710 - Long Beach Freeway Gap

[Max Rockatansky]

so i guess the burning question is now ... what will become the new control city on the 710N to replace Pasadena??

Alhambra?
Los Angeles?
"THRU TRAFFIC"????

~cat

Leave it so long as southern stub exists, Fremont Avenue is right there as access to Pasadena.

[kkt]

Checked out the unsigned portion of CA 710/I-710 south of the I-210/CA 134 interchange this week:

https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjzCKVc

What's amazing about this is that they have exit numbers as if the entire freeway would've been completed.

CalTrans likes to lay out mile numbers and postmile numbers as if all proposed roads will eventually be completed, however unlikely that is.

For example, I-80's first exit in San Francisco, Seventh Street, is exit 1, as you'd expect.  But its postmile number is 3.91.  That reflects I-80s formerly planned west end at CA Highway 1, 19th Avenue.

[TheStranger]

Checked out the unsigned portion of CA 710/I-710 south of the I-210/CA 134 interchange this week:

https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjzCKVc

What's amazing about this is that they have exit numbers as if the entire freeway would've been completed.

CalTrans likes to lay out mile numbers and postmile numbers as if all proposed roads will eventually be completed, however unlikely that is.

For example, I-80's first exit in San Francisco, Seventh Street, is exit 1, as you'd expect.  But its postmile number is 3.91.  That reflects I-80s formerly planned west end at CA Highway 1, 19th Avenue.

A few miles south, I-380 still uses exit numbers based on a potential terminus of Route 1 at Pacifica, even though the section west of I-280 has been long shelved. 

380 at Route 82 (El Camino Real) is Exit 5, at US 101 is Exit 6A/6B, and at South Airport Boulevard/North Access Road is exit 7.

[Henry]

Outside the Bay Area's incomplete freeway system, this is Caltrans' biggest failure. I've always been bothered by the gap in Pasadena, although it's clear to see why it exists. Simply too expensive to plow through, and there's no good way around it either, so I'm not surprised that the connecting freeway is getting cancelled, once and for all.

[Plutonic Panda]

Outside the Bay Area's incomplete freeway system, this is Caltrans' biggest failure. I've always been bothered by the gap in Pasadena, although it's clear to see why it exists. Simply too expensive to plow through, and there's no good way around it either, so I'm not surprised that the connecting freeway is getting cancelled, once and for all.

They could have found the money. They have hundreds of millions if not billions allocated for to close the gap. There's no logical reason it shouldn't have been built. The people in south Pasadena and Pasadena who opposed this are idiots. Plain and simple. This is nothing more than those people not wanting to wake up to the reality that a mega project like that is needed, IMO. Yet Australia, Japan, China, Spain, the Netherlands, New Zealand, are all capable of building these kinds of projects.

[mgk920]

Outside the Bay Area's incomplete freeway system, this is Caltrans' biggest failure. I've always been bothered by the gap in Pasadena, although it's clear to see why it exists. Simply too expensive to plow through, and there's no good way around it either, so I'm not surprised that the connecting freeway is getting cancelled, once and for all.

They could have found the money. They have hundreds of millions if not billions allocated for to close the gap. There's no logical reason it shouldn't have been built. The people in south Pasadena and Pasadena who opposed this are idiots. Plain and simple. This is nothing more than those people not wanting to wake up to the reality that a mega project like that is needed, IMO. Yet Australia, Japan, China, Spain, the Netherlands, New Zealand, are all capable of building these kinds of projects.

This is one of those situations where it should just be allowed to fester in anonymous obscurity until the present gentry is completely gone and forgotten and then continue waiting until future generations are so completely fed up with life on the surface streets that they start irresistibly calling for it to be resurrected and built.

Maybe the same thing will happen WRT a convenient connection between I-105 to the west and I-5 to the southeast.

Mike

[SeriesE]

Outside the Bay Area's incomplete freeway system, this is Caltrans' biggest failure. I've always been bothered by the gap in Pasadena, although it's clear to see why it exists. Simply too expensive to plow through, and there's no good way around it either, so I'm not surprised that the connecting freeway is getting cancelled, once and for all.

oh yes. The urbanists in the Bay area will say no to freeways while complaining about the traffic on I-880 in the same breath. No sh*t, there's no alternative to it between Fremont and Hayward because CA-238 freeway was canceled. The people that would take BART are already takin BART.

[the91fwy]

Outside the Bay Area's incomplete freeway system, this is Caltrans' biggest failure. I've always been bothered by the gap in Pasadena, although it's clear to see why it exists. Simply too expensive to plow through, and there's no good way around it either, so I'm not surprised that the connecting freeway is getting cancelled, once and for all.

They could have found the money. They have hundreds of millions if not billions allocated for to close the gap. There's no logical reason it shouldn't have been built. The people in south Pasadena and Pasadena who opposed this are idiots. Plain and simple. This is nothing more than those people not wanting to wake up to the reality that a mega project like that is needed, IMO. Yet Australia, Japan, China, Spain, the Netherlands, New Zealand, are all capable of building these kinds of projects.

it's just a story of how money talks.  most of the people in the way of the 710 had money to fight it.

compare it with the 110 (century fwy) and nobody in it's corridor had the money to fight it.

both sets of people had an equal hatred towards their respective freeways.

~cat

[kkt]

Outside the Bay Area's incomplete freeway system, this is Caltrans' biggest failure. I've always been bothered by the gap in Pasadena, although it's clear to see why it exists. Simply too expensive to plow through, and there's no good way around it either, so I'm not surprised that the connecting freeway is getting cancelled, once and for all.

They could have found the money. They have hundreds of millions if not billions allocated for to close the gap. There's no logical reason it shouldn't have been built. The people in south Pasadena and Pasadena who opposed this are idiots. Plain and simple. This is nothing more than those people not wanting to wake up to the reality that a mega project like that is needed, IMO. Yet Australia, Japan, China, Spain, the Netherlands, New Zealand, are all capable of building these kinds of projects.

it's just a story of how money talks.  most of the people in the way of the 710 had money to fight it.

compare it with the 110 (century fwy) and nobody in it's corridor had the money to fight it.

both sets of people had an equal hatred towards their respective freeways.

~cat

so the moral is, if you are a DOT, is always route the freeway through a neighborhood of poor people.

[Occidental Tourist]

Checked out the unsigned portion of CA 710/I-710 south of the I-210/CA 134 interchange this week:

https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjzCKVc

What's amazing about this is that they have exit numbers as if the entire freeway would've been completed.

CalTrans likes to lay out mile numbers and postmile numbers as if all proposed roads will eventually be completed, however unlikely that is.

For example, I-80's first exit in San Francisco, Seventh Street, is exit 1, as you'd expect.  But its postmile number is 3.91.  That reflects I-80s formerly planned west end at CA Highway 1, 19th Avenue.

Those are exit numbers based on the 210, not the unsigned 710. 

If they were based on the 710, they would be approximately Exits 28 or 29.

[Plutonic Panda]

Outside the Bay Area's incomplete freeway system, this is Caltrans' biggest failure. I've always been bothered by the gap in Pasadena, although it's clear to see why it exists. Simply too expensive to plow through, and there's no good way around it either, so I'm not surprised that the connecting freeway is getting cancelled, once and for all.

They could have found the money. They have hundreds of millions if not billions allocated for to close the gap. There's no logical reason it shouldn't have been built. The people in south Pasadena and Pasadena who opposed this are idiots. Plain and simple. This is nothing more than those people not wanting to wake up to the reality that a mega project like that is needed, IMO. Yet Australia, Japan, China, Spain, the Netherlands, New Zealand, are all capable of building these kinds of projects.

This is one of those situations where it should just be allowed to fester in anonymous obscurity until the present gentry is completely gone and forgotten and then continue waiting until future generations are so completely fed up with life on the surface streets that they start irresistibly calling for it to be resurrected and built.

Maybe the same thing will happen WRT a convenient connection between I-105 to the west and I-5 to the southeast.

Mike

I guess at some point it still can theoretically still be built even without the stubs it'll just be much harder and costly.

[ClassicHasClass]

I vote for THRU TRAFFIC. If there's any destination everyone in greater LA can agree on, it's that we're going to MOAR TRAFFIC.

Plus, why should the 605 have all the fun?

[RZF]

Checked out the unsigned portion of CA 710/I-710 south of the I-210/CA 134 interchange this week:

https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjzCKVc

What's amazing about this is that they have exit numbers as if the entire freeway would've been completed.

CalTrans likes to lay out mile numbers and postmile numbers as if all proposed roads will eventually be completed, however unlikely that is.

For example, I-80's first exit in San Francisco, Seventh Street, is exit 1, as you'd expect.  But its postmile number is 3.91.  That reflects I-80s formerly planned west end at CA Highway 1, 19th Avenue.

Shouldn't that Seventh St exit then be exit 3? I'm pretty certain exit numbers were supposed to reflect postmiles.

[TheStranger]

Checked out the unsigned portion of CA 710/I-710 south of the I-210/CA 134 interchange this week:

https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjzCKVc

What's amazing about this is that they have exit numbers as if the entire freeway would've been completed.

CalTrans likes to lay out mile numbers and postmile numbers as if all proposed roads will eventually be completed, however unlikely that is.

For example, I-80's first exit in San Francisco, Seventh Street, is exit 1, as you'd expect.  But its postmile number is 3.91.  That reflects I-80s formerly planned west end at CA Highway 1, 19th Avenue.

Shouldn't that Seventh St exit then be exit 3? I'm pretty certain exit numbers were supposed to reflect postmiles.

I-80 has been legislatively defined to end at US 101 (Bayshore and Central Freeways) since 1965 or so, after the Western Freeway (from Golden Gate Park to the former Fell Street interchange complex off the Central Freeway) was vociferously opposed during the San Francisco freeway revolts. 

Prior to the 1989 earthquake, the section of I-80 coming off the Bay Bridge westbound was signed as "I-80 / US 101" (possible holdover from when 80 was defined along the east-west part of the Central Freeway and then to the canceled Western) but is now primarily signed as "US 101 SOUTH - San Jose", another of those CalTrans "implied TO" situations.


This is different from the other scenarios in which exit number and postmile may conflict:

- I mentioned I-380 above, with its exit number range from 5 to 7.  The route definition still includes the likely-to-never-be-built portion from Pacifica at Route 1 to I-280.  (I still think the route should be extended as a short 2-lane road to Skyline Boulevard/Route 35, but that is probably never happening).

- Route 14 is legislatively defined to start at Route 1 near Malibu (passing through Reseda) but that extension southwest of Sylmar has been dead for at least 5 decades; the exit numbers for what has been built explicitly begin at I-5/Golden State Freeway.

[Plutonic Panda]

Now this stupid shit: https://la.streetsblog.org/2022/05/04/pasadena-and-caltrans-reach-agreement-to-relinquish-710-freeway-stub-to-city/?fbclid=IwAR1US669xGxaLjwqejoaIaV13l5bsLPKY9BVt4CtqdV6KUPa6lUIBf-O3IU

[Max Rockatansky]

Now this stupid shit: https://la.streetsblog.org/2022/05/04/pasadena-and-caltrans-reach-agreement-to-relinquish-710-freeway-stub-to-city/?fbclid=IwAR1US669xGxaLjwqejoaIaV13l5bsLPKY9BVt4CtqdV6KUPa6lUIBf-O3IU

I mean, this wasn't known that it was going to happen.  Why torment yourself by reading an urbanist page?

[Plutonic Panda]

Now this stupid shit: https://la.streetsblog.org/2022/05/04/pasadena-and-caltrans-reach-agreement-to-relinquish-710-freeway-stub-to-city/?fbclid=IwAR1US669xGxaLjwqejoaIaV13l5bsLPKY9BVt4CtqdV6KUPa6lUIBf-O3IU

I mean, this wasn't known that it was going to happen.  Why torment yourself by reading an urbanist page?

Oh I didn't read it. I refuse to read Streetsblog given the writer, Joe Linton, is a joker who only wants a one sided discussion and banned me from commenting. But I supposed it was worth posting here.

Surprisingly enough I came across it from Urbanize LA which I follow for development in LA and there's several people voicing their displeasure with this.

[kkt]

Checked out the unsigned portion of CA 710/I-710 south of the I-210/CA 134 interchange this week:

https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjzCKVc

What's amazing about this is that they have exit numbers as if the entire freeway would've been completed.

CalTrans likes to lay out mile numbers and postmile numbers as if all proposed roads will eventually be completed, however unlikely that is.

For example, I-80's first exit in San Francisco, Seventh Street, is exit 1, as you'd expect.  But its postmile number is 3.91.  That reflects I-80s formerly planned west end at CA Highway 1, 19th Avenue.

Shouldn't that Seventh St exit then be exit 3? I'm pretty certain exit numbers were supposed to reflect postmiles.

The exit numbers were not applied in California until way after I-80 was truncated at US 101.  Caltrans kept the postmile numbers for continuity with records of work done previously.

The exit numbers reflect the total mileage within the state.  The postmile numbers reset to 0 at each county line.

[Max Rockatansky]

Put something together for the Pasadena Stub:

https://www.gribblenation.org/2022/07/hidden-california-state-route-710-and.html?m=1

[Max Rockatansky]

Also an article from the Pasadena Star regarding the CTC relinquishing the Pasadena Stub on 6/29:

https://www.pasadenastarnews.com/2022/06/29/historic-vote-returns-710-stub-to-pasadena/

[The Ghostbuster]

With the relinquishment of CA 710, does that mean that come 2024, the stub will be demolished and redeveloped? I was unable to get through all of the Pasadena Star-News story before the paywall showed up.

[Max Rockatansky]

With the relinquishment of CA 710, does that mean that come 2024, the stub will be demolished and redeveloped? I was unable to get through all of the Pasadena Star-News story before the paywall showed up.

Unclear, they say 2026-2030 in the article.

[DTComposer]

As currently constructed, the 710 freeway's end at Valley Boulevard in Alhambra forces traffic onto local streets, where dozens of commuters regularly travel 4.5-miles to the 210 Freeway entrance.

As someone who had to take that detour many times over a 15-year period, I can tell you it's a whole heck of a lot more than "dozens."

[ARMOURERERIC]

If anyone caught the recent season 3 of Barry on HBO Max, there was a nice chase scene on the stub.