In a few weeks, I'll be departing Tampa and moving back to the Keystone State. As part of the move, I'll be renting a box truck to transport my belongings, but my townhouse's meager 23-foot driveway won't accommodate the rental truck, which will be at least 31 feet in length.
Within my small townhouse community, the HOA has a strict "no street parking" rule, but since the street that runs through the community is 22 feet curb-to-curb, there wouldn't be space to park streetside, anyway.
Just outside the community's entrance, a short section (about 180 feet) of the local public road is three lanes wide but carries only two; the third unused lane space is covered in crosshatch markings. (Aside: my guess is that this unused pavement is intended to be a left turn pocket if/when the current two-lane street is "twinned" with a second carriageway.) There are no signs anywhere along this street indicating any parking restrictions and no fire hydrants or the like. Would you risk parking a truck in this space overnight?
GSV: https://goo.gl/maps/GJJcMbMKsKM2
It seems my only alternative would be to park in the driveway with roughly at least 8 feet of truck sticking out into the street–blocking nearly a full lane width. I'm not sure which is more egregious.
I'd say screw the HOA as you're obviously moving out anyway.
^ I'd say the same...were it not for their ability to assess bogus fines that I'd be less able to fight a thousand miles away.
I would call the HOA contact and ask that person what to do.
Quote from: briantroutman on March 08, 2017, 11:33:01 PM
^ I'd say the same...were it not for their ability to assess bogus fines that I'd be less able to fight a thousand miles away.
How would they enforce a fine against you once you'd moved? HOAs aren't courts of law.
Quote from: Brandon on March 08, 2017, 11:23:14 PM
I'd say screw the HOA...
I agree with this philosophy in general. I'm thankful I don't live in a county that has planning and zoning for rural areas, much less the stick-up-your-butt rules of an HOA.
Quote from: kphoger on March 09, 2017, 10:18:58 AM
I would call the HOA contact and ask that person what to do.
I would also call the local police to see whether the on-street location is in fact a legitimate place to park, and/or could you get temporary permission.
Quote from: kphoger on March 09, 2017, 10:18:58 AM
I would call the HOA contact and ask that person what to do.
That was my first thought, although then I had doubts as to whether that would be better than the "act first; ask forgiveness later" (or "act first; hope nobody notices" ) approach.
Quote from: empirestate on March 09, 2017, 10:32:58 AM
I would also call the local police to see whether the on-street location is in fact a legitimate place to park, and/or could you get temporary permission.
I thought of that, too, and I might do that. After a year, Florida's still something of a mystery to me: Since I'm not within the city limits, I assume the appropriate agency would be the county sheriff.
Then too, as with the suggestion above of contacting the HOA, past experience has taught me that most unusual questions are answered "no" . But I'm less concerned that the county would send out a busybody to cite me just because I called. The HOA on the other hand...
Quote from: hbelkins on March 09, 2017, 10:29:08 AM
How would they enforce a fine against you once you'd moved? HOAs aren't courts of law.
I agree with you in principle, but I think there's a practicality that needs to be considered here. Even if the HOA isn't within its rights to "fine" me, they can still
attempt to do so, lodge negative information on my credit report, etc. And I might be fully in the right to contest the collection attempt–and successful in doing so–but I still have to go through the rigamarole necessary to get it removed.
Along the same lines, I just wrapped up a fifteen-month-long process of getting my former health insurer in California to pay a $700 medical bill. I knew we'd have trouble with them since the clinic in question was out-of-network, but our doctor got a pre-authorization so I
should have been OK. I spent literally dozens of hours on the phone, documenting conversations, writing letters...enough that if I had been paid my typical hourly rate for that time, the total would have equaled that bill multiple times over. In the end, I "won" (the insurer finally coughed up the money they owed all along), but it was something of a pyrrhic victory.
Quote from: briantroutman on March 08, 2017, 11:13:59 PM
Within my small townhouse community, the HOA has a strict “no street parking” rule, but since the street that runs through the community is 22 feet curb-to-curb, there wouldn’t be space to park streetside, anyway.
A box truck won't be more than 96" wide (8 feet). It's probably a bit less - 7 feet or so. Park it against the curb, and there's still 14 feet to get by.
Are there visitors spots in the neighborhood nearby? Put a good lock on the trailer door, and take up a few spots in there.
Only you know how vigorous your local cops are, or how likely your neighbors are to call them to complain.
There's not any parking spaces big enough within a few blocks where you could leave it overnight and come back in the morning? If not, I'd probably riske the hatched out lane rather than leave the back of the truck sticking out of the driveway.
Quote from: briantroutman on March 09, 2017, 12:14:32 PM
I had doubts as to whether that would be better than the "act first; ask forgiveness later" (or "act first; hope nobody notices" ) approach ... Then too, as with the suggestion above of contacting the HOA, past experience has taught me that most unusual questions are answered "no" .
I'm not suggesting you ask a yes-or-no question. You explain your situation exactly as you have to us, then ask the POC where you should park the truck. Get that person's name, and park in the place they tell you to.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 09, 2017, 12:21:04 PM
Are there visitors spots in the neighborhood nearby? Put a good lock on the trailer door, and take up a few spots in there.
There are several around the community, although the HOA has been re-roofing the buildings lately, and with dumpsters and construction equipment parked in residents' driveways, the homeowners have been forced to park in visitors' spaces–and most are filled nightly.
Actually, when my building was re-roofed a few weeks ago, I came home from the airport at 2 a.m. to find every single visitor space taken. I ended up parking in a handicapped space and leaving a note on the dash explaining the situation. I came out the next morning to find that I hadn't been towed...and that another car was wedged into the access aisle next to my handicapped spot.
So maybe that demonstrates that all of the boldfaced
ABSOLUTELY NO PARKING... signs around the community are a lot of bluster with little enforcement behind them. Or maybe they were being lenient under the circumstances.
Quote from: kkt on March 09, 2017, 12:34:17 PM
Only you know how vigorous your local cops are, or how likely your neighbors are to call them to complain.
There's not any parking spaces big enough within a few blocks where you could leave it overnight and come back in the morning? If not, I'd probably riske the hatched out lane rather than leave the back of the truck sticking out of the driveway.
This
is suburban McMansionville Florida, so everything around me is either gated or posted with copious amounts of signage warning that illegally parked vehicles will be towed. All streets are curbed with no shoulder to speak of. The crosshatched zone I linked is the only "open" pavement within roughly a mile radius.
Quote from: kphoger on March 09, 2017, 12:42:41 PM
I'm not suggesting you ask a yes-or-no question. You explain your situation exactly as you have to us, then ask the POC where you should park the truck. Get that person's name, and park in the place they tell you to.
Good idea–and something that I believe is stressed in sales training: Never ask a question someone can answer "no" to.
Quote from: kkt on March 09, 2017, 12:34:17 PM
Only you know how vigorous your local cops are, or how likely your neighbors are to call them to complain.
There's not any parking spaces big enough within a few blocks where you could leave it overnight and come back in the morning? If not, I'd probably riske the hatched out lane rather than leave the back of the truck sticking out of the driveway.
Hmm, yeah...what's that at the end of the street, a school or something? Or the library around the corner; I might ask there as well, as they seem to have some extra space in their lot. Also, Wal-Marts are a fairly reliable way to temporarily park large vehicles, though I don't see one nearby. Perhaps one of the local supermarkets?
Stick a note on the windshield "Truck broke down MM/DD at HH:MM. Will be towed tomorrow by noon". Any questions, call me". As long as it's out of there by noon, they won't know! (Yeah, there's always a chance they'll call a towing company on their own!)
Quote from: empirestate on March 09, 2017, 01:09:19 PM
Hmm, yeah...what's that at the end of the street, a school or something? Or the library around the corner; I might ask there as well, as they seem to have some extra space in their lot. Also, Wal-Marts are a fairly reliable way to temporarily park large vehicles, though I don't see one nearby. Perhaps one of the local supermarkets?
At the dead end of Citrus Park Drive is an elementary school, and around the corner on Countryway is a public library. There are also two small shopping strips–both anchored by a grocery store–about a mile away. The trouble is that all of these places are posted with signage warning "no overnight parking" , "unauthorized vehicles will be towed" , etc. I think the school lot is actually gated after hours.
So no matter where I park, I'll be violating some kind of a posted or implied no parking rule...I suppose the question is which violation is "safest" .
Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 09, 2017, 01:21:10 PM
Stick a note on the windshield "Truck broke down MM/DD at HH:MM. Will be towed tomorrow by noon". Any questions, call me". As long as it's out of there by noon, they won't know! (Yeah, there's always a chance they'll call a towing company on their own!)
That's an idea. No matter where I park, I had thought of leaving a note with my address and phone number to hopefully head off being towed, but the fake breakdown might work.
I hate neighborhoods like that. Be glad you'll be out of there :)
Quote from: kkt on March 09, 2017, 01:37:08 PM
I hate neighborhoods like that. Be glad you'll be out of there :)
I am. I've had enough FLA for one lifetime.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 09, 2017, 10:29:08 AM
Quote from: briantroutman on March 08, 2017, 11:33:01 PM
^ I'd say the same...were it not for their ability to assess bogus fines that I'd be less able to fight a thousand miles away.
How would they enforce a fine against you once you'd moved? HOAs aren't courts of law.
I suppose it depends on the particular HOA and the local laws, but the HOA may be able to place a lien on the property for non-payment of money owed.
If they don't have that ability, I'd say screw it, too.
Quote from: briantroutman on March 09, 2017, 01:24:39 PM
Quote from: empirestate on March 09, 2017, 01:09:19 PM
Hmm, yeah...what's that at the end of the street, a school or something? Or the library around the corner; I might ask there as well, as they seem to have some extra space in their lot. Also, Wal-Marts are a fairly reliable way to temporarily park large vehicles, though I don't see one nearby. Perhaps one of the local supermarkets?
At the dead end of Citrus Park Drive is an elementary school, and around the corner on Countryway is a public library. There are also two small shopping strips–both anchored by a grocery store–about a mile away. The trouble is that all of these places are posted with signage warning "no overnight parking" , "unauthorized vehicles will be towed" , etc. I think the school lot is actually gated after hours.
So no matter where I park, I'll be violating some kind of a posted or implied no parking rule...I suppose the question is which violation is "safest" .
Well, my thought was that you'd run it by the library staff first. Do you know them well, or would this be your first time setting foot inside that library?
Quote from: empirestate on March 09, 2017, 11:49:41 PM
Well, my thought was that you'd run it by the library staff first. Do you know them well, or would this be your first time setting foot inside that library?
I suppose I could check with the library staff. Despite my fondness for books and close proximity to the library, I never once visited in the year I've lived here.
So the story gets worse. I'm renting this townhouse from its one-person owner, and I asked her opinion. Her initial attitude was basically "ask forgiveness later" , but she for whatever reason decided to contact the HOA and ask anyway. Here's a copy and paste from the HOA's response to her.
QuoteI spoke to the manager again, and we understand your situation. Unfortunately, we cannot authorize you to break the HOA rules.
So, we don't have a solution for you.
Sorry about that.
Really accommodating people, aren't they?
But about the crosshatched shoulder space on Citrus Park Drive that prompted my original post: I called the county sheriff's nonemergency line, and the operator there said she couldn't help but directed me to the county's code enforcement office. An agent from code enforcement called me back this morning, and he said that his office has nothing to do with parking. "You need to call back the sheriff's office." But unofficially, he said I should probably be able to get away with what I'm trying to do.
So unless something else proves workable (library, etc.), I think I'll end up parking in the crosshatched space leaving a note on the truck.
A HOA doesn't HAVE to be an organization of assholes. It's too bad so many of them turn out that way.
Quote from: kkt on March 10, 2017, 12:04:57 PM
A HOA doesn't HAVE to be an organization of assholes. It's too bad so many of them turn out that way.
I've always seen them as a group of people that could never get elected to a government office, but so badly want some sort of power. Rules are broken all the time, in the form of waivers, variances, and the like. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see a development get variances for various items, then the HOA turns around and tells everyone else they can't make any exceptions for any reason.
I'd never want to live in such a controlling environment.
^ I occasionally listen to the radio consumer advocate (Tom Martino) based out of Denver, and he says that HOAs follow a predictable lifecycle:
A developer builds a community of homes and sets up a skeletal HOA to tend to the community's needs. Maybe a few early residents take active roles, but before long, homeowners stop attending meetings, the association proves ineffective in fulfilling its role, and common areas begin to deteriorate.
Then, an outside for-profit management company is brought in to reestablish order–which it does. But since the homeowners are still disengaged from the HOA, the management company begins to act in its own interests. Punitive fines, escalating fees, and unnecessary improvement projects become the management company's paths to boost its own revenues and further justify the cost of its high-priced management.
Martino says active resident involvement is the only sure way to avoid this situation.
It's like having to live under a PTA: A bunch of people that discovered that their popularity in high school didn't transfer very well to real life, so they set up a HOA to re-establish their "authority."
Couldn't pay me enough to live under a HOA.
Quote from: briantroutman on March 10, 2017, 12:36:51 PM
^ I occasionally listen to the radio consumer advocate (Tom Martino) based out of Denver, and he says that HOAs follow a predictable lifecycle:
A developer builds a community of homes and sets up a skeletal HOA to tend to the community's needs. Maybe a few early residents take active roles, but before long, homeowners stop attending meetings, the association proves ineffective in fulfilling its role, and common areas begin to deteriorate.
Then, an outside for-profit management company is brought in to reestablish order–which it does. But since the homeowners are still disengaged from the HOA, the management company begins to act in its own interests. Punitive fines, escalating fees, and unnecessary improvement projects become the management company's paths to boost its own revenues and further justify the cost of its high-priced management.
Martino says active resident involvement is the only sure way to avoid this situation.
...or ditch the idea of an HOA altogether. Instead of setting up the fiefdom, actually be a part of the town at large.
Something told me the HOA's answer would boil down to some variant of "the solution is to not rent that box truck".
Quote from: briantroutman on March 10, 2017, 10:56:59 AM
QuoteI spoke to the manager again, and we understand your situation. Unfortunately, we cannot authorize you to break the HOA rules.
So, we don't have a solution for you.
Sorry about that.
Contact the HOA directly, and ask something like "Where do HOA rules permit me to park my moving truck?" If the answer is "nowhere," then ask for a special exception. Police departments can enter a special exception for no-parking zones, so I see no reason an HOA couldn't do the same.
They could. But then they might lose their reputation for being ridiculous martinets more concerned with the letter of the rules than the reasons behind them.
Is your name on the box truck? Park it down the road a bit so it's not right in front of your place. They won't have any way to now it's yours.
You also mentioned that construction is going on. Why not make your own parking space wherever the construction vehicles usually are?
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 09, 2017, 10:21:18 PMbut the HOA may be able to place a lien on the property for non-payment of money owed.
Quote from: briantroutman on March 10, 2017, 10:56:59 AM
I'm renting this townhouse from its one-person owner
So then, screw the HOA. You don't own the property so I'd say you're judgment-proof.
Quote from: realjd on March 10, 2017, 02:48:00 PM
Is your name on the box truck? Park it down the road a bit so it's not right in front of your place. They won't have any way to now it's yours.
You also mentioned that construction is going on. Why not make your own parking space wherever the construction vehicles usually are?
Except for the fact that the HOA was already contacted and knows full well who was asking to bring in the box truck.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 10, 2017, 03:50:27 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 09, 2017, 10:21:18 PMbut the HOA may be able to place a lien on the property for non-payment of money owed.
Quote from: briantroutman on March 10, 2017, 10:56:59 AM
I'm renting this townhouse from its one-person owner
So then, screw the HOA. You don't own the property so I'd say you're judgment-proof.
Of course, there's still the effect on his credit report.
Quote from: kkt on March 10, 2017, 02:01:43 PM
They could. But then they might lose their reputation for being ridiculous martinets more concerned with the letter of the rules than the reasons behind them.
Some HOAs are worse than others though. Ours (which is due to the buildings being classified as condominiums - each has four units with attached garages) is merely concerned with upkeep. We do go after vehicles that have been left on the property for a while without moving, and people who leave such things as hot water heaters on their decks. otherwise, it's about roof replacements, parking area upkeep, snowplowing, and lawn maintenance. As far as we're concerned, plant what you want, build your deck according to city code, and decorate as you see fit.
Quote from: vdeane on March 10, 2017, 05:09:28 PM
Quote from: realjd on March 10, 2017, 02:48:00 PM
Is your name on the box truck? Park it down the road a bit so it's not right in front of your place. They won't have any way to now it's yours.
You also mentioned that construction is going on. Why not make your own parking space wherever the construction vehicles usually are?
Except for the fact that the HOA was already contacted and knows full well who was asking to bring in the box truck.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 10, 2017, 03:50:27 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 09, 2017, 10:21:18 PMbut the HOA may be able to place a lien on the property for non-payment of money owed.
Quote from: briantroutman on March 10, 2017, 10:56:59 AM
I'm renting this townhouse from its one-person owner
So then, screw the HOA. You don't own the property so I'd say you're judgment-proof.
Of course, there's still the effect on his credit report.
I've never rented into an HOA neighborhood but would he even be the person receiving the citation? It seems like that the HOA only has jurisdiction over property owners (since they're the only ones who consented to owning property in said place) and could only affect the credit of property owners.
All of this is moot if the HOA required the OP to sign some kind of consent form.
The HOA knows who I am; they require that the homeowner submit an application for each tenants. And I really don't want to deal with the hassle, frustration, and cost associated with fighting a violation–even if I am in the right.
But even assuming that the landlord would have sole liability for any violations, I don't want to visit grief upon an innocent third party (the landlord) because someone else (the HOA) is being unreasonable.
And more practically, I have a sterling record with my past landlords, and I don't want to give my current one a reason to give me anything less than a glowing recommendation.
Last Wednesday, I picked up my rental truck from Penske, and that night, I parked it in the crosshatched space. I had printed signs stating that the truck was being parked there temporarily and would be moved by noon on Friday. The signs, posted in the truck's side windows, also included my name, address, and phone number.
On Thursday morning, I found the truck was still parked in the same place and untouched. In fact, I later discovered that that the keys to the padlock on the cargo box were missing; it turns out they had fallen out of my pocket and were laying on the sidewalk next to the truck. Nobody touched them.
Our packing and loading process was about a day behind schedule, so I never had an opportunity to park the truck Thursday night. It sat diagonally hanging about eight feet out of our driveway for roughly 24 hours between Thursday and Friday afternoons. I left the hazard lights on the entire time–nobody bothered us.
That is except for a guy moving in next door (which shared our driveway). I was told that this new tenant wasn't permitted to move in before the 1st of the month, but there he was on the 31st pestering me about moving the truck.
If you want to read more about the trip northward, I have a separate thread on that here:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=19815.msg2216704#msg2216704