Seriously, people ranting about how much they hate roundabouts just derails good discussions. This isn't your soapbox, nor is it the place to post your conspiracy theories that DOTs are purposely wasting money on them.
Discussions like these are no better than the Daylight Savings Time discussions that got banned. They go absolutely nowhere. If you want to post about how much you hate roundabouts, the "unpopular road-related opinions" thread is the place to do it. Nowhere else.
Quote from: Molandfreak on April 14, 2023, 03:24:55 PM
If you want to post about how much you hate roundabouts, the "unpopular road-related opinions" thread is the place to do it. Nowhere else.
But it's a popular opinion. Arguably, it's more popular than liking them.
Quote from: kphoger on April 14, 2023, 03:32:23 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on April 14, 2023, 03:24:55 PM
If you want to post about how much you hate roundabouts, the "unpopular road-related opinions" thread is the place to do it. Nowhere else.
But it's a popular opinion. Arguably, it's more popular than liking them.
Which is exactly the problem. I see enough people complaining about them elsewhere on the internet and I'm just sick of it. State detail threads shouldn't be getting overrun with uncompromising people ranting about traffic control changes that tangentially relate to the actual discussion.
any specific thread you have in mind? I don't see too much recent discussions like you describe
OK, then, only if we also restrict people complaining about North Carolina's fondness for Interstate designations, Robert Moses, the I-69 trident in Texas, Breezewood, the use of small towns and general regions as control cities, Bud Shuster, the NMSL, and Colorado's refusal to sign concurrent US Routes along Interstate corridors.
Quote from: kalvado on April 14, 2023, 03:45:44 PM
any specific thread you have in mind? I don't see too much recent discussions like you describe
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=7953.msg2834412#msg2834412
Quote from: kphoger on April 14, 2023, 03:46:24 PM
OK, then, only if we also restrict people complaining about North Carolina's fondness for Interstate designations, Robert Moses, the I-69 trident in Texas, Breezewood, the use of small towns and general regions as control cities, Bud Shuster, the NMSL, and Colorado's refusal to sign concurrent US Routes along Interstate corridors.
I love all of those things! Except Robert Moses. He was a dick.
Maybe other than one person being extremely opinionated about a roundabout in that discussion, being that the roundabout idea is a DOT proposal, it seems extremely on-topic for that thread at that point in time.
How can you restrict this particular soapbox though? Even if you did, what other soapboxes would need restricting? Do we stop people next from complaining about I-238 and I-99?
Quote from: kphoger on April 14, 2023, 03:46:24 PM
OK, then, only if we also restrict people complaining about North Carolina's fondness for Interstate designations, Robert Moses, the I-69 trident in Texas, Breezewood, the use of small towns and general regions as control cities, Bud Shuster, the NMSL, and Colorado's refusal to sign concurrent US Routes along Interstate corridors.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 14, 2023, 05:31:52 PM
How can you restrict this particular soapbox though? Even if you did, what other soapboxes would need restricting? Do we stop people next from complaining about I-238 and I-99?
Already suggested. :-P
Seems like a good time to cross-post this...
Quote from: kphoger on December 05, 2017, 02:16:48 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/7xfMgsU.png)
This is AARoads where most people aren't happy with the system. Heck we got members here who won't patronize a business in Breezewood, PA because the Turnpike and I-70 don't directly connect.
You're not going to stop complaining among users. Look at MMM, it took over a month to get him to stop only cause he got the boot.
What's wrong with that song?
Quote from: roadman65 on April 14, 2023, 06:40:18 PM
This is AARoads where most people aren't happy with the system. Heck we got members here who won't patronize a business in Breezewood, PA because the Turnpike and I-70 don't directly connect.
You're not going to stop complaining among users. Look at MMM, it took over a month to get him to stop only cause he got the boot.
I'll never understand the duality here. I've never seen a positive interaction with this user, yet nobody is complaining as loudly as they did about MMM. At least MMM was funny at times, this guy is just a consistent stick in the mud.
Alternative thread title: "Can we restrict discussions that don't make an obvious point but rather do it subtly?"
Quote from: LilianaUwU on April 14, 2023, 07:00:32 PM
What's wrong with that song?
"Roundabout" by Yes
You are officially my favorite person in the world.
What's wrong is that mountains don't come out of the sky (not even the south side). If they did, gravity would pull them to earth.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on April 14, 2023, 07:26:28 PM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on April 14, 2023, 07:00:32 PM
What's wrong with that song?
"Roundabout" by Yes
You are officially my favorite person in the world.
*insert a joke about ZA WARUDO being used to lock the thread in the near future*
Quote from: Molandfreak on April 14, 2023, 03:24:55 PM
Seriously, people ranting about how much they hate roundabouts just derails good discussions. This isn't your soapbox, nor is it the place to post your conspiracy theories that DOTs are purposely wasting money on them.
Discussions like these are no better than the Daylight Savings Time discussions that got banned. They go absolutely nowhere. If you want to post about how much you hate roundabouts, the "unpopular road-related opinions" thread is the place to do it. Nowhere else.
I prefer "popular road-related opinions" because roundabouts are that bad.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 14, 2023, 08:02:16 PM
I prefer "popular road-related opinions" because roundabouts are that bad.
I gotta agree with you there. Then again, I'm biased against roundabouts because I've experienced the single most inappropriate use of them (at the northern end of QC 199 (https://www.google.com/maps/place/47%C2%B033'15.3%22N+61%C2%B033'32.8%22W/@47.5542588,-61.5602013,297m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d47.554257!4d-61.559107)).
If it's not related to the original topic at hand and it goes on for a bit, we can split it off to its own thread. It is clearly a topic within the forum's remit, though, so we're probably not going to wholesale restrict discussion on the topic.
If anything, control city or renumbering discussions derail threads worse.
Now we need to make this a roundabout bashing thread. Just like with Limon thread.
Limon has roundabouts?
Quote from: GaryV on April 15, 2023, 07:21:21 AM
Limon has roundabouts?
I-70 - US-287 - BL-70 interchange in Limon is a diamond. It should become the first roundabout on the interstate mainline!
Quote from: kphoger on April 14, 2023, 03:32:23 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on April 14, 2023, 03:24:55 PM
If you want to post about how much you hate roundabouts, the "unpopular road-related opinions" thread is the place to do it. Nowhere else.
But it's a popular opinion. Arguably, it's more popular than liking them.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 14, 2023, 08:02:16 PM
I prefer "popular road-related opinions" because roundabouts are that bad.
I personally love roundabouts. But I totally agree that hating them is a popular road-related opinion.
The real question is if the OP learned their lesson from this thread.
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2023, 08:58:42 AM
The real question is if the OP learned their lesson from this thread.
Remember when Terry Shea suggested you get a lobotomy? That isn't just abusive, it's
psychotic. I won't apologize for trying to bring attention to a chronic thread derailer who doesn't have the ability to participate in discussions in a civil manner. The fact that he was able to soapbox that much shows that he isn't under the posting restrictions he should be under.
Again, when a user is a little bit annoying and/or posts too much="OMG this user is the worst! They need to be banned!"
But when a user is actually abusive=*crickets*
Quote from: Molandfreak on April 15, 2023, 01:36:28 PM
Quote from: Rothman on April 15, 2023, 08:58:42 AM
The real question is if the OP learned their lesson from this thread.
Remember when Terry Shea suggested you get a lobotomy? That isn't just abusive, it's psychotic. I won't apologize for trying to bring attention to a chronic thread derailer who doesn't have the ability to participate in discussions in a civil manner. The fact that he was able to soapbox that much shows that he isn't under the posting restrictions he should be under.
Again, when a user is a little bit annoying and/or posts too much="OMG this user is the worst! They need to be banned!"
But when a user is actually abusive=*crickets*
The former land of the First Amendment.....
I'm wondering what the supposed "lesson" learned was supposed to be? I don't necessarily disagree with the OP that the topic he brought up is annoying. I just don't think there is a good way to restrict/mitigate something so mainstream as people not liking roundabouts.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2023, 02:19:24 PM
I'm wondering what the supposed "lesson" learned was supposed to be? I don't necessarily disagree with the OP that the topic he brought up is annoying. I just don't think there is a good way to restrict/mitigate something so mainstream as people not liking roundabouts.
That complaining about a topic on this forum only serves to prolong that topic, rather than constrain it.
Dumbbells are popping up all over the interstates. I'm sure someday, CDOT will install one in Limon.
Quote from: roadman65 on April 15, 2023, 04:43:46 PM
Dumbbells are popping up all over the interstates. I'm sure someday, CDOT will install one in Limon.
So we can add Limon to:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=32494.0
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2023, 02:19:24 PM
I'm wondering what the supposed "lesson" learned was supposed to be?
Offer some evidence to back up your opinions on roundabouts? For example: higher accident rates, higher fatal crashes, roundabout costs XXX amount more than a stoplight, more congestion, etc. Something besides "Eww.... roundabouts! Icky!"
Blindly screaming "Waste of money" without some numbers to back it up doesn't get us anywhere. I almost never hear a good, cogent, logical reason behind a "Waste of money" complaint - it's usually a clear indication to me that the person spouting the opinion is ignorant about WHY the money is being spent. It's usually a knee jerk reaction to something they invested little thought into.
The visceral hatred towards roundabouts tells me one thing - they get people's attention. That's honestly a rare thing today - drivers are usually more obsessed with their phones than what's outside their windshield. Also, the consequences of screwing up at a roundabout tend to be minor v.s. the horrific wrecks when someone gets T-boned at high speed at a stoplight.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on April 15, 2023, 04:59:05 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 15, 2023, 04:43:46 PM
Dumbbells are popping up all over the interstates. I'm sure someday, CDOT will install one in Limon.
So we can add Limon to:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=32494.0
Already suggested:
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=32494.msg2823302;topicseen#msg2823302
Pretty sure Limon is a roundabout discussion, or perhaps a Moebius.
"it's not big enough of a city"
"then we use a bigger city"
"it's too far away"
"then we use a control state"
"but control states are bad"
"so we'll use another city"
"what city is out there that people know?"
"they can use a map"
"but nobody uses maps anymore"
"they'll use a GPS anyway"
"people shouldn't use their GPS, it's distracting and makes for bad drivers"
"maybe we'll have less drivers on the road then"
"then why would they put an interstate there?"
"so Limon can get to Denver"
Quote from: hbelkins on April 14, 2023, 08:02:16 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on April 14, 2023, 03:24:55 PM
Seriously, people ranting about how much they hate roundabouts just derails good discussions. This isn't your soapbox, nor is it the place to post your conspiracy theories that DOTs are purposely wasting money on them.
Discussions like these are no better than the Daylight Savings Time discussions that got banned. They go absolutely nowhere. If you want to post about how much you hate roundabouts, the "unpopular road-related opinions" thread is the place to do it. Nowhere else.
I prefer "popular road-related opinions" because roundabouts are that bad.
Roundabouts aren't bad. Drivers are.
Quote from: froggie on April 17, 2023, 03:06:57 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 14, 2023, 08:02:16 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on April 14, 2023, 03:24:55 PM
Seriously, people ranting about how much they hate roundabouts just derails good discussions. This isn't your soapbox, nor is it the place to post your conspiracy theories that DOTs are purposely wasting money on them.
Discussions like these are no better than the Daylight Savings Time discussions that got banned. They go absolutely nowhere. If you want to post about how much you hate roundabouts, the "unpopular road-related opinions" thread is the place to do it. Nowhere else.
I prefer "popular road-related opinions" because roundabouts are that bad.
Roundabouts aren't bad. Drivers are.
Standard response to that: change things for the better, surrender your license!
I'm still waiting for proof of a roundabout that is prone to crashing, rather than being the site of crashes.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 17, 2023, 06:17:07 PM
I'm still waiting for proof of a roundabout that is prone to crashing, rather than being the site of crashes.
Mortal Roundabouts
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 17, 2023, 06:17:07 PM
I'm still waiting for proof of a roundabout that is prone to crashing, rather than being the site of crashes.
Put an advertising billboard in the middle. Wait until it gets a Windows error message.
Quote from: Molandfreak on April 14, 2023, 03:24:55 PM
Seriously, people ranting about how much they hate roundabouts just derails good discussions. This isn't your soapbox, nor is it the place to post your conspiracy theories that DOTs are purposely wasting money on them.
Discussions like these are no better than the Daylight Savings Time discussions that got banned. They go absolutely nowhere. If you want to post about how much you hate roundabouts, the "unpopular road-related opinions" thread is the place to do it. Nowhere else.
I don't even know how money is being wasted when studies have pretty consistently shown roundabouts, when implemented properly, work exactly as they should.
Quote from: Molandfreak on April 14, 2023, 03:24:55 PM
Discussions like these are no better than the Daylight Savings Time discussions that got banned. They go absolutely nowhere.
Would you say they... go in circles? :spin:
Quote from: froggie on April 17, 2023, 03:06:57 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 14, 2023, 08:02:16 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on April 14, 2023, 03:24:55 PM
Seriously, people ranting about how much they hate roundabouts just derails good discussions. This isn't your soapbox, nor is it the place to post your conspiracy theories that DOTs are purposely wasting money on them.
Discussions like these are no better than the Daylight Savings Time discussions that got banned. They go absolutely nowhere. If you want to post about how much you hate roundabouts, the "unpopular road-related opinions" thread is the place to do it. Nowhere else.
I prefer "popular road-related opinions" because roundabouts are that bad.
Roundabouts aren't bad. Drivers are.
Are roundabouts the only modern feature that aren't as forgiving of driver error? In things like DDIs and J-turns/RCUTs/Michigan lefts, there's a certain amount of "driver-proofing" that lets people mask bad driving habits. I don't think that's the case with roundabouts.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 18, 2023, 11:29:21 AM
Are roundabouts the only modern feature that aren't as forgiving of driver error? In things like DDIs and J-turns/RCUTs/Michigan lefts, there's a certain amount of "driver-proofing" that lets people mask bad driving habits. I don't think that's the case with roundabouts.
Roundabouts are forgiving of driver error. Rarely do they result in high-speed T-bone crashes: generally, crashes are low-speed glancing blows. As has been shown in That Other Thread, adding lanes to the roundabout introduces non-sideswipe conflict points, but they're still not generally 90° conflicts. Failing to properly yield at a two-way stop has the potential for much greater harm than failing to properly yield at a roundabout.
The sorts of driver error I most commonly see at roundabouts are these:
(1) don't understand what the white stripes on the pavement are for, can't drive without encroaching into another lane
(2) too timid, refuse to go when a gap opens up
(3) aaahh!! something unfamiliar!! best to just stop right here until God himself tells me to go
Quote from: formulanone on April 15, 2023, 08:51:32 PM
Pretty sure Limon is a roundabout discussion, or perhaps a Moebius.
I think a roundabout completely around Limon is a great idea. A Moebius roundabout would be even better.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 18, 2023, 11:29:21 AM
Quote from: froggie on April 17, 2023, 03:06:57 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 14, 2023, 08:02:16 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on April 14, 2023, 03:24:55 PM
Seriously, people ranting about how much they hate roundabouts just derails good discussions. This isn't your soapbox, nor is it the place to post your conspiracy theories that DOTs are purposely wasting money on them.
Discussions like these are no better than the Daylight Savings Time discussions that got banned. They go absolutely nowhere. If you want to post about how much you hate roundabouts, the "unpopular road-related opinions" thread is the place to do it. Nowhere else.
I prefer "popular road-related opinions" because roundabouts are that bad.
Roundabouts aren't bad. Drivers are.
Are roundabouts the only modern feature that aren't as forgiving of driver error? In things like DDIs and J-turns/RCUTs/Michigan lefts, there's a certain amount of "driver-proofing" that lets people mask bad driving habits. I don't think that's the case with roundabouts.
You are trying to compare layouts which are still light controlled with an uncontrolled design. If anything, FYA is the only one I can think of which may force a movement without right of way. Same for traditional light without dedicated turn lanes though.
Once upon a time I compared a roundabout with the mandatory RTOR - possibly from the second or third lane. That lack of protection is the biggest factor distinguishing roundabouts from many other mid to high volume designs from my perspective.