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Author Topic: LGBT+ Roadgeeks  (Read 8552 times)

kphoger

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Re: Re: Re: LGBT+ Roadgeeks
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2020, 03:34:00 PM »

LGBTQ identity is more than about one's "love / sex life"

OK.  I don't care about people's 'identity' on here—whether straight or gay—either.  That's not why I'm on the forum.

I see LGBTQ as two separate categories mixed together that probably shouldn't be.

I've been thinking that for a while now.
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Re: Re: Re: LGBT+ Roadgeeks
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2020, 03:37:51 PM »



Not every single person in the roadgeek community is an LGBT ally, but most are.

Well, I should hope that one doesn't need to be an 'ally' in order to be civil, friendly, and even welcoming to members.

You make a good point.  Perhaps what I should have said was, "Most folks within the roadgeek community are friendly and welcoming to LGBT folks."  I consider many of the roadgeek friends I've made over the years to be "allies".

Frankly, I don't care about members' love/sex lives—whether straight or gay.  That's not why I'm on this forum.


LGBTQ identity is more than about one's "love / sex life"

I see LGBTQ as two separate categories mixed together that probably shouldn't be.

The first is being gay, lesbian, or bisexual. Your own gender is normal, but you are attracted to a different set of people than you normally would be.

Transgender, genderfluid, no gender at all, etc. is the second category. Here, it's your own gender that's unusual. This group is much rarer than the first group.

Don't LGB and TQ people suffer the same struggles, and often get conflated together? People think trans women are just gay men. So I guess in their minds I'm straight.

Also, there's a third category: intersex (I) people. Intersex people can be of any gender, but it's the sexual characteristics (chromosomes, parts, etc.) that are unusual.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 03:42:57 PM by Hwy 61 Revisited »
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Re: Re: Re: LGBT+ Roadgeeks
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2020, 03:50:35 PM »

LGBTQ identity is more than about one's "love / sex life"

OK.  I don't care about people's 'identity' on here—whether straight or gay—either.  That's not why I'm on the forum.

People's identities matter a great deal to them, though. And to people who share that identity, trying to find others like themselves.
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kphoger

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Re: Re: Re: LGBT+ Roadgeeks
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2020, 03:51:09 PM »

Don't LGB and TQ people suffer the same struggles...

But that shouldn't make them the same category.  (Goodness, doesn't the term category sound cold when referring to people?)

, and often get conflated together?

But whose fault is that?  Or, in other words, which came first?

I'd say the large majority of people had never even heard of the term 'transgender' or thought about the people the term represents before the T was added to the end of LGB.  If that T hadn't been appended to LGB, then perhaps people wouldn't be so prone to conflate the terms.

People think trans women are just gay men. So I guess in their minds I'm straight.

People think trans women are just gay men only if they are involved with men.  But it would be silly to think of a trans woman who's involved with a woman as 'gay'.

As an example:  My wife's uncle underwent a sex change to become a woman, then became involved with a woman who had undergone a sex change to become a man—who, crazily enough, had changed her first name to the same name as my wife's uncle had left behind.  In my mind at least, the transsexual thing is a separate deal from the gay/straight thing.

One big hang-up, I think, is that gender can be a very visible thing, whereas sexuality isn't necessarily so visible.
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kphoger

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Re: Re: Re: LGBT+ Roadgeeks
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2020, 03:52:42 PM »



LGBTQ identity is more than about one's "love / sex life"

OK.  I don't care about people's 'identity' on here—whether straight or gay—either.  That's not why I'm on the forum.

People's identities matter a great deal to them, though. And to people who share that identity, trying to find others like themselves.

Totally.  I guess this was my obtuse way of saying a person's 'identity' isn't going to make me any more or less likely to enjoy their discussion of road-related things on an internet forum.  And, really, I think it's strange that it would for anybody.
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Re: Re: Re: LGBT+ Roadgeeks
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2020, 04:03:24 PM »



LGBTQ identity is more than about one's "love / sex life"

OK.  I don't care about people's 'identity' on here—whether straight or gay—either.  That's not why I'm on the forum.

People's identities matter a great deal to them, though. And to people who share that identity, trying to find others like themselves.

Totally.  I guess this was my obtuse way of saying a person's 'identity' isn't going to make me any more or less likely to enjoy their discussion of road-related things on an internet forum.  And, really, I think it's strange that it would for anybody.

There's a camaraderie among LGBT+ people that straight and cis people don't really understand. It's probably part bonding over the shared struggle, and part feeling more comfortable being around people like yourself, that you don't have to walk on eggshells and risk being judged or misinterpreted (which can accidentally happen by even the most well-meaning straight person).

LGBT+ people often have social circles that are primarily fellow LGBT+ people for that reason.
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Re: Re: Re: LGBT+ Roadgeeks
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2020, 04:08:33 PM »

That's the natural course of human interaction.  We bond with people we share something in common with, especially if that something is a Pretty Big ThingTM.
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Re: Re: Re: LGBT+ Roadgeeks
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2020, 04:12:41 PM »

Don't LGB and TQ people suffer the same struggles...

But that shouldn't make them the same category.  (Goodness, doesn't the term category sound cold when referring to people?)

There are support systems (programs, groups, communities, etc.) that LGB individuals use that would also be of use to T individuals, which is why they are part of the same "category". Obviously, transgender folks have lots of additional needs that cis folks don't. But the social support is still helpful.

Also, my understanding is that the term "transsexual", while once common (cf Rocky Horror), is now considered gauche. "Transgender" is preferable, and more accurate anyway, since someone can change their gender presentation without necessarily wanting to alter their physical sex.
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Re: Re: Re: LGBT+ Roadgeeks
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2020, 04:45:13 PM »

Part of the terminology issue is that "sex" and "gender" are actually not synonyms when used in this context; "sex" tends to designate the physiological parts of the equation while "gender" addresses the mental and societal parts. Not being transgender myself, I'm not going to make a fool of myself talking over people who know better, but if you wish to know more, that's probably a good place to start.
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kphoger

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Re: Re: Re: LGBT+ Roadgeeks
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2020, 04:53:17 PM »

Part of the terminology issue is that "sex" and "gender" are actually not synonyms when used in this context; "sex" tends to designate the physiological parts of the equation while "gender" addresses the mental and societal parts.

I know.  Precisely.  My wife's uncle had surgery to change from male to female.  Thus I view the act as a "sex" change, thus the term "transsexual".
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Re: Re: Re: LGBT+ Roadgeeks
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2020, 05:29:23 PM »

It may shock you to learn that I'm not too concerned about keeping up with what terms are in and which are out during a given year.[/sarcasm]  If I meant anyone offense by using the term, then I apologize, but please understand it wasn't intended.  In common conversation, I use the term 'sex' instead of 'gender' when referring to male vs female.  Thus, when I speak of a male undergoing a sex change to become a female, I naturally think of that as 'transsexual'.  Sex→transsexual is a more logical connection in my mind than Sex→transgender.


Not all trans people want gender confirmation surgery, hence why transgender is more common than transsexual. Transsexual also creates a heirarchical system for trans people--as if you aren't really trans because you don't want the other parts.


Male and female are not mutually exclusive. People can be somewhere in between (nonbinary/genderqueer), both (bigender), neither (agender), or something else entirely (third gender). They can also switch between genders (genderfluid).


My wife's aunt underwent a sex change to become a woman, then became involved with a trans man—who, crazily enough, had changed his first name to the same name as my wife's aunt had left behind.

When you refer to a trans person, you refer to them by the gender and pronouns they identify as. Lana and Lilly Wachowski are women who use she/her pronouns, and they should be referred to by those names unless it is necessary to mention their deadnames (such as their date of birth and what they were called then).

Oh BTW, is your aunt Lana Wachowski? She's dating a trans man.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 05:33:13 PM by Hwy 61 Revisited »
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Re: Re: Re: LGBT+ Roadgeeks
« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2020, 06:06:00 PM »

I'd say the large majority of people had never even heard of the term 'transgender' or thought about the people the term represents before the T was added to the end of LGB.  If that T hadn't been appended to LGB, then perhaps people wouldn't be so prone to conflate the terms.

Someone mentioned "Rocky Horror" (which, BTW, I've never seen, and have no plans to.) What's the song in that movie? A transvestite transsexual from Transylvania? I know they were going for alliteration there.

More than just the T has been added to LGB. And even then there are questions as to what the T and the other letters stand for. Is T "transvestite," "transgender," "transsexual," or something else? I've heard it applied to "transitioning" as well. And then there's "QIA+" The Q is said to stand for "queer," which used to be a derogatory term just slightly less offensive than the three-letter f-word. But is it now acceptable, just as the n-word that ends with "a" is OK but the one that ends with "er" isn't? Or does Q stand for "questioning?" And the I and the A? Does A stand for "allies" or "asexual?" And the I? "Interested," "intersexual," or perhaps even "incel?" (Possible definition here, which cautions against saying that "Q" stands for "queer.")

I've always been one that questioned the lumping of all these different demographics, particularly the LGB and the T groups, together in one whole group. It would be like grouping all Hispanics together, when they have very different priorities and beliefs (thinking specifically about Mexican nationals and Cuban nationals.) There may be some shared pigmentation tendencies and a shared language, but there's otherwise very little in common between Mexican Hispanics and Cuban Hispanics other than both Mexico and Cuba are south of the United States.

Ditto for those who lump supporters of medicinal marijuana, recreational marijuana, and industrial hemp into one group. The goals of each of those three groups are different, yet they often are included together to the point where it appears that those supporting industrial hemp or medicinal marijuana (which many support) are being joined by those who support recreational use so they can use those unrelated issues as a Trojan horse to get the door open for eventual full legalization.

But to comment directly on some of the things brought up in posts such as this one:
I guess this was my obtuse way of saying a person's 'identity' isn't going to make me any more or less likely to enjoy their discussion of road-related things on an internet forum.  And, really, I think it's strange that it would for anybody.

And the original post in the thread:

Hi. Trans gay female just wondering if there are any other LGBT roadgeeks on this thread. I only knew of three myself that are open about it--me, vtk (nb), and DJParticle (cis lesbian).

This is intended to be a support/alliance group. We do not welcome homophobes, transphobes, or other anti-LGBT people here.

I'm more likely to look upon you adversely and judgmentally if you like and support roundabouts as opposed to this other stuff!  :bigass: Or if you are bigoted against Clearview for irrational reasons!  :-D :-D Or if you prefer those OAPL (or APL, if you prefer) monstrosities over older diagrammatic or pull-through overheads.  :) :)

(And to address the naming of names, there are a number of others I know of besides the names that were apparently mentioned, deleted, and then re-added; some of whom are on the forum and others who aren't but are active in other roadgeek channels or were on MTR back in the day. But it's up to each individual to disclose how much or how little of their personal details they want to make known. I don't believe in involuntary outing. Some participants are hesitant to even make their real names known on this forum, to the point where some people get upset if you use someone's real name to refer to them instead of their forum user name.)
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Re: LGBT+ Roadgeeks
« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2020, 08:18:39 PM »

This is a topic that I personally appreciate.  I'm a cis gay man... came out to myself in 1997 and gradually came out to friends and family over the years since then.  I joined the roadgeek community in 2003 and was pretty much "out" from the get-go when I joined this overwhelmingly supportive community.  Not every single person in the roadgeek community is an LGBT ally, but most are.

There are a lot of LGBT folks within the roadgeek community... some who are active on the AARoads forum; some who are not.  Some who attend road meets; some who don't.  My partner/husband has attended a few road meets with me over the years (at least the meal portion of a few meets), but for the most part he's not interested in what we do... but he supports my interest and my desire to attend road meets on my own.

I'm glad you posted this topic!!  It's always nice to see more LGBT folks within our community.  :D

Nice to hear sentiments like this.  I recently joined this forum and have enjoyed reading stuff about roads even though I haven't really posted anything yet.  However, as a gay male, it's nice to know that this group is mostly open-minded!

--josh
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Re: Re: Re: LGBT+ Roadgeeks
« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2020, 11:19:46 PM »

I'm more likely to look upon you adversely and judgmentally if you like and support roundabouts as opposed to this other stuff!  :bigass: 


Thanks for the support.


please don't shame roundabouts
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Re: LGBT+ Roadgeeks
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2020, 11:33:05 PM »

Wanted to mention that even at roadmeets you'll find LGBT folks.  Every roadmeet I've been to has had some contingency of LGBT individuals--not all of whom are "out" to everyone, so it's important not to divulge who they are here.
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Re: LGBT+ Roadgeeks
« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2020, 11:59:59 PM »

Wanted to mention that even at roadmeets you'll find LGBT folks.  Every roadmeet I've been to has had some contingency of LGBT individuals--not all of whom are "out" to everyone, so it's important not to divulge who they are here.

I don't think I have ever been to a meet WITHOUT an LGBT individual. There are far more "active" LGBT+ roadgeeks than most people know. I...has there ever been a meet with more than 5 people that didn't have at least one LGBT+ person? Most of decent size have at least 2, I have seen as many as 5 that I knew were at a single meet.
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Re: LGBT+ Roadgeeks
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2020, 12:04:11 PM »

I've gone back and forth on this for a little bit. Obviously I'm only 17, so any of this could change. I'm a cis male, and I thought I might be gay for a little while, but then ended up with a girlfriend and I'm happy about that. I think I might be bi, but I'm not quite sure. Ultimately, my attitude at present is "it is what it is" and there's no need to sort myself nicely into any box, and who knows. Maybe one day I will, maybe I won't, but at least at this point I don't really feel any pressure, either from myself or anyone else, to do that.

That seems like a very healthy approach to life.  I wish I'd had that level of self-awareness when I was 17.   
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Re: LGBT+ Roadgeeks
« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2020, 01:32:48 PM »

I've gone back and forth on this for a little bit. Obviously I'm only 17, so any of this could change. I'm a cis male, and I thought I might be gay for a little while, but then ended up with a girlfriend and I'm happy about that. I think I might be bi, but I'm not quite sure. Ultimately, my attitude at present is "it is what it is" and there's no need to sort myself nicely into any box, and who knows. Maybe one day I will, maybe I won't, but at least at this point I don't really feel any pressure, either from myself or anyone else, to do that.

That seems like a very healthy approach to life.  I wish I'd had that level of self-awareness when I was 17.


I have this level of self-awareness at seventeen, but I was repressed for the longest time. I literally didn't figure out I was trans until, like, 2 1/2 months ago.
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Re: LGBT+ Roadgeeks
« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2020, 07:30:15 PM »

I'm pretty late but I'd like to mention I'm bisexual and agender (edit 2022: trans girl) :)

Nice to see some other LGBT roadgeeks here!
« Last Edit: May 30, 2022, 06:11:07 PM by logan230 »
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Re: Re: Re: LGBT+ Roadgeeks
« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2020, 08:28:32 PM »

How would you know, unless the person announces it in some way?  I've only been to one meet, and I neither know that nor even thought to wonder.
Let's just say that there are people in this hobby who know each other beyond meets and this forum.
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Re: LGBT+ Roadgeeks
« Reply #45 on: September 13, 2020, 09:03:37 PM »

Hi. Trans gay female just wondering if there are any other LGBT roadgeeks on this thread. I only knew of three myself that are open about it--me, vtk (nb), and DJParticle (cis lesbian).

Bisexual cismale here.
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Re: LGBT+ Roadgeeks
« Reply #46 on: September 13, 2020, 09:39:45 PM »

I was originally just replying that one doesn't need to be an 'ally'—or even care about it—to welcome people here.

I strongly hold the opinion that if you're not an ally, you have no place in society, whatsoever.


Just because somebody is different than you, or has a different like from you, doesn't deem you a freak. Somehow my parents haven't gotten that memo yet.

Wow, also, ouch.  I feel for you!  Hopefully some day they'll be the cool parents. 

Meanwhile when I or my husband go to my parents, we better be in a fish mood since they know of our fursonas and we're definitely getting some lighthearted teasing about.  On the other hand, this usually means salmon dinner.  Getting taken to Sushi Train (which uses a G scale model railroad instead of a sushi conveyor) was just multiple layers.
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Re: LGBT+ Roadgeeks
« Reply #47 on: September 13, 2020, 09:57:25 PM »

I was originally just replying that one doesn't need to be an 'ally'—or even care about it—to welcome people here.

I strongly hold the opinion that if you're not an ally, you have no place in society, whatsoever.

I wouldn't go this extreme but I do agree that there's basically no reason not to be an ally.
Most homophobia/etc comes from ignorance. Those kind of people need to have an open mind and a new perspective. At the same time it's important to see where they come from as well, so that they can be educated and can come to at the very least tolerate LGBT people.
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Re: LGBT+ Roadgeeks
« Reply #48 on: September 13, 2020, 11:51:55 PM »

I was originally just replying that one doesn't need to be an 'ally'—or even care about it—to welcome people here.

I strongly hold the opinion that if you're not an ally, you have no place in society, whatsoever.


Just because somebody is different than you, or has a different like from you, doesn't deem you a freak. Somehow my parents haven't gotten that memo yet.

Wow, also, ouch.  I feel for you!  Hopefully some day they'll be the cool parents. 

Meanwhile when I or my husband go to my parents, we better be in a fish mood since they know of our fursonas and we're definitely getting some lighthearted teasing about.  On the other hand, this usually means salmon dinner.  Getting taken to Sushi Train (which uses a G scale model railroad instead of a sushi conveyor) was just multiple layers.


I'm not out yet though.
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Re: LGBT+ Roadgeeks
« Reply #49 on: September 14, 2020, 06:59:11 AM »

On the other hand, this usually means salmon dinner.  Getting taken to Sushi Train (which uses a G scale model railroad instead of a sushi conveyor) was just multiple layers.

Wait, is that like this place: http://fritzskc.com/ , except with sushi on a train instead of burgers and fries?
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