New Jersey Turnpike

[roadman]

Along NJTP/I-95 Northbound at Exits 9 & 10; there are now new pull-through BGS' that include I-95 shields along with NJTP shields at the respective exits.

However, it appears that these pull-throughs have the control city/destination legend greened out.  These BGS' are square and are laid out in a 3-line stack:

   NORTH     (direction cardinal lettering spread out over both shields)
  95 NJTP     (shields)
*greenout*

My question is; what actually was greened out?  The BGS panel is too narrow to list New York City but could fit either New York or Newark.

Interesting.  The signs include the I-95 shield, but green out the destinations.

[jeffandnicole]

Along NJTP/I-95 Northbound at Exits 9 & 10; there are now new pull-through BGS' that include I-95 shields along with NJTP shields at the respective exits.

However, it appears that these pull-throughs have the control city/destination legend greened out.  These BGS' are square and are laid out in a 3-line stack:

   NORTH     (direction cardinal lettering spread out over both shields)
  95 NJTP     (shields)
*greenout*

My question is; what actually was greened out?  The BGS panel is too narrow to list New York City but could fit either New York or Newark.

At least at Exit 10, "Newark" would be better, as New York can be easily accessed by staying on the Turnpike, or by taking the exit.

[Alps]

Along NJTP/I-95 Northbound at Exits 9 & 10; there are now new pull-through BGS' that include I-95 shields along with NJTP shields at the respective exits.

However, it appears that these pull-throughs have the control city/destination legend greened out.  These BGS' are square and are laid out in a 3-line stack:

   NORTH     (direction cardinal lettering spread out over both shields)
  95 NJTP     (shields)
*greenout*

My question is; what actually was greened out?  The BGS panel is too narrow to list New York City but could fit either New York or Newark.

At least at Exit 10, "Newark" would be better, as New York can be easily accessed by staying on the Turnpike, or by taking the exit.

NJTA policy is that northbound is always signed to New York. This only creates a direct conflict at Exit 16E, but indirect at 14. (10 and 13 can be signed to Staten Island instead.) Only southbound gets the range of destinations from Newark to Wilmington.

[dgolub]

Along NJTP/I-95 Northbound at Exits 9 & 10; there are now new pull-through BGS' that include I-95 shields along with NJTP shields at the respective exits.

However, it appears that these pull-throughs have the control city/destination legend greened out.  These BGS' are square and are laid out in a 3-line stack:

   NORTH     (direction cardinal lettering spread out over both shields)
  95 NJTP     (shields)
*greenout*

My question is; what actually was greened out?  The BGS panel is too narrow to list New York City but could fit either New York or Newark.

Why would they have greenout going north?  That makes no sense.  I feel like someone may have goofed and the intent may have been to have greenout over Philadelphia on southbound signs.

[PHLBOS]

Along NJTP/I-95 Northbound at Exits 9 & 10; there are now new pull-through BGS' that include I-95 shields along with NJTP shields at the respective exits.

However, it appears that these pull-throughs have the control city/destination legend greened out.  These BGS' are square and are laid out in a 3-line stack:

   NORTH     (direction cardinal lettering spread out over both shields)
  95 NJTP     (shields)
*greenout*

My question is; what actually was greened out?  The BGS panel is too narrow to list New York City but could fit either New York or Newark.

At least at Exit 10, "Newark" would be better, as New York can be easily accessed by staying on the Turnpike, or by taking the exit.

NJTA policy is that northbound is always signed to New York. This only creates a direct conflict at Exit 16E, but indirect at 14. (10 and 13 can be signed to Staten Island instead.) Only southbound gets the range of destinations from Newark to Wilmington.

Back to my original question: why were the destination listing on the new northbound pull-through signage greened out?

[shadyjay]

Could the greenout be covering "G Washington Br" or some variant thereof, since the MUTCD doesn't allow use of bridges as control points anymore?

[jeffandnicole]

Could the greenout be covering "G Washington Br" or some variant thereof, since the MUTCD doesn't allow use of bridges as control points anymore?

Much too far south for that.

[PHLBOS]

Could the greenout be covering "G Washington Br" or some variant thereof, since the MUTCD doesn't allow use of bridges as control points anymore?

The panel's too narrow for such; unless it was worded as G.W. Bridge.

[Alps]

NJTA policy is that northbound is always signed to New York. This only creates a direct conflict at Exit 16E, but indirect at 14. (10 and 13 can be signed to Staten Island instead.) Only southbound gets the range of destinations from Newark to Wilmington.

Back to my original question: why were the destination listing on the new northbound pull-through signage greened out?

Using my info - my guess sides with having put the wrong destination.

[PHLBOS]

NJTA policy is that northbound is always signed to New York. This only creates a direct conflict at Exit 16E, but indirect at 14. (10 and 13 can be signed to Staten Island instead.) Only southbound gets the range of destinations from Newark to Wilmington.

Back to my original question: why were the destination listing on the new northbound pull-through signage greened out?

Using my info - my guess sides with having put the wrong destination.

Fair enough, but why wouldn't that be masked out with the correct destination?  The BGS panels are wide enough to support a New York listing.

[Don'tKnowYet]

NJTA policy is that northbound is always signed to New York. This only creates a direct conflict at Exit 16E, but indirect at 14. (10 and 13 can be signed to Staten Island instead.) Only southbound gets the range of destinations from Newark to Wilmington.

Back to my original question: why were the destination listing on the new northbound pull-through signage greened out?

Using my info - my guess sides with having put the wrong destination.

Fair enough, but why wouldn't that be masked out with the correct destination?  The BGS panels are wide enough to support a New York listing.

Let's think about this logically.  New York and/or New York City is the control city on the pull-thru signing since entering NJ from Delaware. I think Alps is probably right. The wrong destination is probably being covered. If so, this destination must be Newark.  Instead of having some form of NYC consistently south of Interchange 9 or 10 then abruptly change to Newark, this effectively results in pull-thru destinations out of order to the northbound user.

Putting a form of NYC on the pull-thru at Interchange 10 is by definition a conflict with the Outerbridge Crossing destination at that exit.  The "do nothing" alternative was most likely the easiest or cheapest alternative of all corrections.

[storm2k]

Could the greenout be covering "G Washington Br" or some variant thereof, since the MUTCD doesn't allow use of bridges as control points anymore?

They're only using the GWB as a destination beyond 16E/W, where it makes sense (since you could take either exit there to get to the Lincoln Tunnel). I'm going to bet they put Newark on those signs when they weren't supposed to.

[jeffandnicole]

It would be nice if, prior to Exit 10, there was a sign or multiple signs, announcing the exits for various routes to NYC as there are probably a half dozen possibilities.

[PHLBOS]

IMHO, this is probably one case where the listing of two cities/destinations on one pull-through sign would make the most logical sense; i.e. use the old-school Newark/New York combo that used to be on many northbound entrance ramp signage.  Such would emphasize that the Turnpike passes by/through Newark first and then heads towards the Big Apple (via the G.W. Bridge).

Personally, and I've stated such on other threads; taking the rural approach to highway sign legends (single listings of only cities) and the like in a more populated metropolitan region is not a wise nor rational approach.  Someone's taking the U in MUTCD a bit too literally.

[bzakharin]

Staten Island is not really New York (in the sense that people don't usually think of it as "New York City" like they do for Manhattan and Brooklyn (at to a lesser extend Bronx and Queens). Sure, you can get to some of these places via the Outerbridge Crossing, but it's not the best way, so I think "New York" is still safe at Exit 10. It's not until Exit 13 that it becomes a problem.

[jeffandnicole]

Staten Island is not really New York (in the sense that people don't usually think of it as "New York City" like they do for Manhattan and Brooklyn (at to a lesser extend Bronx and Queens). Sure, you can get to some of these places via the Outerbridge Crossing, but it's not the best way, so I think "New York" is still safe at Exit 10. It's not until Exit 13 that it becomes a problem.

But it's still New York.

Also, I-287 is an often-used route to New York.

For these reasons, that's why signage with destinations for New York Exits should be posted prior to Exit 10.

[bzakharin]

I assume that any traffic signs referring to "New York" mean the city and not the state, so I-287 is not often used to get to New York, at least not from anywhere in New Jersey.

[ekt8750]

Last I checked, Staten Island is both part of the City and the State.

[roadman65]

Most people are ignorant and think that "New York" or "New York City" is Manhattan.  The rest of the four boroughs have identities of their own in most peoples mind.  Though part of the big city, the island of Manhattan, particularly Midtown is the main part of NY.

[dgolub]

Most people are ignorant and think that "New York" or "New York City" is Manhattan.  The rest of the four boroughs have identities of their own in most peoples mind.  Though part of the big city, the island of Manhattan, particularly Midtown is the main part of NY.

When I hear just "New York," I generally think of the whole state, but that's just me.  When I was in college and would introduce myself to people from other parts of the country, I would explicitly say that I was from New York, the state, not the city.

[jwolfer]

Most people are ignorant and think that "New York" or "New York City" is Manhattan.  The rest of the four boroughs have identities of their own in most peoples mind.  Though part of the big city, the island of Manhattan, particularly Midtown is the main part of NY.

People from Queens will say they are going into the city meaning going to Manhattan

[PHLBOS]

Putting a form of NYC on the pull-thru at Interchange 10 is by definition a conflict with the Outerbridge Crossing destination at that exit.  The "do nothing" alternative was most likely the easiest or cheapest alternative of all corrections.

Recent Exit 129 signage exiting from the southbound GSP (NJTP Exit 11) that directs NYC-bound motorists to I-95 and not onto NJ 440 & the Outerbridge Crossing disproves the notion of a conflict. 

Supplemental BGS for Outerbridge Crossing & Staten Island located prior to the exit ramp

[dgolub]

Most people are ignorant and think that "New York" or "New York City" is Manhattan.  The rest of the four boroughs have identities of their own in most peoples mind.  Though part of the big city, the island of Manhattan, particularly Midtown is the main part of NY.

People from Queens will say they are going into the city meaning going to Manhattan

Yes, they do, and it makes me want to scream.  They're already in the city, just a different borough.

[PHLBOS]

Most people are ignorant and think that "New York" or "New York City" is Manhattan.  The rest of the four boroughs have identities of their own in most peoples mind.  Though part of the big city, the island of Manhattan, particularly Midtown is the main part of NY.

People from Queens will say they are going into the city meaning going to Manhattan

Yes, they do, and it makes me want to scream.  They're already in the city, just a different borough.

Again, this is where MUTCD's/FHWA's misguided (IMHO) restriction of only listing city/town names on primary signs as opposed to bridges/tunnels, city sections/boroughs or even state names can cause some issues and/or add more confusion.

[swbrotha100]

If the NJTA wants people to use as much of the Turnpike as possible, then I see why they would only point "New York" or "New York City" by traveling the entire length going north to the George Washington Bridge. Its like labeling "To I-95" by going south to the Delaware Memorial Bridge instead of mentioning other exits in between.

As far as New York goes, most people I've met that didn't grow up in the NYC area thought of Manhattan as "the city" and specified the other boroughs by name. From what outsiders see on TV shows and Hollywood, NYC might as well be just Manhattan.