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Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered at https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=33904.0
Corrected several already and appreciate your patience as we work through the rest.

Author Topic: Can we restrict roundabout discussions?  (Read 4429 times)

Rothman

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Re: Can we restrict roundabout discussions?
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2023, 08:58:42 AM »

The real question is if the OP learned their lesson from this thread.
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Molandfreak

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Re: Can we restrict roundabout discussions?
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2023, 01:36:28 PM »

The real question is if the OP learned their lesson from this thread.
Remember when Terry Shea suggested you get a lobotomy? That isn't just abusive, it's psychotic. I won't apologize for trying to bring attention to a chronic thread derailer who doesn't have the ability to participate in discussions in a civil manner. The fact that he was able to soapbox that much shows that he isn't under the posting restrictions he should be under.

Again, when a user is a little bit annoying and/or posts too much="OMG this user is the worst! They need to be banned!"

But when a user is actually abusive=*crickets*
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kalvado

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Re: Can we restrict roundabout discussions?
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2023, 02:14:37 PM »

The real question is if the OP learned their lesson from this thread.
Remember when Terry Shea suggested you get a lobotomy? That isn't just abusive, it's psychotic. I won't apologize for trying to bring attention to a chronic thread derailer who doesn't have the ability to participate in discussions in a civil manner. The fact that he was able to soapbox that much shows that he isn't under the posting restrictions he should be under.

Again, when a user is a little bit annoying and/or posts too much="OMG this user is the worst! They need to be banned!"

But when a user is actually abusive=*crickets*
The former land of the First Amendment.....
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Can we restrict roundabout discussions?
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2023, 02:19:24 PM »

I’m wondering what the supposed “lesson”  learned was supposed to be?  I don’t necessarily disagree with the OP that the topic he brought up is annoying.  I just don’t think there is a good way to restrict/mitigate something so mainstream as people not liking roundabouts.
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Rothman

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Re: Can we restrict roundabout discussions?
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2023, 02:34:01 PM »



I’m wondering what the supposed “lesson”  learned was supposed to be?  I don’t necessarily disagree with the OP that the topic he brought up is annoying.  I just don’t think there is a good way to restrict/mitigate something so mainstream as people not liking roundabouts.

That complaining about a topic on this forum only serves to prolong that topic, rather than constrain it.
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roadman65

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Re: Can we restrict roundabout discussions?
« Reply #30 on: April 15, 2023, 04:43:46 PM »

Dumbbells are popping up all over the interstates. I’m sure someday, CDOT will install one in Limon.
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Sheryl Crowe

Max Rockatansky

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Re: Can we restrict roundabout discussions?
« Reply #31 on: April 15, 2023, 04:59:05 PM »

Dumbbells are popping up all over the interstates. I’m sure someday, CDOT will install one in Limon.

So we can add Limon to:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=32494.0
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JREwing78

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Re: Can we restrict roundabout discussions?
« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2023, 07:43:32 PM »

I’m wondering what the supposed “lesson”  learned was supposed to be?

Offer some evidence to back up your opinions on roundabouts? For example: higher accident rates, higher fatal crashes, roundabout costs XXX amount more than a stoplight, more congestion, etc. Something besides "Eww.... roundabouts! Icky!"

Blindly screaming "Waste of money" without some numbers to back it up doesn't get us anywhere. I almost never hear a good, cogent, logical reason behind a "Waste of money" complaint - it's usually a clear indication to me that the person spouting the opinion is ignorant about WHY the money is being spent. It's usually a knee jerk reaction to something they invested little thought into.

The visceral hatred towards roundabouts tells me one thing - they get people's attention. That's honestly a rare thing today - drivers are usually more obsessed with their phones than what's outside their windshield. Also, the consequences of screwing up at a roundabout tend to be minor v.s. the horrific wrecks when someone gets T-boned at high speed at a stoplight.
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kphoger

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Re: Can we restrict roundabout discussions?
« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2023, 08:18:11 PM »

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Re: Can we restrict roundabout discussions?
« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2023, 08:51:32 PM »

Pretty sure Limon is a roundabout discussion, or perhaps a Moebius.

"it's not big enough of a city"
"then we use a bigger city"
"it's too far away"
"then we use a control state"
"but control states are bad"
"so we'll use another city"
"what city is out there that people know?"
"they can use a map"
"but nobody uses maps anymore"
"they'll use a GPS anyway"
"people shouldn't use their GPS, it's distracting and makes for bad drivers"
"maybe we'll have less drivers on the road then"
"then why would they put an interstate there?"
"so Limon can get to Denver"
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froggie

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Re: Can we restrict roundabout discussions?
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2023, 03:06:57 PM »

Seriously, people ranting about how much they hate roundabouts just derails good discussions. This isn’t your soapbox, nor is it the place to post your conspiracy theories that DOTs are purposely wasting money on them.

Discussions like these are no better than the Daylight Savings Time discussions that got banned. They go absolutely nowhere. If you want to post about how much you hate roundabouts, the “unpopular road-related opinions”  thread is the place to do it. Nowhere else.

I prefer "popular road-related opinions" because roundabouts are that bad.

Roundabouts aren’t bad.  Drivers are.
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kalvado

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Re: Can we restrict roundabout discussions?
« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2023, 03:08:24 PM »

Seriously, people ranting about how much they hate roundabouts just derails good discussions. This isn’t your soapbox, nor is it the place to post your conspiracy theories that DOTs are purposely wasting money on them.

Discussions like these are no better than the Daylight Savings Time discussions that got banned. They go absolutely nowhere. If you want to post about how much you hate roundabouts, the “unpopular road-related opinions”  thread is the place to do it. Nowhere else.

I prefer "popular road-related opinions" because roundabouts are that bad.

Roundabouts aren’t bad.  Drivers are.
Standard response to that: change things for the better, surrender your license!
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Scott5114

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Re: Can we restrict roundabout discussions?
« Reply #37 on: April 17, 2023, 06:17:07 PM »

I'm still waiting for proof of a roundabout that is prone to crashing, rather than being the site of crashes.
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Rothman

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Re: Can we restrict roundabout discussions?
« Reply #38 on: April 17, 2023, 06:21:36 PM »

I'm still waiting for proof of a roundabout that is prone to crashing, rather than being the site of crashes.
Mortal Roundabouts
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Re: Can we restrict roundabout discussions?
« Reply #39 on: April 17, 2023, 06:34:43 PM »

I'm still waiting for proof of a roundabout that is prone to crashing, rather than being the site of crashes.

Put an advertising billboard in the middle. Wait until it gets a Windows error message.
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Quillz

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Re: Can we restrict roundabout discussions?
« Reply #40 on: April 17, 2023, 06:44:18 PM »

Seriously, people ranting about how much they hate roundabouts just derails good discussions. This isn’t your soapbox, nor is it the place to post your conspiracy theories that DOTs are purposely wasting money on them.

Discussions like these are no better than the Daylight Savings Time discussions that got banned. They go absolutely nowhere. If you want to post about how much you hate roundabouts, the “unpopular road-related opinions”  thread is the place to do it. Nowhere else.
I don't even know how money is being wasted when studies have pretty consistently shown roundabouts, when implemented properly, work exactly as they should.
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Scott5114

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Re: Can we restrict roundabout discussions?
« Reply #41 on: April 17, 2023, 07:21:17 PM »

Discussions like these are no better than the Daylight Savings Time discussions that got banned. They go absolutely nowhere.

Would you say they... go in circles? :spin:
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hbelkins

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Re: Can we restrict roundabout discussions?
« Reply #42 on: April 18, 2023, 11:29:21 AM »

Seriously, people ranting about how much they hate roundabouts just derails good discussions. This isn’t your soapbox, nor is it the place to post your conspiracy theories that DOTs are purposely wasting money on them.

Discussions like these are no better than the Daylight Savings Time discussions that got banned. They go absolutely nowhere. If you want to post about how much you hate roundabouts, the “unpopular road-related opinions”  thread is the place to do it. Nowhere else.

I prefer "popular road-related opinions" because roundabouts are that bad.

Roundabouts aren’t bad.  Drivers are.

Are roundabouts the only modern feature that aren't as forgiving of driver error? In things like DDIs and J-turns/RCUTs/Michigan lefts, there's a certain amount of "driver-proofing" that lets people mask bad driving habits. I don't think that's the case with roundabouts.
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kphoger

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Re: Can we restrict roundabout discussions?
« Reply #43 on: April 18, 2023, 11:42:19 AM »

Are roundabouts the only modern feature that aren't as forgiving of driver error? In things like DDIs and J-turns/RCUTs/Michigan lefts, there's a certain amount of "driver-proofing" that lets people mask bad driving habits. I don't think that's the case with roundabouts.

Roundabouts are forgiving of driver error.  Rarely do they result in high-speed T-bone crashes:  generally, crashes are low-speed glancing blows.  As has been shown in That Other Thread, adding lanes to the roundabout introduces non-sideswipe conflict points, but they're still not generally 90° conflicts.  Failing to properly yield at a two-way stop has the potential for much greater harm than failing to properly yield at a roundabout.

The sorts of driver error I most commonly see at roundabouts are these:

(1) don't understand what the white stripes on the pavement are for, can't drive without encroaching into another lane

(2) too timid, refuse to go when a gap opens up

(3) aaahh!! something unfamiliar!! best to just stop right here until God himself tells me to go
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skluth

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Re: Can we restrict roundabout discussions?
« Reply #44 on: April 18, 2023, 11:51:24 AM »

Pretty sure Limon is a roundabout discussion, or perhaps a Moebius.


I think a roundabout completely around Limon is a great idea. A Moebius roundabout would be even better.
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kalvado

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Re: Can we restrict roundabout discussions?
« Reply #45 on: April 18, 2023, 12:45:58 PM »

Seriously, people ranting about how much they hate roundabouts just derails good discussions. This isn’t your soapbox, nor is it the place to post your conspiracy theories that DOTs are purposely wasting money on them.

Discussions like these are no better than the Daylight Savings Time discussions that got banned. They go absolutely nowhere. If you want to post about how much you hate roundabouts, the “unpopular road-related opinions”  thread is the place to do it. Nowhere else.

I prefer "popular road-related opinions" because roundabouts are that bad.

Roundabouts aren’t bad.  Drivers are.

Are roundabouts the only modern feature that aren't as forgiving of driver error? In things like DDIs and J-turns/RCUTs/Michigan lefts, there's a certain amount of "driver-proofing" that lets people mask bad driving habits. I don't think that's the case with roundabouts.
You are trying to compare layouts which are still light controlled with an uncontrolled design. If anything, FYA is the only one I can think of which may force a movement without right of way. Same for traditional light without dedicated turn lanes though.
Once upon a time I compared a roundabout with the mandatory RTOR - possibly from the second or third lane. That lack of protection is the biggest factor distinguishing roundabouts from many other mid to high volume designs from my perspective.
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