Major League sports expansion sites

[1995hoo]

Regarding the comment above about moving the Coyotes, if that were to happen the league would almost certainly prefer to keep them somewhere in the West to avoid realignment headaches. Currently the split is 16 teams in the Eastern Conference (all of them in the Eastern Time Zone, too) and 15 teams in the Western (none in the Eastern Time Zone).

It's widely believed that an expansion team would go to Seattle if they could work out the arena situation, and if that were to occur the league might then allow the Florida Panthers to move to Quebec City. The league is dead-set against Southern Ontario, other than maybe considering a second team in Toronto, because of concern about what might happen to the Sabres. The Sabres draw a fair number of Canadians to their games because of the cost and difficulty of obtaining Leafs tickets. (This is why the Sabres have both anthems before every game.) A team in Hamilton or somewhere might suck away a good chunk of that attendance.

[Desert Man]

Yes, I mentioned the Phoenix metro area, which has nearly a million winter seasonal residents (the US census states 1.5 million live in Phoenix), can make the key city the 4th largest ahead of Chicago (Houston surpasses them in city population first) in a decade from now. They have the spring training Cactus League (15? teams), as well Florida's Grapefruit League (another 15 teams). I don't believe the Tampa Bay (formerly Devil) Rays want to relocate elsewhere - unless they accept Orlando's offer (by 2021 or 22?). Arizona and Florida are states where more people move into than leave. And the Oakland A's like the mild Bay Area climate and 6 world series appearances (four championship titles, 3 in a row, 1972-74) after they set down in 1968 (almost 50 years ago) - I wonder they'll end up in Sacramento in 3 or 4 years. 

[Desert Man]

And about Phoenix's ice hockey team: The Coyotes should move to Oklahoma (either OKC or Tulsa) - they have large sports arenas, since OKC has the NBA basketball Thunder. The Tulsa Shock of the WNBA before they relocated to Dallas was Tulsa's only pro sports team. Anyone up for the Tulsa or Oklahoma Coyotes? 

How about the Florida Panthers go to Atlanta? and the Carolina Hurricanes go to Houston? I suggest a team in Saskatoon and Seattle (Western conference) and Quebec City (Eastern conference) with the Nashville Predators switched conferences. Here's the alignment plan (to 34 teams by 2026-27):
EASTERN
ATLANTIC
Atlanta Panthers, Columbus Blue Jackets, Detroit Red Wings, Nashville Predators, Philadelphia Flyers, Pittsburgh Penguins, Tampa Bay Lightning, Washington Capitals.
METROPOLITIAN
Boston Bruins, Buffalo Sabres, Les Canadiens du Montreal, Les Nordiques du Quebec, New Jersey Devils, New York Islanders, New York Rangers, Ottawa Senators, Toronto Maple Leafs.
WESTERN
CENTRAL
Chicago BlackHawks, Dallas Stars, Houston Hurricanes, Minnesota Wild, Saskatchewan Blizzard, St. Louis Blues, Tulsa or Oklahoma Coyotes, Winnipeg Jets.
PACIFIC
Anaheim Ducks, Calgary Flames, Colorado Avalanche, Edmonton Oilers, Los Angeles Kings, San Jose Sharks, (Las) Vegas Golden Knights, Tacoma or Seattle Bullfrogs, Vancouver Canucks.

If Scottsdale, AZ approves a new arena - maybe Phoenix Roadrunners in Pacific, placing Colorado back in Central. And Raleigh, NC is a perfect major league sports city, despite the Hurricanes aren't really selling out games anymore. How about the Raleigh Rhinos (based on the name of the failed NHL expansion Virginia Rhinos in 1999)? 

[KeithE4Phx]

I can't see MLB expanding beyond 32 teams. There just aren't enough quality pitchers as it is.

Mighty Manfred the Wondercommissioner has made it clear that he wants teams in Montreal and Portland OR, and soon.  But expansion beyond 30 teams is unlikely -- not enough talent for 32.  Two of the following three teams with ballpark issues would more likely be moved:  Oakland, Tampa Bay, Arizona.

What's wrong with the D-backs' stadium?

The Diamondbacks aren't going anywhere.   The Phoenix market is way too large and the stadium is in a premium location in downtown.  Not to mention the entire Cactus League is played in the Phoenix metro area.

Chase Field has maintenance issues that the team wants Maricopa County to pay for, while the County wants the team to pay.  They are at an impasse, and the Diamondbacks want out.

One problem is that the County government is going broke defending lawsuits that involve a "certain" now-former Sheriff.  Just because we finally threw him out on his ear doesn't stop the lawsuits against MCSO. 

Another is that Mighty Manfred has threatened to force the team to move, most likely to Montreal, if the ballpark isn't repaired, possibly as early as next season.  Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen; it'd be held up in court for years.  The Commissioner does not have that authority.

But one thing has been made clear by Ken Kendrick and the other owners:  They want out of downtown Phoenix, and for the same reasons that the Braves wanted out of Turner Field:  Money and... ummm... "demographics."  Read:  The area is not wealthy nor White enough.

The owners want to be in or near north Scottsdale, where the money and "proper" demographics are.  This is no secret whatsoever, and has been made clear since the day Jerry Colangelo and his partners sold the team to them.  They don't want to move out of the metro, but they do want out of Phoenix.  If they can work out a deal with the Salt River Indian Community, they'll get their new ballpark.  There is no political will here to build new stadiums with taxpayers' money.  We The People won't go along anymore, and the politicians have finally figured that out.

[Desert Man]

My version of the NBA (36 teams by 2027).
EASTERN
ATLANTIC
Boston Celtics, Brooklyn Nets, New Jersey (Newark) Swamp Dragons, New York Knicks, Philadelphia 76ers, Toronto Raptors.
CENTRAL
Chicago Bulls, Cleveland Cavaliers, Detroit Pistons, Indiana Pacers, Milwaukee Bucks, Pittsburgh Power.
SOUTHEAST
Atlanta Hawks, Charlotte Hornets, Miami Heat, Orlando Magic, Virginia (Beach) Squires, Washington Wizards. 
WESTERN
PACIFIC
Golden State Warriors, Las Vegas Vipers, Los Angeles Clippers, Los Angeles Lakers, Phoenix Suns, Sacramento Kings.
NORTHWEST
Denver Nuggets, Kansas City Bob-Cats, Minnesota Timberwolves, Portland Trail Blazers, Seattle (new) Supersonics, Utah Jazz.
SOUTHWEST
Dallas Mavericks, Houston Rockets, Memphis Grizzlies, New Orleans Pelicans, Oklahoma City Thunder (formerly Northwest division), San Antonio Spurs.
NYC metro area has 3 teams, while LA has 2 in its city and Chicagoland remains with only one.

[hotdogPi]

Brooklyn Nets, New Jersey (Newark) Swamp Dragons, New York Knicks

You don't need three teams here, especially when this area is growing more slowly than other parts of the country.

[Desert Man]

Brooklyn Nets, New Jersey (Newark) Swamp Dragons, New York Knicks

You don't need three teams here, especially when this area is growing more slowly than other parts of the country.

Yeah, the NYC metro area was larger in 1958 when they had the 3 Major League Baseball teams: the Yankees (AL) and formerly the Giants (NL) and Brooklyn Dodgers (NL). In the 1980s - the New Jersey Devils became the 3rd NHL ice hockey team with the New York Rangers and Islanders. The Swamp Dragons is just a fantasy team. The perfect NBA city would be Louisville, KY - In the 1990s and 2000s, they tried to recreate the Colonels of the 1960s-70s ABA. However, a slowly growing area - would be better to place the team in Covington, KY across the Ohio River from Cincinnati.

[DTComposer]

However, a slowly growing area - would be better to place the team in Covington, KY across the Ohio River from Cincinnati.

I've asked this a couple of times now about some of your statements - where are you getting your information on population from? Neither area is growing that fast, but the Louisville area is definitely growing faster than the Cincinnati area (about 3.5% compared to 2.5% since 2010).

[mrsman]

My version of the NBA (36 teams by 2027).
EASTERN
ATLANTIC
Boston Celtics, Brooklyn Nets, New Jersey (Newark) Swamp Dragons, New York Knicks, Philadelphia 76ers, Toronto Raptors.
CENTRAL
Chicago Bulls, Cleveland Cavaliers, Detroit Pistons, Indiana Pacers, Milwaukee Bucks, Pittsburgh Power.
SOUTHEAST
Atlanta Hawks, Charlotte Hornets, Miami Heat, Orlando Magic, Virginia (Beach) Squires, Washington Wizards. 
WESTERN
PACIFIC
Golden State Warriors, Las Vegas Vipers, Los Angeles Clippers, Los Angeles Lakers, Phoenix Suns, Sacramento Kings.
NORTHWEST
Denver Nuggets, Kansas City Bob-Cats, Minnesota Timberwolves, Portland Trail Blazers, Seattle (new) Supersonics, Utah Jazz.
SOUTHWEST
Dallas Mavericks, Houston Rockets, Memphis Grizzlies, New Orleans Pelicans, Oklahoma City Thunder (formerly Northwest division), San Antonio Spurs.
NYC metro area has 3 teams, while LA has 2 in its city and Chicagoland remains with only one.

IMO, LA should not have 2 teams.  SoCal should have 2 teams, but the current situation of having the Lakers and Clippers both playing in the same arena is ridiculous.  There should be some geographic diversity, in a similar manner as baseball and hockey (2 LA area teams, but one serving LA and one serving Orange County).  The Clippers belong in Orange County/Anaheim or possibly San Diego.

I have the same opinion on football, but I could see that it makes no sense to build new football stadiums, so we are stuck with 2 LA teams and 2 NY teams that will share the same stadium.  But there are ready to use arenas in Anaheim and San Diego for the Clippers.

[triplemultiplex]

Chase Field has maintenance issues that the team wants Maricopa County to pay for, while the County wants the team to pay.  They are at an impasse, and the Diamondbacks want out.

One problem is that the County government is going broke defending lawsuits that involve a "certain" now-former Sheriff.  Just because we finally threw him out on his ear doesn't stop the lawsuits against MCSO. 

Another is that Mighty Manfred has threatened to force the team to move, most likely to Montreal, if the ballpark isn't repaired, possibly as early as next season.  Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen; it'd be held up in court for years.  The Commissioner does not have that authority.

But one thing has been made clear by Ken Kendrick and the other owners:  They want out of downtown Phoenix, and for the same reasons that the Braves wanted out of Turner Field:  Money and... ummm... "demographics."  Read:  The area is not wealthy nor White enough.

The owners want to be in or near north Scottsdale, where the money and "proper" demographics are.  This is no secret whatsoever, and has been made clear since the day Jerry Colangelo and his partners sold the team to them.  They don't want to move out of the metro, but they do want out of Phoenix.  If they can work out a deal with the Salt River Indian Community, they'll get their new ballpark.  There is no political will here to build new stadiums with taxpayers' money.  We The People won't go along anymore, and the politicians have finally figured that out.

Ugh, that's maddening.  I didn't realize there was another "Atlanta" situation brewing in Phoenix.   

[Desert Man]

In CA, 7 major cities or sports markets have major league sports: LA metro area (Los Angeles with 4 million people, large enough to support 2 teams per sport) with Anaheim in Orange County, SF Bay Area (San Francisco, Oakland and San Jose), San Diego - 2nd largest city in state with nearby Tijuana, and Sacramento-the state capital. Oakland had all 5 sports: baseball (the A's), football (the Raiders twice), basketball (the Warriors-soon in San Francisco), hockey (the Golden Seals, 1967-76) and soccer (the Buccaneers in the 1970s NASL). San Jose is larger in population than San Francisco since the mid 1980s. 

3 major cities without major league sports are Long Beach, closer to Carson's StubHub Center for Major League Soccer than downtown LA, Bakersfield (the "Dubai of America" for having a small oil-rich community) and Fresno (over 1 million in its metro area) - the two in the economic backwater San Joaquin Valley, but they have college sports (Fresno State University Bulldogs football and basketball) and minor league sports. I made a thread on if the Riverside metropolitan area - extending to San Bernardino, Victorville and Palm Springs will ever be major league sports places...but in reality they won't.

[Stephane Dumas]

NHL:  They've talked about Quebec City, London ON, Portland OR, and yet another go of it in Atlanta (why bother?), but they also don't need to expand.  If anything, they could stand to drop a team, specifically the Arizona Coyotes, who are pathetic and have had arena issues ever since they moved to Phoenix from Winnipeg.   Hockey doesn't work on the west side, and there are no prospects for a new arena in the Mesa or downtown Phoenix areas since their proposed deal with ASU fell through.

Drop a team or let's go a step further by amalgating 2 teams. It happened once in 1978 with the merger of the NHL Cleveland Barons (formely the Oakland/California Seals) with the Minnesota North Stars (ironically later, the Stars got splitted with the creation of the San Jose Sharks).  Speaking of the NHL Barons they played where the late WHA Cleveland Crusaders played briefly, the ill-fated Richfield Coliseum. http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/the-sad-saga-of-the-nhl-cleveland-barons.2088005/#post-119405741

[jp the roadgeek]

My feeling is that most leagues should not go beyond 32 teams.  If the NFL did expand, it would have to go to 36 teams with 3 divisions of 6 in each conference.  The schedule would be an 18 game schedule: 10 division games (5H 5A), 2 conference games against teams that finished in the same place in their division last year (1H, 1A),and 6 interconference games against one division (3H, 3A).  The expansion teams would be in London, St. Louis, San Diego, and San Antonio.  The divisions (I had to keep Dallas in the NFC East to avoid Jerry Jones from self destructing):

AFC East: Baltimore, Buffalo, Jacksonville, Miami, New England, NY Jets 
AFC Central: Cincinnati, Cleveland, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Pittsburgh, Tennessee
AFC West: Denver, Houston, LA Chargers, Las Vegas, San Antonio, San Diego
NFC East: Carolina, Dallas, London, NY Giants, Philadelphia, Washington
NFC Central: Atlanta, Chicago, Detroit, Green Bay, Minnesota, Tampa Bay
NFC West: Arizona, LA Rams, New Orleans, San Francisco, Seattle, St. Louis

MLB: I discussed this in another thread, so here's the Readers' Digest version:  Montreal (AL; to create a Blue Jays rivalry) and Charlotte (NL; to create a Braves rivalry) are the two cities. 8 4-team divisions.   14 games against each divisional opponent (7H, 7A against each team), 6 games against other league opponents (3H, 3A against each team), 6 games against each opponent in the same geographical division in the other league (3H, 3A), and 6 games against one of the other divisions in the other league (3H, 3A).  42+72+24+24=162  The Divisions:

AL East: BOS, MON, NYY, TOR
AL North: CWS, CLE, DET, MIN
AL South: BAL, HOU, TB, TEX
AL West: KC, LAA, OAK, SEA
NL East:  NYM, PHI, PIT, WAS
NL North: CHC, COL, MIL, STL
NL South: ATL, CHA, CIN, MIA 
NL West: ARZ, LAD, SD, SF

I put the Reds in the South because they claim Charlotte as part of their broadcast territory.

NBA: 32 teams.  8 4-team divisions.  Seattle and Kansas City the expansion teams.  The divisions:

Atlantic: BOS, BKN, NYK, PHI
East: CHA, CLE, TOR, WAS
Southeast: ATL, MIA, MEM, ORL
Central: CHI, DET, IND, MIL
Gulf Coast: DAL, HOU, NO, SA
Midwest: DEN, KC, MIN, OKC,
Northwest: PHX, POR, SEA, UTA
Pacific: GS, LAC, LAL, SAC

NHL: Panthers to Quebec City, Coyotes to Seattle, Whalercanes to KC, Houston gets expansion franchise.  8 4 team divisions, reviving the old divisional names with some new names

Adams: MON, OTT, QUE, TOR
Orr: BOS, NYI, NJ, NYR
Patrick: PHI, PIT, TB, WAS
Howe: BUF, CHI, CLB, DET
Norris: MIN, NAS, STL, WPG
Hull: COL, DAL, HOU, KC
Smythe: ANA, LA, SJ, VGK
Gretzky: CAL, EDM, SEA, VAN

[1995hoo]

The talk of an NHL expansion team in Seattle has seriously picked up with their agreement to renovate Key Arena. The league more or less told the city to apply for a franchise.

[jp the roadgeek]

The talk of an NHL expansion team in Seattle has seriously picked up with their agreement to renovate Key Arena. The league more or less told the city to apply for a franchise.

I assume if Seattle gets a franchise, they'll go in the Pacific and Arizona will shift to the Central barring any other teams moving.

[1995hoo]

The talk of an NHL expansion team in Seattle has seriously picked up with their agreement to renovate Key Arena. The league more or less told the city to apply for a franchise.

I assume if Seattle gets a franchise, they'll go in the Pacific and Arizona will shift to the Central barring any other teams moving.

That's what I'd assume as well. Can't split up the two Alberta teams. They tried that in the 1990s with the two Pennsylvania teams and it was quite unpopular.

If anything, it makes the idea of a Coyotes move to Houston that much more palatable and logical.

[dvferyance]

My version of the NBA (36 teams by 2027).
EASTERN
ATLANTIC
Boston Celtics, Brooklyn Nets, New Jersey (Newark) Swamp Dragons, New York Knicks, Philadelphia 76ers, Toronto Raptors.
CENTRAL
Chicago Bulls, Cleveland Cavaliers, Detroit Pistons, Indiana Pacers, Milwaukee Bucks, Pittsburgh Power.
SOUTHEAST
Atlanta Hawks, Charlotte Hornets, Miami Heat, Orlando Magic, Virginia (Beach) Squires, Washington Wizards. 
WESTERN
PACIFIC
Golden State Warriors, Las Vegas Vipers, Los Angeles Clippers, Los Angeles Lakers, Phoenix Suns, Sacramento Kings.
NORTHWEST
Denver Nuggets, Kansas City Bob-Cats, Minnesota Timberwolves, Portland Trail Blazers, Seattle (new) Supersonics, Utah Jazz.
SOUTHWEST
Dallas Mavericks, Houston Rockets, Memphis Grizzlies, New Orleans Pelicans, Oklahoma City Thunder (formerly Northwest division), San Antonio Spurs.
NYC metro area has 3 teams, while LA has 2 in its city and Chicagoland remains with only one.

IMO, LA should not have 2 teams.  SoCal should have 2 teams, but the current situation of having the Lakers and Clippers both playing in the same arena is ridiculous.  There should be some geographic diversity, in a similar manner as baseball and hockey (2 LA area teams, but one serving LA and one serving Orange County).  The Clippers belong in Orange County/Anaheim or possibly San Diego.

I have the same opinion on football, but I could see that it makes no sense to build new football stadiums, so we are stuck with 2 LA teams and 2 NY teams that will share the same stadium.  But there are ready to use arenas in Anaheim and San Diego for the Clippers.

I think California in general should only have 3. You don't need a team in Sacramento if the bay area already has one. I agree NYC area should not have 3 teams no city should have 3 teams in one sport. I don;t think Pittsburgh could support a team. Too small of a market to support both the NHL and the NBA. Cincinnati or Louisville would be better choices. I don't think the Bobcats name should be reused so much confusion between New Orleans and Charlotte. I would call the KC team the Knights or move the Kings back there. Building them a new arena is Sacramento was a mistake when it hits the dust the Kings will be gone.

[hotdogPi]

My version of the NBA (36 teams by 2027).
EASTERN
ATLANTIC
Boston Celtics, Brooklyn Nets, New Jersey (Newark) Swamp Dragons, New York Knicks, Philadelphia 76ers, Toronto Raptors.
CENTRAL
Chicago Bulls, Cleveland Cavaliers, Detroit Pistons, Indiana Pacers, Milwaukee Bucks, Pittsburgh Power.
SOUTHEAST
Atlanta Hawks, Charlotte Hornets, Miami Heat, Orlando Magic, Virginia (Beach) Squires, Washington Wizards. 
WESTERN
PACIFIC
Golden State Warriors, Las Vegas Vipers, Los Angeles Clippers, Los Angeles Lakers, Phoenix Suns, Sacramento Kings.
NORTHWEST
Denver Nuggets, Kansas City Bob-Cats, Minnesota Timberwolves, Portland Trail Blazers, Seattle (new) Supersonics, Utah Jazz.
SOUTHWEST
Dallas Mavericks, Houston Rockets, Memphis Grizzlies, New Orleans Pelicans, Oklahoma City Thunder (formerly Northwest division), San Antonio Spurs.
NYC metro area has 3 teams, while LA has 2 in its city and Chicagoland remains with only one.

IMO, LA should not have 2 teams.  SoCal should have 2 teams, but the current situation of having the Lakers and Clippers both playing in the same arena is ridiculous.  There should be some geographic diversity, in a similar manner as baseball and hockey (2 LA area teams, but one serving LA and one serving Orange County).  The Clippers belong in Orange County/Anaheim or possibly San Diego.

I have the same opinion on football, but I could see that it makes no sense to build new football stadiums, so we are stuck with 2 LA teams and 2 NY teams that will share the same stadium.  But there are ready to use arenas in Anaheim and San Diego for the Clippers.

I think California in general should only have 3. You don't need a team in Sacramento if the bay area already has one. I agree NYC area should not have 3 teams no city should have 3 teams in one sport. I don;t think Pittsburgh could support a team. Too small of a market to support both the NHL and the NBA. Cincinnati or Louisville would be better choices. I don't think the Bobcats name should be reused so much confusion between New Orleans and Charlotte. I would call the KC team the Knights or move the Kings back there. Building them a new arena is Sacramento was a mistake when it hits the dust the Kings will be gone.

California has ⅛ of the United States population, so with 36 teams in total, 3 in California is too few.

[jp the roadgeek]

I really don't think the Bay Area needs two teams in each sport. Granted, one instance will be going away soon when the Raiders move to Vega$, but do we really need two baseball teams in the Bay Area?  I understand the LA area because of its size, and that LA and OC can almost be separate markets.  The Clippers should move to the Honda Center, but why move back to San Diego when there's no viable arena and you already failed there?  In baseball, Oakland is too close to SF and can't get a new ballpark built anywhere, plus there's probably 5 Giants fans for every A's fan.  And I agree Sacramento is essentially an extension of the Bay Area market; it's what Long Island or North Jersey is to NYC. 

[DTComposer]

but do we really need two baseball teams in the Bay Area?

Why not? Going back the last five seasons, attendance for the Giants and A's combined is comparable to the Cubs and White Sox (in fact, the Bay Area outdrew Chicago in 2013, 2014 and 2015) - and Chicago is a significantly larger market (and the combined on-field performance for the teams is about the same). And the attendance as a ratio of market size compares more than favorably to both L.A. and New York - markets that are two to three times larger. Based on your logic and the raw numbers there should then be no two-team markets, correct?

In baseball, Oakland is too close to SF

Distance from Yankee Stadium to Citi Field: 9.9 miles
From Guaranteed Rate Field to Wrigley Field: 12 miles
From Oakland Coliseum to AT&T Park: 16 miles
Again, based on your logic, those markets should lose a team as well, right?

and can’t get a new ballpark built anywhere

They had the land, the money, the sponsor, the government support, and the motivation to move to San Jose. The Giants and MLB blocked it because of the wonky market-splitting deal that was made in the '90s.

While it certainly has been a slog since then, they now have the site and financing for a stadium near Lake Merritt. Once they cut through the red tape they hope to open by 2023.

And I agree Sacramento is essentially an extension of the Bay Area market; it’s what Long Island or North Jersey is to NYC. 

Not even close. Sacramento is 80 miles from Oakland, nearly half of which is rural farmland or foothills, and a good portion of the rest is free-standing exurbs or satellite cities. Sacramento is its own television market.

Your analogy (NYC to Long Island or North Jersey) is comparable to L.A. to Orange County or the Inland Empire, but it is in no way comparable to the Bay Area/Sacramento.

I think California in general should only have 3.

You have been repeatedly shown in multiple threads that your argument fails in the face of population, market size, and geography. I'll present this again: if the four major markets of California were placed somewhere else in the country, they have a comparable number of teams of those markets, but many times the population.

Consider: the roughly straight-line distance that includes Sacramento, the Bay Area, Los Angeles and San Diego is about 500 miles and currently has 16 teams (soon to be 15).
A similar corridor including Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit and Chicago is about 450 miles, and includes 15 teams. Yet, Los Angeles is more than twice the size of Chicagoland, the Bay Area is 40% larger than Metro Detroit, and Cleveland/San Diego and Pittsburgh/Sacramento are comparable (and San Diego and Sacramento are growing, while Cleveland and Pittsburgh are stagnant).
So I assume you support losing a team or two from that region, correct? Otherwise your argument fails in the face of logic and statistics.

[dvferyance]

Why have states then if so much goes to California? The difference is PA,OH,MI and IL are all separate states while CA is just one. I think the number of teams should be distributed evenly throughout the states instead of having oversaturation in a couple. CA is just one of 50 states. Of course I would expect that only a Californian would disagree that California is just oversports. I also think the NYC area should not have 3 NHL teams. So it's not that I am just biased against CA. You can say all you want Sacramento is not part of the bay area becasue it;s like 70 miles away. But then you would also have to make the case San Bernidinio is not part of the LA metro area becasue it's also like 70 miles from downtown LA. And so what if it a separate TV market. Toledo OH has a separate TV market but it's way too close to Detroit to ever have major league sports.

[DTComposer]

Why have states then if so much goes to California? The difference is PA,OH,MI and IL are all separate states while CA is just one.

But that's exactly the point. You're so concerned about somewhat arbitrary state boundaries that you're losing sight of the actual reasons sports teams are placed where they are - which has nothing to do with state sizes or boundaries and everything to do with media market and/or metro area size.

If PA/OH/MI/IL/etc were one single state and CA was two or three or four separate states, it wouldn't change a single thing about where teams should or shouldn't be placed.

I think the number of teams should be distributed evenly throughout the states instead of having oversaturation in a couple.

Then you'd need to have a lot more teams in, say, the upper Great Plains or Rocky Mountains states. Do you think that Sioux Falls, or Billings, or Cheyenne can support a major league franchise?

You can say all you want Sacramento is not part of the bay area becasue it;s like 70 miles away. But then you would also have to make the case San Bernidinio is not part of the LA metro area becasue it's also like 70 miles from downtown LA.

No I don't have to make that case, because a) there's continuous urban development between L.A. and San Bernardino, b) commuting patterns tie those two regions together (which is why they're in the same CSA), and c) L.A. and San Bernardino are in the same media market. None of those are true between Sacramento and the Bay Area. It's not just about mileage. And it's not me saying that, it's Nielsen, and the United States OMB and Census Bureau, using their mountains of actual data and statistics.

And so what if it a separate TV market. Toledo OH has a separate TV market but it's way too close to Detroit to ever have major league sports.

Again, it's not just about distance.
Toledo is the #78 Nielsen market and the #75 CSA (2016 est. population 645,857). It's just too small to support a major league team, regardless of how close or far it is from Detroit.
Sacramento is the #20 Nielsen market and the #22 CSA (2016 est. population 2,567,451). That makes more than big enough to support major league sports.

Of course I would expect that only a Californian would disagree that California is just oversports.

California has ⅛ of the United States population, so with 36 teams in total, 3 in California is too few.

Not from California.

This is not about being pro or anti-California or any state. This is simply about numbers, and economics.

[Alps]

Why have states then if so much goes to California? The difference is PA,OH,MI and IL are all separate states while CA is just one. I think the number of teams should be distributed evenly throughout the states instead of having oversaturation in a couple. CA is just one of 50 states. Of course I would expect that only a Californian would disagree that California is just oversports. I also think the NYC area should not have 3 NHL teams. So it's not that I am just biased against CA. You can say all you want Sacramento is not part of the bay area becasue it;s like 70 miles away. But then you would also have to make the case San Bernidinio is not part of the LA metro area becasue it's also like 70 miles from downtown LA. And so what if it a separate TV market. Toledo OH has a separate TV market but it's way too close to Detroit to ever have major league sports.

Let the free market work. Teams will be located wherever they are financially successful. They will move when they are not.

[hotdogPi]

Would a market for Fresno and Visalia work? It would probably expand to Bakersfield, Merced, Salinas, and/or Santa Maria.

[jeffandnicole]

Why have states then if so much goes to California? The difference is PA,OH,MI and IL are all separate states while CA is just one. I think the number of teams should be distributed evenly throughout the states instead of having oversaturation in a couple. CA is just one of 50 states. Of course I would expect that only a Californian would disagree that California is just oversports. I also think the NYC area should not have 3 NHL teams. So it's not that I am just biased against CA. You can say all you want Sacramento is not part of the bay area becasue it;s like 70 miles away. But then you would also have to make the case San Bernidinio is not part of the LA metro area becasue it's also like 70 miles from downtown LA. And so what if it a separate TV market. Toledo OH has a separate TV market but it's way too close to Detroit to ever have major league sports.

You are in desperate need of a class involving supply-and-demand.

By this notion, we should eliminate all the airports serving NYC and California, and put those airports and all their flights in Montana and North Dakota.