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Funeral processions

Started by hbelkins, March 16, 2023, 11:41:28 AM

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jeffandnicole

Quote from: hbelkins on March 20, 2023, 02:50:52 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 20, 2023, 10:54:10 AM
This is a bit of a tangent, but semi-related, and not worth starting a new thread for... Is it legal to pass an ambulance on active duty with their lights flashing?

IANAL, but my educated opinion would be that if you are exceeding the speed limit, then no, it's not legal. Not the act of passing the ambulance in and of itself, but breaking the speed limit.

Lights being in operation on an ambulance gives that vehicle the right to exceed the speed limit. It doesn't give you the right to exceed the speed limit in passing it.

It's legal to pass a cop if the cop is doing less than the speed limit. I've done it before, without issue.

When I was commuting on I-64 to Frankfort years ago, I would occasionally fall into a platoon of traffic that was behind a Kentucky state trooper doing the speed limit. No one wanted to tempt fate by passing him. It's unusual to see a cop driving the speed limit; even if they're not running lights and/or sirens, they typically drive much faster than the speed limit and camp out in the left lane while doing so.

It's OT, but I'll describe what I see on my drives (at least on I-295 in NJ):

During rush hour, if a State Trooper is driving along in the left lane, they're just going up to Trenton to go to work, or at the very least, to a spot to watch traffic in the median (and they usually aren't doing traffic checks during rush hours.  They save that for non-rush hour times).  They'll want to go faster than anyone else is going. 

If they're in the right lane, they're preparing to exit or to pull over.  No matter what speed they are going, I've found they are safe to pass.  If they are going 65 in a 65 zone, and we're going 70 or 75, we can pass them.  They are not there playing gotcha.  They are legit waiting to exit.

If it's a municipal cop traveling on a highway during rush hour, they're probably going to some sort of training.  Departments seem to have rules about what speed they're allowed to go, and many seem to say they can only go about the posted speed limit.  They're going to sit in the right lane and get blown by nearly every driver on the highway.  They're not going to pull anyone over.

Now, if it's NOT rush hour, then those travelers tend not to be regulars, and tend to be more wary of troopers and officers, and may be more hesitant to pass them.




Quote from: hbelkins on March 20, 2023, 02:50:52 PM
It's unusual to see a cop driving the speed limit; even if they're not running lights and/or sirens, they typically drive much faster than the speed limit and camp out in the left lane while doing so.
Quote from: kphoger on March 20, 2023, 02:56:45 PM
(Note that cops, unlike ambulance and fire truck drivers, can generally break the speed limit while engaging in "official duties" or some vague condition like that, which basically means they can do so whenever they want.)

Just pointing out that it's almost unheard of for ANYONE to be driving under the speed limit in the left lane.  For some reason people (and I'm talking about the public in general) tend to criticize police for driving faster than the speed limit...at the same time, they would raise holy hell if they were to drive the speed limit, crying that the cops were pacing traffic for no reason and creating a traffic jam.




Quote from: webny99 on March 20, 2023, 10:54:10 AM
This is a bit of a tangent, but semi-related, and not worth starting a new thread for... Is it legal to pass an ambulance on active duty with their lights flashing?

The other night, one entered the highway about 1/2 mile front of me. I eventually noticed that it was not getting any closer or further away - it remained about 1/2 mile away. This went on for about 10 miles or so, after which I sped up to about 80 mph and grew a bit closer. By this time, the flashing lights were getting rather annoying and beginning to play tricks on my eyes, so when the highway widened from two lanes to three, I sped up a bit more and eventually got within a few hundred feet.

You had a good question...until you gave a bad example.  You can't question if it's legal to pass someone...driving 15 mph over the speed limit.  Of course it's not.

Rephrase the question. Highway is 65 mph.  Ambulance is in the left lane with lights on and sirens on going 55 mph in the left lane.  You approach in right lane going 65.  Can you pass?

Touchy subject.  Technically, you shouldn't.  You don't know when the ambulance will get over, and you don't want to pass the ambulance while in a blind spot while they start moving over.  But also, the ambulance starts creating a traffic jam as traffic bunches up behind it...which creates other issues, including for other emergency personnel that may get stuck in the ensuing traffic. 

As for the siren - the siren is usually directed towards traffic ahead of the emergency vehicle.  You didn't hear it behind the vehicle because the siren wasn't directed that way.  It wasn't directed specifically at you.  It was simply out of your hearing range.

I'm on an emergency personnel Facebook page, and one thing I found is that you can't talk to them no way no how.  Especially volunteers.  Ask them why are they trying to push thru in-between 2 lanes of traffic on a jammed 3 lane highway instead of using the clear wide empty shoulder, and you'll see a bunch of backlash that traffic should move to the shoulder.  Yet, when you try to point out that the police just sped by on the wide-open empty shoulder to get to the scene of the accident, you're told that's what they're supposed to do because it's faster.  It's a no-win situation with these people that knew-nothing before they joined, and know everything after two training classes.


hbelkins

Quote from: kphoger on March 20, 2023, 02:56:45 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 20, 2023, 02:50:52 PM
IANAL, but my educated opinion would be that if you are exceeding the speed limit, then no, it's not legal. Not the act of passing the ambulance in and of itself, but breaking the speed limit.

Lights being in operation on an ambulance gives that vehicle the right to exceed the speed limit. It doesn't give you the right to exceed the speed limit in passing it.

It's legal to pass a cop if the cop is doing less than the speed limit. I've done it before, without issue.

It's been some time since I've looked at the laws, but isn't it generally not enough for an emergency vehicle to have flashing lights on?  Don't they also have to be using an audible siren and be responding to an actual call?

(Note that cops, unlike ambulance and fire truck drivers, can generally break the speed limit while engaging in "official duties" or some vague condition like that, which basically means they can do so whenever they want.)

A couple of observations.

My office is at the turnoff from the main highway to the road that leads to the hospital. General practice is for ambulances to be running lights and sirens as they come down KY 15 and make the turn at the light, then they turn the siren off for the rest of the way to the hospital. I don't know if that's because the road passes a school, a residential area, and a nursing home and they don't want the noise to disturb people, or what.

In addition to cops, I frequently see ambulances running along the Mountain Parkway without their lights and sirens going, vastly exceeding the speed limit. This is usually on the return trip from Winchester or Lexington back to their home county. I presume it's to minimize the time that they're away from their home base, but they don't have their emergency lights on.

My office is also next door to a funeral home, and I see processions leaving frequently.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Bruce

Two of the most recent funerals I have attended required several vehicles to make an hour-long drive across the Seattle metro area on a normal weekday. It would have been a futile effort to try and keep to the unwritten rules of processions, given that traffic is to be expected and other people on the road are just as important as you and your goings-on, so they're not required to yield their right of way and time.

Turns out everything works out just fine when people are given clear directions to congregate at the entrance to the cemetery. Doesn't take much to follow signs or phone directions to a clearly-marked cemetery (and most around here are).

HighwayStar

Quote from: Bruce on March 20, 2023, 08:35:44 PM
Two of the most recent funerals I have attended required several vehicles to make an hour-long drive across the Seattle metro area on a normal weekday. It would have been a futile effort to try and keep to the unwritten rules of processions, given that traffic is to be expected and other people on the road are just as important as you and your goings-on, so they're not required to yield their right of way and time.

Turns out everything works out just fine when people are given clear directions to congregate at the entrance to the cemetery. Doesn't take much to follow signs or phone directions to a clearly-marked cemetery (and most around here are).

Yes, but the solemnity and unity of the procession is completely lost having people just show up piecemeal. The purpose of a procession is not to keep people from getting lost, although that might be a side benefit.
"other people on the road are just as important as you", no they are not part of a mourning procession, and thus their importance is less. The only people on the road with any priority over a funeral procession (in peacetime) are emergency vehicles which have lights and sirens for that purpose. Soccer moms on their way to the hair dresser can be delayed a few minutes for the dignity of the departed.
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

kphoger

Quote from: HighwayStar on March 20, 2023, 08:50:56 PM
"other people on the road are just as important as you", no they are not part of a mourning procession, and thus their importance is less.

Unless, of course, those people are also in mourning, on their way to the graveyard, just not doing it in convoy.  I don't see how those people are any less important.

Or an expectant mother going into active labor while her husband races her to the hospital.  I don't see how that couple is any less important.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

webny99

Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 20, 2023, 08:00:43 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 20, 2023, 10:54:10 AM
This is a bit of a tangent, but semi-related, and not worth starting a new thread for... Is it legal to pass an ambulance on active duty with their lights flashing?

The other night, one entered the highway about 1/2 mile front of me. I eventually noticed that it was not getting any closer or further away - it remained about 1/2 mile away. This went on for about 10 miles or so, after which I sped up to about 80 mph and grew a bit closer. By this time, the flashing lights were getting rather annoying and beginning to play tricks on my eyes, so when the highway widened from two lanes to three, I sped up a bit more and eventually got within a few hundred feet.

You had a good question...until you gave a bad example.  You can't question if it's legal to pass someone...driving 15 mph over the speed limit.  Of course it's not.

Rephrase the question. Highway is 65 mph.  Ambulance is in the left lane with lights on and sirens on going 55 mph in the left lane.  You approach in right lane going 65.  Can you pass?

Touchy subject.  Technically, you shouldn't.  You don't know when the ambulance will get over, and you don't want to pass the ambulance while in a blind spot while they start moving over.  But also, the ambulance starts creating a traffic jam as traffic bunches up behind it...which creates other issues, including for other emergency personnel that may get stuck in the ensuing traffic.

That's fair - I know it's technically not legal to pass an ambulance while speeding because you're speeding, but I was just describing the situation I was in. I was thinking of the question independently of the speed you're traveling - that is, is the maneuver of passing an active ambulance itself grounds for getting cited if a cop saw you doing it?

With that said, I don't think I'd hesitate to pass an ambulance if it really was traveling less than the speed limit on a free-flowing highway. But that's also a fictitious scenario that's hard to envision, because ambulances on duty are almost always traveling as fast as safely possible, and if traffic conditions force them to travel at a slower speed, they would be given right of way to weave through traffic, just as they would be on a surface street. So the question really only comes into play on an empty or nearly-empty highway where they have space to maneuver if they need it, and you can pass them without interfering. And even then, they usually use the left lane, so you should technically probably be leaving the right lane(s) open so they can get over or exit if they need to. As such, I don't think I'd do it unless there was at least one open lane between us (as there was in my scenario), but just curious as to the legality of it.


Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 20, 2023, 08:00:43 PM
As for the siren - the siren is usually directed towards traffic ahead of the emergency vehicle.  You didn't hear it behind the vehicle because the siren wasn't directed that way.  It wasn't directed specifically at you.  It was simply out of your hearing range.

That's kind of what I figured, but wasn't 100% sure. It just scared me off a bit at the time since I'd been behind the ambulance for so long without hearing anything.

kphoger

Quote from: webny99 on March 20, 2023, 10:11:01 PM
With that said, I don't think I'd hesitate to pass an ambulance if it really was traveling less than the speed limit on a free-flowing highway. But that's also a fictitious scenario that's hard to envision, because ambulances on duty are almost always traveling as fast as safely possible, and if traffic conditions force them to travel at a slower speed, they would be given right of way to weave through traffic, just as they would be on a surface street.

There have been plenty of times that I was on an Interstate with an ambulance that had its lights flashing but no siren sounding, and it was traveling at around the speed limit or general flow of traffic.  If its siren isn't sounding, then I assume it isn't responding to an emergency.  Maybe it's on its way back or whatever.  I can only recall maybe one time that I actually ended up passing such an ambulance, because I was going maybe 5 to 10 over the limit, and it was traveling at around the limit.  It was in the right lane (or middle of three lanes), lights flashing but no siren sounding.  But I don't think I've ever seen one with its siren sounding that wasn't also going plenty fast.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

HighwayStar

Quote from: kphoger on March 20, 2023, 09:50:50 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on March 20, 2023, 08:50:56 PM
"other people on the road are just as important as you", no they are not part of a mourning procession, and thus their importance is less.

Unless, of course, those people are also in mourning, on their way to the graveyard, just not doing it in convoy.  I don't see how those people are any less important.

Or an expectant mother going into active labor while her husband races her to the hospital.  I don't see how that couple is any less important.

If they are in mourning but not in a procession then they are below the priority of a procession as there is nothing to disrupt for them, while the inverse is not true.

I would expect anyone driving someone in labor, if there was some reason for urgency, to drive as if they had a police escort, namely use of hazard lights and the horn to indicate priority.

But of course, for every woman in labor on the road or other person going to a funeral there are thousands of soccer moms running mundane errands, so this is the edge case of edge cases.
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

kphoger

Quote from: HighwayStar on March 21, 2023, 01:30:06 AM
If they are in mourning but not in a procession then they are below the priority of a procession as there is nothing to disrupt for them, while the inverse is not true.

Yes there is:  their journey to the graveyard.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

kalvado

Quote from: kphoger on March 20, 2023, 11:02:40 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 20, 2023, 10:11:01 PM
With that said, I don't think I'd hesitate to pass an ambulance if it really was traveling less than the speed limit on a free-flowing highway. But that's also a fictitious scenario that's hard to envision, because ambulances on duty are almost always traveling as fast as safely possible, and if traffic conditions force them to travel at a slower speed, they would be given right of way to weave through traffic, just as they would be on a surface street.

There have been plenty of times that I was on an Interstate with an ambulance that had its lights flashing but no siren sounding, and it was traveling at around the speed limit or general flow of traffic.  If its siren isn't sounding, then I assume it isn't responding to an emergency.  Maybe it's on its way back or whatever.  I can only recall maybe one time that I actually ended up passing such an ambulance, because I was going maybe 5 to 10 over the limit, and it was traveling at around the limit.  It was in the right lane (or middle of three lanes), lights flashing but no siren sounding.  But I don't think I've ever seen one with its siren sounding that wasn't also going plenty fast.
My interpretation always was lights = emergency, but no special cooperation required; siren = cooperation requested.
You cannot win a lot of time compared a free flow of traffic on a highway. Going Nascar style isn't going to save a lot, and risk would be significant. Bypassing traffic lights in a city, though, can save a lot.

kphoger

Well, I guess I might as well go ahead and look up the law.  This is from the UVC;  your state may vary.

Quote from: Uniform Vehicle Code, Millennium Edition
Chapter 11 – Rules of the Road

Article IV – Right of Way

§ 11-405 – Operation of vehicles (and streetcars) on approach of authorized emergency vehicles

(a) Upon the immediate approach of an authorized emergency vehicle making use of an audible signal meeting the requirements of $ 12-401(d) and visual signals meeting the requirements of $ 12-214 of this code, or of a police vehicle properly and lawfully making use of an audible signal only:

1. The driver of every other vehicle shall yield the right of way and shall immediately drive to a position parallel to, and as close as possible to, the right-hand edge or curb of the roadway clear of any intersection, and shall stop and remain in such position until the authorized emergency vehicle has passed, except when otherwise directed by a police officer.

Quote from: Uniform Vehicle Code, Millennium Edition
Chapter 12 – Equipment of Vehicles

Article IV – Other Equipment

§ 12-401 – Horns and warning devices

(d) Every authorized emergency vehicle shall be equipped with a siren, whistle, or bell, capable of emitting sound audible under normal conditions from a distance of not less than 500 feet and of a type approved by the department, but the siren shall not be used except when the vehicle is operated in response to an emergency call or in the immediate pursuit of an actual or suspected violator of the law, in which event the driver of the vehicle shall sound the siren when reasonably necessary to warn pedestrians and other drivers of the approach of the vehicle.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

kalvado

#86
Quote from: kphoger on March 21, 2023, 02:12:47 PM
Well, I guess I might as well go ahead and look up the law.  This is from the UVC;  your state may vary.

Quote from: Uniform Vehicle Code, Millennium Edition
Chapter 11 – Rules of the Road

Article IV – Right of Way

§ 11-405 – Operation of vehicles (and streetcars) on approach of authorized emergency vehicles

(a) Upon the immediate approach of an authorized emergency vehicle making use of an audible signal meeting the requirements of $ 12-401(d) and visual signals meeting the requirements of $ 12-214 of this code, or of a police vehicle properly and lawfully making use of an audible signal only:

1. The driver of every other vehicle shall yield the right of way and shall immediately drive to a position parallel to, and as close as possible to, the right-hand edge or curb of the roadway clear of any intersection, and shall stop and remain in such position until the authorized emergency vehicle has passed, except when otherwise directed by a police officer.

Quote from: Uniform Vehicle Code, Millennium Edition
Chapter 12 – Equipment of Vehicles

Article IV – Other Equipment

§ 12-401 – Horns and warning devices

(d) Every authorized emergency vehicle shall be equipped with a siren, whistle, or bell, capable of emitting sound audible under normal conditions from a distance of not less than 500 feet and of a type approved by the department, but the siren shall not be used except when the vehicle is operated in response to an emergency call or in the immediate pursuit of an actual or suspected violator of the law, in which event the driver of the vehicle shall sound the siren when reasonably necessary to warn pedestrians and other drivers of the approach of the vehicle.
No contradictions.  Siren sounding when the vehicle is operated in response to an emergency  doesn't mean no siren = no emergency.  Driver shall sound the siren when reasonably necessary, which may not be the case on free-flowing highway.
My interpretation is that lights do mean something, but do not require full every other vehicle shall yield the right of way level of response.

HighwayStar

Quote from: kalvado on March 21, 2023, 01:45:11 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 20, 2023, 11:02:40 PM
Quote from: webny99 on March 20, 2023, 10:11:01 PM
With that said, I don't think I'd hesitate to pass an ambulance if it really was traveling less than the speed limit on a free-flowing highway. But that's also a fictitious scenario that's hard to envision, because ambulances on duty are almost always traveling as fast as safely possible, and if traffic conditions force them to travel at a slower speed, they would be given right of way to weave through traffic, just as they would be on a surface street.

There have been plenty of times that I was on an Interstate with an ambulance that had its lights flashing but no siren sounding, and it was traveling at around the speed limit or general flow of traffic.  If its siren isn't sounding, then I assume it isn't responding to an emergency.  Maybe it's on its way back or whatever.  I can only recall maybe one time that I actually ended up passing such an ambulance, because I was going maybe 5 to 10 over the limit, and it was traveling at around the limit.  It was in the right lane (or middle of three lanes), lights flashing but no siren sounding.  But I don't think I've ever seen one with its siren sounding that wasn't also going plenty fast.
My interpretation always was lights = emergency, but no special cooperation required; siren = cooperation requested.
You cannot win a lot of time compared a free flow of traffic on a highway. Going Nascar style isn't going to save a lot, and risk would be significant. Bypassing traffic lights in a city, though, can save a lot.

The Germans would disagree with that.
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

Road Hog

An ambulance traveling at posted speed with lights on is probably just transporting a non-emergency patient to another hospital. Its lights are on only for safety purposes.

I've never seen an ambulance in a funeral procession. Seems to defeat the purpose.

HighwayStar

Quote from: Road Hog on March 22, 2023, 02:29:46 AM
An ambulance traveling at posted speed with lights on is probably just transporting a non-emergency patient to another hospital. Its lights are on only for safety purposes.

I've never seen an ambulance in a funeral procession. Seems to defeat the purpose.

What I don't get is a firetruck in silent pursuit, lights but no siren and driving very fast. Now cops sometimes have to sneak up on the bad boys so I get when I see a police car doing that, but what is a fire going to do, extinguish itself before they get to it?
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

Scott5114

Quote from: HighwayStar on March 22, 2023, 08:57:26 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on March 22, 2023, 02:29:46 AM
An ambulance traveling at posted speed with lights on is probably just transporting a non-emergency patient to another hospital. Its lights are on only for safety purposes.

I've never seen an ambulance in a funeral procession. Seems to defeat the purpose.

What I don't get is a firetruck in silent pursuit, lights but no siren and driving very fast. Now cops sometimes have to sneak up on the bad boys so I get when I see a police car doing that, but what is a fire going to do, extinguish itself before they get to it?

Firemen are often trained on basic emergency medical care too. They are also often physically stronger than EMTs, so if there's a situation where someone very large and heavy needs help, or there are obstacles in the way like a locked door, then the fire department's assistance can be essential.

It seems to be standard operating procedure in Norman that whenever someone calls for an ambulance, a fire truck is dispatched too, just in case they're needed.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

HighwayStar

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 22, 2023, 10:26:28 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on March 22, 2023, 08:57:26 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on March 22, 2023, 02:29:46 AM
An ambulance traveling at posted speed with lights on is probably just transporting a non-emergency patient to another hospital. Its lights are on only for safety purposes.

I've never seen an ambulance in a funeral procession. Seems to defeat the purpose.

What I don't get is a firetruck in silent pursuit, lights but no siren and driving very fast. Now cops sometimes have to sneak up on the bad boys so I get when I see a police car doing that, but what is a fire going to do, extinguish itself before they get to it?

Firemen are often trained on basic emergency medical care too. They are also often physically stronger than EMTs, so if there's a situation where someone very large and heavy needs help, or there are obstacles in the way like a locked door, then the fire department's assistance can be essential.

It seems to be standard operating procedure in Norman that whenever someone calls for an ambulance, a fire truck is dispatched too, just in case they're needed.

Yes, all that makes sense. But why the silent pursuit? There is nothing to sneak up on. I can understand an ambulance on a freeway not running the siren the whole time if its just driving with the flow of traffic, but what compels a firetruck to blow through town with no siren?
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

Scott5114

I interpreted "in silent pursuit" to mean following an ambulance with lights but no siren, which would make sense if the ambulance were doing the same thing.

I've never seen a fire truck running solo with lights but no siren. That does seem weird.

It may be a strange quirk in local ordinances (emergency vehicle sirens not being exempt from noise ordinances, maybe?) or the policy book for the fire department. You might call the fire chief and ask about it.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

kalvado

Quote from: HighwayStar on March 22, 2023, 08:57:26 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on March 22, 2023, 02:29:46 AM
An ambulance traveling at posted speed with lights on is probably just transporting a non-emergency patient to another hospital. Its lights are on only for safety purposes.

I've never seen an ambulance in a funeral procession. Seems to defeat the purpose.

What I don't get is a firetruck in silent pursuit, lights but no siren and driving very fast. Now cops sometimes have to sneak up on the bad boys so I get when I see a police car doing that, but what is a fire going to do, extinguish itself before they get to it?
Oh, I thought they were using water and foam to extinguish the fire. Are you sure fire is so afraid of noise?

hbelkins

This made news in my area, but it actually happened out in Scott's neck of the woods.

https://www.wsaz.com/2023/03/21/police-officer-dies-after-funeral-procession-head-on-crash/

As to fire engines responding to EMT calls, some of you all never watched "Emergency."


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

jeffandnicole

I'm not going to pretend to be a national expert on when emergency personnel should be using sirens.  But at the same time, I'm not sure if people are brought up with the belief that police, emts and fire trucks always use sirens, or if that's what they see on TV and in movies, but quite often the case, sirens are used sparingly.  Even lights aren't used when not fully necessary.

For starters...if you've been pulled over...were sirens used?  I've been stopped more than I probably should care to admit, but I don't think I've ever been pulled over with sirens.  Just lights.

My mother-in-law who lives with us has been taken to the hospital way more times than I wished she has over the past year.  Often the ambulance and emts will come with lights flashing, but once they pull up they turn the lights off.  Occasionly they leave them on. (Honestly, I wished they turn them off...we're on a small side street with few cars passing by).  When they leave, they rarely turn the lights on, especially in the development.  They never turn the sirens on.  On the main roads, maybe they turn lights on, depending on the driver or her condition.  We took her on a few trips last year including one trip where she fell ill during the return trip.  We stopped at a rest area where an ambulance met her.  Prior to them taking her, they told us they won't be using the flashing lights on the interstate.

We live about 2 blocks from a fire station. They always use lights, but rarely do they use sirens.  Maybe when they first leave the station, but that's it.  One late night they blasted the sirens about 3am for some ungodly reason as they left, which in itself made that memorable since they never use them, especially at that time of night (and I'll bet they got reprimanded for it).  They may use sirens approaching major intersections to warn traffic, but not while driving down the road.

Police - same thing. They'll just drive fast, use lights, or drive fast and use lights.  When approaching intersections, especially when they have the red, they'll then turn on the siren, slow down and probably stop (they're supposed to in my state), then quickly go thru and turn off the siren.

During my commutes on the interstate, I'll say it's about 50/50 if the State Troopers are using sirens along with their lights.  If they're responding to a lane-blocking crash, they're probably using their sirens.  If they're going to a more minor incident or pulling someone over, they're just using lights.

In the city where I work, they're generally using lights but using their sirens or their beepbeepbeebeebeebeep thingy approaching intersections (which, being a city, is quite often).   

So, overall, especially in suburban and rural areas, sirens aren't really a thing to be used, unless they're needed to urgently warn others.  Which means, if you do encounter an emergency vehicle with lights flashing, just get out of the way.  They're still responding to an incident much of the time.  It's gonna cost you a whole 5 seconds of your trip to move over.  And some day, you're going to be the one needing that assistance and will be glad others extend that courtesy for them, for you.

Road Hog

I work a half-mile from a fire station and they run hot 24-7. They send out an engine along with every EMS call. Never understood that, but lots of other municipal FDs do the same.

kphoger

Quote from: jeffandnicole on March 23, 2023, 10:59:15 PM
For starters...if you've been pulled over...were sirens used?  I've been stopped more than I probably should care to admit, but I don't think I've ever been pulled over with sirens.  Just lights.

Or, if the driver doesn't seem to have noticed the lights, the officer might just flip the siren on for a split-second 'BLOOP!' and then turn it off again.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

1995hoo

Regarding police using the siren (or not) when pulling people over, I've observed that sometimes they'll give a quick whoop of the siren if the targeted driver may seem to be unsure he's the target, such as on a busy road like the Beltway where people just try to get out of the cop's way.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

RM42

Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2023, 10:40:49 AM
Quote from: Rothman on March 17, 2023, 10:17:47 AM

Quote from: kphoger on March 17, 2023, 10:10:41 AM

Quote from: 7/8 on March 17, 2023, 09:59:57 AM
In the age of Google Maps, the idea seems outdated. Is it not possible to meet near the entrance of the graveyard and guide people from there?

You seem to think everybody drives around with a sat-nav device.

Well, a cell phone, anyway...

And a dashboard mount?  You realize, right, that using your phone for GPS directions falls under the category of cell phone use while driving in some jurisdictions?

Besides which, this is all pretending that everyone has a smartphone, which they don't.  I don't.  And also that the 84-year-old cousin of the deceased is tech-savvy enough to use Google Maps for directions on the iPhone that her son got for her against her will three weeks ago, and capable of doing so while navigating unfamiliar traffic in the rental car she picked up at the airport.

Here is one 19-mile route I've done as part of a funeral procession.  This was approximately 700 miles from my hometown of Wichita.  I'd been to the town of Buffalo before, but I didn't know what county roads in the area were paved, I'd never been through Maple Lake at all, and I had never approached that side of Buffalo from the west before.  There were quite a few people in attendance with even less knowledge of the area than I had, having come into town for the funeral from places like Montana and Missouri and the Twin Cities.  The roads were snowy and slushy that day.  It was such a relief to just be able to follow the car in front of us, especially pulling out onto MN-55 and going through the stoplights in town.

What was the logic of this route over the much more simple County Road 35 (to the South)?



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