APL flaws

[roadman65]

I just found a flaw in an APL on FL 528 in Orlando that is causing some ignorant motorists to pay an extra toll of $1.25

Its at the westbound Exit 8, where the ramp toll plaza is long side the through lanes.  Exit 9 has an elongated ramp so that the plaza is before it diverges away from the mainline.  Along with the APL and the tab above it stating the $1.25 toll many are coming to the conclusion that the exit ramp plaza is a mainline plaza and the straight through freeway is open road tolling.

Plus the Exit 9 ramp has an EZ return to the freeway, so many, even though they left the actual freeway, think they never left it.  If you examine the ramp from Google satellite you can see that after the ramp merges onto WB McCoy Road there is the ramp back onto FL 528 right after, so that McCoy Road motorists can access the WB freeway (as well as SB Boggy Creek Road).

A flaw in the GPS here, even though the plaza's location did play part in that as well, is happening on one of Orlando's toll roads.
I had the instance where a motorists demanded I refunded him his money and that we were suckering him for an extra toll in where I found this one out.  I also had numerous complaints about two plazas being too close to one another as well, but at the time I though these folks got off to gas up and were just complaining about paying the ramp toll.  However, I think many are not comprehending the APL and assuming that its a regular plaza with ORT in it.

[jeffandnicole]

The aerial and GSV views show a lot of construction, so it doesn't appear the current signage is visible online.

Anyway, is the problem the signage...or people's GPSs?   If it's the GPS, that's not the highway's fault. 

If the confusion lies with the signage, is the signage technically correct and people are just assuming something else? 

[Max Rockatansky]

Isn't that the new plaza that is meant to replace that one that was being torn out between Conway and Semoran?  That's a pretty big screw up if it's clipping off transponders all the way down below on McCoy. 

[roadman65]

The aerial and GSV views show a lot of construction, so it doesn't appear the current signage is visible online.

Anyway, is the problem the signage...or people's GPSs?   If it's the GPS, that's not the highway's fault. 

If the confusion lies with the signage, is the signage technically correct and people are just assuming something else? 

A little bit of all three. 

I get people pulling into my lane going WB at the mainline plaza.  They are bitching to me that the Exit 9 plaza is unattended and ask the stupid question "What the hell are we supposed to do if we do not have coins on us?" and of course I used to think that these people have just gotten off to get gas as most rental cars do not give you the full tank to leave with as you get maybe a third of a tank when you get it.  However some were acting like we were the second mainline toll as some would complain " How come you have the tolls so close together?" and in fact we are now the only mainline toll west of the airport now with the removal of the airport plaza.

Then one guy explained that he got off in error thinking that the Exit 9 plaza was a mainline (and it does look that way from the road) and thought the straight through lanes were ORT lanes.  The APL there does have the toll  price and the words PAY TOLL on it for exiting traffic, but he assumed that it was a split in 528 to pay the toll or have SunPass.

[jeffandnicole]

At Interchange 3 of the NJ Turnpike, nearly every night 1 person would get off the exit thinking it was a rest area with a McDonalds.  There was no signage indicating a rest area (besides, the NJ Turnpike signage use 'Service Area').  There are no signs for McDonalds.  There's not even a billboard indicating a McDonalds nearby.  I could not figure out what these people were looking at.  The best I could determine was they were tired, saw the Red Roof Inn hotel sign on the Big Blue Lodging Sign, and misinterpreted it for a McDonalds.

The point is, this would happen about once a night, out of thousands of cars.  If there's one or two people that are confused on a daily basis, there really isn't much that can be done.  Someone saw the sign and misinterpreted what the sign said. 

[bzakharin]

I managed to get lost here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0604664,-74.1643803,3a,37.5y,55.17h,87.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDT0TLRgyIKIIGL5PcTKCug!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en-US
Despite the seemingly clear signage because I didn't expect 89A and 89B to lead to different roads. Then I confused the toll plaza for an exit toll plaza where it was really an *entrance* toll plaza. It's a pretty bad idea to have a toll plaza on a C-D lane

[roadman65]

Add both the c/d toll plaza and the APL's and the fact that ORT express center lanes are becoming more and more popular and you have a recipe for disaster.  Also consider the ignorance of most people living today and that puts even more ingredients into the mix.

[Rothman]

Add both the c/d toll plaza and the APL's and the fact that ORT express center lanes are becoming more and more popular and you have a recipe for disaster.  Also consider the ignorance of most people living today and that puts even more ingredients into the mix.

Cats and dogs living together -- mass hysteria!

Methinks the world will continue to turn.

[roadman65]

I saw your link of the new Brick, NJ layout of the GSP and NJ 70 redone combo interchange.  At least they now got the sign for forthcoming Exit 90 right.  Since Ocean County decided to eliminate left turns off the ramp as the ramp now exclusively is for CR 549 SB.

Also they removed Point Pleasant from the sign as well.  Being NJ 70 east to NJ 88 is the best way now with Exit 89A open for business it makes sense.  Though the GSP did not include that place as a destination and used "Brick" instead.

Back to topic,  I would imagine that some coming SB may get confused being the toll plaza is in view after the split.  If that is so then those at the Toms River Plaza will hear the complaints of them saying "I just paid a toll a few miles back" with the toll collector wondering what the hell he is talking about considering that the last plaza now before Toms River going SB is the Raritan Plaza near MM 127.

However, at least the GSP does not have APLs here and do they have tourists just arriving from a nearby airport going to the spots tourists go to, so that mistake will be fewer than what we have here in O Town.

[jeffandnicole]

I managed to get lost here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0604664,-74.1643803,3a,37.5y,55.17h,87.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDT0TLRgyIKIIGL5PcTKCug!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en-US
Despite the seemingly clear signage because I didn't expect 89A and 89B to lead to different roads. Then I confused the toll plaza for an exit toll plaza where it was really an *entrance* toll plaza. It's a pretty bad idea to have a toll plaza on a C-D lane

Looking at all the signage in a row...
Signs prior to entering the C/D lane show routes 70 & 528.
After entering, signage shows GSP North & 528 keeps left, 70 exits right.
Then, GSP North keeps left, 528 keeps right.

So, the only way you could use the toll plaza is if you simply follow the GSP North signage thru the C/D lanes.

Now...you're thinking this is a stupid design.  It's actually a very smart design.  Very smart.  If a highway is jammed, we've talked about in other threads that motorists will use the C/D lanes to bypass the congestion, generally not safe due to the conflicting speeds of exiting/entering traffic.  They lose that incentive here as they would need to pay another toll!

[jeffandnicole]

Back to topic,  I would imagine that some coming SB may get confused being the toll plaza is in view after the split.  If that is so then those at the Toms River Plaza will hear the complaints of them saying "I just paid a toll a few miles back" with the toll collector wondering what the hell he is talking about considering that the last plaza now before Toms River going SB is the Raritan Plaza near MM 127.

Here's the last sign prior to the southbound C/D lane.  https://goo.gl/maps/t6VHNwN1hAz  Here's the gore point for the exit: https://goo.gl/maps/rsjnQeUeQ9U2 .  They would need to ignore the lack of any sort of toll signage on the Parkway approaching the exit, plus see the toll plaza thru the overpass at the last moment, in order to think that they need to get right to pay a cash toll.

You can't stop people from reading what's not there. 

[bzakharin]

I managed to get lost here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0604664,-74.1643803,3a,37.5y,55.17h,87.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDT0TLRgyIKIIGL5PcTKCug!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en-US
Despite the seemingly clear signage because I didn't expect 89A and 89B to lead to different roads. Then I confused the toll plaza for an exit toll plaza where it was really an *entrance* toll plaza. It's a pretty bad idea to have a toll plaza on a C-D lane

Looking at all the signage in a row...
Signs prior to entering the C/D lane show routes 70 & 528.
After entering, signage shows GSP North & 528 keeps left, 70 exits right.
Then, GSP North keeps left, 528 keeps right.

So, the only way you could use the toll plaza is if you simply follow the GSP North signage thru the C/D lanes.

I was looking for CR 528. The only thing I can say in my defense is that it was raining heavily at the time, so I may have not seen the gore sign. There are also situations when overhead signs apply to something beyond the tollbooth.

Now...you're thinking this is a stupid design.  It's actually a very smart design.  Very smart.  If a highway is jammed, we've talked about in other threads that motorists will use the C/D lanes to bypass the congestion, generally not safe due to the conflicting speeds of exiting/entering traffic.  They lose that incentive here as they would need to pay another toll!

I suppose that makes sense

[vdeane]

Also: where the toll booth is on the c/d road is what used to be exit 89 alone.  Until recently, it was a normal ramp toll.

[roadman65]

Back to topic,  I would imagine that some coming SB may get confused being the toll plaza is in view after the split.  If that is so then those at the Toms River Plaza will hear the complaints of them saying "I just paid a toll a few miles back" with the toll collector wondering what the hell he is talking about considering that the last plaza now before Toms River going SB is the Raritan Plaza near MM 127.

Here's the last sign prior to the southbound C/D lane.  https://goo.gl/maps/t6VHNwN1hAz  Here's the gore point for the exit: https://goo.gl/maps/rsjnQeUeQ9U2 .  They would need to ignore the lack of any sort of toll signage on the Parkway approaching the exit, plus see the toll plaza thru the overpass at the last moment, in order to think that they need to get right to pay a cash toll.

You can't stop people from reading what's not there. 

Exit 8 on W Bound FL 528 has a gore exit sign too.  It has a pull through FL 528 West shield on the APL before the exit as well as a stop light on the ramp back onto FL 528 W Bound and people were thinking that they were still on freeway.  One guy in particular demanded a refund from me after I educated him on the mistake he made and he did not look dumb either

Somebody will find a flaw in the most obvious things.  Heck I see people who tell me that they should put up a warning sign the toll booths are coming on EB FL 528, despite the Exit 4 overhead guide states its THE LAST EXIT BEFORE TOLL sign.  Then you have the one mile guide in yellow for the plaza itself followed by the overheads saying CASH TOLL as well.