Boston Traffic Reporter/Blogger Defends Use of '128' moniker

[The Nature Boy]

I agree with NE2's idea, but I imagine that Rhode Island might be pissed if Providence were taken off of the Interstate system.

[PHLBOS]

I'm reviving this thread due to the contents of today's (Sunday 7/19) Starts & Stops column in the Globe (available online by subscription only). The new (since mid-2014) columnist posted an e-mail she got from a reader asking why the media keeps referring to the section of I-93/US 1 between Canton and Braintree as Route 128 when it hasn't been signed that for years. Her response was to get someone at MassDOT to confirm that the reader was right that the section hasn't been 128 since 1989 and to post a photo of the overhead signage at the MA 138 South on-ramp to South I-93/US 1.  Her final comment is that it will take more than the truth though to convince 'the old-timers' to call it by any other name than 128. At least she seems to be open to that possibility though.

As previously mentioned, the issue with the I-93 stretch of old 128 is that not only did the number change but the direction cardinal changed as well (to the complete opposite).  So when one mentions of an accident along the southbound lane of I-93 at the Route 138 interchange; many (mostly old-timers) will still likely think that it's the southbound lanes of 128 (now I-93 northbound).  IMHO, the 128 designation along the Braintree-to-Canton stretch of the YDH should've been dropped a decade earlier than it was (US 1 rerouting or no US 1 rerouting) when the I-93 designation was still fairly new.
   
At least with the I-95 section of 128; the northbound/southbound cardinals for both routes are the same.  If Amtrak/MBTA renamed its Route 128 railroad station to something else or after a political or famous figure; MassDOT might be able to get away with truncating 128 to the US 1/MA 1A intechange (Exits 15A-B) in Dedham without too much of an issue.

[roadman]

Looks like the Globe's defense of the Route 128 designation is beginning to crack in places:  See the second item in the most recent Starts and Stops article:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/07/17/umass-boston-opens-new-section-harborwalk/NIo8AKMlZntPXwl00Ww2xK/story.html

[SidS1045]

Looks like the Globe's defense of the Route 128 designation is beginning to crack in places:  See the second item in the most recent Starts and Stops article:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/07/17/umass-boston-opens-new-section-harborwalk/NIo8AKMlZntPXwl00Ww2xK/story.html

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=7654.msg2079779#msg2079779

[Pete from Boston]

The "Starts & Stops" column has been a revolving door over the years, often seemingly a dumping ground for ladder-climbing reporters on their way elsewhere who often are not well versed in local transportation.  Hasn't been very sharp since Tom Palmer left (Mac Daniel was not bad, but seemed to be preemptively starting his paid-spokesman career a little soon at times).

[roadman]

Looks like the Globe's defense of the Route 128 designation is beginning to crack in places:  See the second item in the most recent Starts and Stops article:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/07/17/umass-boston-opens-new-section-harborwalk/NIo8AKMlZntPXwl00Ww2xK/story.html

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=7654.msg2079779#msg2079779

My bad for not checking this thread more thoroughly before posting the Starts and Stops item.

[bob7374]

Looks like the Globe's defense of the Route 128 designation is beginning to crack in places:  See the second item in the most recent Starts and Stops article:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/07/17/umass-boston-opens-new-section-harborwalk/NIo8AKMlZntPXwl00Ww2xK/story.html

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=7654.msg2079779#msg2079779

My bad for not checking this thread more thoroughly before posting the Starts and Stops item.

Not a problem. Thanks for posting the link. The Starts & Stop column has largely been about the T and not roads since the present columnist started, with the exception of the occasional bicycle column. The low point for my opinion of the columnist was the Fourth of July weekend when the column concluded with two sentences about potential traffic problems for the holiday traveler and a link to the MassDOT Travel Resources site. Lazy journalism IMO. Though in the two weeks since there have been highway stories (in the previous Sunday there was a story of MassDOT replacing a faded sign due to the complaints of a motorist), perhaps someone called her on that.

[roadman]

in the previous Sunday there was a story of MassDOT replacing a faded sign due to the complaints of a motorist

Does somebody have a link to this one - I can't seen to find the story among the few Starts and Stops columns the Globe has online.

[The Nature Boy]

The biggest issue is that out of towners are likely to be confused by Rt. 128 being used instead of I-95. Boston is a town that attracts a ton of out of towners for college. If you include kids who go to schools in the rest of Mass, New Hampshire and Southern Maine then you have a ton of kids and families from out of state who are trying to navigate the Boston area road system. The point of traffic reports is to be informative, not to reinforce whatever cultural biases the locals have.

[kkt]

Out of towners will be even more confused if locals tell them to take 128 and they can't find it.

I don't think FHA's bias against dual signing makes sense in this situation.

[SidS1045]

Out of towners will be even more confused if locals tell them to take 128 and they can't find it.

I don't think FHA's bias against dual signing makes sense in this situation.

Problem is, this isn't just a matter of signing.  The 128 designation was officially removed long ago from that stretch of I-93/US-1 between the I-95 junction in Canton and the MA-3 junction in Braintree (the "Braintree split").  Coming toward the Canton junction on I-95 south and continuing straight onto I-93, you will see the signs END 128, and BEGIN 128 going the other way.

It's a matter of archaic usage that has stuck pretty much indelibly.  Long before there were interstates and long before US-1 was rerouted to circumvent downtown Boston, that stretch of road was part of 128.  That endured for long enough that it seems most Bostonians won't give up the old numbering.

Historical note:  If you go back far enough, the original 128 expressway didn't even end at the Braintree split, but ran southeast concurrent with MA-3 to Rockland (currently Exit 14, originally Exit 30), then turned north, ending at the Hull/Cohasset line.  The stretch from MA-3 Exit 14 to Hull was renumbered MA-228 in 1967, and simultaneously MA-128 was loped off at the Braintree split, ending the concurrency with MA-3.  I don't recall that anyone (including traffic reporters) had any trouble adjusting to those re-designations.

And yes, we get a lot of out-of-towners, both students and tourists, but IMO it's not anymore difficult to know the area where "128 isn't 128" than it is to find one's way around the Boston area anyhow.  There's very little that's logical about it, except possibly for the alphabetical street grid in the Back Bay.  You have to memorize a lot.

[Pete from Boston]

Out of towners will be even more confused if locals tell them to take 128 and they can't find it.

I don't think FHA's bias against dual signing makes sense in this situation.

This just further reinforces that it's logical from a traveler-friendly point of view to have a name–any name–for the big "C" that runs from Braintree to Peabody (and beyond).  "128" is currently the best there is. Folks who think a hodgepodge of numbers along this route fills this need don't understand how people perceive geography in this area.

[The Nature Boy]

Out of towners will be even more confused if locals tell them to take 128 and they can't find it.

I don't think FHA's bias against dual signing makes sense in this situation.

This just further reinforces that it's logical from a traveler-friendly point of view to have a name–any name–for the big "C" that runs from Braintree to Peabody (and beyond).  "128" is currently the best there is. Folks who think a hodgepodge of numbers along this route fills this need don't understand how people perceive geography in this area.

It's obvious that the hodgepodge of numbers for what people refer to at Rt. 128 is problematic. I don't disagree with that. It was a massive screw up by MassDOT. But how do you fix it? The locals didn't take to the "Yankee Division Highway" name so giving it a non-number name won't work.

[roadman]

Out of towners will be even more confused if locals tell them to take 128 and they can't find it.

I don't think FHA's bias against dual signing makes sense in this situation.

This just further reinforces that it's logical from a traveler-friendly point of view to have a name—any name—for the big "C" that runs from Braintree to Peabody (and beyond).  "128" is currently the best there is. Folks who think a hodgepodge of numbers along this route fills this need don't understand how people perceive geography in this area.

It's obvious that the hodgepodge of numbers for what people refer to at Rt. 128 is problematic. I don't disagree with that. It was a massive screw up by MassDOT. But how do you fix it? The locals didn't take to the "Yankee Division Highway" name so giving it a non-number name won't work.

With due respect, the first screw up occurred in 1975, when MassDPW stopped changing out 128 shields for I-95 and I-93 ones and allowed 128 to remain on BGSes for years.  The second screw up occurred in the early 1990s, when the FHWA didn't mandate total removal of the 128 designation from the highway south of Peabody.

Had either of those things happened, we wouldn't be having this conservation.  And the world wouldn't have fallen off its axis, with dogs and cats living together, etc., either.

[PHLBOS]

Historical note:  If you go back far enough, the original 128 expressway didn't even end at the Braintree split, but ran southeast concurrent with MA-3 to Rockland (currently Exit 14, originally Exit 30), then turned north, ending at the Hull/Cohasset line.  The stretch from MA-3 Exit 14 to Hull was renumbered MA-228 in 1967, and simultaneously MA-128 was loped off at the Braintree split, ending the concurrency with MA-3.  I don't recall that anyone (including traffic reporters) had any trouble adjusting to those re-designations.

I had to look back at the previous pages of this thread to avoid any redundant regurgitation of info.

Since I was a bit young (roughly 2 years old) when the MA 3/128 concurrency along the Pilgrim's Highway last existed; was that stretch indeed referred to as Route 128 or Route 3 or both?  One has to wonder if the reasoning behind the 1967 trucation to Braintree along with the renumbering of the remaining non-highway 128 as MA 228 might have coincided with direction cardinals appearing on signs... be it BGS' or D6/D8 LGS assemblies?  The latter largely adopted such when the color scheme changed from white w/black lettering to the current green w/white lettering a year earlier (1966).  Previous generation signage just displayed the route number and that was it.  It was a bonus if a sign listed POINTS NORTH/SOUTH/EAST/WEST as part of the control destination.

Had 228 remained as the southern portion of 128; one would've really had a much more trouble with south is north/north is south concept with respect to LGS' and trailblazer signs (the latter would adopt direction cardinals by the late 70s/early 80s) moreso than the current I-93 stretch of the YDH (which actually runs east-west in this vicinity).

In hindsight, what MassDPW could've done circa 1967, in addition to the new 228 designation for the old pre-highway 128, was run 128 all the way down to Sagamore and forgo the MA 3 designation.  As previously stated; such would've been a better justification for keeping the 128 designation south of Peabody (though I would've kept such only on trailblazer signage for the I-93/95-occupied sections).  Side bar: most people treat US 3 from Burlington northward and MA 3 from Braintree south as two separate roads even though they both connect via other roads and highways; so similar could've been the case for a Cape Ann to Cape Cod 128.

[SidS1045]

Since I was a bit young (roughly 2 years old) when the MA 3/128 concurrency along the Pilgrim's Highway last existed; was that stretch indeed referred to as Route 128 or Route 3 or both?

In 1967 I was 16, so I wasn't paying a whole lot of attention to traffic reports for the South Shore while growing up on the North Shore.  However, what little I do remember suggests that stretch was referred to only as "Route 3," as in "Route 3, coming up from the Cape..." or "Route 3 leaving town..." much as it's done now.  (The moniker "Pilgrims' Highway" seems to have stuck about as well as "Yankee Division Highway.")  As I recall the 128 concurrency was largely ignored.

[Pete from Boston]

And the world wouldn't have fallen off its axis, with dogs and cats living together, etc., either.

As they have not anyway.

20/20 hindsight aside, they can do all of those things now.  It will still amount to government opting to attempt change how people think rather than accommodate how they do now.  The latter would be slightly less of a waste of time.

[roadman]

And the world wouldn't have fallen off its axis, with dogs and cats living together, etc., either.

As they have not anyway.

20/20 hindsight aside, they can do all of those things now.  It will still amount to government opting to attempt change how people think rather than accommodate how they do now.  The latter would be slightly less of a waste of time.

The keys to making the change work are a) to just go ahead and do it (i.e. remove the 128 markers); and b) insist that the traffic reporters and the media accept it.  # 1 is easy, #2 not so much.  However, it turns out that traffic reporters are not totally inflexible.  When the (long since inaccurate) name of the old Winchester Highlands exit was changed to the more correct Park Street as part of the last I-93 sign update, it only took about a week for MetroTraffic, etc., to start referring to the exit by the new name.

[KEVIN_224]

Here in greater Hartford, only two roads seem to have the name have priority over the numbered shield:

1- Berlin Turnpike, part of US 5/CT 15 from Meriden to Wethersfield
2- Silas Deane Highway, CT 99 from the Hartford/Wethersfield town line to Cromwell

Most, if not all, of I-84 between the Connecticut River to the New York state line, is the Yankee Division Highway, yet nobody ever calls it that.

When I'm on I-93 between Boston to Braintree, do I call it the Southeast Expressway? No. When I'm in I-90 from Boston to (usually) Sturbridge, do I call it the Massachusetts Turnpike? Yes. Probably because of the Turnpike being a toll road.

[The Nature Boy]

Here in greater Hartford, only two roads seem to have the name have priority over the numbered shield:

1- Berlin Turnpike, part of US 5/CT 15 from Meriden to Wethersfield
2- Silas Deane Highway, CT 99 from the Hartford/Wethersfield town line to Cromwell

Most, if not all, of I-84 between the Connecticut River to the New York state line, is the Yankee Division Highway, yet nobody ever calls it that.

When I'm on I-93 between Boston to Braintree, do I call it the Southeast Expressway? No. When I'm in I-90 from Boston to (usually) Sturbridge, do I call it the Massachusetts Turnpike? Yes. Probably because of the Turnpike being a toll road.

Is there a toll road where the numbered interstate takes precedence over the name? I haven't lived in Maine long enough to know if "Maine Turnpike" is used instead of I-95 but that might be a contender.

[KEVIN_224]

When I lived in Maine in the mid-1980s and on visits today, the Maine Turnpike name seemed/seems to get priority more.

As for Connecticut, get back to me on that. We haven't had a toll road or bridge since 1989.

[bob7374]

Since I was a bit young (roughly 2 years old) when the MA 3/128 concurrency along the Pilgrim's Highway last existed; was that stretch indeed referred to as Route 128 or Route 3 or both?

In 1967 I was 16, so I wasn't paying a whole lot of attention to traffic reports for the South Shore while growing up on the North Shore.  However, what little I do remember suggests that stretch was referred to only as "Route 3," as in "Route 3, coming up from the Cape..." or "Route 3 leaving town..." much as it's done now.  (The moniker "Pilgrims' Highway" seems to have stuck about as well as "Yankee Division Highway.")  As I recall the 128 concurrency was largely ignored.

Through my work I have access to archived South Shore newspapers from the 1960s. It appears that most reporters and advertisers referred to what today is MA 3/Pilgrims Highway south of Braintree as a continuation of the Southeast Expressway, especially in Hingham where the route opened around the same time as what today is considered the Expressway from Braintree north in 1959. One local car dealer though referred to there location as being off Exit 29 of Route 128 (today's Exit 15) after the Expressway was extended to Rockland in 1961. This continued even after 128 was truncated up through 1969. They still referred to being located off the SE Expressway on into the 1980s.

[roadman]

I recall seeing a couple of Massachusetts state highway maps from the early 1970s that had the "Southeast Expressway" notation on Route 3 south of Briantree as well.

[ATLRedSoxFan]

I recall seeing a couple of Massachusetts state highway maps from the early 1970s that had the "Southeast Expressway" notation on Route 3 south of Briantree as well.

I saw a tourist map in Plymouth last year that had Rte. 3 listed as the Southeast Expressway as well. Was it always that? I guess so.

[AMLNet49]

For those not in the Boston area, I-93 from Braintree to Boston is universally and without exception referred to as the Southeast Expressway (or more commonly, simply "the Expressway". In recent times (since 128 was removed), the remainder of I-93 to its end in Canton is occasionally referred to as the Southeast Expressway as well, but not as frequently.

Also, on a different but related note, the town of Canton has recently posted small trailblazers pointing towards I-93, which originally read "To Route 93", but then the signs were edited to say "To Rt. 128"