Started this thread to keep track of the updates going on within the agency and changes to their budget, rules, practices, etc...
Nice first update regarding the deteriorating budget situation in Oklahoma. Looking like OkDOT's budget might be slashed to under $350m a year. The I-235/I-44 interchange project is specifically mentioned and it looks like that project which is already taking a decade to complete(a simple 3 stack!!!) could be dragged out even more. Very irritating.
http://m.newsok.com/article/5547324
OkDOT already acts like their annual budget is around twelve dollars (counting a BOGO McDonald's coupon in the total), so it will be interesting to see them come up with new ways to disappoint us.
It is very embarrassing and angering that this is happening. A few years ago, it really felt like OkDOT was starting to make good progress on several things. Unfortunately, it seems like all of that is going going to be reversed.
Would certainly be "interesting" if they had to stop work on the I-235 widening considering they just started to tear down the NE 50th Street overpass in the last week or so...
Drive north on I-35 out of OKC and tell me the budget is not $12. The first time, we thought we had a flat. It hasn't gotten any better.
Quote from: SEMIweather on May 02, 2017, 10:32:32 PM
Would certainly be "interesting" if they had to stop work on the I-235 widening considering they just started to tear down the NE 50th Street overpass in the last week or so...
I would imagine the current phase of the project is paid for, but later phases of the interchange (i.e. the flyovers) might be delayed.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 03, 2017, 02:42:38 AM
Quote from: SEMIweather on May 02, 2017, 10:32:32 PM
Would certainly be "interesting" if they had to stop work on the I-235 widening considering they just started to tear down the NE 50th Street overpass in the last week or so...
I would imagine the current phase of the project is paid for, but later phases of the interchange (i.e. the flyovers) might be delayed.
lol and here I am hoping they would surprise us with an announcement that they will bring back the Santa Fe bridge proposal.
Actually Scott, check this video out. Not good.
http://newsok.com/multimedia/video/5419404189001#gsc.tab=0
That's asinine. We're going to spend more money in the long run to "save" money in the short run.
Very good video, but one that should make anyone with a functional brain pretty angry.
Regarding the I-235/I-44 interchange project shown in the video, I don't know why the flyovers are put off until the very end. This project has been funded and let in small bits and pieces over a 10 year period already. Construction cost inflation for road building has been really serious. By the time they ever get around to building the two large flyover ramps they're going to cost a hell of a lot more money to build than back in the mid 2000's.
If Gov. Fallin issued an executive order requiring a Ten Commandments monument on every road project, you can bet your bippy the derpwoods in the Legislature would fund the roads right away. :banghead:
The whole voting on a Tuesday work-day thing is, IMHO, a way to discourage lower income and/or non-white people from voting. Most other developed nations set their voting day on the weekend when far more people are off work. Some make the voting day a national holiday. Combine the US voting day with other immoral practices, like Gerrymandering districts and operating as few polling places as possible in any lower income neighborhood. Add in how campaigns are financed. It's part of what makes the United States' form of government an insidious form of oligarchy.
I'm a white guy but it's easy even for me to see just how racist and class warfare-mongering our society is these days.
I would imagine that moving it to the weekend would result in far fewer lower-income people being able to vote. Those people are most likely to be in sectors like retail and other customer service jobs that don't follow a 9-to-5 schedule. (I don't have any numbers to back this up, however.)
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 07, 2017, 01:39:14 AM
I would imagine that moving it to the weekend would result in far fewer lower-income people being able to vote. Those people are most likely to be in sectors like retail and other customer service jobs that don't follow a 9-to-5 schedule. (I don't have any numbers to back this up, however.)
I would actually agree with this. Most people working on retail are very likely to be working on the weekends, given that that is when more people are shopping.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 01, 2017, 05:05:35 AM
OkDOT already acts like their annual budget is around twelve dollars (counting a BOGO McDonald's coupon in the total), so it will be interesting to see them come up with new ways to disappoint us.
OkDOT is the result of IDOT and MDOT getting drunk and having a baby, whilst drunk.
Pretty sure a little crack was smoked at some point as well.
I've heard from a source inside ODOT that no further work will be done on the 50th St bridge demolition due to lack of funds. Also, there is a good chance that the only future investment will be in sod for the bare embankments unless the funding crisis is averted.
They've also suspended work at the I-35/I-240 interchange.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 09, 2017, 04:10:30 PM
Pretty sure a little crack was smoked at some point as well.
No, this is Oklahoma, they prefer Oxy and meth.
This certainly doesn't seem promising... http://newsok.com/article/5549038
Quote from: SEMIweather on May 13, 2017, 01:18:26 PM
This certainly doesn't seem promising... http://newsok.com/article/5549038
Don't see it happening. This is to scare legislators into thinking there will be chaos at OU games this fall.
Maybe I should run for governor. Come hell or high water, I'd find the money.
Lot of projects have been cut from the 8yr plan and almost half have been delayed. I-40/Douglas Blvd. project has been delayed. Not sure how long but the article reported at least a year.
http://kfor.com/2017/10/02/odot-removes-more-than-204-million-in-road-projects-from-8-year-plan-due-to-budget-cuts/
Just found out it will delayed until 2020-2025. Frustrating! That also includes the widening of I-40 from Douglas to I-240.
Here is report from OkDOT: https://www.ok.gov/triton/modules/newsroom/newsroom_article.php?id=277&article_id=36480
this probably isn't relevant but i didn't now where else to put this...
I called ODOT to see if they would be willing to give me a traffic drum, and... they don't have any? either that, or they didn't know where they were... i called traffic engineering, got transferred to administration, got transferred to a different person in traffic engineering, got transferred to maintenance, who gave me the OKC maintenance annex, who told me to call a contractor. Is this normal ODOT behavior? I feel like I just called the white house and tried to talk to Donald Trump... All i want is a TRAFFIC DRUM!
Quote from: MCRoads on November 01, 2017, 10:11:39 AM
this probably isn't relevant but i didn't now where else to put this...
I called ODOT to see if they would be willing to give me a traffic drum, and... they don't have any? either that, or they didn't know where they were... i called traffic engineering, got transferred to administration, got transferred to a different person in traffic engineering, got transferred to maintenance, who gave me the OKC maintenance annex, who told me to call a contractor. Is this normal ODOT behavior? I feel like I just called the white house and tried to talk to Donald Trump... All i want is a TRAFFIC DRUM!
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xtraffic+drum.TRS0&_nkw=traffic+drum&_sacat=0
I expected this to be a slower year than usual due to budget cuts, but damn they have only had like one or two projects announced in the hearings and meeting page this year. Is this the slowest year OkDOT has ever had in terms of announcing new projects? Sure looks like it!
The new 8yr plan will likely adopted on the 11 at the commission meeting. Will be interested to see if anything new is added or if in fact some things will be pushed back and removed.
http://journalrecord.com/2019/01/02/odot-not-seeking-funding-increase-from-lawmakers/
Apparently OkDOT won't be asking for any sort of budget increase this legislative season. I don't know entirely how I feel about that. OkDOT needs more than double its current budget to really make any large scale impact in Oklahoma.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on January 03, 2019, 06:15:06 PM
http://journalrecord.com/2019/01/02/odot-not-seeking-funding-increase-from-lawmakers/
Apparently OkDOT won't be asking for any sort of budget increase this legislative season. I don't know entirely how I feel about that. OkDOT needs more than double its current budget to really make any large scale impact in Oklahoma.
I believe Patterson is focusing his efforts on ensuring the Legislature doesn't divert any more transportation dollars to General Revenue where it can be appropriated to other agencies. If you read the recent ODOT press releases, that has been their #1 point of emphasis.
It was a miracle they got their funding restored to minimal levels where they were able to bring back some projects to the 8 yr plan they had to remove a couple years ago.
Tim Gatz will be the new transportation secretary. Mr. Patterson steps down on April 1st.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/stitt-taps-gatz-as-transportation-secretary/article_a6e288fb-2c63-59cb-b8ae-399bcef08282.amp.html
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on January 27, 2019, 02:43:47 PM
Tim Gatz will be the new transportation secretary. Mr. Patterson steps down on April 1st.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/stitt-taps-gatz-as-transportation-secretary/article_a6e288fb-2c63-59cb-b8ae-399bcef08282.amp.html
That was expected every since they brought him back from OTA a few years ago. Having worked with him 20+ years ago, I believe he will be a positive force going forward.
^^^ glad to know that.
Patterson will remain head of ODOT, which is a separate position, for whatever reason.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 02, 2019, 03:10:38 PM
Patterson will remain head of ODOT, which is a separate position, for whatever reason.
I didn't check, bu I expect so he can server until he hits State retirement eligibility. It's public record but I'm too lazy to look it up.
I am not really sure what the distinction between transportation secretary and head of ODOT really is. Some people have held both positions at once, with two (Neal McCaleb and Gary Ridley) adding head of OTA to complete the trifecta. My suspicion, based on the fact that Fallin (R) retained Ridley from Henry (D), is that head of ODOT/OTA is a more technical position, while Secretary of Transportation is more political.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 04, 2019, 05:18:50 AM
I am not really sure what the distinction between transportation secretary and head of ODOT really is. Some people have held both positions at once, with two (Neal McCaleb and Gary Ridley) adding head of OTA to complete the trifecta. My suspicion, based on the fact that Fallin (R) retained Ridley from Henry (D), is that head of ODOT/OTA is a more technical position, while Secretary of Transportation is more political.
That is correct. Kevin Stitt is not happy with that and will try to get more control over the hiring and firing of agency heads. His State of the State speech is today.
Yeah, making even more state government jobs political in nature (and prone to people being hired/fired every 4 years) should work out really really great.
:-/
I mean, it's pretty obvious that agency heads should be able to be fired if there's a need for it. Say, if a major incident occurred and it could be shown that the agency caused it through negligence. But I agree that making it a political patronage position would be silly. At that point, you can just merge the position into the Secretary of Transportation and lose nothing.
The Governor appoints the members of the Transportation Commission (Title 69-302.b). They serve 8 year terms. The Commission selects the Director (Title 69-303.b.2). So unless a Governor gets re-elected, he will have to work with members appointed by the previous Administration. There have been instances where a change in party has prompted resignations, but it is not required.
The February Transportation Commission meeting (11 a.m. on 2/11) has the following item:
Quote
ITEM TO BE PRESENTED BY GENERAL COUNSEL — Mr. Hill
25. Executive Session Discussion of Appointment and Salary of ODOT Director
a) Vote on Executive Session
b) Vote to End Executive Session
c) Motion to appoint the Director of the Oklahoma Department of Transportation effective April 1, 2019,
and set his salary
Not sure if this is pro forma or whether they will announce a new Director.
Looks like OkDOT and OTA(Oklahoma Turnpike Authority) could be merged. I would welcome this. I hope Stitt also works to allow OkDOT to take out loans for road construction which is currently banned.
https://oklahoman.com/article/5653341/stitt-aims-to-merge-department-of-transportation-turnpike-authority
I have pretty mixed feelings about the idea. In the article one of the motives for this dept merger is mentioned: using turnpike revenue to fund other non-turnpike highway projects in rural parts of the state. That's a good recipe for toll hikes. Currently the tolls on Oklahoma's turnpikes are somewhat of a bargain when compared to the toll rates in other states around the nation. The rates won't remain that way if turnpike revenue is seen as an alternative to raising fuel taxes. Oklahoma's recent fuel tax hike (the first in over 25 years) was re-directed to fund teacher pay. It's unlikely we'll see another fuel tax hike any time soon. Turnpike toll hikes would make up for that. People who live way out in the sticks wouldn't feel any of the financial "pain" of those toll hikes. The "liberal city slickers" would be footing more of the bill since they use the turnpikes more often.
As it stands, Oklahoma's rural areas are shedding population. Younger people are moving away in increasing numbers and the older people who remain behind are, well, getting older and older. Recent court rulings on both legal and illegal immigration will make it even harder for ag businesses in rural areas to hire either American-born or migrant labor for their operations. If the population and youth demographic declines can't be reversed the state is going to have an ever more difficult time justifying spending a lot of money on roads in those areas.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on January 27, 2020, 11:45:01 AM
Looks like OkDOT and OTA(Oklahoma Turnpike Authority) could be merged. I would welcome this. I hope Stitt also works to allow OkDOT to take out loans for road construction which is currently banned.
https://oklahoman.com/article/5653341/stitt-aims-to-merge-department-of-transportation-turnpike-authority
Various administrations have tried this in the past. There are valid reasons for it to be separate and vice versa. The main reason they are separate is so OTA can go into debt. The OK Constitution prohibits the State from going into debt (the so-called balanced budget article). Various court rulings over the years have carved out exemptions for agencies that don't use any State appropriated funds. Unless things have recently changed, ODOT gets appropriated funds. Maybe not from General Revenue, but from other funding allocated by the Legislature.
Quote from: rte66man on January 28, 2020, 12:45:34 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on January 27, 2020, 11:45:01 AM
Looks like OkDOT and OTA(Oklahoma Turnpike Authority) could be merged. I would welcome this. I hope Stitt also works to allow OkDOT to take out loans for road construction which is currently banned.
https://oklahoman.com/article/5653341/stitt-aims-to-merge-department-of-transportation-turnpike-authority
Various administrations have tried this in the past. There are valid reasons for it to be separate and vice versa. The main reason they are separate is so OTA can go into debt. The OK Constitution prohibits the State from going into debt (the so-called balanced budget article). Various court rulings over the years have carved out exemptions for agencies that don't use any State appropriated funds. Unless things have recently changed, ODOT gets appropriated funds. Maybe not from General Revenue, but from other funding allocated by the Legislature.
The constitution needs to be amended. OkDOT is the only or one of the very few agencies that can not take out debt for road projects.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on January 28, 2020, 05:27:54 PM
Quote from: rte66man on January 28, 2020, 12:45:34 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on January 27, 2020, 11:45:01 AM
Looks like OkDOT and OTA(Oklahoma Turnpike Authority) could be merged. I would welcome this. I hope Stitt also works to allow OkDOT to take out loans for road construction which is currently banned.
https://oklahoman.com/article/5653341/stitt-aims-to-merge-department-of-transportation-turnpike-authority
Various administrations have tried this in the past. There are valid reasons for it to be separate and vice versa. The main reason they are separate is so OTA can go into debt. The OK Constitution prohibits the State from going into debt (the so-called balanced budget article). Various court rulings over the years have carved out exemptions for agencies that don't use any State appropriated funds. Unless things have recently changed, ODOT gets appropriated funds. Maybe not from General Revenue, but from other funding allocated by the Legislature.
The constitution needs to be amended. OkDOT is the only or one of the very few agencies that can not take out debt for road projects.
<sarcasm>
FLASH!! Hell freezes over! Film at 11</sarcasm>
The Legislature will NEVER give up their leverage to get pet projects in their districts. They would have to pass enabling legislation in order for an amendment on the ballot. If by some miracle that were to pass, the public doesn't trust anyone in government to spend money wisely. It would never get enough votes to pass.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on January 27, 2020, 11:45:01 AM
Looks like OkDOT and OTA(Oklahoma Turnpike Authority) could be merged. I would welcome this. I hope Stitt also works to allow OkDOT to take out loans for road construction which is currently banned.
https://oklahoman.com/article/5653341/stitt-aims-to-merge-department-of-transportation-turnpike-authority
Quote
Stitt also said he'd like to see a situation where revenue from the turnpikes helps the state build and maintain other roads and highways, especially in rural parts of Oklahoma.
The only turnpikes that pay for themselves are the I-44 turnpikes. None of rest of them even break even. Those turnpikes subsidize the other turnpikes. And our genius governor thinks I-44 tolls can pay for the rest of the roads and even build some new ones where nobody lives? He's managing to be worse than his predecessor. Between this and picking a fight with the local tribes for no reason, he's managing to lower the bar.
Correction: only the Turner Turnpike and Will Rogers Turnpike turn a profit. The H.E. Bailey Turnpike (also I-44) doesn't turn a profit.
I don't know how profitable (or not) the urban turnpikes in OKC or Tulsa may be.
Quote from: bugo on February 12, 2020, 08:15:07 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on January 27, 2020, 11:45:01 AM
Looks like OkDOT and OTA(Oklahoma Turnpike Authority) could be merged. I would welcome this. I hope Stitt also works to allow OkDOT to take out loans for road construction which is currently banned.
https://oklahoman.com/article/5653341/stitt-aims-to-merge-department-of-transportation-turnpike-authority
Quote
Stitt also said he'd like to see a situation where revenue from the turnpikes helps the state build and maintain other roads and highways, especially in rural parts of Oklahoma.
The only turnpikes that pay for themselves are the I-44 turnpikes. None of rest of them even break even. Those turnpikes subsidize the other turnpikes. And our genius governor thinks I-44 tolls can pay for the rest of the roads and even build some new ones where nobody lives? He's managing to be worse than his predecessor. Between this and picking a fight with the local tribes for no reason, he's managing to lower the bar.
Well I think he has handled this situation with the tribes wrong but I also think they need to pay a bit more. They do a lot and are amazing folks but we need more revenue for the state and one of those ways is to bring gaming fees in line with other states.
Regarding I-44 yes I've seen that argument but there is a cost reward benefit with everything and I think doing away with all toll roads in the state except for the Indian nation and the urban turnpikes would have a great benefit on statewide travel and commerce. I would be more than satisfied if we just removed tolls on I-44.
Transportation funding needs to be raised regardless. If Oklahoma wants to be a top ten state then the citizens have to pay more taxes. There is no way around that.
Quote from: Plutonic PandaRegarding I-44 yes I've seen that argument but there is a cost reward benefit with everything and I think doing away with all toll roads in the state except for the Indian nation and the urban turnpikes would have a great benefit on statewide travel and commerce. I would be more than satisfied if we just removed tolls on I-44.
The Indian Nation Turnpike doesn't generate enough traffic and toll revenue for it to be self-sustaining. If some people decided to remove the tolls on I-44 in Oklahoma then they might as well take down the toll gates on all the rest of the rural turnpikes in the state. I think the Creek Turnpike in the Tulsa metro and the Kilpatrick Turnpike in metro OKC are possibly the only ones that could carry on in a scenario of tolls being removed on I-44.
Removing the toll gates on all those turnpikes would bring about another consequence very few in the anti-turnpike crowd bother to consider:
a BIG hike in fuel taxes.Oklahoma's existing fuel tax base isn't big enough to take in the added burden of maintaining and improving nearly 600 miles of former turnpikes. Fuel tax hikes in this scenario could end up being pretty steep if current population movement trends in Oklahoma continue for a long term. OKC, Tulsa and a couple zones along the Red River are the only areas in Oklahoma making any net population gains. Most other areas in Oklahoma are losing residents. Smaller customer bases in these areas could increase the price of fuel deliveries and the price of gasoline in those areas. Oklahoma has a lot of roads and bridges built in rural areas. But as those places continue to lose population it will get more difficult to justify maintenance and improvement on those facilities.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 16, 2020, 03:48:32 PM
Quote from: Plutonic PandaRegarding I-44 yes I've seen that argument but there is a cost reward benefit with everything and I think doing away with all toll roads in the state except for the Indian nation and the urban turnpikes would have a great benefit on statewide travel and commerce. I would be more than satisfied if we just removed tolls on I-44.
The Indian Nation Turnpike doesn't generate enough traffic and toll revenue for it to be self-sustaining. If some people decided to remove the tolls on I-44 in Oklahoma then they might as well take down the toll gates on all the rest of the rural turnpikes in the state. I think the Creek Turnpike in the Tulsa metro and the Kilpatrick Turnpike in metro OKC are possibly the only ones that could carry on in a scenario of tolls being removed on I-44.
Removing the toll gates on all those turnpikes would bring about another consequence very few in the anti-turnpike crowd bother to consider: a BIG hike in fuel taxes.
Oklahoma's existing fuel tax base isn't big enough to take in the added burden of maintaining and improving nearly 600 miles of former turnpikes. Fuel tax hikes in this scenario could end up being pretty steep if current population movement trends in Oklahoma continue for a long term. OKC, Tulsa and a couple zones along the Red River are the only areas in Oklahoma making any net population gains. Most other areas in Oklahoma are losing residents. Smaller customer bases in these areas could increase the price of fuel deliveries and the price of gasoline in those areas. Oklahoma has a lot of roads and bridges built in rural areas. But as those places continue to lose population it will get more difficult to justify maintenance and improvement on those facilities.
Fuel tax alone doesn't solely fund highway projects. Suggesting to remove tolls on a freeway because it doesn't turn a profit is the same logic as making transit free. I'm not against toll roads just against interstates being tolled. I do however support HO/T lanes so as long as GP/free lanes are ensured a reasonable LOS which necessitates widenings to keep up with demand– you can't however expect LOS A during peak usage though which is why I support HO/T lanes to provide that for those willing to pay and have it fund free BRT along THAT route and pay for road ONLY improvements.
Oklahoma needs to pay about 30-50 cents more a gallon on fuel. There needs to be more appropriations made to increase highway funding on the federal level. Electric cars should have a per mile tax on them, registrations fees increased to reasonable levels, and along with feds paying higher shares again should be more than enough to pay for the increased maintenance of having I-44 being funded other than tolls.
So I wonder if Oklahoma has 2 non tolled interstates and one tolled interstates how other states are able to do it if I-44 really can't have tolls removed. I just don't but that argument. There needs to be a study done. With that logic if having tolls on I-44 is such a game changer and doesn't impact free trade that much, then I gotta ask, why don't we just toll I-35 and I-44 so OkDOT can focus all of its resources on rural and urban state highway networks.
As I said and I'll say it again, Oklahoma doesn't need to tax itself like California which is overtaxed, but if the state wants to be a top ten state then higher taxes are in order. Local taxes are in order to be raised to to leverage funding from OkDOT without help from the feds. Though I wholeheartedly support freeway expansion and roads drivers need to pay their fare share or stop complaining about traffic congestion and poor maintenance. I give California a pass on that because something doesn't smell right and I do think there is something criminal going on with politicians taking tax monies for one reason or another.
Apart from increased freeway expansion we need passenger rail between OKC and Tulsa, increased speeds and improvements on the heartland flyer, and an expansion of that route to Newton. So a better use of toll revenue for a period of time would be to allow tolls to remain after increased funding for freeways and use that revenue needed along with other identified sources to fund the billions needed for rail and mass transit investment.
Our current system sucks. Shitty highways that lack capacity(Oklahoma's traffic congestion problems are easily fixable unlike other states), deficient interchanges, substandard freeway and highways designs, and horrible mass transit for a state of 4+ million people. There's not even a single commuter rail in the state and yet we spend money on stupid projects like a streetcar. Something has to change and to reiterate I don't buy removing tolls on I-44 is too much to take on. That state is doing shitty anyways with tolls on it.
Quote from: Plutonic PandaFuel tax alone doesn't solely fund highway projects. Suggesting to remove tolls on a freeway because it doesn't turn a profit is the same logic as making transit free.
You're missing my point about the toll roads. The act of building a turnpike and putting up toll gates makes that road
ineligible for many other types of state and federal funding.
The turnpike must be able to sustain itself with toll revenue. Oklahoma would not have been able to build most of its turnpikes without the ability to cross-pledge turnpike bonds and revenue from the Will Rogers and Turner Turnpikes. If the toll gates had simply been removed when the Turner Turnpike and Will Rogers Turnpikes paid for themselves NONE of those other rural turnpikes (including the H.E. Bailey Turnpike) would have ever been built. Those toll roads are NOT self-sustaining on their own revenue. Those highways would have had to be funded through other means, like hikes on the fuel tax rates. Chances are super highways like the H.E. Bailey Turnpike or Indian Nation Turnpike would have never materialized built originally as "free" roads. They don't generate enough toll revenue on their own to pay for their upkeep.
To reiterate, if you get rid of the toll gates on the Turner and Will Rogers Turnpikes then the toll gates have to come down on all of the other rural turnpikes. They can't make it on their own toll revenue. They will need funding from other sources.
Quote from: Plutonic PandaSo I wonder if Oklahoma has 2 non tolled interstates and one tolled interstates how other states are able to do it if I-44 really can't have tolls removed. I just don't but that argument. There needs to be a study done. With that logic if having tolls on I-44 is such a game changer and doesn't impact free trade that much, then I gotta ask, why don't we just toll I-35 and I-44 so OkDOT can focus all of its resources on rural and urban state highway networks.
Most other states don't have nearly as many miles of toll road as Oklahoma. Toll roads in most other parts of the nation are also built in areas with much greater traffic levels. They also carry significantly higher toll rates. The practice of cross pledging is the only thing that made Oklahoma's rural turnpikes possible at all.
Quote from: Plutonic PandaApart from increased freeway expansion we need passenger rail between OKC and Tulsa, increased speeds and improvements on the heartland flyer, and an expansion of that route to Newton. So a better use of toll revenue for a period of time would be to allow tolls to remain after increased funding for freeways and use that revenue needed along with other identified sources to fund the billions needed for rail and mass transit investment.
The OTA is basically giving Oklahomans and anyone else using its turnpikes a bargain on toll rates. There's not a lot of surplus revenue to even pay off all its turnpike bonds, must less provide extra "gravy" to fund things like passenger rail projects. Governor Stitt must be smoking some kind of special flavor weed to think he can use turnpike revenue to fund non-turnpike road projects in rural areas.
America is going to get nowhere fast with rail projects in general as long as it continues to totally suck ass at controlling the cost of building such things. We're already pretty lousy at keeping the lid on explosive costs just with highways. But the cost of rail projects is just laughably ridiculous. And there's no guarantee the rail lines will even generate the ridership needed to keep the whole effort from generating an ocean of red ink.
Keep the turnpikes. ... and build more of them. If these turnpikes were converted into freeways, would they get more funding? Would The Chickasaw Turnpike finally be upgraded? I really doubt that, or they would not have been built as turnpikes. If there are not enough turnpikes that provides road funds, then perhaps a much needed corridor can be built as a turnpike. Parallel to S.H. 3 for example.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/bill-to-merge-odot-oklahoma-turnpike-authority-passes-senate-committee/article_55ca674b-25dc-59f5-8397-3a80fc589020.html
Bill to merge ODOT, Oklahoma Turnpike Authority passes Senate committee
^^^ Bobby we usually agree on a lot but you compare billion dollar costs of rail have you not seen the cost for airports? Many expansions alone exceed a billion dollars and new builds around the world are heading north of 10 billion.
QuoteThat is something you and I agree on. We need hard shoulders more than we need more lanes on the state highways. Leaving them without shoulders is leaving them incomplete. Finish the highways we already have first.
Many of the roads do not have either of those.
QuoteThat doesn't mean nothing can be done to work towards it. I'm not expecting it to happen tomorrow. I'm expecting it to happen. Affordable, timely transportation that doesn't require a car is something that this state needs to remain economically viable or people are going to leave for someplace where they don't have to just light $5000-8000/year on fire. Cost of living keeps going up, but wages sure aren't.
But who will build it? The Oklahoma Rail Authority??
Has a street sign ever been used to patch a pothole before? It has now:
https://twitter.com/connor_r_hansen/status/1235021933944557570?s=21
I'm going to say that's against the MUTCD...
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 04, 2020, 04:37:54 PM
I'm going to say that's against the MUTCD...
Yes, it probably is. What's your point? ;)
Maybe it's a political statement about the funds from the first fuel tax hike in over 25 years going to fund pay raises for "those damn pinko commie teachers" rather than fixing them thar roads.
Hmm. Maybe they should have used a school crosswalk sign for that patch job.
New CIRB update:
QuoteOn Aug. 3, the Oklahoma Transportation Commission approved the nearly $880 million County Improvements for Roads and Bridges plan that has been updated for State Fiscal Years 2021 through 2025, which is designed to address projects like the Belford bridge.
- https://www.constructionequipmentguide.com/oklahoma-counties-to-benefit-from-bridge-road-upgrades/49439
OkDOT bridge rankings go from the worst to the top ten:
Oklahoma highway bridge conditions are making the grade by moving from among the worst in the nation to the head of the class, achieving Top 10 status for the first time by ranking ninth, according to the latest data from the Federal Highway Administration.
The state was as low as 49th place in 2004 in national bridge condition rankings due to the number of structurally deficient bridges on the state highway system.
https://www.ok.gov/triton/modules/newsroom/newsroom_article.php?id=277&article_id=61222
Of note is that this #9 ranking is only considering state-owned bridges, and does not reflect deficient bridges at the county or local level.
Thanks for the clarification.....I was wondering how Oklahoma had moved up 40 places when the county and local bridges are largely still insufficient.
Looks like they updated their website. It's not bad but it was tricky to find press releases and instead of summarized traffic and road updates every weekday they direct you to Twitter which I don't care for:
https://oklahoma.gov/odot.html
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 09, 2020, 05:27:58 PM
Looks like they updated their website. It's not bad but it was tricky to find press releases and instead of summarized traffic and road updates every weekday they direct you to Twitter which I don't care for:
https://oklahoma.gov/odot.html
I like the "Memorial Highways & Bridgets Naming Program". Guess ODOT wants to eliminate all the Bridgets in Oklahoma and give them new names.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on March 04, 2020, 09:14:14 AM
Has a street sign ever been used to patch a pothole before? It has now:
https://twitter.com/connor_r_hansen/status/1235021933944557570?s=21
Good catch. Also a GREAT reuse of an existing surplus item. They could have gone , bought and cut a piece of sheet metal and put it there. Probably a couple hundred extra dollars. The purpose of the sign was to keep the concrete from running out when they scabbed the pothole. Generally you remove the media you use to frame a concrete placement. This time they left the scrapped signs in place....
They could have also replaced the bridge before that was necessary...
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 10, 2020, 04:04:02 PM
They could have also replaced the bridge before that was necessary...
At least they are working on the replacement as we speak.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 10, 2020, 04:04:02 PM
They could have also replaced the bridge before that was necessary...
The state also shares some blame for underfunding ODOT I would argue.
https://www.odot.org/cwp-8-year-plan/cwp_ffy2020-ffy2027/8_year_cwp_divisiontul_map.pdf The new 8 year plan was released:
On a side note, is there an I-444 in Tulsa?
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 30, 2020, 11:22:13 AM
https://www.odot.org/cwp-8-year-plan/cwp_ffy2020-ffy2027/8_year_cwp_divisiontul_map.pdf The new 8 year plan was released:
On a side note, is there an I-444 in Tulsa?
Unsigned, but yes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_444).
Quote from: mvak36 on November 30, 2020, 11:34:06 AM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 30, 2020, 11:22:13 AM
https://www.odot.org/cwp-8-year-plan/cwp_ffy2020-ffy2027/8_year_cwp_divisiontul_map.pdf The new 8 year plan was released:
On a side note, is there an I-444 in Tulsa?
Unsigned, but yes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_444).
It's on some maps, but not signed in field.
Sorry but that was not the new 8yr plan release. This is the real one for 2021-28. Lots of projects have been pushed back as expected. Even before the coronavirus Oklahoma has been unstable with its budget and the virus just made it even worse. Not ODOTs fault, but the state as a whole needs to stop being so damn cheap and find ways to raise taxes to increase revenue. Hopefully next years plan will be better.
https://oklahoma.gov/odot/programs-and-projects/8-year-construction-work-plan.html
This plan is essentially a nothing-burger for Southwest Oklahoma. The only project of real significance is the proposed bypass around the West side of Chickasha. It's the biggest project in this region by an extremely wide margin. The Duncan Bypass will get a $6 million interchange for Elk Avenue. Here in Lawton, the biggest city in SW OK, we may get some puny "safety improvement" for Rogers Lane (US-62). I have no idea what that "safety improvement" may be. The stupid road doesn't even have any shoulders.
OkDOT should be preserving ROW for new freeways in Lawton in the future if growth ever warrants. Lawton has potential if they market themselves right.
The US-81 bypass has been delayed a few years. :/
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on December 10, 2020, 01:03:16 AM
OkDOT should be preserving ROW for new freeways in Lawton in the future if growth ever warrants. Lawton has potential if they market themselves right.
The US-81 bypass has been delayed a few years. :/
That is criminal. The intersection with Elk is a black spot for fatal accidents. They could find that $6 million easily enough.
QuoteBartlesville
That town has a dozen rail lines going through it, all of them with only at grade crossings. They badly need grade separations.
Quote from: rte66manThat is criminal. The intersection with Elk is a black spot for fatal accidents. They could find that $6 million easily enough.
ODOT should have, at bare minimum, installed some street lights and warning signals along the Duncan bypass at the intersections like Elk Avenue and Plato Rd. They should have done that when they built the first phase of the bypass almost 20 years ago. I really dislike the intersection with Osage Rd. The bypass goes around a broad curve as it approaches that intersection. Visibility is not so good.
The Northern extension of the Duncan Bypass, which would dove-tail back into US-81 on the South side of Marlow, looks like it has been taken off the books.
Quote from: In_CorrectThat town has a dozen rail lines going through it, all of them with only at grade crossings.
Bartlesville? That town has one active rail line running North-South through it. All the railroad crossings are at-grade, but that's a single track route that isn't super busy. At least it's not busy on the order of the Southern Transcon line
which runs through Woodward off to the West.
It looks like ODOT is FINALLY going to embrace zipper merging though I wonder how well it is going to work in Oklahoma given all the road warriors here.
https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2021/march/oklahoma-s-first-zipper-merge-coming-to-i-35-in-pauls-valley-thi.html
But, but, but, but........
STATE LAW ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
(https://hot-town-images.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/kotv/production/2017/April/11/tpd-warns-drivers-about-not-merging-properly-in-construction-zones.1491953717000-0.jpeg)
So I'm guessing OKDOT can choose where that is at that law applies to all merging zones and was changed?
It looks Oklahoma will get about 5 billion dollars as part of the hard infrastructure package being debated on in the senate right now. A majority of it will go to roads and bridges giving OkDOT a 30 percent increase in funding.
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/local/oklahoma-city/2021/08/05/infrastructure-bill-would-increase-highway-bridge-funding-oklahoma/5488268001/
I am personally excited for the next update to the 5 year plan. It should really have some projects moved up with some new ones in the pipeline and I don't think it will reflect the infrastructure package either. That will be in next years update I'd guess.
The new 8yr plan is out
https://oklahoma.gov/odot/programs-and-projects/8-year-construction-work-plan.html
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on October 04, 2021, 06:26:39 PM
The new 8yr plan is out
https://oklahoma.gov/odot/programs-and-projects/8-year-construction-work-plan.html
Interesting that six-laning I-35 up to almost Marietta from the Red River is on the plan, albeit a few years out.
At least the US 59/OK 9 overlap west of Spiro is in the program.
I didn't see much to be excited about in that 8 year plan, particularly in District 7. The US-81 bypass for Chickasha is by far the biggest project in the region.
It looks like the biggest project for Lawton, proposed for the 2025 time frame is a new exit on the US-62 freeway West of Lawton. This $16M project is supposed to be a connection to a Northern extension of Goodyear Blvd. This would allow traffic from the big industrial park on Lawton's West side an alternative outlet to I-44, via Rogers Lane. For many years that commercial traffic has been using 82nd Street to get down to OK-36 and then over to I-44. 82nd Street going South of Lawton is in horrible condition from all the wear and tear due to truck traffic. I haven't seen any designs of this exit on US-62. For all I know it could end up being an at-grade intersection with a traffic light.
With the extra traffic burden that will be put onto Rogers Lane ODOT appears to have $5.5M in "safety improvements" planned between 82nd Street and I-44. That cost spread across 6 miles of road probably isn't going to amount to much. I don't think $5.5M would cover the cost of adding shoulders (which Rogers Lane currently lacks).
Yeah it wasn't too exciting. I guess the biggest take away for me on it was it was a massive improvement over last year"˜s plan basically cut tons of projects as a result of reduce funding in this one restored most of those and added a bunch of new rural projects which those areas are important to obviously.
It's kind of hard to get excited about OKC's Area Projects when almost everything is 2027-2029. I'm hoping if an infrastructure bill passes next year's 8 year update will be more exciting.
The biggest projects of note:
I-40 expansion/reconstruction in the eastern section of the metro continuing next year at Douglas Boulevard and continuing with various projects being awarded until 2028. It will be probably be 2030 until that corridor is overhauled.
I-240/I-35 interchange which has been pushed back and forward so many times I'm not really sure if it technically expedited but ODOT has the entire thing be letted in FY 23.
Not many details but it looks like the I-44/I-40 interchange reconstruction will be gearing up in 2029.
I-35 will be expanded to six lanes from I-44 to I-40 in the later part of the decade.
The next phase of the I-35/I-44 interchange reconstruction/redesign by Remington starts next year.
US-281 realignment basically building a new freeway bypass with a full cloverleaf interchange(blah) at I-44 starts in a year or two with some smaller projects and a full build out later on in the decade.
ODOT seems to be eying I-35 with an eventual expansion of six lanes at least from Dallas to OKC with the first part of that starting in south Oklahoma as another poster here pointed out.
Asked via Twitter if turnpike plans could be on the ODOT plan. Nope. "@stevencreynolds Hi Steve, the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority oversees the states' turnpike system. You can visit their page at @OKTurnpike for more information. Thank you!"
Yeah, the ODOT plan is the result of allocating funding they get from the Legislature. OTA is funded by bonds and toll revenue and therefore their schedule looks a lot different. Merging the two into one schedule would be rather difficult since they're on different timelines as far as updates go.
This is their project status update which they just updated today:
https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/ota/documents/other/Project%20Status%20Update.pdf
This is their 5 yr plan which should be updated soon:
https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/ota/documents/other/5%20Year%20Capital%20Plan.pdf
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on October 07, 2021, 02:57:25 PM
This is their project status update which they just updated today:
https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/ota/documents/other/Project%20Status%20Update.pdf
Would love to see what they have planned for the SB US77 to EB JKT movement as one doesn't exist and there really isn't room for a decent loop ramp. Although I expect that is what they will do given the paltry price tag, that will cause serious weaving issues.
^^^^ I hope it's a flyover but I'm getting excited after seeing plans to complete the SH-74 interchange with flyovers only to see it go from being let(in 2019/2020 IIRC) to being shelved to it no longer being on the list of projects. I assume either it was too expensive or perhaps the OTA just felt they had bigger priorities. Either way I was not happy about that.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on October 08, 2021, 07:03:59 PM
^^^^ I hope it's a flyover but I'm getting excited after seeing plans to complete the SH-74 interchange with flyovers only to see it go from being let(in 2019/2020 IIRC) to being shelved to it no longer being on the list of projects. I assume either it was too expensive or perhaps the OTA just felt they had bigger priorities. Either way I was not happy about that.
The amount shown isn't enough for a flyover. They would have to buy the RoW along the west side to have room for a flyover ramp.. Some pretty substantial businesses there to buy out.
This isn't ODOT but since the OTA is more intertwined with ODOT now I don't want to make a new thread for this.
I was browsing around and discovered an OTA website that looks different from the Pikepass website. I found a section going into detail about modernization efforts and the new districts they will have. Currently they have 7 districts and will consolidate them into a NW, SE, SW, Central, and NE setup making 5 districts. I'll link the report in below.
What's weird is they chose Duncan over Lawton for the SW Regional office with Clinton and Altus having smaller offices. Not sure a turnpike near Clinton and Lawton would make more sense as it's right on I-44. It makes no sense.
Here's a link. Scroll to the bottom and click on "draft final recommendations report." It's a 127 pages with the regions and office locations on page 96: https://oklahoma.gov/odot/about/transportation-modernization0.html
At my local AMBUCS civic club meeting last Monday we had the City Manager of Lawton as our guest speaker. Afterward I was talking with him about the city's various needs on street improvements. I half-jokingly told him ODOT regards Lawton as a red-headed step child compared to other cities around the state. It's kind of telling Lawton has a very undesirable status with ODOT and state lawmakers since they would build a regional office in Duncan instead of 25 miles West in a much bigger city on a more important highway junction.
Lawton has a bunch of street and highway improvement needs the local tax base can't cover all on its own. ODOT has its own obligations to corridors in this area, like I-44 and US-62. ODOT built a Super 2 bypass in Duncan that can be eventually upgraded into an Interstate quality freeway. They're going to do the same thing in Chickasha. Meanwhile Lawton has its fake Interstate, Rogers Lane, which now carries the US-62 designation. The road has some dangerous design flaws. Those flaws are going to be magnified after the extension of Goodyear Blvd to US-62 is completed. A lot more trucks will be using Rogers Lane to get to I-44. Lawton has plans to improve Lee Blvd between Goodyear Blvd and I-44. But it's just going to be a higher grade of asphalt. It will take just a little longer for semi trucks to beat the surface to hell. Rogers Lane needs to be upgraded into a real freeway. And Lawton needs a South bypass to route truck traffic from I-44 out to the industrial park on Lawton's West side.
ODOT needs to start planning some major projects around Lawton soon. If the state would properly invest in the area and market it they could make a trendy spot to move to. It already has some industry and natural landscape going for it. It's just held back by severe neglect.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on March 06, 2022, 02:21:57 AM
This isn't ODOT but since the OTA is more intertwined with ODOT now I don't want to make a new thread for this.
I was browsing around and discovered an OTA website that looks different from the Pikepass website. I found a section going into detail about modernization efforts and the new districts they will have. Currently they have 7 districts and will consolidate them into a NW, SE, SW, Central, and NE setup making 5 districts. I'll link the report in below.
What's weird is they chose Duncan over Lawton for the SW Regional office with Clinton and Altus having smaller offices. Not sure a turnpike near Clinton and Lawton would make more sense as it's right on I-44. It makes no sense.
Here's a link. Scroll to the bottom and click on "draft final recommendations report." It's a 127 pages with the regions and office locations on page 96: https://oklahoma.gov/odot/about/transportation-modernization0.html
Since ODOT District 7 is already in Duncan, it makes me wonder if they will office together
Quote from: rte66man on March 06, 2022, 08:21:20 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on March 06, 2022, 02:21:57 AM
This isn't ODOT but since the OTA is more intertwined with ODOT now I don't want to make a new thread for this.
I was browsing around and discovered an OTA website that looks different from the Pikepass website. I found a section going into detail about modernization efforts and the new districts they will have. Currently they have 7 districts and will consolidate them into a NW, SE, SW, Central, and NE setup making 5 districts. I'll link the report in below.
What's weird is they chose Duncan over Lawton for the SW Regional office with Clinton and Altus having smaller offices. Not sure a turnpike near Clinton and Lawton would make more sense as it's right on I-44. It makes no sense.
Here's a link. Scroll to the bottom and click on "draft final recommendations report." It's a 127 pages with the regions and office locations on page 96: https://oklahoma.gov/odot/about/transportation-modernization0.html
Since ODOT District 7 is already in Duncan, it makes me wonder if they will office together
Ah, didn't know that. That's probably what they'll do.
Quote from: Plutonic PandaODOT needs to start planning some major projects around Lawton soon. If the state would properly invest in the area and market it they could make a trendy spot to move to. It already has some industry and natural landscape going for it. It's just held back by severe neglect.
The Medicine Park area next to Lake Lawtonka and the Wichita Mountains is already very trendy. Property prices there have shot up big time, partly due to buyers from the OKC and Tulsa areas "discovering" the place. Medicine Park has some serious growing pains. Its very rudimentary patchwork of streets and lack of adequate parking can't handle the growth in visitor demand.
Meanwhile, Goodyear is one of the biggest employers in the Lawton area. That factory out West of Lawton is freaking huge. It's one of the biggest tire production factories in the world and was at least at one time the biggest tire factory in the world (if it isn't still the biggest). Goodyear management and shipping companies that deal with Goodyear have been pretty disgusted lately about the degradation of highway infrastructure surrounding the plant. The $16 million project to extend Goodyear Blvd up to US-62 is one attempt to deal with the anger. Still, Rogers Lane isn't a very truck-safe route due to its design flaws and amount of local stop-and-go traffic. 82nd Street is the main route South from the plant down to OK-36 and I-44. Drive that stretch just once and your vehicle will need a wheel realignment due to all the road damage. The situation is bad enough that Goodyear has made noises about relocating future expansion efforts to other plants and even reducing operations at the Lawton plant. Damage to trucks is that bad.
But ODOT is fixated on Duncan and Chickasha as well as the US-81 corridor for some odd reason. Lawton can basically go f*** itself as far as they're concerned.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on March 06, 2022, 10:48:23 PM
Quote from: Plutonic PandaODOT needs to start planning some major projects around Lawton soon. If the state would properly invest in the area and market it they could make a trendy spot to move to. It already has some industry and natural landscape going for it. It's just held back by severe neglect.
But ODOT is fixated on Duncan and Chickasha as well as the US-81 corridor for some odd reason. Lawton can basically go f*** itself as far as they're concerned.
Can't really argue with that. Makes me wonder why the area Senators and Reps have been so ineffective in getting more done there.
The only project I see in the 8 Year plan is for "safety improvements" to Rogers Lane in FFY2027.
Quote from: rte66manCan't really argue with that. Makes me wonder why the area Senators and Reps have been so ineffective in getting more done there.
Those reps think the Norman area passes for Southwest Oklahoma. As if the f***king H.E. Bailey Turnpike incomplete extension is a "gift" for people in Lawton.
Quote from: rte66manThe only project I see in the 8 Year plan is for "safety improvements" to Rogers Lane in FFY2027.
It's literally going to take a multi-fatality accident on Rogers Lane to get ODOT to do anything. I don't even know how they could have legally moved the US-62 designation from Cache Road up to Rogers Lane due to all the flaws that are still present.
Not only does the road lack shoulders, but there are curbs at the edge of the right lane. You can't pull over to the side if a police car lights you up; you have to drive to the next intersection and find a parking lot. If you break down you'll either be stopped in the right lane or you can hop the curb into the grass and risk starting a brush fire. The median is bare minimal, very easy to hop. No barrier or anything.
The 38th & Rogers Lane intersection needs to be converted to a limited access exit. The traffic signal causes big traffic back-ups. The intersection is hidden in a valley. Speeding cars can come over the hill and be surprised by a traffic jam they couldn't see just ahead.
There is a concrete sound wall that creates a terrible blind spot for Eastbound Rogers Lane traffic approaching the NW 67th Street intersection. Motorists turning right from 67th onto EB Rogers Lane also have to be very careful. That intersection needs to be a freeway exit too. That intersection is really going to be bad once a lot of trucks going to/from Goodyear, Bar-S, Silverline Plastics, etc start using it.
Oklahoma to Receive an Extra $191 Million in Federal Funding
https://www.roadsbridges.com/funding/news/21384200/oklahoma-to-receive-an-extra-191-million-in-federal-funding
I'm sure they'll figure out how to spend most of that $191 million in the Tulsa area.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on September 20, 2022, 10:21:54 PM
I'm sure they'll figure out how to spend most of that $191 million in the Tulsa area.
Good
Yeah, because f*** the rest of this state, right? Maybe they can sink that nearly $200 million into the white water rapids park thing on the Arkansas River.
I Hate " Accept All Cookies. " :
Quote
FUNDING
Oklahoma to Receive an Extra $191 Million in Federal Funding
September 08, 2022
The extra funding will help speed up some infrastructure projects
The Oklahoma Department of Transportation (ODOT) is set to receive an extra $191 million in federal funding.
The extra $191 million are funds that didn't get spent in the fiscal year, so it gets sent out across the country, according to ODOT Executive Director Tim Gatz as he addressed the transportation commission on Tuesday.
Gatz noted that it isn't unusual to receive additional funding, though this extra allocation is significantly higher than normal. Gatz added that the amount is usually between $30 and $70 million.
"There are a lot of complexities in the way that the federal funding operates," Gatz said. "It always comes with strings attached, funding buckets, criteria that you've got to meet."
Gatz said ODOT will use some of the money to complete ongoing projects. It could even lead to some road work being finished much earlier than expected.
"At the end of the day, it's going to move some projects forward faster," Gatz said.
----------------------------------
Source: ODOT
Ah, August redistiribution. It's really isn't as simple as the article made it out to be. This is redistribution of obligation limitation, rather than apportionment. So, it isn't a matter of more money -- it's just an increase in how much current funding can be used in the current FFY for conversion from "advanced construction" to obligation.
This will not be used for new projects, but to obligate funding on current projects. That's not so bad, actually, as if OK had hit its annual obligation limitation, this will allow work to progress and bills paid on those projects, rather than waiting to next FFY to be able to do so.
The idea is that most core apportionments can roll from year to year, but FHWA puts a cap on how much of the apportionment can actually be used within an FFY. August redistribution just raises that cap.
Getting more obligation limitation than expected can actually be a stress for a DOT, since they have to find projects to use it up on and quickly.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on September 21, 2022, 12:40:16 AM
Yeah, because f*** the rest of this state, right? Maybe they can sink that nearly $200 million into the white water rapids park thing on the Arkansas River.
You really think Tulsa gets all the highway funds? What? The largest metro in the nation without non-tolled interstate access? Every highway in every direction out of Tulsa is tolled. The big project in Tulsa now is replacing the I-44/US-75 interchange which at over 60 years old is the very oldest interstate interchange in the entire state.
Quote from: swake on September 21, 2022, 04:26:33 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on September 21, 2022, 12:40:16 AM
Yeah, because f*** the rest of this state, right? Maybe they can sink that nearly $200 million into the white water rapids park thing on the Arkansas River.
You really think Tulsa gets all the highway funds? What? The largest metro in the nation without non-tolled interstate access? Every highway in every direction out of Tulsa is tolled. The big project in Tulsa now is replacing the I-44/US-75 interchange which at over 60 years old is the very oldest interstate interchange in the entire state.
Bobby lives in Lawton........
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 21, 2022, 05:16:49 PM
Quote from: swake on September 21, 2022, 04:26:33 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on September 21, 2022, 12:40:16 AM
Yeah, because f*** the rest of this state, right? Maybe they can sink that nearly $200 million into the white water rapids park thing on the Arkansas River.
You really think Tulsa gets all the highway funds? What? The largest metro in the nation without non-tolled interstate access? Every highway in every direction out of Tulsa is tolled. The big project in Tulsa now is replacing the I-44/US-75 interchange which at over 60 years old is the very oldest interstate interchange in the entire state.
Bobby lives in Lawton........
I see that.
He's upset of the lack of a limited access exit in Lawton at 38th St. He should check out US-75 at 141st St in Glenpool. US-75 is the main truck route between Dallas and Tulsa and it carries double the traffic count of that on US-62. I checked traffic on Google Maps just now and the stoplight at 141st is backed up half a mile going north into Tulsa and a mile and a half going south from Tulsa, and the downtown work traffic hasn't even gotten there yet.
Oklahoma has crappy roads to spare, it's all over.
I'm not sure you're entirely cognizant of exactly how bad Lawton is, though. It is a quarter of the size of Tulsa, yet only has one freeway serving it (which, like Tulsa, is tolled in both directions when you leave the metropolitan area). The major east-west corridor is US-62/Rogers Lane, which is like someone looked at SH-9 in Norman and was like "how could we do that, but even worse"?
Oklahoma does have crappy roads in all regions, but at least in Oklahoma City and Tulsa the state has been investing money into fixing the most problematic spots. In both cities, the freeway network is something resembling modern, at least. Lawton has yet to see any meaningful investment in its transportation network at all. It still very much feels like driving around Oklahoma City felt in the 1990s, or Tulsa in the mid-2000s.
Quote from: swakeHe's upset of the lack of a limited access exit in Lawton at 38th St. He should check out US-75 at 141st St in Glenpool. US-75 is the main truck route between Dallas and Tulsa and it carries double the traffic count of that on US-62. I checked traffic on Google Maps just now and the stoplight at 141st is backed up half a mile going north into Tulsa and a mile and a half going south from Tulsa, and the downtown work traffic hasn't even gotten there yet.
There is no arguing the Tulsa region does get disproportionately favored by the state government and state agencies, maybe even more than OKC. I have no doubt much of that $191 million of
redistribution funding will go to NE OK. I expect little if any going to SW OK. That doesn't mean I have any obligation to smile about it.
As for US-75 and the at-grade intersection with 141st Street in Glenpool, the powers that be in the Tulsa area have about a million times greater chance of converting that intersection into a limited access exit than anything happening down here in Lawton. I do think the US-75 corridor between Tulsa and I-40 should be a limited access corridor. The only thing I can figure is there could be local resistance from businesses next to US-75 that don't want to be displaced by new frontage roads and/or exit ramps.
US-62/Rogers Lane in Lawton may not have the traffic count of US-75 going South of Tulsa. Nevertheless Rogers Lane does get pretty busy and is a sub-standard highway with dangerous flaws. The intersection of US-75 and 141st Street in Glenpool has flat, clear sight lines. The intersection of 38th Street and Rogers Lane is down in a valley that can literally hide traffic back-ups from approaching vehicles going 50mph or faster.
This and other issues along Rogers Lane are going to get quite a lot worse once Goodyear Blvd is extended up to US-62. That's going to put a lot more trucks from the big industrial park West of Lawton onto Rogers Lane. Cars and pick-up trucks can stop a lot faster in response to blind spot issues than an 18-wheel semi. The trucks are definitely going to take Rogers Lane because Lee Blvd thru Lawton is beat to shit, and SW 82nd Street (the backdoor route down to OK-36 and I-44) is in far worse shape. Trucks literally get damaged going that way.
I've watched a lot of fairly serious upgrade projects take place on I-35, I-40 and I-44 elsewhere in the state. In the Lawton area the "best" thing I've seen from ODOT is them basically doing a patch job on the existing I-44/2nd Street/Cache Road interchange a few years ago. The paint job they did on the old tri-level bridge already has lots of rust streaks bleeding through it. Any problem in Lawton gets a very minimal solution.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on September 21, 2022, 07:19:59 PM
I've watched a lot of fairly serious upgrade projects take place on I-35, I-40 and I-44 elsewhere in the state. In the Lawton area the "best" thing I've seen from ODOT is them basically doing a patch job on the existing I-44/2nd Street/Cache Road interchange a few years ago. The paint job they did on the old tri-level bridge already has lots of rust streaks bleeding through it. Any problem in Lawton gets a very minimal solution.
I just looked at that interchange on GSV. It looks like they painted it the specific shade of red they did to try to cover up the rust. It didn't work.
Yeah, it's pretty awful. :crazy: The paint job and added-on buffalo relief graphics looked good for about a year. Then the rust started bleeding through. It's starting to look really bad now. Maybe if they painted the whole thing that dark burgundy color that might have done more to hide rust, but it would have looked pretty harsh. Rust really shows through that light tan EIFS color. I think that tri-level bridge for Cache Road running into I-44 was built sometime back in the 1960's. I'm surprised ODOT hasn't just replaced those things. They've done so with so many old bridges of similar designs elsewhere in Oklahoma.
It's older than that, even–a photo of it appears on the back of the 1956 state highway map. I'm guessing it was built as part of the southern H.E. Bailey turnpike segment.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on September 21, 2022, 10:15:40 PM
Yeah, it's pretty awful. :crazy: The paint job and added-on buffalo relief graphics looked for about a year. Then the rust started bleeding through. It's starting to look really bad now. Maybe if they painted the whole thing that dark burgundy color that might have done more to hide rust, but it would have looked pretty harsh. Rust really shows through that light tan EIFS color. I think that tri-level bridge for Cache Road running into I-44 was built sometime back in the 1960's. I'm surprised ODOT hasn't just replaced those things. They've done so with so many old bridges of similar designs elsewhere in Oklahoma.
https://goo.gl/maps/othSKx7fktnC1R5S7 eh
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 21, 2022, 10:57:53 PM
It's older than that, even–a photo of it appears on the back of the 1956 state highway map. I'm guessing it was built as part of the southern H.E. Bailey turnpike segment.
No, most of it was already there when the Bailey was built ca 1964. ODOT tacked on the eastern ramps so US277 (before it was I-44) could bend east into the Cache Creek floodplain. Cheaper to build there than to plow straight south along 2nd.
The new 8yr plan is live. It is the 2023-2030 plan: https://oklahoma.gov/odot/programs-and-projects/8-year-construction-work-plan.html
The traffic light in Glenpool is in the plan.
The new plan sucks. Major projects like the I-35/I-240 Interchange and the I-35/Waterloo Interchange that were schedule to be let in 2023 are now pushed back to 2025. Major bummer.
Quote from: bugo on October 03, 2022, 06:23:07 PM
The traffic light in Glenpool is in the plan.
Holy crap, it is on the plan for 2024 and the last plan didn't have it at all. The state moved back the US-75 81st St exit widening to 2025. I think the 141st exit took its place. Both are a mess, but 141st is worse.
There is some I-?? construction in the plan. Several interchanges are going to be built along US 412 in Rogers County, including "operational improvements" to the I-44/OK 66 interchange in Catoosa, interchanges at 4170 Rd, OK 412P, 265th St, 4190 Rd and 4240 Rd. A bridge is being built to carry 289th over the future Interstate. In Mayes County, the US 412/OK 412B intersection is getting "intersection modifications". Hopefully it is some sort of interchange or split. This stretch of highway is the longest non-freeway section of Future I-?? in Oklahoma.
For awhile ODOT really seemed to be doing a great job of keeping their project pages updated. They'd post upcoming commission meetings on their press releases and post summaries after they concluded. They added new major project pages, Legislative work source page that they'd have monthly updates on each project. They also added a GIS map of nearly every active project going on. I was really impressed.
That lasted for about 4 years or so. Projects on the Legislative resource center page haven't been updated for years(again whereas before it was updated monthly). Major project pages haven't been updated in years. They stopped posting commission meeting summaries. They still list active construction sites that don't seem to have any activity though I could forgive one given there could be work going on where you can't see.
Still they've just completely neglected keeping the public informed on updates with current projects. They used to have a map showing all of the upcoming 8yr plan projects and they didn't make one this year just a list.
This almost seems to coincide with the de facto merger of the OTA into ODOT with Tim Gatz leading both. I don't know if that's why but it is a shame to see.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 09, 2022, 06:44:08 AM
For awhile ODOT really seemed to be doing a great job of keeping their project pages updated. They'd post upcoming commission meetings on their press releases and post summaries after they concluded. They added new major project pages, Legislative work source page that they'd have monthly updates on each project. They also added a GIS map of nearly every active project going on. I was really impressed.
That lasted for about 4 years or so. Projects on the Legislative resource center page haven't been updated for years(again whereas before it was updated monthly). Major project pages haven't been updated in years. They stopped posting commission meeting summaries. They still list active construction sites that don't seem to have any activity though I could forgive one given there could be work going on where you can't see.
Still they've just completely neglected keeping the public informed on updates with current projects. They used to have a map showing all of the upcoming 8yr plan projects and they didn't make one this year just a list.
This almost seems to coincide with the de facto merger of the OTA into ODOT with Tim Gatz leading both. I don't know if that's why but it is a shame to see.
I believe the degradation began when OMES took over all IT functions.
Quote from: rte66manI believe the degradation began when OMES took over all IT functions.
They're probably trying to do the same amount of work with fewer people. 'Cuz
"efficiencies."
Stitt won reelection, so expect it to get even worse in the next 4 years.
One bright side to Stitt being re-elected: the ACCESS Oklahoma plan will likely survive at least another 4 years. Joy Hofmeister was not in favor of the plan.
One bad thing about Stitt being re-elected, and Ryan Walters beating Jena Nelson for the State Superintendent of public schools job, Oklahoma will likely continue to lose public school teachers.
Hopefully construction can get started on the south metro projects within 4 years.
Has has interestingly added a roundabouts page on their major projects list which shows all the recently completed ones and future roundabouts as well as those under construction: https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/major-projects/ongoing-projects/roundabouts-in-oklahoma.html