Phoenix Area Loops

[blanketcomputer]

With the Loop 202 Red Mountain widening project in Mesa, I wonder if ramp meters will be added to that section.  Much of Loop 202 doesn't have ramp meters installed except for the Phoenix and Tempe portions of the Red Mountain Freeway as stated earlier.

ADOT lists Freeway Management System (FMS) improvements as part of the project description, but that is still sort of cryptic. In my opinion it would make sense to add ramp meters at least to Gilbert Road. The portion of the Red Mountain Freeway gaining a general lane will be a 10 lane freeway. I think the traffic volume warrants it and traffic isn't so bogged down already so meters may have a noticeable effect. I used to drive the Red Mountain Freeway from Tempe to east Mesa daily in the past and I think that ramp meters could actually help some of the traffic caused from barrages of cars entering the freeway at once. I believe ADOT is also adding auxiliary lanes between Alma School Road and McKellips Road. That is a really short distance, especially eastbound. I wonder how they will rebuild the McKellips eastbound exit to accommodate the auxiliary lane.

It seems that ADOT is looking to avoid all the long waiting to start freeway construction, or widening projects. They are getting started almost as soon as funding allows it.

Yeah, they seem to be on a roll with getting funding and projects started and completed. I remember reading that the Red Mountain Freeway widening project is beginning about a year ahead of its planned start because of some sort of federal funding that could only be secured sooner rather than later.

[andy3175]

Speaking of the South Mountain Freeway (Loop 202), an article from Oct 16, 2014:

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2014/10/16/adot-seeks-teams-for-1-8b-loop-202-south-mountain.html

Arizona Department of Transportation is looking for teams to design, build and maintain the $1.8 billion South Mountain extension of Loop 202. ADOT plans to review qualifications and create a short list of teams to submit the proposal to build the 17-mile freeway. Loop 202 South Mountain will run from near 59th Avenue and Interstate 10 in southwest Phoenix to Loop 202-Interstate 10 interchange at the Phoenix-Chandler border.

The request is generated by the first unsolicited highway development proposal ever submitted to ADOT. South Mountain Development Group (SMDG) — a joint venture of Kiewit Development Co., Kiewit Infrastructure West Co., Sundt Construction, Inc. and Parsons Corp. — proposed in 2013 to design, build and finance the freeway. Tom Janssen, Kiewit director of external communications, said at the time that building the freeway all at once would be less expensive than typical methods. Prior to the SMDG proposal, ADOT would have constructed the freeway in segments and phases. The joint venture team said it would be far more efficient to build it at one time. ADOT spent nearly a year reviewing the unsolicited proposal before electing to go with a design-build-maintain approach.

[dfwmapper]

How does the money work for design-build-maintain on a non-tolled road? Design-build on a public road is no big stretch to understand since it ultimately ends up in the hands of the state, and design-build-maintain on a private toll road is logical since toll revenue can pay for maintenance, but I'm not familiar with how funding for maintenance would be handled on a non-tolled road. Would ADOT pay a set amount of money annually for that? Or does the contractor try to predict their costs for however many years into the future and work it into the primary contract, and then keep any leftover as profit, or eat any overage as loss?

[Pink Jazz]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but with the past subject of ramp meters, today I noticed a newly installed ramp meter at Loop 202 SanTan Freeway and Dobson Road in Chandler.  It hasn't been activated yet, since the signals were covered up.  The other interchanges east of Dobson do not have them yet, so I wonder if there are plans to install them at other ramps on the SanTan Freeway, or is it only for this particular ramp.

[blanketcomputer]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but with the past subject of ramp meters, today I noticed a newly installed ramp meter at Loop 202 SanTan Freeway and Dobson Road in Chandler.  It hasn't been activated yet, since the signals were covered up.  The other interchanges east of Dobson do not have them yet, so I wonder if there are plans to install them at other ramps on the SanTan Freeway, or is it only for this particular ramp.

You asked about ramp meters on Loop 202 Red Mountain a while back and it seems that they might be installed as part of the widening project. I've noticed loop detectors being placed on entrance ramps east of Loop 101 now that most ramp re-alignment is near completion. Supports for dynamic message boards are also being constructed at ~3 mile intervals east of the existing message boards. This map shows locations for the future Red Mountain freeway boards, and the recently installed message boards around the I-10/Loop 202 stack.

[ztonyg]

Speaking of ADOT's Freeway Management System, it appears that as of today, ADOT has included several more VMSs in their Travel Time displays.  ADOT now appears to be posting travel times at almost every other VMS in a certain direction (unlike before where it could be every 3rd or 4th VMS). 

[blanketcomputer]

Speaking of ADOT's Freeway Management System, it appears that as of today, ADOT has included several more VMSs in their Travel Time displays.  ADOT now appears to be posting travel times at almost every other VMS in a certain direction (unlike before where it could be every 3rd or 4th VMS). 

I've noticed this. It seems that travel times are being displayed for longer hours, too.

[pumpkineater2]

^ The message boards will now display travel times 7 days a week, with extended hours.

The expanded program began on Mon., July 27. Message boards are now displaying the estimated travel times seven days a week, from 5 a.m. to 11 p.m. weekdays and 7 a.m. to 9 p.m. on weekends.

http://www.azdot.gov/media/News/news-release/2015/07/29/adot-expands-hours-and-days-when-travel-times-are-displayed-above-phoenix-area-freeways

[hm insulators]

Speaking of ADOT's Freeway Management System, it appears that as of today, ADOT has included several more VMSs in their Travel Time displays.  ADOT now appears to be posting travel times at almost every other VMS in a certain direction (unlike before where it could be every 3rd or 4th VMS). 

I've noticed this. It seems that travel times are being displayed for longer hours, too.

Same here.

[The Ghostbuster]

The Phoenix area isn't planning any more loops is it? Like a Loop 404?

[roadfro]

The Phoenix area isn't planning any more loops is it? Like a Loop 404?

The completion of 303 and the extension of 202 are the only things I'm aware of. Not sure what else they'd need in the way of loop freeways.

[iBallasticwolf2]

The Phoenix area isn't planning any more loops is it? Like a Loop 404?

The completion of 303 and the extension of 202 are the only things I'm aware of. Not sure what else they'd need in the way of loop freeways.

Water Tower Loop 1001!
To be serious I agree that no new loop freeways are needed besides the things listed.

[dfwmapper]

The big projects on the horizon are AZ 30 (I-10 reliever on the west side), a US 60 bypass of Gold Canyon, a north/south freeway connecting US 60 in the vicinity of Apache Junction to I-10 in the vicinity of AZ 87, an extension of AZ 24 east to that new freeway and on to the vicinity of the US 60/AZ 79 interchange, and whatever ends up happening with I-11.

[myosh_tino]

Speaking of Phoenix-area freeways, what are the plans for that short little stub of a freeway at the southeast corner of Loop 202 by the Phoenix-Mesa airport?

[Pink Jazz]

Speaking of Phoenix-area freeways, what are the plans for that short little stub of a freeway at the southeast corner of Loop 202 by the Phoenix-Mesa airport?

The next phase of SR 24 will go to Meridian Road, but is currently unfunded and won't be complete until at least 2026.  The third and final phase will be in Pinal County up to the future Pinal North-South Freeway, although a date and specific alignment are currently unknown.

[blanketcomputer]

This is probably a bit of specific question, but does anyone know anything about a dip in the road on Loop 202 Red Mountain near Higley Road? This is the location https://goo.gl/maps/dCjNJ but it it hardly noticeable on street view. Eastbound, it is a very noticeable dip down a few inches, and about 200 feet later it jumps sharply back up.

This dip has has existed for years, but I am not 100% certain that it always existed. Does anyone remember this dip existing when Loop 202 was constructed or was it some sort of damage the occurred after the fact? In the last few weeks orange 'Dip' advisory signs popped up, even though the dip has existed for long as I remember. It appears they are rebuilding this dip and another section near Val Vista as part of the HOV lane project. Traffic is shifted on to the newly paved median and the old lanes are blocked off and are being reconstructed.

[Sonic99]

I don't currently live in the Valley, but your Google Maps link showed me something I found fascinating. The 202 is under construction all the way from the 101 interchange by Riverview Park all the way around to Broadway out in East Mesa with adding general use and HOV lanes. I can't think of a prior project that had that length of freeway under construction at the same time. Those projects are usually in shorter, smaller sections.

Also, noticed a bit of a screw up on ADOT's part, something I thought they were better about. Where the general-use lanes are being added, the overpasses at Dobson, Alma School, McKellips, and Country Club weren't built to accommodate them, so new extensions of the bridge have to be added. I thought they had done better about making the overpasses ready for the future. A bit of shortsightedness by ADOT, there.

[blanketcomputer]

I don't currently live in the Valley, but your Google Maps link showed me something I found fascinating. The 202 is under construction all the way from the 101 interchange by Riverview Park all the way around to Broadway out in East Mesa with adding general use and HOV lanes. I can't think of a prior project that had that length of freeway under construction at the same time. Those projects are usually in shorter, smaller sections.

Also, noticed a bit of a screw up on ADOT's part, something I thought they were better about. Where the general-use lanes are being added, the overpasses at Dobson, Alma School, McKellips, and Country Club weren't built to accommodate them, so new extensions of the bridge have to be added. I thought they had done better about making the overpasses ready for the future. A bit of shortsightedness by ADOT, there.

The general purpose lanes are only being added between Loop 101 and Gilbert Road, and the HOV lanes are being added from Gilbert Road (where they currently end) to Broadway. They were separate, smaller projects not originally intended to be grouped together. Federal funding was secured for the HOV lane project and it was expedited by a few years, grouped with general purpose lanes, and bid as one project, giving us the 18 miles of continuous construction.

Bridge widening is common place for adding general purpose lanes and is hardly a screw up by ADOT. The freeway held its required capacity for almost 20 years and now the bridges need to be widened. I don't think that is shortsighted.

[Sonic99]

I don't currently live in the Valley, but your Google Maps link showed me something I found fascinating. The 202 is under construction all the way from the 101 interchange by Riverview Park all the way around to Broadway out in East Mesa with adding general use and HOV lanes. I can't think of a prior project that had that length of freeway under construction at the same time. Those projects are usually in shorter, smaller sections.

Also, noticed a bit of a screw up on ADOT's part, something I thought they were better about. Where the general-use lanes are being added, the overpasses at Dobson, Alma School, McKellips, and Country Club weren't built to accommodate them, so new extensions of the bridge have to be added. I thought they had done better about making the overpasses ready for the future. A bit of shortsightedness by ADOT, there.

The general purpose lanes are only being added between Loop 101 and Gilbert Road, and the HOV lanes are being added from Gilbert Road (where they currently end) to Broadway. They were separate, smaller projects not originally intended to be grouped together. Federal funding was secured for the HOV lane project and it was expedited by a few years, grouped with general purpose lanes, and bid as one project, giving us the 18 miles of continuous construction.

Bridge widening is common place for adding general purpose lanes and is hardly a screw up by ADOT. The freeway held its required capacity for almost 20 years and now the bridges need to be widened. I don't think that is shortsighted.

Holy crap, has it really been almost 20 years? I guess my time is just blurring by me, it seems like just recently that the 202 was being built out there. But now that I think about it, yeah, it's been that long. Wow, time flies, huh?

[blanketcomputer]

Yep, Loop 202 was completed to County Club by 1998, so the bridges being widened are at least 17 or 18 years old besides the Country Club bridge which was built when Loop 202 was extended to Gilbert Road in 2000/2001.

[swbrotha100]

This is probably a bit of specific question, but does anyone know anything about a dip in the road on Loop 202 Red Mountain near Higley Road? This is the location https://goo.gl/maps/dCjNJ but it it hardly noticeable on street view. Eastbound, it is a very noticeable dip down a few inches, and about 200 feet later it jumps sharply back up.

This dip has has existed for years, but I am not 100% certain that it always existed. Does anyone remember this dip existing when Loop 202 was constructed or was it some sort of damage the occurred after the fact? In the last few weeks orange 'Dip' advisory signs popped up, even though the dip has existed for long as I remember. It appears they are rebuilding this dip and another section near Val Vista as part of the HOV lane project. Traffic is shifted on to the newly paved median and the old lanes are blocked off and are being reconstructed.

I had briefly heard of possible fissures (?) or soil issues along some portions of the Loop 202 Red Mountain section at the time of initial construction.

[swbrotha100]

Also, noticed a bit of a screw up on ADOT's part, something I thought they were better about. Where the general-use lanes are being added, the overpasses at Dobson, Alma School, McKellips, and Country Club weren't built to accommodate them, so new extensions of the bridge have to be added. I thought they had done better about making the overpasses ready for the future. A bit of shortsightedness by ADOT, there.

ADOT usually builds its overpasses wide enough to accommodate future HOV lanes in the median. At least, this is what I've observed in the Phoenix area. There are exceptions, mostly along Loop 303.

[blanketcomputer]

I had briefly heard of possible fissures (?) or soil issues along some portions of the Loop 202 Red Mountain section at the time of initial construction.

The only fissure I remember was one that crossed the freeway around Main Street in east Mesa, but you very well could be right. Construction crews have ripped out the old roadway and are working on deep soil mixing.

[Pink Jazz]

I previously talked about potential Interstate designations for the existing freeways, so if the future freeways were also to become Interstates, here are potential designations:

• Gateway Freeway (SR 24) - Interstate 710
• I-10 Reliever (SR 30) - Interstate 610
• Pinal North-South Freeway - Interstate 310

[dfwmapper]

If we're going to play the fictional numbers game, then both Gateway and Pinal should have even first digits because both will start and end at another Interstate, while SR 30 could get an even I-x11.