Wisconsin notes

[JREwing78]

Back to the story about opening the Madison Beltline's shoulders to alleviate congestion, I have a clear answer: NO! Shoulders on roadways should not be used as traffic lanes. They should only be used in emergency situations, such as a car breaking down, etc. Has opening the shoulders to traffic ever helped much in alleviating congestion anyway?

Have they seriously considered widening the Beltline to four lanes in each direction?

This has only begun in the past year or so:

Madison Beltline Study
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/madisonbeltline/default.aspx

They don't go into detail in the article about opening up shoulders for traffic in high-congestion scenarios, but I'd be surprised if this wasn't discussing an implementation of an ITS system on the Beltline, much like what I-90 west of O'Hare has. Obviously it's not a replacement for widening, but it would also be useful in managing traffic during accident cleanup activities.

[triplemultiplex]

What the Beltline needs is continuous local arteries paralleling it to give 'local' traffic an alternative to hopping on the freeway for two exits.  The aforementioned study reveals that a huge proportion of Beltline traffic between Verona Rd and I-39/90 is only traveling on the freeway for two or three exits. Very little traffic, relatively speaking, is making a 'thru trip' from one side of Madison to the other.  An alternate route to the south will not pull enough traffic from the Beltline to make a difference.

The Beltline's problem is not so much capacity as it is interchange spacing.  Between Verona Rd and South Towne/Broadway, there are too many interchanges.  All the entering/exiting traffic jockeying for position is what jams it up.  What is needed are some ramp braids and the elimination of at least one interchange.  I think Rimrock Rd should get the ax.  An improved Nolen Dr interchange can easily replace the functionality of Rimrock.  Yeah it might get annoying briefly during weekend shindigs at the convention center, but not enough to make the weekday hassles worth it.

WisDOT is planning to eliminate the half interchange at Seminole Hwy once they get around to building the system ramps at Verona Rd, but I don't see the point in waiting.  Scrap that access right now and get everyone used to it not being there for the future.

[SEWIGuy]

The problem is that "continuous local arteries" can't exist where the Beltline needs them.  The single biggest problem is that the Beltline runs between Lake Monona and Lake Waubesa, and to get from the interstate to the west side, it's the ONE route that will conveniently get you there.  The alternatives are too far out of the way and/or take too much time regardless of Beltline congestion. 

I agree with you that there are too many interchanges, but capacity increases are needed as well.

[DaBigE]

The Beltline's problem is not so much capacity as it is interchange spacing.  Between Verona Rd and South Towne/Broadway, there are too many interchanges.  All the entering/exiting traffic jockeying for position is what jams it up.  What is needed are some ramp braids and the elimination of at least one interchange.  I think Rimrock Rd should get the ax.  An improved Nolen Dr interchange can easily replace the functionality of Rimrock.  Yeah it might get annoying briefly during weekend shindigs at the convention center, but not enough to make the weekday hassles worth it.

I can't disagree about the spacing issues, but how do you plan to upgrade the John Nolen interchange? It's pretty-well landlocked by development, railroad, Cap City Trail, Nob Hill Dr, and wetlands. Moving/adjusting the ATC line won't be cheap either. If anything, I'd keep the Rimrock interchange and nix John Nolen (or reduce JN to exits from the Beltline only).

[dvferyance]

The problem is that "continuous local arteries" can't exist where the Beltline needs them.  The single biggest problem is that the Beltline runs between Lake Monona and Lake Waubesa, and to get from the interstate to the west side, it's the ONE route that will conveniently get you there.  The alternatives are too far out of the way and/or take too much time regardless of Beltline congestion. 

I agree with you that there are too many interchanges, but capacity increases are needed as well.

Other than the half interchange with Seminole Hwy I think they are all needed.

[JREwing78]

The Beltline's problem is not so much capacity as it is interchange spacing.  Between Verona Rd and South Towne/Broadway, there are too many interchanges.  All the entering/exiting traffic jockeying for position is what jams it up.  What is needed are some ramp braids and the elimination of at least one interchange.

I concur with the removal of the Rimrock Rd and Seminole Dr interchanges. However, some reconfiguration of the Rimrock Rd intersection with John Nolen Dr. will be necessary to accommodate traffic demands with the removal of the Rimrock Rd interchange.

The interchange at US-51 (Stoughton Rd) is also overdue for a freeway-to-freeway reconfiguration to uncork it. Having traffic bound for Broadway and Dutch Mill Rd combined with traffic to-from Stoughton Rd makes this a nasty bottleneck.

[DaBigE]

The interchange at US-51 (Stoughton Rd) is also overdue for a freeway-to-freeway reconfiguration to uncork it. Having traffic bound for Broadway and Dutch Mill Rd combined with traffic to-from Stoughton Rd makes this a nasty bottleneck.

Redoing that mess was/is part of the grand plans for the Stoughton Rd corridor, which at least according to the project website, is scheduled to finally have a Final EIS around fall 2020. At least as of the last PIM, alternatives included a combination of a DDI at the interchange and flyover ramps or a modified echelon at Broadway. Given the current funding status, I'm thinking nothing major will happen until 2025.

[mrose]

Have they seriously considered widening the Beltline to four lanes in each direction?

In many areas, they can't. They're either landlocked by development (especially with the transmission line that was erected several years back) or an environmental corridor. What they need is a southern bypass to connect to 151 by Verona. That should remove a lot of the heavy truck traffic that clogs things up between the beltline interchange and Verona Rd.

That's going to be very difficult too.  Really at this point they are stuck with the corridor.  It is really only stop and go during rush and for a pretty limited window of time.

Is there anything they could do along the County "M" corridor?

Coming up from Janesville, that was always the way to cut over from US 14 to US 18/151 without dealing with Madison.

[SEWIGuy]

The interchange at US-51 (Stoughton Rd) is also overdue for a freeway-to-freeway reconfiguration to uncork it. Having traffic bound for Broadway and Dutch Mill Rd combined with traffic to-from Stoughton Rd makes this a nasty bottleneck.

Redoing that mess was/is part of the grand plans for the Stoughton Rd corridor, which at least according to the project website, is scheduled to finally have a Final EIS around fall 2020. At least as of the last PIM, alternatives included a combination of a DDI at the interchange and flyover ramps or a modified echelon at Broadway. Given the current funding status, I'm thinking nothing major will happen until 2025.

I actually think they should put another exit on the interstate too.  Maybe at Buckeye Road?  I think that may relieve some of the pressure of traffic coming off the Beltline and heading to Stoughton Road. 

[SEWIGuy]

Have they seriously considered widening the Beltline to four lanes in each direction?

In many areas, they can't. They're either landlocked by development (especially with the transmission line that was erected several years back) or an environmental corridor. What they need is a southern bypass to connect to 151 by Verona. That should remove a lot of the heavy truck traffic that clogs things up between the beltline interchange and Verona Rd.

That's going to be very difficult too.  Really at this point they are stuck with the corridor.  It is really only stop and go during rush and for a pretty limited window of time.

Is there anything they could do along the County "M" corridor?

Coming up from Janesville, that was always the way to cut over from US 14 to US 18/151 without dealing with Madison.

I think it's too far south for local traffic.

[DaBigE]

The interchange at US-51 (Stoughton Rd) is also overdue for a freeway-to-freeway reconfiguration to uncork it. Having traffic bound for Broadway and Dutch Mill Rd combined with traffic to-from Stoughton Rd makes this a nasty bottleneck.

Redoing that mess was/is part of the grand plans for the Stoughton Rd corridor, which at least according to the project website, is scheduled to finally have a Final EIS around fall 2020. At least as of the last PIM, alternatives included a combination of a DDI at the interchange and flyover ramps or a modified echelon at Broadway. Given the current funding status, I'm thinking nothing major will happen until 2025.

I actually think they should put another exit on the interstate too.  Maybe at Buckeye Road?  I think that may relieve some of the pressure of traffic coming off the Beltline and heading to Stoughton Road.

Spacing-wise, Buckeye makes sense. But from the perspective of where the road ultimately goes/connectivity, I think Cottage Grove Rd would be a better choice. The latter would have a dramatic impact on response times for MPD and MFD along the interstate.

[triplemultiplex]

I'm loathed to add an interchange to 39/90.  That's only going to encourage more local traffic to use the interstate for short trips that should taken via local arterials.  I want the interstate to be mostly thru traffic.

I have some fictional mapping of the Beltline I should work on some more and show how I can get some parallel routes in along the freeway.

[SEWIGuy]

Playing around on the internet today, I found this proposal from 1950 for highway relocations in the Green Bay area.  Apparently this guy was politically connected and owned an engineering firm.

http://content.wisconsinhistory.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/maps/id/8003/rec/1

Interesting that the routes for "Temporary US-141" and "Future US-141" almost mirror the highways that were eventually built.  The relocated WI-29 between Green Bay and Suamico runs pretty much right through my house.   

[dvferyance]

The interchange at US-51 (Stoughton Rd) is also overdue for a freeway-to-freeway reconfiguration to uncork it. Having traffic bound for Broadway and Dutch Mill Rd combined with traffic to-from Stoughton Rd makes this a nasty bottleneck.

Redoing that mess was/is part of the grand plans for the Stoughton Rd corridor, which at least according to the project website, is scheduled to finally have a Final EIS around fall 2020. At least as of the last PIM, alternatives included a combination of a DDI at the interchange and flyover ramps or a modified echelon at Broadway. Given the current funding status, I'm thinking nothing major will happen until 2025.

I actually think they should put another exit on the interstate too.  Maybe at Buckeye Road?  I think that may relieve some of the pressure of traffic coming off the Beltline and heading to Stoughton Road.

Spacing-wise, Buckeye makes sense. But from the perspective of where the road ultimately goes/connectivity, I think Cottage Grove Rd would be a better choice. The latter would have a dramatic impact on response times for MPD and MFD along the interstate.

Not sure if an interchange there would work. WISDOT has a policy of interchanges being at least 2 miles apart except in urban areas and Cottage Grove Rd is just one mile from the I-94 WI-30 interchange. Buckeye makes sense as being half way between the 2 interchanges. One advantage Cottage Grove Rd has is that it goes much farther east while Buckeye Rd angles south and actually crosses the interstate again.

[mgk920]

Playing around on the internet today, I found this proposal from 1950 for highway relocations in the Green Bay area.  Apparently this guy was politically connected and owned an engineering firm.

http://content.wisconsinhistory.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/maps/id/8003/rec/1

Interesting that the routes for "Temporary US-141" and "Future US-141" almost mirror the highways that were eventually built.  The relocated WI-29 between Green Bay and Suamico runs pretty much right through my house.   

Even before then, a few years ago I saw an interesting planning map from the 1930s that showed a new 'Union Station' being proposed for a then edge of the urbanized city area on Green Bay's west side.  I want to say that the main railroad trackage that was to serve it was to run north-south in the area of Gross Ave.

Mike

[GeekJedi]

On another note - as I had predicted, WisDOT is slowly phasing out all US-41 signage that isn't on the mainline. I noticed today that the new signs on WI-100 at the I-43 NB ramp now only show I-41/I-43/I-894/US-45 and a new (To I-94). They removed the "standalone" US-41 sign that was there (and looked like an afterthought). I wouldn't be too surprised to even see mainline signage change in the future.

[SEWIGuy]

I thought phasing out the signage not on the mainline was part of the plan?  Regardless, they should just phase out all US-41 signage between the IL line and Green Bay.  No one will get confused.

[GeekJedi]

I thought phasing out the signage not on the mainline was part of the plan?  Regardless, they should just phase out all US-41 signage between the IL line and Green Bay.  No one will get confused.

Could've been, though I don't recall WisDOT mentioning that. What is interesting is that they put up US-41 signs in places like WI-100/I-43 in the first place, since US-41 was rerouted there because of I-41. So the signs were only up for a couple of years.

[dvferyance]

Does anyone have an pictures of the new Hwy 151 interchange near Ridgeway? I would love to see how it looks.

[triplemultiplex]

The new Fleet Farm in Madison (well, DeForest/Windsor; whatever) has a fun sign that should make some roadgeek heads explode:


Interesting idea, but the execution is... shitty.

[DaBigE]

The new Fleet Farm in Madison (well, DeForest/Windsor; whatever) has a fun sign that should make some roadgeek heads explode:


Interesting idea, but the execution is... shitty.

At least they used FHWA fonts. The question is, is this better or worse than Madison's naked Interstate shields?

I'm still impressed they used the WisDOT-spec arrow and not the smaller federal version. The fancy poles, sign backs/borders seem a little excessive, though. They also have an interesting use for a trombone arm at the other driveway, to prevent large trucks from using it.

[SSOWorld]

It's not all one sign!

[The Ghostbuster]

Imagine seeing that kind of shield along the side of the Interstates, or on the overhead signs. That would be awesome!

[jakeroot]

Imagine seeing that kind of shield along the side of the Interstates, or on the overhead signs. That would be awesome!

For half a second. And then my steering wheel would be covered in vomit. I'm gagging just looking at it here.

[sparker]

Imagine seeing that kind of shield along the side of the Interstates, or on the overhead signs. That would be awesome!

For half a second. And then my steering wheel would be covered in vomit. I'm gagging just looking at it here.

If they're like Caltrans district shops, they have stick-on reflective integers in a few sizes; they probably assembled it with a size enabling them to get all the numbers on the shield.  But they certainly need to do a better job of both kerning and vertical placement -- as well as vertical spacing; no need to smash all the numbers into the top portion of the blue field.  Chances are someone was simply in a hurry and couldn't be bothered to lay it out properly.  (n.b.: they probably have relatives in Caltrans' D4!)