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Platepay is a ripoff

Started by bugo, August 25, 2021, 06:35:28 PM

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bugo

Platepay is the OTA's cashless tolling system for non-Pikepass holders. It uses cameras that take pictures of license plates and mails the toll bill to the owner of the car. The only Platepay-enabled exit in Oklahoma is in Jenks at the Creek Turnpike interchange at Peoria/Elm. Platepay is also a huge ripoff. Here's some proof.

If you have Pikepass, and you get onto the Creek Turnpike at Riverside, cross the river into Jenks and get off at the Peoria exit, it will cost you 35¢. If you don't have Pikepass, and you drive between the same two interchanges, it will set you back a whopping $1.70. This is for a 1.2 mile long stretch of the Creek Turnpike. It includes the Arkansas River bridge, so maybe I should think of it as a toll bridge.

If you get on the Creek at Yale and get off at Peoria, the Pikepass rate is 50¢, while the Platepay system will charge you the same $1.70 that you would be charged if you had gotten on at Riverside. No matter where you get onto the turnpike, if you get off at Peoria, it will charge you a $1.70 flat rate. If you get on at Memorial/US 169/US 64 and get off at Peoria, it will bill your Pikepass at the rate of 75¢, while the Platepay rate is still $1.70. If you use the Creek/Peoria interchange regularly, GET A PIKEPASS! It will save you significant amounts of money. Since Platepay is about to go statewide, these Platepay ripoffs will be all over the state. So you should get a Pikepass if you drive in Oklahoma regularly at all. The Platepay system is rigged against the motorist who doesn't have Pikepass. OTA's revenues are about to go through the roof and a lot of motorists are going to be very angry when they start getting bills in the mail for tolls of $2 instead of the 50¢ that it cost to drive the same section of road when the cash tolls were still there. Rolling Platepay out statewide is nothing more than a cash grab, plain and simple.

This information came straight from pikepass.com.


sprjus4

I believe the reason for additional costs with toll by plate is due to fees associated with billing, processing, etc.

It has helped that Oklahoma has interoperability with Texas and Kansas tags, however they need to join up with the E-ZPass system sooner than later.

bugo

Quote from: sprjus4 on August 25, 2021, 06:37:56 PM
I believe the reason for additional costs with toll by plate is due to fees associated with billing, processing, etc.

It has helped that Oklahoma has interoperability with Texas and Kansas tags, however they need to join up with the E-ZPass system sooner than later.

They can't connect to EZ Pass until EZ Pass modernizes its hardware to use modern passive transponder technology like Pikepass uses. rather than the ancient active transponder technology that EZ Pass uses.

vdeane

Quote from: sprjus4 on August 25, 2021, 06:37:56 PM
I believe the reason for additional costs with toll by plate is due to fees associated with billing, processing, etc.

It has helped that Oklahoma has interoperability with Texas and Kansas tags, however they need to join up with the E-ZPass system sooner than later.
I wouldn't hold my breath over that.  There were reports of SunPass and E-ZPass becoming interoperable for ages now (at least half a decade if not a full decade, minimum) and it only JUST happened.  Since nobody has heard rumors of E-ZPass and Texas/Oklahoma/Kansas becoming interoperable, it will likely be even longer.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

sprjus4

#4
^ These articles briefly mentioned the future potential of such interoperability, including one that mentioned as early as 2022.

QuoteOklahoma's PikePasses work on turnpikes in Kansas and Texas under an agreement with those states, though several eastern states use the E-Z Pass system. Oklahoma officials say they're working to make the state's PikePass system operable with others in the future.
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2021/07/20/kilpatrick-turnpike-okc-goes-cashless-sunday/8013081002/

Quote Those drivers, however, must still stop at toll booths along all turnpikes west of the state and in the growing E-Z Pass hub that is the nation's largest with 43 million accounts spread out over 19 states. Florida last month was among the latest to enter into interoperability agreements with the E-Z Pass hub.

Machamer said a mix of legislative fixes and modernization needs with other states has delayed the central hub from connecting with the E-Z Pass hub and systems in California and elsewhere.

"We're working on an agreement with the western states," Machamer said. "They've had to do some legislation that allows them to share information about customers over state lines."

The E-Z Pass hub consists of more than 30 agencies that have to agree on direction and purchasing.

"They've got a bigger challenge," Machamer said. "They haven't modernized their system in 30 years."

But progress is being made, Machamer said, and the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority is hoping to implement systems to read E-Z Passes in early 2022.

"That's needed first," Machamer said. "We're working on getting a sponsor to process our transactions. As an agency you're either a full E-Z Pass member and you pay higher dues and get a seat at the table with all the other agencies, or we have someone sponsor us and pass on our dues and fees."

E-Z Pass is a priority, Damrill said, because with so many trucks on the system it will move them out of cash toll plazas in Oklahoma before it goes totally cashless.

The vision for a cashless, seamless system nationwide is still a ways off. The Oklahoma Turnpike Authority is intentionally going slow on getting rid of toll booths while trying to get interoperability done as soon as possible, especially with the Turner and Will Rogers turnpikes that are a part of the heavily traveled Interstate 44 corridor.

"You're concerned about revenue when you go cashless and with our big turnpikes there is a lot more to do," Damrill said. "We want to get E-Z Pass going here before we go with that, so that's another reason why we want to go with Turner and Will Rogers last."
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2021/06/21/pikepass-cashless-tolls-set-turnpikes-but-wont-work-nationwide-oklahoma/7518132002/

vdeane

Interesting.  Of course, the Florida reports had it being "imminent" years before it finally occurred, but let's hope that Florida was the domino that sets everything off.  And let's hope that if Oklahoma is working on it, that Kansas and Texas won't be far behind.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

US 89

Are all the Oklahoma turnpikes going to go AET with Pikepass/Platepay, or will there still be options for cash toll collection?

bugo

Quote from: US 89 on August 25, 2021, 11:23:53 PM
Are all the Oklahoma turnpikes going to go AET with Pikepass/Platepay, or will there still be options for cash toll collection?

I believe they are going to go 100% Platepay for all transactions made by non-Pikepass holders.

Bobby5280

I'm kind of looking forward to all Oklahoma toll roads going cash-less. Maybe that will be enough for them to fix these ratty old toll booths still operating in various locations of the turnpike system. I really hate the I-44 toll booth at the Walters exit between Lawton and Wichita Falls. OTA has had plans for many years to re-do that whole interchange. The bridge going over I-44 (and the existing toll booth) looks like hell. It's falling apart. I have no idea when they're going to completely re-build that interchange and toll plaza. But with an all cash-less system maybe OTA can at least rip out the old manned toll booths and clear the existing bridge structure enough so we don't have to slow down to freaking 25mph when passing through.

Quote from: vdeaneThere were reports of SunPass and E-ZPass becoming interoperable for ages now (at least half a decade if not a full decade, minimum) and it only JUST happened.  Since nobody has heard rumors of E-ZPass and Texas/Oklahoma/Kansas becoming interoperable, it will likely be even longer.

At least a few years ago there was federal legislation being kicked around that was going to require all toll roads in the United States to have interoperable toll tag systems. Congress might have even passed the bill. If the bill did indeed pass there was pretty much zero follow-thru on enforcement. It's either that or the legislation gave a very long deadline for toll road authorities to comply.

Great Lakes Roads

And the Kansas Turnpike Authority (KTA) is also in the process of switching its current ticket system to AET as well, so yeah, I can see both Kansas and Oklahoma accepting EZ-Pass within the next couple of years. Texas, on the other hand, will take a bit longer to do since there are multiple tolling agencies within that state.

vdeane

Quote from: Bobby5280 on August 26, 2021, 12:35:08 AM
At least a few years ago there was federal legislation being kicked around that was going to require all toll roads in the United States to have interoperable toll tag systems. Congress might have even passed the bill. If the bill did indeed pass there was pretty much zero follow-thru on enforcement. It's either that or the legislation gave a very long deadline for toll road authorities to comply.
The deadline was 2016, but the bill provided neither funding to meet that goal nor penalties for non-compliance.  It was purely aspirational.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

rte66man

Quote from: bugo on August 25, 2021, 11:46:20 PM
Quote from: US 89 on August 25, 2021, 11:23:53 PM
Are all the Oklahoma turnpikes going to go AET with Pikepass/Platepay, or will there still be options for cash toll collection?

I believe they are going to go 100% Platepay for all transactions made by non-Pikepass holders.

All are scheduled to be cashless by 2025.
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

FakeMikeMorgan

Anyone know why the Kickapoo Turnpike didn't open up as AET to begin with? Waste of money building toll plazas that will be removed in a few years.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: bugo on August 25, 2021, 08:36:27 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on August 25, 2021, 06:37:56 PM
I believe the reason for additional costs with toll by plate is due to fees associated with billing, processing, etc.

It has helped that Oklahoma has interoperability with Texas and Kansas tags, however they need to join up with the E-ZPass system sooner than later.

They can't connect to EZ Pass until EZ Pass modernizes its hardware to use modern passive transponder technology like Pikepass uses. rather than the ancient active transponder technology that EZ Pass uses.

EZ Pass is the much bigger system.  If OTA wants to go inter-operational, they're going to have to make the change, not EZ Pass.

Florida, which has a different system than EZ Pass's traditional system, managed to do it.  So the holdout is OTA, not EZ Pass.

hotdogPi

Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 13, 2021, 08:18:42 AM
Quote from: bugo on August 25, 2021, 08:36:27 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on August 25, 2021, 06:37:56 PM
I believe the reason for additional costs with toll by plate is due to fees associated with billing, processing, etc.

It has helped that Oklahoma has interoperability with Texas and Kansas tags, however they need to join up with the E-ZPass system sooner than later.

They can't connect to EZ Pass until EZ Pass modernizes its hardware to use modern passive transponder technology like Pikepass uses. rather than the ancient active transponder technology that EZ Pass uses.

EZ Pass is the much bigger system.  If OTA wants to go inter-operational, they're going to have to make the change, not EZ Pass.

Florida, which has a different system than EZ Pass's traditional system, managed to do it.  So the holdout is OTA, not EZ Pass.

TX/OK/KS has a superior technology, though.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

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jeffandnicole

Quote from: 1 on September 13, 2021, 08:24:14 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 13, 2021, 08:18:42 AM
Quote from: bugo on August 25, 2021, 08:36:27 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on August 25, 2021, 06:37:56 PM
I believe the reason for additional costs with toll by plate is due to fees associated with billing, processing, etc.

It has helped that Oklahoma has interoperability with Texas and Kansas tags, however they need to join up with the E-ZPass system sooner than later.

They can't connect to EZ Pass until EZ Pass modernizes its hardware to use modern passive transponder technology like Pikepass uses. rather than the ancient active transponder technology that EZ Pass uses.

EZ Pass is the much bigger system.  If OTA wants to go inter-operational, they're going to have to make the change, not EZ Pass.

Florida, which has a different system than EZ Pass's traditional system, managed to do it.  So the holdout is OTA, not EZ Pass.

TX/OK/KS has a superior technology, though.

And?  What are they doing with this superior technology?  How does it benefit anyone? 


skluth

Quote from: 1 on September 13, 2021, 08:24:14 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 13, 2021, 08:18:42 AM
Quote from: bugo on August 25, 2021, 08:36:27 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on August 25, 2021, 06:37:56 PM
I believe the reason for additional costs with toll by plate is due to fees associated with billing, processing, etc.

It has helped that Oklahoma has interoperability with Texas and Kansas tags, however they need to join up with the E-ZPass system sooner than later.

They can't connect to EZ Pass until EZ Pass modernizes its hardware to use modern passive transponder technology like Pikepass uses. rather than the ancient active transponder technology that EZ Pass uses.

EZ Pass is the much bigger system.  If OTA wants to go inter-operational, they're going to have to make the change, not EZ Pass.

Florida, which has a different system than EZ Pass's traditional system, managed to do it.  So the holdout is OTA, not EZ Pass.

TX/OK/KS has a superior technology, though.

So was Sony's Betamax which lost to VHS in the early VCR wars. Superior technology is less important than who wins the most adapters in consumer marketplace.

Scott5114

Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 13, 2021, 08:28:43 AM
Quote from: 1 on September 13, 2021, 08:24:14 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 13, 2021, 08:18:42 AM
Quote from: bugo on August 25, 2021, 08:36:27 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on August 25, 2021, 06:37:56 PM
I believe the reason for additional costs with toll by plate is due to fees associated with billing, processing, etc.

It has helped that Oklahoma has interoperability with Texas and Kansas tags, however they need to join up with the E-ZPass system sooner than later.

They can't connect to EZ Pass until EZ Pass modernizes its hardware to use modern passive transponder technology like Pikepass uses. rather than the ancient active transponder technology that EZ Pass uses.

EZ Pass is the much bigger system.  If OTA wants to go inter-operational, they're going to have to make the change, not EZ Pass.

Florida, which has a different system than EZ Pass's traditional system, managed to do it.  So the holdout is OTA, not EZ Pass.

TX/OK/KS has a superior technology, though.

And?  What are they doing with this superior technology? 

Not worrying about batteries.

As a Pikepass holder, I don't really care whether Pikepass and EZPass are ever interoperable. It would be nice, but not worth the hassles of going back to hard-shell transponders that require regular replacement. The number of people who drive in both OK and EZPassland on a regular basis is pretty small (you have to go across two whole states to get to the nearest EZPass roads), so there wouldn't be much benefit to it. Especially to me, since my car is old enough that if I'm driving that far away I'm probably going to rent a car for the trip and thus won't have my Pikepass anyway.

Besides, the hundred-pound gorilla in the room isn't OTA or KTA, it's TxDOT. There are probably way more TxTag/TollTag customers than there are Pikepass and KTAG customers combined.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

NJRoadfan

North Carolina and Florida uses multi-protocol readers at their toll plazas. NC installed them from the get-go since they only started tolling roads in 2007. FL's agencies likely replaced readers over the course of a few years as equipment reached EOL. I also wouldn't be surprised if the backend system inter-op was more of a hurdle vs. reading tags.

Eventually the E-ZPass agencies will move to multi-protocol readers and start issuing ISO 6B/6C sticker transponders (which can't happen until all roads have new readers). Changing established infrastructure is hard and takes time.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 13, 2021, 01:45:47 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 13, 2021, 08:28:43 AM
Quote from: 1 on September 13, 2021, 08:24:14 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 13, 2021, 08:18:42 AM
Quote from: bugo on August 25, 2021, 08:36:27 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on August 25, 2021, 06:37:56 PM
I believe the reason for additional costs with toll by plate is due to fees associated with billing, processing, etc.

It has helped that Oklahoma has interoperability with Texas and Kansas tags, however they need to join up with the E-ZPass system sooner than later.

They can't connect to EZ Pass until EZ Pass modernizes its hardware to use modern passive transponder technology like Pikepass uses. rather than the ancient active transponder technology that EZ Pass uses.

EZ Pass is the much bigger system.  If OTA wants to go inter-operational, they're going to have to make the change, not EZ Pass.

Florida, which has a different system than EZ Pass's traditional system, managed to do it.  So the holdout is OTA, not EZ Pass.

TX/OK/KS has a superior technology, though.

And?  What are they doing with this superior technology? 

Not worrying about batteries.


Batteries last 10-15 years. You'll need to replace them about 5 times in your driving life.

Stickers aren't removable. Many people get a new car every 5 - 10 years.  You'll need to replace the sticker at least 10 times in your driving life...and more so if you change cars more frequently...or simply have a windshield that needs replacing.

Hard-shell transponders actually are better in the regard.

ran4sh

They could just make the sticker removable.

And sticker transponders cost so little, that some agencies make them free (e.g. Peach Pass in Georgia)
Control cities CAN be off the route! Control cities make NO sense if signs end before the city is reached!

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SSOWorld

K-Tag stickers are at no cost.

Anyone renting a vehicle in OK, TX or KS are forced to do toll-by-plate or spend a fortune to use the agency's system - which does not normally use the in-state system due to the car's potential to be anywhere in the country at a given time. (TX especially - as none of the agencies provide a candy bar)
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

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Scott5114

Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 13, 2021, 05:29:39 PM
Batteries last 10-15 years. You'll need to replace them about 5 times in your driving life.

Stickers aren't removable. Many people get a new car every 5 - 10 years.  You'll need to replace the sticker at least 10 times in your driving life...and more so if you change cars more frequently...or simply have a windshield that needs replacing.

Hard-shell transponders actually are better in the regard.

If I really cared I could stick the sticker on with tape so I could remove it. But we have two cars, and they both have stickers, and I seldom rent cars, so I don't really have any place I'd move the transponder to if I could move it.

Getting a new sticker isn't too much of a problem, anyway. I just request one on the OTA website and it turns up in the mail a week or so later. There's no charge for it or anything. In most cases I would know I'm getting a windshield replaced or buying a new car with enough lead time to get the stickers ready ahead of time.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Scott5114 on September 13, 2021, 07:15:43 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 13, 2021, 05:29:39 PM
Batteries last 10-15 years. You'll need to replace them about 5 times in your driving life.

Stickers aren't removable. Many people get a new car every 5 - 10 years.  You'll need to replace the sticker at least 10 times in your driving life...and more so if you change cars more frequently...or simply have a windshield that needs replacing.

Hard-shell transponders actually are better in the regard.

If I really cared I could stick the sticker on with tape so I could remove it. But we have two cars, and they both have stickers, and I seldom rent cars, so I don't really have any place I'd move the transponder to if I could move it.

Getting a new sticker isn't too much of a problem, anyway. I just request one on the OTA website and it turns up in the mail a week or so later. There's no charge for it or anything. In most cases I would know I'm getting a windshield replaced or buying a new car with enough lead time to get the stickers ready ahead of time.

EZ Pass's hard shell passes are very easy to move to a rental, or to another vehicle, or onto another windshield, at a moment's notice.  Most windshield replacement companies in EZ Pass land routinely remount them as part of the replacement. 

And I don't know how the other states do it, but NJ sends out free replacement transponders near the end of their expected lifespan.  For the consumer, they don't need to be proactive whatsoever - they get the new transponders in the mail, and in the postage paid envelope, send the old ones back.

So it goes back to the question at hand...how does OK's ETC technology provide a better experience for the end user? 

Scott5114

The sidegate plazas at the SH-4/SH-76 interchange are all torn up, and toll collection is suspended. I wonder if they're converting SH-4 to Platepay. If so, they're going to have to replace all of the EXACT CHANGE ONLY signage, so hopefully they'll take that opportunity to publicly post SH-4.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef



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