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WV Bond Issue - 2017

Started by SP Cook, February 09, 2017, 10:51:18 AM

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SP Cook

WV's new governor is proposing $2.9B in new borrowing for roads.

Taxes: 
- Raise car registration from $30 to $50 (in WV the county tax is additional to that, and is about $200 for a good standard car, that goes to schools)
- Extend tolls on WV Turnpike for 40 more years, and raise from $2 to $3 per booth, for $9 for a full trip of 88 miles. 
- Raise gas tax from 20.5 cents to 30.5
- POSSIBLE reduction in the price of a yearly pass on WV Turnpike from  $285/year to $8/year for state residents.

"Phase One" projects:
Expressways:

- Repair I-70 Bridge over the Ohio. $12.5M
- Build Corridor H from US 219 connector to WV 72.  $90M
- Build 4-lane US 340 from Virginia line to current 4 lane at Charles Town (this will make 340 4 lane from Berryville, VA to the start of the historic distict at Harper's Ferry).  $40M
- Build connector from I-64 Exit 54 to Corridor G @ first shopping center.  $65M
- Expand to 6-lanes I-64 from Exit 40 to Exit 45, including twin bridge over the Kanawha (this will make 64 6 lane from the I-77 JCT at MP 60 to Exit 39).  $170M
- Re-do Corridor H - I-79 interchange (I-79 Exit 99) . $15.5M
- Expand to 8-lanes from Exit 18 to Exit 20 (combined with a "phase 2" project this will make 64 6 or 8 lanes from Exit 11 to Exit 20, first 8-lane interstate in WV).  $65M
- Build King Coal Highway (US 52) from WV 123 to John Nash Blvd (3.8 miles, esentually equal to Bluefield city limits) .  $50M
- Build (right of way is already owned) Tolsia Highway (US 52) from I-64 to Prichard Intermodal Facility.  $150M
- Pave (aleady graded) Coalfield Expressway (US 121 if approved) in Wyoming County.  $54.5M.

Rest of Phase One is surface streets in Morgantown and Parkersburg, and a new 2 lane road for the Hospital in Berkeley Springs; and then $465M for "system and safety repairs, maintenance, bridge repairs and safety improvements."

"Phase Two"

Expressways:

- Re-do I-79-US 50 interchange.  $30M
- Expand to 6-lanes I-79 for 3 miles in Fairmont.  $60M
- Re-do I-79 Exit 155 Star City.
- Build new exit (the 5th) from I-79 in Morgantown and build elevated connector to "downtown".  $100M
- Upgrade to 6-lane an uspecified length of I-81.  $75M
- Improve US 340 near the Harper's Ferry historic district.  $10.5M
- Build frontage roads along Corridor G inside Charleston city limits.  $30M
- Build 4-lane bypass US 522 around Berkeley Springs.  $40M
- Upgrade to 6-lanes I-64 from Exit 15 to 18.  $50M
- Build new exit for I-64 at Culloden (MP 30)  $50M
- Build King Coal Highway (US 52)  from Horsepen Mountin to Gilbert.  $40M
- Build Coalfield Expressway (US 121 if approved) from WV 16 to Welch.  $110M

Parkways:
- New River Parkway.  Sandstone to Fall Branch (about 40% of the eventual route).

Rest of Phase Two is surface road improvements in New Cumberland, Morgantown, Berkeley Springs, Cross Lanes, Spencer, and Barboursville,  various widening of WV 2 in several places, and $15.5M for WV 10 upgrades (curve removal and like that, not 4 lane replacement) from Man (current 4 lane end) to its end near Princeton; and $15M for similar work on WV 10 from Corridor G @ Chapmanville to I-64 @ Huntington.  And $370M as above for "general".

My commentary.  Nothing for the new gov's home area.  Good for him.  The last two govs both built boondoggle projects in their home counties. 

I think this will pass the legislature.  WV process is that it has to pass the legislature and then the voters.  Even under GOP control, the legislature can just say "let the voters decide", which is, well, right.  The election will be tight.  You can see what projects are left off (rest of H, although some of that is funded already; rest of the two US 52 projects; rest of US 121; downtown Huntington access).  Also you can see that the northern panhandle and the gov's home region of SE WV get almost nothing, while Morgantown gets a lot of surface streets and the only project (a 5th I-79 exit and downtown connector) that they do not even have a location for yet, and thw WV coalfields get a lot. 

The anti- spin in southern WV will be "you pay, Morgantown benefits".   Which is pretty accurate.  Turnpike is paying for a lot of this.  Big issue in southern WV.    Spin in northern panhandle is "you get nothing" which is also pretty accurate.  Spin in Huntington (which is getting a lot of bypass, but nothing in the city limits) is "here we go again", as conventional wisdom in Huntington is that the town screwed up 60 years ago when 64 bypassed town but went through Charleston, this will be compounded by Morgantown (WVU) getting exactly the downtown connector Huntington (Marshall) has asked for for 60 years.   Spin outside of the coalfields will be "waste" which is also pretty accurate as none of the big projects (52 and 121) make a lot of sense even if finished and this does not come close to finishing them, and the WV 10 upgrades are right through the heart of the most dying area. 

Pro spin is, as always "jobs, jobs, jobs" and all of that.

Election will be close.

JMO



froggie

Quote- Expand to 8-lanes from Exit 18 to Exit 20 (combined with a "phase 2" project this will make 64 6 or 8 lanes from Exit 11 to Exit 20, first 8-lane interstate in WV).  $65M

Is this really necessary?  WV traffic, even in the I-64 corridor, doesn't scream "lanes lanes lanes!" to me.

Quote- Upgrade to 6-lane an uspecified length of I-81.  $75M

Given the already-underway Potomac River bridge project, this might be enough to finish 6-laning of I-81 in WV.

Quote(US 121 if approved)

AASHTO approved US 121 in 2005.


SP Cook

Quote from: froggie on February 09, 2017, 11:48:33 AM
Quote- Expand to 8-lanes from Exit 18 to Exit 20 (combined with a "phase 2" project this will make 64 6 or 8 lanes from Exit 11 to Exit 20, first 8-lane interstate in WV).  $65M

Is this really necessary?  WV traffic, even in the I-64 corridor, doesn't scream "lanes lanes lanes!" to me.



The eventual plan is 6 lanes from MP 6 to the 77 JCT, which is about 52 miles.  The original build was 6 laned from I-77 to MP 54 and since the '70s westbound traffic came to a standstil everyday at rush hour in South Charleston.  In the '90s it was 6 laned from 54 to MP 45 along with a short section between MP 39 and 40 related to the US 35 upgrade and traffic comes to a standstill every day not only outbound from Charleston but also in-bound.  It is, IMHO, unquestionable that the gap in 6-lanes between 45 and 40 should be finished.  The road is clearly over-capacity.

Now, moving on to west of 39.  This project, along with some work already completed means a 6 (or 8) lane from MP 11 to 20.  I don't know.   It is the busiest road in the state not currently 6 lanes, but, as you say, this is WV.  It not the most fun drive, as it has a lot of left-lane banditry, especially big trucks and it is (eastbound) just enough of a grade to slow down trucks enough that they should not be left at all.  But traffic does not come to a stop.  Also note that the parallel surface street of US 60 is getting 4 laned as well in this proposal.

As to the rest, which is not a part of this proposal (MP 20 to 39) it has a certain "I-81 in Virginia" feel to  it, which is not fun, but it is not over-capacity. 

Personally, I would prefer to see Huntington's share of this be the never built elevated connector from the East End Bridge to US 60 and I-64, which is less than a mile as the crow flies; a downtown connector from Exit 11; and construction of the (right of way bought decades ago)  4 lane from I-64 Exit 11 to the JCT of WV 10 and ALT 10.

JMO


hbelkins

Quote from: SP Cook on February 09, 2017, 10:51:18 AM
- POSSIBLE reduction in the price of a yearly pass on WV Turnpike from  $285/year to $8/year for state residents.

What is this? Some sort of E-ZPass transponder that allows passage through the toll booths?

Quote
- Build 4-lane US 340 from Virginia line to current 4 lane at Charles Town (this will make 340 4 lane from Berryville, VA to the start of the historic distict at Harper's Ferry).  $40M

Seems to me four-laning all of 522 would be a higher priority, since it gets a lot of through traffic as a shortcut from I-81 at Winchester to I-70 and I-68 to Hancock.


Quote
- Build connector from I-64 Exit 54 to Corridor G @ first shopping center.  $65M

I enjoy driving US 119 sometimes as a change of pace, although it's longer than taking I-64 to Charleston, and Kentucky is gradually improving the best route for me to take to hit 64 ... until I top that hill where the radar tower is and hit that mess out at Walmart/Sam's Club.[/quote]

Quote
- Re-do Corridor H - I-79 interchange (I-79 Exit 99) . $15.5M

Trying to enter or exit from I-79 south is funky because of the weaving, and then there's a grade on either side of the interchange. This one will require a lot of blasting. My guess is that the project will retain the loop from Corridor H to southbound 79, but will replace the ramp from southbound 79 to H. [/quote]

Quote
- Pave (aleady graded) Coalfield Expressway (US 121 if approved) in Wyoming County.  $54.5M.

Where is this? Does it extend from the current end of 121, which is in Raleigh County, on toward Mullens, or is it a different segment? Aerials show a lot of the grade done beyond the current end of 121 at CR 34 (Slab Fork). If any of this is accessible from side routes, it might make a decent stop on the Beckley area meet I'm contemplating.

Quote
"Phase Two"

- Build King Coal Highway (US 52)  from Horsepen Mountin to Gilbert.  $40M

Isn't a lot of the grade for this already done? There seems to be a lot of at-grade road beyond the existing end of the four-lane at the WV 44 connector, and several years ago Sherman Cahal arranged for a meet with someone at the Coalfields Expressway Authority to take us up to a combo mining project/highway construction project northwest of Gilbert.

Quote- Build Coalfield Expressway (US 121 if approved) from WV 16 to Welch.  $110M

Would this extend from the end of the paving segment you mentioned earlier?

Quote
Parkways:
- New River Parkway.  Sandstone to Fall Branch (about 40% of the eventual route).

I vaguely remember this being discussed. I think it has already been assigned a route number, that being WV 125.

Quote
Rest of Phase Two is surface road improvements in New Cumberland, Morgantown, Berkeley Springs, Cross Lanes, Spencer, and Barboursville,  various widening of WV 2 in several places, and $15.5M for WV 10 upgrades (curve removal and like that, not 4 lane replacement) from Man (current 4 lane end) to its end near Princeton; and $15M for similar work on WV 10 from Corridor G @ Chapmanville to I-64 @ Huntington.  And $370M as above for "general".

WV 2 carries quite a bit of traffic. I really don't have a preference on using it vs. OH 7 if I'm going somewhere and the route takes me parallel to the river. In fact, if I'm in the Parkersburg area and am heading home, I'm more likely to use WV 2 and WV 193 instead of I-77 and I-64 to get to Huntington. I don't think WV 10 needs a full new route, but reconstruction across some of the mountains would be nice.

QuoteMy commentary.  Nothing for the new gov's home area.  Good for him.  The last two govs both built boondoggle projects in their home counties. 

Where is he from?


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

froggie

Copy the I-64 explanation.  Some of the 6-laning seems logical, but based on traffic data plus my own experience, 8 lanes seems like overkill.

Quote from: hbelkinsSeems to me four-laning all of 522 would be a higher priority, since it gets a lot of through traffic as a shortcut from I-81 at Winchester to I-70 and I-68 to Hancock.

Not as much as you might think.  US 522 at the VA/WV line is barely over 6,000 vehicles a day, and much of that is undoubtedly local traffic.  US 340 south of Charlestown is roughly twice that.  Furthermore, since there's only a ~4mi gap in the US 340 4-lane between Berryville and Charlestown, it can be much more easily funded than any appreciable US 522 widening.

ARMOURERERIC

I lived in Knoxville MD 1988 to 1991 and did most of my major shopping in Charles Town, US 340 was a disaster through Harpers Ferry even back then.  I would like to see what improvements are involved, but with that price tag, it does not seem much.

Bitmapped

Quote from: SP Cook on February 09, 2017, 10:51:18 AM
- Build new exit (the 5th) from I-79 in Morgantown and build elevated connector to "downtown".  $100M

Not quite. The proposal is for a partial northern bypass of Morgantown. New I-79 interchange at Pursglove (where US 19/WV 7) cross under I-79, a new Monongahela River bridge, and new road over to the intersection of Van Voorhis Road and West Run Road, then upgrades along Bakers Ridge Road to US 119. This is intended to provide an alternative to WV 705.

SP Cook

Quote from: hbelkins on February 09, 2017, 04:05:06 PM
What is this? Some sort of E-ZPass transponder that allows passage through the toll booths?


Short on details.  Currently you can get a yearly pass ($300/year, with $15 discount for using a credit card) and it is just an ezpass that does not charge you anything.  At $8 that is not even covering the cost of administration.  All he says is it will be via the DMV (not the corrupt Turnpike administration) so my guess is some sort of sticker or plate that you just get waived through.  The Turnpike's volume is not so much that an old fashioned waive through is not acceptable.

Quote
Seems to me four-laning all of 522 would be a higher priority, since it gets a lot of through traffic as a shortcut from I-81 at Winchester to I-70 and I-68 to Hancock.

I always thought that 522 would be a great 4 lane toll road. 

Quote
I enjoy driving US 119 sometimes as a change of pace, although it's longer than taking I-64 to Charleston, and Kentucky is gradually improving the best route for me to take to hit 64 ... until I top that hill where the radar tower is and hit that mess out at Walmart/Sam's Club.

Same ole story as lots of places.  When Corridor G was built in the late 80s the shopping area was worthless rural land with a few trailers.  Now it has grown so much that the real purpose of G, which is to get people into town or to the interstate, is becoming difficult due to traffic.   This will help some. 

QuoteWhere is this? Does it extend from the current end of 121, which is in Raleigh County, on toward Mullens, or is it a different segment? Aerials show a lot of the grade done beyond the current end of 121 at CR 34 (Slab Fork). If any of this is accessible from side routes, it might make a decent stop on the Beckley area meet I'm contemplating.


Pretty much the CE is being built east to west in order, which is to say when you come to the end, the next section is the next section to be built, AFAIK. 

Quote

Isn't a lot of the grade for this already done? There seems to be a lot of at-grade road beyond the existing end of the four-lane at the WV 44 connector, and several years ago Sherman Cahal arranged for a meet with someone at the Coalfields Expressway Authority to take us up to a combo mining project/highway construction project northwest of Gilbert.

Yeah.  Pretty much if I have this figured right this is the rest of the "win-win" coal mining reclamation area.  If they ever go south of Gilbert, its regular construction.

Quote

Where is he from?

White Sulphur Springs, which is Greenbrier County (he owns the Greenbrier Resort).  You will note almost nothing for SE WV at all, not that (farm country) it really needs a whole lot.  A bypass of Lewisburg would be nice, 64 JCT is the north edge of town and its about 4 miles of town street (singular, no alternate) to the south end, which is where the hospital, schools, and state fair grounds are.  Can be a mess. 

Gov has a dream of building a 6th golf course for his resort and attracting the US Open.  I say pipedream, but the regular PGA event he has is held back by major parking and transportation issues.  The parking is 8 miles from the course, which is not acceptable for a Major. 

sparker

Does the listed Gilbert-area section of King Coal/US 52 have value as a localized SIU, or it is simply a matter of finishing off a "pilot project" started during the times when the corridor was visualized as mostly re-purposed mining facilities? 

GCrites

Quote from: froggie on February 09, 2017, 09:40:10 PM
Copy the I-64 explanation.  Some of the 6-laning seems logical, but based on traffic data plus my own experience, 8 lanes seems like overkill.

Quote from: hbelkinsSeems to me four-laning all of 522 would be a higher priority, since it gets a lot of through traffic as a shortcut from I-81 at Winchester to I-70 and I-68 to Hancock.

Not as much as you might think.  US 522 at the VA/WV line is barely over 6,000 vehicles a day, and much of that is undoubtedly local traffic.  US 340 south of Charlestown is roughly twice that.  Furthermore, since there's only a ~4mi gap in the US 340 4-lane between Berryville and Charlestown, it can be much more easily funded than any appreciable US 522 widening.


6,000 VPD? some of these projects have the most ridiculously low VPD/$million spent ratios that they're just silly

Bitmapped

Quote from: GCrites80s on February 10, 2017, 05:04:15 PM
Quote from: froggie on February 09, 2017, 09:40:10 PM
Copy the I-64 explanation.  Some of the 6-laning seems logical, but based on traffic data plus my own experience, 8 lanes seems like overkill.

Quote from: hbelkinsSeems to me four-laning all of 522 would be a higher priority, since it gets a lot of through traffic as a shortcut from I-81 at Winchester to I-70 and I-68 to Hancock.

Not as much as you might think.  US 522 at the VA/WV line is barely over 6,000 vehicles a day, and much of that is undoubtedly local traffic.  US 340 south of Charlestown is roughly twice that.  Furthermore, since there's only a ~4mi gap in the US 340 4-lane between Berryville and Charlestown, it can be much more easily funded than any appreciable US 522 widening.


6,000 VPD? some of these projects have the most ridiculously low VPD/$million spent ratios that they're just silly

It'd probably be OK as 2-lanes with a bypass of Berkeley Springs and full width shoulders and turn lanes, but WV doesn't really build that style of road. Given that Virginia has already 4-laned its section and this serves as a connector between I-68/I-70 and I-81, I'm OK with 4-laning this. It'd be a lot more useful than other projects WV talks about building.

Bitmapped

Quote from: sparker on February 10, 2017, 04:54:10 PM
Does the listed Gilbert-area section of King Coal/US 52 have value as a localized SIU, or it is simply a matter of finishing off a "pilot project" started during the times when the corridor was visualized as mostly re-purposed mining facilities? 

The new construction would be an extension of the section of King Coal Highway from WV 44 to WV 65 that opened several years ago. Grading has already been underway for most of this part for a number of years as the mining has taken place. Horsepen Mountain, which this would bypass, is the worst remaining piece of US 52. I don't like the King Coal/Tolsia plans in general but this is one section that I think does make sense to build.

The plans to build 4 lanes are overkill for the traffic. 2 lanes for the Gilbert connector part at the bottom would be fine. 2+climbing uphill would work OK, but since they're seemingly planning to build this with a narrow median (like US 52/US 119 north of Williamson), the cost for the fourth lane probably isn't that much more and it would let cars pass trucks going slow downhill.

SP Cook

Talked to a friend of mine at WV DOT and he said that he believed part of the proposal would be yet more tolls.

- The currently under construction (and already funded) gap in US 35, which this was a proposal several years ago, until the corrupt Turnpike commission over-played its hand and announced the confiscatory price.
- WV 43, which is a toll road in PA and which was supposed to be tolled all along, done in by the cost of the Turnpike having such a small endeavor at the other end of the state (more on that later).
- The Buffalo (or Toyota) Bridge, which connects US 35 to Toyota's engine and transmission plant.  This would prevent "shunpiking" by simply crossing the river just before the tolled section of 35 and driving up the not that bad road on the other side of the river.
- The uncompleted parts of Corridor H.

The actual Turnpike commission will be abolished.  (Yeah!!!)  Currently the highway work on the existing Turnpike is done by a separate set of employees, and the State Police have a separate dedicated set of random taxers.  Rather all the toll roads will simply be maintained by the regular DOH and policed by the regular SP, with toll money flowing into their budgets as appropriate.

The ability to toll roads which are not fully controlled access will be interesting.   Merging the turnpike's employees (who make more money than DOH workers in the same jobs) and the SP (many of whom are put on the turnpike, where they do nothing but write tickets, because they have skeletons in their closet that prevent them from appearing in court or are simply screw-ups) , will be interesting as well.

He said that indeed the pass will be the lowest of low tech.  State residents, and state residents only, and only vehicles in DMV class A (cars, light trucks and SUVs) or class G (motorcycles), and only vehicles owned by individuals (not companies) can (and why would you not) buy a windshield sticker for $8/vehicle/year and be exempted from all tolls statewide.

Commentary: 

Adding tolls in other regions, and eliminating the actual turnpike administration, which blows through money on dumb ideas, may help with some of the southern legislators and voters. 

This is, of course, a slippery slope.  Imagine every state with a plethora of toll roads, with the locals paying a token amount for a yearly pass, and out of staters and companies paying out the nose.  The freedom of movement that we all enjoy is somewhat threatened. 



hbelkins

Quote from: Bitmapped on February 10, 2017, 06:35:38 PM
Quote from: sparker on February 10, 2017, 04:54:10 PM
Does the listed Gilbert-area section of King Coal/US 52 have value as a localized SIU, or it is simply a matter of finishing off a "pilot project" started during the times when the corridor was visualized as mostly re-purposed mining facilities? 

The new construction would be an extension of the section of King Coal Highway from WV 44 to WV 65 that opened several years ago. Grading has already been underway for most of this part for a number of years as the mining has taken place. Horsepen Mountain, which this would bypass, is the worst remaining piece of US 52. I don't like the King Coal/Tolsia plans in general but this is one section that I think does make sense to build.

The plans to build 4 lanes are overkill for the traffic. 2 lanes for the Gilbert connector part at the bottom would be fine. 2+climbing uphill would work OK, but since they're seemingly planning to build this with a narrow median (like US 52/US 119 north of Williamson), the cost for the fourth lane probably isn't that much more and it would let cars pass trucks going slow downhill.

Hey! You're forgetting that this is going to be part of Interstate 73/74!!!! </sarcasm>

The current northwestern terminus at WV 65 at Red Jacket (the mountain crossing between Delbarton and Matewan) is not a logical place to end a new route. If Horsepen Mountain is the worst remaining part, then the mountain between Williamson and Delbarton (can't recall the name, is it Buffalo?) is the second-worst.  They at least need to finish the route from the Williamson area to WV 65.

If I'm going to use US 52 beyond Gilbert, I don't even bother with Williamson. I will cross into West Virginia at Kermit, use US 52 and WV 65 to get to US 119, then will take US 119 and connector routes (WV 73 or old US 119, at one time signed as an extension of WV 44 before having the state designation removed) to Logan, then WV 10 to Man and WV 80 to Gilbert, to reconnect with US 52.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Tom958

I'd like to know more about
Quote- Build connector from I-64 Exit 54 to Corridor G @ first shopping center.  $65M

Bitmapped

Quote from: hbelkins on February 11, 2017, 12:06:28 PM
Quote from: Bitmapped on February 10, 2017, 06:35:38 PM
Quote from: sparker on February 10, 2017, 04:54:10 PM
Does the listed Gilbert-area section of King Coal/US 52 have value as a localized SIU, or it is simply a matter of finishing off a "pilot project" started during the times when the corridor was visualized as mostly re-purposed mining facilities? 

The new construction would be an extension of the section of King Coal Highway from WV 44 to WV 65 that opened several years ago. Grading has already been underway for most of this part for a number of years as the mining has taken place. Horsepen Mountain, which this would bypass, is the worst remaining piece of US 52. I don't like the King Coal/Tolsia plans in general but this is one section that I think does make sense to build.

The plans to build 4 lanes are overkill for the traffic. 2 lanes for the Gilbert connector part at the bottom would be fine. 2+climbing uphill would work OK, but since they're seemingly planning to build this with a narrow median (like US 52/US 119 north of Williamson), the cost for the fourth lane probably isn't that much more and it would let cars pass trucks going slow downhill.

Hey! You're forgetting that this is going to be part of Interstate 73/74!!!! </sarcasm>

The current northwestern terminus at WV 65 at Red Jacket (the mountain crossing between Delbarton and Matewan) is not a logical place to end a new route. If Horsepen Mountain is the worst remaining part, then the mountain between Williamson and Delbarton (can't recall the name, is it Buffalo?) is the second-worst.  They at least need to finish the route from the Williamson area to WV 65.

If I'm going to use US 52 beyond Gilbert, I don't even bother with Williamson. I will cross into West Virginia at Kermit, use US 52 and WV 65 to get to US 119, then will take US 119 and connector routes (WV 73 or old US 119, at one time signed as an extension of WV 44 before having the state designation removed) to Logan, then WV 10 to Man and WV 80 to Gilbert, to reconnect with US 52.

There's a simple fix for this. Redesignate WV 65 north of Delbarton as US 52. It's shorter and doesn't have the mountain crossings that current US 52 does. King Coal Highway was going to follow this route to bypass Williamson anyway.

Buck87

So if this does go to an election, when would that be? As early as this year's primary? November?

SP Cook

Quote from: Tom958 on February 11, 2017, 06:13:33 PM
I'd like to know more about
- Build connector from I-64 Exit 54 to Corridor G @ first shopping center.  $65M

OK.  If you take exit 54, it is quite long ramp down to MacCorkle Ave.  You can make an immediate turn onto Jefferson Road, which is a surface street, this come to an end at a convoluted deal where you cross a railroad, turn left and then immediately right onto Davis Creek Road, which runs out to the Davis Creek Exit of Corridor G (an actual exit with ramps) just north of the shopping center area.   

Jefferson Road and Davis Creek Road are functionally two lane streets (there are some turn lanes which are not relevant to this discussion).  A complex as it sounds this is the appropriate way to connect between I-64 eastbound and Corridor G southbound (or v-v).  Both Jefferson Road and Davis Creek Road are thus grossly backed up at all hours of the day. 

This idea is for a four lane expansion of Jefferson Road, ending at a proper bridge over the railroad and then a new 4-lane to replace Davis Creek Road on the other side of Davis Creek itself then turning slightly west, eliminating the zig-zag and increasing capacity.  The road will end at the back side of the first shopping center.  Some of the land is being donated by the shopping center management.

More or less this is an upgrade to WV 601.

[/quote]
Quote from: Buck87 on February 12, 2017, 12:13:15 PM
So if this does go to an election, when would that be? As early as this year's primary? November?

There is no primary or general election this year.  West Virginia has a Constitutional prohibition on borrowing money (what is called in federal debate a "balanced budget amendment" although that is technically wrong at the state level since it was always in the state Constitution) so what people call a "road bond" is actually a Constitutional amendment that provides an exception to that prohibition.  The process of amending the Constitution is a vote by the Legislature and then a vote of the people.  It is up to the Legislature when it is, legally they could do it whenever they wanted, if willing to pay for a special election, or wait until November of 18.  They won't want to wait that long because they need the money now, so my guess is sometime in late summer of 17, maybe on a Saturday (which saves because teachers and state employees get off for elections).  It is probable that the GOP legislature has a couple of other Constitutional amendments it wants as well (Right To Work and changing the way the Legislature is apportioned, among others) so they will probably have a two or three question referendum.   

hbelkins

Been awhile since I've been out on G. Does the Davis Creek exit have signage for "To US 60?"

We used WV 601 to get from QSL to the then-under construction I-64 bridge during our Charleston meet a decade ago.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

GCrites

Quote from: SP Cook on February 11, 2017, 11:30:03 AM


This is, of course, a slippery slope.  Imagine every state with a plethora of toll roads, with the locals paying a token amount for a yearly pass, and out of staters and companies paying out the nose.  The freedom of movement that we all enjoy is somewhat threatened.

Almost sounds like Kentucky in the '70s besides the staggered tolls.

SP Cook

Quote from: hbelkins on February 12, 2017, 04:48:41 PM
Been awhile since I've been out on G. Does the Davis Creek exit have signage for "To US 60?"


Nope.  "the shortcut" is just one of those "local knowledge" things.  It is just signed WV 601 and "South Charleston" with no mention of I-64 or US 60, with staying on G reading "Charleston".  I assume if ever built the new road will get signage for 64. 

Technically, the "South Charleston"  and "Charleston" are wrong because a motorist has already been in both multiple times.  The shopping area on G is insane quilt of land annexed by one town or another.  You can cross between the towns 5 times in one parking lot.  The very few people who lived out there before G was finished screwed up, because they could have started their own little town and raked in all those taxes for themselves.  They could have had gold plated manhole covers.


hbelkins

Quote from: SP Cook on February 13, 2017, 09:06:00 AM
Technically, the "South Charleston"  and "Charleston" are wrong because a motorist has already been in both multiple times.  The shopping area on G is insane quilt of land annexed by one town or another.  You can cross between the towns 5 times in one parking lot.  The very few people who lived out there before G was finished screwed up, because they could have started their own little town and raked in all those taxes for themselves.  They could have had gold plated manhole covers.

South Charleston has always been curiously named, at least in my eyes. What it's south of is the river. When I think of Charleston, I think of the the area around the 64/77 split, Town Center, the state capitol building, etc. To me, South Charleston should be what's commonly called Kanawha City, and the existing South Charleston should really be East Dunbar.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Buck87

Quote from: SP Cook on February 12, 2017, 03:39:40 PM
There is no primary or general election this year.  West Virginia has a Constitutional prohibition on borrowing money (what is called in federal debate a "balanced budget amendment" although that is technically wrong at the state level since it was always in the state Constitution) so what people call a "road bond" is actually a Constitutional amendment that provides an exception to that prohibition.  The process of amending the Constitution is a vote by the Legislature and then a vote of the people.  It is up to the Legislature when it is, legally they could do it whenever they wanted, if willing to pay for a special election, or wait until November of 18.  They won't want to wait that long because they need the money now, so my guess is sometime in late summer of 17, maybe on a Saturday (which saves because teachers and state employees get off for elections).  It is probable that the GOP legislature has a couple of other Constitutional amendments it wants as well (Right To Work and changing the way the Legislature is apportioned, among others) so they will probably have a two or three question referendum.

Interesting, so are they always no regular WV elections in odd years? And is that only for state wide issues, or does it also apply to the local level stuff too? Where I'm from we alway have both a spring and November election every year, with some of those only having local issues on the ballot.

Quote from: hbelkins on February 13, 2017, 09:35:41 AM
South Charleston has always been curiously named, at least in my eyes. What it's south of is the river. When I think of Charleston, I think of the the area around the 64/77 split, Town Center, the state capitol building, etc. To me, South Charleston should be what's commonly called Kanawha City, and the existing South Charleston should really be East Dunbar.

Yeah, seems weird that they didn't just call it West Charleston.

hbelkins

Quote from: Buck87 on February 13, 2017, 12:13:32 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on February 12, 2017, 03:39:40 PM
There is no primary or general election this year.  West Virginia has a Constitutional prohibition on borrowing money (what is called in federal debate a "balanced budget amendment" although that is technically wrong at the state level since it was always in the state Constitution) so what people call a "road bond" is actually a Constitutional amendment that provides an exception to that prohibition.  The process of amending the Constitution is a vote by the Legislature and then a vote of the people.  It is up to the Legislature when it is, legally they could do it whenever they wanted, if willing to pay for a special election, or wait until November of 18.  They won't want to wait that long because they need the money now, so my guess is sometime in late summer of 17, maybe on a Saturday (which saves because teachers and state employees get off for elections).  It is probable that the GOP legislature has a couple of other Constitutional amendments it wants as well (Right To Work and changing the way the Legislature is apportioned, among others) so they will probably have a two or three question referendum.

Interesting, so are they always no regular WV elections in odd years? And is that only for state wide issues, or does it also apply to the local level stuff too? Where I'm from we alway have both a spring and November election every year, with some of those only having local issues on the ballot.

Kentucky eliminated an election cycle back in 1989, when local elected officials were given a one-time-only five-year term. Prior to that, Kentucky had an election every year, including one cycle that involved only the midterm congressional races. By giving the local officials a five-year term for one term only, their elections were then aligned with the congressional midterms, which had always been the elections with the lowest turnout. This also saved state and local governments a quarter of their quadrennial election costs.

I'm in favor of doing the same thing for state officials. Give then a one-time-only five-year term and align their elections with the presidential election, and eliminate another cycle and save even more money.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

SP Cook

Quote from: Buck87 on February 13, 2017, 12:13:32 PM

Interesting, so are they always no regular WV elections in odd years? And is that only for state wide issues, or does it also apply to the local level stuff too? Where I'm from we alway have both a spring and November election every year, with some of those only having local issues on the ballot.

WV state and county offices are all terms of 2, 4, 6, 8, or 12 years and are all elected in even years, when there is a federal election anyway.  This is different from our neighbor states of Kentucky and Virginia which have state elections in odd years. 

Towns can do whatever they want.  Some just add on to regular elections, others have elections at all manner of other times.  Some have Republicans and Democrats, some have local parties (often "Citizen's" and "People's" ) some are non-partisan, some have primaries, some do not, in some towns you have to register to vote seperatly, some use the county book, it is whatever the town wants.   

Quote from: hbelkins on February 13, 2017, 09:35:41 AM
South Charleston has always been curiously named, at least in my eyes. What it's south of is the river. When I think of Charleston, I think of the the area around the 64/77 split, Town Center, the state capitol building, etc. To me, South Charleston should be what's commonly called Kanawha City, and the existing South Charleston should really be East Dunbar.

Quote
Yeah, seems weird that they didn't just call it West Charleston.

It looks that way from the interstate because you first come to South Charleston and then Charleston traveling W to E on I-64, but there is a lot of Charleston you do not see from the interstate.    South Charleston is both south of Charleston (the Charleston neighborhood of North Charleston is directly across the river) and west of Charleston  (the Charleston neighborhood of South Hills).  BTW, there is an island called Blaine Island in the river between South Charleston and North Charleston which is part of South Charleston.  It is covered by part of the Dow Chemical plant and connected to the rest of the plant on the SC side by pipes and walkways.



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