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Phoenix Area Highways

Started by swbrotha100, February 22, 2015, 07:18:10 PM

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ztonyg

Quote from: 21stCenturyRoad on November 26, 2019, 02:20:36 PM
Does anyone know why AZ 303 begins with Mile 104? I'm aware of Arizona's method of mileage starting points, but I can't find out how they came up with Mile 104 as a starting point.

I believe they added 100 to the mile numbers for some reason (potentially future expansion). Exit 104 is 4 miles north of the future start of the freeway at AZ30.


Concrete Bob

I've seen planning maps where Loop 303 heads south of the future Tres Rios Freeway (SR 30) down towards the future Hassayampa Freeway (I-11).  Then, it is concurrent with I-11 for about 5 or 10 miles, and then heads south to I-8.  Whether that accounts for an additional 100 miles of roadway south of SR 30 is anyone's guess at this point.

Zonie

MM 100 was arbitrary -- that way there wasn't a need to make a mass update should Loop 303 go further south than SR 30.

Roadwarriors79

#353
I saw from earlier in the thread that ADOT actually posted on their Facebook page the reasoning behind adding 100 to the old mileposts on Loop 303:


"Basically, the 303 milepost numbers provide flexibility. They are based on milepost 100 being near the intersection of Loop 303 and MC 85, which is the current terminus in the Maricopa Association of Government's (MAG) Regional Transportation Plan. starting with milepost 100 ensures that there would be no negative milepost numbering as MAG, which is responsible for long-range transportation planning within Maricopa County, considers whether Loop 303 should extend further south."

Unknown to most of the public, original plans for Loop 101 had a starting point of MC 85/Buckeye Rd in Tolleson.  If 99th Ave had been used as the alignment for Loop 101 back then, who knows what that area could have been like today?

Roadwarriors79

Another drone video of the South Mountain Freeway's Center segment. Video below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYnVN71ZuEQ

Exit58

Regarding the South Mountain Freeway, it sounds like it was renamed last month to the "˜Ed Pastor Freeway' according to some outlets. Is this just a "˜in memory of' type thing or is it a legal name change? It seems like everyone is still calling it the South Mountain Freeway, which is preferable IMO. I don't care for freeways named after people, it just seems weird. Piestewa Freeway gets a pass in my book because it's technically named after a mountain.

KeithE4Phx

#356
Quote from: Exit58 on November 28, 2019, 01:02:38 PM
Regarding the South Mountain Freeway, it sounds like it was renamed last month to the "˜Ed Pastor Freeway' according to some outlets. Is this just a "˜in memory of' type thing or is it a legal name change? It seems like everyone is still calling it the South Mountain Freeway, which is preferable IMO. I don't care for freeways named after people, it just seems weird.

It's official, and a legal name change.
https://www.azfamily.com/news/ap_cnn/arizona-loop-section-renamed-after-congressman-ed-pastor/article_b4b1bfce-f719-11e9-858a-0ff6d951649e.html

You'd really hate Chicago, with freeways (called expressways there) and tollways named after Dwight Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy, Ronald Reagan, Adlai Stevenson, Jane Addams, William G. Edens, Dan Ryan, Bishop Lewis Henry Ford, Robert Kingery, and Frank Borman (in Indiana).

QuotePiestewa Freeway gets a pass in my book because it's technically named after a mountain.

Both the former Squaw Peak Pkwy/Fwy (AZ 51) and Squaw Peak itself were named after PFC Lori Piestewa, a Hopi who was the first Native American woman killed in battle.
"Oh, so you hate your job? Well, why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called "EVERYBODY!" They meet at the bar." -- Drew Carey

Roadwarriors79

Loop 303 is officially named the Bob Stump Memorial Parkway. However, I have rarely seen or heard the official name referenced by anyone. "Ed Pastor Freeway" may get mentioned to distinguish it from other sections of Loop 202, but I bet most people will still call it the South Mountain Freeway or just Loop 202.

jakeroot

Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on November 29, 2019, 04:32:43 AM
Loop 303 is officially named the Bob Stump Memorial Parkway. However, I have rarely seen or heard the official name referenced by anyone.

So the 303 went from "Estrella Freeway" to "Bob Stump Memorial Parkway"? I was not aware of "freeway" and "parkway" being interchangeable. At least up here, parkways are never more than a "well-dressed" surface arterial.

Roadwarriors79

Quote from: jakeroot on November 29, 2019, 05:00:10 AM
Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on November 29, 2019, 04:32:43 AM
Loop 303 is officially named the Bob Stump Memorial Parkway. However, I have rarely seen or heard the official name referenced by anyone.

So the 303 went from "Estrella Freeway" to "Bob Stump Memorial Parkway"? I was not aware of "freeway" and "parkway" being interchangeable. At least up here, parkways are never more than a "well-dressed" surface arterial.

To be honest, the naming of Bob Stump Memorial Parkway took place in 2004. Back then, Loop 303 wasn't a freeway.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on November 29, 2019, 10:56:42 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 29, 2019, 05:00:10 AM
Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on November 29, 2019, 04:32:43 AM
Loop 303 is officially named the Bob Stump Memorial Parkway. However, I have rarely seen or heard the official name referenced by anyone.

So the 303 went from "Estrella Freeway" to "Bob Stump Memorial Parkway"? I was not aware of "freeway" and "parkway" being interchangeable. At least up here, parkways are never more than a "well-dressed" surface arterial.

To be honest, the naming of Bob Stump Memorial Parkway took place in 2004. Back then, Loop 303 wasn't a freeway.

It wasn't a parkway then either, just a rural two lane road. 

jakeroot

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 29, 2019, 11:24:16 AM
Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on November 29, 2019, 10:56:42 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 29, 2019, 05:00:10 AM
Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on November 29, 2019, 04:32:43 AM
Loop 303 is officially named the Bob Stump Memorial Parkway. However, I have rarely seen or heard the official name referenced by anyone.

So the 303 went from "Estrella Freeway" to "Bob Stump Memorial Parkway"? I was not aware of "freeway" and "parkway" being interchangeable. At least up here, parkways are never more than a "well-dressed" surface arterial.

To be honest, the naming of Bob Stump Memorial Parkway took place in 2004. Back then, Loop 303 wasn't a freeway.

It wasn't a parkway then either, just a rural two lane road.

All a bit interesting. I don't mind Estrella vs Bob Stump, I just find it odd that "parkway" was the final term, and not "freeway" given that it would ultimately become a freeway.

We have this issue in Washington State, where freeways are occasionally named "...Memorial Highway", even though (like in most western states) everyone calls the road a "freeway". There can sometimes be a strange disconnect between the state legislature and DOT with accepted idioms used by the public. More people might use "Bob Stump Freeway" if that was what it was called, but the current name is both (A) too long IMO, and (B) not reflective of the actual physical properties of the road, which is more that of a freeway than a parkway. Using terms like "parkway" for a freeway is more confusing than anything.

Concrete Bob

I think the term "parkway" is a lot less evasive sounding than "freeway" to the average non-roadgeek.  As "roadgeeks," we know the difference. As long as Loop 303 gets built, that is all that matters. I still think of Loop 303 as the Estrella freeway.  I sure hope a whole lot more of those "parkways" get built along the peripheries of the cities across North America.

Roadwarriors79

I think most people in the valley use the numbers rather than the actual freeway names. Names are occasionally used with Loop 101 and Loop 202 for their various segments, mostly by traffic reporters. I have never heard anyone refer to Loop 303 by the Bob Stump Parkway name, ever. Some of the freeway names are signed in the field.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on November 30, 2019, 10:12:18 AM
I think most people in the valley use the numbers rather than the actual freeway names. Names are occasionally used with Loop 101 and Loop 202 for their various segments, mostly by traffic reporters. I have never heard anyone refer to Loop 303 by the Bob Stump Parkway name, ever. Some of the freeway names are signed in the field.

The only one I ever recall being called by the name on the news was AZ 51 when it was known as the Squaw Peak Freeway and then Piestwa Freeway. 

Concrete Bob

During the early iterations of the Phoenix Freeway planning in the early 1980s, SR 51 was deemed the "Squaw Peak Parkway," if my memory serves correct. I love how SR 51 goes up into the hills and you think you are going somewhere Arizona-Rural, only to be let into more suburbs at Shea Boulevard. Maricopa County has done such an awesome job on their freeway system. We didn't have internet as we know it now in the 1980s, so I didn't know about the Proposition 300 plans until I bought a Thomas Guide at the Los Angeles County Fair in 1989.  When I saw the "PROP FRWY" lines on the maps, I blew a mental fuse.  I was amazed that a planning bureau was still planning new freeways at that date and age. The beauty was that most of the freeways got built, with the exception of the Paradise Freeway, Sky Harbor and Grand Expressway. Even Grand Avenue will continue to get upgrades into 2026 and beyond.  And, the old Durango Freeways have been dusted back as the Tres Rios Freeway. Go figure.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Concrete Bob on November 30, 2019, 01:55:21 PM
During the early iterations of the Phoenix Freeway planning in the early 1980s, SR 51 was deemed the "Squaw Peak Parkway," if my memory serves correct. I love how SR 51 goes up into the hills and you think you are going somewhere Arizona-Rural, only to be let into more suburbs at Shea Boulevard. Maricopa County has done such an awesome job on their freeway system. We didn't have internet as we know it now in the 1980s, so I didn't know about the Proposition 300 plans until I bought a Thomas Guide at the Los Angeles County Fair in 1989.  When I saw the "PROP FRWY" lines on the maps, I blew a mental fuse.  I was amazed that a planning bureau was still planning new freeways at that date and age. The beauty was that most of the freeways got built, with the exception of the Paradise Freeway, Sky Harbor and Grand Expressway. Even Grand Avenue will continue to get upgrades into 2026 and beyond.  And, the old Durango Freeways have been dusted back as the Tres Rios Freeway. Go figure.

Yes, 51 cuts through a pass which used to be inhabited by Northern Avenue in the Phoenix Mountains.  I used to live on 32nd Street and Shea Boulevard and would use the pedestrian over crossing from Northern to the Phoenix Mountains Preserve every morning.  Suffice to say that crossing has a fantastic view of the AZ 51 freeway.  Piestwa Peak has an awesome view of the entirety of AZ 51, I have a crap ton of pictures from up there when I would finish a morning climb. 

Sonic99

I remember way back when I was a kid and the Phoenix highway system was taking shape that the names seemed to be used pretty frequently.

I-17 north of the Stack with I-10 is the Black Canyon Freeway
I-10 west of the Stack is the Papago Freeway
Early versions of the 202 from the mini-stack over to the 143 had Papago for a while, but that kinda went away.
202 from the 143 all the way out to the 60/Superstition interchange is the Red Mountain Freeway
202 from the 60 interchange back around to I-10 in Chandler is the Santan Freeway
101 from the 202 in Chandler up to the 202 in Tempe is the Price Freeway, but I'm not sure how much that is used anymore.
101 north of the 202/Tempe interchange all the way up to I-17 in north Phoenix is the Pima Freeway
101 from 17 back around to I-10 in the west valley is the Agua Fria.
51 is the Piestewa Freeway, used to be Squaw Peak Parkway named controversially as many Native Americans claim "Squaw" is a derogatory term for a woman.
60 from I-10 in Tempe all the way out to Apache Junction is the Superstition Freeway.

By the way, the reason the 51 was originally called "Parkway" was that the first few miles were built by the City of Phoenix, not MAG or ADOT and was 2 lanes each way I believe, more in a "parkway" style even though it was only accessible from ramps. I remember they had some very "bold" signage using non-Federal fonts in the early days. I think the section from the 10/202 up to around Glendale was built by Phoenix, and then ceded to ADOT who continued it further north.

As for the 202 South Mountain/Ed Pastor, I think ultimately it will come down to how much each term is used once it opens. If traffic reporters regularly use "202 Pastor Freeway" in their reports, it will catch on with the public. I think that's why the older terms have "stuck" a bit better than the new ones. People who have been around Phoenix since the early days of the Phoenix freeway system have had those names used regularly in traffic reports for 30 years. Whereas the "Bob Stump" name on the 303 is really new and not really used in the media, instead usually just called "the 303." But names like Black Canyon, Papago, Pima, Agua Fria, Red Mountain, and Santan have been so well established for so long, they've just become "natural" to a lot of the general public.
If you used to draw freeways on your homework and got reprimanded by your Senior English teacher for doing so, you might be a road geek!

Roadwarriors79

#368
Driving video of the newest segment of Loop 202:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGRpocvvJJc

JoePCool14

Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on December 04, 2019, 12:57:51 PM
Driving video of the newest segment of Loop 202:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGRpocvvJJc

Amazing. Brand new freeway, 4 lanes in each direction, little traffic, and no tolls. Completely unheard of nowadays in Chicagoland.

:) Needs more... :sombrero: Not quite... :bigass: Perfect.
JDOT: We make the world a better place to drive.
Travel Mapping | 60+ Clinches | 260+ Traveled | 8000+ Miles Logged

jakeroot

Quote from: JoePCool14 on December 04, 2019, 10:38:31 PM
Completely unheard of nowadays in Chicagoland.

To be fair, the two cities are distantly related at best.

ztonyg

Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on December 04, 2019, 12:57:51 PM
Driving video of the newest segment of Loop 202:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGRpocvvJJc

Wow. I wasn't aware that the Loop 202 was completed (and open) that far.

JoePCool14

Quote from: jakeroot on December 04, 2019, 11:27:24 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on December 04, 2019, 10:38:31 PM
Completely unheard of nowadays in Chicagoland.

To be fair, the two cities are distantly related at best.

That's true, but it doesn't mean we couldn't use more expressways.

:) Needs more... :sombrero: Not quite... :bigass: Perfect.
JDOT: We make the world a better place to drive.
Travel Mapping | 60+ Clinches | 260+ Traveled | 8000+ Miles Logged

Mark68

This whole discussion reminds me of the old Steven Wright joke about driving on a parkway and parking on a driveway...
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it."~Yogi Berra

jakeroot

Quote from: JoePCool14 on December 05, 2019, 09:17:25 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on December 04, 2019, 11:27:24 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on December 04, 2019, 10:38:31 PM
Completely unheard of nowadays in Chicagoland.

To be fair, the two cities are distantly related at best.

That's true, but it doesn't mean we couldn't use more expressways.

Perhaps, yes. Just that the political climate (and geographic climate) makes expressway construction quicker, cheaper, and easier in Phoenix than almost anywhere else in the country.



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