AARoads Forum

I wanna create my own forum and I need help.

Google search is your friend.

Most web forums run as a PHP application that uses a MySQL database (or a compatible DBMS like MariaDB). Usually the workflow will be something like ensuring PHP and MySQL are running the required versions, create a MySQL user for the forum to interface with the database, then upload the forum software package to the server, unzip it, set the file permissions as appropriate (assuming you're running a Linux server, which why wouldn't you), then run the software package's installer (which will ask you, among other things, details about how to access the database using the user account you just created for it).

If the thought in your head after reading that is not "Oh, that seems simple enough", I would recommend researching each step individually. It is not a difficult process to go through if you're familiar with the underlying technologies. If you're not, I'd suggest setting up Apache and MySQL on your computer as a test system and spending a weekend or two screwing around learning how they work before spending the money to secure hosting and find out you have no interest in proceeding further.

Additionally: are you sure you want to create your own forum? It is no fun at all to go through the trouble of painstakingly setting up a forum and have nobody show up. This forum was successful because AARoads was already an established website (thereby ensuring that it comes up highly-ranked in search engines) and there was latent demand (MTR sucked and people wanted to move somewhere else, but nobody had stepped forward to provide that space yet). To create a successful forum, you need a clear topic of interest that would bring everyone together (on AARoads, that's roads) and a compelling reason to engage in that forum (such as there being no existing place to discuss the subject topic, or one that currently exists and is flawed).

If you're just curious how forums work and what it is like to be on the admin side, you can do most of that simply by installing a forum on Apache as described above and tinker with it knowing that it is just on a test site on your computer, and not feel bad if nobody wants to actually post on it.

Quote from: tolbs17 on February 28, 2021, 03:29:55 PM
I wanna create my own forum and I need help.

I will say this - don't try creating another roads forum. Others have tried, but this is too well-established at this point. If it's something roads-related, ask yourself if it's worth requesting another subpage here for a topic that maybe isn't getting enough discussion. If it's not roads-related, that's different.

Quote from: Alps on February 28, 2021, 09:31:32 PM

Quote from: tolbs17 on February 28, 2021, 03:29:55 PM
I wanna create my own forum and I need help.

I will say this - don't try creating another roads forum. Others have tried, but this is too well-established at this point. If it's something roads-related, ask yourself if it's worth requesting another subpage here for a topic that maybe isn't getting enough discussion. If it's not roads-related, that's different.

Even if it's not a US/Canada forum?

Quote from: 1 on February 28, 2021, 09:36:54 PM

Quote from: Alps on February 28, 2021, 09:31:32 PM

Quote from: tolbs17 on February 28, 2021, 03:29:55 PM
I wanna create my own forum and I need help.

I will say this - don't try creating another roads forum. Others have tried, but this is too well-established at this point. If it's something roads-related, ask yourself if it's worth requesting another subpage here for a topic that maybe isn't getting enough discussion. If it's not roads-related, that's different.

Even if it's not a US/Canada forum?

A subpage could be requested if there's sufficient interest.

Quote from: Alps on February 28, 2021, 09:31:32 PM

Quote from: tolbs17 on February 28, 2021, 03:29:55 PM
I wanna create my own forum and I need help.

I will say this - don't try creating another roads forum. Others have tried, but this is too well-established at this point. If it's something roads-related, ask yourself if it's worth requesting another subpage here for a topic that maybe isn't getting enough discussion. If it's not roads-related, that's different.

No, I was thinking of making a forum to put any random stuff there, less moderated.

Quote from: tolbs17 on February 28, 2021, 10:32:35 PM

Quote from: Alps on February 28, 2021, 09:31:32 PM

Quote from: tolbs17 on February 28, 2021, 03:29:55 PM
I wanna create my own forum and I need help.

I will say this - don't try creating another roads forum. Others have tried, but this is too well-established at this point. If it's something roads-related, ask yourself if it's worth requesting another subpage here for a topic that maybe isn't getting enough discussion. If it's not roads-related, that's different.

No, I was thinking of making a forum to put any random stuff there, less moderated.

Wow, that's original.  I'll bet nobody else has ever thought of doing that.

That bips

Quote from: tolbs17 on February 28, 2021, 10:32:35 PM

Quote from: Alps on February 28, 2021, 09:31:32 PM

Quote from: tolbs17 on February 28, 2021, 03:29:55 PM
I wanna create my own forum and I need help.

I will say this - don't try creating another roads forum. Others have tried, but this is too well-established at this point. If it's something roads-related, ask yourself if it's worth requesting another subpage here for a topic that maybe isn't getting enough discussion. If it's not roads-related, that's different.

No, I was thinking of making a forum to put any random stuff there, less moderated.

Facebook/Twitter/Tumblr/Reddit are already doing that. In marketing speak: what is your value proposition? Or in English: what will you offer that they currently don't?

Quote from: tolbs17 on February 28, 2021, 10:32:35 PM
No, I was thinking of making a forum to put any random stuff there, less moderated.

Sounds like something for a blog or website rather than a forum.

Quote from: webny99 on March 01, 2021, 08:50:43 AM

Quote from: tolbs17 on February 28, 2021, 10:32:35 PM
No, I was thinking of making a forum to put any random stuff there, less moderated.

Sounds like something for a blog or website rather than a forum.

kernals12 already does that, but he uses this forum.

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 01, 2021, 05:36:11 AM

Quote from: tolbs17 on February 28, 2021, 10:32:35 PM

Quote from: Alps on February 28, 2021, 09:31:32 PM

Quote from: tolbs17 on February 28, 2021, 03:29:55 PM
I wanna create my own forum and I need help.

I will say this - don't try creating another roads forum. Others have tried, but this is too well-established at this point. If it's something roads-related, ask yourself if it's worth requesting another subpage here for a topic that maybe isn't getting enough discussion. If it's not roads-related, that's different.

No, I was thinking of making a forum to put any random stuff there, less moderated.

Facebook/Twitter/Tumblr/Reddit are already doing that. In marketing speak: what is your value proposition? Or in English: what will you offer that they currently don't?

Comedy stuff!!!

Quote from: tolbs17 on February 28, 2021, 03:29:55 PM
I wanna create my own forum and I need help.

You're not alone, and we're here to help you.  There's an online support group that does Facbook live meetings every Thursday evening for people in just your situation.  You'd be surprised how many people wanted to create their own forum before finding the help they needed to overcome the urge.

---

Quote from: corco on February 28, 2021, 11:01:47 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/6hRMgBu.png)

FTFY.

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 01, 2021, 11:58:30 AM
Comedy stuff!!!

I dunno, I see a lot of funny stuff on social media already. I would suggest doing more market research.

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 01, 2021, 02:58:16 PM

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 01, 2021, 11:58:30 AM
Comedy stuff!!!

I dunno, I see a lot of funny stuff on social media already. I would suggest doing more market research.

Works too. Especially that I see many of that stuff.

There's probably at least 100 subreddits dedicated fo funny stuff out there.

Surprisingly not a large roads related sub yet there. There's some for railways and aviation, but not roads.

Quote from: SkyPesos on March 01, 2021, 08:33:52 PM
There's probably at least 100 subreddits dedicated fo funny stuff out there.

Surprisingly not a large roads related sub yet there. There's some for railways and aviation, but not roads.

I never got into Reddit. Of course, there's onerous moderation there. Didn't they take down the one dedicated to the 45th president of the United States (which, to my understanding, was created before he ran for president)?

You might want to establish a Google Group to see if it fills the bill. Google Groups can be accessed via email subscription or through the web-based interface.

Quote from: hbelkins on March 01, 2021, 08:58:01 PM
I never got into Reddit. Of course, there's onerous moderation there. Didn't they take down the one dedicated to the 45th president of the United States (which, to my understanding, was created before he ran for president)?

When QAnon is being discussed seriously (which even you have denounced here (http://kentuckyvalleyviews.blogspot.com/2020/07/reasons-for-healthy-skepticism.html)) (misremembered that link; other conspiracy theories were mentioned, but not QAnon), yes, it should be taken down.

I hate Reddit. Too many trolls and too few rules and mods/admins banning people. City-Data is definitely more strict (which I think can be a little too harsh) than this forum, but you can post pretty much anything you want there as long as it's appropriate. How about blackhatworld?

Quote from: 1 on March 01, 2021, 09:00:16 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on March 01, 2021, 08:58:01 PM
I never got into Reddit. Of course, there's onerous moderation there. Didn't they take down the one dedicated to the 45th president of the United States (which, to my understanding, was created before he ran for president)?

When QAnon is being discussed seriously (which even you have denounced here (http://kentuckyvalleyviews.blogspot.com/2020/07/reasons-for-healthy-skepticism.html)), yes, it should be taken down.

They also discuss Q seriously on the Star Trek subreddit, but that one hasn't been taken down. :sombrero:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke_AkJC92IA

Quote from: SkyPesos on March 01, 2021, 08:33:52 PM
There's probably at least 100 subreddits dedicated fo funny stuff out there.

Surprisingly not a large roads related sub yet there. There's some for railways and aviation, but not roads.

To be honest, I'm okay with that. Individual forums like AARoads are superior to anything we could ever be on Reddit. There are definitely positives to being on a centralized website: easier to create, easier to find, familiar interface, app integration, one account instead of multiple, etc.

However, I think the control that an individual website provides outweighs all of those. We set our own rules here, we handle users however we want, and we're not beholden to the "almighty gods" that are the Reddit admins. Plus, on a more technical side, I just think the forum format works better, where there are individual boards with subtopics, instead of just one subreddit with all these different flared posts. Other features can also be integrated into an individual website like the main AARoads site. We even have app integration with Tapatalk which is convenient for things like notifications.

I'm not saying a site like Reddit isn't useful. But AARoads being its own website makes it much more enjoyable to use.

I'm guessing the fonts and quotes would be in italic and the layout would look different compared to the SMF.

And the SMF was chosen in this forum cause it's probably free and the others are more costly I assume.

I have so many questions to ask.

Quote from: Scott5114 on February 28, 2021, 04:45:01 PM
Most web forums run as a PHP application that uses a MySQL database (or a compatible DBMS like MariaDB). Usually the workflow will be something like ensuring PHP and MySQL are running the required versions, create a MySQL user for the forum to interface with the database, then upload the forum software package to the server, unzip it, set the file permissions as appropriate (assuming you're running a Linux server, which why wouldn't you), then run the software package's installer (which will ask you, among other things, details about how to access the database using the user account you just created for it).

If the thought in your head after reading that is not "Oh, that seems simple enough", I would recommend researching each step individually. It is not a difficult process to go through if you're familiar with the underlying technologies. If you're not, I'd suggest setting up Apache and MySQL on your computer as a test system and spending a weekend or two screwing around learning how they work before spending the money to secure hosting and find out you have no interest in proceeding further.

Additionally: are you sure you want to create your own forum? It is no fun at all to go through the trouble of painstakingly setting up a forum and have nobody show up. This forum was successful because AARoads was already an established website (thereby ensuring that it comes up highly-ranked in search engines) and there was latent demand (MTR sucked and people wanted to move somewhere else, but nobody had stepped forward to provide that space yet). To create a successful forum, you need a clear topic of interest that would bring everyone together (on AARoads, that's roads) and a compelling reason to engage in that forum (such as there being no existing place to discuss the subject topic, or one that currently exists and is flawed).

If you're just curious how forums work and what it is like to be on the admin side, you can do most of that simply by installing a forum on Apache as described above and tinker with it knowing that it is just on a test site on your computer, and not feel bad if nobody wants to actually post on it.

Didn't read this cause I was at school, and NO i don't want to make my own forum as I have no money and would probably be pointless. Maybe I should start of making my own website if anything. I'm not a technician

Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 01, 2021, 10:38:29 PM
We set our own rules here, we handle users however we want, and we're not beholden to the "almighty gods" that are the Reddit admins.

Wait, Alex isn't an almighty god? I've never met him in person, so if anyone who has could clear up the issue of his divinity for me, it would be much appreciated.

(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-4e05ab7dd3e92b8bf46ba928da6b590e)
AARoads administrator Alex, probably. Taken at a roadmeet somewhere is my guess.

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 01, 2021, 10:45:24 PM
NO i don't want to make my own forum as I have no money and would probably be pointless. Maybe I should start of making my own website if anything. I'm not a technician

It would definitely be a good learning experience. Basic HTML is not that hard to write and knowing it can come in handy.

QuoteWhat if this forum was on a phpBB or VBulletin platform and not SMF?

Then the admin panel would look different, some of the features would be different, and the BBCode would be slightly different. Quotes being in italic or not are an option that can be done in the theme stylesheet. We could do that here if we wanted; it's not really tied to a software package. The default SMF theme, which I forked to make the Button Copy theme, didn't use italics, and I simply didn't change it when making the new theme. (I was too busy punching reflectors out of the "U" in "FORUM", I guess.)

phpBB is also free. The main reason we use SMF instead is because that's what Cody (V'Ger) picked, and we didn't change software after he was removed. I have moderated a phpBB forum as well, and it's not really that different.

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 01, 2021, 11:55:10 PM
Then the admin panel would look different, some of the features would be different, and the BBCode would be slightly different. Quotes being in italic or not are an option that can be done in the theme stylesheet. We could do that here if we wanted; it's not really tied to a software package. The default SMF theme, which I forked to make the Button Copy theme, didn't use italics, and I simply didn't change it when making the new theme. (I was too busy punching reflectors out of the "U" in "FORUM", I guess.)

phpBB is also free. The main reason we use SMF instead is because that's what Cody (V'Ger) picked, and we didn't change software after he was removed. I have moderated a phpBB forum as well, and it's not really that different.

And I'm guessing the font would be in Trebuchet MS. Most of the forums I have been on were using phpBB, but now they are getting updated so that's great but it's not like I care really. A forum is a forum. Whatever works the best, works. Is city-data like this?

Nah, I probably would have set it to font-family:sans-serif; if it wasn't already. Although I like Trebuchet, Linux doesn't have it installed by default, to say nothing of the various phones out there (not that any of those existed when I made Button Copy). It's nicer to use the browser's font settings so people can change them to whatever they like.

I have no idea what city-data is.

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 02, 2021, 12:53:52 AM
I have no idea what city-data is.

Presumably this: https://www.city-data.com/forum/

Quote from: tolbs17 on February 28, 2021, 03:29:55 PM
I wanna create my own forum and I need help.

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 01, 2021, 10:45:24 PM
NO i don't want to make my own forum as I have no money and would probably be pointless.

Looks like we helped.  Great job, everyone!      :clap:   :cheers:   :clap:

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 01, 2021, 11:43:09 PM

Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 01, 2021, 10:38:29 PM
We set our own rules here, we handle users however we want, and we're not beholden to the "almighty gods" that are the Reddit admins.

Wait, Alex isn't an almighty god? I've never met him in person, so if anyone who has could clear up the issue of his divinity for me, it would be much appreciated.

Alex is more of a demigod.  That's kind of like a less-Kabbalistic Demi Moore, but more famous than Demi Schuurs.

I have thought about a hypothetical "list of forum members, ranked" that I would never actually create because everyone would complain about his or her position in the list. However, I would place TheAlan360 and Ken Jennings above Alex.

Quote from: 1 on March 02, 2021, 09:59:23 AM
I have thought about a hypothetical "list of forum members, ranked" that I would never actually create because everyone would complain about his or her position in the list. However, I would place TheAlan360 and Ken Jennings above Alex.

I'll place Ethanman62187 up there too

Quote from: 1 on March 02, 2021, 09:59:23 AM
However, I would place ... Ken Jennings above Alex.

How about compared to Art Fleming? Or Pat Sajak's one-off episode in 1997?

Quote from: 1 on March 02, 2021, 09:59:23 AM
I have thought about a hypothetical "list of forum members, ranked" that I would never actually create because everyone would complain about his or her position in the list. However, I would place TheAlan360 and Ken Jennings above Alex.

You're right, of course. Alex may be able to do whatever he pleases as concerns this forum, but he's never had the authority to rule a Final Jeopardy! question right or wrong.

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 01, 2021, 11:43:09 PM

Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 01, 2021, 10:38:29 PM
We set our own rules here, we handle users however we want, and we're not beholden to the "almighty gods" that are the Reddit admins.

Wait, Alex isn't an almighty god? I've never met him in person, so if anyone who has could clear up the issue of his divinity for me, it would be much appreciated.

As long as he's not a Reddit admin!

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 01, 2021, 10:45:24 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on February 28, 2021, 04:45:01 PM
Most web forums run as a PHP application that uses a MySQL database (or a compatible DBMS like MariaDB). Usually the workflow will be something like ensuring PHP and MySQL are running the required versions, create a MySQL user for the forum to interface with the database, then upload the forum software package to the server, unzip it, set the file permissions as appropriate (assuming you're running a Linux server, which why wouldn't you), then run the software package's installer (which will ask you, among other things, details about how to access the database using the user account you just created for it).

If the thought in your head after reading that is not "Oh, that seems simple enough", I would recommend researching each step individually. It is not a difficult process to go through if you're familiar with the underlying technologies. If you're not, I'd suggest setting up Apache and MySQL on your computer as a test system and spending a weekend or two screwing around learning how they work before spending the money to secure hosting and find out you have no interest in proceeding further.

Additionally: are you sure you want to create your own forum? It is no fun at all to go through the trouble of painstakingly setting up a forum and have nobody show up. This forum was successful because AARoads was already an established website (thereby ensuring that it comes up highly-ranked in search engines) and there was latent demand (MTR sucked and people wanted to move somewhere else, but nobody had stepped forward to provide that space yet). To create a successful forum, you need a clear topic of interest that would bring everyone together (on AARoads, that's roads) and a compelling reason to engage in that forum (such as there being no existing place to discuss the subject topic, or one that currently exists and is flawed).

If you're just curious how forums work and what it is like to be on the admin side, you can do most of that simply by installing a forum on Apache as described above and tinker with it knowing that it is just on a test site on your computer, and not feel bad if nobody wants to actually post on it.

Didn't read this cause I was at school, and NO i don't want to make my own forum as I have no money and would probably be pointless. Maybe I should start of making my own website if anything. I'm not a technician

Geocities would've been right up your alley, if you weren't 20 years too late.

Other ISPs allowed you to have personal websites, many of which made use of the little used tilde ~ key.

Most ISPs did away with this ability several years ago; too many people abandoned their projects with the likes of Facebook and such, and it was taking up too much server space.

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 01, 2021, 09:00:41 PM
too few rules and mods/admins banning people.

That's actually a feature, not a bug -- and what I miss most about misc.transport.road. You had the ability to silence anyone you wanted in your own feed through the use of killfiles. Others were free to engage or not if they wished.

Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 01, 2021, 10:38:29 PMWe set our own rules here, we handle users however we want, and we're not beholden to the "almighty gods" that are the Reddit admins.

No, "we" don't make our own rules here and "we" don't handle users however "we" want. I have never been a part of any "we" that ever did any of those things, and since I don't see an admin tag by your name, I feel safe in saying you have never been part of that "we" either. A select group of moderators -- the "almighty gods" that are the AA Roads admins -- set the rules, make decisions on post deletions and warnings and bans and thread locks, and many of those decisions seem to be made on the basis of personal beliefs or hostility toward specific individuals. We're beholden to them.

Social media sites have completely computer-automated moderation now, though. Even if you disagree with the admins here, at least you can talk to the person that made the decision, and there's a chance we'll change our minds. At Facebook you may as well scream at a brick wall.

You can partially silence a user here if you want by using the ignore list in your profile. It's not perfect because you'll still see the ignored user's comments when others quote them, of course. I don't bother with the feature for precisely that reason.

Quote from: hbelkins on March 02, 2021, 10:52:59 PM

Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 01, 2021, 10:38:29 PMWe set our own rules here, we handle users however we want, and we're not beholden to the "almighty gods" that are the Reddit admins.

No, "we" don't make our own rules here and "we" don't handle users however "we" want. I have never been a part of any "we" that ever did any of those things, and since I don't see an admin tag by your name, I feel safe in saying you have never been part of that "we" either. A select group of moderators -- the "almighty gods" that are the AA Roads admins -- set the rules, make decisions on post deletions and warnings and bans and thread locks, and many of those decisions seem to be made on the basis of personal beliefs or hostility toward specific individuals. We're beholden to them.

That's right, but at least it's just our admins and mods who make the rules, not some admins watching over an entire network of subreddits.

Also, Scott's point is valid. If something goes wrong on Twitter, Facebook, or YouTube, you have essentially no way of contacting an actual human to fix your issues. Things aren't necessarily perfect, but it's obviously good enough, otherwise there would be a mass exodus to a new road forum.

Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 03, 2021, 07:44:57 AM
it's obviously good enough, otherwise there would be a mass exodus to a new road forum.

Yeah, someone even tried to start one because he didn't like a staff member here, but it never really took off, got hacked a few months later, and died a quiet death.

Even earlier, V'ger also tried to spin off another forum after the incident (using a database backup he took, too!), but that lasted only a couple days.

Quote from: hbelkins on March 02, 2021, 10:52:59 PM

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 01, 2021, 09:00:41 PM
too few rules and mods/admins banning people.

That's actually a feature, not a bug -- and what I miss most about misc.transport.road. You had the ability to silence anyone you wanted in your own feed through the use of killfiles. Others were free to engage or not if they wished.

Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 01, 2021, 10:38:29 PMWe set our own rules here, we handle users however we want, and we're not beholden to the "almighty gods" that are the Reddit admins.

No, "we" don't make our own rules here and "we" don't handle users however "we" want. I have never been a part of any "we" that ever did any of those things, and since I don't see an admin tag by your name, I feel safe in saying you have never been part of that "we" either. A select group of moderators -- the "almighty gods" that are the AA Roads admins -- set the rules, make decisions on post deletions and warnings and bans and thread locks, and many of those decisions seem to be made on the basis of personal beliefs or hostility toward specific individuals. We're beholden to them.

The vast majority of posts are unedited. Threads get locked or moved to the killfile if they devolve into hostility or personal attacks, or politics. We let quite a lot go.

I'm actually interested what determines whether a thread gets moved to the killfile as opposed to being locked.

The judgement of whichever moderator stumbles upon the post first has a lot to do with it. There isn't like a flowchart or anything that we all follow, we each enforce the rules that are publicly available to the users and simply try to do what we feel is right under the circumstances. I tend to be on the stricter end; other moderators are often more lax.

My personal philosophy when it comes to when to kill individual posts (usually by hiding them from public view, but occasionally outright deleting them if they were contentless enough that there is no plausible need to refer to them) rather than to lock a thread is if there is any hope that a meaningful, interesting conversation could theoretically be had should the bad posts be excised. If it's possible to keep a discussion going (for example, if there's a good conversation going on a topic and a noxious side discussion starts), then I kill the bad posts and leave the thread going. If the whole thread is noxious (e.g. if it started as a bad trolling attempt, or there is no way to continue with it while following the forum rules, or the users insist on relitigating whatever issue was discussed in the killed posts), then a lock is warranted.

Generally I won't kill an entire thread, unless being public and locked makes it a likely source of disruption elsewhere. For example, if someone were to make a thread titled "webny99 sucks!" filled with insults, there is really no good reason to leave it public, since it serves no purpose other than to try to make you upset, and if it succeeds it could cause you to escalate the matter when you encounter that user in another thread. Another example of a thread I would hide is if a thread reflects badly on the community, e.g. they're racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. It is better to hide those sorts of threads to prevent undue harm to any members that fall in the class it was directed at reading it.

In general, though, we have no hard and fast rules about when to do what, so a thread I might leave in place might be a thread that Steve would hide, or vice versa.

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 03, 2021, 10:25:30 PM
The judgement of whichever moderator stumbles upon the post first has a lot to do with it. There isn't like a flowchart or anything that we all follow, we each enforce the rules that are publicly available to the users and simply try to do what we feel is right under the circumstances.
...

In general, though, we have no hard and fast rules about when to do what, so a thread I might leave in place might be a thread that Steve would hide, or vice versa.

Thanks! As someone who spends more than my fair share of time here, I found that really interesting and think it's a good thing when the mods and admin are free to share stuff like this. Hopefully other users feel the same way.

This didn't occur to me until this very moment, but one thing I think might be valuable is a post or notification of some sort from the moderator when part of a discussion is removed. I get that it might not be desirable to draw attention to removed content, but on a couple occasions I've had posts just disappear (usually due to me replying to something egregious, rather than initiating it... at least so I like to think) and been confused by it, so I'd find a simple "Inappropriate discussion removed" or something similar helpful and informative.

Quote from: webny99 on March 03, 2021, 11:19:33 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 03, 2021, 10:25:30 PM
The judgement of whichever moderator stumbles upon the post first has a lot to do with it. There isn't like a flowchart or anything that we all follow, we each enforce the rules that are publicly available to the users and simply try to do what we feel is right under the circumstances.
...

In general, though, we have no hard and fast rules about when to do what, so a thread I might leave in place might be a thread that Steve would hide, or vice versa.

Thanks! As someone who spends more than my fair share of time here, I found that really interesting and think it's a good thing when the mods and admin are free to share stuff like this. Hopefully other users feel the same way.

This didn't occur to me until this very moment, but one thing I think might be valuable is a post or notification of some sort from the moderator when part of a discussion is removed. I get that it might not be desirable to draw attention to removed content, but on a couple occasions I've had posts just disappear (usually due to me replying to something egregious, rather than initiating it... at least so I like to think) and been confused by it, so I'd find a simple "Inappropriate discussion removed" or something similar helpful and informative.

I'll take the blame for having the philosophy of being quiet about it.

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 03, 2021, 10:25:30 PM
.... For example, if someone were to make a thread titled "webny99 sucks!" filled with insults, there is really no good reason to leave it public, since it serves no purpose other than to try to make you upset, and if it succeeds it could cause you to escalate the matter when you encounter that user in another thread. ....

Marf may be banned, but he lives on in memory!

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 04, 2021, 07:37:12 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 03, 2021, 10:25:30 PM
.... For example, if someone were to make a thread titled "webny99 sucks!" filled with insults, there is really no good reason to leave it public, since it serves no purpose other than to try to make you upset, and if it succeeds it could cause you to escalate the matter when you encounter that user in another thread. ....

Marf may be banned, but he lives on in memory!

And I made about US71 becoming a mod again and I didn't get in trouble

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 04, 2021, 07:44:18 AM

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 04, 2021, 07:37:12 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 03, 2021, 10:25:30 PM
.... For example, if someone were to make a thread titled "webny99 sucks!" filled with insults, there is really no good reason to leave it public, since it serves no purpose other than to try to make you upset, and if it succeeds it could cause you to escalate the matter when you encounter that user in another thread. ....

Marf may be banned, but he lives on in memory!

And I made about US71 becoming a mod again and I didn't get in trouble

US 71 should become a mod again. I was the one who pointed out the problem with what he posted, and I didn't think it was worthy of desysopping (mainly since it was a comment that had nothing to do with moderation).

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 04, 2021, 07:44:18 AM

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 04, 2021, 07:37:12 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 03, 2021, 10:25:30 PM
.... For example, if someone were to make a thread titled "webny99 sucks!" filled with insults, there is really no good reason to leave it public, since it serves no purpose other than to try to make you upset, and if it succeeds it could cause you to escalate the matter when you encounter that user in another thread. ....

Marf may be banned, but he lives on in memory!

And I made about US71 becoming a mod again and I didn't get in trouble

I was referring more to Marf starting various threads that opened with flat-out attacks on webny99. Far more overt and nasty attacks than the thread that was deleted from the Urban Planning board earlier this week–while that thread probably had to go, all the comments there were exceptionally civilized by comparison (although, given just how nasty Marf got, I suppose that's not necessarily saying much!).

Quote from: webny99 on March 03, 2021, 11:19:33 PM
one thing I think might be valuable is a post or notification of some sort from the moderator when part of a discussion is removed.

This has been the case on two other forums I've participated in.  You'd get a PM from the mod.

Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:07:43 AM

Quote from: webny99 on March 03, 2021, 11:19:33 PM
one thing I think might be valuable is a post or notification of some sort from the moderator when part of a discussion is removed.

This has been the case on two other forums I've participated in.  You'd get a PM from the mod.

I could see that working as well, but unless it's somehow automated it could get a bit cumbersome. It's really relevant to everyone following thread, not just those who had post(s) removed.

Quote from: webny99 on March 04, 2021, 01:10:50 PM

Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:07:43 AM

Quote from: webny99 on March 03, 2021, 11:19:33 PM
one thing I think might be valuable is a post or notification of some sort from the moderator when part of a discussion is removed.

This has been the case on two other forums I've participated in.  You'd get a PM from the mod.

I could see that working as well, but unless it's somehow automated it could get a bit cumbersome. It's really relevant to everyone following thread, not just those who had post(s) removed.

I don't think it's necessarily relevant to others.

If someone's post was removed or edited, then it must be because it violated forum rules.  And if that's the case, then you've already read the reason why when you read the forum rules.  Only the person who wrote the post needs to have specific guidance.

On the other hand, if someone's else's post was removed or edited for some less-legitimate reason, then that's not your battle to fight.  It's the other person's battle.

Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 01:30:09 PM

Quote from: webny99 on March 04, 2021, 01:10:50 PM

Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:07:43 AM

Quote from: webny99 on March 03, 2021, 11:19:33 PM
one thing I think might be valuable is a post or notification of some sort from the moderator when part of a discussion is removed.

This has been the case on two other forums I've participated in.  You'd get a PM from the mod.

I could see that working as well, but unless it's somehow automated it could get a bit cumbersome. It's really relevant to everyone following thread, not just those who had post(s) removed.

I don't think it's necessarily relevant to others.

If someone's post was removed or edited, then it must be because it violated forum rules.  And if that's the case, then you've already read the reason why when you read the forum rules.  Only the person who wrote the post needs to have specific guidance.

On the other hand, if someone's else's post was removed or edited for some less-legitimate reason, then that's not your battle to fight.  It's the other person's battle.

I've had several of my posts removed when the entire subdiscussion was problematic, but I was clearly not at fault (sometimes a heated argument between A and B where I do a fact check or make a joke one-liner, or sometimes it's a single person who is the problem).

Quote from: 1 on March 04, 2021, 01:33:09 PM
I've had several of my posts removed when the entire subdiscussion was problematic, but I was clearly not at fault (sometimes a heated argument between A and B where I do a fact check or make a joke one-liner, or sometimes it's a single person who is the problem).

And that's a fight you could have taken up with the moderators.  It's not a fight that I should take up with them, so I don't need to know what went on.

Usually, we only send a message upon removing a post as part of a formal warning through the board's warning system. This warning system allows us to issue up to 100 points to a user. When a user reaches 31 or more points, a moderator must approve each of the user's posts before it is displayed to the public. At 90 or more points, the user is muted and cannot post at all. One point expires per day, so a user's warning level will degrade naturally.

Basically, if a post is removed without a message being sent, the matter is more or less considered settled by the removal, and we didn't feel  additional admonishment through PM was warranted. I can appreciate that this may sometimes be baffling, though, so I can definitely start providing a PM to the members in question whenever I remove posts.

Quote from: 1 on March 04, 2021, 01:33:09 PM
I've had several of my posts removed when the entire subdiscussion was problematic, but I was clearly not at fault (sometimes a heated argument between A and B where I do a fact check or make a joke one-liner, or sometimes it's a single person who is the problem).

We do check context when deciding when to remove posts. A post will still be removed even if it doesn't violate the rules, if removal of other posts results in the context of the given post being missing. The idea is that we don't want a straggler post clearly referring to something that is missing causing a side discussion about what was there before, which returns the conversation to the topic that caused the posts to be removed anyway.

Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 01:30:09 PM
I don't think it's necessarily relevant to others.

If someone's post was removed or edited, then it must be because it violated forum rules.  And if that's the case, then you've already read the reason why when you read the forum rules.  Only the person who wrote the post needs to have specific guidance.

Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 01:36:23 PM

Quote from: 1 on March 04, 2021, 01:33:09 PM
I've had several of my posts removed when the entire subdiscussion was problematic, but I was clearly not at fault (sometimes a heated argument between A and B where I do a fact check or make a joke one-liner, or sometimes it's a single person who is the problem).

And that's a fight you could have taken up with the moderators.  It's not a fight that I should take up with them, so I don't need to know what went on.

I don't think the removal of the posts themselves is the issue. I'm not thinking of it as a matter of "guidance" or "taking up a fight" so much as a matter of general interest to forum users, so they don't think they're going crazy in "now you see it, now you don't" post removal scenarios. Especially if they posted to a thread and then later can't find the post/discussion.

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 01:49:24 PM
Basically, if a post is removed without a message being sent, the matter is more or less considered settled by the removal, and we didn't feel  additional admonishment through PM was warranted. I can appreciate that this may sometimes be baffling, though, so I can definitely start providing a PM to the members in question whenever I remove posts.

I can't speak for others, but I would appreciate that as long as it's not too cumbersome from your standpoint. Even a single message to everyone affected using BCC would probably work.

Quote from: webny99 on March 04, 2021, 03:11:33 PM
I don't think the removal of the posts themselves is the issue. I'm not thinking of it as a matter of "guidance" or "taking up a fight" so much as a matter of general interest to forum users, so they don't think they're going crazy in "now you see it, now you don't" post removal scenarios. Especially if they posted to a thread and then later can't find the post/discussion.

Well, if I were a moderator, then I wouldn't consider "general interest" a very good reason to make corrective action publicly visible.

If a user had his or her own post removed and can't find it later, then yeah, that person should have received notification about what happened.  But it isn't like it's my right to know what happened to one of your posts.

(I've had posts removed with no PM from a mod.  Maybe some purple text, maybe not.  But I also knew I had it coming.)

Really, the best course of action when multiple posts are removed should be a single line of purple text from the mod:

Removed posts discussing religion.
Personal attacks removed from thread.
Edited posts to remove gratuitous profanity.
Etc.

Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 03:17:54 PM
....

(I've had posts removed with no PM from a mod.  Maybe some purple text, maybe not.  But I also knew I had it coming.)

As have I, as recently as this week, and I had a pretty good sense the most recent one would be deleted when I made my comment, although I was careful to try to word it as neutrally as possible.

Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 03:17:54 PM
Well, if I were a moderator, then I wouldn't consider "general interest" a very good reason to make corrective action publicly visible.

If a user had his or her own post removed and can't find it later, then yeah, that person should have received notification about what happened.  But it isn't like it's my right to know what happened to one of your posts.

That's fair. When I originally suggested a post to the thread rather than a PM, my thought was that someone following the thread could say "Hey, weren't we talking about [topic X]?" or "What happened to [discussion Y]?" or something similar, and that would re-open the can of worms (no, not this one (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Can_of_Worms_(interchange))  ;-)).

Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 03:23:22 PM
Really, the best course of action when multiple posts are removed should be a single line of purple text from the mod:
...

Well, that was what I was thinking all along. How often does a single post get removed? Not very often, if ever?

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 04, 2021, 03:28:39 PM

Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 03:17:54 PM
(I've had posts removed with no PM from a mod.  Maybe some purple text, maybe not.  But I also knew I had it coming.)

As have I, as recently as this week. ...

Same here, and probably a different thread than you were referring to judging from my memory and the context.

Quote from: webny99 on March 04, 2021, 03:37:57 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 04, 2021, 03:28:39 PM

Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 03:17:54 PM
(I've had posts removed with no PM from a mod.  Maybe some purple text, maybe not.  But I also knew I had it coming.)

As have I, as recently as this week. ...

Same here, and probably a different thread than you were referring to judging from my memory and the context.

I don't recall you posting in the thread I reference. It's on the Urban Planning subforum and the thread is an obvious parody of one particular poster, but Alps modified it (and deleted a bunch of posts) to make it less blatantly obvious which poster that is. I assume I need not, and probably should not, say who it is.

Well, at least you possess a grain of wisdom.  Or even a dozen grains of wisdom.

Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 04:08:52 PM
Well, at least you possess a grain of wisdom.  Or even a dozen grains of wisdom.

Ooh... I think I see what you did there. Very clever.

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 01:49:24 PM
Usually, we only send a message upon removing a post as part of a formal warning through the board's warning system. This warning system allows us to issue up to 100 points to a user. When a user reaches 31 or more points, a moderator must approve each of the user's posts before it is displayed to the public. At 90 or more points, the user is muted and cannot post at all. One point expires per day, so a user's warning level will degrade naturally.

Is there a way for the average user to know how many points they have, or is this something that's internal and only shared between the administrators?  Asking for a friend.   :spin:

Quote from: renegade on March 04, 2021, 04:22:55 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 01:49:24 PM
Usually, we only send a message upon removing a post as part of a formal warning through the board's warning system. This warning system allows us to issue up to 100 points to a user. When a user reaches 31 or more points, a moderator must approve each of the user's posts before it is displayed to the public. At 90 or more points, the user is muted and cannot post at all. One point expires per day, so a user's warning level will degrade naturally.

Is there a way for the average user to know how many points they have, or is this something that's internal and only shared between the administrators?  Asking for a friend.   :spin:

If you don't see any number for yourself, you're at 0.

Quote from: hbelkins on March 02, 2021, 10:52:59 PM
That's actually a feature, not a bug -- and what I miss most about misc.transport.road. You had the ability to silence anyone you wanted in your own feed through the use of killfiles. Others were free to engage or not if they wished.

Bear with me, as I've never been on misc.transport.road.  But wouldn't that also prevent you from seeing valuable posts by that user as well?  I mean, if I had "silenced" NE2 years ago, then I wouldn't get to reap the benefits of his encyclopedic knowledge about 80-year-old highway routings.

Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 04:26:49 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on March 02, 2021, 10:52:59 PM
That's actually a feature, not a bug -- and what I miss most about misc.transport.road. You had the ability to silence anyone you wanted in your own feed through the use of killfiles. Others were free to engage or not if they wished.

Bear with me, as I've never been on misc.transport.road.  But wouldn't that also prevent you from seeing valuable posts by that user as well?  I mean, if I had "silenced" NE2 years ago, then I wouldn't get to reap the benefits of his encyclopedic knowledge about 80-year-old highway routings.

dzlsabe, on the other hand...

Quote from: 1 on March 04, 2021, 04:23:50 PM

Quote from: renegade on March 04, 2021, 04:22:55 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 01:49:24 PM
Usually, we only send a message upon removing a post as part of a formal warning through the board's warning system. This warning system allows us to issue up to 100 points to a user. When a user reaches 31 or more points, a moderator must approve each of the user's posts before it is displayed to the public. At 90 or more points, the user is muted and cannot post at all. One point expires per day, so a user's warning level will degrade naturally.

Is there a way for the average user to know how many points they have, or is this something that's internal and only shared between the administrators?  Asking for a friend.   :spin:

If you don't see any number for yourself, you're at 0.

Yes, this is correct. I learned this the hard way once. You would know if you had points, not only because you'd get a PM from a mod, but also because your warning level displays (IIRC) right near the online/offline icon.

Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 04:08:52 PM
Well, at least you possess a grain of wisdom.  Or even a dozen grains of wisdom.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

---

Quote from: webny99 on March 04, 2021, 04:41:08 PM

Quote from: 1 on March 04, 2021, 04:23:50 PM

Quote from: renegade on March 04, 2021, 04:22:55 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 01:49:24 PM
Usually, we only send a message upon removing a post as part of a formal warning through the board's warning system. This warning system allows us to issue up to 100 points to a user. When a user reaches 31 or more points, a moderator must approve each of the user's posts before it is displayed to the public. At 90 or more points, the user is muted and cannot post at all. One point expires per day, so a user's warning level will degrade naturally.

Is there a way for the average user to know how many points they have, or is this something that's internal and only shared between the administrators?  Asking for a friend.   :spin:

If you don't see any number for yourself, you're at 0.

Yes, this is correct. I learned this the hard way once. You would know if you had points, not only because you'd get a PM from a mod, but also because your warning level displays (IIRC) right near the online/offline icon.

Yup, I learned the same through experience once (I was given a warning for baiting NE2, of all people). You receive a PM that says "You have received a warning" and is from user "AARoads Forum," and your point total is visible to you in your profile.

Quote from: 1 on March 04, 2021, 04:38:01 PM

Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 04:26:49 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on March 02, 2021, 10:52:59 PM
That's actually a feature, not a bug -- and what I miss most about misc.transport.road. You had the ability to silence anyone you wanted in your own feed through the use of killfiles. Others were free to engage or not if they wished.

Bear with me, as I've never been on misc.transport.road.  But wouldn't that also prevent you from seeing valuable posts by that user as well?  I mean, if I had "silenced" NE2 years ago, then I wouldn't get to reap the benefits of his encyclopedic knowledge about 80-year-old highway routings.

dzlsabe, on the other hand...

Be careful what you wish for.

I personally don't modify posts unless I'm fixing URLs for people, turning images into links (if is a 20+ MB GIF image), fixing quotes, or moving threads to the correct section.  I mostly just deal with stuff on the backend.  So, if you see me doing MOD duty in a thread, please take it to heart, as it must be pretty bad for me to step in, as I prefer to let the other Admins/Mods do their thing.

Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 03:23:22 PM
Really, the best course of action when multiple posts are removed should be a single line of purple text from the mod:

Removed posts discussing religion.
Personal attacks removed from thread.
Edited posts to remove gratuitous profanity.
Etc.

I got warned after there was an offensive post from me (they were removed), on the Pork thread in the Off-topic board. I wasn't thinking straight, so I'll learn.

https://www.proboards.com/
You can make your own forum on Proboards.

Quote from: bing101 on March 04, 2021, 08:13:34 PM
https://www.proboards.com/
You can make your own forum on Proboards.

Some of them remind me like the layouts that they used in the early-mid 2000s.

Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:07:43 AM

Quote from: webny99 on March 03, 2021, 11:19:33 PM
one thing I think might be valuable is a post or notification of some sort from the moderator when part of a discussion is removed.

This has been the case on two other forums I've participated in.  You'd get a PM from the mod.

Sorry. I've been exceptionally busy lately so I just move the thread and move on. I should do better.

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 01:49:24 PM
Usually, we only send a message upon removing a post as part of a formal warning through the board's warning system. This warning system allows us to issue up to 100 points to a user. When a user reaches 31 or more points, a moderator must approve each of the user's posts before it is displayed to the public. At 90 or more points, the user is muted and cannot post at all. One point expires per day, so a user's warning level will degrade naturally.

Basically, if a post is removed without a message being sent, the matter is more or less considered settled by the removal, and we didn't feel  additional admonishment through PM was warranted. I can appreciate that this may sometimes be baffling, though, so I can definitely start providing a PM to the members in question whenever I remove posts.

Quote from: 1 on March 04, 2021, 01:33:09 PM
I've had several of my posts removed when the entire subdiscussion was problematic, but I was clearly not at fault (sometimes a heated argument between A and B where I do a fact check or make a joke one-liner, or sometimes it's a single person who is the problem).

We do check context when deciding when to remove posts. A post will still be removed even if it doesn't violate the rules, if removal of other posts results in the context of the given post being missing. The idea is that we don't want a straggler post clearly referring to something that is missing causing a side discussion about what was there before, which returns the conversation to the topic that caused the posts to be removed anyway.

I'm pretty sure I got 25 points cause of that offensive post (I obviously didn't know what to say but I wanted to be hilarious), maybe I shouldn't of said anything at all.

What's the difference of being watched and not watched mean?

Also, I'm guessing being moderated and muted is to prevent bans from happening.

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 04, 2021, 04:42:50 PM

Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 04:08:52 PM
Well, at least you possess a grain of wisdom.  Or even a dozen grains of wisdom.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

---

Quote from: webny99 on March 04, 2021, 04:41:08 PM

Quote from: 1 on March 04, 2021, 04:23:50 PM

Quote from: renegade on March 04, 2021, 04:22:55 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 01:49:24 PM
Usually, we only send a message upon removing a post as part of a formal warning through the board's warning system. This warning system allows us to issue up to 100 points to a user. When a user reaches 31 or more points, a moderator must approve each of the user's posts before it is displayed to the public. At 90 or more points, the user is muted and cannot post at all. One point expires per day, so a user's warning level will degrade naturally.

Is there a way for the average user to know how many points they have, or is this something that's internal and only shared between the administrators?  Asking for a friend.   :spin:

If you don't see any number for yourself, you're at 0.

Yes, this is correct. I learned this the hard way once. You would know if you had points, not only because you'd get a PM from a mod, but also because your warning level displays (IIRC) right near the online/offline icon.

Yup, I learned the same through experience once (I was given a warning for baiting NE2, of all people). You receive a PM that says "You have received a warning" and is from user "AARoads Forum," and your point total is visible to you in your profile.

I'm guessing the AARoads Forum is from the admins or the global mods.

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 04, 2021, 08:24:32 PM
What's the difference of being watched and not watched mean?

We have access to the following menu in our moderation panel:
(https://i.imgur.com/vUwC5AZ.png)
"Member" shows a list of all watched members. "View by post" shows all of the recent posts by all watched members (just their posts, not the rest of the thread).

If you are not watched (you have 0 points), you will not show up on either of these lists. The vast majority of members have 0 points most of the time. Currently, there are six members on the watchlist, which is a higher number than usual.

Quote
Also, I'm guessing being moderated and muted is to prevent bans from happening.

Correct. Moderation points and bans are separate tools, because moderation points expire automatically, while bans expire at the time and date we set (which can be "never"). Moderators and administrators can both issue moderation points, but only an administrator can issue a ban. The hope is that moderation/muting will get a user's attention and cause them to change their behavior so a ban will not be necessary. Although sometimes it has the opposite effect.

If you don't mind my asking, how many users have been banned? (Obviously I know the stat is imperfect due to sockpuppets, such as the Marves.)

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 08:38:02 PM

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 04, 2021, 08:24:32 PM
What's the difference of being watched and not watched mean?

We have access to the following menu in our moderation panel:
(https://i.imgur.com/vUwC5AZ.png)
"Member" shows a list of all watched members. "View by post" shows all of the recent posts by all watched members (just their posts, not the rest of the thread).

If you are not watched (you have 0 points), you will not show up on either of these lists. The vast majority of members have 0 points most of the time. Currently, there are six members on the watchlist, which is a higher number than usual.

Quote
Also, I'm guessing being moderated and muted is to prevent bans from happening.

Correct. Moderation points and bans are separate tools, because moderation points expire automatically, while bans expire at the time and date we set (which can be "never"). Moderators and administrators can both issue moderation points, but only an administrator can issue a ban. The hope is that moderation/muting will get a user's attention and cause them to change their behavior so a ban will not be necessary. Although sometimes it has the opposite effect.

I get it now, thanks.

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 04, 2021, 08:43:29 PM
If you don't mind my asking, how many users have been banned? (Obviously I know the stat is imperfect due to sockpuppets, such as the Marves.)

4078 members using the default theme + 7 using other themes - 4041 members in the members list = 44 members who have either had been banned or had their accounts deleted entirely.

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 04, 2021, 08:43:29 PM
If you don't mind my asking, how many users have been banned? (Obviously I know the stat is imperfect due to sockpuppets, such as the Marves.)

Hard to say for sure, since we can ban by username or IP range, and we have a few large-ish IP ranges banned for originating spam accounts. Also, if we issue a ban and it expires, then we issue a new ban for the same user, that is counted as a new ban. Expired bans also still show in the list.

Quote from: 1 on March 04, 2021, 08:48:12 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 04, 2021, 08:43:29 PM
If you don't mind my asking, how many users have been banned? (Obviously I know the stat is imperfect due to sockpuppets, such as the Marves.)

4078 members using the default theme + 7 using other themes - 4041 members in the members list = 44 members who have either had been banned or had their accounts deleted entirely.

Okay, maybe not as hard as I thought.

I want to know who the two masochists that have everything set to display in Clearview are.

I see some folks here have the same questions/concerns I do sometimes; that being unexplained moderation decisions. DIfferent people perceive things differently. An individual moderator might take something that's posted entirely differently than another reader, or the person who made the post. The poster may believe in good faith they are not violating any forum guidelines. Hence my recent question about the locking of the RIP Rush Limbaugh thread. The moderator who made that decision came to the conclusion that because Limbaugh was a political commentator, any discussion of him was a political discussion; even one mourning his death while other prominent celebrities are eulogized here often.

I think moderation transparency is important. If something is deleted, a thread is locked, or some other decision is made that comes without a system-generated warning, it would be helpful to know why the decision was made.

Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 04:26:49 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on March 02, 2021, 10:52:59 PM
That's actually a feature, not a bug -- and what I miss most about misc.transport.road. You had the ability to silence anyone you wanted in your own feed through the use of killfiles. Others were free to engage or not if they wished.

Bear with me, as I've never been on misc.transport.road.  But wouldn't that also prevent you from seeing valuable posts by that user as well?  I mean, if I had "silenced" NE2 years ago, then I wouldn't get to reap the benefits of his encyclopedic knowledge about 80-year-old highway routings.

That's a risk I was willing to take. I killfiled Randy Hersh and all his numerous identities as they would pop up. He was toxic and if I missed some tidbit of his, so be it. Same for John Lansford. I got tired of his leftist rantings and his NCDOT superiority complex so I eventually plonked him.

Of course, a Usenet killfile doesn't keep you from seeing what they posted if it's quoted. The biggest difference between that and the "ignore user" feature here is that you see the fact that the ignored poster posted something and you have the option to read it. I've tried it with a couple of posters here but it wasn't worth the effort, and I eventually un-ignored them.

Quote from: hbelkins on March 04, 2021, 09:48:46 PM
Hence my recent question about the locking of the RIP Rush Limbaugh thread. The moderator who made that decision came to the conclusion that because Limbaugh was a political commentator, any discussion of him was a political discussion; even one mourning his death while other prominent celebrities are eulogized here often.

We had a discussion between the moderators on that one, in which I stated my opinion that we probably shouldn't have any celebrity eulogies here, since it's not like any of us can offer any unique perspectives on their life and career that isn't just a rehash of their IMDB profile or Wikipedia page. My position was not very popular among the staff.  :-D

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 09:59:35 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on March 04, 2021, 09:48:46 PM
Hence my recent question about the locking of the RIP Rush Limbaugh thread. The moderator who made that decision came to the conclusion that because Limbaugh was a political commentator, any discussion of him was a political discussion; even one mourning his death while other prominent celebrities are eulogized here often.

We had a discussion between the moderators on that one, in which I stated my opinion that we probably shouldn't have any celebrity eulogies here, since it's not like any of us can offer any unique perspectives on their life and career that isn't just a rehash of their IMDB profile or Wikipedia page. My position was not very popular among the staff.  :-D

For what it's worth, I thought it was an over-step to lock that thread without so much as a warning or even reasonable explanation.

I also thought there was a 35% chance HB had posted it as troll bait to begin with.

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 04, 2021, 08:15:15 PM

Quote from: bing101 on March 04, 2021, 08:13:34 PM
https://www.proboards.com/ (https://www.proboards.com/)
You can make your own forum on Proboards.

Some of them remind me like the layouts that they used in the early-mid 2000s.

https://xenforo.com/
https://simplemachines.org/
https://www.vbulletin.com/
Here are the other ones for forums.

Quote from: kphoger on March 04, 2021, 10:25:09 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 09:59:35 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on March 04, 2021, 09:48:46 PM
Hence my recent question about the locking of the RIP Rush Limbaugh thread. The moderator who made that decision came to the conclusion that because Limbaugh was a political commentator, any discussion of him was a political discussion; even one mourning his death while other prominent celebrities are eulogized here often.

We had a discussion between the moderators on that one, in which I stated my opinion that we probably shouldn't have any celebrity eulogies here, since it's not like any of us can offer any unique perspectives on their life and career that isn't just a rehash of their IMDB profile or Wikipedia page. My position was not very popular among the staff.  :-D

For what it's worth, I thought it was an over-step to lock that thread without so much as a warning or even reasonable explanation.

Not that it really matters at this point, but I agree.

There was basically three possibilities:
(1) No discussion occurs
(2) A reasonable discussion occurs
(3) The discussion goes off the rails

Even if (3) is the most likely, (1) and (2) should have at least be given a fair chance.

Well, in the case of Limbaugh...political discussion is against the rules unless it is related to roads. We don't want it on the forum. At all. Because this forum has a bunch of conservatives and a bunch of liberals, and if we let people talk about politics then half of the forum will end up hating the other half, and then we won't have a forum anymore. (See the old covid thread that got locked this summer for an example of what we don't want.)

So it's against the rules. We have to make an exception for a little bit of politics because roads are built by government agencies. Why anyone would want to discuss politics here is beyond me anyway. There are places set up on the Internet for doing that, and they're probably more interesting because their posters think about politics as much as we think about Clearview or APLs.

So you get a Rush Limbaugh thread. Rush Limbaugh was a politician. Or, rather, he's a radio host, who only talked about politics, and very strongly advocated for a certain type of politics. There is no way to have an opinion on the man that does not reflect his political preferences, since that is the only reason he's famous. I couldn't tell you one thing about the guy's personal life, but I damn sure know who he voted for President.

So take what there is to discuss about Rush Limbaugh, and subtract things that are against the forum rules (politics). What's left? Goose egg. That means a lock.

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 11:16:09 PM
I couldn't tell you one thing about the guy's personal life, but I damn sure know who he voted for President.

Isn't that political?   :poke:

It was clear as soon as it was posted that the Rush Limbaugh obit thread would be closed because of the subject. I did kind of regret that it was closed after the lone response was from NE2 saying simply "No." I feel pretty strongly that regardless of how someone feels about someone else's politics, influence in society, etc., it is inappropriate to "celebrate" or "be happy about" someone dying of cancer. That's different from "not mourning" someone's death–in other words, there's a difference between "I'm not sorry to see that person gone" and expressing glee about someone dying of cancer. The latter, I think, is highly inappropriate, but we saw a lot of that from certain quarters when Rush Limbaugh died and, frankly, I was rather surprised that NE2 didn't post something along those lines given other political comments he's made in the past. It was inevitable that, had that thread not been locked, it would have turned into that sort of thing, so the moderators were probably right to close it, but I thought it was unfortunate that it was closed the way it was with that single-word post as the final word.

I've read through everything since my last post on this topic. I appreciate all the explanations of what goes on with moderation here. This is the kind of stuff Reddit admins would never do.  ;-)

One of the things I've noticed when browsing old threads is that threads get locked with no explanation message from a moderator. Sometimes it's obvious why a thread was locked (ex. RIP Rush Limbaugh), sometimes not so much. I think it would be nice if when a thread gets locked, the mod/admin who does the lock leaves a post in purple of why the thread was closed. Doesn't have to be a long explanation, just something simple so that when I find myself browsing old threads, I have context to what's going on.

Also, if there's only six users on the Watchlist and that's "higher than normal", then I'd say moderation is appropriately lax as is.

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 05, 2021, 11:45:04 AM
... I feel pretty strongly that regardless of how someone feels about someone else's politics, influence in society, etc., it is inappropriate to "celebrate" or "be happy about" someone dying of cancer. ... I thought it was unfortunate that it was closed the way it was with that single-word post as the final word.

I agree with this, and as I alluded to above, there's a decent chance nothing ever became of the thread (in either a good or bad way) and it would still be sitting there open ten years from now with just one or two replies. I totally would have taken that chance (which would have prevented all of this ensuing discussion), but at the same time, I get why the mods didn't.

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 11:16:09 PM
There is no way to have an opinion on the man that does not reflect his political preferences, since that is the only reason he's famous. I couldn't tell you one thing about the guy's personal life, but I damn sure know who he voted for President.

I've only ever listened to one broadcast of his.  My roommate at the time (18 or 19 years ago) liked Rush and had the radio on.  All I really remember is a comment he made about religion.  It caused me to think a bit, and I eventually decided I disagreed with what he said.  And that's the only opinion of him that I have:  one based on religion rather than politics.  Fortunately, religious discussion is highly encouraged on this forum, so I feel completely free to talk about it here.[/not]

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 05, 2021, 11:45:04 AM
It was clear as soon as it was posted that the Rush Limbaugh obit thread would be closed because of the subject. I did kind of regret that it was closed after the lone response was from NE2 saying simply "No." I feel pretty strongly that regardless of how someone feels about someone else's politics, influence in society, etc., it is inappropriate to "celebrate" or "be happy about" someone dying of cancer. That's different from "not mourning" someone's death–in other words, there's a difference between "I'm not sorry to see that person gone" and expressing glee about someone dying of cancer. The latter, I think, is highly inappropriate, but we saw a lot of that from certain quarters when Rush Limbaugh died and, frankly, I was rather surprised that NE2 didn't post something along those lines given other political comments he's made in the past. It was inevitable that, had that thread not been locked, it would have turned into that sort of thing, so the moderators were probably right to close it, but I thought it was unfortunate that it was closed the way it was with that single-word post as the final word.

I closed it when it was just the initial post, but the "No" stuck in there (must have been the same time). It's the perfect display of why we don't allow political posts.

Quote from: hbelkins on March 04, 2021, 09:48:46 PM
I see some folks here have the same questions/concerns I do sometimes; that being unexplained moderation decisions. DIfferent people perceive things differently.

You posted that thread to use it as another excuse to bitch about moderation on the forum...play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 05, 2021, 11:45:04 AM
It was clear as soon as it was posted that the Rush Limbaugh obit thread would be closed because of the subject. I did kind of regret that it was closed after the lone response was from NE2 saying simply "No." I feel pretty strongly that regardless of how someone feels about someone else's politics, influence in society, etc., it is inappropriate to "celebrate" or "be happy about" someone dying of cancer. That's different from "not mourning" someone's death–in other words, there's a difference between "I'm not sorry to see that person gone" and expressing glee about someone dying of cancer. The latter, I think, is highly inappropriate, but we saw a lot of that from certain quarters when Rush Limbaugh died and, frankly, I was rather surprised that NE2 didn't post something along those lines given other political comments he's made in the past. It was inevitable that, had that thread not been locked, it would have turned into that sort of thing, so the moderators were probably right to close it, but I thought it was unfortunate that it was closed the way it was with that single-word post as the final word.

And the discussion of muting certain users circles back to reasons like the above being why I did long ago. It's a useful feature.

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 11:16:09 PMOr, rather, he's a radio host, who only talked about politics, and very strongly advocated for a certain type of politics.

He talked about much more than politics. He talked about entertainment (movies and TV shows and music; he lamented the fact that after he got his cochlear implant, he was unable to hear new music and could only recognize tunes he'd heard before, and he always said he had the best bumper music in all of radio). About golf. About football. About technology (he was probably the most prominent Apple fanboy in the world and I'm really surprised he even offered an Android version of his app.)

To tie this into separate forums, there was even a Usenet newsgroup dedicated to him: alt.fan.rush-limbaugh. I discovered it at the same time I discovered misc.transport.road and rec.autos.sport.nascar.

If you Google "who is rush limbaugh" most of the results mention his political ideology in the first two sentences. If that's what someone is best known for, they're not a subject of discussion for this forum.

Quote from: GaryV on March 05, 2021, 10:53:06 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 04, 2021, 11:16:09 PM
I couldn't tell you one thing about the guy's personal life, but I damn sure know who he voted for President.

Isn't that political?   :poke:

Everything is political

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 05, 2021, 09:57:55 PM
If you Google "who is rush limbaugh" most of the results mention his political ideology in the first two sentences. If that's what someone is best known for, they're not a subject of discussion for this forum.

Agree. No politics. It should apply to everyone, regardless of political ideology.

Quote from: thspfc on March 15, 2021, 08:02:00 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 05, 2021, 09:57:55 PM
If you Google "who is rush limbaugh" most of the results mention his political ideology in the first two sentences. If that's what someone is best known for, they're not a subject of discussion for this forum.

Agree. No politics. It should apply to everyone, regardless of political ideology.

How communist.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?184584-What-are-your-TOP-3-BIGGEST-ONLINE-PET-PEEVES/page5&s=d185581c2dae592dd9975ae56f9dd623

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This forum looks old school. I wonder that if it will get updated. Seems like you can only quote one (like City-data i think) post at a time.

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 25, 2021, 11:05:16 PM
This forum looks old school. I wonder that if it will get updated.

If you want to update it for us, let us know.

Only being able to quote one post at a time is sometimes a blessing. It takes time to scroll through quote chains on a mobile device.

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 26, 2021, 12:54:19 AM

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 25, 2021, 11:05:16 PM
This forum looks old school. I wonder that if it will get updated.

If you want to update it for us, let us know.

Na. I'm just saying that forum layout looks like it's from the mid 2000s.

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 26, 2021, 01:09:42 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 26, 2021, 12:54:19 AM

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 25, 2021, 11:05:16 PM
This forum looks old school. I wonder that if it will get updated.

If you want to update it for us, let us know.

Na. I'm just saying that forum layout looks like it's from the mid 2000s.

It looks like a road sign, what more do you want?

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 26, 2021, 01:17:10 AM

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 26, 2021, 01:09:42 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 26, 2021, 12:54:19 AM

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 25, 2021, 11:05:16 PM
This forum looks old school. I wonder that if it will get updated.

If you want to update it for us, let us know.

Na. I'm just saying that forum layout looks like it's from the mid 2000s.

It looks like a road sign, what more do you want?

I think he's referring to the forum in the link, not this one...

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 26, 2021, 01:09:42 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 26, 2021, 12:54:19 AM

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 25, 2021, 11:05:16 PM
This forum looks old school. I wonder that if it will get updated.

If you want to update it for us, let us know.

Na. I'm just saying that forum layout looks like it's from the mid 2000s.

Why does it matter? If it works, why change it just for the sake of change? Too many things in the world get changed "just because."

Quote from: hbelkins on March 26, 2021, 01:34:15 PMToo many things in the world get changed "just because."

This is true, but also, sometimes an update is still just nice to look at.

Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 26, 2021, 05:01:47 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on March 26, 2021, 01:34:15 PMToo many things in the world get changed "just because."

This is true, but also, sometimes an update is still just nice to look at.

That's how we got Clearview

Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on March 26, 2021, 10:28:39 PM

Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 26, 2021, 05:01:47 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on March 26, 2021, 01:34:15 PMToo many things in the world get changed "just because."

This is true, but also, sometimes an update is still just nice to look at.

That's how we got Clearview

Don't really like it on a computer though.

Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on March 26, 2021, 10:28:39 PM

Quote from: JoePCool14 on March 26, 2021, 05:01:47 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on March 26, 2021, 01:34:15 PMToo many things in the world get changed "just because."

This is true, but also, sometimes an update is still just nice to look at.

That's how we got Clearview

No, we got Clearview because some people with money pushed studies with questionable methodology.

I'm all for appearance updates that improve functionality. That was the supposed rationale behind Clearview -- older drivers had issues with halation at night with reflective signs. I orchestrated a redesign of a newspaper in the 1990s because the owner/publisher decided it was time for a change. We changed practically everything except the font of the flag/banner and the font/size/leading of the body copy. We changed byline styles, headline fonts, cutline/caption fonts and layouts -- the works. The finished product looked good, but it took quite a bit of work and I'm not convinced it was an improvement, nor that it improved readability. The publisher's eyesight was failing due to diabetes, though, so he may have been looking for something that was easier for him to read.

But changing something just because it looks dated but is still functional -- that's illogical to me. Why rip up a bathroom and change the colors of the fixtures and the tiles simply because it was built in the 70s and still has the colors that were popular then? If the sink and commode work, they don't need to be replaced.

And, besides, highway signs are not bathroom linoleum.

I have always loved the design of this forum. Visually, it is certainly a treat for roadgeeks, from the button copy logo to the black asphalt textures, to having physical components of signs to the traffic signals beside each board, and much more. It doesn't seem dated at all to me, but rather timeless, and a perfect layout for roadgeekery.

But theoretically if it did look "old-school" or dated, there's nothing wrong with that. As they say, don't fix what ain't broke. I echo the dislike for when products undergo constant and unnecessary changes that sometimes have a negative rather than positive effect. It's better to have more infrequent updates than to have frequent updates that constantly screw up stuff.

Then again,

Quote from: webny99 on March 26, 2021, 07:45:47 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 26, 2021, 01:17:10 AM

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 26, 2021, 01:09:42 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 26, 2021, 12:54:19 AM

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 25, 2021, 11:05:16 PM
This forum looks old school. I wonder that if it will get updated.

If you want to update it for us, let us know.

Na. I'm just saying that forum layout looks like it's from the mid 2000s.

It looks like a road sign, what more do you want?

I think he's referring to the forum in the link, not this one...

If he's actually referring to another forum, then this discussion was partly moot, but the point still stands.  :biggrin:

https://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php

I have an account on this forum and it looks very basic. Although it looks pretty nice

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 31, 2021, 11:19:16 PM
https://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php

I have an account on this forum and it looks very basic. Although it looks pretty nice

Change your theme to "SMF Default Theme - Curve" and you will get a very similar look on this forum.

Quote from: ozarkman417 on March 31, 2021, 11:32:42 PM

Quote from: tolbs17 on March 31, 2021, 11:19:16 PM
https://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php

I have an account on this forum and it looks very basic. Although it looks pretty nice

Change your theme to "SMF Default Theme - Curve" and you will get a very similar look on this forum.

It's neat, however, it's not so night mode friendly.

Also, I notice that City-Data is stricter with the personal attacks. Check out PJSaturn. She gets irritated and has to edit the posts constantly.