So I have a trip planned for the weekend crossing 5 state lines and an overnight stay at a hotel in Charleston, WV. I'll be sticking to interstates/ highways. Other than the hotel I only plan on stopping for gas and toilet breaks at highway rest stops.
Some of my friends and family don't want me to go due to concerns relating to covid:
1, interstate travel becomes restricted overnight without warning, stranding me far away.
2, hate crime against me, an Asian
I have until Saturday morning to decide. I can see where they are coming from but I also doubt there's a significant chance of either happening.
I do want to go since now seems like the perfect time for a road trip, with low congestion and cheap gas. I'll welcome any input I can get on this.
If you go, try not to touch anything.
For example, when purchasing gas, use gloves when entering your zip code.
Bring purell with you. Everytime you do something different, sanitize your hands. Bought food from a store or restaurant? Sanitize your hands. Washed the windshield? sanitize your hands... ect. It may seem like overkill, but if you are going to travel, that's the best way for you to protect yourself, and more importantly, protect everyone else around you.
I would, and in my case I have this entire month. Granted you'll want to pay really close attention to possible restrictions that might pop up on travel. I really can't too much what to Asphalt said already regarding sanitation other than maybe back roads and off the grid gets away from people even more.
I seriously don't think travel is a good idea at this time. Just sayin'.
Good luck and stay safe. :colorful:
Not sure what states you are going to, but Kentucky, Ohio, and West Virginia have closed restaurants to inside dining. A number of retailers such as Kroger and Walmart are limiting hours of operation, closing earlier in the evening than had been announced earlier in the week.
Where in Charleston are you overnighting?
Honestly, I don't see violence against people of Asian descent to be A Thing during the current situation. Has it happened? I've heard of no instances of this occurring.
Pennsylvania has suspended construction activities, but Kentucky hasn't, and AFAIK West Virginia hasn't either. I've heard of no restrictions on travel in the West Virginia area.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 19, 2020, 02:39:53 PM
Honestly, I don't see violence against people of Asian descent to be A Thing during the current situation. Has it happened? I've heard of no instances of this occurring.
Sadly, I have heard of it happening.
I wouldn't be concerned about interstate travel being restricted or a hate crime. You'll just be looked down upon for travelling when it's being strongly recommended not to.
Don't be a spreader.
I'd personally wait a bit to see how the situation looks before doing any significant non-essential travel. I don't want to be part of the problem.
But related to this, I am trying to decide if there's any harm in less significant travel, the old "Sunday Drive" kind of outing, at this point. I'm thinking take a few hours drive somewhere by one route and home by another, with the only stops likely to be a quick bathroom stop and maybe filling the tank one more time than I'd otherwise need to fill it. Could either bring lunch/snacks, or try to patronize a struggling restaurant with a takeout order. I suppose there would also be no harm in stopping at things like scenic overlooks, as long as we'd maintain distance from anyone else with the same idea. Equipped with Clorox wipes and hand sanitzer as needed of course.
^ Yeah, I am thinking of the same thing. I don't think I'll be able to be cooped up for weeks without going anywhere, but personally I wouldn't do anything overnight until all of this craziness is over.
Sunday drives can be done easier in some places than others. Out East it is pretty damn hard to avoid people but it can be done increasingly easily the further west you go. This past week I took the Parkfield Grade from Warthan Canyon south to Cholame Valley via Parkfield. I only saw one person the entire time I was driving which made it definitely a good place to go given the current situation. But then again day trips like that for me usually include me packing my own lunch and bringing hiking gear, I don't know how mainstream any of that is in the roadgeeking world.
Re: Sunday drives: If all you do is take a drive and don't get out of the car, aren't you avoiding people?
Sure if you need gas you might see someone. But that contact is minimal and you should be OK if you take reasonable touching precautions as noted above.
Just know that states are ramping up restrictions as we speak. PA is forcing the closure of all "non-life-sustaining businesses". There was some confusion about whether hotels were included in that and I'm not 100% sure where hotels stand. And it seems like as one state ups the stakes on things, others seem to follow.
Taking a local road trip that doesn't involve an overnight stay somewhere? That seems pretty safe with the sanitizing recommendations above. But overnight? You may risk having to improvise at the last minute.
And YES...I have heard of violence against Asians. I don't think it's widespread at all...maybe an incident or two or three...but if you're keeping social distance anyway I don't think it's an issue to worry about beyond the normal "know your surroundings" stance.
Going for a drive? Yes.
Filling up with gas? Sure, wear gloves and sanitize!
Enjoying nature at a park? No problem, as long as you keep to yourself.
Ending up at somewhere other than home at the end of the day? Mmm. Something I would probably avoid for a few weeks if at all possible.
Quote from: jemacedo9 on March 20, 2020, 08:33:24 AM
And YES...I have heard of violence against Asians.
This makes me so damn mad.
As long as America tolerates hate crimes of any sort, maybe America doesn't deserve to come back from the pandemic.
Quote from: bandit957 on March 20, 2020, 10:56:23 AM
Quote from: jemacedo9 on March 20, 2020, 08:33:24 AM
And YES...I have heard of violence against Asians.
This makes me so damn mad.
As long as America tolerates hate crimes of any sort, maybe America doesn't deserve to come back from the pandemic.
That's what our society likes to do: find a place to place blame, and then direct anger at that "in the name of justice". And some people take it to an extreme. And it's sad.
One more thing to keep in mind - many states are closing their freeway rest areas. In at least one state, it was apparently due to the fact that people kept stealing the TP.
Quote from: bandit957 on March 19, 2020, 04:38:42 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 19, 2020, 02:39:53 PM
Honestly, I don't see violence against people of Asian descent to be A Thing during the current situation. Has it happened? I've heard of no instances of this occurring.
Sadly, I have heard of it happening.
Just a few :-/
https://nypost.com/2020/03/05/straphanger-sprays-asian-man-with-febreze-in-possible-hate-crime/
https://nypost.com/2020/03/12/coronavirus-in-ny-teen-wanted-for-attacking-asian-man-in-possible-coronavirus-hate-crime/
https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-the-uk/the-rise-of-coronavirus-hate-crimes
https://nypost.com/2020/03/17/asian-woman-assaulted-in-manhattan-blamed-for-coronavirus-cops/
https://www.wlns.com/news/health/coronavirus/hate-crimes-towards-asians-increase-during-coronavirus-pandemic/
https://www-1.fresnobee.com/news/coronavirus/article241340761.html#aprd
https://www.kut.org/post/spike-prejudice-asian-americans-dfw-face-racism-coronavirus-spreads
https://nypost.com/2020/03/10/unhinged-woman-slugs-asian-lady-for-not-wearing-coronavirus-mask/
https://kmph.com/news/local/vandal-tags-fresno-asian-american-family-car-with-racist-graffiti-related-to-coronavirus
https://time.com/5797836/coronavirus-racism-stereotypes-attacks/
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/03/uk/coronavirus-assault-student-london-scli-intl-gbr/index.html
https://www.fox10tv.com/news/coronavirus/chinese-student-assaulted-in-racist-coronavirus-attack-in-london/article_c4f52e99-27dc-580f-8bed-938366072dfc.html
https://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/fp/police-launch-hate-crime-probe-after-teens-claim-two-dundee-bus-passengers-were-carriers-of-the-coronavirus/
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/korean-men-seattle-targeted-attacker-screaming-i-hate-chinese-n1109566
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/16/they-yelled-coronavirus-first-british-attack-victim-east-asian-man
https://www.vox.com/2020/2/7/21126758/coronavirus-xenophobia-racism-china-asians
I made my decision yesterday:
The CDC webpage on corona has said they aren't issuing domestic travel restrictions last I checked, and an interview with Fauci from ~5 days ago said he doesn't think domestic travel restrictions are likely, FWIW.
Based on what I gather from the comments, I've decided to can my overnight plans for now. Spent all day yesterday programming a complex route into sygic that'll clinch a few of the remaining interstates within a day trip's reach, today's itinerary includes 2 service and 2 street-level gas stations. Avoided water a bit more than usual so hopefully I can avoid the restroom, at one or more of the stops. I have a pack of wet wipes in the car, and I should be all set...
#covidroadtrip
Since you're from Mass, it's worth noting that many gas stations in New England have closed their convenience store portions and only have the gas pumps running.
Not related to your planned trip to West Virginia, but my brother is planning to head out tomorrow for a previously scheduled camping/fishing trip to Alabama. His route will be I-75 to I-285 to I-85, and then I think he uses I-185 to get into Alabama. Part of the reason he's going is because gas is so cheap right now. So far, Tennessee has not closed restaurants to dine-in service statewide, although I know local officials in Nashville and Chattanooga have done so. I'm not sure about Georgia or Alabama.
(https://www.cleveland.com/resizer/V967AQK9ioOPRcEfZ85iPeZ58GA=/1280x0/smart/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-advancelocal.s3.amazonaws.com/public/MTT2D3C4BBBZJGGVLCOJJCFXTA.png)
Quote from: 1 on March 21, 2020, 09:42:14 PM
(https://www.cleveland.com/resizer/V967AQK9ioOPRcEfZ85iPeZ58GA=/1280x0/smart/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-advancelocal.s3.amazonaws.com/public/MTT2D3C4BBBZJGGVLCOJJCFXTA.png)
As of midnight tonight (3/23) - change Ohio from light orange to dark orange
Kentucky's going dark orange as of this afternoon.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 23, 2020, 12:03:35 PM
Kentucky's going dark orange as of this afternoon.
Fortunately, I don't think it's complete martial law yet - unlike Ohio.
ok so between my last post and now, many localities have issued shelter in place orders, and Massachusetts has issued a stay at home advisory. Massachusetts itself has not banned travel, but many places have banned travel unrelated to essential business.
I have another trip planned for sometime this week, this time to clinch I-80 from the PA/OH border to its eastern terminus. It involves 2 stops at rest stops in CT and 1 stop at the loves at the OH side of the PA/OH border.
So from what I can gather:
OH has a stay at home order for residents
PA does not have hard restrictions
NJ has stay at home order
NY has the "pause" order and New Yorkers must stay at home
CT does not have hard restrictions
MA does not have hard restrictions
It seems that non-essential travel is prohibited for local residents, which means it shouldn't apply to me right? :confused:
Even the places with "shelter in place" restrictions allow for being outside and away from home if the six-foot spacing recommendations are observed. You can still go for a jog or a hike.
Quote from: yand on March 23, 2020, 12:12:02 PM
ok so between my last post and now, many localities have issued shelter in place orders, and Massachusetts has issued a stay at home advisory. Massachusetts itself has not banned travel, but many places have banned travel unrelated to essential business.
I have another trip planned for sometime this week, this time to clinch I-80 from the PA/OH border to its eastern terminus. It involves 2 stops at rest stops in CT and 1 stop at the loves at the OH side of the PA/OH border.
So from what I can gather:
OH has a stay at home order for residents
PA does not have hard restrictions
NY has the "pause" order and New Yorkers must stay at home
CT does not have hard restrictions
MA does not have hard restrictions
It seems that non-essential travel is prohibited for local residents, which means it shouldn't apply to me right? :confused:
There's really no reason why auto travel by someone traveling alone would be prohibited. Anything that's over 6 feet away from other people should be safe.
Quote from: bandit957 on March 23, 2020, 12:14:39 PM
Quote from: yand on March 23, 2020, 12:12:02 PM
ok so between my last post and now, many localities have issued shelter in place orders, and Massachusetts has issued a stay at home advisory. Massachusetts itself has not banned travel, but many places have banned travel unrelated to essential business.
I have another trip planned for sometime this week, this time to clinch I-80 from the PA/OH border to its eastern terminus. It involves 2 stops at rest stops in CT and 1 stop at the loves at the OH side of the PA/OH border.
So from what I can gather:
OH has a stay at home order for residents
PA does not have hard restrictions
NY has the "pause" order and New Yorkers must stay at home
CT does not have hard restrictions
MA does not have hard restrictions
It seems that non-essential travel is prohibited for local residents, which means it shouldn't apply to me right? :confused:
There's really no reason why auto travel by someone traveling alone would be prohibited. Anything that's over 6 feet away from other people should be safe.
That would be common sense I think, but I'm hoping for something a bit more solid to cover my bases, legally speaking.
The part that trips me up is while "going for a walk" is considered an essential purpose, there's nothing specifically mentioning the kind of non-essential but low risk long distance travel that I'm doing
for example in the OH stay at home order faq:
https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/covid-19/home/stay-at-home-information/stay-at-home-order-frequently-asked-questions
"It does NOT prohibit essential activities like going to the grocery store, receiving medical care, or taking your pet for a walk."
It also says "Residents can return home from out of state and can leave the state." but under the condition "Planes and any other form of travel should only be used for essential purposes."
Michigan is going dark Tues 12:01 am.
You can still go and shop in NY.
I think a lot of people have the misperception that they'll be locked inside their houses altogether.
"Most Restrictive" is no longer "Non-Essential Businesses Closed."
Most Restrictive is now "Shelter-in-Place" orders, such as Delaware and now parts of PA and maybe Ohio (I didn't read their order).
The distinction between "Non-Essential Businesses Closed" and "Shelter-in-Place' isn't totally clear to me, but there is a difference. Certain PA counties went from the former to the latter effective tomorrow morning.
But some states like NJ are at least discussing curfews.
Quote from: yand on March 23, 2020, 12:34:58 PM
The part that trips me up is while "going for a walk" is considered an essential purpose, there's nothing specifically mentioning the kind of non-essential but low risk long distance travel that I'm doing
So if you travel through suburban NYC, which is exploding with cases, and you accidentally pick up the virus, and you are asymptomatic for three days while you return west, and you accidentally spread the virus westward...then what? That's what this is trying to prevent.
The shelter-in-place orders are allowing local outdoor socially-distant exercise because that will limit your chances of spreading things. For me, that means as far as I can go without having to use a restroom. Which is maybe a 3 hour round trip if I am hydrating properly.
If you will be visiting a green state, you should check the restrictions in the municipality or county you will be visiting. When it says Least Restrictive, that is on a state basis, but that may not be true on a local basis. For example, Kansas City and St. Louis have more strict restrictions than the rest of MO, and for good reason.
Just remember what the purpose of all of these restrictions are.
There is a highly contagious respiratory virus that is currently affecting our population. It is so highly contagious that we have basically shut down our economy to try and halt it's progress.
On Saturday almost 800 people in Italy died from it -- most of those fatalities happening in a fairly confined geographical area.
Whatever anyone decides to do over the next few weeks, keep all of that in mind.
We didn't shut down our economy for needless spread of the disease by negligent behavior, so whatever you do, be smart about it.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on March 23, 2020, 10:49:31 PM
On Saturday almost 800 people in Italy died from it -- most of those fatalities happening in a fairly confined geographical area.
Saw multiple news reports the last couple of days that Italy is also recording every death by someone who has the virus as being killed by the virus.
Pneumonia? COPD? Heart attack? You died of the virus.
That certainly inflates the numbers.
I went to my primary care doctor last week for something totally unrelated and asked him his frank opinion. He said he thought much of the panic was overblown. He noted several factors in Italy's alarming numbers: a more elderly population, a healthcare system that's substandard when compared to ours, much greater interaction with China, and a few other things. He wasn't overly concerned about it overwhelming the American health care system and noted (keep in mind that this was last week) that the off-label use of the malaria drug was showing promise in treating the virus.
On trips, I often stop for restroom breaks at fast-food restaurants. Most of them have closed their lobbies, even to carry-out service (although many sit-down places are still allowing people to come in and carry out their orders). Convenience stores will for the most part be open, but in general their restrooms aren't as tidy as restaurants. I'd rather stop at McDonald's than Speedway.
Public restrooms always have pee everywhere.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 24, 2020, 01:35:45 PM
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on March 23, 2020, 10:49:31 PM
On Saturday almost 800 people in Italy died from it -- most of those fatalities happening in a fairly confined geographical area.
Saw multiple news reports the last couple of days that Italy is also recording every death by someone who has the virus as being killed by the virus.
The virus itself isn't usually what kills people. People usually die from bacterial pneumonia as a side effect from virus. So, yeah, how they are reporting deaths kind of makes sense. I don't ever remember seeing the military mobilized to transport the dead on the news. Do you? That seems like something I'd remember seeing.
I am sure there is always some differing opinions in the medical field, but it seems as though most public health officials across the continent (and world?) don't agree with your physician.
Italy has a fine health care system. I'm sure there are strengths and weaknesses in their system like there are in most locations, but I'm sure you could look to some inner city hospitals in America and find some serious flaws there as well.
There have been some pretty serious known risks with the malaria drug for over a month now too:
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/covid-19-drug-touted-by-trump-and-musk-has-one-problem-two-grams-can-kill-a-human
(The National Post is a right leaning newspaper in Canada).
And by the way,
Life expectancy in Italy is 82.54 years. In the US it's 78.69 years.
The infant mortality rate in Italy is 2.6 deaths per 1000 live births. In the US it's 5.8 deaths per 1000 live births.
So, I don't think it's fair or accurate to say that Italy has a substandard healthcare system compared to that of the US. If anything, these important metrics seem to indicate that the US has a substandard health care system to Italy.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 24, 2020, 01:35:45 PM
He noted several factors in Italy's alarming numbers: a more elderly population, a healthcare system that's substandard when compared to ours, much greater interaction with China, and a few other things.
Much greater interaction
with each other, I might add.
Quote from: webny99 on March 24, 2020, 08:47:08 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 24, 2020, 01:35:45 PM
He noted several factors in Italy's alarming numbers: a more elderly population, a healthcare system that's substandard when compared to ours, much greater interaction with China, and a few other things.
Much greater interaction with each other, I might add.
Italy also has a fairly dense population (60+ million people in an area the size of Arizona). I think I saw somewhere that 99% of COVID-19 deaths in Italy had at least one underlying condition (with a good chunk of those having multiple underlying conditions). I also saw that Italy has fewer hospital and ICU beds per capita than most other European countries.
Quote from: bandit957 on March 20, 2020, 10:56:23 AM
Quote from: jemacedo9 on March 20, 2020, 08:33:24 AM
And YES...I have heard of violence against Asians.
This makes me so damn mad.
As long as America tolerates hate crimes of any sort, maybe America doesn't deserve to come back from the pandemic.
You know, I understand your sentiment. But I really hope those of us who don't will prevail.
As for any road trips, I'm currently holding off on them. But I really wish Trump was right about this ending by Easter, because I feel like jumping in my car and taking a day trip as soon as this ends!
Quote from: D-Dey65 on March 27, 2020, 10:10:45 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on March 20, 2020, 10:56:23 AM
Quote from: jemacedo9 on March 20, 2020, 08:33:24 AM
And YES...I have heard of violence against Asians.
This makes me so damn mad.
As long as America tolerates hate crimes of any sort, maybe America doesn't deserve to come back from the pandemic.
You know, I understand your sentiment. But I really hope those of us who don't will prevail.
As for any road trips, I'm currently holding off on them. But I really wish Trump was right about this ending by Easter, because I feel like jumping in my car and taking a day trip as soon as this ends!
Kentucky's official "what you can and can't do" guidelines list "going for a drive" as an OK activity. I worked outside my place today and there was a steady stream of motorcycles passing by.