Favorite decades

[kphoger]

1990s:  ... Last real innovations in modern music

I was trying to figure out how to word that.  Thanks!

[Duke87]

I miss the America of my childhood.

I think a lot of people do right now. It's hard not to, in 2020.

I think this is a thing in any year, since it's a consequence of basic psychology.

Everyone naturally adapts to the world as it exists in their formative years, which are primarily the childhood and teenage years but to some extent also includes a person's early 20s. After that, people become generally set in their ways, but the modern world changes fast enough that it will change a lot over the remainder of a person's life. The inevitable result is that as people progress through adulthood, they feel increasingly out of place in the world around them. So everyone misses what things were like when they were young, not because things were better, but because things were more familiar and more within their comfort zones.

Basically, evolution didn't prepare us to live in a rapidly changing world. And indeed, for most of human history, we really didn't. But ever since the industrial revolution got going, we have, and there's no stopping it now. Maybe eventually we'll adapt to it. Or maybe eventually we'll reach a point where the advancement of science and technology reaches saturation and the rate of change will naturally slow down.

[Scott5114]

If it is true that one's formative adult years are their twenties, then the 1990s stunted the intellectual growth of a LOT of GenX folks. Not to get too political, but how else does one explain GenXers like Ted Cruz, Cory Booker, Beto O'Rourke, Marco Rubio, Scott Walker, and Kamala Harris (at least her presidential run) ALL falling flat on their faces when running for President in 2016 and 2020?

I think this has more to do with the fact that Gen X has the misfortune of being the generation directly after the Baby Boomer generation, who, due mostly to the 2009 financial crisis, has been unable or unwilling to just retire already. You saw the same thing at the job I worked at before–Gen Xers and millennials wanting to move up to more attractive positions but unable to do so because they were already occupied by people in their 70s who wouldn't retire because they couldn't afford it, or they liked having the insurance. The current Presidential election features the oldest president in US history running against the person who would be the oldest president ever elected, and his main primary opponent was just as old. The Gen Xers can't step up if the Baby Boomers aren't willing to hand over the keys.

Cruz, Booker, O'Rourke, Rubio, Walker, and Harris all had fatal flaws in their candidacies, and negative circumstances beyond their control (a lot of them were a victim of a candidate that had a similar message but got known for it first or executed it better), that had more to do with them losing than being Gen X, but a discussion of that is beyond the forum's remit.

[hbelkins]

three very brutal winters in a row (1977, '78, and '79)

You must have lived somewhere else than Kentucky at that point?

Nope. Lived right where I am living now. 1979 would have been a worse-than-average winter in its own right, but the two winters before were extremely atypical for Kentucky. Lots of snow and bitter cold. Those first two winters, we got out of school for Christmas break in December and went back to school the first week of March. In 1979, my senior year of high school, we got a few days in here and there during January and February before the next big snowfall came.

[bandit957]

I was in kindergarten in the late '70s when Kentucky had some really bad winters. But I also remember some terrible winters in the '90s when I was in college. I remember a horrible, horrible winter in 1993-94. NKU actually called off school for a week in early 1994 and said it was the first time they ever canceled.

The winter of 1992-93 was bad, but that was further south too. I remember some college pals were talking about how they were going to Florida for spring break, but Florida had huge blizzards when they were there - in March, no less! Ruined their vacation utterly!

[mgk920]

Even though it was a really crappy time for me on a personal level and what I learned of what was going on in the world was via radio, TV or the racks of out of town magazines and newspapers at the local pvblic and university libraries (ie, *no* internet), give me back the 1980s!

Mike

[thspfc]

three very brutal winters in a row (1977, '78, and '79)

You must have lived somewhere else than Kentucky at that point?

Nope. Lived right where I am living now. 1979 would have been a worse-than-average winter in its own right, but the two winters before were extremely atypical for Kentucky. Lots of snow and bitter cold. Those first two winters, we got out of school for Christmas break in December and went back to school the first week of March. In 1979, my senior year of high school, we got a few days in here and there during January and February before the next big snowfall came.

Was it really that much worse so as to make you judge the year as a whole on the winter? I suppose you might think of winter differently in Kentucky than we do further north (here, winter is just something that happens, some years it's worse than others, but it is what it is).

[webny99]

three very brutal winters in a row (1977, '78, and '79)

You must have lived somewhere else than Kentucky at that point?

Nope. Lived right where I am living now. 1979 would have been a worse-than-average winter in its own right, but the two winters before were extremely atypical for Kentucky. Lots of snow and bitter cold. Those first two winters, we got out of school for Christmas break in December and went back to school the first week of March. In 1979, my senior year of high school, we got a few days in here and there during January and February before the next big snowfall came.

Was it really that much worse so as to make you judge the year as a whole on the winter? I suppose you might think of winter differently in Kentucky than we do further north (here, winter is just something that happens, some years it's worse than others, but it is what it is).

That's kind of what I was thinking as well. A winter would have to be pretty crazy for me to remember the year by it, and even then, it would probably be more like a specific storm than the whole winter.

[webny99]

Interestingly, it seems like there's a pretty wide consensus that 2010's > 2000's. Does anyone disagree?

[kphoger]

Interestingly, it seems like there's a pretty wide consensus that 2010's > 2000's. Does anyone disagree?

Yep.

I've been alive for four decades, and I look back at them with progressively less fondness.  That is to say, each decade has been worse than the one before it.

[Revive 755]

But if we are going to get heavily into favorite decades, I think one can make the case that the upcoming 2020s would be an excellent decade in spite of the awful start. Remember that in 2026, the US has both its 250th birthday and is hosting the FIFA World Cup at the same time. Also, the summer Olympics are coming back to Los Angeles in 2028.

Depends how much fallout there is from 2020.  If things turn around in 2021, maybe.  If 2021 continues like 2020, or manages to go even worse . . .

Certainly would be interesting to revisit this in December 2029 and see.

[kphoger]

But if we are going to get heavily into favorite decades, I think one can make the case that the upcoming 2020s would be an excellent decade in spite of the awful start. Remember that in 2026, the US has both its 250th birthday and is hosting the FIFA World Cup at the same time. Also, the summer Olympics are coming back to Los Angeles in 2028.

Depends how much fallout there is from 2020.  If things turn around in 2021, maybe.  If 2021 continues like 2020, or manages to go even worse . . .

Certainly would be interesting to revisit this in December 2029 and see.

I have a feeling things will have all shaken out much earlier than 2029.
Would be interesting to revisit this in 2025, say.

[thspfc]

But if we are going to get heavily into favorite decades, I think one can make the case that the upcoming 2020s would be an excellent decade in spite of the awful start. Remember that in 2026, the US has both its 250th birthday and is hosting the FIFA World Cup at the same time. Also, the summer Olympics are coming back to Los Angeles in 2028.

Depends how much fallout there is from 2020.  If things turn around in 2021, maybe.  If 2021 continues like 2020, or manages to go even worse . . .

Certainly would be interesting to revisit this in December 2029 and see.

I have a feeling things will have all shaken out much earlier than 2029.
Would be interesting to revisit this in 2025, say.

The US will return to normal, rest assured. By no means am I an expert, but I believe COVID will almost certainly be done within the next calendar year.

[hotdogPi]

But if we are going to get heavily into favorite decades, I think one can make the case that the upcoming 2020s would be an excellent decade in spite of the awful start. Remember that in 2026, the US has both its 250th birthday and is hosting the FIFA World Cup at the same time. Also, the summer Olympics are coming back to Los Angeles in 2028.

Depends how much fallout there is from 2020.  If things turn around in 2021, maybe.  If 2021 continues like 2020, or manages to go even worse . . .

Certainly would be interesting to revisit this in December 2029 and see.

I have a feeling things will have all shaken out much earlier than 2029.
Would be interesting to revisit this in 2025, say.

The US will return to normal, rest assured. By no means am I an expert, but I believe COVID will almost certainly be done within the next calendar year.

Even if it does, it might still define the decade. Many things in the 1960s in the US happened in two consecutive years: 1968 and 1969. The early (wartime) 1860s and 1940s are more important than the late (peacetime) 1860s and 1940s.

[thspfc]

But if we are going to get heavily into favorite decades, I think one can make the case that the upcoming 2020s would be an excellent decade in spite of the awful start. Remember that in 2026, the US has both its 250th birthday and is hosting the FIFA World Cup at the same time. Also, the summer Olympics are coming back to Los Angeles in 2028.

Depends how much fallout there is from 2020.  If things turn around in 2021, maybe.  If 2021 continues like 2020, or manages to go even worse . . .

Certainly would be interesting to revisit this in December 2029 and see.

I have a feeling things will have all shaken out much earlier than 2029.
Would be interesting to revisit this in 2025, say.

The US will return to normal, rest assured. By no means am I an expert, but I believe COVID will almost certainly be done within the next calendar year.

Even if it does, it might still define the decade. Many things in the 1960s in the US happened in two consecutive years: 1968 and 1969. The early (wartime) 1860s and 1940s are more important than the late (peacetime) 1860s and 1940s.

Unless the mortality rate of COVID magically jumps 5-10 percent, I don't see it being veiwed anywhere close to the Civil War and WWII. That's not to downplay the devastating effects of COVID, but it's just not the same thing at all. I think COVID is more comparable to 9/11 in terms of the panic it has caused throughout the nation, even though 9/11 was much less deadly.

[webny99]

The US will return to normal, rest assured. By no means am I an expert, but I believe COVID will almost certainly be done within the next calendar year.

Even if it does, it might still define the decade.

I agree. I'd even say it's likely to define the decade.

There's already been some shifts that are likely here to stay:
-More mask-wearing in public
-More staying home when you're sick
-More working from home

Unless the mortality rate of COVID magically jumps 5-10 percent, I don't see it being veiwed anywhere close to the Civil War and WWII. That's not to downplay the devastating effects of COVID, but it's just not the same thing at all. I think COVID is more comparable to 9/11 in terms of the panic it has caused throughout the nation, even though 9/11 was much less deadly.

I dunno about that. I think this pandemic certainly has had a way bigger effect on our day-to-day lives than 9/11. Comparing it to the wars is a bit trickier. The long-term effects will be very different than those of a war, but they could still be just as numerous and important, if not more so.

Let's put it this way: no one can escape the pandemic. It's penetrating, on a global level, in a way that conflicts, natural disasters, etc. just... aren't.

[kevinb1994]

The US will return to normal, rest assured. By no means am I an expert, but I believe COVID will almost certainly be done within the next calendar year.

Even if it does, it might still define the decade.

I agree. I'd even say it's likely to define the decade.

There's already been some shifts that are likely here to stay:
-More mask-wearing in public
-More staying home when you're sick
-More working from home

Unless the mortality rate of COVID magically jumps 5-10 percent, I don't see it being veiwed anywhere close to the Civil War and WWII. That's not to downplay the devastating effects of COVID, but it's just not the same thing at all. I think COVID is more comparable to 9/11 in terms of the panic it has caused throughout the nation, even though 9/11 was much less deadly.

I dunno about that. I think this pandemic certainly has had a way bigger effect on our day-to-day lives than 9/11. Comparing it to the wars is a bit trickier. The long-term effects will be very different than those of a war, but they could still be just as numerous and important, if not more so.

Let's put it this way: no one can escape the pandemic. It's penetrating, on a global level, in a way that conflicts, natural disasters, etc. just... aren't.

You'd have to wait at least 25 years to be able to look back properly.

[kphoger]

I'd even say it's likely to define the decade.

We'll have no idea what defines the decade until the decade is over.  There might be something that happens in 2027 that totally steals the show, and that will be what everyone remembers about the 2020s.

There's already been some shifts that are likely here to stay:
-More mask-wearing in public
-More staying home when you're sick
-More working from home

Probably the last of those three will persist the longest.

I have a feeling the "stay home if you have any symptoms" thing will fade more quickly, as employees start running out of PTO and employers start getting tired of finding people to cover shifts due to runny noses and coughs.

As for masks, remember that a large part of the country is still vocally opposed to them.  Maybe that will stick around in some areas, but I highly suspect mask use will drop off precipitously once they're no longer government-recommended.

I think this pandemic certainly has had a way bigger effect on our day-to-day lives than 9/11. Comparing it to the wars is a bit trickier. The long-term effects will be very different than those of a war, but they could still be just as numerous and important, if not more so.

Let's put it this way: no one can escape the pandemic. It's penetrating, on a global level, in a way that conflicts, natural disasters, etc. just... aren't.

Do you remember 9/11?  You were a baby at the time, right?  The event didn't have a huge long-lasting effect on our day-to-day physical activities, but it certainly changed the way we view international politics, Muslims, air travel, war, etc.  Most of those shifts can't be seen with the eye, but they happened nonetheless.  I think that, after this outbreak dies down, the changes that we've undergone will end up being less long-lasting and less fundamental than those effected by 9/11.

In my estimation, 2001-2002 was a huge paradigm shift for America.  The 1990s were a different America than the 2000s.

[bandit957]

I always thought the late '90s were different from the early '90s, because of the influence of the Internet (which was often negative). I wasn't born yet in the 1960s, but I also think of the early '60s as being different from the late '60s, maybe because the late '60s were much more hippie-like.

[kphoger]

I always thought the late '90s were different from the early '90s, because of the influence of the Internet (which was often negative). I wasn't born yet in the 1960s, but I also think of the early '60s as being different from the late '60s, maybe because the late '60s were much more hippie-like.

The internet was still kind of "new" feeling in the late 1990s.  It hadn't become ingrained yet, the way it is now.

[SEWIGuy]

I got my first email address in 1994.  So yeah...

[kphoger]

Heck, I enrolled in college in 1999, and the only internet access was in the computer lab.  I'm pretty sure my parents were still using dial-up and counting how many hours they used each day–although that might have recently changed before 1999.

[webny99]

I'd even say it's likely to define the decade.

We'll have no idea what defines the decade until the decade is over.  There might be something that happens in 2027 that totally steals the show, and that will be what everyone remembers about the 2020s.

Yeah, I wouldn't rule out that possibility. I guess when I say "likely", I mean based on what we know now, it seems like there's a greater than 50% chance that this will define the decade. Obviously, that's still far from a 100% guarantee, as anything can, and probably will, happen before 2030.

As for masks, remember that a large part of the country is still vocally opposed to them.  Maybe that will stick around in some areas, but I highly suspect mask use will drop off precipitously once they're no longer government-recommended.

Yes, I fully expect mask wearing to drop off once there's a vaccine, but it's "here to stay" in the sense that mask wearing will never, at any point in the future, seem as crazy as it did prior to March 2020.

Do you remember 9/11?  You were a baby at the time, right?  The event didn't have a huge long-lasting effect on our day-to-day physical activities, but it certainly changed the way we view international politics, Muslims, air travel, war, etc.  Most of those shifts can't be seen with the eye, but they happened nonetheless.

I don't remember 9/11. My earliest memories date back to the '02-'03 time period.

I guess I tend to place more weight on shifts that actually affect your day to day life, because that's what you're going to remember.
Everyone that was old enough remembers the moment of 9/11. It was a huge, unprecedented game changer that caught America by surprise. But, what was actually different in the average person's life in September 2002 than September 2001? Probably not a whole lot, unless you're someone that does a lot of air travel. Sure, attitudes were shifting, but the economy hummed along, work and school hummed along, and actual life didn't change that much.

On the other hand, what's the difference in the average person's life in March-April 2019, vs March-April 2020? Or even September 2019 vs September 2020? There are a lot more tangible differences to point to. Little kids, for example, are going remember this pandemic in a way that they wouldn't remember 9/11.

It's just different because you don't have that "moment" to point to, where everyone remembers exactly where they were and what they were doing. For me, with regards to the pandemic, there's a few moments I can point to... the night sports were cancelled... the day church services switched to online... the panic when grocery store shelves were bare... and a few other more personal ones that I won't get into... none of which compare to the shock of 9/11, but collectively add up to something much more profound, IMO.

I think that, after this outbreak dies down, the changes that we've undergone will end up being less long-lasting and less fundamental than those effected by 9/11.

I was going to say we can agree to disagree, but perhaps we can agree that it's simply too early to know for sure.

[kphoger]

Everyone that was old enough remembers the moment of 9/11. It was a huge, unprecedented game changer that caught America by surprise. But, what was actually different in the average person's life in September 2002 than September 2001? Probably not a whole lot, unless you're someone that does a lot of air travel.

Ask any American of Middle Eastern heritage, and I bet you'll get a different answer.

[SEWIGuy]

I remember when people were describing email to me back in about 1993, and it astounded me.