Driving back north from San Diego the other day, I noticed that large signs along the 5 have changing control cities. Through San Diego County, the control city for the north 5 is signed as Los Angeles. Upon entering Orange County, there are signs for both Los Angeles on some, and Santa Ana on other signs as the control city. By the time you reach the Orange Crush, it's pretty much all Los Angeles, but it's interesting that there are changes along the route. You think it'd be signed as one control city from SD to LA.
I-95 South of Jacksonville used to have Jacksonville and Miami. Now the new signs have Daytona Beach as the control city ( i guess because of the Junction with I-4.) And South of Daytona the SB control is West Palm Beach on new signs.
I seem to recall that signs on I-70 eastbound in Maryland alternate between Baltimore and Washington as the control city (I-270 splits off at Frederick to go south to the DC Beltway while I-70 continues east to the Baltimore area). I haven't been on there since January and I wasn't particularly paying attention to the signs at the time.
EB SR 71 in Texas between Austin and the airport alternates control cities between Bastrop and the airport.
Not sure if this counts as there is a state line involved, but I-95 northbound's control city in Maryland is New York, but once you enter Delaware, it changes to Wilmington and on some signs, Philadelphia.
ODOT used to sign I-70 westbound's control city west of Columbus as Indianapolis. A decade ago they switched it to Dayton instead (and patched/replaced many signs accordingly), but there are still a handful of "Indianapolis" signs in use.
QuoteNot sure if this counts as there is a state line involved, but I-95 northbound's control city in Maryland is New York, but once you enter Delaware, it changes to Wilmington and on some signs, Philadelphia.
Sure it counts! Sounds similar to the 5 changing from Santa Ana back to Los Angeles as you get further into Orange County that I originally posted.
Another interesting control city this thread has reminded me of was Houston. The control city "Downtown". I suppose that makes sense given the very wide area Houston covers.
While Interstate 80 from about North Highlands west to the Bay Bridge has "San Francisco" as its primary westbound control city, there are times in the East Bay when Oakland takes precedence - particularly at onramps in Contra Costa County.
I-65 north in Alabama used to consistently use Nashville as a control city, but since I-565 has been completed, newer signs say Huntsville, but there are some signs that remain that still use Nashville, especially in Morgan County. A similar thing occurs along I-65 south in Tennessee. The control city is Huntsville, but all mileage signs list Birmingham in lieu of Huntsville.
Future I-22 west in Alabama uses several control cities. It uses Jasper (and sometimes Memphis) between Birmingham and Jasper, then it switches to Tupelo around Jasper, then east of Carbon Hill the control city is Hamilton, then north of Winfield it revers to Tupelo. Annoys the heck out of me. They should use either Memphis or Tupelo.
I-20 in east Texas flip flops too. In Dallas, it used to be signed Shreveport and Tyler, but 20 doesn't go directly thru Tyler so I think that's why it was removed. Shreveport really is the next big city that has more than about 3 exits on the interstate. However on many of the destination signs from exits merging on, the signs show Longview rather than Shreveport.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on October 06, 2011, 11:11:55 PM
QuoteNot sure if this counts as there is a state line involved, but I-95 northbound's control city in Maryland is New York, but once you enter Delaware, it changes to Wilmington and on some signs, Philadelphia.
Sure it counts! Sounds similar to the 5 changing from Santa Ana back to Los Angeles as you get further into Orange County that I originally posted.
Jacksonville used downtown as a control city inside the Beltway(295/9A) --- no one calls it the Beltway yet-- It seems the newer installations ON I-95 use Daytona Beach/Savannah once you are inside of 295
Another interesting control city this thread has reminded me of was Houston. The control city "Downtown". I suppose that makes sense given the very wide area Houston covers.
Quote from: codyg1985 on October 07, 2011, 07:09:39 AM
I-65 north in Alabama used to consistently use Nashville as a control city, but since I-565 has been completed, newer signs say Huntsville, but there are some signs that remain that still use Nashville, especially in Morgan County. A similar thing occurs along I-65 south in Tennessee. The control city is Huntsville, but all mileage signs list Birmingham in lieu of Huntsville.
I never understood that one. Huntsville is far enough off of I-65 that it seems strange to use it for a control city. I remember when all of the signs for I-65 South in Nashville said Birmingham, but sometime around the late 90s they changed them to Huntsville.
One place I know of where the control cities change in a short distance for no apparent reason is on I-44 in Springfield, MO. Eastbound, the pull through signage at the Glenstone Ave. exit(Exit 80) says "I-44 East Rolla". Yet just 2 miles further down the road at US 65, the pull through signage says "I-44 East St. Louis". A similar change occurs westbound. At US 65, the pull through signage for I-44 West says "I-44 West Tulsa". Yet at the Glenstone Ave. exit the pull-through signs say "I-44 West Joplin". They changed the westbound sign for I-44 on US 65 too when they added the flyover ramp to westbound I-44 a few years ago. The sign for I-44 East on US 65 still says St. Louis, but they changed the westbound sign from Tulsa to Joplin.
I-80 in Illinois does some flip-flopping from Iowa (newer) to Des Moines (older) and from Indiana (newer) to Toledo (older).
Quote from: huskeroadgeek on October 07, 2011, 04:05:12 PM
One place I know of where the control cities change in a short distance for no apparent reason is on I-44 in Springfield, MO. Eastbound, the pull through signage at the Glenstone Ave. exit(Exit 80) says "I-44 East Rolla". Yet just 2 miles further down the road at US 65, the pull through signage says "I-44 East St. Louis". A similar change occurs westbound. At US 65, the pull through signage for I-44 West says "I-44 West Tulsa". Yet at the Glenstone Ave. exit the pull-through signs say "I-44 West Joplin". They changed the westbound sign for I-44 on US 65 too when they added the flyover ramp to westbound I-44 a few years ago. The sign for I-44 East on US 65 still says St. Louis, but they changed the westbound sign from Tulsa to Joplin.
The reason for this might be because US 65 is where Branson traffic feeds into the Interstate system, so they think longer distance control cities would be more useful for out of towners?
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 07, 2011, 10:40:14 PM
Quote from: huskeroadgeek on October 07, 2011, 04:05:12 PM
One place I know of where the control cities change in a short distance for no apparent reason is on I-44 in Springfield, MO. Eastbound, the pull through signage at the Glenstone Ave. exit(Exit 80) says "I-44 East Rolla". Yet just 2 miles further down the road at US 65, the pull through signage says "I-44 East St. Louis". A similar change occurs westbound. At US 65, the pull through signage for I-44 West says "I-44 West Tulsa". Yet at the Glenstone Ave. exit the pull-through signs say "I-44 West Joplin". They changed the westbound sign for I-44 on US 65 too when they added the flyover ramp to westbound I-44 a few years ago. The sign for I-44 East on US 65 still says St. Louis, but they changed the westbound sign from Tulsa to Joplin.
The reason for this might be because US 65 is where Branson traffic feeds into the Interstate system, so they think longer distance control cities would be more useful for out of towners?
You're right-I hadn't thought about that aspect of it. But then again, I wonder why they changed the westbound sign from Tulsa to Joplin when they built the flyover ramp.
I-95 between Rocky Mount, NC and Fayetteville, NC has many control cities along there.
NB you have Dunn, Benson, Smithfield, Wilson, Rocky Mount, and Richmond (Virginia) are used in different places.
SB uses Wilson, Smithfield, Benson, Dunn, and finally Fayetteville south of Dunn where it stays exclusive until the I-95 Business into Fayetteville.
I-40 near Asheville, NC uses Hickory on I-26 and further east uses Statesville on I-240 (east end) and Black Mountain from the Tunnel Road connector on the far east end of Asheville.
Newark and New York are both used at different places for I-78 Eastbound throughout New Jersey. At Exit 3 in Still Valley, NJ the ramp to EB I-78 from US 22 and NJ 173 uses New York, but the pull through on I-78 EB at Exit 3 uses Newark. Interestingly, the two different signs were erected by the same contractor during the same project. Then again, New Jersey was never to sign control cities at interstate on ramps originally, so this is something at least.
I-10 between Tallahassee, FL and Lake City, FL uses either Lake City or Jacksonville as an EB control point for I-10.
On US 441 at both ends of Lake City, FL it uses Live Oak as control city for WB I-10 and Alachua for SB I-75 where both are the sequential next cities along the respected routes where pull through and official FHWA uses Tallahassee for I-10 and Tampa for I-75.
On US 13 south through the Delmarva, control cities seem to alternate between Norfolk, Hampton, and every other city in the Hampton Roads region (Portsmouth, Newport News, think I even saw Chesapeake on there...), in addition to usually listing the CBBT.
Victoria, Texas: On US 77 southbound, the original control city correctly indicated Brownsville as the control city at the junction with US 59 back in the 1980's. Sometime during the 1990's, the control city was changed to Corpus Christi, even though US 77 passes just 14 miles west of the city. The original mileage sign on SB US 77 still standing today in Victoria still indicates Brownsville being 229 miles away.
Elsewhere in Indiana, I can think of US 41 where control cities change throughout, alhtough I'm not sure of the reasons. South of I-70, Evansville is the prodominate control city, although mileage signs don't mention it until after Vincennes. Likewise, in Evansville, Vincennes is the control city and Terre Haute doesn't get mentioned on a BGS until Vincennes. Although in Princeton the exit at SR 64 has Terre Haute and Evansville while another one as Vincennes and Evansville. North of Terre Haute on SR 63, which serves as the default highway for 41 through traffic, Chicago and Evansville are the main control cities and even from as far north as Kentland back on US 41, Evansville makes an apperance on distance signs, while Chicago makes its first apperance north of I-64. And, once you get north of Kentland, the only control city you'll see going south is Terre Haute and going north is Hammond, not Chicago. Except for the 4-lane section of SR 63 which keeps Chicago and Evansville as the main control cities there seems to be little consistancy on other parts of the route.
Now that I think of it, US 30 is another example. The mileage signs usually just mention the next major town from Fort Wayne out toward Warsaw, after that Valparaiso gets its first mention.Going east, Fort Wayne at least gets mention from as far west as Lake County. But unlike Ohio, Chicago never gets mentioned, even though a lot of the traffic going west on 30 are heading there. On the BGSs, you'll get Fort Wayne, Columbia City, Warsaw, Plymouth, and Valpo all on various signs. US 31 at least seems to keep South Bend and Indianapolis on their signs for now, although with new bypasses being built along that route that may change, I have seen some sign diagrams that indicate that Kokomo will be the control city down in Hamilton County.
Quote from: codyg1985 on October 07, 2011, 07:09:39 AM
I-65 north in Alabama used to consistently use Nashville as a control city, but since I-565 has been completed, newer signs say Huntsville, but there are some signs that remain that still use Nashville
Like this example:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs761.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fxx260%2Fjdbarnes1234%2F100_0444.jpg&hash=6c226e24df5d605439268cf91dd2b4018f06458e)
In New Jersey on NJ 17, Newark is used as primary control city for that route going southbound all the way from the NY State Line (Except on I-287 where Mahwah is used for NJ 17 where the two routes split). The thing is that NJ 17 does not go there, you have to use two other roads, or simply use the local streets after NJ 17 ends. NJ 17 becomes Kearney Avenue and then 4th Street to then become Jackson Street in Newark after many lights. Northbound is different however!
Rutherford is used on NJ 3 for NJ 17 NB. Then Paramus is used on US 46, Rochelle Park and Paramus are both used on I-80 WB and then either Suffern or Mahwah are used north of I-80. At one time, only Suffern was used as a primary NB control city until the 80's included that as well. North of Ramsey, the NY Thruway (denoted "Thruway") is used at all ramps there and still is now cause Mahwah is reached at that point.
On I-295 in South Jersey going NB, Trenton or Camden is used on ramp and pull through signs, yet Ewing is used as the primary control city on mileage signs with no mention of Camden or Trenton at all. Some even use Yardley, PA as a control point north of Burlington. I-295 does not go there, but continuing I-95 SB does, and at one time I-295 was slated to go into PA, but now I-195 will go there once the PA Turnpike and I-95 interchange is completed. Going SB the Delaware Memorial Bridge is used on ramp and pull through signs, but Pennsville is used on mileage signs there.
NJ 23 in North Jersey uses for NB Butler, Hamburg, and Sussex alternatively while SB uses Butler and Newark mostly from the NY border to Butler with some using Paterson and New York where NJ 23 strattles the West Milford- Kinnelon boundary. South of Butler it changes to Riverdale- Wayne for I-287 and Little Falls and Newark at other places. Originally Little Falls was not used and Singac was used instead, but was changed in the mid 80's. South of US 46 Verona is used where Newark is now dropped, even though CR 506 and CR 506 SPUR are the way into Newark from NJ 23 from its end. However, Verona is used as control city on mileage signs from I-84 and only Butler makes it on those signs from the guide signs elsewhere.
I-78 Westbound in Central Jersey uses Clinton, Phillipsburg, and Easton at various places across the state.
In Miami-Dade county Florida, the I-95 north control keeps chaging between West Palm Beach and Ft. Lauderdale.
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 07, 2011, 10:40:14 PM
Quote from: huskeroadgeek on October 07, 2011, 04:05:12 PM
One place I know of where the control cities change in a short distance for no apparent reason is on I-44 in Springfield, MO. Eastbound, the pull through signage at the Glenstone Ave. exit(Exit 80) says "I-44 East Rolla". Yet just 2 miles further down the road at US 65, the pull through signage says "I-44 East St. Louis". A similar change occurs westbound. At US 65, the pull through signage for I-44 West says "I-44 West Tulsa". Yet at the Glenstone Ave. exit the pull-through signs say "I-44 West Joplin". They changed the westbound sign for I-44 on US 65 too when they added the flyover ramp to westbound I-44 a few years ago. The sign for I-44 East on US 65 still says St. Louis, but they changed the westbound sign from Tulsa to Joplin.
The reason for this might be because US 65 is where Branson traffic feeds into the Interstate system, so they think longer distance control cities would be more useful for out of towners?
Almost sounds like a MoDOT error involving mixing primary and secondary control cities - with primary for I-44 at Springfield being St. Louis and Tulsa, secondary being Joplin and either Rolla or Lebanon (I think the latter pops up now on signs for entrances).
Drove 76 and 80 from Philadelphia to the far side of Cleveland yesterday (en route to Chicago and southern Wisconsin). As I passed the bump near Youngstown, I looked back at eastbound signage. Unless I missed it, New York doesn't appear for 80 east. I thought it did.
Also, slightly off topic perhaps: the control cities for I-71 on the Turnpike westbound are Cleveland and Strongsville. Given Ohio's control-city habits (which I approve highly of), I would have expected Cleveland and Columbus. Looked back again at the eastbound side and it is Cleveland and Columbus eastbound. Why doesn't Columbus rate a mention westbound - are they assuming everyone would have used 76 or something?
The biggest changes seem to happen when you go from a state that uses larger control cities to a state with smaller control cities that change more often (or vice-versa.)
On I-5 in California north of Redding, the control city is Portland. Once you cross the Oregon state line, it changes to Ashland, and doesn't revert back to Portland until you get to Salem (250 miles and 7 control cities later!)
On I-95 in Maine south of Kittery, the control "points" are New Hampshire & Massachusetts. Just over the ME/NH state line, the control cities change to Hampton & Boston.
Another curious but slightly different situation is where a control city appears in only one direction of a highway that passes through it. It seems like this is done to differentiate the major destinations within a metropolitan area versus more distant destinations with statewide (or inter-state) significance.
For example, on US-101 heading south from San Francisco, the control city is San Jose, but San Jose never appears as a control city in the northbound direction. SF remains the northbound control city all the way from Ventura north. Similarly, Ventura is the control city on US-101 northbound from Los Angeles, but Ventura never appears in the southbound direction. LA is the control city all the way south from San Jose.
Quote from: 2Co5_14 on October 16, 2011, 12:02:34 AM
For example, on US-101 heading south from San Francisco, the control city is San Jose, but San Jose never appears as a control city in the northbound direction. SF remains the northbound control city all the way from Ventura north. Similarly, Ventura is the control city on US-101 northbound from Los Angeles, but Ventura never appears in the southbound direction. LA is the control city all the way south from San Jose.
They're actually both used in the opposite directions, just as secondary cities to either SF or LA. Northbound, San Jose is used with San Francisco from Salinas north; southbound, Ventura is used with Los Angeles from Santa Barbara south. Salinas, San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara are used in the same manner.
Quote from: DTComposer on October 16, 2011, 12:50:42 AM
Quote from: 2Co5_14 on October 16, 2011, 12:02:34 AM
For example, on US-101 heading south from San Francisco, the control city is San Jose, but San Jose never appears as a control city in the northbound direction. SF remains the northbound control city all the way from Ventura north. Similarly, Ventura is the control city on US-101 northbound from Los Angeles, but Ventura never appears in the southbound direction. LA is the control city all the way south from San Jose.
They're actually both used in the opposite directions, just as secondary cities to either SF or LA. Northbound, San Jose is used with San Francisco from Salinas north; southbound, Ventura is used with Los Angeles from Santa Barbara south. Salinas, San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara are used in the same manner.
The "secondary cities" you mentioned appear as the intermediate destination on the mileage signs at various intervals along the highway. The "control cities" I was referring to are the ones that appear on directional signs, pull-through signs, and the bottom line of the mileage signs.
Quote from: 2Co5_14 on October 16, 2011, 01:58:06 PM
The "secondary cities" you mentioned appear as the intermediate destination on the mileage signs at various intervals along the highway. The "control cities" I was referring to are the ones that appear on directional signs, pull-through signs, and the bottom line of the mileage signs.
While you are correct in that they don't appear on the bottom line of mileage signs, they do appear on pull-through signs and directional signs. Some examples:
Along US-101:
http://tinyurl.com/3zjfpm9
http://tinyurl.com/3mzeq7l
http://tinyurl.com/3pf754k
http://tinyurl.com/3ojn58t
Approaching US-101 from CA-1:
http://tinyurl.com/4yc5wz7
Approaching US-101 from CA-156:
http://tinyurl.com/3oyckjw
Quote from: 2Co5_14 on October 16, 2011, 12:02:34 AM
Another curious but slightly different situation is where a control city appears in only one direction of a highway that passes through it. It seems like this is done to differentiate the major destinations within a metropolitan area versus more distant destinations with statewide (or inter-state) significance.
Yeah in DFW heading north on 35E and 35W, the control city is Denton. There are plenty of suburbs before reaching Denton that are larger, and Oklahoma City is the control city north of there, but I'm sure that Denton was chosen because it's where both 35's meet. No mention of it southbound. I wonder if Waco is the same way coming north of Austin
On I-95 in Maine south of Kittery, the control "points" are New Hampshire & Massachusetts. Just over the ME/NH state line, the control cities change to Hampton & Boston.
Another curious but slightly different situation is where a control city appears in only one direction of a highway that passes through it. It seems like this is done to differentiate the major destinations within a metropolitan area versus more distant destinations with statewide (or inter-state) significance.
[/quote]
Quote from: Michael in Philly on October 15, 2011, 07:34:04 AM
Drove 76 and 80 from Philadelphia to the far side of Cleveland yesterday (en route to Chicago and southern Wisconsin). As I passed the bump near Youngstown, I looked back at eastbound signage. Unless I missed it, New York doesn't appear for 80 east. I thought it did.
Unless they changed the control cities after the rehab/widening of I-80, the only places on the mainline I-80 where "New York City" was mentioned on overhead BGSs was at I-680/SR-11 and on I-76 East before the Turnpike Trade with I-80 East (There may have been one or two mileage signs on the side as well).
On the BGSs for all of the on-ramps to I-80 East across it's entire non-toll run in Ohio, it was always "New York" or "New York City", at least as of 5 years ago.
Quote
Also, slightly off topic perhaps: the control cities for I-71 on the Turnpike westbound are Cleveland and Strongsville. Given Ohio's control-city habits (which I approve highly of), I would have expected Cleveland and Columbus. Looked back again at the eastbound side and it is Cleveland and Columbus eastbound. Why doesn't Columbus rate a mention westbound - are they assuming everyone would have used 76 or something?
This goes back about 10 years ago when they made some BGS upgrades as a result of adding the 3rd lane. Prior to the upgrade, all the overhead BGSs just said I-71/US-42, with the side posted signs saying Cleveland & Strongsville.
Once the upgrade was complete, the Westbound BGSs kept both the I-71 and US-42 shields and the Strongsville control city. Meanwhile, on the Eastbound side, The BGS's eliminated the US-42 shield (putting the US-42 info on a separate secondary sign), kept the I-71 shield only and swapped out Strongsville for Columbus.
What make's it even dumber, is the eastbound use of Columbus, since if you are coming from, say Indiana, you would be getting off the Turnpike
well before I-71 if you were Columbus-bound (more likely I-75 in Toledo). Hell, If I were in N. Ridgeville (the exit prior to I-71) and were heading to Columbus, I'd be using either SR-83 or SR-301 South to I-71 -- just as fast and shorter mileage. Columbus should be used on the Westbound BGSs, if at all.
To my knowledge, Columbus is not mentioned at all on the westbound mainline turnpike, yet more Columbus-bound drivers would be coming from the east on the Turnpike to I-71 than the west.
Quote from: thenetwork on October 19, 2011, 10:19:01 PM
Quote
Also, slightly off topic perhaps: the control cities for I-71 on the Turnpike westbound are Cleveland and Strongsville. Given Ohio's control-city habits (which I approve highly of), I would have expected Cleveland and Columbus. Looked back again at the eastbound side and it is Cleveland and Columbus eastbound. Why doesn't Columbus rate a mention westbound - are they assuming everyone would have used 76 or something?
This goes back about 10 years ago when they made some BGS upgrades as a result of adding the 3rd lane. Prior to the upgrade, all the overhead BGSs just said I-71/US-42, with the side posted signs saying Cleveland & Strongsville.
Once the upgrade was complete, the Westbound BGSs kept both the I-71 and US-42 shields and the Strongsville control city. Meanwhile, on the Eastbound side, The BGS's eliminated the US-42 shield (putting the US-42 info on a separate secondary sign), kept the I-71 shield only and swapped out Strongsville for Columbus.
What make's it even dumber, is the eastbound use of Columbus, since if you are coming from, say Indiana, you would be getting off the Turnpike well before I-71 if you were Columbus-bound (more likely I-75 in Toledo). Hell, If I were in N. Ridgeville (the exit prior to I-71) and were heading to Columbus, I'd be using either SR-83 or SR-301 South to I-71 -- just as fast and shorter mileage. Columbus should be used on the Westbound BGSs, if at all.
To my knowledge, Columbus is not mentioned at all on the westbound mainline turnpike, yet more Columbus-bound drivers would be coming from the east on the Turnpike to I-71 than the west.
If you were WB on the Turnpike (between Youngstown and Cleveland) looking to go to Columbus, you'd be exiting at SR 8 or I-77, then head over to I-271 SB to I-71 for Columbus.
I drove from Cleveland to North Jersey today. There is indeed no signage for New York on the Turnpike, but on the ramp from the Turnpike eastbound to the toll-free segment of 80 eastbound, you can see below you to the left - on I-76 I assume - "New York City via Pennsylvania" for I-80.
More surprising, there is no indication whatsoever that the exit for 80 eastbound also accesses 76 westbound. None. Until you're through the tollbooth and presented with that choice. As I was approaching the exit, thinking, "that's strange," I was assuming they'd reconfigured it so that 80 east and 76 west were separate exits, and if I'd actually been trying to get to 76 west, I'd have been screwed.
I like Ohio's roads and signage, generally, but this seems a major, major fail. Are they assuming that no one going east on the Turnpike would be interested in turning west on 76?
Now, we all know about Pennsylvania's control-city issues on I-80. But the one that had me shaking my head was at the 80/81 junction. Hazleton is the control city for 80 east; Harrisburg for 81 south. I assume the justification for this is that there's one more exit on 80 that serves Hazleton (or at least has Hazleton as its southbound control city), but I'd think most people actually trying to get to Hazleton from the 80/81 junction would turn south on 81, since that will get you closer to the city than 80 will. So this makes no sense at all to me.
How about Harrisburg being used for I-81 Northbound in Maryland. Yet once across the PA Line it changes to Chambersburg and then Carlisle. Harrisburg is not used again until Carlisle.
I believe that a similar situation arises the other way as Roanoke, VA is used for I-81 Southbound in Maryland where it becomes Winchester at later points in WV and VA.
I-95 southbound south of Petersburg alternates between Rocky Mount (NC) and Emporia. There's also a Miami appearance at the I-85 split.
Quote from: Takumi on October 22, 2011, 10:25:51 PM
I-95 south of Petersburg alternates between Rocky Mount (NC) and Emporia. There's also a Miami appearance at the I-85 spilit.
From Rocky Mount, NC north on I-95 Richmond is used, but in VA it alternates from Petersburg and Richmond.
Quote from: roadman65 on October 22, 2011, 10:33:38 PM
From Rocky Mount, NC north on I-95 Richmond is used, but in VA it alternates from Petersburg and Richmond.
I figured that was the case northbound. I haven't been on I-95 south of Emporia for quite some time.
Quote from: Takumi on October 22, 2011, 10:43:54 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 22, 2011, 10:33:38 PM
From Rocky Mount, NC north on I-95 Richmond is used, but in VA it alternates from Petersburg and Richmond.
I figured that was the case northbound. I haven't been on I-95 south of Emporia for quite some time.
Southbound it is Rocky Mount from Emporia to Gold Rock, NC. South of there it gets confusing all the way to Dunn I believe. It has even changed over the years as at one time Wilson was a control city along with Smithfield at some places. When I-40 finally opened in the early 90's (maybe 89), Benson started being used in some places. Now on mileage signs from I-40 on NB I-95 Richmond is now being used on 3 destination signs.
Quote from: 2Co5_14 on October 16, 2011, 12:02:34 AMThe biggest changes seem to happen when you go from a state that uses larger control cities to a state with smaller control cities that change more often (or vice-versa.) On I-5 in California north of Redding, the control city is Portland. Once you cross the Oregon state line
I would just like to know why ODOT insists on using The Dalles (population, 12,500) as a control city instead of, say, Pendleton (which is a much more significant town) or Boise. I remember when the I-84 exit off of I-80 in Utah listed Portland, but today it's just Ogden.
Why is New Jersey using Easton, PA as a control city for I-78 WB instead of Allentown, PA. Allentown is Pennsylvania's third largest city and Easton is much smaller and not even in the top ten population of the Keystone State.
Plus, Easton only has one exit (two if you count US 22 in New Jersey) and is not near its Downtown area. Allentown has several exits and is the main city of the Lehigh Valley region.
At the I-80/25 interchange in Cheyenne, the old signage used to indicate Omaha for eastbound and Denver southbound. The new signage now uses Sidney eastbound and Ft. Collins southbound. The latter I understand but Sidney seems an unusual choice given the town only has a population around 6000 - it's probably the first significant town after entering Nebraska. Go a little more than twice the distance and you encounter North Platte, about four times the size of Sidney.
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on November 24, 2011, 01:06:53 PM
At the I-80/25 interchange in Cheyenne, the old signage used to indicate Omaha for eastbound and Denver southbound. The new signage now uses Sidney eastbound and Ft. Collins southbound. The latter I understand but Sidney seems an unusual choice given the town only has a population around 6000 - it's probably the first significant town after entering Nebraska. Go a little more than twice the distance and you encounter North Platte, about four times the size of Sidney.
Funny you mention this since I was at the Interchange just yesterday. Going east on 80, I also found it strange to use Sidney and not say North Platte, Kearney, Grand Island, Lincoln, or Omaha but once you leave the Cheyenne city limits, the mileage sign does indicate Omaha. I was also surprised that leaving eastbound from Utah into Wyoming, Cheyenne is only mentioned at the state line and then not again until just before Laramie.
https://goo.gl/maps/Tk4RvEETt8uNQq7m7
Why is Walt Whitman Bridge a pull through control on a route originating from where that particular bridge leads back to? Should be Williamstown- Atlantic City.
I-35 going north from Des Moines alternates between Minneapolis and St. Paul on the mileage signs after every exit. Pretty much the same distance.
Same deal on I-94 west of Minneapolis with the signs for Fargo and Moorhead.
How many control city threads have we had since 2011?
Quote from: 1 on April 14, 2021, 05:59:02 PM
How many control city threads have we had since 2011?
If you include all variants, its almost certainly greater than the number of replies to this thread (now 44), and possibly even as many as one per month since this thread was last posted to (112).
In the Madison area, I would sign Verona instead of Dodgeville for US-18/151 SWB at the Verona Road/Beltline interchange.
https://goo.gl/maps/m3UfFQ8R3tcw5H2B7
This one should be Indianapolis and not the state of Illinois for I-70 across the Stan Musial Bridge in St. Louis.
Quote from: bassoon1986 on October 19, 2011, 08:00:48 PM
Quote from: 2Co5_14 on October 16, 2011, 12:02:34 AM
Another curious but slightly different situation is where a control city appears in only one direction of a highway that passes through it. It seems like this is done to differentiate the major destinations within a metropolitan area versus more distant destinations with statewide (or inter-state) significance.
Yeah in DFW heading north on 35E and 35W, the control city is Denton. There are plenty of suburbs before reaching Denton that are larger, and Oklahoma City is the control city north of there, but I'm sure that Denton was chosen because it's where both 35's meet. No mention of it southbound. I wonder if Waco is the same way coming north of Austin
Denton is mentioned southbound on 35 on alternating signs as you cross the Red River. Ft Worth/Dallas are on alternating distance signs with Sanger/Denton near Gainesville. There is no mention of Denton in Oklahoma except for new distance signs south of Marietta. Fort Worth is not mentioned on any signs in Oklahoma on I-35, period.
As for signs coming out of Austin, the only Dallas sign I recall seeing south of Temple is a distance one on Toll 130 near Hutto. The alternating Ft Worth/Dallas distance signs don't begin in earnest until north of Waco.
Quote from: roadman65 on April 14, 2021, 10:34:44 AM
https://goo.gl/maps/Tk4RvEETt8uNQq7m7
Why is Walt Whitman Bridge a pull through control on a route originating from where that particular bridge leads back to? Should be Williamstown- Atlantic City.
if you're in downtown Camden and looking to head to the Walt, 676 is a decent way to go - I went that exact way quite a few times when heading to a Flyers game from class at Rutgers.
Quote from: 1 on April 14, 2021, 05:59:02 PM
How many control city threads have we had since 2011?
All we're missing is a thread where we list our favorite control cities threads.
Surprised no one mentioned I-95 South through RI. On most signs, New York is the control (with the occasional Warwick), but once you hit the CT border, the control becomes New London, then New Haven, before becoming N.Y. City again.
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 06, 2011, 11:03:24 AM
I seem to recall that signs on I-70 eastbound in Maryland alternate between Baltimore and Washington as the control city (I-270 splits off at Frederick to go south to the DC Beltway while I-70 continues east to the Baltimore area). I haven't been on there since January and I wasn't particularly paying attention to the signs at the time.
Both are really incorrect. Washington for obvious reasons, and as I-70 does not actually go to Baltimore it should say "Baltimore Beltway" to emphasize its incompleteness.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2021, 02:08:02 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 06, 2011, 11:03:24 AM
I seem to recall that signs on I-70 eastbound in Maryland alternate between Baltimore and Washington as the control city (I-270 splits off at Frederick to go south to the DC Beltway while I-70 continues east to the Baltimore area). I haven't been on there since January and I wasn't particularly paying attention to the signs at the time.
Both are really incorrect. Washington for obvious reasons, and as I-70 does not actually go to Baltimore it should say "Baltimore Beltway" to emphasize its incompleteness.
Not to be pedantic, but I-70 technically makes it into Baltimore city limits. Even if it didn't, there are plenty of other situations like I-80/Chicago where the highway doesn't enter the city limits themselves, but still serves the city.
Chris
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 16, 2021, 02:37:43 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2021, 02:08:02 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 06, 2011, 11:03:24 AM
I seem to recall that signs on I-70 eastbound in Maryland alternate between Baltimore and Washington as the control city (I-270 splits off at Frederick to go south to the DC Beltway while I-70 continues east to the Baltimore area). I haven't been on there since January and I wasn't particularly paying attention to the signs at the time.
Both are really incorrect. Washington for obvious reasons, and as I-70 does not actually go to Baltimore it should say "Baltimore Beltway" to emphasize its incompleteness.
Not to be pedantic, but I-70 technically makes it into Baltimore city limits. Even if it didn't, there are plenty of other situations like I-80/Chicago where the highway doesn't enter the city limits themselves, but still serves the city.
Chris
As long as it makes it into the metro area, it's fine for me. I-270 to DC used to be I-70S, which makes this case similar to Dallas-Ft Worth for I-35; two cities in the same MSA or CSA each served by a suffixed interstate. So DC on I-70 is good. I'm even fine with Las Vegas on I-70 WB west of Green River, as most traffic on I-70 WB past that point will turn onto I-15 south, which heads to Las Vegas, the next sizable city. Same case with Los Angeles on I-40 WB.
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 16, 2021, 02:37:43 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2021, 02:08:02 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 06, 2011, 11:03:24 AM
I seem to recall that signs on I-70 eastbound in Maryland alternate between Baltimore and Washington as the control city (I-270 splits off at Frederick to go south to the DC Beltway while I-70 continues east to the Baltimore area). I haven't been on there since January and I wasn't particularly paying attention to the signs at the time.
Both are really incorrect. Washington for obvious reasons, and as I-70 does not actually go to Baltimore it should say "Baltimore Beltway" to emphasize its incompleteness.
Not to be pedantic, but I-70 technically makes it into Baltimore city limits. Even if it didn't, there are plenty of other situations like I-80/Chicago where the highway doesn't enter the city limits themselves, but still serves the city.
Chris
I don't view the city limits as sufficient, it needs to serve the city in a meaningful sense. And it needs to bear the shame of its incompleteness.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2021, 02:55:50 PM
I don't view the city limits as sufficient, it needs to serve the city in a meaningful sense. And it needs to bear the shame of its incompleteness.
When I search Google Maps for directions from Frederick to downtown Baltimore, it has me taking I-70 to I-695. To me, that sounds like "serving the city in a meaningful sense". To me, it's really no different than–as |jayhawkco| pointed out–Chicago being the control city for I-80.
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 03:02:58 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2021, 02:55:50 PM
I don't view the city limits as sufficient, it needs to serve the city in a meaningful sense. And it needs to bear the shame of its incompleteness.
When I search Google Maps for directions from Frederick to downtown Baltimore, it has me taking I-70 to I-695. To me, that sounds like "serving the city in a meaningful sense". To me, it's really no different than–as |jayhawkco| pointed out–Chicago being the control city for I-80.
Agree. If the interstate is the route to use by which you would reach that city, it should count - even if that very route doesn't technically enter the city, it serves it. I-80 and Chicago is a great example. What? Are we supposed to not use Chicago as a control and post Gary and Joliet instead? Absurd. Same for I-70 to Baltimore. And I-80 to NYC (which it technically doesn't reach). And how about I-95 and Washington? It hasn't technically gone there in close to 50 years (and I don't count that 100 yard bit it passes through along the Potomac). But if you're driving to DC from Wlimington (DE or NC), you're going to take 95 at some point to reach it.
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 03:02:58 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2021, 02:55:50 PM
I don't view the city limits as sufficient, it needs to serve the city in a meaningful sense. And it needs to bear the shame of its incompleteness.
When I search Google Maps for directions from Frederick to downtown Baltimore, it has me taking I-70 to I-695. To me, that sounds like "serving the city in a meaningful sense". To me, it's really no different than–as |jayhawkco| pointed out–Chicago being the control city for I-80.
Nope, Google Maps has all kind of BS routing. I-70 was supposed to go into the center of Baltimore, it does not, therefore it needs to bear the designation of Baltimore Beltway or something equally shameful. When it is completed then it can be a real interstate and get a sensible control city.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2021, 04:13:17 PM
I-70 was supposed to go into the center of Baltimore, it does not, therefore it needs to bear the designation of Baltimore Beltway or something equally shameful. When it is completed then it can be a real interstate and get a sensible control city.
I'm pretty sure control cities are supposed to be chosen as a navigational aid–not as a way of throwing a public hissy fit about something not turning out the way it was intended.
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 04:22:48 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2021, 04:13:17 PM
I-70 was supposed to go into the center of Baltimore, it does not, therefore it needs to bear the designation of Baltimore Beltway or something equally shameful. When it is completed then it can be a real interstate and get a sensible control city.
I'm pretty sure control cities are supposed to be chosen as a navigational aid–not as a way of throwing a public hissy fit about something not turning out the way it was intended.
On the contrary, putting Baltimore on there to aid in navigation is deceptive, it conceals the fact that the motoring public was screwed out of the highway they were supposed to have. Every time I have to go to Baltimore I curse that stupid dead end.
Exit 154 off I-75 in Michigan which is the Zilwaukee exit has Bay City as the control city for NB I-75 anywhere else at that point MDOT uses Mackinac Bridge as the control city. I wish they'd just use one city and Bay City does not need to be used for a control city it's too close to Saginaw which is a bigger city. So what I'm saying is that this should say Mackinac Bridge not Bay City
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.4917527,-83.9230662,3a,15y,307.52h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sjJOPnNXVDGCSt4bbktyraA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DjJOPnNXVDGCSt4bbktyraA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D163.99373%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2021, 07:30:18 PM
On the contrary, putting Baltimore on there to aid in navigation is deceptive, it conceals the fact that the motoring public was screwed out of the highway they were supposed to have. Every time I have to go to Baltimore I curse that stupid dead end.
...which means, every time you go to Baltimore, you use that highway. Ergo, signing that highway for Baltimore is appropriate.
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 09:32:42 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2021, 07:30:18 PM
On the contrary, putting Baltimore on there to aid in navigation is deceptive, it conceals the fact that the motoring public was screwed out of the highway they were supposed to have. Every time I have to go to Baltimore I curse that stupid dead end.
...which means, every time you go to Baltimore, you use that highway. Ergo, signing that highway for Baltimore is appropriate.
And upon reaching I-695, Baltimore is signed for SB I-695 from I-70 to get you over to I-95 NB to downtown. Regardless, 70 still gets to you to the Baltimore metro area from the west (and similarly, I-270 gets you to the DC metro area from the northwest despite ending at I-495).
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2021, 07:30:18 PM
On the contrary, putting Baltimore on there to aid in navigation is deceptive, it conceals the fact that the motoring public was screwed out of the highway they were supposed to have. Every time I have to go to Baltimore I curse that stupid dead end.
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 09:32:42 PM
...which means, every time you go to Baltimore, you use that highway. Ergo, signing that highway for Baltimore is appropriate.
I was in total agreement until you gave this example. I've worked on many projects in Baltimore, visited many times, and have attended more games at Camden Yards than any other MLB stadium. Also worked on relocating tracks in Camden Yards as part of the stadium project. But as many times as I have used I-70 to catch the Baltimore Beltway (I-695), I've never used I-70 to go to Baltimore. Almost always somewhere further north, but one time I needed it as a traffic detour to get to BWI.
Mississippi has a weird tendency to list small cities as control cities within the state. I grew up just on the state line north of New Orleans along Interstate 55. In Louisiana the control cities are New Orleans–->Hammond––>Jackson.
But once in Mississippi it's New Orleans––>McComb––>Brookhaven––>Jackson––>Grenada–->Memphis. McComb and Brookhaven have maybe 10,000 people each.
Here in Texas I think that they need to change the control cities for the new interstate 69 because here in Houston the controls are Cleveland and Victoria. But Texas doesn't usually use smaller cities like those as control cities. Case in point- IH 10 using El Paso–>San Antonio–>Houston–>Beaumont–>lake Charles. It doesn't list Van Horn in San Antonio. So IH 69 should be Rio Grande Valley–->Corpus Christi–>Houston–Texarkana.
Quote from: Dirt Roads on April 16, 2021, 10:42:56 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2021, 07:30:18 PM
On the contrary, putting Baltimore on there to aid in navigation is deceptive, it conceals the fact that the motoring public was screwed out of the highway they were supposed to have. Every time I have to go to Baltimore I curse that stupid dead end.
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 09:32:42 PM
...which means, every time you go to Baltimore, you use that highway. Ergo, signing that highway for Baltimore is appropriate.
I was in total agreement until you gave this example. I've worked on many projects in Baltimore, visited many times, and have attended more games at Camden Yards than any other MLB stadium. Also worked on relocating tracks in Camden Yards as part of the stadium project. But as many times as I have used I-70 to catch the Baltimore Beltway (I-695), I've never used I-70 to go to Baltimore. Almost always somewhere further north, but one time I needed it as a traffic detour to get to BWI.
Nope, every time I use many highways, perhaps two of which say Baltimore, so using a highway to get somewhere does not determine the control city.
The determinant of the control city should be if the highway functionally goes there. I-70 does not functionally go to Baltimore, its a disgrace.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 17, 2021, 04:47:15 PM
Nope, every time I use many highways, perhaps two of which say Baltimore, so using a highway to get somewhere does not determine the control city.
The determinant of the control city should be if the highway functionally goes there. I-70 does not functionally go to Baltimore, its a disgrace.
Quote from: Dictionary.com
disgrace noun
- the loss of respect, honor, or esteem; ignominy; shame: the disgrace of criminals.
- a person, act, or thing that causes shame, reproach, or dishonor or is dishonorable or shameful.
- the state of being out of favor; exclusion from favor, confidence, or trust.
what
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 17, 2021, 05:02:57 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 17, 2021, 04:47:15 PM
Nope, every time I use many highways, perhaps two of which say Baltimore, so using a highway to get somewhere does not determine the control city.
The determinant of the control city should be if the highway functionally goes there. I-70 does not functionally go to Baltimore, its a disgrace.
Quote from: Dictionary.com
disgrace noun
- the loss of respect, honor, or esteem; ignominy; shame: the disgrace of criminals.
- a person, act, or thing that causes shame, reproach, or dishonor or is dishonorable or shameful.
- the state of being out of favor; exclusion from favor, confidence, or trust.
what
Second definition based on this previous post:
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2021, 04:13:17 PM
Nope, Google Maps has all kind of BS routing. I-70 was supposed to go into the center of Baltimore, it does not, therefore it needs to bear the designation of Baltimore Beltway or something equally shameful. When it is completed then it can be a real interstate and get a sensible control city.
Saying that putting "I-70 east–Baltimore" on a sign brings "shame, reproach, or dishonor or is dishonorable or shameful" is a hell of a stretch. Hope HighwayStar takes yoga classes.
A non-roadgeek has reported on OKCTalk that they saw a sign using Dallas of all things as a control city on the southbound Kansas Turnpike south of Wichita. I asked him for a more specific location so I could try and track it down, since I don't remember seeing that on my last trip through the area in November 2019.
J.N. or Kyle, do you know anything about this?
So HighwayStar, would you support getting rid of any mention of Pittsburgh on any 2di in the country? I-76 doesn't "functionally go there" . Neither does I-79.
I guess you can't use Saginaw for a control city on I-75 since I-75 doesn't actually enter the city of Saginaw. Perhaps Zilwaukee Bridge would be a good control city.
Also can't use "BWI Airport" on I-195 since it ends at MD 170 prior to reaching the airport terminal, or "Bay Bridge" on I-97 since US 50 is the one to actually reach the bridge.
VA 168, meanwhile, doesn't get anywhere close to "Outer Banks" !!!
(https://i.imgur.com/QXXmGA9.png)
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 17, 2021, 04:47:15 PM
Quote from: Dirt Roads on April 16, 2021, 10:42:56 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 16, 2021, 07:30:18 PM
On the contrary, putting Baltimore on there to aid in navigation is deceptive, it conceals the fact that the motoring public was screwed out of the highway they were supposed to have. Every time I have to go to Baltimore I curse that stupid dead end.
Quote from: kphoger on April 16, 2021, 09:32:42 PM
...which means, every time you go to Baltimore, you use that highway. Ergo, signing that highway for Baltimore is appropriate.
I was in total agreement until you gave this example. I've worked on many projects in Baltimore, visited many times, and have attended more games at Camden Yards than any other MLB stadium. Also worked on relocating tracks in Camden Yards as part of the stadium project. But as many times as I have used I-70 to catch the Baltimore Beltway (I-695), I've never used I-70 to go to Baltimore. Almost always somewhere further north, but one time I needed it as a traffic detour to get to BWI.
Nope, every time I use many highways, perhaps two of which say Baltimore, so using a highway to get somewhere does not determine the control city.
The determinant of the control city should be if the highway functionally goes there. I-70 does not functionally go to Baltimore, its a disgrace.
I-81 doesn't go to Knoxville.
For that matter, neither does I-75. I-75 bypasses downtown Knoxville and you use I-275 to continue on in to the central part of the city (but in its defense, I-275 used to be I-75 before I-75 was routed onto I-640). I'm not even sure that it enters the Chattanooga city limits, as you have to use I-24 to get to downtown. So using your logic, the control city south of Lexington should be Atlanta. And the control city for I-95 north of Richmond should be NYC since I-95 doesn't go to Washington, it circles it on the Beltway (yes, I know it clips the corner of the city/district on the WW Bridge).
I-70 functionally takes you to Baltimore, and that's what counts.
What other city on I-70 should be there other than Baltimore? Just about everyone on I-70 is heading to Baltimore if they are on the eastern end of the route.
Does changing cities on the signs that have the distance to multiple cities count? Just south of exit 202 on southbound I-75 they list Standish, Bay City and Flint mentioning Flint instead of Saginaw. Standish and Bay City makes sense but I don't understand why Flint is mentioned in Saginaw isn't.
Changing the top or middle line of a distance sign doesn't count (the MUTCD even advises that the middle line can be different on successive signs in order to provide information for different destinations), although those technically aren't control cities. Strictly speaking, on a distance sign, it is the bottom line that has the control city.
Flint is the control city after Saginaw, I'm just saying that Saginaw should be mentioned Flint is 87 miles from there. Saginaw is right around 50 miles.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 17, 2021, 07:59:08 PM
A non-roadgeek has reported on OKCTalk that they saw a sign using Dallas of all things as a control city on the southbound Kansas Turnpike south of Wichita. I asked him for a more specific location so I could try and track it down, since I don't remember seeing that on my last trip through the area in November 2019.
J.N. or Kyle, do you know anything about this?
I'm not aware of any, but...
1. I haven't been south of Exit #39 since 13 months ago.
2. I never use any of the exits between there and the Oklahoma line so, if it was at an on-ramp, then I wouldn't know anyway.
Quote from: kphoger on April 19, 2021, 02:40:10 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 17, 2021, 07:59:08 PM
A non-roadgeek has reported on OKCTalk that they saw a sign using Dallas of all things as a control city on the southbound Kansas Turnpike south of Wichita. I asked him for a more specific location so I could try and track it down, since I don't remember seeing that on my last trip through the area in November 2019.
J.N. or Kyle, do you know anything about this?
I'm not aware of any, but...
1. I haven't been south of Exit #39 since 13 months ago.
2. I never use any of the exits between there and the Oklahoma line so, if it was at an on-ramp, then I wouldn't know anyway.
I actually checked the Street View of most of the on-ramps just for fun on Friday, and didn't see any that mentioned Dallas. Could it be on a post-interchange mileage sign, possibly?
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 18, 2021, 07:07:15 AM
What other city on I-70 should be there other than Baltimore? Just about everyone on I-70 is heading to Baltimore if they are on the eastern end of the route.
That's fine, but since the highway does not go there it needs to say "Baltimore Beltway" or something to that effect.
Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 03:31:52 PM
Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.
No, because the highway does not actually serve Baltimore as intended, this needs to be reflected in the designation of control city. If they want it designated as such they need to actually finish the road (60+ years after the fact)
I might point out that even though I-70 dead-ends before downtown Baltimore (but just inside the city limits :)), there is still a continuously-signed route to Baltimore in terms of control cities:
-I-695 SB from I-70 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3070988,-76.7535295,3a,43y,110.29h,92.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siu7wC9klbqzs-6RkLN-HCQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en)
-Then, I-95 NB after a couple miles (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2539882,-76.6857609,3a,75y,128.74h,89.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_Jh7AXQG7SVmhyaH4vvh2Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en)
-And finally, the glorified ramp that is I-395!!! (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2687994,-76.6312579,3a,49.1y,106.21h,91.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKmg3gf5yhbsOpoDSoc0n2g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en) (And I-95 promptly changes to its next control city)
So it's not as though they leave you hanging (in terms of control cities) on how to get into Baltimore from the west upon reaching I-695.
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 19, 2021, 04:17:45 PM
I might point out that even though I-70 dead-ends before downtown Baltimore (but just inside the city limits :)), there is still a continuously-signed route to Baltimore in terms of control cities:
...
So it's not as though they leave you hanging (in terms of control cities) on how to get into Baltimore from the west upon reaching I-695.
Really no different - if anything perhaps even
less egregious - than
Rochester (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/I-390,+Rochester,+NY+14623/Rochester,+NY/@43.117263,-77.6223691,12.5z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d14ae72b89d807:0xe82bf30d473fbf48!2m2!1d-77.6018825!2d43.0944966!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d6b3059614b353:0x5a001ffc4125e61e!2m2!1d-77.6088465!2d43.1565779!3e0!5m1!1e1?hl=en)
being used on I-390 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0871043,-77.6054654,3a,75y,83.47h,83.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLUjvpk2dyHjk-0NuIjtmMA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en). Similar to I-70, I-390 was also supposed to extend northward and meet I-490 near downtown, but was canned due to local opposition.
Not a big deal: of course you're going to have to figure out your way to downtown once you get close, unless the freeway is some sort of super-freeway that lands you right at the exact intersection at the exact center of town.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 03:31:52 PM
Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.
No, because the highway does not actually serve Baltimore as intended, this needs to be reflected in the designation of control city. If they want it designated as such they need to actually finish the road (60+ years after the fact)
Just like you had for most of I-70's journey across the country US-40 serves Baltimore as well as I-70 serving Baltimore. The bottom line is that I-70 takes you to a point where you can get to Baltimore, it doesn't go any further east.
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 08:25:43 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 03:31:52 PM
Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.
No, because the highway does not actually serve Baltimore as intended, this needs to be reflected in the designation of control city. If they want it designated as such they need to actually finish the road (60+ years after the fact)
Just like you had for most of I-70's journey across the country US-40 serves Baltimore as well as I-70 serving Baltimore. The bottom line is that I-70 takes you to a point where you can get to Baltimore, it doesn't go any further east.
Yes but taking you to a point where you can get somewhere is not the same as going to that somewhere. It needs to say Baltimore Beltway, which is what it is.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 09:54:12 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 08:25:43 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 03:31:52 PM
Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.
No, because the highway does not actually serve Baltimore as intended, this needs to be reflected in the designation of control city. If they want it designated as such they need to actually finish the road (60+ years after the fact)
Just like you had for most of I-70's journey across the country US-40 serves Baltimore as well as I-70 serving Baltimore. The bottom line is that I-70 takes you to a point where you can get to Baltimore, it doesn't go any further east.
Yes but taking you to a point where you can get somewhere is not the same as going to that somewhere. It needs to say Baltimore Beltway, which is what it is.
It's okay to be wrong.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 19, 2021, 09:57:39 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 09:54:12 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 08:25:43 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 03:31:52 PM
Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.
No, because the highway does not actually serve Baltimore as intended, this needs to be reflected in the designation of control city. If they want it designated as such they need to actually finish the road (60+ years after the fact)
Just like you had for most of I-70's journey across the country US-40 serves Baltimore as well as I-70 serving Baltimore. The bottom line is that I-70 takes you to a point where you can get to Baltimore, it doesn't go any further east.
Yes but taking you to a point where you can get somewhere is not the same as going to that somewhere. It needs to say Baltimore Beltway, which is what it is.
It's okay to be wrong.
Sure, but I am not. I-70 was designed to go
into Baltimore to provide the intended level of service. It never did. So until they get out the shovels and
finish the job it cannot be properly said to go to Baltimore.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 10:04:07 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 19, 2021, 09:57:39 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 09:54:12 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 08:25:43 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 03:31:52 PM
Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.
No, because the highway does not actually serve Baltimore as intended, this needs to be reflected in the designation of control city. If they want it designated as such they need to actually finish the road (60+ years after the fact)
Just like you had for most of I-70's journey across the country US-40 serves Baltimore as well as I-70 serving Baltimore. The bottom line is that I-70 takes you to a point where you can get to Baltimore, it doesn't go any further east.
Yes but taking you to a point where you can get somewhere is not the same as going to that somewhere. It needs to say Baltimore Beltway, which is what it is.
It's okay to be wrong.
Sure, but I am not. I-70 was designed to go into Baltimore to provide the intended level of service. It never did. So until they get out the shovels and finish the job it cannot be properly said to go to Baltimore.
I don't see how I-70 doesn't get you to Baltimore.
Quote from: Rothman on April 19, 2021, 10:11:47 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 10:04:07 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 19, 2021, 09:57:39 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 09:54:12 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 08:25:43 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 03:31:52 PM
Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.
No, because the highway does not actually serve Baltimore as intended, this needs to be reflected in the designation of control city. If they want it designated as such they need to actually finish the road (60+ years after the fact)
Just like you had for most of I-70's journey across the country US-40 serves Baltimore as well as I-70 serving Baltimore. The bottom line is that I-70 takes you to a point where you can get to Baltimore, it doesn't go any further east.
Yes but taking you to a point where you can get somewhere is not the same as going to that somewhere. It needs to say Baltimore Beltway, which is what it is.
It's okay to be wrong.
Sure, but I am not. I-70 was designed to go into Baltimore to provide the intended level of service. It never did. So until they get out the shovels and finish the job it cannot be properly said to go to Baltimore.
I don't see how I-70 doesn't get you to Baltimore.
Because it dead ends into a parking lot? I would call that pretty useless. If you actually want to get to Baltimore you have to use another road.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 10:13:10 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 19, 2021, 10:11:47 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 10:04:07 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 19, 2021, 09:57:39 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 09:54:12 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 08:25:43 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 03:31:52 PM
Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.
No, because the highway does not actually serve Baltimore as intended, this needs to be reflected in the designation of control city. If they want it designated as such they need to actually finish the road (60+ years after the fact)
Just like you had for most of I-70's journey across the country US-40 serves Baltimore as well as I-70 serving Baltimore. The bottom line is that I-70 takes you to a point where you can get to Baltimore, it doesn't go any further east.
Yes but taking you to a point where you can get somewhere is not the same as going to that somewhere. It needs to say Baltimore Beltway, which is what it is.
It's okay to be wrong.
Sure, but I am not. I-70 was designed to go into Baltimore to provide the intended level of service. It never did. So until they get out the shovels and finish the job it cannot be properly said to go to Baltimore.
I don't see how I-70 doesn't get you to Baltimore.
Because it dead ends into a parking lot? I would call that pretty useless. If you actually want to get to Baltimore you have to use another road.
There's an interchange before the parking lot. Even then, not sure how else you'd get to Baltimore from the west.
Seems pretty silly to insist that a highway that gets you to within such a short distance of the city doesn't get you to the city.
Like someone else said, it's okay to be wrong.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 10:13:10 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 19, 2021, 10:11:47 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 10:04:07 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 19, 2021, 09:57:39 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 09:54:12 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 08:25:43 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 03:31:52 PM
Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.
No, because the highway does not actually serve Baltimore as intended, this needs to be reflected in the designation of control city. If they want it designated as such they need to actually finish the road (60+ years after the fact)
Just like you had for most of I-70's journey across the country US-40 serves Baltimore as well as I-70 serving Baltimore. The bottom line is that I-70 takes you to a point where you can get to Baltimore, it doesn't go any further east.
Yes but taking you to a point where you can get somewhere is not the same as going to that somewhere. It needs to say Baltimore Beltway, which is what it is.
It's okay to be wrong.
Sure, but I am not. I-70 was designed to go into Baltimore to provide the intended level of service. It never did. So until they get out the shovels and finish the job it cannot be properly said to go to Baltimore.
I don't see how I-70 doesn't get you to Baltimore.
Because it dead ends into a parking lot? I would call that pretty useless. If you actually want to get to Baltimore you have to use another road.
Should we not sign Boston on I-84 from I-91 exit in Hartford? It's the best way to get to Boston so it makes sense to sign it.
For that matter, should we not sign Boston on I-95? I-95 doesn't actually enter Boston at all nor does any of its 3dis.
British signage practice in cases where a road didn't actually reach the control city, but instead led to a road that did, used to be to put it in parenthesis, like "(Baltimore)".
They stopped doing this in 1994, probably because they realized nobody cares.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 10:13:10 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 19, 2021, 10:11:47 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 10:04:07 PM
... I-70 was designed to go into Baltimore to provide the intended level of service. It never did. So until they get out the shovels and finish the job it cannot be properly said to go to Baltimore.
I don't see how I-70 doesn't get you to Baltimore.
Because it dead ends into a parking lot? I would call that pretty useless. If you actually want to get to Baltimore you have to use another road.
Of course you have to use other roads to get to the city center. ↓ See quote below. ↓
Quote from: webny99 on April 19, 2021, 04:37:28 PM
Really no different - if anything perhaps even less egregious - than Rochester (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/I-390,+Rochester,+NY+14623/Rochester,+NY/@43.117263,-77.6223691,12.5z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d14ae72b89d807:0xe82bf30d473fbf48!2m2!1d-77.6018825!2d43.0944966!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d6b3059614b353:0x5a001ffc4125e61e!2m2!1d-77.6088465!2d43.1565779!3e0!5m1!1e1?hl=en) being used on I-390 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0871043,-77.6054654,3a,75y,83.47h,83.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLUjvpk2dyHjk-0NuIjtmMA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en). Similar to I-70, I-390 was also supposed to extend northward and meet I-490 near downtown, but was canned due to local opposition.
Not a big deal: of course you're going to have to figure out your way to downtown once you get close, unless the freeway is some sort of super-freeway that lands you right at the exact intersection at the exact center of town.
And there are countless other examples that could be mentioned, like Cleveland being used on I-80 and Denver being used I-76. If it gets you to the metro area, it's generally fine.
Well, NJ continues to sign Trenton and Camden as controls on the NJTP although it requires a 7 mile jog west on I-195 and NJ 29 to get to. Plus, it still uses Camden south of 7A despite the fact I-95 passes Camden on the other side of a major river and in another state.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 10:13:10 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 19, 2021, 10:11:47 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 10:04:07 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 19, 2021, 09:57:39 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 09:54:12 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 08:25:43 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 03:31:52 PM
Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.
No, because the highway does not actually serve Baltimore as intended, this needs to be reflected in the designation of control city. If they want it designated as such they need to actually finish the road (60+ years after the fact)
Just like you had for most of I-70's journey across the country US-40 serves Baltimore as well as I-70 serving Baltimore. The bottom line is that I-70 takes you to a point where you can get to Baltimore, it doesn't go any further east.
Yes but taking you to a point where you can get somewhere is not the same as going to that somewhere. It needs to say Baltimore Beltway, which is what it is.
It's okay to be wrong.
Sure, but I am not. I-70 was designed to go into Baltimore to provide the intended level of service. It never did. So until they get out the shovels and finish the job it cannot be properly said to go to Baltimore.
I don't see how I-70 doesn't get you to Baltimore.
Because it dead ends into a parking lot? I would call that pretty useless. If you actually want to get to Baltimore you have to use another road.
So what? You are already in the Baltimore area. Your reasoning for not using Baltimore is pretty lame because I-70 takes you to Baltimore. So what if you have to use another route to get there when you are already in the metro area? I-80 doesn't go to NYC but New York is the control city on I-80, you going to change that one too?
Quote from: webny99 on April 20, 2021, 08:12:03 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 10:13:10 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 19, 2021, 10:11:47 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 10:04:07 PM
... I-70 was designed to go into Baltimore to provide the intended level of service. It never did. So until they get out the shovels and finish the job it cannot be properly said to go to Baltimore.
I don't see how I-70 doesn't get you to Baltimore.
Because it dead ends into a parking lot? I would call that pretty useless. If you actually want to get to Baltimore you have to use another road.
Of course you have to use other roads to get to the city center. ↓ See quote below. ↓
Quote from: webny99 on April 19, 2021, 04:37:28 PM
Really no different - if anything perhaps even less egregious - than Rochester (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/I-390,+Rochester,+NY+14623/Rochester,+NY/@43.117263,-77.6223691,12.5z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d14ae72b89d807:0xe82bf30d473fbf48!2m2!1d-77.6018825!2d43.0944966!1m5!1m1!1s0x89d6b3059614b353:0x5a001ffc4125e61e!2m2!1d-77.6088465!2d43.1565779!3e0!5m1!1e1?hl=en) being used on I-390 (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0871043,-77.6054654,3a,75y,83.47h,83.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLUjvpk2dyHjk-0NuIjtmMA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en). Similar to I-70, I-390 was also supposed to extend northward and meet I-490 near downtown, but was canned due to local opposition.
Not a big deal: of course you're going to have to figure out your way to downtown once you get close, unless the freeway is some sort of super-freeway that lands you right at the exact intersection at the exact center of town.
And there are countless other examples that could be mentioned, like Cleveland being used on I-80 and Denver being used I-76. If it gets you to the metro area, it's generally fine.
I suppose he thinks Flint should be changed on I-275. That one was probably done when I-275 was still planning on ending up at I-75 on the north end. But you can still get to Flint via I-96 and US-23.
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on April 20, 2021, 08:25:55 AM
Well, NJ continues to sign Trenton and Camden as controls on the NJTP although it requires a 7 mile jog west on I-195 and NJ 29 to get to. Plus, it still uses Camden south of 7A despite the fact I-95 passes Camden on the other side of a major river and in another state.
Similarly, you technically have to use another road to reach any of the PATP's control cities:
-Ohio (Cleveland or Youngstown in a few isolated instances): OHTP (and I-480 or I-680, respectively)
-Pittsburgh: I-376, I-79/I-279, PA 28
-Harrisburg: I-81, US 15, I-83, I-283
-Philadelphia: I-76, I-476, PA 309, PA 611, US 1, I-95
-New Jersey: NJTP Pearl Harbor Extension
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 10:13:10 PM
If you actually want to get to Baltimore you have to use another road.
You mean like:
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 19, 2021, 04:17:45 PM
-I-695 SB from I-70 (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3070988,-76.7535295,3a,43y,110.29h,92.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siu7wC9klbqzs-6RkLN-HCQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en)
-Then, I-95 NB after a couple miles (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2539882,-76.6857609,3a,75y,128.74h,89.33t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_Jh7AXQG7SVmhyaH4vvh2Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en)
-And finally, the glorified ramp that is I-395!!! (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2687994,-76.6312579,3a,49.1y,106.21h,91.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKmg3gf5yhbsOpoDSoc0n2g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en) (And I-95 promptly changes to its next control city)
So it's not as though they leave you hanging (in terms of control cities) on how to get into Baltimore from the west upon reaching I-695.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 10:04:07 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 19, 2021, 09:57:39 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 09:54:12 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 08:25:43 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 03:31:52 PM
Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.
No, because the highway does not actually serve Baltimore as intended, this needs to be reflected in the designation of control city. If they want it designated as such they need to actually finish the road (60+ years after the fact)
Just like you had for most of I-70's journey across the country US-40 serves Baltimore as well as I-70 serving Baltimore. The bottom line is that I-70 takes you to a point where you can get to Baltimore, it doesn't go any further east.
Yes but taking you to a point where you can get somewhere is not the same as going to that somewhere. It needs to say Baltimore Beltway, which is what it is.
It's okay to be wrong.
Sure, but I am not. I-70 was designed to go into Baltimore to provide the intended level of service. It never did. So until they get out the shovels and finish the job it cannot be properly said to go to Baltimore.
You have a different idea for the purpose of a control city than pretty much everybody else. Your idea of a control city is where the road you are on physically goes. The consensus is that a control city is where the largest number of people on the road are headed.
I-65 north in Indiana goes to Gary. The problem is that very few of the people using I-65 are going to Gary. Letting people know that I-65 goes to Gary is accurate but not helpful. Letting people know that hopping on I-65 north is the best way to get to Chicago is much more helpful. This of course requires getting on another road, and as such needs to have that other road using Chicago as a control city so that people know when to get off I-65, but it's still a far more useful system than limiting control cities to places that the roads themselves go.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 09:54:12 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 08:25:43 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 03:31:52 PM
Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.
No, because the highway does not actually serve Baltimore as intended, this needs to be reflected in the designation of control city. If they want it designated as such they need to actually finish the road (60+ years after the fact)
Just like you had for most of I-70's journey across the country US-40 serves Baltimore as well as I-70 serving Baltimore. The bottom line is that I-70 takes you to a point where you can get to Baltimore, it doesn't go any further east.
Yes but taking you to a point where you can get somewhere is not the same as going to that somewhere. It needs to say Baltimore Beltway, which is what it is.
It's okay to be wrong.
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 20, 2021, 09:41:41 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 09:54:12 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 08:25:43 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 03:31:52 PM
Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.
No, because the highway does not actually serve Baltimore as intended, this needs to be reflected in the designation of control city. If they want it designated as such they need to actually finish the road (60+ years after the fact)
Just like you had for most of I-70's journey across the country US-40 serves Baltimore as well as I-70 serving Baltimore. The bottom line is that I-70 takes you to a point where you can get to Baltimore, it doesn't go any further east.
Yes but taking you to a point where you can get somewhere is not the same as going to that somewhere. It needs to say Baltimore Beltway, which is what it is.
It's okay to be wrong.
About SUVs too. :awesomeface:
Chris
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 20, 2021, 09:30:13 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 10:04:07 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 19, 2021, 09:57:39 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 09:54:12 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 08:25:43 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 03:31:52 PM
Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.
No, because the highway does not actually serve Baltimore as intended, this needs to be reflected in the designation of control city. If they want it designated as such they need to actually finish the road (60+ years after the fact)
Just like you had for most of I-70's journey across the country US-40 serves Baltimore as well as I-70 serving Baltimore. The bottom line is that I-70 takes you to a point where you can get to Baltimore, it doesn't go any further east.
Yes but taking you to a point where you can get somewhere is not the same as going to that somewhere. It needs to say Baltimore Beltway, which is what it is.
It's okay to be wrong.
Sure, but I am not. I-70 was designed to go into Baltimore to provide the intended level of service. It never did. So until they get out the shovels and finish the job it cannot be properly said to go to Baltimore.
You have a different idea for the purpose of a control city than pretty much everybody else. Your idea of a control city is where the road you are on physically goes. The consensus is that a control city is where the largest number of people on the road are headed.
I-65 north in Indiana goes to Gary. The problem is that very few of the people using I-65 are going to Gary. Letting people know that I-65 goes to Gary is accurate but not helpful. Letting people know that hopping on I-65 north is the best way to get to Chicago is much more helpful. This of course requires getting on another road, and as such needs to have that other road using Chicago as a control city so that people know when to get off I-65, but it's still a far more useful system than limiting control cities to places that the roads themselves go.
Right. I wonder what he thinks of IN-63. I remember a discussion we had last summer involving Chicago as the control city on NB IN-63 and I couldn't figure out why and that was simply because at the time I saw it I didn't know where IN-63 actually ended but then I saw it ended at US-41 which does take you to Chicago. It was NB IN-63 at the interchange with US-36. I saw it when I went to clinch Parke County.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7936658,-87.4091543,3a,24.2y,94.27h,115.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLaU3UjkwUefz03Vnh1OgGg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 20, 2021, 09:53:58 AM
Right. I wonder what he thinks of IN-63. I remember a discussion we had last summer involving Chicago as the control city on NB IN-63 and I couldn't figure out why and that was simply because at the time I saw it I didn't know where IN-63 actually ended but then I saw it ended at US-41 which does take you to Chicago. It was NB IN-63 at the interchange with US-36. I saw it when I went to clinch Parke County.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7936658,-87.4091543,3a,24.2y,94.27h,115.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLaU3UjkwUefz03Vnh1OgGg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664
At this point, you can expand this to any bypass route using a control city well beyond the point of the bypass ending and returning to the main route...another that comes to mind is I-295 VA, which uses Rocky Mount & Washington for I-95, and Charlottesville & Williamsburg/Norfolk/Virginia Beach for I-64.
The endpoint of I-70 is within Baltimore city limits, right? That should be good enough.
And it's more than can be said for I-795, which is also signed for Baltimore. Or I-97, which is also signed for Baltimore.
Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2021, 11:28:10 AM
The endpoint of I-70 is within Baltimore city limits, right? That should be good enough.
Just barely, but yes. (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3011486,-76.7114992,3a,75y,93.29h,87.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfbxnX1_AT3NFxUE7RMALgQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en)
Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2021, 11:28:10 AM
And it's more than can be said for I-795, which is also signed for Baltimore. Or I-97, which is also signed for Baltimore.
And, for that matter, signing Annapolis in the opposite direction of I-97.
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 20, 2021, 10:10:13 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 20, 2021, 09:53:58 AM
Right. I wonder what he thinks of IN-63. I remember a discussion we had last summer involving Chicago as the control city on NB IN-63 and I couldn't figure out why and that was simply because at the time I saw it I didn't know where IN-63 actually ended but then I saw it ended at US-41 which does take you to Chicago. It was NB IN-63 at the interchange with US-36. I saw it when I went to clinch Parke County.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7936658,-87.4091543,3a,24.2y,94.27h,115.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLaU3UjkwUefz03Vnh1OgGg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664
At this point, you can expand this to any bypass route using a control city well beyond the point of the bypass ending and returning to the main route...another that comes to mind is I-295 VA, which uses Rocky Mount & Washington for I-95, and Charlottesville & Williamsburg/Norfolk/Virginia Beach for I-64.
Yeah, those could probably even be their own thread. There's a lot: Salem and Seattle being used on I-205 in Portland, Toledo and Youngstown being used on I-480 in Cleveland, etc. etc.
Under this Control City theory, I-57 should use Sikeston for SB, not Memphis
When the Little Rock Extenstion is complete and signed, Little Rock then, maybe, someday
The STL Beltway of 255 and 270 need to remove their Chicago, Indianapolis, Memphis, and Tulsa controls, also
Quote from: ilpt4u on April 20, 2021, 01:12:51 PM
Under this Control City theory, I-57 should use Sikeston for SB, not Memphis
When the Little Rock Extenstion is complete and signed, Little Rock then, maybe, someday
The STL Beltway of 255 and 270 need to remove their Chicago, Indianapolis, Memphis, and Tulsa controls, also
Actually, his beef seems only to be that I-70 was
intended to go farther than it actually does. It it had never been planned to go farther east, then I suspect he'd have no problem with it.
The Garden State Parkway needs to remove Springfield for I-78 and install either Clinton or Easton like the rest of the ramps for I-78 west have. The city (actually a township) was used when I-78 ended at NJ 24 before the controversial segment between Springfield and Watchung got built and opened to traffic in 1986 and never updated.
In actuality IMO Allentown needs to be used as Easton was also used when I-78 stopped at Still Valley until 1989 which had traffic default into US 22 for Phillipsburg and Easton.
Quote from: ilpt4u on April 20, 2021, 01:12:51 PM
When the Little Rock Extenstion is complete and signed, Little Rock then, maybe, someday
Actually, no, because I-57 would not actually reach the city limits of Little Rock. That is not allowed under HighwayStar's rules.
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 20, 2021, 01:28:56 PM
Quote from: ilpt4u on April 20, 2021, 01:12:51 PM
When the Little Rock Extenstion is complete and signed, Little Rock then, maybe, someday
Actually, no, because I-57 would not actually reach the city limits of Little Rock. That is not allowed under HighwayStar's rules.
So we'll say North Little Rock since it does include that city and it's easy to relate to Little Rock.
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 20, 2021, 12:04:28 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 20, 2021, 11:28:10 AM
The endpoint of I-70 is within Baltimore city limits, right? That should be good enough.
Just barely, but yes. (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3011486,-76.7114992,3a,75y,93.29h,87.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfbxnX1_AT3NFxUE7RMALgQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en)
I came here to point that out.
https://goo.gl/maps/dYbKRgVaiJMD6s5V6
And it definitely serves Baltimore COUNTY. https://goo.gl/maps/7sN15teMzmBAcKfy9
Quote from: hbelkins on April 20, 2021, 04:28:39 PM
And it definitely serves Baltimore COUNTY. https://goo.gl/maps/7sN15teMzmBAcKfy9
MA 2 serves Worcester County and very clearly shouldn't be signed for Worcester.
If a road ends outside a city limit or in a metro area and the city is large enough, it shouldn't create a problem. With the reasoning behind that no wonder why NJDOT uses Ewing over Trenton on mileage signs for I-295. The engineer who erected those signs thinks like some on here.
Then under the same logic let's change I-80's eastbound control city in Ohio and NJ to Teaneck.
Quote from: 1 on April 20, 2021, 04:32:51 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 20, 2021, 04:28:39 PM
And it definitely serves Baltimore COUNTY. https://goo.gl/maps/7sN15teMzmBAcKfy9
MA 2 serves Worcester County and very clearly shouldn't be signed for Worcester.
How do I get from Gardner to Worcester?
Cleveland being used on I-280 in Toledo is bad too right?
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 19, 2021, 03:32:54 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 19, 2021, 03:31:52 PM
Baltimore is a major city in the United States and the city that I-70 is heading toward. It makes perfect sense to use Baltimore as a control city on I-70.
No, because the highway does not actually serve Baltimore as intended, this needs to be reflected in the designation of control city. If they want it designated as such they need to actually finish the road (60+ years after the fact)
Let's sign Waltham on I-95 north in Providence. Sturbridge would be good on I-84 in Connecticut. MA 24 north should be signed for Milton. MA 3 north should be Braintree. I-95 should skip DC and sign Baltimore in Virginia. The PA turnpike should use Valley Forge instead of Philly...
This is getting to be a ridiculous argument that highlights classic "over thinking" of the entire subject. For example, "I-70 doesn't really go to Baltimore"; while that's true, if you're in Frederick or Cumberland or even Breezewood and you are going to Baltimore - I-70 is the way there. And, actually, if you're in Breezewood you need I-70 to get to DC too, even though it ultimately doesn't even come close to it. If you're in Toledo, I-80/90 is the route you need to take if you're going to Chicago. At least until you get close to it. If you're in Needles, you take I-40 to get to Los Angeles - even though it ends long before getting there (in Barstow).
These petty semantics miss the point and are borderline absurd. Just my 0.02 that nobody asked for (but it's a forum, so I can).
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 21, 2021, 10:41:42 AM
This is getting to be a ridiculous argument that highlights classic "over thinking" of the entire subject. For example, "I-70 doesn't really go to Baltimore"; while that's true, if you're in Frederick or Cumberland or even Breezewood and you are going to Baltimore - I-70 is the way there. And, actually, if you're in Breezewood you need I-70 to get to DC too, even though it ultimately doesn't even come close to it. If you're in Toledo, I-80/90 is the route you need to take if you're going to Chicago. At least until you get close to it. If you're in Needles, you take I-40 to get to Los Angeles - even though it ends long before getting there (in Barstow).
These petty semantics miss the point and are borderline absurd. Just my 0.02 that nobody asked for (but it's a forum, so I can).
Agreed 100%, it's the technicalities that some people on this forum focus so hard on that it takes away from simple reality. It's stupid IMO.
I remember a long time ago, possibly on MTR, there was a discussion about some use of Cleveland on I-76 in the Pittsburgh area. I don't know what prompted it, possibly a discussion between a Browns and Steelers fan and some meme, but during the discussion, someone was adamant about saying "I-76 DOESN'T GO TO CLEVELAND!!!!"
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 21, 2021, 10:53:04 AM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 21, 2021, 10:41:42 AM
This is getting to be a ridiculous argument that highlights classic "over thinking" of the entire subject. For example, "I-70 doesn't really go to Baltimore"; while that's true, if you're in Frederick or Cumberland or even Breezewood and you are going to Baltimore - I-70 is the way there. And, actually, if you're in Breezewood you need I-70 to get to DC too, even though it ultimately doesn't even come close to it. If you're in Toledo, I-80/90 is the route you need to take if you're going to Chicago. At least until you get close to it. If you're in Needles, you take I-40 to get to Los Angeles - even though it ends long before getting there (in Barstow).
These petty semantics miss the point and are borderline absurd. Just my 0.02 that nobody asked for (but it's a forum, so I can).
Agreed 100%, it's the technicalities that some people on this forum focus so hard on that it takes away from simple reality. It's stupid IMO.
This is not about a "technicality" so much is it is about highlighting the incomplete nature of I-70 and forcing the signage to reflect that.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 12:53:13 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 21, 2021, 10:53:04 AM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 21, 2021, 10:41:42 AM
This is getting to be a ridiculous argument that highlights classic "over thinking" of the entire subject. For example, "I-70 doesn't really go to Baltimore"; while that's true, if you're in Frederick or Cumberland or even Breezewood and you are going to Baltimore - I-70 is the way there. And, actually, if you're in Breezewood you need I-70 to get to DC too, even though it ultimately doesn't even come close to it. If you're in Toledo, I-80/90 is the route you need to take if you're going to Chicago. At least until you get close to it. If you're in Needles, you take I-40 to get to Los Angeles - even though it ends long before getting there (in Barstow).
These petty semantics miss the point and are borderline absurd. Just my 0.02 that nobody asked for (but it's a forum, so I can).
Agreed 100%, it's the technicalities that some people on this forum focus so hard on that it takes away from simple reality. It's stupid IMO.
This is not about a "technicality" so much is it is about highlighting the incomplete nature of I-70 and forcing the signage to reflect that.
I-70 takes traffic towards Baltimore. It's adequate. It's not changing.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 12:53:13 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 21, 2021, 10:53:04 AM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 21, 2021, 10:41:42 AM
This is getting to be a ridiculous argument that highlights classic "over thinking" of the entire subject. For example, "I-70 doesn't really go to Baltimore"; while that's true, if you're in Frederick or Cumberland or even Breezewood and you are going to Baltimore - I-70 is the way there. And, actually, if you're in Breezewood you need I-70 to get to DC too, even though it ultimately doesn't even come close to it. If you're in Toledo, I-80/90 is the route you need to take if you're going to Chicago. At least until you get close to it. If you're in Needles, you take I-40 to get to Los Angeles - even though it ends long before getting there (in Barstow).
These petty semantics miss the point and are borderline absurd. Just my 0.02 that nobody asked for (but it's a forum, so I can).
Agreed 100%, it's the technicalities that some people on this forum focus so hard on that it takes away from simple reality. It's stupid IMO.
This is not about a "technicality" so much is it is about highlighting the incomplete nature of I-70 and forcing the signage to reflect that.
What would you sign instead?
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 12:53:13 PM
This is not about a "technicality"
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 12:53:13 PM
highlighting the incomplete nature of I-70 and forcing the signage to reflect that.
:hmmm:
Quote from: Merriam-Webster
technicality
1: something technical
especially : a detail meaningful only to a specialist highway enthusiast
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:02:37 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 12:53:13 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 21, 2021, 10:53:04 AM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 21, 2021, 10:41:42 AM
This is getting to be a ridiculous argument that highlights classic "over thinking" of the entire subject. For example, "I-70 doesn't really go to Baltimore"; while that's true, if you're in Frederick or Cumberland or even Breezewood and you are going to Baltimore - I-70 is the way there. And, actually, if you're in Breezewood you need I-70 to get to DC too, even though it ultimately doesn't even come close to it. If you're in Toledo, I-80/90 is the route you need to take if you're going to Chicago. At least until you get close to it. If you're in Needles, you take I-40 to get to Los Angeles - even though it ends long before getting there (in Barstow).
These petty semantics miss the point and are borderline absurd. Just my 0.02 that nobody asked for (but it's a forum, so I can).
Agreed 100%, it's the technicalities that some people on this forum focus so hard on that it takes away from simple reality. It's stupid IMO.
This is not about a "technicality" so much is it is about highlighting the incomplete nature of I-70 and forcing the signage to reflect that.
What would you sign instead?
I would say "Baltimore Beltway" or something to that effect, since that is really what the road dead ends to. That makes clear that you will get to the Baltimore area, but you cannot go directly to Baltimore proper using that highway.
Similarly, I think I-95 needs to be de-signed from I-495 around Washington DC and the signage changed to "Washington Beltway" instead, for the same reason.
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 21, 2021, 01:06:36 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 12:53:13 PM
This is not about a "technicality"
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 12:53:13 PM
highlighting the incomplete nature of I-70 and forcing the signage to reflect that.
:hmmm:
Quote from: Merriam-Webster
technicality
1: something technical
especially : a detail meaningful only to a specialist highway enthusiast
Anyone who has tried to drive into Baltimore going East or out of it West would not consider that a detail only meaningful to an enthusiast. The same with DC.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 01:07:53 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:02:37 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 12:53:13 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 21, 2021, 10:53:04 AM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 21, 2021, 10:41:42 AM
This is getting to be a ridiculous argument that highlights classic "over thinking" of the entire subject. For example, "I-70 doesn't really go to Baltimore"; while that's true, if you're in Frederick or Cumberland or even Breezewood and you are going to Baltimore - I-70 is the way there. And, actually, if you're in Breezewood you need I-70 to get to DC too, even though it ultimately doesn't even come close to it. If you're in Toledo, I-80/90 is the route you need to take if you're going to Chicago. At least until you get close to it. If you're in Needles, you take I-40 to get to Los Angeles - even though it ends long before getting there (in Barstow).
These petty semantics miss the point and are borderline absurd. Just my 0.02 that nobody asked for (but it's a forum, so I can).
Agreed 100%, it's the technicalities that some people on this forum focus so hard on that it takes away from simple reality. It's stupid IMO.
This is not about a "technicality" so much is it is about highlighting the incomplete nature of I-70 and forcing the signage to reflect that.
What would you sign instead?
I would say "Baltimore Beltway" or something to that effect, since that is really what the road dead ends to. That makes clear that you will get to the Baltimore area, but you cannot go directly to Baltimore proper using that highway.
Similarly, I think I-95 needs to be de-signed from I-495 around Washington DC and the signage changed to "Washington Beltway" instead, for the same reason.
That means I-95 would have a gap.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:10:55 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 01:07:53 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:02:37 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 12:53:13 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 21, 2021, 10:53:04 AM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 21, 2021, 10:41:42 AM
This is getting to be a ridiculous argument that highlights classic "over thinking" of the entire subject. For example, "I-70 doesn't really go to Baltimore"; while that's true, if you're in Frederick or Cumberland or even Breezewood and you are going to Baltimore - I-70 is the way there. And, actually, if you're in Breezewood you need I-70 to get to DC too, even though it ultimately doesn't even come close to it. If you're in Toledo, I-80/90 is the route you need to take if you're going to Chicago. At least until you get close to it. If you're in Needles, you take I-40 to get to Los Angeles - even though it ends long before getting there (in Barstow).
These petty semantics miss the point and are borderline absurd. Just my 0.02 that nobody asked for (but it's a forum, so I can).
Agreed 100%, it's the technicalities that some people on this forum focus so hard on that it takes away from simple reality. It's stupid IMO.
This is not about a "technicality" so much is it is about highlighting the incomplete nature of I-70 and forcing the signage to reflect that.
What would you sign instead?
I would say "Baltimore Beltway" or something to that effect, since that is really what the road dead ends to. That makes clear that you will get to the Baltimore area, but you cannot go directly to Baltimore proper using that highway.
Similarly, I think I-95 needs to be de-signed from I-495 around Washington DC and the signage changed to "Washington Beltway" instead, for the same reason.
That means I-95 would have a gap.
You are correct, although I would argue it already does, since there is no I-95 through Washington as there should be, and it exists only as signs on the beltway. This would merely be calling it for what it is.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:10:55 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 01:07:53 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:02:37 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 12:53:13 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 21, 2021, 10:53:04 AM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 21, 2021, 10:41:42 AM
This is getting to be a ridiculous argument that highlights classic "over thinking" of the entire subject. For example, "I-70 doesn't really go to Baltimore"; while that's true, if you're in Frederick or Cumberland or even Breezewood and you are going to Baltimore - I-70 is the way there. And, actually, if you're in Breezewood you need I-70 to get to DC too, even though it ultimately doesn't even come close to it. If you're in Toledo, I-80/90 is the route you need to take if you're going to Chicago. At least until you get close to it. If you're in Needles, you take I-40 to get to Los Angeles - even though it ends long before getting there (in Barstow).
These petty semantics miss the point and are borderline absurd. Just my 0.02 that nobody asked for (but it's a forum, so I can).
Agreed 100%, it's the technicalities that some people on this forum focus so hard on that it takes away from simple reality. It's stupid IMO.
This is not about a "technicality" so much is it is about highlighting the incomplete nature of I-70 and forcing the signage to reflect that.
What would you sign instead?
I would say "Baltimore Beltway" or something to that effect, since that is really what the road dead ends to. That makes clear that you will get to the Baltimore area, but you cannot go directly to Baltimore proper using that highway.
Similarly, I think I-95 needs to be de-signed from I-495 around Washington DC and the signage changed to "Washington Beltway" instead, for the same reason.
That means I-95 would have a gap.
You are correct, although I would argue it already does, since there is no I-95 through Washington as there should be, and it exists only as signs on the beltway. This would merely be calling it for what it is.
That would be really confusing if you live in Richmond and you want to go to Baltimore, and you know to follow I-95 and it vanishes on the Capital beltway.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:29:14 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:10:55 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 01:07:53 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:02:37 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 12:53:13 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 21, 2021, 10:53:04 AM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 21, 2021, 10:41:42 AM
This is getting to be a ridiculous argument that highlights classic "over thinking" of the entire subject. For example, "I-70 doesn't really go to Baltimore"; while that's true, if you're in Frederick or Cumberland or even Breezewood and you are going to Baltimore - I-70 is the way there. And, actually, if you're in Breezewood you need I-70 to get to DC too, even though it ultimately doesn't even come close to it. If you're in Toledo, I-80/90 is the route you need to take if you're going to Chicago. At least until you get close to it. If you're in Needles, you take I-40 to get to Los Angeles - even though it ends long before getting there (in Barstow).
These petty semantics miss the point and are borderline absurd. Just my 0.02 that nobody asked for (but it's a forum, so I can).
Agreed 100%, it's the technicalities that some people on this forum focus so hard on that it takes away from simple reality. It's stupid IMO.
This is not about a "technicality" so much is it is about highlighting the incomplete nature of I-70 and forcing the signage to reflect that.
What would you sign instead?
I would say "Baltimore Beltway" or something to that effect, since that is really what the road dead ends to. That makes clear that you will get to the Baltimore area, but you cannot go directly to Baltimore proper using that highway.
Similarly, I think I-95 needs to be de-signed from I-495 around Washington DC and the signage changed to "Washington Beltway" instead, for the same reason.
That means I-95 would have a gap.
You are correct, although I would argue it already does, since there is no I-95 through Washington as there should be, and it exists only as signs on the beltway. This would merely be calling it for what it is.
That would be really confusing if you live in Richmond and you want to go to Baltimore, and you know to follow I-95 and it vanishes on the Capital beltway.
Yes it would be, might make you more apt to write your congressmen and demand the finish the damn road too.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 01:33:25 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:29:14 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 01:26:33 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:10:55 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 01:07:53 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 01:02:37 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 12:53:13 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 21, 2021, 10:53:04 AM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 21, 2021, 10:41:42 AM
This is getting to be a ridiculous argument that highlights classic "over thinking" of the entire subject. For example, "I-70 doesn't really go to Baltimore"; while that's true, if you're in Frederick or Cumberland or even Breezewood and you are going to Baltimore - I-70 is the way there. And, actually, if you're in Breezewood you need I-70 to get to DC too, even though it ultimately doesn't even come close to it. If you're in Toledo, I-80/90 is the route you need to take if you're going to Chicago. At least until you get close to it. If you're in Needles, you take I-40 to get to Los Angeles - even though it ends long before getting there (in Barstow).
These petty semantics miss the point and are borderline absurd. Just my 0.02 that nobody asked for (but it's a forum, so I can).
Agreed 100%, it's the technicalities that some people on this forum focus so hard on that it takes away from simple reality. It's stupid IMO.
This is not about a "technicality" so much is it is about highlighting the incomplete nature of I-70 and forcing the signage to reflect that.
What would you sign instead?
I would say "Baltimore Beltway" or something to that effect, since that is really what the road dead ends to. That makes clear that you will get to the Baltimore area, but you cannot go directly to Baltimore proper using that highway.
Similarly, I think I-95 needs to be de-signed from I-495 around Washington DC and the signage changed to "Washington Beltway" instead, for the same reason.
That means I-95 would have a gap.
You are correct, although I would argue it already does, since there is no I-95 through Washington as there should be, and it exists only as signs on the beltway. This would merely be calling it for what it is.
That would be really confusing if you live in Richmond and you want to go to Baltimore, and you know to follow I-95 and it vanishes on the Capital beltway.
Yes it would be, might make you more apt to write your congressmen and demand the finish the damn road too.
I-95 through DC IS NEVER GETTING BUILT AND NOTHING YOU DO WILL CHANGE THAT! DO YOU WANT THE INTERSTATE TO HAVE A GAP FOREVER?
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 01:09:02 PM
Anyone who has tried to drive into Baltimore going East or out of it West would not consider that a detail only meaningful to an enthusiast. The same with DC.
I sincerely doubt that anyone outside this forum is losing any sleep over I-70 not "functionally serving" Baltimore (most of us
on the forum certainly aren't) - they just hop on I-695 to I-95 (or maybe I-83 if their destination is in the northern part of the city) and don't think twice about it.
(Veering into sarcasm, but your wording makes it sound like everyone's innocently driving on I-70, pass right by I-695, and upon reaching the Park & Ride suddenly panic that they can't get into the city, and thus turn around and go home unsuccessful.
Gosh darn, maybe things will be different tomorrow!)
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 01:33:25 PM
Yes it would be, might make you more apt to write your congressmen and demand the finish the damn road too.
The irony in this statement is that one of the main activists who worked to stop I-70 (and I-83, for that matter) went on to be a U.S. Senator representing Maryland up until a few years ago.
Control cities sometimes don't directly serve the city of note. This isn't new.
How about we remove control cities altogether? Everyone follows their GPS now.
Fun fact - in North Carolina, I-95 only touches the edge of Wilson, Rocky Mount, and Fayetteville, it doesn't directly serve them. And by the looks of it, those seem like annexations so the city would have I-95, it likely wasn't originally that way at all.
Yet they are still control cities. I don't agree with Rocky Mount or Wilson, but not because of the city limit thing, merely they are not big enough to warrant it. But Fayetteville is fine, even if I-95 doesn't directly serve it.
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 21, 2021, 02:04:36 PM
How about we remove control cities altogether? Everyone follows their GPS now.
They are a nice confirmation that you are going the right way.
Yes, control cities are useful.
Quote from: mhh on May 26, 2014, 12:18:06 AM
In the fall of 2012 the interchange at the end of I-94/I-69 in Port Huron, Michigan was reconfigured. Previously, traffic in the left lane of the two-lane freeway stayed in the U.S.; traffic in the right lane followed the Blue Water Bridge into Canada. Now, the freeway has been widened to four lanes; the two right lanes stay in the U.S. and the two left lanes go to Canada. Despite many signs with legends like "Follow signs, ignore GPS" many drivers still blindly obey their un-updated GPS units and inadvertendly end up in Canada. They then have to clear Canadian customs before returning and clearing American customs. If they have contraband they then get into big trouble.
http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,4616,7-151-63670_63671-305368--,00.html (http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,4616,7-151-63670_63671-305368--,00.html) [dead link]
http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/42056-drug-dogs-at-blue-water-bridge-port-huron/ (http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/42056-drug-dogs-at-blue-water-bridge-port-huron/)
Quote from: 1 on April 21, 2021, 02:13:45 PM
Yes, control cities are useful.
Quote from: mhh on May 26, 2014, 12:18:06 AM
In the fall of 2012 the interchange at the end of I-94/I-69 in Port Huron, Michigan was reconfigured. Previously, traffic in the left lane of the two-lane freeway stayed in the U.S.; traffic in the right lane followed the Blue Water Bridge into Canada. Now, the freeway has been widened to four lanes; the two right lanes stay in the U.S. and the two left lanes go to Canada. Despite many signs with legends like "Follow signs, ignore GPS" many drivers still blindly obey their un-updated GPS units and inadvertendly end up in Canada. They then have to clear Canadian customs before returning and clearing American customs. If they have contraband they then get into big trouble.
http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,4616,7-151-63670_63671-305368--,00.html (http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,4616,7-151-63670_63671-305368--,00.html) [dead link]
http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/42056-drug-dogs-at-blue-water-bridge-port-huron/ (http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/42056-drug-dogs-at-blue-water-bridge-port-huron/)
The GPS called exit 35A in Needham exit 19A.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 02:07:26 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 21, 2021, 02:04:36 PM
How about we remove control cities altogether? Everyone follows their GPS now.
They are a nice confirmation that you are going the right way.
I never use GPS.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 12:53:13 PM
highlighting the incomplete nature of I-70
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 01:33:25 PM
make you more apt to write your congressmen
These are not the purpose of control cities. Control cities exist to help people get to where they're going.
Signing Baltimore on I-70 helps people get to Baltimore.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 01:09:02 PM
Anyone who has tried to drive into Baltimore going East or out of it West would not consider that a detail only meaningful to an enthusiast. The same with DC.
I'd be willing to bet money that, if 100 such people were polled, the majority of them wouldn't even have thought of it before, and fewer than eight would actually consider it something 'meaningful'.
Quote from: kphoger on April 21, 2021, 02:38:05 PM
and fewer than eight would actually consider it something 'meaningful'.
Even that is a stretch.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 02:28:22 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 02:07:26 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 21, 2021, 02:04:36 PM
How about we remove control cities altogether? Everyone follows their GPS now.
They are a nice confirmation that you are going the right way.
I never use GPS.
If you were trying to find Baltimore, how would you find it without a GPS if there is no sign towards it?
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 03:07:41 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 02:28:22 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 02:07:26 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 21, 2021, 02:04:36 PM
How about we remove control cities altogether? Everyone follows their GPS now.
They are a nice confirmation that you are going the right way.
I never use GPS.
If you were trying to find Baltimore, how would you find it without a GPS if there is no sign towards it?
(using his words) If it's signed as Baltimore Beltway, it's clear that it will get you somewhat close. Further signs will direct you once you get on the beltway, or you can take US 40 to certain parts of the city.
I am not defending his position.
Quote from: 1 on April 21, 2021, 03:27:14 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 03:07:41 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 02:28:22 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 02:07:26 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 21, 2021, 02:04:36 PM
How about we remove control cities altogether? Everyone follows their GPS now.
They are a nice confirmation that you are going the right way.
I never use GPS.
If you were trying to find Baltimore, how would you find it without a GPS if there is no sign towards it?
(using his words) If it's signed as Baltimore Beltway, it's clear that it will get you somewhat close. Further signs will direct you once you get on the beltway, or you can take US 40 to certain parts of the city.
I am not defending his position.
I guess, but what would he sign on I-95 north in Massachusetts? To 128?
'Baltimore Beltway' is not a good control destination.
Let's say my family decides to go on a road trip to Baltimore. (Actually, now that I think about it, I once considered a family road trip that would have taken us on I-70 to Baltimore.) Dude, I'm from Wichita. I've never driven anywhere near there before. I don't know what this "Baltimore Beltway" thing is (well, I didn't before this thread). Am I on the right highway if I want to get to Baltimore? It kind of makes it sound like I'm not.
Egads. This is still a discussion? Pretty well-established now that Baltimore is appropriate, Don Quixotes aside.
Quote from: 1 on April 21, 2021, 02:13:45 PM
Yes, control cities are useful.
Quote from: mhh on May 26, 2014, 12:18:06 AM
In the fall of 2012 the interchange at the end of I-94/I-69 in Port Huron, Michigan was reconfigured. Previously, traffic in the left lane of the two-lane freeway stayed in the U.S.; traffic in the right lane followed the Blue Water Bridge into Canada. Now, the freeway has been widened to four lanes; the two right lanes stay in the U.S. and the two left lanes go to Canada. Despite many signs with legends like "Follow signs, ignore GPS" many drivers still blindly obey their un-updated GPS units and inadvertendly end up in Canada. They then have to clear Canadian customs before returning and clearing American customs. If they have contraband they then get into big trouble.
http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,4616,7-151-63670_63671-305368--,00.html (http://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,4616,7-151-63670_63671-305368--,00.html) [dead link]
http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/42056-drug-dogs-at-blue-water-bridge-port-huron/ (http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/42056-drug-dogs-at-blue-water-bridge-port-huron/)
They even have the country flags up there on the signs.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.990583,-82.4549403,3a,24.7y,66.32h,96.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVb4TRpPKiiX6lS5qyPW-Ig!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 12:53:13 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 21, 2021, 10:53:04 AM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 21, 2021, 10:41:42 AM
This is getting to be a ridiculous argument that highlights classic "over thinking" of the entire subject. For example, "I-70 doesn't really go to Baltimore"; while that's true, if you're in Frederick or Cumberland or even Breezewood and you are going to Baltimore - I-70 is the way there. And, actually, if you're in Breezewood you need I-70 to get to DC too, even though it ultimately doesn't even come close to it. If you're in Toledo, I-80/90 is the route you need to take if you're going to Chicago. At least until you get close to it. If you're in Needles, you take I-40 to get to Los Angeles - even though it ends long before getting there (in Barstow).
These petty semantics miss the point and are borderline absurd. Just my 0.02 that nobody asked for (but it's a forum, so I can).
Agreed 100%, it's the technicalities that some people on this forum focus so hard on that it takes away from simple reality. It's stupid IMO.
This is not about a "technicality" so much is it is about highlighting the incomplete nature of I-70 and forcing the signage to reflect that.
An itemized list of anyone who cares that I-70 wasn't finished in Baltimore:
1. HighwayStar
2.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 21, 2021, 06:27:23 PM
An itemized list of anyone who cares that I-70 lists Baltimore as a control city even though it technically doesn't reach Downtown:
1. HighwayStar
2.
FTFY. I wouldn't say he's the only one that cares the highway system wasn't complete as planned. But he's certainly one of the only ones who cares about the control city listing "Baltimore".
In the context control cities he is, yeah. Road signs are for navigation purposes, not "highlighting" anything.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 21, 2021, 06:27:23 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 12:53:13 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 21, 2021, 10:53:04 AM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 21, 2021, 10:41:42 AM
This is getting to be a ridiculous argument that highlights classic "over thinking" of the entire subject. For example, "I-70 doesn't really go to Baltimore"; while that's true, if you're in Frederick or Cumberland or even Breezewood and you are going to Baltimore - I-70 is the way there. And, actually, if you're in Breezewood you need I-70 to get to DC too, even though it ultimately doesn't even come close to it. If you're in Toledo, I-80/90 is the route you need to take if you're going to Chicago. At least until you get close to it. If you're in Needles, you take I-40 to get to Los Angeles - even though it ends long before getting there (in Barstow).
These petty semantics miss the point and are borderline absurd. Just my 0.02 that nobody asked for (but it's a forum, so I can).
Agreed 100%, it's the technicalities that some people on this forum focus so hard on that it takes away from simple reality. It's stupid IMO.
This is not about a "technicality" so much is it is about highlighting the incomplete nature of I-70 and forcing the signage to reflect that.
An itemized list of anyone who cares that I-70 wasn't finished in Baltimore:
1. HighwayStar
2. Fritzowl
FTFY
I-17 through most of metro Phoenix has a southern control city of Tucson even though I-17 ends over 100 miles from the Tucson city limits, the same is true for I-8 throughout its entire Arizona run it has an eastern control city of Tucson even though it ends about 60 miles from the Tucson city limits. If you follow I-17 or I-8 to their terminuses they end at I-10 which does serve Tucson. The same is true with I-70 at its terminus I-695 does serve Baltimore.
Quote from: ztonyg on April 21, 2021, 06:43:52 PM
I-17 through most of metro Phoenix has a southern control city of Tucson even though I-17 ends over 100 miles from the Tucson city limits, the same is true for I-8 throughout its entire Arizona run it has an eastern control city of Tucson even though it ends about 60 miles from the Tucson city limits. If you follow I-17 or I-8 to their terminuses they end at I-10 which does serve Tucson. The same is true with I-70 at its terminus I-695 does serve Baltimore.
We have another thread for control cities that are not on the route they are signed on.
Quote from: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 05:17:57 PM
Egads. This is still a discussion? Pretty well-established now that Baltimore is appropriate, Don Quixotes aside.
(https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/horse-is-sleeping-lying-down-picture-id1178156221?k=6&m=1178156221&s=612x612&w=0&h=VH0YQSu5ddfa2VG1PKZlzCskC_-FsNrrOeWfOGI8nyo=)
Quote from: hbelkins on April 21, 2021, 07:23:22 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 21, 2021, 05:17:57 PM
Egads. This is still a discussion? Pretty well-established now that Baltimore is appropriate, Don Quixotes aside.
(https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/horse-is-sleeping-lying-down-picture-id1178156221?k=6&m=1178156221&s=612x612&w=0&h=VH0YQSu5ddfa2VG1PKZlzCskC_-FsNrrOeWfOGI8nyo=)
He's no longer arguing his point, so I think we are good.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 07:25:10 PM
He's no longer arguing his point, so I think we are good.
It's only been five hours since his last post.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 06:37:22 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 21, 2021, 06:27:23 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 12:53:13 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 21, 2021, 10:53:04 AM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 21, 2021, 10:41:42 AM
This is getting to be a ridiculous argument that highlights classic "over thinking" of the entire subject. For example, "I-70 doesn't really go to Baltimore"; while that's true, if you're in Frederick or Cumberland or even Breezewood and you are going to Baltimore - I-70 is the way there. And, actually, if you're in Breezewood you need I-70 to get to DC too, even though it ultimately doesn't even come close to it. If you're in Toledo, I-80/90 is the route you need to take if you're going to Chicago. At least until you get close to it. If you're in Needles, you take I-40 to get to Los Angeles - even though it ends long before getting there (in Barstow).
These petty semantics miss the point and are borderline absurd. Just my 0.02 that nobody asked for (but it's a forum, so I can).
Agreed 100%, it's the technicalities that some people on this forum focus so hard on that it takes away from simple reality. It's stupid IMO.
This is not about a "technicality" so much is it is about highlighting the incomplete nature of I-70 and forcing the signage to reflect that.
An itemized list of anyone who cares that I-70 wasn't finished in Baltimore:
1. HighwayStar
2. Fritzowl
3. Kernals12
FTFY
ftfy 2.0
I-70 ending where it does and having Baltimore as the control city are both fine.
Quote from: 1 on April 21, 2021, 07:27:13 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 07:25:10 PM
He's no longer arguing his point, so I think we are good.
It's only been five hours since his last post.
Hopefully he's done.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 07:47:15 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 21, 2021, 07:27:13 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 21, 2021, 07:25:10 PM
He's no longer arguing his point, so I think we are good.
It's only been five hours since his last post.
Hopefully he's done.
I for one am planning to bring the subject up again in 2031.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 21, 2021, 06:27:23 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 12:53:13 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 21, 2021, 10:53:04 AM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 21, 2021, 10:41:42 AM
This is getting to be a ridiculous argument that highlights classic "over thinking" of the entire subject. For example, "I-70 doesn't really go to Baltimore"; while that's true, if you're in Frederick or Cumberland or even Breezewood and you are going to Baltimore - I-70 is the way there. And, actually, if you're in Breezewood you need I-70 to get to DC too, even though it ultimately doesn't even come close to it. If you're in Toledo, I-80/90 is the route you need to take if you're going to Chicago. At least until you get close to it. If you're in Needles, you take I-40 to get to Los Angeles - even though it ends long before getting there (in Barstow).
These petty semantics miss the point and are borderline absurd. Just my 0.02 that nobody asked for (but it's a forum, so I can).
Agreed 100%, it's the technicalities that some people on this forum focus so hard on that it takes away from simple reality. It's stupid IMO.
This is not about a "technicality" so much is it is about highlighting the incomplete nature of I-70 and forcing the signage to reflect that.
An itemized list of anyone who cares that I-70 wasn't finished in Baltimore:
1. HighwayStar
2.
For 2 you can fill in the hundreds of thousands of people who have had the misfortune of trying to drive in or out of that city with that excuse of an interstate.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 22, 2021, 01:50:32 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 21, 2021, 06:27:23 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 12:53:13 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 21, 2021, 10:53:04 AM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 21, 2021, 10:41:42 AM
This is getting to be a ridiculous argument that highlights classic "over thinking" of the entire subject. For example, "I-70 doesn't really go to Baltimore"; while that's true, if you're in Frederick or Cumberland or even Breezewood and you are going to Baltimore - I-70 is the way there. And, actually, if you're in Breezewood you need I-70 to get to DC too, even though it ultimately doesn't even come close to it. If you're in Toledo, I-80/90 is the route you need to take if you're going to Chicago. At least until you get close to it. If you're in Needles, you take I-40 to get to Los Angeles - even though it ends long before getting there (in Barstow).
These petty semantics miss the point and are borderline absurd. Just my 0.02 that nobody asked for (but it's a forum, so I can).
Agreed 100%, it's the technicalities that some people on this forum focus so hard on that it takes away from simple reality. It's stupid IMO.
This is not about a "technicality" so much is it is about highlighting the incomplete nature of I-70 and forcing the signage to reflect that.
An itemized list of anyone who cares that I-70 wasn't finished in Baltimore:
1. HighwayStar
2.
For 2 you can fill in the hundreds of thousands of people who have had the misfortune of trying to drive in or out of that city with that excuse of an interstate.
Nah, I'll let you do that. You're the one who cares about it.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2021, 01:56:31 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 22, 2021, 01:50:32 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 21, 2021, 06:27:23 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 12:53:13 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 21, 2021, 10:53:04 AM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 21, 2021, 10:41:42 AM
This is getting to be a ridiculous argument that highlights classic "over thinking" of the entire subject. For example, "I-70 doesn't really go to Baltimore"; while that's true, if you're in Frederick or Cumberland or even Breezewood and you are going to Baltimore - I-70 is the way there. And, actually, if you're in Breezewood you need I-70 to get to DC too, even though it ultimately doesn't even come close to it. If you're in Toledo, I-80/90 is the route you need to take if you're going to Chicago. At least until you get close to it. If you're in Needles, you take I-40 to get to Los Angeles - even though it ends long before getting there (in Barstow).
These petty semantics miss the point and are borderline absurd. Just my 0.02 that nobody asked for (but it's a forum, so I can).
Agreed 100%, it's the technicalities that some people on this forum focus so hard on that it takes away from simple reality. It's stupid IMO.
This is not about a "technicality" so much is it is about highlighting the incomplete nature of I-70 and forcing the signage to reflect that.
An itemized list of anyone who cares that I-70 wasn't finished in Baltimore:
1. HighwayStar
2.
For 2 you can fill in the hundreds of thousands of people who have had the misfortune of trying to drive in or out of that city with that excuse of an interstate.
Nah, I'll let you do that. You're the one who cares about it.
Alright
1. HighwayStar
2. Fritzowl
3. Kernals12
4.The hundreds of thousands of nameless motorists that have suffered driving in and out of Baltimore on I-70, which is a disgrace of an interstate and a testament to how sad this country has become when it comes to infrastructure.
QuoteAn itemized list of anyone who cares that I-70 lists Baltimore as a control city even though it technically doesn't reach Downtown:
1. HighwayStar
2.
Finish this one.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 22, 2021, 02:02:11 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2021, 01:56:31 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 22, 2021, 01:50:32 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 21, 2021, 06:27:23 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 12:53:13 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 21, 2021, 10:53:04 AM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 21, 2021, 10:41:42 AM
This is getting to be a ridiculous argument that highlights classic "over thinking" of the entire subject. For example, "I-70 doesn't really go to Baltimore"; while that's true, if you're in Frederick or Cumberland or even Breezewood and you are going to Baltimore - I-70 is the way there. And, actually, if you're in Breezewood you need I-70 to get to DC too, even though it ultimately doesn't even come close to it. If you're in Toledo, I-80/90 is the route you need to take if you're going to Chicago. At least until you get close to it. If you're in Needles, you take I-40 to get to Los Angeles - even though it ends long before getting there (in Barstow).
These petty semantics miss the point and are borderline absurd. Just my 0.02 that nobody asked for (but it's a forum, so I can).
Agreed 100%, it's the technicalities that some people on this forum focus so hard on that it takes away from simple reality. It's stupid IMO.
This is not about a "technicality" so much is it is about highlighting the incomplete nature of I-70 and forcing the signage to reflect that.
An itemized list of anyone who cares that I-70 wasn't finished in Baltimore:
1. HighwayStar
2.
For 2 you can fill in the hundreds of thousands of people who have had the misfortune of trying to drive in or out of that city with that excuse of an interstate.
Nah, I'll let you do that. You're the one who cares about it.
Alright
1. HighwayStar
2. Fritzowl
3. Kernals12
4.The hundreds of thousands of nameless motorists that have suffered driving in and out of Baltimore on I-70, which is a disgrace of an interstate and a testament to how sad this country has become when it comes to infrastructure.
Maybe they care about the highway being unfinished, but they for sure don't care about the control city on I-70.
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 22, 2021, 02:17:39 PM
Quote
An itemized list of anyone who cares that I-70 lists Baltimore as a control city, even though it technically doesn't reach downtown:
1. HighwayStar
Finish this one.
OK, I'm done copy-editing it.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 22, 2021, 02:02:11 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2021, 01:56:31 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 22, 2021, 01:50:32 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 21, 2021, 06:27:23 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 12:53:13 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 21, 2021, 10:53:04 AM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 21, 2021, 10:41:42 AM
This is getting to be a ridiculous argument that highlights classic "over thinking" of the entire subject. For example, "I-70 doesn't really go to Baltimore"; while that's true, if you're in Frederick or Cumberland or even Breezewood and you are going to Baltimore - I-70 is the way there. And, actually, if you're in Breezewood you need I-70 to get to DC too, even though it ultimately doesn't even come close to it. If you're in Toledo, I-80/90 is the route you need to take if you're going to Chicago. At least until you get close to it. If you're in Needles, you take I-40 to get to Los Angeles - even though it ends long before getting there (in Barstow).
These petty semantics miss the point and are borderline absurd. Just my 0.02 that nobody asked for (but it's a forum, so I can).
Agreed 100%, it's the technicalities that some people on this forum focus so hard on that it takes away from simple reality. It's stupid IMO.
This is not about a "technicality" so much is it is about highlighting the incomplete nature of I-70 and forcing the signage to reflect that.
An itemized list of anyone who cares that I-70 wasn't finished in Baltimore:
1. HighwayStar
2.
For 2 you can fill in the hundreds of thousands of people who have had the misfortune of trying to drive in or out of that city with that excuse of an interstate.
Nah, I'll let you do that. You're the one who cares about it.
Alright
1. HighwayStar
2. Fritzowl
3. Kernals12
4.The hundreds of thousands of nameless motorists that have suffered driving in and out of Baltimore on I-70, which is a disgrace of an interstate and a testament to how sad this country has become when it comes to infrastructure.
No, no, no, it's an itemized list. To finish it you have to fill in their names.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2021, 03:24:21 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 22, 2021, 02:02:11 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2021, 01:56:31 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 22, 2021, 01:50:32 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 21, 2021, 06:27:23 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 21, 2021, 12:53:13 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 21, 2021, 10:53:04 AM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 21, 2021, 10:41:42 AM
This is getting to be a ridiculous argument that highlights classic "over thinking" of the entire subject. For example, "I-70 doesn't really go to Baltimore"; while that's true, if you're in Frederick or Cumberland or even Breezewood and you are going to Baltimore - I-70 is the way there. And, actually, if you're in Breezewood you need I-70 to get to DC too, even though it ultimately doesn't even come close to it. If you're in Toledo, I-80/90 is the route you need to take if you're going to Chicago. At least until you get close to it. If you're in Needles, you take I-40 to get to Los Angeles - even though it ends long before getting there (in Barstow).
These petty semantics miss the point and are borderline absurd. Just my 0.02 that nobody asked for (but it's a forum, so I can).
Agreed 100%, it's the technicalities that some people on this forum focus so hard on that it takes away from simple reality. It's stupid IMO.
This is not about a "technicality" so much is it is about highlighting the incomplete nature of I-70 and forcing the signage to reflect that.
An itemized list of anyone who cares that I-70 wasn't finished in Baltimore:
1. HighwayStar
2.
For 2 you can fill in the hundreds of thousands of people who have had the misfortune of trying to drive in or out of that city with that excuse of an interstate.
Nah, I'll let you do that. You're the one who cares about it.
Alright
1. HighwayStar
2. Fritzowl
3. Kernals12
4.The hundreds of thousands of nameless motorists that have suffered driving in and out of Baltimore on I-70, which is a disgrace of an interstate and a testament to how sad this country has become when it comes to infrastructure.
No, no, no, it's an itemized list. To finish it you have to fill in their names.
First, I don't want to do that to this forum, it would be a mess.
Second, its like the Tomb of the Unknown soldier, we don't need to know their name to understand their sacrifices, hours spent driving on surface streets, longing for America to finally get with it and finish the Interstate system General Eisenhower authorized so many decades ago.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 22, 2021, 03:33:43 PM
longing for America to finally get with it and finish the Interstate system General Eisenhower authorized so many decades ago.
You think there are hundreds of thousands of people driving to/from Baltimore who are actually thinking that?
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 22, 2021, 03:33:43 PM
Second, its like the Tomb of the Unknown soldier, we don't need to know their name to understand their sacrifices, hours spent driving on surface streets, longing for America to finally get with it and finish the Interstate system General Eisenhower authorized so many decades ago.
I need to know their names, because clearly I don't understand the sacrifice they must endure because some engineer put "Baltimore" on a road sign.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 22, 2021, 03:33:43 PM
... Second, its like the Tomb of the Unknown soldier, we don't need to know their name to understand their sacrifices ...
:rofl:
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2021, 03:38:36 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 22, 2021, 03:33:43 PM
Second, its like the Tomb of the Unknown soldier, we don't need to know their name to understand their sacrifices, hours spent driving on surface streets, longing for America to finally get with it and finish the Interstate system General Eisenhower authorized so many decades ago.
I need to know their names, because clearly I don't understand the sacrifice they must endure because some engineer put "Baltimore" on a road sign.
Louis Xi
Justin Case
Firstname Lastname
John Hu
Emily Watt
Melissa Idano
Hernando Pendejo
Fri Cruz
I think that leaving "Baltimore" on the signs is like erecting a tomb of a different sort. Its a way for those of us who remain to remember the death of the Interstate highway system and, with it, America herself. Removing "Baltimore" from those signs is like admitting that everything is fine the way it is. It would be re-writing history. It would be pretending that the highway never intended to reach Baltimore in the first place. And I, for one, am not OK with that.
#keepbaltimore #neverforget
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 03:47:52 PM
I think that leaving "Baltimore" on the signs is like erecting a tomb of a different sort. Its a way for those of us who remain to remember the death of the Interstate highway system and, with it, America herself. Removing "Baltimore" from those signs is like admitting that everything is fine the way it is. It would be re-writing history. It would be pretending that the highway never intended to reach Baltimore in the first place. And I, for one, am not OK with that.
#keepbaltimore #neverforget
That is the beauty of using Baltimore Beltway, it solves for both.
No. It's not OK. It's like saying I-70 was only ever supposed to reach the Beltway. It ignores the suffering of all those thousands of drivers whose lives have been affected by the unacceptable failure of America to get them to their destination by way of a route with a single number. It ignores their plight and whitewashes the ugly menace that is I-70.
#keepbaltimore #neverforget #i70matters
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 22, 2021, 03:49:33 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 03:47:52 PM
I think that leaving "Baltimore" on the signs is like erecting a tomb of a different sort. Its a way for those of us who remain to remember the death of the Interstate highway system and, with it, America herself. Removing "Baltimore" from those signs is like admitting that everything is fine the way it is. It would be re-writing history. It would be pretending that the highway never intended to reach Baltimore in the first place. And I, for one, am not OK with that.
#keepbaltimore #neverforget
That is the beauty of using Baltimore Beltway, it solves for both.
Travelers will be so confused when they see that.
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 03:52:34 PM
No. It's not OK. It's like saying I-70 was only ever supposed to reach the Beltway. It ignores the suffering of all those thousands of drivers whose lives have been affected by the unacceptable failure of America to get them to their destination by way of a route with a single number. It ignores their plight and whitewashes the ugly menace that is I-70.
#keepbaltimore #neverforget #i70matters
How about
Baltimore (fail)?
From what I've seen so far, HighwayStar definitely has the most unique and unpopular opinions on this forum, beating out FritzOwl and Kernals12. You can take this either as a good or bad thing.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 22, 2021, 03:54:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 03:52:34 PM
No. It's not OK. It's like saying I-70 was only ever supposed to reach the Beltway. It ignores the suffering of all those thousands of drivers whose lives have been affected by the unacceptable failure of America to get them to their destination by way of a route with a single number. It ignores their plight and whitewashes the ugly menace that is I-70.
#keepbaltimore #neverforget #i70matters
How about Baltimore (fail)?
Fail existed until 2013 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fail,_Viseu) in Portugal.
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 03:52:34 PM
No. It's not OK. It's like saying I-70 was only ever supposed to reach the Beltway. It ignores the suffering of all those hundreds of thousands of drivers whose lives have been affected by the unacceptable failure of America to get them to their destination by way of a route with a single number. It ignores their plight and whitewashes the ugly menace that is I-70.
#keepbaltimore #neverforget #i70matters
Fixed it for you.
Chris
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 22, 2021, 03:54:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 22, 2021, 03:52:34 PM
No. It's not OK. It's like saying I-70 was only ever supposed to reach the Beltway. It ignores the suffering of all those thousands of drivers whose lives have been affected by the unacceptable failure of America to get them to their destination by way of a route with a single number. It ignores their plight and whitewashes the ugly menace that is I-70.
#keepbaltimore #neverforget #i70matters
How about Baltimore (fail)?
Can you call up MDOT SHA and suggest this? I'd absolutely love to hear their response.
Sign it "Almost Baltimore, But Not Quite."
Quote from: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 07:45:12 PM
Sign it "Almost Baltimore, But Not Quite."
"Baltimore suburbs"
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 22, 2021, 09:53:44 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 07:45:12 PM
Sign it "Almost Baltimore, But Not Quite."
"Baltimore suburbs"
Actually both of those are good. Or even, "Baltimore, if we ever grow a pair"
Quote from: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 07:45:12 PM
Sign it "Almost Baltimore, But Not Quite."
Shorten it.
Baltimore, ABNQ
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 23, 2021, 11:01:45 AM
Actually both of those are good. Or even, "Baltimore, if we ever grow a pair"
Done. Baltimore is okay now!
(https://i.ibb.co/1ZckXFD/70.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
Quote from: hbelkins on April 22, 2021, 07:45:12 PM
Sign it "Almost Baltimore, But Not Quite."
(https://i.imgur.com/Dci7Y0D.png)
You don't think it's a problem that But Not Quite appears to be a separate destination, accessible via either highway?
Quote from: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 02:11:06 PM
You don't think it's a problem that But Not Quite appears to be a separate destination, accessible via either highway?
Its no more confusing than having the interstate dead end into a damn parking lot.
Quote from: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 02:11:06 PM
You don't think it's a problem that But Not Quite appears to be a separate destination, accessible via either highway?
I take it you've never heard of But Not Quite, MD?
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 23, 2021, 02:15:15 PM
I take it you've never heard of But Not Quite, MD?
did not include google map link
Quote from: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 02:26:30 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 23, 2021, 02:15:15 PM
I take it you've never heard of But Not Quite, MD?
did not include google map link
It's a very small, yet elongated city that both I-70 & I-270 briefly pass thru before reaching
Baltimore and
Washington respectively, thus rendering it an acceptable control city for both routes.
(https://i.ibb.co/tJKJ6T7/But-Not-Quite-MD.jpg) (https://ibb.co/FD3D1LS)
I don't think that's an actual Google Maps boundary, there.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 23, 2021, 02:13:46 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 02:11:06 PM
You don't think it's a problem that But Not Quite appears to be a separate destination, accessible via either highway?
Its no more confusing than having the interstate dead end into a damn parking lot.
How is that confusing? The parking lot is in Baltimore's city limits, after all.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 23, 2021, 02:13:46 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 02:11:06 PM
You don't think it's a problem that But Not Quite appears to be a separate destination, accessible via either highway?
Its no more confusing than having the interstate dead end into a damn parking lot.
Are people mistakenly driving into that parking lot out of confusion?
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 23, 2021, 02:13:46 PM
Its no more confusing than having the interstate dead end into a damn parking lot.
Not that I know (or at the moment, personally have reason to care) where the municipal boundaries for the city (or even county) of Baltimore are..... for the general motoring public, I do believe SHA put up signs explicitly saying that I-70 ends at I-695. While that might not be
technically true, the only people who might know that have no business being confused at "having the interstate dead end into a damn parking lot.".
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 23, 2021, 02:13:46 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 02:11:06 PM
You don't think it's a problem that But Not Quite appears to be a separate destination, accessible via either highway?
Its no more confusing than having the interstate dead end into a damn parking lot.
It ends at I-695.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 23, 2021, 04:04:40 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 23, 2021, 02:13:46 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 02:11:06 PM
You don't think it's a problem that But Not Quite appears to be a separate destination, accessible via either highway?
Its no more confusing than having the interstate dead end into a damn parking lot.
It ends at I-695.
Incorrect. (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2997954,-76.7430073,3a,75y,23.07h,90.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-FRHLV9Grq8HM-9fAKH0MA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) If it did, it wouldn't make it all the way to Baltimore!
Chris
Wait the parking lot is in Baltimore! Take that highwaystar!
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 23, 2021, 04:09:51 PM
Wait the parking lot is in Baltimore! Take that highwaystar!
He doesn't care that the highway enters Baltimore city limits. He doesn't care that Baltimore on the sign is useful for getting people to their destination. He doesn't care that there are many other examples like it–even more egregious–all over the country. He doesn't care that drivers would be more confused if it were changed. He only wants it changed as a way of stomping his feet on the floor than I-70 didn't make it farther into the city.
Quote from: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 04:15:12 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 23, 2021, 04:09:51 PM
Wait the parking lot is in Baltimore! Take that highwaystar!
He doesn't care that the highway enters Baltimore city limits. He doesn't care that Baltimore on the sign is useful for getting people to their destination. He doesn't care that there are many other examples like it–even more egregious–all over the country. He doesn't care that drivers would be more confused if it were changed. He only wants it changed as a way of stomping his feet on the floor than I-70 didn't make it farther into the city.
I bet it made him really mad when I drove my Jeep into that parking lot to begin the final stretch I needed of I-70 to clinch the whole thing this past January. My dangerous vehicle was in Baltimore on I-70!
Chris
Quote from: Mr_Northside on April 23, 2021, 04:03:10 PM
Not that I know (or at the moment, personally have reason to care) where the municipal boundaries for the city (or even county) of Baltimore are..... for the general motoring public, I do believe SHA put up signs explicitly saying that I-70 ends at I-695. While that might not be technically true, the only people who might know that have no business being confused at "having the interstate dead end into a damn parking lot.".
Correct. (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3071079,-76.7860412,3a,75y,102.51h,87.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suit0C3jJcY-tnONYaDs66w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en) (And unlike the signs on I-695 as
jayhawkco pointed out, it is not signed as continuing past I-695 from I-70 itself (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3076245,-76.7608269,3a,75y,85.02h,91.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDvLN4svG6U3CxuCKWp3Lhw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en).)
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 23, 2021, 04:07:16 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 23, 2021, 04:04:40 PM
It ends at I-695.
Incorrect. (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2997954,-76.7430073,3a,75y,23.07h,90.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-FRHLV9Grq8HM-9fAKH0MA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) If it did, it wouldn't make it all the way to Baltimore!
FWIW I believe AASHTO did approve formally truncating I-70 to I-695, but it was never carried out by MDOT once the Baltimore Red Line project (which would have shared I-70's current ROW inside I-695 with a downgraded road named Cooks Boulevard) was cancelled in 2015.
Quote from: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 04:15:12 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 23, 2021, 04:09:51 PM
Wait the parking lot is in Baltimore! Take that highwaystar!
He doesn't care that the highway enters Baltimore city limits. He doesn't care that Baltimore on the sign is useful for getting people to their destination. He doesn't care that there are many other examples like it–even more egregious–all over the country. He doesn't care that drivers would be more confused if it were changed. He only wants it changed as a way of stomping his feet on the floor than I-70 didn't make it farther into the city.
It pretty much reads like the FritzOwl thread at this point:
HighwayStar: Remove Baltimore from I-70 signs
The entire rest of the forum: I-70 enters the metro area and provides the main access towards the city from the west, it's fine
HighwayStar: Put Baltimore Beltway on the signs, I think this is needed
Quote from: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 03:02:49 PM
I don't think that's an actual Google Maps boundary, there.
I don't know what you're talking about...
*jmacswimmer ducks and runs*
Quote from: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 04:15:12 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 23, 2021, 04:09:51 PM
Wait the parking lot is in Baltimore! Take that highwaystar!
He doesn't care that the highway enters Baltimore city limits. He doesn't care that Baltimore on the sign is useful for getting people to their destination. He doesn't care that there are many other examples like it–even more egregious–all over the country. He doesn't care that drivers would be more confused if it were changed. He only wants it changed as a way of stomping his feet on the floor than I-70 didn't make it farther into the city.
Now now, careful with the straw man, he is still looking for a brain.
He doesn't care that the highway enters Baltimore city limits.-True, as that is a meaningless technicality
He doesn't care that Baltimore on the sign is useful for getting people to their destination.-False, all of my suggested alternatives still have the word "Baltimore" in them.
He doesn't care that there are many other examples like it–even more egregious–all over the country.-Also false, I do care about them, and agree they need to be rectified, particularly in cases where they are misleading because the original design was not completed.
He only wants it changed as a way of stomping his feet on the floor than I-70 didn't make it farther into the city.-Half truth, it needs to reflect the incomplete nature of the route and the fact that I-70 does not meaningfully go to Baltimore.
Then, it seems to me, control cities do not actually serve the purpose you imagine them to.
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 23, 2021, 04:18:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 04:15:12 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 23, 2021, 04:09:51 PM
Wait the parking lot is in Baltimore! Take that highwaystar!
He doesn't care that the highway enters Baltimore city limits. He doesn't care that Baltimore on the sign is useful for getting people to their destination. He doesn't care that there are many other examples like it–even more egregious–all over the country. He doesn't care that drivers would be more confused if it were changed. He only wants it changed as a way of stomping his feet on the floor than I-70 didn't make it farther into the city.
I bet it made him really mad when I drove my Jeep into that parking lot to begin the final stretch I needed of I-70 to clinch the whole thing this past January. My dangerous vehicle was in Baltimore on I-70!
Chris
I, too, intentionally got off I-695 and detoured through Baltimore so I could start my westward trek on I-70 in that parking lot. My mom, who grew up in Kansas City and thus had always had a connection to I-70, was driving, and she thought it was really cool that the mighty I-70 in Kansas City got its start in a tiny parking lot in Baltimore.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2021, 05:17:29 PM
My mom, who grew up in Kansas City and thus had always had a connection to I-70, was driving, and she thought it was really cool was really confused that the mighty I-70 in Kansas City got its start in a tiny parking lot in Baltimore.
FTFY
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2021, 05:17:29 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 23, 2021, 04:18:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 04:15:12 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 23, 2021, 04:09:51 PM
Wait the parking lot is in Baltimore! Take that highwaystar!
He doesn't care that the highway enters Baltimore city limits. He doesn't care that Baltimore on the sign is useful for getting people to their destination. He doesn't care that there are many other examples like it–even more egregious–all over the country. He doesn't care that drivers would be more confused if it were changed. He only wants it changed as a way of stomping his feet on the floor than I-70 didn't make it farther into the city.
I bet it made him really mad when I drove my Jeep into that parking lot to begin the final stretch I needed of I-70 to clinch the whole thing this past January. My dangerous vehicle was in Baltimore on I-70!
Chris
I, too, intentionally got off I-695 and detoured through Baltimore so I could start my westward trek on I-70 in that parking lot. My mom, who grew up in Kansas City and thus had always had a connection to I-70, was driving, and she thought it was really cool that the mighty I-70 in Kansas City got its start in a tiny parking lot in Baltimore.
And likewise for me when I found that information out having lived in two different cities along I-70. I needed to still clinch the portion from that awesome parking lot in Baltimore up to the PA Turnpike on this last trip. How great is it that I-70 starts at a parking lot in Baltimore!
Chris
I think that the east end of I-70 is unique and cool.
I-70 EAST: Somewhere in Maryland
We talk about I-70 and Baltimore... I guess we're forgetting I-695 North lists "New York" :-o
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 23, 2021, 07:06:59 PM
We talk about I-70 and Baltimore... I guess we're forgetting I-695 North lists "New York" :-o
Wait until he here's that I-384 lists Providence... he's gonna cry.
What would you do if you came across a highway that had the control city of Hell? D32 in Michigan.
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 23, 2021, 10:04:02 PM
What would you do if you came across a highway that had the control city of Hell? D32 in Michigan.
Sing "Highway to Hell" as I literally turn onto the highway to Hell, MI
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 23, 2021, 05:23:37 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2021, 05:17:29 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 23, 2021, 04:18:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 04:15:12 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 23, 2021, 04:09:51 PM
Wait the parking lot is in Baltimore! Take that highwaystar!
He doesn't care that the highway enters Baltimore city limits. He doesn't care that Baltimore on the sign is useful for getting people to their destination. He doesn't care that there are many other examples like it–even more egregious–all over the country. He doesn't care that drivers would be more confused if it were changed. He only wants it changed as a way of stomping his feet on the floor than I-70 didn't make it farther into the city.
I bet it made him really mad when I drove my Jeep into that parking lot to begin the final stretch I needed of I-70 to clinch the whole thing this past January. My dangerous vehicle was in Baltimore on I-70!
Chris
I, too, intentionally got off I-695 and detoured through Baltimore so I could start my westward trek on I-70 in that parking lot. My mom, who grew up in Kansas City and thus had always had a connection to I-70, was driving, and she thought it was really cool that the mighty I-70 in Kansas City got its start in a tiny parking lot in Baltimore.
And likewise for me when I found that information out having lived in two different cities along I-70. I needed to still clinch the portion from that awesome parking lot in Baltimore up to the PA Turnpike on this last trip. How great is it that I-70 starts at a parking lot in Baltimore!
Chris
From a roadfan standpoint? Its very neat.
From a motorist who wants to get somewhere standpoint? Its a disgrace.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 23, 2021, 10:25:11 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 23, 2021, 05:23:37 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2021, 05:17:29 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 23, 2021, 04:18:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 04:15:12 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 23, 2021, 04:09:51 PM
Wait the parking lot is in Baltimore! Take that highwaystar!
He doesn't care that the highway enters Baltimore city limits. He doesn't care that Baltimore on the sign is useful for getting people to their destination. He doesn't care that there are many other examples like it–even more egregious–all over the country. He doesn't care that drivers would be more confused if it were changed. He only wants it changed as a way of stomping his feet on the floor than I-70 didn't make it farther into the city.
I bet it made him really mad when I drove my Jeep into that parking lot to begin the final stretch I needed of I-70 to clinch the whole thing this past January. My dangerous vehicle was in Baltimore on I-70!
Chris
I, too, intentionally got off I-695 and detoured through Baltimore so I could start my westward trek on I-70 in that parking lot. My mom, who grew up in Kansas City and thus had always had a connection to I-70, was driving, and she thought it was really cool that the mighty I-70 in Kansas City got its start in a tiny parking lot in Baltimore.
And likewise for me when I found that information out having lived in two different cities along I-70. I needed to still clinch the portion from that awesome parking lot in Baltimore up to the PA Turnpike on this last trip. How great is it that I-70 starts at a parking lot in Baltimore!
Chris
From a roadfan standpoint? Its very neat.
From a motorist who wants to get somewhere standpoint? Its a disgrace.
A motorist who follows signs to Baltimore will be led onto I-695 to get to Baltimore. Big deal.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 23, 2021, 10:25:11 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 23, 2021, 05:23:37 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2021, 05:17:29 PM
Quote from: jayhawkco on April 23, 2021, 04:18:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 04:15:12 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 23, 2021, 04:09:51 PM
Wait the parking lot is in Baltimore! Take that highwaystar!
He doesn't care that the highway enters Baltimore city limits. He doesn't care that Baltimore on the sign is useful for getting people to their destination. He doesn't care that there are many other examples like it–even more egregious–all over the country. He doesn't care that drivers would be more confused if it were changed. He only wants it changed as a way of stomping his feet on the floor than I-70 didn't make it farther into the city.
I bet it made him really mad when I drove my Jeep into that parking lot to begin the final stretch I needed of I-70 to clinch the whole thing this past January. My dangerous vehicle was in Baltimore on I-70!
Chris
I, too, intentionally got off I-695 and detoured through Baltimore so I could start my westward trek on I-70 in that parking lot. My mom, who grew up in Kansas City and thus had always had a connection to I-70, was driving, and she thought it was really cool that the mighty I-70 in Kansas City got its start in a tiny parking lot in Baltimore.
And likewise for me when I found that information out having lived in two different cities along I-70. I needed to still clinch the portion from that awesome parking lot in Baltimore up to the PA Turnpike on this last trip. How great is it that I-70 starts at a parking lot in Baltimore!
Chris
From a roadfan standpoint? Its very neat.
From a motorist who wants to get somewhere standpoint? Its a disgrace.
That parking lot isn't stopping anyone from getting somewhere. I-695 lists Baltimore as a control city from I-70. Baltimore Beltway is a stupid idea for a control city btw. Someone will come along and think oh the Baltimore Beltway, what the hell? I-70 is heading toward Baltimore and Baltimore is Maryland's largest city so no it's not a disgrace.
At the eastern end of US-10 the control cities for SB I-75 use to be Flint and Detroit, skipping over Saginaw which I-75 still hasn't reached.
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.5954794,-83.958914,3a,75y,103.17h,92.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2d71G43DfCgn5MLnl1fX9A!2e0!7i3328!8i1664
Now it's been changed to Saginaw.
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.5955067,-83.958906,3a,75y,103.17h,92.8t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sBudlPt9hfVwEH0i0a8bthw!2e0!5s20190901T000000!7i16384!8i8192
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 23, 2021, 10:25:11 PM
From a motorist who wants to get somewhere standpoint? Its a disgrace.
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 23, 2021, 10:42:32 PM
That parking lot isn't stopping anyone from getting somewhere.
Yep, there's the summary of this conversation.
Quote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 01:07:50 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 23, 2021, 10:25:11 PM
From a motorist who wants to get somewhere standpoint? Its a disgrace.
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 23, 2021, 10:42:32 PM
That parking lot isn't stopping anyone from getting somewhere.
Yep, there's the summary of this conversation.
And we are done here.
Oh, we're never done. I'd be disappointed in us if this doesn't come up in some random thread five months from now.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 01:08:15 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 01:07:50 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 23, 2021, 10:25:11 PM
From a motorist who wants to get somewhere standpoint? Its a disgrace.
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 23, 2021, 10:42:32 PM
That parking lot isn't stopping anyone from getting somewhere.
Yep, there's the summary of this conversation.
And we are done here.
That parking lot isn't stopping anyone from getting somewhere. This is patently false, if you look at where the road was supposed to go its obvious that the parking lot prevents you from going to Baltimore as intended. And the argument that you "could always get there via some other roads" misses the point.
It's not patently false. Drivers going to Baltimore simply follow signs for Baltimore. Then they arrive at their destination.
If you're at the I-68/I-70 interchange, what's the fastest way to get to Baltimore? I-70 East
If you're at the I-70/I-81 interchange, what's the fastest way to get to Baltimore? I-70 East
If you're at the I-70/I-270 interchange, what's the fastest way to get to Baltimore? I-70 East
That's why Baltimore is signed for I-70 East. Doesn't matter if it goes past Baltimore, ends in Baltimore, or ends before Baltimore. Baltimore traffic takes I-70 East to get there.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 26, 2021, 03:02:18 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 01:08:15 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 01:07:50 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 23, 2021, 10:25:11 PM
From a motorist who wants to get somewhere standpoint? Its a disgrace.
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 23, 2021, 10:42:32 PM
That parking lot isn't stopping anyone from getting somewhere.
Yep, there's the summary of this conversation.
And we are done here.
That parking lot isn't stopping anyone from getting somewhere. This is patently false, if you look at where the road was supposed to go its obvious that the parking lot prevents you from going to Baltimore as intended. And the argument that you "could always get there via some other roads" misses the point.
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 26, 2021, 04:20:14 PM
If you're at the I-68/I-70 interchange, what's the fastest way to get to Baltimore? I-70 East
If you're at the I-70/I-81 interchange, what's the fastest way to get to Baltimore? I-70 East
If you're at the I-70/I-270 interchange, what's the fastest way to get to Baltimore? I-70 East
That's why Baltimore is signed for I-70 East. Doesn't matter if it goes past Baltimore, ends in Baltimore, or ends before Baltimore. Baltimore traffic takes I-70 East to get there.
:clap: :clap: :clap:
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 05:10:42 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 26, 2021, 03:02:18 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 01:08:15 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 01:07:50 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 23, 2021, 10:25:11 PM
From a motorist who wants to get somewhere standpoint? Its a disgrace.
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 23, 2021, 10:42:32 PM
That parking lot isn't stopping anyone from getting somewhere.
Yep, there's the summary of this conversation.
And we are done here.
That parking lot isn't stopping anyone from getting somewhere. This is patently false, if you look at where the road was supposed to go its obvious that the parking lot prevents you from going to Baltimore as intended. And the argument that you "could always get there via some other roads" misses the point.
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 26, 2021, 04:20:14 PM
If you're at the I-68/I-70 interchange, what's the fastest way to get to Baltimore? I-70 East
If you're at the I-70/I-81 interchange, what's the fastest way to get to Baltimore? I-70 East
If you're at the I-70/I-270 interchange, what's the fastest way to get to Baltimore? I-70 East
That's why Baltimore is signed for I-70 East. Doesn't matter if it goes past Baltimore, ends in Baltimore, or ends before Baltimore. Baltimore traffic takes I-70 East to get there.
:clap: :clap: :clap:
If you're at the I-68/I-70 interchange, what's the fastest way to get to Baltimore? I-70 East
If you're at the I-70/I-81 interchange, what's the fastest way to get to Baltimore? I-70 East
If you're at the I-70/I-270 interchange, what's the fastest way to get to Baltimore? I-70 East
What you fail to point out with all of these is that I-70 WILL NOT get you to Baltimore, you will have to use a combination of other routes in order to accomplish that.
If you're at the I-68/I-70 interchange, what's the fastest way to get to Harrisburg? I-70 East
If you're at the I-68/I-70 interchange, what's the fastest way to get to Washington? I-70 East
But does I-70 actually reach either city? Nope. And it never reaches Baltimore either.
Now we can have a clap.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 26, 2021, 06:44:21 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 05:10:42 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 26, 2021, 03:02:18 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 01:08:15 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 26, 2021, 01:07:50 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 23, 2021, 10:25:11 PM
From a motorist who wants to get somewhere standpoint? Its a disgrace.
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 23, 2021, 10:42:32 PM
That parking lot isn't stopping anyone from getting somewhere.
Yep, there's the summary of this conversation.
And we are done here.
That parking lot isn't stopping anyone from getting somewhere. This is patently false, if you look at where the road was supposed to go its obvious that the parking lot prevents you from going to Baltimore as intended. And the argument that you "could always get there via some other roads" misses the point.
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Quote from: cabiness42 on April 26, 2021, 04:20:14 PM
If you're at the I-68/I-70 interchange, what's the fastest way to get to Baltimore? I-70 East
If you're at the I-70/I-81 interchange, what's the fastest way to get to Baltimore? I-70 East
If you're at the I-70/I-270 interchange, what's the fastest way to get to Baltimore? I-70 East
That's why Baltimore is signed for I-70 East. Doesn't matter if it goes past Baltimore, ends in Baltimore, or ends before Baltimore. Baltimore traffic takes I-70 East to get there.
:clap: :clap: :clap:
If you're at the I-68/I-70 interchange, what's the fastest way to get to Baltimore? I-70 East
If you're at the I-70/I-81 interchange, what's the fastest way to get to Baltimore? I-70 East
If you're at the I-70/I-270 interchange, what's the fastest way to get to Baltimore? I-70 East
What you fail to point out with all of these is that I-70 WILL NOT get you to Baltimore, you will have to use a combination of other routes in order to accomplish that.
If you're at the I-68/I-70 interchange, what's the fastest way to get to Harrisburg? I-70 East
If you're at the I-68/I-70 interchange, what's the fastest way to get to Washington? I-70 East
But does I-70 actually reach either city? Nope. And it never reaches Baltimore either.
Now we can have a clap.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Sure, we could sign Washington. In fact, I do think that Washington could be added onto some signs on I-70 west of Fredrick.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 26, 2021, 06:44:21 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 05:10:42 PM
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
:clap: :clap: :clap:
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Because, apparently, we can convince people of our arguments by using lots of smileys...
BALTIMORE is perfectly appropriate, even with I-70's strange endpoint.
:ded: :nod: :banghead: :pan: :fight: :rolleyes: :eyebrow: :wave: :-( :ninja: :whip: :-/ :angry: :evilgrin: :crazy:
I was gonna lay low in this thread, but living near an interstate that takes it a level further than this "argument," I gotta throw my two cents in the bag.
I-65 North from Indianapolis to just before its terminus is given Chicago. As many of us here know, I-65 doesn't get anywhere close to Chicago, ending about 20 miles short of the metro area. However, it serves its purpose:
It does feed into interstates that do go into the city, and are appropriately given that city as a control (I-80/94 and I-90). Hell, drivers are warned of this a few miles before the fact.
I-70 IN Baltimore does the same thing. It doesn't reach the control destination, but leads you into interstates that do and are signed appropriately.
I-24 west in Kentucky (St. Louis).
I-15 south in Las Vegas (Los Angeles).
I-355 north in Illinois (Rockford).
I-69 south in northern and central Indiana, for now (Indianapolis).
They all do the same thing that HighwayStar is harping about.
Control cities are used as references , and are not always "end all, be alls." It's not a "disgrace;" it's been the rule since well before most of us were born. It may not be in your image, but that's how it works now and will work in the future.
So just chill, "Ëśtil the next episode.
Quote from: nwi_navigator_1181 on April 26, 2021, 07:13:07 PM
I was gonna lay low in this thread, but living near an interstate that takes it a level further than this "argument," I gotta throw my two cents in the bag.
I-65 North from Indianapolis to just before its terminus is given Chicago. As many of us here know, I-65 doesn't get anywhere close to Chicago, ending about 20 miles short of the metro area. However, it serves its purpose:
It does feed into interstates that do go into the city, and are appropriately given that city as a control (I-80/94 and I-90). Hell, drivers are warned of this a few miles before the fact.
I-70 IN Baltimore does the same thing. It doesn't reach the control destination, but leads you into interstates that do and are signed appropriately.
I-24 west in Kentucky (St. Louis).
I-15 south in Las Vegas (Los Angeles).
I-355 north in Illinois (Rockford).
I-69 south in northern and central Indiana, for now (Indianapolis).
They all do the same thing that HighwayStar is harping about.
Control cities are used as references , and are not always "end all, be alls." It's not a "disgrace;" it's been the rule since well before most of us were born. It may not be in your image, but that's how it works now and will work in the future.
So just chill, "Ëśtil the next episode.
Maybe Highwaystar just doesn't like Park and Rides.
Here's another - I-40 doesn't even enter Wilmington, NC. It dumps you onto US-117 north of the city.
I can't believe that, for once, I'm actually hoping for NE2 to show up and make a irreverent shitpost that derails the discussion at hand.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 07:41:07 PM
I can't believe that, for once, I'm actually hoping for NE2 to show up and make a irreverent shitpost that derails the discussion at hand.
I once tried to lock a thread by mentioning DST. (Due to hostile feedback, I'm not doing it again.)
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 06:46:26 PM
Sure, we could sign Washington. In fact, I do think that Washington could be added onto some signs on I-70 west of Frederick.
It already is in several locations:
-Breezewood: PennDOT lists both Bmore & DC (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9995289,-78.2380981,3a,75y,278.07h,89.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sthaN70HJrxjMk-mm2mo7MA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en) on the signs above
the great intersection. PTC signage used to list both (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.986558,-78.3029051,3a,41.2y,130.87h,90.61t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sd2KHC8n0AagWv8cIXo7cLw!2e0!5s20180601T000000!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en), but after recent sign replacements only Bmore is listed on the main signs (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9865532,-78.302899,3a,43.4y,131.18h,91.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPR2fsbZWY4-JW_XlGRNXEg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en) with DC relegated to an auxiliary ground-mounted sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9827266,-78.2840176,3a,75y,108.22h,79.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4Ri75yiIy0ufyKyYs_gJUg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en).
-Between Hagerstown & Frederick, EB post-interchange mileage signs use a local town at the next exit on top, Frederick in the middle, and alternate between Bmore (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6047657,-77.7192626,3a,41.3y,119.61h,86.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGOi3RFrT6DnejeQKOHwYpQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en) & DC (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5780525,-77.6285922,3a,75y,175.66h,85.76t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTtp1j-Qfs9qW8kwur0ZZHA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en) on the bottom. (EDIT: And here's one with both Bmore & DC! (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.5996852,-77.6654732,3a,75y,135.85h,86.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sR5N0uACjvStNdK71o5z91w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!5m1!1e1?hl=en))
-At exit 48 (signed as the main EB Frederick exit despite no longer being the fastest way to downtown), the pull-thru for 70 lists both Bmore & DC (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4329923,-77.4896321,3a,45.7y,190.98h,87.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIwgYCShFEKy5hwoZcjeCQw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en).
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 26, 2021, 06:44:21 PM
What you fail to point out with all of these is that I-70 WILL NOT get you to Baltimore, you will have to use a combination of other routes in order to accomplish that.
That doesn't matter. Baltimore is a common destination for people in central Maryland. I-70 East is the road they get on to go toward Baltimore. Then you have those other routes signed for Baltimore to get people the rest of the way.
When EB I-70 splits with US 40 at Albeth Heights, signing I-70 for Woodlawn and US 40 for Baltimore because US 40 goes there and Baltimore doesn't would lead to a lot of people wasting time taking a surface road all the way into Baltimore from there.
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 26, 2021, 07:49:32 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 06:46:26 PM
Sure, we could sign Washington. In fact, I do think that Washington could be added onto some signs on I-70 west of Frederick.
It already is in several locations:
-Breezewood: PennDOT lists both Bmore & DC on the signs above the great intersection. PTC signage used to list both, but after recent sign replacements only Bmore is listed on the main signs with DC relegated to an auxiliary ground-mounted sign.
-Between Hagerstown & Frederick, EB post-interchange mileage signs use a local town at the next exit on top, Frederick in the middle, and alternate between Bmore & DC on the bottom.
-At exit 48 (signed as the main EB Frederick exit despite no longer being the fastest way to downtown), the pull-thru for 70 lists both Bmore & DC.
(Will edit in some GMSV links later)
Yes, I think DC should be on signs with two control cities. And I-70 doesn't even enter metro DC.
Quote from: 1 on April 26, 2021, 07:42:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 07:41:07 PM
I can't believe that, for once, I'm actually hoping for NE2 to show up and make a irreverent shitpost that derails the discussion at hand.
I once tried to lock a thread by mentioning DST. (Due to hostile feedback, I'm not doing it again.)
That's one for the ol' admin toolbox.
(https://i.imgur.com/aKGhU9q.png)
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 09:47:36 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 26, 2021, 07:42:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 07:41:07 PM
I can't believe that, for once, I'm actually hoping for NE2 to show up and make a irreverent shitpost that derails the discussion at hand.
I once tried to lock a thread by mentioning DST. (Due to hostile feedback, I'm not doing it again.)
That's one for the ol' admin toolbox.
(https://i.imgur.com/aKGhU9q.png)
The 'Remove Topic' button may be worth pressing at this point as we've been stuck on the Baltimore topic since page 2 of the thread. We're now on page 5, and I'm not sure if we'll move on from it.
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 26, 2021, 09:52:54 PM
... we've been stuck on the Baltimore topic since page 2 of the thread, and we're now on page 5.
Page 5 for us, but page 10 for most users. :crazy:
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 26, 2021, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 09:47:36 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 26, 2021, 07:42:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 07:41:07 PM
I can't believe that, for once, I'm actually hoping for NE2 to show up and make a irreverent shitpost that derails the discussion at hand.
I once tried to lock a thread by mentioning DST. (Due to hostile feedback, I'm not doing it again.)
That's one for the ol' admin toolbox.
(https://i.imgur.com/aKGhU9q.png)
The 'Remove Topic' button may be worth pressing at this point as we've been stuck on the Baltimore topic since page 2 of the thread. We're now on page 5, and I'm not sure if we'll move on from it.
Some people have tried to get back on topic, and we should. We just need Highwaystar to go away or for us to start ignoring him. Also, I don't like when topics are removed as it's interesting to read old AAroads posts that were drama-filled.
I-65 south in Kentucky does vary from exit to exit between Bowling Green and Nashville once you get past Elizabethtown. They even do it on the distance signs (Nashville falls off until you get within 20 miles or so of Bowling Green).
I-80 west goes from Chicago (on the Ohio Turnpike/ITR), to Des Moines (leaving the Indiana Toll Road in Lake Station), back to Chicago (because of its multiplex with I-94), then finally to the more vague Iowa until crossing the Mississippi River and getting the Des Moines control back. This doesn't even include the Illinois practice of assigning secondary controls on the non-interstate interchanges.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 09:55:14 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 26, 2021, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 09:47:36 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 26, 2021, 07:42:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 07:41:07 PM
I can't believe that, for once, I'm actually hoping for NE2 to show up and make a irreverent shitpost that derails the discussion at hand.
I once tried to lock a thread by mentioning DST. (Due to hostile feedback, I'm not doing it again.)
That's one for the ol' admin toolbox.
(https://i.imgur.com/aKGhU9q.png)
The 'Remove Topic' button may be worth pressing at this point as we've been stuck on the Baltimore topic since page 2 of the thread. We're now on page 5, and I'm not sure if we'll move on from it.
Some people have tried to get back on topic, and we should. We just need Highwaystar to go away or for us to start ignoring him. Also, I don't like when topics are removed as it's interesting to read old AAroads posts that were drama-filled.
Generally, it's considered very bad form to resurrect a ten-year old thread anyway, especially if you haven't contributed anything substantially new. I'm not entirely sure where that convention comes from, as it doesn't seem to really hurt anything, but I am a bit surprised it hasn't yet been invoked as a reason to kill this one. :hmmm:
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 09:55:14 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 26, 2021, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 09:47:36 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 26, 2021, 07:42:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 07:41:07 PM
I can't believe that, for once, I'm actually hoping for NE2 to show up and make a irreverent shitpost that derails the discussion at hand.
I once tried to lock a thread by mentioning DST. (Due to hostile feedback, I'm not doing it again.)
That's one for the ol' admin toolbox.
(https://i.imgur.com/aKGhU9q.png)
The 'Remove Topic' button may be worth pressing at this point as we've been stuck on the Baltimore topic since page 2 of the thread. We're now on page 5, and I'm not sure if we'll move on from it.
Some people have tried to get back on topic, and we should. We just need Highwaystar to go away or for us to start ignoring him. Also, I don't like when topics are removed as it's interesting to read old AAroads posts that were drama-filled.
My point is entirely germane to the topic "Changing Control Cities", that is why I brought it up. If you have other examples by all means contribute them, but don't pretend that discussing the case of Baltimore/DC is off topic.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 27, 2021, 11:05:28 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 09:55:14 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 26, 2021, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 09:47:36 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 26, 2021, 07:42:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 07:41:07 PM
I can't believe that, for once, I'm actually hoping for NE2 to show up and make a irreverent shitpost that derails the discussion at hand.
I once tried to lock a thread by mentioning DST. (Due to hostile feedback, I'm not doing it again.)
That's one for the ol' admin toolbox.
(https://i.imgur.com/aKGhU9q.png)
The 'Remove Topic' button may be worth pressing at this point as we've been stuck on the Baltimore topic since page 2 of the thread. We're now on page 5, and I'm not sure if we'll move on from it.
Some people have tried to get back on topic, and we should. We just need Highwaystar to go away or for us to start ignoring him. Also, I don't like when topics are removed as it's interesting to read old AAroads posts that were drama-filled.
My point is entirely germane to the topic "Changing Control Cities", that is why I brought it up. If you have other examples by all means contribute them, but don't pretend that discussing the case of Baltimore/DC is off topic.
You have argued for pages and pages your point. At some point, just give up.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 11:12:54 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 27, 2021, 11:05:28 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 09:55:14 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 26, 2021, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 09:47:36 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 26, 2021, 07:42:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 07:41:07 PM
I can't believe that, for once, I'm actually hoping for NE2 to show up and make a irreverent shitpost that derails the discussion at hand.
I once tried to lock a thread by mentioning DST. (Due to hostile feedback, I'm not doing it again.)
That's one for the ol' admin toolbox.
(https://i.imgur.com/aKGhU9q.png)
The 'Remove Topic' button may be worth pressing at this point as we've been stuck on the Baltimore topic since page 2 of the thread. We're now on page 5, and I'm not sure if we'll move on from it.
Some people have tried to get back on topic, and we should. We just need Highwaystar to go away or for us to start ignoring him. Also, I don't like when topics are removed as it's interesting to read old AAroads posts that were drama-filled.
My point is entirely germane to the topic "Changing Control Cities", that is why I brought it up. If you have other examples by all means contribute them, but don't pretend that discussing the case of Baltimore/DC is off topic.
You have argued for pages and pages your point. At some point, just give up.
You are free to just agree with me you know :-D
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 27, 2021, 11:14:35 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 11:12:54 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 27, 2021, 11:05:28 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 09:55:14 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 26, 2021, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 09:47:36 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 26, 2021, 07:42:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 07:41:07 PM
I can't believe that, for once, I'm actually hoping for NE2 to show up and make a irreverent shitpost that derails the discussion at hand.
I once tried to lock a thread by mentioning DST. (Due to hostile feedback, I'm not doing it again.)
That's one for the ol' admin toolbox.
(https://i.imgur.com/aKGhU9q.png)
The 'Remove Topic' button may be worth pressing at this point as we've been stuck on the Baltimore topic since page 2 of the thread. We're now on page 5, and I'm not sure if we'll move on from it.
Some people have tried to get back on topic, and we should. We just need Highwaystar to go away or for us to start ignoring him. Also, I don't like when topics are removed as it's interesting to read old AAroads posts that were drama-filled.
My point is entirely germane to the topic "Changing Control Cities", that is why I brought it up. If you have other examples by all means contribute them, but don't pretend that discussing the case of Baltimore/DC is off topic.
You have argued for pages and pages your point. At some point, just give up.
You are free to just agree with me you know :-D
I don't think anyone here does... your opinion on the Baltimore situation is truly unique.
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 27, 2021, 11:16:17 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 27, 2021, 11:14:35 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 11:12:54 AM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 27, 2021, 11:05:28 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 09:55:14 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 26, 2021, 09:52:54 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 09:47:36 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 26, 2021, 07:42:17 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 26, 2021, 07:41:07 PM
I can't believe that, for once, I'm actually hoping for NE2 to show up and make a irreverent shitpost that derails the discussion at hand.
I once tried to lock a thread by mentioning DST. (Due to hostile feedback, I'm not doing it again.)
That's one for the ol' admin toolbox.
(https://i.imgur.com/aKGhU9q.png)
The 'Remove Topic' button may be worth pressing at this point as we've been stuck on the Baltimore topic since page 2 of the thread. We're now on page 5, and I'm not sure if we'll move on from it.
Some people have tried to get back on topic, and we should. We just need Highwaystar to go away or for us to start ignoring him. Also, I don't like when topics are removed as it's interesting to read old AAroads posts that were drama-filled.
My point is entirely germane to the topic "Changing Control Cities", that is why I brought it up. If you have other examples by all means contribute them, but don't pretend that discussing the case of Baltimore/DC is off topic.
You have argued for pages and pages your point. At some point, just give up.
You are free to just agree with me you know :-D
I don't think anyone here does... your opinion on the Baltimore situation is truly unique.
Well every coalition starts with some guy in a bar I guess.
Quote from: empirestate on April 27, 2021, 10:33:34 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 26, 2021, 09:55:14 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 26, 2021, 09:52:54 PM
The 'Remove Topic' button may be worth pressing at this point as we've been stuck on the Baltimore topic since page 2 of the thread. We're now on page 5, and I'm not sure if we'll move on from it.
Some people have tried to get back on topic, and we should. We just need Highwaystar to go away or for us to start ignoring him. Also, I don't like when topics are removed as it's interesting to read old AAroads posts that were drama-filled.
Generally, it's considered very bad form to resurrect a ten-year old thread anyway, especially if you haven't contributed anything substantially new. I'm not entirely sure where that convention comes from, as it doesn't seem to really hurt anything, but I am a bit surprised it hasn't yet been invoked as a reason to kill this one. :hmmm:
Actually, the bump had nothing to do with Baltimore. It was, in fact, one of the most random bumps I've ever seen.
It will never not be funny that, after 10 years of inactivity, this was the bump (reply #41), and now we're at reply #250 and counting:
Quote from: roadman65 on April 14, 2021, 10:34:44 AM
https://goo.gl/maps/Tk4RvEETt8uNQq7m7
Why is Walt Whitman Bridge a pull through control on a route originating from where that particular bridge leads back to? Should be Williamstown- Atlantic City.
Another thing regarding Baltimore... it was never going to go to the "city center" anyways. It was going to connect to I-95 at Exit 51, west of Downtown, where ramp stubs still exist and are visible today.
It would cut off a mere not even 2 miles from the present I-695 to I-95 routing.
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 27, 2021, 11:50:04 AM
Another thing regarding Baltimore... it was never going to go to the "city center" anyways. It was going to connect to I-95 at Exit 51, west of Downtown, where ramp stubs still exist and are visible today.
It would cut off a mere not even 2 miles from the present I-695 to I-95 routing.
But it would effectively double the current A to B capacity, which is a massive difference in traffic.
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 27, 2021, 11:50:04 AM
Another thing regarding Baltimore... it was never going to go to the "city center" anyways. It was going to connect to I-95 at Exit 51, west of Downtown, where ramp stubs still exist and are visible today.
It would cut off a mere not even 2 miles from the present I-695 to I-95 routing.
Had it all been completed in Baltimore, I-170 would enter Baltimore's city center. With HighwayStar's reason for control cities, Baltimore would be signed for I-170, and not at all on I-70, which would probably get 'To I-95' or something similar.
HighwayStar:
↓ Repeated for emphasis ↓
Quote from: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 04:36:25 PM
Then, it seems to me, control cities do not actually serve the purpose you imagine them to.
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 27, 2021, 12:01:56 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 27, 2021, 11:50:04 AM
Another thing regarding Baltimore... it was never going to go to the "city center" anyways. It was going to connect to I-95 at Exit 51, west of Downtown, where ramp stubs still exist and are visible today.
It would cut off a mere not even 2 miles from the present I-695 to I-95 routing.
Had it all been completed in Baltimore, I-170 would enter Baltimore's city center. With HighwayStar's reason for control cities, Baltimore would be signed for I-170, and not at all on I-70, which would probably get 'To I-95' or something similar.
And then we're right back to square one :-D
To your point, though: I imagine Downtown would indeed be signed for I-170 departing I-70, and based on the rough location of the I-70/I-170 interchange being (to my understanding) where Baltimore Street crosses Gwynn Falls (https://www.google.com/maps/place/2900+W+Baltimore+St,+Baltimore,+MD+21229/@39.2793545,-76.6583649,14.96z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c81c98f9a9a3cd:0x143a1a1a0eb4c6d1!8m2!3d39.2870984!4d-76.6652925!5m1!1e1?hl=en), this is close enough to I-95 that an advance 1-or-2 mile sign could be used instead of a pull-thru "To I-95".
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 27, 2021, 12:01:56 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 27, 2021, 11:50:04 AM
Another thing regarding Baltimore... it was never going to go to the "city center" anyways. It was going to connect to I-95 at Exit 51, west of Downtown, where ramp stubs still exist and are visible today.
It would cut off a mere not even 2 miles from the present I-695 to I-95 routing.
Had it all been completed in Baltimore, I-170 would enter Baltimore's city center. With HighwayStar's reason for control cities, Baltimore would be signed for I-170, and not at all on I-70, which would probably get 'To I-95' or something similar.
No, you are misrepresenting my standard, I-70 would have been sufficiently serving Baltimore for it to carry the designation, which cannot be said of its current terminus.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 27, 2021, 04:47:42 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 27, 2021, 12:01:56 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 27, 2021, 11:50:04 AM
Another thing regarding Baltimore... it was never going to go to the "city center" anyways. It was going to connect to I-95 at Exit 51, west of Downtown, where ramp stubs still exist and are visible today.
It would cut off a mere not even 2 miles from the present I-695 to I-95 routing.
Had it all been completed in Baltimore, I-170 would enter Baltimore's city center. With HighwayStar's reason for control cities, Baltimore would be signed for I-170, and not at all on I-70, which would probably get 'To I-95' or something similar.
No, you are misrepresenting my standard, I-70 would have been sufficiently serving Baltimore for it to carry the designation, which cannot be said of its current terminus.
How does in not sufficiently serve Baltimore?
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 27, 2021, 04:47:42 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 27, 2021, 12:01:56 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 27, 2021, 11:50:04 AM
Another thing regarding Baltimore... it was never going to go to the "city center" anyways. It was going to connect to I-95 at Exit 51, west of Downtown, where ramp stubs still exist and are visible today.
It would cut off a mere not even 2 miles from the present I-695 to I-95 routing.
Had it all been completed in Baltimore, I-170 would enter Baltimore's city center. With HighwayStar's reason for control cities, Baltimore would be signed for I-170, and not at all on I-70, which would probably get 'To I-95' or something similar.
No, you are misrepresenting my standard, I-70 would have been sufficiently serving Baltimore for it to carry the designation, which cannot be said of its current terminus.
How does I-70 not reaching I-95 not sufficiently serve? It would be no different than the present I-695 to I-95. You can access it via the interstate highway system, it's a relatively direct route, and doesn't involve arterial routes.
Also you continuously act like Downtown is the only place people are going. How about the suburbs of the whole Baltimore-Washington region, which I-70 provides connectivity to via other interstate highways and freeways and even passes through some directly.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 27, 2021, 04:47:42 PM
I-70 would have been sufficiently serving Baltimore for it to carry the designation, which cannot be said of its current terminus.
What does "serve" mean in that context? Baltimore being on the sign helps drivers going to Baltimore
get to Baltimore.
Quote from: kphoger on April 23, 2021, 04:36:25 PM
Then, it seems to me, control cities do not actually serve the purpose you imagine them to.
Let's extend I-70 with a concurrency with I-695 and I-95 and replace I-395 with it, then I-70 would serve Baltimore! Problem solved!
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 04:55:12 PM
Let's extend I-70 with a concurrency with I-695 and I-95 and replace I-395 with it, then I-70 would serve Baltimore! Problem solved!
But current I-395 ends at Orioles Park several blocks away from both Downtown & Inner Harbor, does that sufficiently serve Baltimore?
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 27, 2021, 04:57:44 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 04:55:12 PM
Let's extend I-70 with a concurrency with I-695 and I-95 and replace I-395 with it, then I-70 would serve Baltimore! Problem solved!
But current I-395 ends at Orioles Park several blocks away from both Downtown & Inner Harbor, does that sufficiently serve Baltimore?
Guess we have to demolish the Baltimore Convention Center then so it can serve Baltimore!
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 04:55:12 PM
Let's extend I-70 with a concurrency with I-695 and I-95 and replace I-395 with it, then I-70 would serve Baltimore! Problem solved!
Better yet: extend I-70 north on I-695, terminate I-83 at I-695, then run I-70 down I-83 into downtown. That really solves the problem!
Quote from: FrCorySticha on April 27, 2021, 08:52:57 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 04:55:12 PM
Let's extend I-70 with a concurrency with I-695 and I-95 and replace I-395 with it, then I-70 would serve Baltimore! Problem solved!
Better yet: extend I-70 north on I-695, terminate I-83 at I-695, then run I-70 down I-83 into downtown. That really solves the problem!
Why not have it both ways?
FrCorySticha's idea shall be I-70N, and
Roadgeekteen's idea shall be I-70S. This way, downtown Baltimore is literally surrounded by I-70!
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 27, 2021, 09:15:50 PM
Quote from: FrCorySticha on April 27, 2021, 08:52:57 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 04:55:12 PM
Let's extend I-70 with a concurrency with I-695 and I-95 and replace I-395 with it, then I-70 would serve Baltimore! Problem solved!
Better yet: extend I-70 north on I-695, terminate I-83 at I-695, then run I-70 down I-83 into downtown. That really solves the problem!
Why not have it both ways? FrCorySticha’s idea shall be I-70N, and Roadgeekteen’s idea shall be I-70S. This way, downtown Baltimore is literally surrounded by I-70!
They should merge in Baltimore and form I-70L (I-70 loop).
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 04:59:01 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 27, 2021, 04:57:44 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 04:55:12 PM
Let's extend I-70 with a concurrency with I-695 and I-95 and replace I-395 with it, then I-70 would serve Baltimore! Problem solved!
But current I-395 ends at Orioles Park several blocks away from both Downtown & Inner Harbor, does that sufficiently serve Baltimore?
Guess we have to demolish the Baltimore Convention Center then so it can serve Baltimore!
There are plenty of ways around total demolition, cut and cover, deep tunnel, etc.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 27, 2021, 11:10:10 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 04:59:01 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 27, 2021, 04:57:44 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 04:55:12 PM
Let's extend I-70 with a concurrency with I-695 and I-95 and replace I-395 with it, then I-70 would serve Baltimore! Problem solved!
But current I-395 ends at Orioles Park several blocks away from both Downtown & Inner Harbor, does that sufficiently serve Baltimore?
Guess we have to demolish the Baltimore Convention Center then so it can serve Baltimore!
There are plenty of ways around total demolition, cut and cover, deep tunnel, etc.
:pan:
Wow Baltimore is a popular city these days. This is the second thread that the city is being argued on for control city status. The other thread lacks Baltimore as the NJ Turnpike wants to use Wilmington over Baltimore. This one has Baltimore, but should lack it.
So we have Baltimore being preserved and needed for both I-70 and the NJ Turnpike.
Interesting and more so with one user in both discussions.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 27, 2021, 11:10:10 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 04:59:01 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 27, 2021, 04:57:44 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 27, 2021, 04:55:12 PM
Let's extend I-70 with a concurrency with I-695 and I-95 and replace I-395 with it, then I-70 would serve Baltimore! Problem solved!
But current I-395 ends at Orioles Park several blocks away from both Downtown & Inner Harbor, does that sufficiently serve Baltimore?
Guess we have to demolish the Baltimore Convention Center then so it can serve Baltimore!
There are plenty of ways around total demolition, cut and cover, deep tunnel, etc.
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a47mzQw_460s.jpg)
This thing has ceased being a dead horse being beaten, and is more like a cat on its fifth life.
No one else is going to agree with HighwayStar's contention. He's a chorus of one, swimming upstream against a forceful tide. I don't think he's going to change anyone's mind with his whackadoodle notion that I-70 doesn't serve Baltimore.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 28, 2021, 07:12:35 PM
This thing has ceased being a dead horse being beaten, and is more like a cat on its fifth life.
No one else is going to agree with HighwayStar's contention. He's a chorus of one, swimming upstream against a forceful tide. I don't think he's going to change anyone's mind with his whackadoodle notion that I-70 doesn't serve Baltimore.
We should move on.
Couldn't we just annex Baltimore into Woodlawn and make Woodlawn the control city?
Quote from: webny99 on April 27, 2021, 11:31:21 AM
Actually, the bump had nothing to do with Baltimore. It was, in fact, one of the most random bumps I've ever seen.
Right–as I say, not contributing anything new. (Or at least not anything that couldn't be covered by a more recent thread.) So I expected to see that used as a pretext to close things down once the Baltimore idea came up.
I will say, while I don't agree with HighwayStar any more than the rest of us do, I do know what it's like to have an idea in one's head that is firmly rooted there and not likely to be budged by outside persuasion. In my experience, this tends to be much more frustrating for the persuaders, and so far that seems to be the case here too. So I'd just recommend to the persuaders, assume that the persuasion will ultimately be unsuccessful, and judge from there whether you want to elevate the stakes of the discussion to the point where you become upset about it. If the outcome is critical, you may find it's worth it to do so, but for most people I'd wager the opposite is true.
Quote from: Occidental Tourist on April 29, 2021, 01:08:20 AM
Couldn't we just annex Baltimore into Woodlawn and make Woodlawn the control city?
Baltimore should annex all of Maryland so I-70 would well serve Baltimore.
I-79's control city should not be Pittsburgh. It should be Cranberry if your going north and Washington if your going south.
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 10:40:28 AM
I-79's control city should not be Pittsburgh. It should be Cranberry if your going north and Washington if your going south.
:banghead:
Also I-79 doesn't hit the city limits of Washington either (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Washington,+PA+15301/@40.1788243,-80.2709877,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x8835ad85b9259631:0x48644ecd2e6d32f!8m2!3d40.17396!4d-80.2461714!5m1!1e1?hl=en), so guess we gotta skip straight to
Morgantown Fairmont!
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 29, 2021, 11:04:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 10:40:28 AM
I-79's control city should not be Pittsburgh. It should be Cranberry if your going north and Washington if your going south.
:banghead:
Also I-79 doesn't hit the city limits of Washington either (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Washington,+PA+15301/@40.1788243,-80.2709877,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x8835ad85b9259631:0x48644ecd2e6d32f!8m2!3d40.17396!4d-80.2461714!5m1!1e1?hl=en), so guess we gotta skip straight to Morgantown Fairmont!
The city limits test is not really meant to be applied that way. Since the ramp is 1.1 miles from the city center, and the town is very small, that seems like an acceptable level of service.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reactiongifs.com%2Fr%2F2tYt6V9.gif&hash=a61225cbbc85016d96caaedc0149a933b650950b)
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 29, 2021, 11:25:28 AM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 29, 2021, 11:04:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 10:40:28 AM
I-79's control city should not be Pittsburgh. It should be Cranberry if your going north and Washington if your going south.
:banghead:
Also I-79 doesn't hit the city limits of Washington either (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Washington,+PA+15301/@40.1788243,-80.2709877,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x8835ad85b9259631:0x48644ecd2e6d32f!8m2!3d40.17396!4d-80.2461714!5m1!1e1?hl=en), so guess we gotta skip straight to Morgantown Fairmont!
The city limits test is not really meant to be applied that way. Since the ramp is 1.1 miles from the city center, and the town is very small, that seems like an acceptable level of service.
But it doesn't enter the city limits, therefore it is not an appropriate control city, according to someone's logic.
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 29, 2021, 12:43:23 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 29, 2021, 11:25:28 AM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 29, 2021, 11:04:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 10:40:28 AM
I-79's control city should not be Pittsburgh. It should be Cranberry if your going north and Washington if your going south.
:banghead:
Also I-79 doesn't hit the city limits of Washington either (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Washington,+PA+15301/@40.1788243,-80.2709877,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x8835ad85b9259631:0x48644ecd2e6d32f!8m2!3d40.17396!4d-80.2461714!5m1!1e1?hl=en), so guess we gotta skip straight to Morgantown Fairmont!
The city limits test is not really meant to be applied that way. Since the ramp is 1.1 miles from the city center, and the town is very small, that seems like an acceptable level of service.
But it doesn't enter the city limits, therefore it is not an appropriate control city, according to someone's logic.
That wasn't his argument. It was that it got nowhere near downtown. (I-70
does enter Baltimore city limits.)
Quote from: 1 on April 29, 2021, 12:45:25 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 29, 2021, 12:43:23 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 29, 2021, 11:25:28 AM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 29, 2021, 11:04:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 10:40:28 AM
I-79's control city should not be Pittsburgh. It should be Cranberry if your going north and Washington if your going south.
:banghead:
Also I-79 doesn't hit the city limits of Washington either (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Washington,+PA+15301/@40.1788243,-80.2709877,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x8835ad85b9259631:0x48644ecd2e6d32f!8m2!3d40.17396!4d-80.2461714!5m1!1e1?hl=en), so guess we gotta skip straight to Morgantown Fairmont!
The city limits test is not really meant to be applied that way. Since the ramp is 1.1 miles from the city center, and the town is very small, that seems like an acceptable level of service.
But it doesn't enter the city limits, therefore it is not an appropriate control city, according to someone's logic.
That wasn't his argument. It was that it got nowhere near downtown. (I-70 does enter Baltimore city limits.)
Correct. The city limits point was actually introduced by someone else and I specifically pointed out that it was immaterial.
With the way city limits are defined and drawn it is not possible to use them as the sole or even main metric of defining what should constitute a control city.
A small city with tightly drawn limits (ie. Washington) may be much better served by a highway slightly outside those limits than the case of a large city with generously drawn boundaries where the highway barely enters on a suburban periphery.
I-395's North's control city coming off of CT 2 East should not be Providence. I-395 comes nowhere near Providence, and it is never used as a control anywhere on the mainline (and who uses CT 2 to get from Hartford to Providence?). It really should be Worcester everywhere from Exit 11 northward, and that includes on CT 2 (Plainfield is way too small to be a control, as it is on I-95 at the split). However, New Haven southbound for I-395 south of Norwich is fine, even though it doesn't come within 40 miles of New Haven as most traffic defaults onto I-95 South (although MassDOT uses New London for Exit 90 on the Mass Pike); it's too short of a distance between Norwich and the CT 32 connector to bother using New London.
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 10:40:28 AM
I-79's control city should not be Pittsburgh. It should be Cranberry if your going north and Washington if your going south.
Given that I have never heard of either of these places, that seems like a bad idea.
Quote from: US 89 on April 29, 2021, 01:01:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 10:40:28 AM
I-79's control city should not be Pittsburgh. It should be Cranberry if your going north and Washington if your going south.
Given that I have never heard of either of these places, that seems like a bad idea.
Never heard of Cranberry, and using it as a control city is ridiculous.
Washington, PA is medium-sized; it wouldn't be that unreasonable past Pittsburgh, as long as the state name is included to avoid confusion with Washington DC. (If the city in that location had a unique name, you might have recognized it, but only might.)
Quote from: 1 on April 29, 2021, 01:05:33 PM
Quote from: US 89 on April 29, 2021, 01:01:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 10:40:28 AM
I-79's control city should not be Pittsburgh. It should be Cranberry if your going north and Washington if your going south.
Given that I have never heard of either of these places, that seems like a bad idea.
Never heard of Cranberry, and using it as a control city is ridiculous.
Washington, PA is medium-sized; it wouldn't be that unreasonable past Pittsburgh, as long as the state name is included to avoid confusion with Washington DC. (If the city in that location had a unique name, you might have recognized it, but only might.)
Its far enough from DC that it should not be an issue. Besides, Washington DC should always appear as "Washington, DC" or "Washington, Dist. of C", or "Washington, District of Columbia" anyway.
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 29, 2021, 11:04:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 10:40:28 AM
I-79's control city should not be Pittsburgh. It should be Cranberry if your going north and Washington if your going south.
:banghead:
Also I-79 doesn't hit the city limits of Washington either (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Washington,+PA+15301/@40.1788243,-80.2709877,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x8835ad85b9259631:0x48644ecd2e6d32f!8m2!3d40.17396!4d-80.2461714!5m1!1e1?hl=en), so guess we gotta skip straight to Morgantown Fairmont!
Well it is important since its intersection with I-70.
Quote from: US 89 on April 29, 2021, 01:01:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 10:40:28 AM
I-79's control city should not be Pittsburgh. It should be Cranberry if your going north and Washington if your going south.
Given that I have never heard of either of these places, that seems like a bad idea.
They are both gross suburbs of gross Pittsburgh. In Cranberry I-79 has an intersection with I-76. In Washington, it has an intersection with I-70.
Considering it's Pennsylvania, I wouldn't be surprised if Cranberry gets signed in the future. They have Hazleton as a control for I-81 NB instead of much larger Scranton, just because it's at a junction with I-80.
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 29, 2021, 01:44:39 PM
Considering it's Pennsylvania, I wouldn't be surprised if Cranberry gets signed in the future. They have Hazleton as a control for I-81 NB instead of much larger Scranton, just because it's at a junction with I-80.
PA should condemn the city of Pittsburgh and Allegheny County. It is like if a senile decrepit woman became a town.
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 01:38:39 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 29, 2021, 11:04:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 10:40:28 AM
I-79's control city should not be Pittsburgh. It should be Cranberry if your going north and Washington if your going south.
:banghead:
Also I-79 doesn't hit the city limits of Washington either (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Washington,+PA+15301/@40.1788243,-80.2709877,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x8835ad85b9259631:0x48644ecd2e6d32f!8m2!3d40.17396!4d-80.2461714!5m1!1e1?hl=en), so guess we gotta skip straight to Morgantown Fairmont!
Well it is important since its intersection with I-70.
Ok, so by that same token isn't Pittsburgh important because of the intersections with I-376 & I-279?
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 01:46:48 PM
PA should condemn the city of Pittsburgh and Allegheny County. It is like if a senile decrepit woman became a town.
Yikes, did Pittsburgh steal your lunch money or something?
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 29, 2021, 01:51:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 01:38:39 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 29, 2021, 11:04:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 10:40:28 AM
I-79's control city should not be Pittsburgh. It should be Cranberry if your going north and Washington if your going south.
:banghead:
Also I-79 doesn't hit the city limits of Washington either (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Washington,+PA+15301/@40.1788243,-80.2709877,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x8835ad85b9259631:0x48644ecd2e6d32f!8m2!3d40.17396!4d-80.2461714!5m1!1e1?hl=en), so guess we gotta skip straight to Morgantown Fairmont!
Well it is important since its intersection with I-70.
Ok, so by that same token isn't Pittsburgh important because of the intersections with I-376 & I-279?
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 01:46:48 PM
PA should condemn the city of Pittsburgh and Allegheny County. It is like if a senile decrepit woman became a town.
Yikes, did Pittsburgh steal your lunch money or something?
Pittsburgh ruined the first bit of my life. It is a depressed disgusting decrepit town that is a curse
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 01:53:13 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 29, 2021, 01:51:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 01:38:39 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 29, 2021, 11:04:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 10:40:28 AM
I-79's control city should not be Pittsburgh. It should be Cranberry if your going north and Washington if your going south.
:banghead:
Also I-79 doesn't hit the city limits of Washington either (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Washington,+PA+15301/@40.1788243,-80.2709877,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x8835ad85b9259631:0x48644ecd2e6d32f!8m2!3d40.17396!4d-80.2461714!5m1!1e1?hl=en), so guess we gotta skip straight to Morgantown Fairmont!
Well it is important since its intersection with I-70.
Ok, so by that same token isn't Pittsburgh important because of the intersections with I-376 & I-279?
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 01:46:48 PM
PA should condemn the city of Pittsburgh and Allegheny County. It is like if a senile decrepit woman became a town.
Yikes, did Pittsburgh steal your lunch money or something?
Pittsburgh ruined the first bit of my life. It is a depressed disgusting decrepit town that is a curse
Well, I'll give you this: it is a very strange/weird and rather depressing area. The way it's set up, with intensely crowded valley areas, creepy old houses/towns (like run-down old, not charming old), and an illogical level of general disorganization. Ironically, downtown Pittsburgh is actually very clean and modern, it's the rest of the metro area that's weird, dirty and old. Just my 0.02.
It's not the worst place in America by any means, but it's one of the oddest big cities I've visited. Cincinnati in another one that seems a little off to me.
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 29, 2021, 02:33:48 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 01:53:13 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 29, 2021, 01:51:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 01:38:39 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 29, 2021, 11:04:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 10:40:28 AM
I-79's control city should not be Pittsburgh. It should be Cranberry if your going north and Washington if your going south.
:banghead:
Also I-79 doesn't hit the city limits of Washington either (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Washington,+PA+15301/@40.1788243,-80.2709877,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x8835ad85b9259631:0x48644ecd2e6d32f!8m2!3d40.17396!4d-80.2461714!5m1!1e1?hl=en), so guess we gotta skip straight to Morgantown Fairmont!
Well it is important since its intersection with I-70.
Ok, so by that same token isn't Pittsburgh important because of the intersections with I-376 & I-279?
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 01:46:48 PM
PA should condemn the city of Pittsburgh and Allegheny County. It is like if a senile decrepit woman became a town.
Yikes, did Pittsburgh steal your lunch money or something?
Pittsburgh ruined the first bit of my life. It is a depressed disgusting decrepit town that is a curse
Well, I'll give you this: it is a very strange/weird and rather depressing area. The way it's set up, with intensely crowded valley areas, creepy old houses/towns (like run-down old, not charming old), and an illogical level of general disorganization. Ironically, downtown Pittsburgh is actually very clean and modern, it's the rest of the metro area that's weird, dirty and old. Just my 0.02.
It's not the worst place in America by any means, but it's one of the oddest big cities I've visited. Cincinnati in another one that seems a little off to me.
In defense of Pittsburgh, it is a classic rustbelt town. They got screwed over by bad economic, trade, industrial, fiscal, environmental, and other policies that were made by the bureaucrats in Washington. Its really a sad place to see through that lens.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 29, 2021, 02:41:13 PM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 29, 2021, 02:33:48 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 01:53:13 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 29, 2021, 01:51:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 01:38:39 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 29, 2021, 11:04:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 10:40:28 AM
I-79's control city should not be Pittsburgh. It should be Cranberry if your going north and Washington if your going south.
:banghead:
Also I-79 doesn't hit the city limits of Washington either (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Washington,+PA+15301/@40.1788243,-80.2709877,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x8835ad85b9259631:0x48644ecd2e6d32f!8m2!3d40.17396!4d-80.2461714!5m1!1e1?hl=en), so guess we gotta skip straight to Morgantown Fairmont!
Well it is important since its intersection with I-70.
Ok, so by that same token isn't Pittsburgh important because of the intersections with I-376 & I-279?
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 01:46:48 PM
PA should condemn the city of Pittsburgh and Allegheny County. It is like if a senile decrepit woman became a town.
Yikes, did Pittsburgh steal your lunch money or something?
Pittsburgh ruined the first bit of my life. It is a depressed disgusting decrepit town that is a curse
Well, I'll give you this: it is a very strange/weird and rather depressing area. The way it's set up, with intensely crowded valley areas, creepy old houses/towns (like run-down old, not charming old), and an illogical level of general disorganization. Ironically, downtown Pittsburgh is actually very clean and modern, it's the rest of the metro area that's weird, dirty and old. Just my 0.02.
It's not the worst place in America by any means, but it's one of the oddest big cities I've visited. Cincinnati in another one that seems a little off to me.
In defense of Pittsburgh, it is a classic rustbelt town. They got screwed over by bad economic, trade, industrial, fiscal, environmental, and other policies that were made by the bureaucrats in Washington. Its really a sad place to see through that lens.
Agreed on all points. But, to an outsider, it's just weird - for reasons that have historical reasons. For example, I had a project in an area around Hamar and Fox Chapel. The former is a crowded old mill/mining town along a river, the latter is a very wealthy suburb. Hamar is as densely packed as any big city, until you get to the hillsides which are wooded. Fox Chapel is wealthy with large houses on large lots atop a plateau. In between the land is steep and some of it is still used to mine coal. And, in the middle of the trees, along a ravine (and quite close to the state highway) are all these row houses that look as ghetto as anything in Philly. You have this in an otherwise wooded rural to suburban area. And I saw stuff like this all over the area. It's as if nobody every considered the concept of urban planning or zoning. Apparently, the row houses are former tenements for the miners who worked on old mines in the area.
It's interesting but very strange to see as you drive around.
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 01:53:13 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 29, 2021, 01:51:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 01:38:39 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 29, 2021, 11:04:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 10:40:28 AM
I-79's control city should not be Pittsburgh. It should be Cranberry if your going north and Washington if your going south.
:banghead:
Also I-79 doesn't hit the city limits of Washington either (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Washington,+PA+15301/@40.1788243,-80.2709877,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x8835ad85b9259631:0x48644ecd2e6d32f!8m2!3d40.17396!4d-80.2461714!5m1!1e1?hl=en), so guess we gotta skip straight to Morgantown Fairmont!
Well it is important since its intersection with I-70.
Ok, so by that same token isn't Pittsburgh important because of the intersections with I-376 & I-279?
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 01:46:48 PM
PA should condemn the city of Pittsburgh and Allegheny County. It is like if a senile decrepit woman became a town.
Yikes, did Pittsburgh steal your lunch money or something?
Pittsburgh ruined the first bit of my life. It is a depressed disgusting decrepit town that is a curse
So it shouldn't be a control city? Also Pittsburgh is much better than it used to be, especially downtown.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 03:26:39 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 01:53:13 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 29, 2021, 01:51:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 01:38:39 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 29, 2021, 11:04:55 AM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 10:40:28 AM
I-79's control city should not be Pittsburgh. It should be Cranberry if your going north and Washington if your going south.
:banghead:
Also I-79 doesn't hit the city limits of Washington either (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Washington,+PA+15301/@40.1788243,-80.2709877,14z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x8835ad85b9259631:0x48644ecd2e6d32f!8m2!3d40.17396!4d-80.2461714!5m1!1e1?hl=en), so guess we gotta skip straight to Morgantown Fairmont!
Well it is important since its intersection with I-70.
Ok, so by that same token isn't Pittsburgh important because of the intersections with I-376 & I-279?
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 01:46:48 PM
PA should condemn the city of Pittsburgh and Allegheny County. It is like if a senile decrepit woman became a town.
Yikes, did Pittsburgh steal your lunch money or something?
Pittsburgh ruined the first bit of my life. It is a depressed disgusting decrepit town that is a curse
So it shouldn't be a control city? Also Pittsburgh is much better than it used to be, especially downtown.
Move to McKeesport and the Eastern areas. I am sadly from that disgusting area, and my childhood was ruined because of the school system and everything else. Gunshots all the time, kidnapping every day, and my parents still live in Pittsburgh and there were two kidnappings this week. It is disgusting. I remember some kid said his parents were drug dealers you should never stand up for disgusting Pittsburgh. If a decrepit senile old woman became a city she would be Pittsburgh. D.C. needs to put this in their next bill. Get rid of Pittsburgh. Don't gentrify just make everyone leave and destroy it or something make it seem like it was never ever there. Most residents probably wish that would happen, besides the criminals
Quote from: 1 on April 29, 2021, 01:05:33 PM
Never heard of Cranberry, and using it as a control city is ridiculous.
Cranberry has really exploded in the last 20-25 years.
It's become a major suburb in terms of residence, and home to a lot of retail and a bunch of office space/office parks (When not working from home due to Covid, my company's office is in a Cranberry business park).
It's also that junction of I-79 and I-76/PA Turnpike, and US-19 is a major arterial in the area.
I'm kind of surprised it hasn't really been used at all (not
instead of Pittsburgh, of course, but at and north of the Parkway West interchange). Especially on I-279/I-579 north (which still use Erie). I-376 uses Monroeville heading east out of the city, and Cranberry is pretty much now the same thing, but north of the city instead of east.
Now, if you don't mind, it's already after 4 o'clock and I haven't kidnapped anyone yet today.
In this thread:
HighwayStar: Baltimore shouldn't be a control city because I want to make a point about a freeway cancellation
Angelo71: Pittsburgh shouldn't be a control city because it ruined my life
Am I the only one who remembers what the hell the purpose of road signs even is??
Quote from: Mr_Northside on April 29, 2021, 04:08:22 PM
Now, if you don't mind, it's already after 4 o'clock and I haven't kidnapped anyone yet today.
LOL! :rofl:
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:10:13 PM
Angelo71: Pittsburgh shouldn't be a control city because it ruined my life
Actually, I think he only said the whole city should be condemned. I must assume it can remain as a control city.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:10:13 PM
In this thread:
HighwayStar: Baltimore shouldn't be a control city because I want to make a point about a freeway cancellation
Angelo71: Pittsburgh shouldn't be a control city because it ruined my life
Am I the only one who remembers what the hell the purpose of road signs even is??
Nobody should want to go to Pittsburgh. it will save peoples lives if they don't go to pittsburgh so Im helping people
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:12:12 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:10:13 PM
In this thread:
HighwayStar: Baltimore shouldn't be a control city because I want to make a point about a freeway cancellation
Angelo71: Pittsburgh shouldn't be a control city because it ruined my life
Am I the only one who remembers what the hell the purpose of road signs even is??
Nobody should want to go to Pittsburgh. it will save peoples lives if they don't go to pittsburgh so Im helping people
Well, too damn bad. People have reasons to go to Pittsburgh, so the signs are going to say Pittsburgh. Get over it.
Quote from: MUTCD
The development of a signing system for freeways and expressways is approached on the premise that the signing is primarily for the benefit and direction of road users who are not familiar with the route or area. The signing furnishes road users with clear instructions for orderly progress to their destinations.
If your proposed change to control cities isn't "primarily for the benefit and direction of road users" and your motivation isn't to "furnish road users with clear instructions for orderly progress to their destinations", then your proposal is a bad idea. End of story.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:12:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:12:12 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:10:13 PM
In this thread:
HighwayStar: Baltimore shouldn't be a control city because I want to make a point about a freeway cancellation
Angelo71: Pittsburgh shouldn't be a control city because it ruined my life
Am I the only one who remembers what the hell the purpose of road signs even is??
Nobody should want to go to Pittsburgh. it will save peoples lives if they don't go to pittsburgh so Im helping people
Well, too damn bad. People have reasons to go to Pittsburgh, so the signs are going to say Pittsburgh. Get over it.
i refuse, pittsburgh is disgusting and should not be on a sign, it should not be in a book, it should not be on the internet it should have never existed. it should have been another redneck river town like most of pa besides northwest pa
I find Pittsburgh fascinating, it's actually very near the top of the list of cities I want to visit someday. I'm not even kidding. :popcorn:
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:10:13 PM
In this thread:
HighwayStar: Baltimore shouldn't be a control city because I want to make a point about a freeway cancellation
Angelo71: Pittsburgh shouldn't be a control city because it ruined my life
Am I the only one who remembers what the hell the purpose of road signs even is??
Personally, I'm never going to be able to look at control cities the same after this thread :-D
(Case in point: on Monday I was heading east on I-70 towards I-695, and upon passing this sign (https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3037594,-76.9144923,3a,75y,124.83h,89.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssm6oiJ5SiXVHknw8oIljcw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!5m1!1e1?hl=en), without missing a beat I subconsciously thought to myself "
wait a minute! US 40 goes into Downtown Baltimore, not I-70!!" :spin:
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:14:57 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:12:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:12:12 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:10:13 PM
In this thread:
HighwayStar: Baltimore shouldn't be a control city because I want to make a point about a freeway cancellation
Angelo71: Pittsburgh shouldn't be a control city because it ruined my life
Am I the only one who remembers what the hell the purpose of road signs even is??
Nobody should want to go to Pittsburgh. it will save peoples lives if they don't go to pittsburgh so Im helping people
Well, too damn bad. People have reasons to go to Pittsburgh, so the signs are going to say Pittsburgh. Get over it.
i refuse, pittsburgh is disgusting and should not be on a sign, it should not be in a book, it should not be on the internet it should have never existed. it should have been another redneck river town like most of pa besides northwest pa
Pittsburgh is better than Virgnia
Quote from: webny99 on April 29, 2021, 04:16:40 PM
I find Pittsburgh fascinating, it's actually very near the top of the list of cities I want to visit someday. I'm not even kidding. :popcorn:
its gross. good luck, trying not to get robbed or in a car crash
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 04:17:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:14:57 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:12:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:12:12 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:10:13 PM
In this thread:
HighwayStar: Baltimore shouldn't be a control city because I want to make a point about a freeway cancellation
Angelo71: Pittsburgh shouldn't be a control city because it ruined my life
Am I the only one who remembers what the hell the purpose of road signs even is??
Nobody should want to go to Pittsburgh. it will save peoples lives if they don't go to pittsburgh so Im helping people
Well, too damn bad. People have reasons to go to Pittsburgh, so the signs are going to say Pittsburgh. Get over it.
i refuse, pittsburgh is disgusting and should not be on a sign, it should not be in a book, it should not be on the internet it should have never existed. it should have been another redneck river town like most of pa besides northwest pa
Pittsburgh is better than Virgnia
EXCUSE ME!?! PITTSBURGH IS DIRTY AND GROSS. YES, THERE IS BAD AREAS IN VIRGINIA BUT PITTSBURGH IS GROSS, IT IS CRIME RIDDENED AND IS TO FAR DEEP IN THE HOLE TO BE A GOOD CITY AGAIN. END OF STORY
Doesn't Pittsburgh have some pretty good museums?
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:19:24 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 04:17:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:14:57 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:12:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:12:12 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:10:13 PM
In this thread:
HighwayStar: Baltimore shouldn't be a control city because I want to make a point about a freeway cancellation
Angelo71: Pittsburgh shouldn't be a control city because it ruined my life
Am I the only one who remembers what the hell the purpose of road signs even is??
Nobody should want to go to Pittsburgh. it will save peoples lives if they don't go to pittsburgh so Im helping people
Well, too damn bad. People have reasons to go to Pittsburgh, so the signs are going to say Pittsburgh. Get over it.
i refuse, pittsburgh is disgusting and should not be on a sign, it should not be in a book, it should not be on the internet it should have never existed. it should have been another redneck river town like most of pa besides northwest pa
Pittsburgh is better than Virgnia
EXCUSE ME!?! PITTSBURGH IS DIRTY AND GROSS. YES, THERE IS BAD AREAS IN VIRGINIA BUT PITTSBURGH IS GROSS, IT IS CRIME RIDDENED AND IS TO FAR DEEP IN THE HOLE TO BE A GOOD CITY AGAIN. END OF STORY
yawn
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 04:20:44 PM
Doesn't Pittsburgh have some pretty good museums?
baltimore and dc are better
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 04:21:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:19:24 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 04:17:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:14:57 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:12:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:12:12 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:10:13 PM
In this thread:
HighwayStar: Baltimore shouldn't be a control city because I want to make a point about a freeway cancellation
Angelo71: Pittsburgh shouldn't be a control city because it ruined my life
Am I the only one who remembers what the hell the purpose of road signs even is??
Nobody should want to go to Pittsburgh. it will save peoples lives if they don't go to pittsburgh so Im helping people
Well, too damn bad. People have reasons to go to Pittsburgh, so the signs are going to say Pittsburgh. Get over it.
i refuse, pittsburgh is disgusting and should not be on a sign, it should not be in a book, it should not be on the internet it should have never existed. it should have been another redneck river town like most of pa besides northwest pa
Pittsburgh is better than Virgnia
EXCUSE ME!?! PITTSBURGH IS DIRTY AND GROSS. YES, THERE IS BAD AREAS IN VIRGINIA BUT PITTSBURGH IS GROSS, IT IS CRIME RIDDENED AND IS TO FAR DEEP IN THE HOLE TO BE A GOOD CITY AGAIN. END OF STORY
yawn
im speaking the truth so
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:21:49 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 04:21:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:19:24 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 04:17:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:14:57 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:12:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:12:12 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:10:13 PM
In this thread:
HighwayStar: Baltimore shouldn't be a control city because I want to make a point about a freeway cancellation
Angelo71: Pittsburgh shouldn't be a control city because it ruined my life
Am I the only one who remembers what the hell the purpose of road signs even is??
Nobody should want to go to Pittsburgh. it will save peoples lives if they don't go to pittsburgh so Im helping people
Well, too damn bad. People have reasons to go to Pittsburgh, so the signs are going to say Pittsburgh. Get over it.
i refuse, pittsburgh is disgusting and should not be on a sign, it should not be in a book, it should not be on the internet it should have never existed. it should have been another redneck river town like most of pa besides northwest pa
Pittsburgh is better than Virgnia
EXCUSE ME!?! PITTSBURGH IS DIRTY AND GROSS. YES, THERE IS BAD AREAS IN VIRGINIA BUT PITTSBURGH IS GROSS, IT IS CRIME RIDDENED AND IS TO FAR DEEP IN THE HOLE TO BE A GOOD CITY AGAIN. END OF STORY
yawn
im speaking the truth so
https://www.city-journal.org/pittsburghs-comeback
If you Pittsburgh this much I'd hate to hear what you think of Detroit, Cleveland, Gary, Camden...
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 04:20:44 PM
Doesn't Pittsburgh have some pretty good museums?
I thought the Carnegie Science Center was pretty incredible last time I was there, and the fact that the Pittsburgh Zoo & Aquarium are combined is pretty unique as well!
(Also,
kernals12 will love this: you can legally ride the light rail for free in the immediate downtown/north shore areas! Made me feel like I was getting a little more bang out of the PATP tolls I paid on the way to Pittsburgh :-D)
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 04:23:30 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:21:49 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 04:21:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:19:24 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 04:17:41 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:14:57 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:12:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:12:12 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:10:13 PM
In this thread:
HighwayStar: Baltimore shouldn't be a control city because I want to make a point about a freeway cancellation
Angelo71: Pittsburgh shouldn't be a control city because it ruined my life
Am I the only one who remembers what the hell the purpose of road signs even is??
Nobody should want to go to Pittsburgh. it will save peoples lives if they don't go to pittsburgh so Im helping people
Well, too damn bad. People have reasons to go to Pittsburgh, so the signs are going to say Pittsburgh. Get over it.
i refuse, pittsburgh is disgusting and should not be on a sign, it should not be in a book, it should not be on the internet it should have never existed. it should have been another redneck river town like most of pa besides northwest pa
Pittsburgh is better than Virgnia
EXCUSE ME!?! PITTSBURGH IS DIRTY AND GROSS. YES, THERE IS BAD AREAS IN VIRGINIA BUT PITTSBURGH IS GROSS, IT IS CRIME RIDDENED AND IS TO FAR DEEP IN THE HOLE TO BE A GOOD CITY AGAIN. END OF STORY
yawn
im speaking the truth so
https://www.city-journal.org/pittsburghs-comeback
If you Pittsburgh this much I'd hate to hear what you think of Detroit, Cleveland, Gary, Camden...
i dont have a personal experience with them so, even though they have garfitti and white vans filling the streets, i just hate pittsburgh because my personal experience with the gross city.
(https://i.imgur.com/E5Qqz1l.png)
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:26:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/E5Qqz1l.png)
i didn't know administrators can be so evil i wish i could go karen on you but i can't because people probably agree with you.
VIRGINIA#1
https://imgur.com/yKf66pE
(https://imgur.com/Y07IVPt.jpg)
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:27:02 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:26:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/E5Qqz1l.png)
i didn't know administrators can be so evil i wish i could go karen on you but i can't because people probably agree with you.
VIRGINIA#1
https://imgur.com/yKf66pE
Do you want to get banned?
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 04:33:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:27:02 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:26:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/E5Qqz1l.png)
i didn't know administrators can be so evil i wish i could go karen on you but i can't because people probably agree with you.
VIRGINIA#1
https://imgur.com/yKf66pE
Do you want to get banned?
I don't understand. Because you are obsessed with Pittsburgh and I love Virginia
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:27:02 PM
VIRGINIA#12
FTFY
in terms of population at leastQuote from: webny99 on April 29, 2021, 04:31:17 PM
(https://imgur.com/Y07IVPt.jpg)
I wonder why the color of the van matters. Or maybe he's concerned that people are going to get their light-colored shoes ruined by how gross it is.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:36:35 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:27:02 PM
VIRGINIA#12
FTFY
in terms of population at least
Quote from: webny99 on April 29, 2021, 04:31:17 PM
(https://imgur.com/Y07IVPt.jpg)
I wonder why the color of the van matters. Or maybe he's concerned that people are going to get their light-colored shoes ruined by how gross it is.
Actually Virginia is number 7 on best state, but for me it is number 1. White vans are known to have kidnappers driving them
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 29, 2021, 04:37:47 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
they are evil. i hope they can give me a personal reason on why virginia is bad.
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:38:16 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 29, 2021, 04:37:47 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
they are evil. i hope they can give me a personal reason on why virginia is bad.
Nobody seriously thinks Virginia is bad.
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:38:16 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 29, 2021, 04:37:47 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
they are evil. i hope they can give me a personal reason on why virginia is bad.
What are evil? Tubs of popcorn?
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 04:39:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:38:16 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 29, 2021, 04:37:47 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
they are evil. i hope they can give me a personal reason on why virginia is bad.
Nobody seriously thinks Virginia is bad.
i don't understand why you are in love with pittsburgh
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 04:42:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:38:16 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 29, 2021, 04:37:47 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
they are evil. i hope they can give me a personal reason on why virginia is bad.
What are evil? Tubs of popcorn?
people who love pittsburgh
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:42:46 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 04:42:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:38:16 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 29, 2021, 04:37:47 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
they are evil. i hope they can give me a personal reason on why virginia is bad.
What are evil? Tubs of popcorn?
people who love pittsburgh
Obama (https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2014/06/17/president-obama-to-visit-techshop-during-latest-visit-to-pittsburgh/)?
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:38:16 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 29, 2021, 04:37:47 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
they are evil. i hope they can give me a personal reason on why virginia is bad.
Radar detectors are illegal
Reckless driving is anything over 85 mph no matter what the speed limit is (here that would be 5 over the limit)
I've only been there once, so I'm sure people more familiar with it could come up with other reasons. But every state has something bad about it.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:46:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:38:16 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 29, 2021, 04:37:47 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
they are evil. i hope they can give me a personal reason on why virginia is bad.
Radar detectors are illegal
Reckless driving is anything over 85 mph no matter what the speed limit is (here that would be 5 over the limit)
I've only been there once, so I'm sure people more familiar with it could come up with other reasons. But every state has something bad about it.
obviously. but pittsburgh is disgusting. im targetting a county not a state
Pittsburgh isn't a county.
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:42:46 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 04:42:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:38:16 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 29, 2021, 04:37:47 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
they are evil. i hope they can give me a personal reason on why virginia is bad.
What are evil? Tubs of popcorn?
people who love pittsburgh
We don't
love it, we just don't think it's the worst place ever in human history.
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:47:49 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:46:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:38:16 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 29, 2021, 04:37:47 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
they are evil. i hope they can give me a personal reason on why virginia is bad.
Radar detectors are illegal
Reckless driving is anything over 85 mph no matter what the speed limit is (here that would be 5 over the limit)
I've only been there once, so I'm sure people more familiar with it could come up with other reasons. But every state has something bad about it.
obviously. but pittsburgh is disgusting. im targetting a county not a state
It's
I'm. And capitalization mate.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 04:39:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:38:16 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 29, 2021, 04:37:47 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
they are evil. i hope they can give me a personal reason on why virginia is bad.
Nobody seriously thinks Virginia is bad.
hbelkins
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 04:51:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:47:49 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:46:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:38:16 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 29, 2021, 04:37:47 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
they are evil. i hope they can give me a personal reason on why virginia is bad.
Radar detectors are illegal
Reckless driving is anything over 85 mph no matter what the speed limit is (here that would be 5 over the limit)
I've only been there once, so I'm sure people more familiar with it could come up with other reasons. But every state has something bad about it.
obviously. but pittsburgh is disgusting. im targetting a county not a state
It's I'm. And capitalization mate.
my gosh it doesn't matter we aren't writing a novel here it's a forum
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 04:52:42 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 29, 2021, 04:52:05 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 04:39:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:38:16 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 29, 2021, 04:37:47 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
they are evil. i hope they can give me a personal reason on why virginia is bad.
Nobody seriously thinks Virginia is bad.
hbelkins
He does?
Yes. It's because it's the only state where radar detectors are prohibited (DC isn't a state), plus the 80 (now 85) MPH reckless driving threshold.
Quote from: 1 on April 29, 2021, 04:55:58 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 04:52:42 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 29, 2021, 04:52:05 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 04:39:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:38:16 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 29, 2021, 04:37:47 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
they are evil. i hope they can give me a personal reason on why virginia is bad.
Nobody seriously thinks Virginia is bad.
hbelkins
He does?
Yes. It's because it's the only state where radar detectors are prohibited (DC isn't a state), plus the 80 (now 85) MPH reckless driving threshold.
virginia has it all, calming beaches, scenic mountains and lakes, large cities, great views, nice people, and the best suburbs in the world, good higher education, and much more!
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:53:54 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 04:51:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:47:49 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:46:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:38:16 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 29, 2021, 04:37:47 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
they are evil. i hope they can give me a personal reason on why virginia is bad.
Radar detectors are illegal
Reckless driving is anything over 85 mph no matter what the speed limit is (here that would be 5 over the limit)
I've only been there once, so I'm sure people more familiar with it could come up with other reasons. But every state has something bad about it.
obviously. but pittsburgh is disgusting. im targetting a county not a state
It's I'm. And capitalization mate.
my gosh it doesn't matter we aren't writing a novel here it's a forum
This is a forum, not a Pittsburgh hate site.
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:57:17 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 29, 2021, 04:55:58 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 04:52:42 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 29, 2021, 04:52:05 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 04:39:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:38:16 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 29, 2021, 04:37:47 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
they are evil. i hope they can give me a personal reason on why virginia is bad.
Nobody seriously thinks Virginia is bad.
hbelkins
He does?
Yes. It's because it's the only state where radar detectors are prohibited (DC isn't a state), plus the 80 (now 85) MPH reckless driving threshold.
virginia has it all, calming beaches, scenic mountains and lakes, large cities, great views, nice people, and the best suburbs in the world, good higher education, and much more!
I actually like Virginia but you might make me hate it.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 04:57:55 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:53:54 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 04:51:45 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:47:49 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:46:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:38:16 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 29, 2021, 04:37:47 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
they are evil. i hope they can give me a personal reason on why virginia is bad.
Radar detectors are illegal
Reckless driving is anything over 85 mph no matter what the speed limit is (here that would be 5 over the limit)
I've only been there once, so I'm sure people more familiar with it could come up with other reasons. But every state has something bad about it.
obviously. but pittsburgh is disgusting. im targetting a county not a state
It's I'm. And capitalization mate.
my gosh it doesn't matter we aren't writing a novel here it's a forum
This is a forum, not a Pittsburgh hate site.
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:57:17 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 29, 2021, 04:55:58 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 04:52:42 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 29, 2021, 04:52:05 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 04:39:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:38:16 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 29, 2021, 04:37:47 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
they are evil. i hope they can give me a personal reason on why virginia is bad.
Nobody seriously thinks Virginia is bad.
hbelkins
He does?
Yes. It's because it's the only state where radar detectors are prohibited (DC isn't a state), plus the 80 (now 85) MPH reckless driving threshold.
virginia has it all, calming beaches, scenic mountains and lakes, large cities, great views, nice people, and the best suburbs in the world, good higher education, and much more!
I actually like Virginia but you might make me hate it.
sorry but one thing that will never happen is me liking gross allegheny county
Who cares?
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 04:59:01 PM
Who cares?
apparently these people since they are trying to make pittsburgh seem like the best thing since sliced bread
Out of all the things that would finally pull us out of the great I-70 Baltimore debate, I never thought it'd be
THIS.
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:01:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 04:59:01 PM
Who cares?
apparently these people since they are trying to make pittsburgh seem like the best thing since sliced bread
I'm pretty sure everyone here (myself included) is spectacularly indifferent about Pittsburgh, and moreso just befuddled by your absolute hatred for it :banghead:
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:01:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 04:59:01 PM
Who cares?
apparently these people since they are trying to make pittsburgh seem like the best thing since sliced bread
Not really, we're just saying it's
fine. It has its good and bad just like every other city.
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:01:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 04:59:01 PM
Who cares?
apparently these people since they are trying to make pittsburgh seem like the best thing since sliced bread
No, we don't care that you personally hate Pittsburgh. We're just pointing out that it isn't the worst place.
Hate Pittsburgh? Great, take it to another forum.
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 29, 2021, 05:02:08 PM
Out of all the things that would finally pull us out of the great I-70 Baltimore debate, I never thought it'd be THIS.
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:01:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 04:59:01 PM
Who cares?
apparently these people since they are trying to make pittsburgh seem like the best thing since sliced bread
I'm pretty sure everyone here (myself included) is spectacularly indifferent about Pittsburgh, and moreso just befuddled by your absolute hatred for it :banghead:
Pittsburgh is a run down senile and decrepit town that needs to be evacuated and erased from everything. it ruins peoples lives. i ran away from that disgusting town and everyone who lives there should too. end of discussion
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 05:02:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:01:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 04:59:01 PM
Who cares?
apparently these people since they are trying to make pittsburgh seem like the best thing since sliced bread
No, we don't care that you personally hate Pittsburgh. We're just pointing out that it isn't the worst place.
Hate Pittsburgh? Great, take it to another forum.
oo what forum can i express my hatred for the city
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:03:37 PM
Quote from: jmacswimmer on April 29, 2021, 05:02:08 PM
Out of all the things that would finally pull us out of the great I-70 Baltimore debate, I never thought it'd be THIS.
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:01:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 04:59:01 PM
Who cares?
apparently these people since they are trying to make pittsburgh seem like the best thing since sliced bread
I'm pretty sure everyone here (myself included) is spectacularly indifferent about Pittsburgh, and moreso just befuddled by your absolute hatred for it :banghead:
Pittsburgh is a run down senile and decrepit town that needs to be evacuated and erased from everything. it ruins peoples lives. i ran away from that disgusting town and everyone who lives there should too. end of discussion
Maybe you were the problem, not Pittsburgh.
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:04:15 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 05:02:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:01:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 04:59:01 PM
Who cares?
apparently these people since they are trying to make pittsburgh seem like the best thing since sliced bread
No, we don't care that you personally hate Pittsburgh. We're just pointing out that it isn't the worst place.
Hate Pittsburgh? Great, take it to another forum.
oo what forum can i express my hatred for the city
www.pittsburghsucksforum.com (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:04:15 PM
oo what forum can i express my hatred for the city
https://www.city-data.com/forum/pittsburgh/
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:03:37 PM
Pittsburgh is a run down senile and decrepit town that needs to be evacuated and erased from everything. it ruins peoples lives. i ran away from that disgusting town and everyone who lives there should too. end of discussion
That is a completely ridiculous and laughable assertion, so don't be surprised when people disagree with it, while simultaneously
not thinking Pittsburgh is the best thing since sliced bread.
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:04:15 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 05:02:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:01:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 04:59:01 PM
Who cares?
apparently these people since they are trying to make pittsburgh seem like the best thing since sliced bread
No, we don't care that you personally hate Pittsburgh. We're just pointing out that it isn't the worst place.
Hate Pittsburgh? Great, take it to another forum.
oo what forum can i express my hatred for the city
Just go to Cleveland
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 05:06:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:04:15 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 05:02:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:01:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 04:59:01 PM
Who cares?
apparently these people since they are trying to make pittsburgh seem like the best thing since sliced bread
No, we don't care that you personally hate Pittsburgh. We're just pointing out that it isn't the worst place.
Hate Pittsburgh? Great, take it to another forum.
oo what forum can i express my hatred for the city
Just go to Cleveland
im in winchester and im never moving ever again
Quote from: webny99 on April 29, 2021, 05:05:57 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:03:37 PM
Pittsburgh is a run down senile and decrepit town that needs to be evacuated and erased from everything. it ruins peoples lives. i ran away from that disgusting town and everyone who lives there should too. end of discussion
That is a completely ridiculous and laughable assertion, so don't be surprised when people disagree with it, while simultaneously not thinking Pittsburgh is the best thing since sliced bread.
Agreed. If you thought the Baltimore phase of the thread was bad,
Angelo71 managed a great "hold my beer" moment.
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:03:37 PM
end of discussion
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5c/9b/28/5c9b28cbafb83cf2483a6ef8b8b83269.jpg)
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:08:19 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 05:06:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:04:15 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 05:02:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:01:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 04:59:01 PM
Who cares?
apparently these people since they are trying to make pittsburgh seem like the best thing since sliced bread
No, we don't care that you personally hate Pittsburgh. We're just pointing out that it isn't the worst place.
Hate Pittsburgh? Great, take it to another forum.
oo what forum can i express my hatred for the city
Just go to Cleveland
im in winchester and im never moving ever again
You don't have to move there, just visit and talk to the locals.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 05:08:50 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:08:19 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 05:06:52 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:04:15 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 05:02:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:01:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 04:59:01 PM
Who cares?
apparently these people since they are trying to make pittsburgh seem like the best thing since sliced bread
No, we don't care that you personally hate Pittsburgh. We're just pointing out that it isn't the worst place.
Hate Pittsburgh? Great, take it to another forum.
oo what forum can i express my hatred for the city
Just go to Cleveland
im in winchester and im never moving ever again
You don't have to move there, just visit and talk to the locals.
im not saying cleveland isnt bad but id rather be there than pittsburgh
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/76/Pittsburgh_Pennsylvania_neighborhoods_fade.svg/500px-Pittsburgh_Pennsylvania_neighborhoods_fade.svg.png)
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:10:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 05:09:06 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:07:52 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 05:05:23 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:04:15 PM
oo what forum can i express my hatred for the city
https://www.city-data.com/forum/pittsburgh/
Thanks
You're welcome. Go get banned over there.
ok
Have fun. You should fit right in.
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 05:08:37 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:03:37 PM
end of discussion
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5c/9b/28/5c9b28cbafb83cf2483a6ef8b8b83269.jpg)
kphoger,
Just for using that quote, all is forgiven! One of the best lines from one of the best movies, bravo! :clap:
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 05:11:16 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/76/Pittsburgh_Pennsylvania_neighborhoods_fade.svg/500px-Pittsburgh_Pennsylvania_neighborhoods_fade.svg.png)
That Map is forgetting McKeesport and *pukes* north versailles borough *pukes again because of north versailles*
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:15:52 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 05:11:16 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/76/Pittsburgh_Pennsylvania_neighborhoods_fade.svg/500px-Pittsburgh_Pennsylvania_neighborhoods_fade.svg.png)
That Map is forgetting McKeesport and *pukes* north versailles borough *pukes again because of north versailles*
You know, having lived in a fair number of places, and visited quite a few more, your standards would probabally make well over half the US unbelievable if you think Pittsburgh is that bad.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 29, 2021, 05:17:00 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:15:52 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 05:11:16 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/76/Pittsburgh_Pennsylvania_neighborhoods_fade.svg/500px-Pittsburgh_Pennsylvania_neighborhoods_fade.svg.png)
That Map is forgetting McKeesport and *pukes* north versailles borough *pukes again because of north versailles*
You know, having lived in a fair number of places, and visited quite a few more, your standards would probabally make well over half the US unbelievable if you think Pittsburgh is that bad.
Again its mainly because i lived there and a lot bad happened so thats why
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:20:34 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 29, 2021, 05:17:00 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:15:52 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 05:11:16 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/76/Pittsburgh_Pennsylvania_neighborhoods_fade.svg/500px-Pittsburgh_Pennsylvania_neighborhoods_fade.svg.png)
That Map is forgetting McKeesport and *pukes* north versailles borough *pukes again because of north versailles*
You know, having lived in a fair number of places, and visited quite a few more, your standards would probabally make well over half the US unbelievable if you think Pittsburgh is that bad.
Again its mainly because i lived there and a lot bad happened so thats why
Do you need to see a therapist? Maybe we aren't the best place for you to vent about Pittsburgh.
There are a lot of crime-ridden dumps out there -- Baltimore, DC, Philly, Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago, Pine Bluff, (yes) Louisville, East St. Louis, and believe it or not, increasingly Lexington. And all those places (with the possible exception of Pine Bluff and ESL) also have world-class, clean, neat facilities that are tourist draws.
Pittsburgh is an interesting town especially if you like roads and infrastructure. The tunnels, all the bridges, the inclines, Primanti Bros., major-league sports, and so on. Stray too far off the beaten path -- say, very far west of 9th Street in Louisville -- and any city is going to have it's own "Pittsburgh."
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:42:46 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 04:42:16 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:38:16 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 29, 2021, 04:37:47 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
they are evil. i hope they can give me a personal reason on why virginia is bad.
What are evil? Tubs of popcorn?
people who love pittsburgh
Then why did you quote tubs of popcorn?
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:12:12 PM
Nobody should want to go to Pittsburgh. it will save peoples lives if they don't go to pittsburgh so Im helping people
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:20:34 PM
Again its mainly because i lived there and a lot bad happened so thats why
Bad stuff happening to you that is presumably not the fault of the city is no reason why I shouldn't want to go there.
From I-90, I-84 west is signed for New York City but NYC is not signed on I-84 in Conneticut.
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 06:07:05 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:12:12 PM
Nobody should want to go to Pittsburgh. it will save peoples lives if they don't go to pittsburgh so Im helping people
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:20:34 PM
Again its mainly because i lived there and a lot bad happened so thats why
Bad stuff happening to you that is presumably not the fault of the city is no reason why I shouldn't want to go there.
And, I mean, even if you have no desire to ever live in Pittsburgh, say you're a businessman who's developed a food product. Kraft-Heinz is interested in buying it. You have a meeting at their Pittsburgh headquarters, and stand to make millions if you can reach a deal. You decide to drive rather than fly because you're bringing a case of the food with you and it's perishable, so you don't want to risk it getting messed up by the airline. You can't find the way to Pittsburgh because it's not on the signs cause Angelo can't get over the fact that other people might have a reason to visit Pittsburgh.
Right before the COVID hit the fan, a teacher friend of mine went to Pittsburgh for a work conference. While he was there, the conference was canceled (due to the virus) and he spent his time visiting museums instead, then he flew back to Wichita. He had a pretty enjoyable experience there.
Isn't Pittsburgh gaining attention from a couple of tech companies too? Google has a large Pittsburgh office in Bakery Square, and I think Uber tests autonomous vehicles in the city too.
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 29, 2021, 06:41:15 PM
Isn't Pittsburgh gaining attention from a couple of tech companies too? Google has a large Pittsburgh office in Bakery Square, and I think Uber tests autonomous vehicles in the city too.
None of that is going to fix the city, just short term band aid solutions.
Quote from: HighwayStar on April 29, 2021, 06:42:56 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on April 29, 2021, 06:41:15 PM
Isn't Pittsburgh gaining attention from a couple of tech companies too? Google has a large Pittsburgh office in Bakery Square, and I think Uber tests autonomous vehicles in the city too.
None of that is going to fix the city, just short term band aid solutions.
It doesn't matter for the purposes of control city determination, though.
Quote from: webny99 on April 29, 2021, 04:16:40 PM
I find Pittsburgh fascinating, it's actually very near the top of the list of cities I want to visit someday. I'm not even kidding. :popcorn:
It is fascinating, I lived there for a couple of years. Just getting around is great mental exercise, like a three-dimensional crossword puzzle. Definitely visit!
Pittsburgh is a cool city road geek wise. My dad also grew up nearby.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 06:11:32 PM
From I-90, I-84 west is signed for New York City but NYC is not signed on I-84 in Conneticut.
It is signed for CT 15/TO I-91 south once you reach exit 57, and thru traffic leaving the Pike for I-84 will simply be continuing straight between those 2 points, so this seems fine to me. I think a similar discussion happened recently in another thread regarding Tulsa being used for I-44 in the STL area, but then disappearing for a while while heading west.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 06:47:29 PM
Pittsburgh is a cool city road geek wise. My dad also grew up nearby.
Agreed, all those bridges & tunnels...what more could a roadgeek want?
Pittsburgh has my favorite urban interstate view; I-376 EB coming out of the tunnel and the CBD skyline is in front of you.
Quote from: empirestate on April 29, 2021, 06:46:47 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 29, 2021, 04:16:40 PM
I find Pittsburgh fascinating, it's actually very near the top of the list of cities I want to visit someday. I'm not even kidding. :popcorn:
It is fascinating, I lived there for a couple of years. Just getting around is great mental exercise, like a three-dimensional crossword puzzle. Definitely visit!
Sickening. Pittsburgh is disgusting and this entire page is just about making me mad. I get it I'm evil, now everyone laugh and say how bad of a person I am
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 06:57:26 PM
Quote from: empirestate on April 29, 2021, 06:46:47 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 29, 2021, 04:16:40 PM
I find Pittsburgh fascinating, it's actually very near the top of the list of cities I want to visit someday. I'm not even kidding. :popcorn:
It is fascinating, I lived there for a couple of years. Just getting around is great mental exercise, like a three-dimensional crossword puzzle. Definitely visit!
Sickening. Pittsburgh is disgusting and this entire page is just about making me mad. I get it I'm evil, now everyone laugh and say how bad of a person I am
Maybe you should sit down and have a talk with someone about why the opinions of people you've never met about a city in a state you don't live in matters to you so much.
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 06:57:26 PM
Quote from: empirestate on April 29, 2021, 06:46:47 PM
Quote from: webny99 on April 29, 2021, 04:16:40 PM
I find Pittsburgh fascinating, it's actually very near the top of the list of cities I want to visit someday. I'm not even kidding. :popcorn:
It is fascinating, I lived there for a couple of years. Just getting around is great mental exercise, like a three-dimensional crossword puzzle. Definitely visit!
Sickening. Pittsburgh is disgusting and this entire page is just about making me mad. I get it I'm evil, now everyone laugh and say how bad of a person I am
I'm not trying to make you mad you are inciting this.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 06:11:32 PM
From I-90, I-84 west is signed for New York City but NYC is not signed on I-84 in Conneticut.
It also has Hartford on that sign. DOT's choose the control cities so Massachusetts probably chose to mention NYC and Connecticut didn't.
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:01:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 04:59:01 PM
Who cares?
apparently these people since they are trying to make pittsburgh seem like the best thing since sliced bread
Talking about control cities is trying to make Pittsburgh seem like the best thing since sliced bread, wtf?
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:42:21 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 04:39:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 04:38:16 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 29, 2021, 04:37:47 PM
:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
they are evil. i hope they can give me a personal reason on why virginia is bad.
Nobody seriously thinks Virginia is bad.
i don't understand why you are in love with pittsburgh
Who's in love with Pittsburgh? You're the one talking about it. If you think Pittsburgh is so bad I'd hate to see what you'd think of Detroit and Flint lmao. Pittsburgh is fine I've been there plenty of times and never had a problem there. Just because you had a bad experience there doesn't mean everyone else does too.
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 29, 2021, 10:44:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:01:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 04:59:01 PM
Who cares?
apparently these people since they are trying to make pittsburgh seem like the best thing since sliced bread
Talking about control cities is trying to make Pittsburgh seem like the best thing since sliced bread, wtf?
Every control city is the best thing since sliced bread.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 11:07:22 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 29, 2021, 10:44:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:01:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 04:59:01 PM
Who cares?
apparently these people since they are trying to make pittsburgh seem like the best thing since sliced bread
Talking about control cities is trying to make Pittsburgh seem like the best thing since sliced bread, wtf?
Every control city is the best thing since sliced bread.
Even Bloomsburg?
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 11:11:34 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 29, 2021, 11:07:22 PM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 29, 2021, 10:44:34 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:01:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 04:59:01 PM
Who cares?
apparently these people since they are trying to make pittsburgh seem like the best thing since sliced bread
Talking about control cities is trying to make Pittsburgh seem like the best thing since sliced bread, wtf?
Every control city is the best thing since sliced bread.
Even Bloomsburg?
Yes.
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:04:15 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 05:02:58 PM
Quote from: Angelo71 on April 29, 2021, 05:01:04 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 29, 2021, 04:59:01 PM
Who cares?
apparently these people since they are trying to make pittsburgh seem like the best thing since sliced bread
No, we don't care that you personally hate Pittsburgh. We're just pointing out that it isn't the worst place.
Hate Pittsburgh? Great, take it to another forum.
oo what forum can i express my hatred for the city
Why is this a right now with new forum members? Caught onto this bit of shenanigans after I saw the "sorry" thread on the Fictional Board.
I mean hell, I'm from Detroit and objectively speaking that is a way worse off place than Pittsburgh. I don't hate the place though, I made and choice and moved away when I was an adult. It might be in your interest to do the same, but it also sounds like you got some anger issues you are going to need to confront. You're just in line to get steamrolled on this forum if you're here to tell people you "hate this and that." .
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 29, 2021, 04:10:13 PM
Am I the only one who remembers what the hell the purpose of road signs even is??
(city) shouldn't be a control city because it sucks and I want to pretend it isn't a real place.
Hahaha! Just reading the last 24 hours of this thread and am thoroughly entertained! :-D
Obviously, Pittsburgh belongs as a control city on signs along I-76, I-79, and even I-70 to the east of it's divergence from the PA Turnpike. Why? Because that's the way a motorist would need to travel in order to get there. The fact that those interstates don't enter the city proper doesn't matter - that's the route you travel to reach the correct exit to get to that place. This is the concept and it's fairly simple.
As for the Pittsburgh argument, I have to take the position of a rabid moderate: I found it to be a weird place with a nice and clean downtown but with really oddly configured neighborhoods and suburbs. Some of it was very dumpy, some of it just old and crowded, some nice. But all strange to me. That said, Cranberry Twp has a lot of stuff and should be signed where appropriate.
Lastly, you lost me on the "Pittsburgh sucks" argument when you said that Baltimore is better. That's laughable. Baltimore is not better - Baltimore is a real pit, and has been since at least 1969 (earliest I remember how it was driving through there). Whatever issues you had with Pittsburgh, I can assure you that they would've been 5 times worse in an equivalent part of Baltimore.
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 30, 2021, 11:41:59 AM
Hahaha! Just reading the last 24 hours of this thread and am thoroughly entertained! :-D
Obviously, Pittsburgh belongs as a control city on signs along I-76, I-79, and even I-70 to the east of it's divergence from the PA Turnpike. Why? Because that's the way a motorist would need to travel in order to get there. The fact that those interstates don't enter the city proper doesn't matter - that's the route you travel to reach the correct exit to get to that place. This is the concept and it's fairly simple.
As for the Pittsburgh argument, I have to take the position of a rabid moderate: I found it to be a weird place with a nice and clean downtown but with really oddly configured neighborhoods and suburbs. Some of it was very dumpy, some of it just old and crowded, some nice. But all strange to me. That said, Cranberry Twp has a lot of stuff and should be signed where appropriate.
Lastly, you lost me on the "Pittsburgh sucks" argument when you said that Baltimore is better. That's laughable. Baltimore is not better - Baltimore is a real pit, and has been since at least 1969 (earliest I remember how it was driving through there). Whatever issues you had with Pittsburgh, I can assure you that they would've been 5 times worse in an equivalent part of Baltimore.
I think that he had a bad personal experience in Pittsburgh.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 30, 2021, 12:09:48 PM
I think that he had a bad personal experience in Pittsburgh.
That would seem to be an understatement.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 30, 2021, 12:09:48 PM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 30, 2021, 11:41:59 AM
Hahaha! Just reading the last 24 hours of this thread and am thoroughly entertained! :-D
Obviously, Pittsburgh belongs as a control city on signs along I-76, I-79, and even I-70 to the east of it's divergence from the PA Turnpike. Why? Because that's the way a motorist would need to travel in order to get there. The fact that those interstates don't enter the city proper doesn't matter - that's the route you travel to reach the correct exit to get to that place. This is the concept and it's fairly simple.
As for the Pittsburgh argument, I have to take the position of a rabid moderate: I found it to be a weird place with a nice and clean downtown but with really oddly configured neighborhoods and suburbs. Some of it was very dumpy, some of it just old and crowded, some nice. But all strange to me. That said, Cranberry Twp has a lot of stuff and should be signed where appropriate.
Lastly, you lost me on the "Pittsburgh sucks" argument when you said that Baltimore is better. That's laughable. Baltimore is not better - Baltimore is a real pit, and has been since at least 1969 (earliest I remember how it was driving through there). Whatever issues you had with Pittsburgh, I can assure you that they would've been 5 times worse in an equivalent part of Baltimore.
I think that he had a bad personal experience in Pittsburgh.
No shit?
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 30, 2021, 12:09:48 PM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 30, 2021, 11:41:59 AM
Hahaha! Just reading the last 24 hours of this thread and am thoroughly entertained! :-D
Obviously, Pittsburgh belongs as a control city on signs along I-76, I-79, and even I-70 to the east of it's divergence from the PA Turnpike. Why? Because that's the way a motorist would need to travel in order to get there. The fact that those interstates don't enter the city proper doesn't matter - that's the route you travel to reach the correct exit to get to that place. This is the concept and it's fairly simple.
As for the Pittsburgh argument, I have to take the position of a rabid moderate: I found it to be a weird place with a nice and clean downtown but with really oddly configured neighborhoods and suburbs. Some of it was very dumpy, some of it just old and crowded, some nice. But all strange to me. That said, Cranberry Twp has a lot of stuff and should be signed where appropriate.
Lastly, you lost me on the "Pittsburgh sucks" argument when you said that Baltimore is better. That's laughable. Baltimore is not better - Baltimore is a real pit, and has been since at least 1969 (earliest I remember how it was driving through there). Whatever issues you had with Pittsburgh, I can assure you that they would've been 5 times worse in an equivalent part of Baltimore.
I think that he had a bad personal experience in Pittsburgh.
Or maybe it was such a good experience that he (presumably) wants Pittsburgh all to himself?
Pittsburgh is a fine city. Baltimore is a fine city. Also - 70 west in Baltimore should have Pittsburgh as its control. Frederick, Hagerstown, Hancock, Breezewood, New Stanton, Washington PA - none of these are control city worthy. However, on the Changing Control City tip, there are no roads in Pittsburgh that should reciprocate and sign Baltimore (nor are there).
I don't know about Pittsburgh on I-70 out of Baltimore–I-70 itself doesn't get all that close to Pittsburgh, though it connects to a lot of highways that do. And some percentage of traffic is on I-70 to get to Ohio and isn't all that interested in Pittsburgh anyway.
Quote from: jaehak on April 30, 2021, 03:46:08 PM
Pittsburgh is a fine city. Baltimore is a fine city. Also - 70 west in Baltimore should have Pittsburgh as its control. Frederick, Hagerstown, Hancock, Breezewood, New Stanton, Washington PA - none of these are control city worthy. However, on the Changing Control City tip, there are no roads in Pittsburgh that should reciprocate and sign Baltimore (nor are there).
Eh I-70 is a bit to far from Pittsburgh to justify signing it that far away.
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 30, 2021, 05:15:40 PM
Quote from: jaehak on April 30, 2021, 03:46:08 PM
Pittsburgh is a fine city. Baltimore is a fine city. Also - 70 west in Baltimore should have Pittsburgh as its control. Frederick, Hagerstown, Hancock, Breezewood, New Stanton, Washington PA - none of these are control city worthy. However, on the Changing Control City tip, there are no roads in Pittsburgh that should reciprocate and sign Baltimore (nor are there).
Eh I-70 is a bit to far from Pittsburgh to justify signing it that far away.
I would sign Pittsburgh, at least as a secondary control city, west of I-270 though. It's the next major city beyond that intersection.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on April 30, 2021, 08:05:23 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on April 30, 2021, 05:15:40 PM
Quote from: jaehak on April 30, 2021, 03:46:08 PM
Pittsburgh is a fine city. Baltimore is a fine city. Also - 70 west in Baltimore should have Pittsburgh as its control. Frederick, Hagerstown, Hancock, Breezewood, New Stanton, Washington PA - none of these are control city worthy. However, on the Changing Control City tip, there are no roads in Pittsburgh that should reciprocate and sign Baltimore (nor are there).
Eh I-70 is a bit to far from Pittsburgh to justify signing it that far away.
I would sign Pittsburgh, at least as a secondary control city, west of I-270 though. It's the next major city beyond that intersection.
Maybe at important junctions.
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 30, 2021, 11:41:59 AM
Hahaha! Just reading the last 24 hours of this thread and am thoroughly entertained! :-D
Obviously, Pittsburgh belongs as a control city on signs along I-76, I-79, and even I-70 to the east of it's divergence from the PA Turnpike. Why? Because that's the way a motorist would need to travel in order to get there. The fact that those interstates don't enter the city proper doesn't matter - that's the route you travel to reach the correct exit to get to that place. This is the concept and it's fairly simple.
As for the Pittsburgh argument, I have to take the position of a rabid moderate: I found it to be a weird place with a nice and clean downtown but with really oddly configured neighborhoods and suburbs. Some of it was very dumpy, some of it just old and crowded, some nice. But all strange to me. That said, Cranberry Twp has a lot of stuff and should be signed where appropriate.
Lastly, you lost me on the "Pittsburgh sucks" argument when you said that Baltimore is better. That's laughable. Baltimore is not better - Baltimore is a real pit, and has been since at least 1969 (earliest I remember how it was driving through there). Whatever issues you had with Pittsburgh, I can assure you that they would've been 5 times worse in an equivalent part of Baltimore.
Perhaps he is a disgruntled Ravens fan who hates the Steelers? Just spit ballin here.
Quote from: hobsini2 on May 08, 2021, 10:07:06 PM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 30, 2021, 11:41:59 AM
Hahaha! Just reading the last 24 hours of this thread and am thoroughly entertained! :-D
Obviously, Pittsburgh belongs as a control city on signs along I-76, I-79, and even I-70 to the east of it's divergence from the PA Turnpike. Why? Because that's the way a motorist would need to travel in order to get there. The fact that those interstates don't enter the city proper doesn't matter - that's the route you travel to reach the correct exit to get to that place. This is the concept and it's fairly simple.
As for the Pittsburgh argument, I have to take the position of a rabid moderate: I found it to be a weird place with a nice and clean downtown but with really oddly configured neighborhoods and suburbs. Some of it was very dumpy, some of it just old and crowded, some nice. But all strange to me. That said, Cranberry Twp has a lot of stuff and should be signed where appropriate.
Lastly, you lost me on the "Pittsburgh sucks" argument when you said that Baltimore is better. That's laughable. Baltimore is not better - Baltimore is a real pit, and has been since at least 1969 (earliest I remember how it was driving through there). Whatever issues you had with Pittsburgh, I can assure you that they would've been 5 times worse in an equivalent part of Baltimore.
Perhaps he is a disgruntled Ravens fan who hates the Steelers? Just spit ballin here.
He's from Winchester. And he claims to have lived in Pittsburgh.
Quote from: hobsini2 on May 08, 2021, 10:07:06 PM
Quote from: StogieGuy7 on April 30, 2021, 11:41:59 AM
Hahaha! Just reading the last 24 hours of this thread and am thoroughly entertained! :-D
Obviously, Pittsburgh belongs as a control city on signs along I-76, I-79, and even I-70 to the east of it's divergence from the PA Turnpike. Why? Because that's the way a motorist would need to travel in order to get there. The fact that those interstates don't enter the city proper doesn't matter - that's the route you travel to reach the correct exit to get to that place. This is the concept and it's fairly simple.
As for the Pittsburgh argument, I have to take the position of a rabid moderate: I found it to be a weird place with a nice and clean downtown but with really oddly configured neighborhoods and suburbs. Some of it was very dumpy, some of it just old and crowded, some nice. But all strange to me. That said, Cranberry Twp has a lot of stuff and should be signed where appropriate.
Lastly, you lost me on the "Pittsburgh sucks" argument when you said that Baltimore is better. That's laughable. Baltimore is not better - Baltimore is a real pit, and has been since at least 1969 (earliest I remember how it was driving through there). Whatever issues you had with Pittsburgh, I can assure you that they would've been 5 times worse in an equivalent part of Baltimore.
Perhaps he is a disgruntled Ravens fan who hates the Steelers? Just spit ballin here.
I think he had a bad experience in Pittsburgh and is taking it out on the entire city or I guess metro area since I've seen him bashing some Pittsburgh suburbs too. I've been to Pittsburgh a few times not too often but I've been there enough and it doesn't seem like that bad of a city just kind of a strange town I think I saw someone else say that too and I kind of felt that as well that times I've been there. I don't know really what to say about Pittsburgh but I don't really have anything bad to say about it. I thought the ride in on I-376 from Monroeville there was a stretch through there before you got to the tunnel that I didn't think was too safe but it might be fine and that's Wilkinsburg. Otherwise I guess I don't know enough about the Pittsburgh area but I just find it as a strange city. It's not any worse than any other city of it's size though that I've been to.
I-605 in Los Angeles County should have Duarte at its northbound control and Seal Beach at its southbound control city.
Quote from: bing101 on May 11, 2021, 12:48:04 PM
I-605 in Los Angeles County should have Duarte at its north end and Seal Beach at its south end.
I would sign Los Angeles going north until I-5.
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7634615,-71.2313617,3a,75y,263.81h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s-2BW8fqbeuDh7WVPKPJ6Hg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D-2BW8fqbeuDh7WVPKPJ6Hg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D14.04608%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
I-93 uses Concord in Massachusetts but Manchester starts getting used more in New Hampshire.