Speed limit tolerances

[Scott5114]

See, Oklahoma used to use WATCH FOR ICE ON BRIDGE signs (with ICE in bigger letters) that folded up into a blue triangle reading "KEEP OKLAHOMA BEAUTIFUL" during the summer months. These were later replaced with the "Oklahoma: Keep Our Land Grand" anti-trash logo in the mid 90s. By the late 2000s these were done away with, and now there are plain yellow diamond signs reading "BRIDGE ICES BEFORE ROAD" which is left there all year.

[J N Winkler]

I've often wondered how the FAA looks at the speed patrol flights.  I cannot imagine they're very happy with them as they want flight plans from everyone who flys any non-military aircraft in the US.

I was under the impression that flight plans are not generally required for planes flying under visual flight rules and thus not in controlled airspace.

[Duke87]

The I-95 limit is 65 pretty much close to the middle of Westchester County, before its toned down to 55

Wait, what? There's no 65 zone on I-95 in New York. You have to go past New Haven before you find one heading north.

Sprain Brook's 50, and I think the Taconic is 55 all the way. The Hutch I'm pretty sure is 55.

Pretty sure the Sprain is 55. Which is annoying; the Sprain/Taconic could proabably be 60 or 65 most of the way from Tuckahoe Rd up to the Putnam County line. It's a wide open modern road - sufficient shoulders, no sharp curves, none of those glorified right turn exits, not particularly urban...
Though, I wouldn't be surprised if it's against the law or at least against some policy to post a parkway at higher than 55.

The Hutch is 55 north of about exit 17 or so. South of there it's 50.

Cross County Pkwy is posted 45mph.

Only west of route 22. The east end is 50.

The 45 really makes no sense. Coincidentally, the county police love to hang out along there. I wonder why?

[deathtopumpkins]

Pretty sure the Sprain is 55.

Sorry, mixed it up with the Saw Mill River Pkwy. I remember it being 50 when I drove it between the Taconic and I-287 back in August, but forgot which road it was apparently.

[agentsteel53]

Welcome to California: speed limits now actually enforced.

Jake, I'd have put that one in Texas given my experience. Welcome to California: Se Habla Espanol.

Texas has always enforced their limits.  on the rural sections of I-10 and I-20 with ever-increasing speed limit signage, I know that when the speed limit was 75, about 84mph was what they enforced.  When they raised it to 80, the tolerance dropped and, again, it was 84 that they pulled you over for.

now that they are raising the speed limit to 85 ... I'd still worry about doing more than 84!

California was, in my experience, completely devoid of speed enforcement activity on its rural highways until recently.  I used to be able to do a Sacramento-San Diego run (510 miles) in 5h 40 min, averaging 91-92mph... and that included moving 0mph for several minutes as I got gas twice!  Usually I had cruise control on 98 or 99 and never thought twice about it.

Nowadays it just isn't possible anymore, as the state is broke and looking towards revenue from any source possible.  I would estimate that between January and now, the presence of cops doing speed limit enforcement has gone up by literally a factor of 50.

nowadays I'm doing 81 in an 80 in west Texas... and in California, 73 in a 65 or 77 in a 70.  I've talked my way out of 24 straight speeding tickets dating back to 2006; I do not intend for that streak to end!

[Adding quote for continuity purposes. -S.]

[agentsteel53]

In California, I raced with impunity along old 66, easily going 80 in 55 zones.

heh.  last time I was there, I managed to take the rental car up to 126 before having to slow down for a dip.  Usually, though, I set my cruise control for 66mph on that road.  It seems appropriate.

In Texas I got yoinked for 73 in a 70 on US 380 in the middle of nowhere.

Texas: the most honest speed limits in the nation.  they have the highest postings, and the strictest enforcements.  I'd actually wish that all states did it that way.  I'm happy to do 75 in a 75 on a West Texas two-laner, or even 71 in a 75 when the road conditions are not quite up to snuff (and at night I find myself doing 53-60 when the limit is posted as 65, because I know that deer and cows have not yet been made retroreflective).

I just read somewhere a few weeks ago that Maryland's official tolerance is 12mph (so, 77 in a 65 before they start looking for you).  If you're going to enforce 77, then sign 77!  There should be at most 1-2 mph tolerance for a faulty speedometer; otherwise, to sign one thing and enforce another, keeping the population guessing, is the definition of lack of government accountability.

I remember growing up in Massachusetts in the era of the NMSL, and my dad was driving 72 in a 55 constantly, saying "it's 75 that they enforce".  Indeed, the entire speed of traffic was around 70-73, even when driving past a cop; no one bothered to slow down.

but now that we've moved past federal speed limit guidelines ... can we be a bit more practical about it??

[agentsteel53]

to add further to the hypocrisy of speed limits (and please make this a separate thread, or combine it with a thread that mentions speed limits) - the state of Montana, which recognized the problem quite well for years.

before the NMSL of 1973, Montana had no speed limit on rural roads.  If you were going clearly far too fast, they pulled you over for reckless driving.  The rule was, generally, "try to keep it under 100".

in 1973, the speed limit became 55, enforceable by penalty.  However, if Montana police pulled you over for anything between 55 and about 95 or so (which wasn't likely to be their target of attention in the first place) they issued you a $5 ticket, for "wasting natural resources" - which was payable, in cash, on the spot.  Indeed, the rule was "try to keep it under 100".

in 1996 when the NMSL was banned, Montana adopted a policy of Reasonable and Prudent on its rural roads.  It basically amounted to - you guessed it - "try to keep it under 100".

at one point, the ruling was challenged.  It seems that someone, on a clear day, straight road, no traffic ... I-94 between Forsyth and Miles City, someone in a Camaro was pulled over for doing 134.  The driver argued that he was, indeed, being reasonable and prudent, given the absence of traffic and the exemplary engineering of the four-lane interstate highway in front of him.  He took the case to court.  And it went high enough up that the "reasonable and prudent" law was thrown out by the Montana Supreme Court.  So, for a few blissful months before they could enact new legislation, there was no speed limit at all.  There surely were provisions for reckless driving, but, as written, the law wasn't even "try to keep it under 100".

In the middle of 1999 (gotta love legislative inertia ... I remember the Reasonable and Prudent signs existing in August, 1998), Montana enacted a fixed speed limit, being the fiftieth of fifty states to do so.  It was 75 then, and remains 75 now.  Its enforcement, however, remained somewhat spotty.  Basically, word spread that the state police and the county sheriffs would tolerate a lot of leeway, because they have better things to do.  Posted 75, but in reality - given that I've driven past police doing 92 in a posted 75 in Montana - the real rule is somewhat more lenient...

Montana's standard since the 1950s ... say it with me, folks!

try to keep it under 100!!!!

[1995hoo]

With that policy, if you keep the needle on the speed limit, you probably don't even have to slow down in work zones!  They could simply set up a zero-tolerance policy for speeding (ticket for even 2 over the limit) and accomplish the same goal.

Except you cannot do that, because speedometers probably have a normal margin of error of at least ±2 mph.

Tell that to the government of Victoria. The speed cameras there will ticket you for going 3 km/h over the limit, even though Australian federal law allows an official tolerance for speedometer error of 10%. In a 100 km/h zone, that means Victoria allows you less than 3% tolerance.

[agentsteel53]

in many dozens of rental cars, where I have compared my speedometer to my GPS, the largest margin of error I've ever seen is 2 mph.

and it seems that about 90% of vehicles I've rented overestimate their speed.  so, for example, when it says 80mph, I am really doing only 78.

I've had only one or two that were underestimators.  And that, again, by only about 1 or 2 mph. 

[elsmere241]

Do they still have the NO TOLERANCE auxiliary signs in Oklahoma below the speed limit signs?  When I worked there in '85, they were all over the place.

I remember seeing one in 1980, below a sign where "55" had been painted over "70".

[newyorker478]

The I-95 limit is 65 pretty much close to the middle of Westchester County, before its toned down to 55

Wait, what? There's no 65 zone on I-95 in New York. You have to go past New Haven before you find one heading north.

Sprain Brook's 50, and I think the Taconic is 55 all the way. The Hutch I'm pretty sure is 55.

Pretty sure the Sprain is 55. Which is annoying; the Sprain/Taconic could proabably be 60 or 65 most of the way from Tuckahoe Rd up to the Putnam County line. It's a wide open modern road - sufficient shoulders, no sharp curves, none of those glorified right turn exits, not particularly urban...
Though, I wouldn't be surprised if it's against the law or at least against some policy to post a parkway at higher than 55.

The Hutch is 55 north of about exit 17 or so. South of there it's 50.

Cross County Pkwy is posted 45mph.

Only west of route 22. The east end is 50.

The 45 really makes no sense. Coincidentally, the county police love to hang out along there. I wonder why?

Yeah, New Yorkers know how to break the speed limit like nobody's buisness. Personal favorites are 85 on Saw Mill in N. Yonkers [around Executive/Farragut Blvds, with Stoplights] or 100mph on 684.