Is Countertrolling a Troll The Answer

[roadman65]

You could argue that we did by letting the MMM thread get to 84 pages. And that's just one thread.

Countertrolling may not be the right term. It's just straight up engaging the troll.

And 18 pages more in this thread after he's gone.
I think MMM has a reason to be proud!

At least his threads aren't the hot topic on the recent post board and it's back to seeing many different topics like it always was.

Like someone else said, you post something on his thread. Leave and come back later and fifteen other posts were posted in a short time causing you to have to go through them all to be up to speed.

[Scott5114]

I wonder why anyone felt the need to be "up to speed" on them. I mean, I kind of have to read (or at least skim) everything to see if there's anything I need to moderate. You guys have the freedom to not do that. I certainly would have availed myself of it after a certain point if I had had the option.

[JoePCool14]

I wonder why anyone felt the need to be "up to speed" on them. I mean, I kind of have to read (or at least skim) everything to see if there's anything I need to moderate. You guys have the freedom to not do that. I certainly would have availed myself of it after a certain point if I had had the option.

I for one stopped reading most of his threads. There were just too many posts!

[kalvado]

I wonder why anyone felt the need to be "up to speed" on them. I mean, I kind of have to read (or at least skim) everything to see if there's anything I need to moderate. You guys have the freedom to not do that. I certainly would have availed myself of it after a certain point if I had had the option.

I would rely more on people reporting things as problematic. Blanket reading for moderating is a bit too much effort IMHO...

[Scott5114]

I wonder why anyone felt the need to be "up to speed" on them. I mean, I kind of have to read (or at least skim) everything to see if there's anything I need to moderate. You guys have the freedom to not do that. I certainly would have availed myself of it after a certain point if I had had the option.

I would rely more on people reporting things as problematic. Blanket reading for moderating is a bit too much effort IMHO...

I mean, it's not like I'm not going to read most of it anyway.

[Roadgeekteen]

I wonder why anyone felt the need to be "up to speed" on them. I mean, I kind of have to read (or at least skim) everything to see if there's anything I need to moderate. You guys have the freedom to not do that. I certainly would have availed myself of it after a certain point if I had had the option.

Multiple times on threads I have said something only to learn that it was said earlier in big threads.

[Scott5114]

I wonder why anyone felt the need to be "up to speed" on them. I mean, I kind of have to read (or at least skim) everything to see if there's anything I need to moderate. You guys have the freedom to not do that. I certainly would have availed myself of it after a certain point if I had had the option.

Multiple times on threads I have said something only to learn that it was said earlier in big threads.

You don't have to reply to every thread.

[kalvado]

I wonder why anyone felt the need to be "up to speed" on them. I mean, I kind of have to read (or at least skim) everything to see if there's anything I need to moderate. You guys have the freedom to not do that. I certainly would have availed myself of it after a certain point if I had had the option.

Multiple times on threads I have said something only to learn that it was said earlier in big threads.

You don't have to reply to every thread.

.... I don't have fun engaging with trolls but I often can't stop myself from doing so. I also wouldn't call FritzOwl a troll IMO.I also have a tendency to try to "fix" the trolls and turn them into reliable members of the forum. ....

[roadman65]

I wonder why anyone felt the need to be "up to speed" on them. I mean, I kind of have to read (or at least skim) everything to see if there's anything I need to moderate. You guys have the freedom to not do that. I certainly would have availed myself of it after a certain point if I had had the option.

Not me so much, but other users.  I always replied to the most recent as I'm not into getting into the many arguments he was in.

[paulthemapguy]

I wonder why anyone felt the need to be "up to speed" on them. I mean, I kind of have to read (or at least skim) everything to see if there's anything I need to moderate. You guys have the freedom to not do that. I certainly would have availed myself of it after a certain point if I had had the option.

I'm in the same boat.
The person wasn't a troll, per se, but what various forums define as a "lolcow."  In other words, a punching bag who's picked on so the other forum members can feel better about themselves by comparison.  And seeing this behavior get out of hand is borne from sadness.  It's about as sad, if not sadder, than the ridiculous ideas posed by the punching bag himself.

I'm more supportive of a forum where the tropes are goofy road signs and road design decisions, rather than a forum where the tropes are certain members themselves.  And we should be careful about who we mock and ostracize; we should separate people who propose harmful ideas into a separate category from people who propose unusual ideas.

I'm not a mod so I don't have a horse in this race per se, but that's just how this forum member feels. No, countertrolling is not the answer, especially when the one accused of trolling was just unusual and wasn't trolling in the first place. My thought is to get the mods involved if a rule break occurs or if something promotes real harm.

[kphoger]

I have received an email from him. Key points:

[...]

Most of the topics were trolling ...

No, countertrolling is not the answer, especially when the one accused of trolling was just unusual and wasn't trolling in the first place.

I just want to point out that he was trolling.  He said so himself.

[webny99]

I just want to point out that he was trolling.  He said so himself.

Not to go down this road again... but it is basically unheard of for a true troll to admit to trolling. It's a sign that he was somewhat conscious of what he was doing, but also wasn't very good at it.

[SectorZ]

I just want to point out that he was trolling.  He said so himself.

Not to go down this road again... but it is basically unheard of for a true troll to admit to trolling. It's a sign that he was somewhat conscious of what he was doing, but also wasn't very good at it.

At times you can get the troll to admit they were trolling when outside of the venue they were doing so.

I highly doubt MMM cares about his legacy here, because he's either never coming back or he's creating a third sock puppet that will just get caught and banned pretty quickly. Since he doesn't have any obligation to himself to keep up the ruse, he probably felt comfortable admitting it.

[jeffandnicole]

I have received an email from him. Key points:

[...]

Most of the topics were trolling ...

No, countertrolling is not the answer, especially when the one accused of trolling was just unusual and wasn't trolling in the first place.

I just want to point out that he was trolling.  He said so himself.

To be factual, it was a 3rd party that said he said he was trolling.  We can choose to believe that the post and the email was truthful, but he didn't exactly say so himself here.

[jakeroot]

I have received an email from him. Key points:

[...]

Most of the topics were trolling ...

No, countertrolling is not the answer, especially when the one accused of trolling was just unusual and wasn't trolling in the first place.

I just want to point out that he was trolling.  He said so himself.

To be factual, it was a 3rd party that said he said he was trolling.  We can choose to believe that the post and the email was truthful, but he didn't exactly say so himself here.

Under the circumstances, what difference does it make? It's not like he could actually say so himself at this point.

[Scott5114]

I mean, he certainly passes the duck test to me.

[Max Rockatansky]

Does anyone seriously believe MMM wasn't a troll at this point on the basis of his own post content?  If you were on the fence how is a second hand account from someone credible like 1 not enough evidence?

[Roadgeekteen]

Does anyone seriously believe MMM wasn't a troll at this point on the basis of his own post content?  If you were on the fence how is a second hand account from someone credible like 1 not enough evidence?

Well MMM has been banned already, so that should be proof enough, as he wasn't getting banned pre discovery.

[webny99]

Does anyone seriously believe MMM wasn't a troll at this point on the basis of his own post content?  If you were on the fence how is a second hand account from someone credible like 1 not enough evidence?

Here is the definition of trolling: to make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them.

I am not disputing that's what MMM was doing, but I maintain that his activity was really pretty mild trolling, even by this forum's standards. And because MMM managed to stay around for so long and even shared some personal information here, there was reason not to write him off immediately, and to think that he at least had some potential to contribute in a non-trolling matter.

It really doesn't matter now, and I'm not trying to defend MMM, but the discourse surrounding him seems to have gotten so extended and dramatized that I think it is worth pointing out he wasn't really that bad. But maybe his blurring of the line between acceptable and non-acceptable activity is partly why we're still so fascinated with him, even though we should have just closed the book and moved on long ago (which, ironically, is exactly what we would have done with a more egregious troll).

[webny99]

Does anyone seriously believe MMM wasn't a troll at this point on the basis of his own post content?  If you were on the fence how is a second hand account from someone credible like 1 not enough evidence?

Well MMM has been banned already, so that should be proof enough, as he wasn't getting banned pre discovery.

If I understand correctly, the ban was because of the sockpuppet, not because his forum activity was determined to be trolling.

[Roadgeekteen]

Does anyone seriously believe MMM wasn't a troll at this point on the basis of his own post content?  If you were on the fence how is a second hand account from someone credible like 1 not enough evidence?

Well MMM has been banned already, so that should be proof enough, as he wasn't getting banned pre discovery.

If I understand correctly, the ban was because of the sockpuppet, not because his forum activity was determined to be trolling.

If trolling were to be the cause of his ban he would have been banned much earlier on.

[Max Rockatansky]

Does anyone seriously believe MMM wasn't a troll at this point on the basis of his own post content?  If you were on the fence how is a second hand account from someone credible like 1 not enough evidence?

Here is the definition of trolling: to make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them.

I am not disputing that's what MMM was doing, but I maintain that his activity was really pretty mild trolling, even by this forum's standards. And because MMM managed to stay around for so long and even shared some personal information here, there was reason not to write him off immediately, and to think that he at least had some potential to contribute in a non-trolling matter.

It really doesn't matter now, and I'm not trying to defend MMM, but the discourse surrounding him seems to have gotten so extended and dramatized that I think it is worth pointing out he wasn't really that bad. But maybe his blurring of the line between acceptable and non-acceptable activity is partly why we're still so fascinated with him, even though we should have just closed the book and moved on long ago (which, ironically, is exactly what we would have done with a more egregious troll).

I'm not claiming the guy was Crash_It.  All the same, he was clearly trying to get a rise out of the forum numerous times.  Yeah sure, when it was confined to his own threads it was mostly harmless aside from being annoying.  Trouble was he wrecked a lot of legitimate threads by way of polluting them with his crazed ideas and thoughts on all manner of things. 

[Roadgeekteen]

Does anyone seriously believe MMM wasn't a troll at this point on the basis of his own post content?  If you were on the fence how is a second hand account from someone credible like 1 not enough evidence?

Here is the definition of trolling: to make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them.

I am not disputing that's what MMM was doing, but I maintain that his activity was really pretty mild trolling, even by this forum's standards. And because MMM managed to stay around for so long and even shared some personal information here, there was reason not to write him off immediately, and to think that he at least had some potential to contribute in a non-trolling matter.

It really doesn't matter now, and I'm not trying to defend MMM, but the discourse surrounding him seems to have gotten so extended and dramatized that I think it is worth pointing out he wasn't really that bad. But maybe his blurring of the line between acceptable and non-acceptable activity is partly why we're still so fascinated with him, even though we should have just closed the book and moved on long ago (which, ironically, is exactly what we would have done with a more egregious troll).

I'm not claiming the guy was Crash_It.  All the same, he was clearly trying to get a rise out of the forum numerous times.  Yeah sure, when it was confined to his own threads it was mostly harmless aside from being annoying.  Trouble was he wrecked a lot of legitimate threads by way of polluting them with his crazed ideas and thoughts on all manner of things.

It's really hard to moderate, because what is the meaning of "wrecking" a thread?

[kalvado]

Does anyone seriously believe MMM wasn't a troll at this point on the basis of his own post content?  If you were on the fence how is a second hand account from someone credible like 1 not enough evidence?

Problem was not with the troll, but with his zookepers.
A well-trained properly maintained troll, who is not ofed on a regular basis,  grows long white fur and doesn't bite people around him. 

[Roadgeekteen]

Does anyone seriously believe MMM wasn't a troll at this point on the basis of his own post content?  If you were on the fence how is a second hand account from someone credible like 1 not enough evidence?

Problem was not with the troll, but with his zookepers.
A well-trained properly maintained troll, who is not ofed on a regular basis,  grows long white fur and doesn't bite people around him.

To be completely honest, it was fun to argue with MMM at times. It was only when he started talking about child abuse did it go from fun to upsetting and uncomfortable.