg) (https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/delaware013/us-013_sb_at_us-009_01.jpg)
U.S. 13 south at U.S. 9, this is the lone shield. No JCT assembly.
Approaching Delaware 5 on Delaware 24 east, you get this hanging JCT assembly and nothing else. Then a trailblazer for Delaware 5 (https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/delaware002/de-005_nb_024_eb_after_mt_joy_rd.jpg) afterwards.
(https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/delaware020/de-024_eb_app_de-005.jpg) (https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/delaware020/de-024_eb_app_de-005.jpg)
Delaware 5 and 23 overlap southward to Delaware 23, where they split. Delaware 5 turns west on Delaware 24, while Delaware 23 continues south to Masseys Landing. You would not know that based upon signage:
(https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/delaware002/de-005_023_sb_at_de-024.jpg) (https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/delaware002/de-005_023_sb_at_de-024.jpg)
Delaware 20 west approaches U.S. 9. This is the lone assembly posted. No west/east shields, no confirming marker for Delaware 20 after wards.
(https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/delaware020/de-020_wb_app_us-009.jpg) (https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/delaware020/de-020_wb_app_us-009.jpg)
Next Left / Next Right, x3
(https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/delaware141/de-141_nb_exit_003_28.jpg) (https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/delaware141/de-141_nb_exit_003_28.jpg)
2001
(https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/delaware141/de-141_nb_exit_003_30.jpg) (https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/delaware141/de-141_nb_exit_003_30.jpg)
2004
(https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/delaware141/de-141_nb_exit_003_29.jpg) (https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/delaware141/de-141_nb_exit_003_29.jpg)
2012
Beaches...
Delaware 26 east at the merge with Delaware 20
(https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/delaware020/de-026_eb_at_de-020_02.jpg) (https://www.aaroads.com/mid-atlantic/delaware020/de-026_eb_at_de-020_02.jpg)
These lifeguard tower trailblazers are all over the state, but this was the first time I found it as a stand alone assembly.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on February 05, 2017, 05:31:24 PM
Quote from: cl94 on February 05, 2017, 02:58:12 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 04, 2017, 11:31:49 PM
I don't think most states sign the ends of highways. The first time I ever saw the practice was in West Virginia. To me it seems to be the exception rather than the norm. Kentucky doesn't, and neither do our neighbors Virginia, Tennessee or Missouri. I don't think Illinois does it consistently. Indiana, Ohio and West Virginia are the only neighboring states that do it on a statewide basis.
Funny, the only state I've spent a lot of time on the surface in that doesn't sign them is Massachusetts. In addition to the states already mentioned, Maine, New York, Pennsylvania and Vermont sign ends pretty consistently.
MA has started the practice now, especially along interstates:
https://goo.gl/maps/RQ75LMsF2S42 (END I-84)
https://goo.gl/maps/6MAt4pe5JXE2 (BEGIN I-84)
https://goo.gl/maps/JEuLrfp8gcJ2 (END MA 21, but interesting, no mention of END MA 141 which also ends here)
MA 57 at the Agawam rotary: https://goo.gl/maps/ZFg9mJLctaQ2
Actually, Massachusetts began providing END markers, also advance ENDS 1 1/2 MILE signs, on their Interstates and freeways in 2004, at the same time they installed a large number of post-interchange distance signs. The markers and signs were installed at the request of then Governor Romney.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 04, 2017, 11:31:49 PM
I don't think most states sign the ends of highways. The first time I ever saw the practice was in West Virginia. To me it seems to be the exception rather than the norm. Kentucky doesn't, and neither do our neighbors Virginia, Tennessee or Missouri. I don't think Illinois does it consistently. Indiana, Ohio and West Virginia are the only neighboring states that do it on a statewide basis.
Actually I have found Illinois to be very consistent in signing the ends of their highways. In fact even more so than Wisconsin becasue Wisconsin typically doesn't sign the end of a highway at a state line Illinois usually does. I think your right on Virginia as I saw both ends of VA-122 and the southern end of VA-116 as well as a couple others not one end sign anywhere.
Quote from: billpa on February 05, 2017, 09:26:11 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 04, 2017, 11:31:49 PM
I don't think most states sign the ends of highways. The first time I ever saw the practice was in West Virginia. To me it seems to be the exception rather than the norm. Kentucky doesn't, and neither do our neighbors Virginia, Tennessee or Missouri. I don't think Illinois does it consistently. Indiana, Ohio and West Virginia are the only neighboring states that do it on a statewide basis.
Speaking of WV, I think they have some of the best signage, especially when it comes to marking side roads off of state highways.
SM-T230NU
Signage along WV-72 (or does WV use SR for their state roads) is very good, especially for a one lane state highway through the middle of nowhere. All county routes, and what I believe are national forest routes are also signed. The ridiculously narrow gravel pathways to homes are signed if they have a name.
Quote from: hbelkins on February 04, 2017, 11:31:49 PM
I don't think most states sign the ends of highways. Indiana, Ohio and West Virginia are the only neighboring states that do it on a statewide basis.
Michigan says "Hi".
Quote from: Buck87 on February 05, 2017, 08:15:49 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 04, 2017, 11:31:49 PM
I don't think most states sign the ends of highways. The first time I ever saw the practice was in West Virginia. To me it seems to be the exception rather than the norm. Kentucky doesn't, and neither do our neighbors Virginia, Tennessee or Missouri. I don't think Illinois does it consistently. Indiana, Ohio and West Virginia are the only neighboring states that do it on a statewide basis.
Interesting, I'm so used to seeing them I never would have thought of it as being something that's somewhat rare. Ohio does do a good job posting route end signs, though I didn't notice the other day that there isn't one at US 250's end at US 6 in Sandusky.
There USED to be...
Quote from: thenetwork on February 07, 2017, 07:34:15 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 04, 2017, 11:31:49 PM
I don't think most states sign the ends of highways. Indiana, Ohio and West Virginia are the only neighboring states that do it on a statewide basis.
Michigan says "Hi".
TIL Michigan touches Kentucky
New Jersey was one of them, but got better in the late 1990's at it. However in some places they still suck at signing like for NJ 27 on US 22, and even NJ 27 from NJ 21. I have not been to Wildwood in a long time, but I will guess NJ 47 is not signed from the main N-S thoroughfares.
Although, not a state, but DC had been in the department of scarce to none for its three US routes for a while. I even heard some shields were removed and never replaced with new ones including that erroneous Interstate US 50 shields on NW 14th Street near the Washington Mall that used to direct motorists on NB US 1 to US 50 West being no direct left turns allowed at Constitution Avenue.
Quote from: thenetwork on February 07, 2017, 07:35:07 PM
Quote from: Buck87 on February 05, 2017, 08:15:49 PM
Interesting, I'm so used to seeing them I never would have thought of it as being something that's somewhat rare. Ohio does do a good job posting route end signs, though I didn't notice the other day that there isn't one at US 250's end at US 6 in Sandusky.
There USED to be...
That intersection was recently redone as part of the overall US 250 project in Sandusky and Perkins Township, and now has new signals and signage.
Of the three Pacific Coast (non-AK) states, the most consistent and well-placed signage would have to be in Washington. Junctions, even in urban areas, have readily visible trailblazers that seem to be always in good condition. Oregon's in 2nd place; while rural signage is still quite good (I'd give it a B+), urban signage tends to be spotty (e.g., US 26 from the Ross Island Bridge to the tunnels). ODOT doesn't seem to be terribly interested in maintaining through routes in the PDX area -- an attitude echoed by Portland itself.
California is positioning itself as the Atlanta Falcons of the world of state signage -- they came out strong in the beginning, but started their downslide in the '90's, and seemed to lose interest in anything they couldn't put on a freeway BGS after the turn of the century. I'm sure money (or the lack thereof) has a lot to do with it; signage is likely well down Caltrans' priority list, and enforcing post-relinquishment continuity requirements is even closer to the bottom of that list. The bottom line is -- just make sure your GPS is working properly when in CA! :eyebrow:
Quote from: thenetwork on February 07, 2017, 07:34:15 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 04, 2017, 11:31:49 PM
I don't think most states sign the ends of highways. Indiana, Ohio and West Virginia are the only neighboring states that do it on a statewide basis.
Michigan says "Hi".
You should cut out the second sentence in your quote of HB. You're replying to sentence one, but syntax suggests that you're replying to sentence two (and suggesting that Michigan neighbours Kentucky).
Quote from: thenetwork on February 07, 2017, 07:35:07 PM
Quote from: Buck87 on February 05, 2017, 08:15:49 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 04, 2017, 11:31:49 PM
I don't think most states sign the ends of highways. The first time I ever saw the practice was in West Virginia. To me it seems to be the exception rather than the norm. Kentucky doesn't, and neither do our neighbors Virginia, Tennessee or Missouri. I don't think Illinois does it consistently. Indiana, Ohio and West Virginia are the only neighboring states that do it on a statewide basis.
Interesting, I'm so used to seeing them I never would have thought of it as being something that's somewhat rare. Ohio does do a good job posting route end signs, though I didn't notice the other day that there isn't one at US 250's end at US 6 in Sandusky.
There USED to be...
I took this photo almost exactly a year ago -- it's gone now?!
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F8xnrsmX.jpg&hash=e777f3c538715f21f0f405657bdee7ac8fa73004)
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on February 04, 2017, 01:23:44 AM
Quote from: Big John on February 03, 2017, 10:52:16 PM
More OK:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.static.flickr.com%2F2463%2F3685492495_d8ffb0a342_z.jpg&hash=3934d0400c3f1c629db47f0aea072a24ab8c4021)
now how the fuck do you do that?
Sounds like
someone hasn't been to Craig County. :P
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/US_69_Craig_Co.jpg)
Quote from: wanderer2575 on February 08, 2017, 02:11:44 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on February 07, 2017, 07:35:07 PM
Quote from: Buck87 on February 05, 2017, 08:15:49 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 04, 2017, 11:31:49 PM
I don't think most states sign the ends of highways. The first time I ever saw the practice was in West Virginia. To me it seems to be the exception rather than the norm. Kentucky doesn't, and neither do our neighbors Virginia, Tennessee or Missouri. I don't think Illinois does it consistently. Indiana, Ohio and West Virginia are the only neighboring states that do it on a statewide basis.
Interesting, I'm so used to seeing them I never would have thought of it as being something that's somewhat rare. Ohio does do a good job posting route end signs, though I didn't notice the other day that there isn't one at US 250's end at US 6 in Sandusky.
There USED to be...
I took this photo almost exactly a year ago -- it's gone now?!
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F8xnrsmX.jpg&hash=e777f3c538715f21f0f405657bdee7ac8fa73004)
Yeah, it's gone now...
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170208/5ba8c0415eae3745a009d211d3a9c12c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170208/b79588394fe964208bafd188d6e1024f.jpg)
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 08, 2017, 04:13:07 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on February 04, 2017, 01:23:44 AM
Quote from: Big John on February 03, 2017, 10:52:16 PM
More OK:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.static.flickr.com%2F2463%2F3685492495_d8ffb0a342_z.jpg&hash=3934d0400c3f1c629db47f0aea072a24ab8c4021)
now how the fuck do you do that?
Sounds like someone hasn't been to Craig County. :P
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/US_69_Craig_Co.jpg)
Apparently the sign for Mayes County (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.5102182,-95.2419974,3a,25.1y,268.73h,80.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smDaCi50OPjfW77qjekuzrA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) isn't much better.
Unlike most states that say "END route", Michigan uses "ENDS" and places it below the route number - here is one from GSV
https://www.google.com/maps/@46.1022747,-85.5715443,3a,15y,206.17h,86.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szFwPIZ2mZ1aP1aT533Vk5Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.1022747,-85.5715443,3a,15y,206.17h,86.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szFwPIZ2mZ1aP1aT533Vk5Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en)
Quote from: frankenroad on February 08, 2017, 03:23:40 PM
Unlike most states that say "END route", Michigan uses "ENDS" and places it below the route number - here is one from GSV
https://www.google.com/maps/@46.1022747,-85.5715443,3a,15y,206.17h,86.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szFwPIZ2mZ1aP1aT533Vk5Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.1022747,-85.5715443,3a,15y,206.17h,86.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szFwPIZ2mZ1aP1aT533Vk5Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en)
Which is somewhat more grammatical, isn't it?
There are some places in MI where a freeway route ends and merges into another freeway where the ENDS sign placement is a little sketchy - it depends on where they can fit it.
Surface street signage in Detroit is pretty hit and miss. That applies to reassurance markers as well as turns and ends. (It doesn't help that the endpoints in Detroit change every few years.) Nobody knows the highway numbers anyway. You take Grand River Avenue, not M-5.
Quote from: GaryV on February 08, 2017, 04:48:06 PM
Quote from: frankenroad on February 08, 2017, 03:23:40 PM
Unlike most states that say "END route", Michigan uses "ENDS" and places it below the route number - here is one from GSV
https://www.google.com/maps/@46.1022747,-85.5715443,3a,15y,206.17h,86.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szFwPIZ2mZ1aP1aT533Vk5Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.1022747,-85.5715443,3a,15y,206.17h,86.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szFwPIZ2mZ1aP1aT533Vk5Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en)
Which is somewhat more grammatical, isn't it?
Not only grammatically more correct, but also more correct in terms of placement relative to the shield (at least the way I see it). Information related to the cardinal direction you're travelling on a highway goes above. Information related to the physical movement of a highway at a particular point goes below. IMO, when a highway number physically comes to a halt, the "END" plaque should take the place of the directional arrows below the shield, not the cardinal direction. Obviously, decades of practice by the MUTCD dictate otherwise, but to me, Michigan's approach makes a lot more sense.
Possibly unrelated but interesting nonetheless, Washington very seldom places "END" markers, but the ones they do sometimes raise the initial cap so that it looks like "E
ND". I was pretty sure the raising of the initial cap was limited to cardinal directions? Who knows. I've seen this both where 99 becomes 599, and Hwy 7 becomes I-705.
Quote from: jakeroot on February 08, 2017, 07:15:46 PM
Possibly unrelated but interesting nonetheless, Washington very seldom places "END" markers, but the ones they do sometimes raise the initial cap so that it looks like "END". I was pretty sure the raising of the initial cap was limited to cardinal directions? Who knows. I've seen this both where 99 becomes 599, and Hwy 7 becomes I-705.
MUTCD limits it to cardinal directions. M4-6 has all letters in END in the same height.
Quote from: Buck87 on February 08, 2017, 01:57:19 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on February 08, 2017, 02:11:44 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on February 07, 2017, 07:35:07 PM
Quote from: Buck87 on February 05, 2017, 08:15:49 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 04, 2017, 11:31:49 PM
I don't think most states sign the ends of highways. The first time I ever saw the practice was in West Virginia. To me it seems to be the exception rather than the norm. Kentucky doesn't, and neither do our neighbors Virginia, Tennessee or Missouri. I don't think Illinois does it consistently. Indiana, Ohio and West Virginia are the only neighboring states that do it on a statewide basis.
Interesting, I'm so used to seeing them I never would have thought of it as being something that's somewhat rare. Ohio does do a good job posting route end signs, though I didn't notice the other day that there isn't one at US 250's end at US 6 in Sandusky.
There USED to be...
I took this photo almost exactly a year ago -- it's gone now?!
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F8xnrsmX.jpg&hash=e777f3c538715f21f0f405657bdee7ac8fa73004)
Yeah, it's gone now...
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170208/5ba8c0415eae3745a009d211d3a9c12c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170208/b79588394fe964208bafd188d6e1024f.jpg)
That Cedar Point sign is endangered as well -- They have uneiled a new logo for 2017.
Quote from: jakeroot on February 08, 2017, 07:15:46 PM
Quote from: GaryV on February 08, 2017, 04:48:06 PM
Quote from: frankenroad on February 08, 2017, 03:23:40 PM
Unlike most states that say "END route", Michigan uses "ENDS" and places it below the route number - here is one from GSV
https://www.google.com/maps/@46.1022747,-85.5715443,3a,15y,206.17h,86.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szFwPIZ2mZ1aP1aT533Vk5Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en (https://www.google.com/maps/@46.1022747,-85.5715443,3a,15y,206.17h,86.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szFwPIZ2mZ1aP1aT533Vk5Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en)
Which is somewhat more grammatical, isn't it?
Not only grammatically more correct, but also more correct in terms of placement relative to the shield (at least the way I see it). Information related to the cardinal direction you're travelling on a highway goes above. Information related to the physical movement of a highway at a particular point goes below. IMO, when a highway number physically comes to a halt, the "END" plaque should take the place of the directional arrows below the shield, not the cardinal direction. Obviously, decades of practice by the MUTCD dictate otherwise, but to me, Michigan's approach makes a lot more sense.
Unfortunately, placement of the ENDS banner hasn't been consistent. There are many installations like this:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FMTJ2vWO.jpg&hash=4592096c9f3a5ef4021a7d72ae7ffbdf5ad4beb1)
And Michigan moved to the national standard when Clearview came in -- shield assemblies now use END instead of ENDS. Sometimes above and sometimes below. (Michigan also eliminated underlining the cardinal direction of routes on BGSs, and it was a sad day when that happened.)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FWyrjIHH.jpg&hash=2b42a8faa947f26be16921d4048e5192c94f432d)
Did anyone bring up Massachusetts? Although I do have nostalgia for the "--9-->" type SGSes, the fact of the matter the SGSes are much worse than sign salads where you have multiple routes come together at even the simplest of intersections. Can be very hard to determine even where the current route you're on goes.
MA's also not the best at signing concurrencies. Take this for example: https://goo.gl/maps/41qWzrcxj412. I suppose we should be grateful that both routes are shown, at least.
Or, questionable concurrencies: https://goo.gl/maps/bo7gubZPMWF2. Wait...MA 141 is with MA 116 here? Where's the sign for the junction between the two, then? Where'd MA 141 go?: https://goo.gl/maps/KZw1Jvq6nPB2? There's a junction with it ahead? Where's the signage?! Lack of signage in Holyoke for US 202 as well is getting worse and worse.
Anyway, I love the Bay State, but can't stand it when I can't follow routes due to bad signage.
Massachusetts was overshadowed by its neighbor to the south. The lack of state line signs at many crossings is quite striking as well.
Quote from: cl94 on February 08, 2017, 10:35:02 PM
Massachusetts was overshadowed by its neighbor to the south. The lack of state line signs at many Connecticut crossings is quite striking as well.
Three pages of posts and no one mentioned New Mexico? Absolutely terrible for posting state and U.S. highway route turns and junctions. Now, I have no issue with the fact that NM for the most part doesn't post U.S. concurrencies on Interstates; rather, I'm talking about situations like U.S. 84-285 turning at the junction with NM-68 in Española and having virtually no advance notice.
The one time I did any degree of traveling in New Mexico, I encountered the junction of NM 406 and NM 410, which is a T junction where NM 406 turns right and 410 begins to the left. The signage approaching the intersection had NM 410 and 406 shields, all right, but there were no arrows underneath them. I had to guess that 406 turned right because the 406 shield was on the right.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 09, 2017, 03:01:12 AM
The one time I did any degree of traveling in New Mexico, I encountered the junction of NM 406 and NM 410, which is a T junction where NM 406 turns right and 410 begins to the left. The signage approaching the intersection had NM 410 and 406 shields, all right, but there were no arrows underneath them. I had to guess that 406 turned right because the 406 shield was on the right.
New Mexico gets pretty wonky signage wise on anything that might be considered a "secondary" road by most. The problem is that they literally have so many signed routes out in the sticks that a lot of them have extremely old or cheap signage.
Florida, in one way, is bad about signing. They are inconsistent at times as you will see each intersection, though signing the routes good, are all different with shield placements. For example, Palm Beach County signs intersections like NYSDOT does with the mileage number next the to control destination and no post junction mileage signs like the rest of Florida has. In fact FDOT D4 only uses mileage signs for distances on routes on I-95 and a handful on US 1 that were carbon copied from when South Florida had rural areas between the cities that US 1 transited.
In fact if an overhead shield assembly is removed due to age or failing safety inspections, count on it to never be replaced unless they have a major road widening or construction project that will include overhead signing within the scope of the project. Even inconsistency occurs when different contractors or phases of a road being built happens hence JYP in Orlando at FL 528. John Young Parkway was first opened north of 528 before it was opened south of it. So the interchange has overhead signs for the interchange southbound on JYP, but none going NB. Even with the HOT lane construction on FL 528 that is going to replace the current overhead there southbound on JYP as new foundations with bolts out of them are present at the sign's location. No bolts and foundation are dug as of yet going NB where overheads are in dyer need there.
Florida likes to ad lib and has no set way anymore to how an intersection is to be signed, although they do manage to at least let you know the direction of the junctioning route in one form or the other. Then of course there is FL 39 that is totally confusing since they realigned FL 39 or did they not. North of I-4 it is signed on the new Alexander Street while south of I-4 it is still signed on Wheeler, US 92, and Collins. Plus I-4 signs FL 39 on Alexander and has Wheeler signed as CR 39. FL 39A is still signed as a route on Alexander south of I-4 where it had been a preexisting city street of Plant City and coming into Plant City on FL 39 you are even defaulted onto the new Alexander Street.
Big goof on FDOT when they decided to realign FL 39 as they totally forgot that the old part of it south of I-4 needed to be resigned so now you get directed southbound to use the new Alexander Street onto FL 39A, while NB you still follow the route it always took. Sort of like US 11 in Watertown, NY where US 11 is signed on two completely different alignments depending on which way you travel, although I think that one was done by NYSDOT on purpose for traffic control, but here its two different projects and no communication between engineers.
Quote from: roadman65 on February 11, 2017, 08:57:39 AM
Big goof on FDOT when they decided to realign FL 39 as they totally forgot that the old part of it south of I-4 needed to be resigned so now you get directed southbound to use the new Alexander Street onto FL 39A, while NB you still follow the route it always took. Sort of like US 11 in Watertown, NY where US 11 is signed on two completely different alignments depending on which way you travel, although I think that one was done by NYSDOT on purpose for traffic control, but here its two different projects and no communication between engineers.
Virginia, when they move a U.S. route or state primary system route outside of a municipality for purposes of bypassing the place, will often leave the old route as a bannered Business route.
But they often leave the old signs intact without putting up new Business banners.
Some (most?) of this is probably the fault of the city or town in question, as the roads within the corporate limits of the municipality are normally maintained by the municipal government, not VDOT (there are some exceptions for small towns).
Maryland can also be guilty. When MD-5 in Charles County was re-routed onto a bypass route, the old route of MD-5 through the commercial sprawl of Waldorf was supposed to be signed as Business MD-5. But the part of Business MD-5 that follows U.S. 301 is not signed well at all, and the part that was once MD-5 (and is now Business MD-5) is not signed adequately where it turns away from U.S. 301 either.
Quote from: Rothman on February 08, 2017, 10:33:34 PMI love the Bay State, but can't stand it when I can't follow routes due to bad signage.
A few years back MassDOT contracted a firm (which, mercifully, we will not name here) to work on state route shields in the city of Boston...adding new ones where necessary and replacing worn out ones. To their everlasting regret, they completely botched the job. There were multiple instances of posting the wrong routes in the wrong places, posting incorrect cardinal directions and turns, and in at least one instance placing a state route shield on a street which was not a state route. It has always been extremely difficult to follow state routes through Boston, but this didn't help.
As I recall MassDOT made the contractor correct all the mistakes at the contractor's expense, but I have to wonder where the oversight/double-checking process broke down.
Quote from: SidS1045 on February 11, 2017, 02:38:19 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 08, 2017, 10:33:34 PMI love the Bay State, but can't stand it when I can't follow routes due to bad signage.
A few years back MassDOT contracted a firm (which, mercifully, we will not name here) to work on state route shields in the city of Boston...adding new ones where necessary and replacing worn out ones. To their everlasting regret, they completely botched the job. There were multiple instances of posting the wrong routes in the wrong places, posting incorrect cardinal directions and turns, and in at least one instance placing a state route shield on a street which was not a state route. It has always been extremely difficult to follow state routes through Boston, but this didn't help.
As I recall MassDOT made the contractor correct all the mistakes at the contractor's expense, but I have to wonder where the oversight/double-checking process broke down.
Here's a prime example of 2013 sign mess with MA 2A signed the wrong directions where it is not 2A south of Comm. Ave. This is Tremont Street approaching Mass Ave. in September 2013:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.malmeroads.net%2Fmass21c%2Fma2Amassave3.jpg&hash=d2907654eb27ceace0b40e075e11c2d7443eba22)
East is actually to the left and West to the right.
This is the only 2A sign left from the contract, heading west on Mass Ave beyond Huntington Ave, the East banner replaced with a To in 2014:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.malmeroads.net%2Fmass21c%2Fma2amassavefix2.jpg&hash=e4f4428d05c470ec9b25d51b33808509c6462aba)
Quote from: frankenroad on February 08, 2017, 03:23:40 PM
Unlike most states that say "END route", Michigan uses "ENDS" and places it below the route number
Actually I think it's better. To each his own. ;-)
Quote from: SidS1045 on February 11, 2017, 02:38:19 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 08, 2017, 10:33:34 PMI love the Bay State, but can't stand it when I can't follow routes due to bad signage.
A few years back MassDOT contracted a firm (which, mercifully, we will not name here) to work on state route shields in the city of Boston...adding new ones where necessary and replacing worn out ones. To their everlasting regret, they completely botched the job. There were multiple instances of posting the wrong routes in the wrong places, posting incorrect cardinal directions and turns, and in at least one instance placing a state route shield on a street which was not a state route. It has always been extremely difficult to follow state routes through Boston, but this didn't help.
As I recall MassDOT made the contractor correct all the mistakes at the contractor's expense, but I have to wonder where the oversight/double-checking process broke down.
Yeah, tell me about it. See this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_State_Highway_System#/media/File:Boston-worboys-sign.jpg This is an old sign erected by the city back between 1969 and 1972 when the C-routes still existed! As of 2008, the sign was still there. Since then it was mercifully taken out to pasture and shot!
Back in the 90s IIRC, someone put up two Alabama route markers for Mass. 10 and Mass. 141 in Easthampton and apparently around 2009 they were replaced (http://www.wsfa.com/Global/story.asp?S=3642053&nav=0RdDcgc4)--but not properly! :pan:
Another state that sucks is Louisiana. Half the time their route markers are not posted, or only very discreetly so, especially in the New Orleans area. Here is an example (https://www.google.com/maps/@29.9996063,-90.1169392,3a,75y,101.3h,83.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIY7LzXzwllGdJ6R9T5qccw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
Quote from: bob7374 on February 11, 2017, 04:57:03 PM
Quote from: SidS1045 on February 11, 2017, 02:38:19 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 08, 2017, 10:33:34 PMI love the Bay State, but can't stand it when I can't follow routes due to bad signage.
A few years back MassDOT contracted a firm (which, mercifully, we will not name here) to work on state route shields in the city of Boston...adding new ones where necessary and replacing worn out ones. To their everlasting regret, they completely botched the job. There were multiple instances of posting the wrong routes in the wrong places, posting incorrect cardinal directions and turns, and in at least one instance placing a state route shield on a street which was not a state route. It has always been extremely difficult to follow state routes through Boston, but this didn't help.
As I recall MassDOT made the contractor correct all the mistakes at the contractor's expense, but I have to wonder where the oversight/double-checking process broke down.
Here's a prime example of 2013 sign mess with MA 2A signed the wrong directions where it is not 2A south of Comm. Ave. This is Tremont Street approaching Mass Ave. in September 2013:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.malmeroads.net%2Fmass21c%2Fma2Amassave3.jpg&hash=d2907654eb27ceace0b40e075e11c2d7443eba22)
East is actually to the left and West to the right.
This is the only 2A sign left from the contract, heading west on Mass Ave beyond Huntington Ave, the East banner replaced with a To in 2014:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.malmeroads.net%2Fmass21c%2Fma2amassavefix2.jpg&hash=e4f4428d05c470ec9b25d51b33808509c6462aba)
Although MassDOT District 6 crews corrected some signs for the City when they were discovered to be in error, note that this was not a MassDOT project, but the City of Boston. In Massachusetts, many sections of US and state numbered routes actually fall under local jurisdiction for maintenance, including SGS panels and route marker assemblies. As for the cause of the directional errors on the signs, apparently Boston's design consultant had the orientation of the plans 180 degrees opposite of what it should have been.
From the "Erroneous Signs" thread:
Quote from: 1 on February 12, 2017, 10:51:23 AM
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on February 12, 2017, 10:46:11 AM
Quote from: cjk374 on December 17, 2016, 05:28:53 PM
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/1/416/31669561426_712caaaa26_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/QfwMg9)20161217_142915 (https://flic.kr/p/QfwMg9) by Jess Kilgore (https://www.flickr.com/photos/130771900@N08/), on Flickr
Only possible if you are Dr. Who travelling in the TARDIS.
What is erroneous about this sign? :hmmm: Either there's nothing wrong or I'm missing something. :pan:
US 167 goes both straight and right. US 167 North does not.
Even worse...167 north goes to the right. Southbound 167 is at the next signal running to the left, which is also where US 80 west turns to join US 167 thru downtown Ruston. LA 146 runs concurrent with US 167 through this intersection northbound & thru the next intersection southbound. The previous assembly had no directional banners.
This is one of many fine examples of how Louisiana sucks big time at signing routes. :banghead:
The problem with CT is until recently they don't ever use mile markers.
Quote from: RobbieL2415 on February 13, 2017, 11:52:00 PM
The problem with CT is until recently they don't ever use mile markers.
Several states don't use mile marker (AR, MS & MO come to mind). Louisiana does, but only replaces them every several years...just to watch them disappear or get mowed over again. (sans the interstates. They do a good job maintaining those)
Unless they do this:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/255/19144747938_677a08a889.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/vaKQz1)20150701_073437 (https://flic.kr/p/vaKQz1) by Jess Kilgore (https://www.flickr.com/photos/130771900@N08/), on Flickr
This is on I-220 in Bossier City. AFAIK, this is the only mile marker I have seen with the wrong shield on interstates 12, 20, 59, & 220. Don't know about the others.
does nevada sign any of their state roads?
Quote from: silverback1065 on February 16, 2017, 07:58:07 AM
does nevada sign any of their state roads?
Extensively, and they even have specific numbers for; primary, secondary, and urban. NDOT even tries to lump similar numbers into areas, really all of it is quite good.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 16, 2017, 10:32:57 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on February 16, 2017, 07:58:07 AM
does nevada sign any of their state roads?
Extensively, and they even have specific numbers for; primary, secondary, and urban. NDOT even tries to lump similar numbers into areas, really all of it is quite good.
So it's just the urban areas that are badly signed?
Quote from: silverback1065 on February 16, 2017, 10:35:28 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 16, 2017, 10:32:57 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on February 16, 2017, 07:58:07 AM
does nevada sign any of their state roads?
Extensively, and they even have specific numbers for; primary, secondary, and urban. NDOT even tries to lump similar numbers into areas, really all of it is quite good.
So it's just the urban areas that are badly signed?
Have any specific instances? I've found the signage to be adequate aside from maybe some stuff in Vegas that may or may not have been relinquished.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 16, 2017, 10:37:17 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on February 16, 2017, 10:35:28 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 16, 2017, 10:32:57 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on February 16, 2017, 07:58:07 AM
does nevada sign any of their state roads?
Extensively, and they even have specific numbers for; primary, secondary, and urban. NDOT even tries to lump similar numbers into areas, really all of it is quite good.
So it's just the urban areas that are badly signed?
Have any specific instances? I've found the signage to be adequate aside from maybe some stuff in Vegas that may or may not have been relinquished.
I was just curious, it didn't look like Vegas was signed well, but I guess I wasn't looking in the right places. Is las Vegas Blvd still a state road?
Quote from: silverback1065 on February 16, 2017, 10:42:00 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 16, 2017, 10:37:17 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on February 16, 2017, 10:35:28 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 16, 2017, 10:32:57 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on February 16, 2017, 07:58:07 AM
does nevada sign any of their state roads?
Extensively, and they even have specific numbers for; primary, secondary, and urban. NDOT even tries to lump similar numbers into areas, really all of it is quite good.
So it's just the urban areas that are badly signed?
Have any specific instances? I've found the signage to be adequate aside from maybe some stuff in Vegas that may or may not have been relinquished.
I was just curious, it didn't look like Vegas was signed well, but I guess I wasn't looking in the right places. Is las Vegas Blvd still a state road?
It can get choppy, but I've only really seen it like that in Vegas. I think a lot of it has to do with reliquishment, Las Vegas Blvd for example is only part of State Route 604 for about 12 miles.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 16, 2017, 10:44:35 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on February 16, 2017, 10:42:00 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 16, 2017, 10:37:17 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on February 16, 2017, 10:35:28 AM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 16, 2017, 10:32:57 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on February 16, 2017, 07:58:07 AM
does nevada sign any of their state roads?
Extensively, and they even have specific numbers for; primary, secondary, and urban. NDOT even tries to lump similar numbers into areas, really all of it is quite good.
So it's just the urban areas that are badly signed?
Have any specific instances? I've found the signage to be adequate aside from maybe some stuff in Vegas that may or may not have been relinquished.
I was just curious, it didn't look like Vegas was signed well, but I guess I wasn't looking in the right places. Is las Vegas Blvd still a state road?
It can get choppy, but I've only really seen it like that in Vegas. I think a lot of it has to do with reliquishment, Las Vegas Blvd for example is only part of State Route 604 for about 12 miles.
NDOT usually very good about signing most of its highways. At minimum, the beginning and end points of practically all state highways are signed (with exception of some routes in the secondary tier [700-800 series numbers], especially the shorter and urban routes). Junctions are usually signed as well in the rural areas (again, with exception of some routes in the secondary tier).
However, reassurance and junction signage is often lacking along urban routes [500-600 series numbers]. Urban state route shields are typically omitted from BGSs along freeways as well–in fact, most state route shields are omitted from urban freeway signage unless the route actually extends some distance outside the urban area.
Las Vegas Blvd is only partially SR 604, due to relinquishments. Virtually none of the state-maintained part of LV Blvd lies along the Strip portion. There is a small segment bounding the intersection of Tropicana Avenue, which I believe is due to NDOT still maintaining the pedestrian bridges at this intersection (NDOT is currently updating/modernizing the pedestrian bridges and will turn them over to the county–I imagine this segment of LV Blvd will be relinquished soon after). Other than that, the main segment of SR 604 begins well north of downtown Las Vegas–probably once it crosses into North Las Vegas and points north all the way to Apex.
Prior to the Clearview era, MDOT SHA's signage failures generally consisted of missing trailblazers, missing BEGIN/END route markers, missing BEGIN/END STATE MAINTENANCE markers, and having at least three different, yet ugly designs for trailblazers and route markers on BGSes. Once Clearview came along, you could add hilariously awful kerning, weird letter spacing, really weird letter sizing, inconsistent margins, weird InterCaps usage, weird temporary signage when a BGS gantry comes down, and some really weird mile marker totems (Exhibit A: MD 200!).
Here are scenes from Atlanta, GA and one from NC to show the contrast.
Atlanta ranks as one of the fastest growing cities post the Great Recession.
Literally tens of billions of dollars of new private development, company HQs, and high rises going up in every direction.
The tax revenue has to be increasing by several million dollars per month or quarter.
Meanwhile, basic maintenance by City of Atlanta and GDOT is at an all-time low.
Georgia can't even be bothered to replace faded tiny lane signs, and look at how they place them:
These faded, peeling signs weren't replaced despite being at ground zero of a major flyover addition project recently completed.
Then they cluster and overlap the lane signs, thus serving no purpose whatsoever.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi174.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw102%2Farchitect77%2FSidneyMarcus_zpszmr9p1w9.jpg&hash=c1cc4d993bfe98a24125e1e73a304bf3f8ba73f0) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/architect77/media/SidneyMarcus_zpszmr9p1w9.jpg.html)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi174.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw102%2Farchitect77%2FBufordHwyLenox_and%2520Monroe%2520signs_zps27cw3avy.jpg&hash=4ed0941c9041145b213a96eeb38b70bcdf37a818) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/architect77/media/BufordHwyLenox_and%20Monroe%20signs_zps27cw3avy.jpg.html)
Just 2 miles from the GDOT district office:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi174.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw102%2Farchitect77%2FChambleeTuckerLaneSigns_zpsj8n1jxd5.jpg&hash=d08c8ac19ee9519f4846d63b363213cecd42599d) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/architect77/media/ChambleeTuckerLaneSigns_zpsj8n1jxd5.jpg.html)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi174.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw102%2Farchitect77%2FPtreeIndAccessRds_zpstlobj00k.jpg&hash=60013e1ee48d215cfd5482f193df3e528805f46a) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/architect77/media/PtreeIndAccessRds_zpstlobj00k.jpg.html)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi174.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw102%2Farchitect77%2FNCSignage_GAsubpar_zpswzleh07c.jpg&hash=dc99a66839ab96695dd467672083c203ebde68a0) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/architect77/media/NCSignage_GAsubpar_zpswzleh07c.jpg.html)
How as Rhode Island not been mentioned yet?
They fail every possible signing quality standard. Routes are signed horribly inconsistently, both in urban and rural areas. Many junctions lack any signage at all. The quality of the signs themselves, physically, look cheap and flimsy. The typefaces are all over place. BGSs are almost never replaced, with damaged ones replaced by tiny LGSs that are way too small for the road speeds.
Quote from: architect77 on February 28, 2017, 08:28:59 PM
Here are scenes from Atlanta, GA and one from NC to show the contrast.
Atlanta ranks as one of the fastest growing cities post the Great Recession.
Literally tens of billions of dollars of new private development, company HQs, and high rises going up in every direction.
The tax revenue has to be increasing by several million dollars per month or quarter.
Meanwhile, basic maintenance by City of Atlanta and GDOT is at an all-time low.
Georgia can't even be bothered to replace faded tiny lane signs, and look at how they place them:
These faded, peeling signs weren't replaced despite being at ground zero of a major flyover addition project recently completed.
Then they cluster and overlap the lane signs, thus serving no purpose whatsoever.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi174.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw102%2Farchitect77%2FSidneyMarcus_zpszmr9p1w9.jpg&hash=c1cc4d993bfe98a24125e1e73a304bf3f8ba73f0) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/architect77/media/SidneyMarcus_zpszmr9p1w9.jpg.html)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi174.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw102%2Farchitect77%2FBufordHwyLenox_and%2520Monroe%2520signs_zps27cw3avy.jpg&hash=4ed0941c9041145b213a96eeb38b70bcdf37a818) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/architect77/media/BufordHwyLenox_and%20Monroe%20signs_zps27cw3avy.jpg.html)
Just 2 miles from the GDOT district office:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi174.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw102%2Farchitect77%2FChambleeTuckerLaneSigns_zpsj8n1jxd5.jpg&hash=d08c8ac19ee9519f4846d63b363213cecd42599d) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/architect77/media/ChambleeTuckerLaneSigns_zpsj8n1jxd5.jpg.html)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi174.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw102%2Farchitect77%2FPtreeIndAccessRds_zpstlobj00k.jpg&hash=60013e1ee48d215cfd5482f193df3e528805f46a) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/architect77/media/PtreeIndAccessRds_zpstlobj00k.jpg.html)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi174.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw102%2Farchitect77%2FNCSignage_GAsubpar_zpswzleh07c.jpg&hash=dc99a66839ab96695dd467672083c203ebde68a0) (http://s174.photobucket.com/user/architect77/media/NCSignage_GAsubpar_zpswzleh07c.jpg.html)
Away from metro Atlanta, one thing that annoys me about Georgia is that there's no signage consistency with "business," "bypass," "connector" or "truck" routes.
Quote from: EdM on February 11, 2017, 05:36:29 PM
Another state that sucks is Louisiana. Half the time their route markers are not posted, or only very discreetly so, especially in the New Orleans area. Here is an example (https://www.google.com/maps/@29.9996063,-90.1169392,3a,75y,101.3h,83.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIY7LzXzwllGdJ6R9T5qccw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).
Louisiana has a major problem with consistency. Just browse collections of shields to see. We also have problems with peeling numbers on the shields.
Clearview generally improved the quality of our signage, once we figured to how to use it. Even the "improper use" signs that people loved to hate on this forum didn't look nearly as bad as the haters claim. But by the time, they finally figured out how to make good signs with Clearview, the idiots in Washington revoked it and the idiots in Baton Rouge followed suit. Now they're cranking out ugly mixed-case Highway Gothic on the smaller signs.
Quote from: jbnv on March 06, 2017, 12:25:21 PM
Clearview generally improved the quality of our signage, once we figured to how to use it. Even the "improper use" signs that people loved to hate on this forum didn't look nearly as bad as the haters claim. But by the time, they finally figured out how to make good signs with Clearview, the idiots in Washington revoked it and the idiots in Baton Rouge followed suit. Now they're cranking out ugly mixed-case Highway Gothic on the smaller signs.
Kentucky and Virginia both traditionally used upper case on signs listing town names on its non-interstates and parkways. But mixed case is now in the MUTCD and both states suddenly have a love affair with that provision of the MUTCD while ignoring other parts.
Quote from: Buck87 on February 08, 2017, 01:57:19 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on February 08, 2017, 02:11:44 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on February 07, 2017, 07:35:07 PM
Quote from: Buck87 on February 05, 2017, 08:15:49 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 04, 2017, 11:31:49 PM
I don't think most states sign the ends of highways. The first time I ever saw the practice was in West Virginia. To me it seems to be the exception rather than the norm. Kentucky doesn't, and neither do our neighbors Virginia, Tennessee or Missouri. I don't think Illinois does it consistently. Indiana, Ohio and West Virginia are the only neighboring states that do it on a statewide basis.
Interesting, I'm so used to seeing them I never would have thought of it as being something that's somewhat rare. Ohio does do a good job posting route end signs, though I didn't notice the other day that there isn't one at US 250's end at US 6 in Sandusky.
There USED to be...
I took this photo almost exactly a year ago -- it's gone now?!
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F8xnrsmX.jpg&hash=e777f3c538715f21f0f405657bdee7ac8fa73004)
Yeah, it's gone now...
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170208/5ba8c0415eae3745a009d211d3a9c12c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170208/b79588394fe964208bafd188d6e1024f.jpg)
Update on US 250 in Sandusky, they have now installed a new "END" sign at its intersection at US 6 (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170413/98d958ad5f0f09755b1a649dbd837c6f.jpg)
VS986
Quote from: TheOneKEA on February 20, 2017, 10:12:10 PM
and some really weird mile marker totems (Exhibit A: MD 200!).
The mileposts along MD-200 (ICC) are consistent with the federal MUTCD (but not the state supplement, which strikes mileposts every 1/10th of a mile) and with the way that most other Maryland toll roads and toll crossings are posted.
Quote from: Buck87 on April 13, 2017, 12:08:22 PM
Quote from: Buck87 on February 08, 2017, 01:57:19 PM
Quote from: wanderer2575 on February 08, 2017, 02:11:44 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on February 07, 2017, 07:35:07 PM
Quote from: Buck87 on February 05, 2017, 08:15:49 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on February 04, 2017, 11:31:49 PM
I don't think most states sign the ends of highways. The first time I ever saw the practice was in West Virginia. To me it seems to be the exception rather than the norm. Kentucky doesn't, and neither do our neighbors Virginia, Tennessee or Missouri. I don't think Illinois does it consistently. Indiana, Ohio and West Virginia are the only neighboring states that do it on a statewide basis.
Interesting, I'm so used to seeing them I never would have thought of it as being something that's somewhat rare. Ohio does do a good job posting route end signs, though I didn't notice the other day that there isn't one at US 250's end at US 6 in Sandusky.
There USED to be...
I took this photo almost exactly a year ago -- it's gone now?!
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F8xnrsmX.jpg&hash=e777f3c538715f21f0f405657bdee7ac8fa73004)
Yeah, it's gone now...
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170208/5ba8c0415eae3745a009d211d3a9c12c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170208/b79588394fe964208bafd188d6e1024f.jpg)
Update on US 250 in Sandusky, they have now installed a new "END" sign at its intersection at US 6 (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170413/98d958ad5f0f09755b1a649dbd837c6f.jpg)
VS986
That "END US 250" sign warms my heart.