New Jersey Turnpike

[Beltway]

Try calculating how far that vehicle will travel in the 70 foot median if it enters at a 10 degree angle and the driver makes an effort to mitigate that.  I will work up some calculations, but that would probably be 600 feet or more.

Assuming it enters at that angle. What if a vehicle quickly swerves to the left to avoid an object, and loses control coming in at a 45 degree or more angle? How about on a curve? Lots of possibilities.

A vehicle at 70 mph is not going to enter the median at a "45 degree or more angle."  Simple physics and kinematics.

What if some guy tries to commit autocide?  What if ... what if ...

Please. I've provided plenty of proof, and you dismiss it because it's "advocacy".

You have not provided any proof.

I suppose the countless amount of times median guardrail has saved lives and prevented head-on collisions is only "emotional" and has no place being implemented.

That is an emotional statement that is crafted to sell guardrail.

[sprjus4]

What if some guy tries to commit autocide?  What if ... what if ...

Cable guardrail would prevent that, and at most only impact himself as opposed to killing somebody in the opposite lane of traffic.

You have not provided any proof.

That is an emotional statement that is crafted to sell guardrail.

Based on actual facts which are only "advocacy".

[Beltway]

What if some guy tries to commit autocide?  What if ... what if ...

Cable guardrail would prevent that, and at most only impact himself as opposed to killing somebody in the opposite lane of traffic.

I can't believe that you wrote that.

He looks for a median crossover and uses that to get to the other roadway.

[Beltway]

A cross median accident even on the northern NJTP doesn't automatically mean that any other vehicle gets hit.  This tandem truck wreck tore itself up and some guardrail but nothing else, and there were lots of vehicles nearby.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os5mjB8DYeQ

A concrete median barrier might have prevented crossover, but a HTCB (High Tension Cable Barrier) would have suffered the same fate as that double-faced W-beam guardrail.

[Roadrunner75]

https://www.njta.com/media/5179/proposed-2020-capital-improvement-program.pdf

Wow...that's a lot to digest there.  Lots of good projects if they every actually come to fruition.  I'm especially interested in how they plan to handle 29/30 on the GSP at Somers Point.  They spent a lot of money sprucing up the "gateway" to Ocean City that is 52 between the old Somers Point circle at 559 and Route 9 to now have to also potentially upgrade the 9/559 corridor to the same spot.  Lots of wetlands headaches for many of the interchange projects on the southern GSP too...

[Beltway]

https://www.njta.com/media/5179/proposed-2020-capital-improvement-program.pdf

Wow...that's a lot to digest there.  Lots of good projects if they every actually come to fruition.  I'm especially interested in how they plan to handle 29/30 on the GSP at Somers Point.  They spent a lot of money sprucing up the "gateway" to Ocean City that is 52 between the old Somers Point circle at 559 and Route 9 to now have to also potentially upgrade the 9/559 corridor to the same spot.  Lots of wetlands headaches for many of the interchange projects on the southern GSP too...

Yes, a great list but what is the schedule for getting them built?

All projects except one (HYBRID CHANGEABLE MESSAGE SIGNS) have STATUS -- To be programmed.  That means unscheduled.

[jeffandnicole]

https://www.njta.com/media/5179/proposed-2020-capital-improvement-program.pdf

Wow...that's a lot to digest there.  Lots of good projects if they every actually come to fruition.  I'm especially interested in how they plan to handle 29/30 on the GSP at Somers Point.  They spent a lot of money sprucing up the "gateway" to Ocean City that is 52 between the old Somers Point circle at 559 and Route 9 to now have to also potentially upgrade the 9/559 corridor to the same spot.  Lots of wetlands headaches for many of the interchange projects on the southern GSP too...

Yes, a great list but what is the schedule for getting them built?

All projects except one (HYBRID CHANGEABLE MESSAGE SIGNS) have STATUS -- To be programmed.  That means unscheduled.

This has been noted as a NTJA wishlist, and some people suggested some of these projects may never occur, at least from this particular toll increase. Until the public meetings were held and the toll increased were approved, they couldn't schedule or prioritize much. And with the current unexpected change in our day to day lives, that will impact toll revenue for a while to come. If there's a permanent change in how people commute or work from home, some projects may eventually be dropped.

The good thing is without specifying any dates, it will also keep down the gripping years from now from those that will claim the projects were delayed!

[bluecountry]

I just think the highest priorities should be:

-Widening Newark Ext and WB spur to 6 lanes
-Changeovers between the inner and outer lanes
-High volume exit/interchanges and aux ramps
-8lanes from 4 to 6
-6 lanes from 3 to 4
THEN THEN
-6 lanes 1-3

[jeffandnicole]

I just think the highest priorities should be:

-Widening Newark Ext and WB spur to 6 lanes
-Changeovers between the inner and outer lanes
-High volume exit/interchanges and aux ramps
-8lanes from 4 to 6
-6 lanes from 3 to 4
THEN THEN
-6 lanes 1-3

Dude. There are 42 projects proposed. Stop focusing on 6 Turnpike projects, 2 of which aren't even proposed.  There are even higher priced GSP projects you haven't touched on.

[Beltway]

This has been noted as a NTJA wishlist, and some people suggested some of these projects may never occur, at least from this particular toll increase. Until the public meetings were held and the toll increased were approved, they couldn't schedule or prioritize much. And with the current unexpected change in our day to day lives, that will impact toll revenue for a while to come. If there's a permanent change in how people commute or work from home, some projects may eventually be dropped.
The good thing is without specifying any dates, it will also keep down the gripping years from now from those that will claim the projects were delayed!

So it is basically a long-range unconstrained plan.

It was released in March 2020, presumably before the Bug Crisis came to everybody's attention.

It is nice to see a project list like that, but it would seem appropriate to list a construction year for at least what they see as the highest priorities.

[jemacedo9]

This has been noted as a NTJA wishlist, and some people suggested some of these projects may never occur, at least from this particular toll increase. Until the public meetings were held and the toll increased were approved, they couldn't schedule or prioritize much. And with the current unexpected change in our day to day lives, that will impact toll revenue for a while to come. If there's a permanent change in how people commute or work from home, some projects may eventually be dropped.
The good thing is without specifying any dates, it will also keep down the gripping years from now from those that will claim the projects were delayed!

So it is basically a long-range unconstrained plan.

It was released in March 2020, presumably before the Bug Crisis came to everybody's attention.

It is nice to see a project list like that, but it would seem appropriate to list a construction year for at least what they see as the highest priorities.

They released the list as a "wish list" to justify the proposed toll hikes...

[theroadwayone]

Getting off-topic, but I was GMSV'ing the Pearl Harbor Extension and happened across this.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1099071,-74.8066833,3a,75y,126.47h,89.15t,3.17r/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAF1QipMRaB1WdAfohcP6_nkUO8Dwtzv8TzhpWNYIFWs7!2e10!7i2508!8i1254?hl=en

[Alps]

This has been noted as a NTJA wishlist, and some people suggested some of these projects may never occur, at least from this particular toll increase. Until the public meetings were held and the toll increased were approved, they couldn't schedule or prioritize much. And with the current unexpected change in our day to day lives, that will impact toll revenue for a while to come. If there's a permanent change in how people commute or work from home, some projects may eventually be dropped.
The good thing is without specifying any dates, it will also keep down the gripping years from now from those that will claim the projects were delayed!

So it is basically a long-range unconstrained plan.

It was released in March 2020, presumably before the Bug Crisis came to everybody's attention.

It is nice to see a project list like that, but it would seem appropriate to list a construction year for at least what they see as the highest priorities.

They released the list as a "wish list" to justify the proposed toll hikes...

Sort-of exactly. They are justifying that they have far more projects with short- to medium-term needs (in the next 20-30 years, let's say) than can be funded even with a toll hike, so the more they can get, the better off they'll be going forward. Some of these projects need to enter study or design phases now so that they can be constructed by the time they're needed - why wait until there's congestion?

[jeffandnicole]

Getting off-topic, but I was GMSV'ing the Pearl Harbor Extension and happened across this.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1099071,-74.8066833,3a,75y,126.47h,89.15t,3.17r/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAF1QipMRaB1WdAfohcP6_nkUO8Dwtzv8TzhpWNYIFWs7!2e10!7i2508!8i1254?hl=en

Getting off-topic, but I was GMSV'ing the Pearl Harbor Extension and happened across this.
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1099071,-74.8066833,3a,75y,126.47h,89.15t,3.17r/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAF1QipMRaB1WdAfohcP6_nkUO8Dwtzv8TzhpWNYIFWs7!2e10!7i2508!8i1254?hl=en

Correct. No credit cards.

Of course, no cash now either.

[Beltway]

They are justifying that they have far more projects with short- to medium-term needs (in the next 20-30 years, let's say) than can be funded even with a toll hike, so the more they can get, the better off they'll be going forward. Some of these projects need to enter study or design phases now so that they can be constructed by the time they're needed - why wait until there's congestion?

I just added up the costs of the projects in the 2020 CIP -- $24.1 billion.

It would be helpful if they could at least include a 6-year TIP with projects programmed for P. E., R/W and Construction.  If need be, select 3 or 4 levels of toll increases with a TIP for each.

By default/omission they are saying that the only project programmed is the $80 million Hybrid VMS project.

[jeffandnicole]

They are justifying that they have far more projects with short- to medium-term needs (in the next 20-30 years, let's say) than can be funded even with a toll hike, so the more they can get, the better off they'll be going forward. Some of these projects need to enter study or design phases now so that they can be constructed by the time they're needed - why wait until there's congestion?

I just added up the costs of the projects in the 2020 CIP -- $24.1 billion.

It would be helpful if they could at least include a 6-year TIP with projects programmed for P. E., R/W and Construction.  If need be, select 3 or 4 levels of toll increases with a TIP for each.

By default/omission they are saying that the only project programmed is the $80 million Hybrid VMS project.

The point of the public meetings were to comment on the proposed toll increased and the proposed projects. You're thinking way too much into what the purpose of the meetings were for.

[Beltway]

I just added up the costs of the projects in the 2020 CIP -- $24.1 billion.
It would be helpful if they could at least include a 6-year TIP with projects programmed for P. E., R/W and Construction.  If need be, select 3 or 4 levels of toll increases with a TIP for each.

The point of the public meetings were to comment on the proposed toll increased and the proposed projects. You're thinking way too much into what the purpose of the meetings were for.

Maybe I'm ignorant, but if I was a resident of the state, I would want to see detailed scenarios for what would happen for several different levels of toll increases.

[jeffandnicole]

I just added up the costs of the projects in the 2020 CIP -- $24.1 billion.
It would be helpful if they could at least include a 6-year TIP with projects programmed for P. E., R/W and Construction.  If need be, select 3 or 4 levels of toll increases with a TIP for each.

The point of the public meetings were to comment on the proposed toll increased and the proposed projects. You're thinking way too much into what the purpose of the meetings were for.

Maybe I'm ignorant, but if I was a resident of the state, I would want to see detailed scenarios for what would happen for several different levels of toll increases.

Most people want fewer tolls and better roads.

Also, the law doesnt require options. The law states they need to have public meetings regarding a toll increase.

If they had options, it will only piss more people off. Let's say there were 3 options, and the 3 were voted on equally. The Turnpike Authority can only choose 1 option. They now pissed off 67% of the people that voted because their option wasn't chosen.

The general public has no idea what a TIP is, how projects advance thru various stages and when they'll start, how much money they cost, and why they're so expensive because they can do it for cheaper. When public meetings are held for specific projects, very few people show up, and they want to know two things: Will their property be taken, and why will it take so long.

So while you and I would like to see detail,  the vast majority of the state isn't even aware of a possible toll increase, much less various options.

Has your state ever had public meetings with as much detail as you claim the NJTA should be providing? Have the citizens of your state ever demanded much more detail than what was being provided?

[Beltway]

Has your state ever had public meetings with as much detail as you claim the NJTA should be providing? Have the citizens of your state ever demanded much more detail than what was being provided?

I'm not demanding that they do anything.  As someone who occasionally uses the highway, and someone who saw the CIP that was posted here, it would be interesting to know some kind of timetable for when some of those projects might be built.

[bluecountry]

I just think the highest priorities should be:

-Widening Newark Ext and WB spur to 6 lanes
-Changeovers between the inner and outer lanes
-High volume exit/interchanges and aux ramps
-8lanes from 4 to 6
-6 lanes from 3 to 4
THEN THEN
-6 lanes 1-3

Dude. There are 42 projects proposed. Stop focusing on 6 Turnpike projects, 2 of which aren't even proposed.  There are even higher priced GSP projects you haven't touched on.

I'm focused on just the NJTP and don't you think my listed projects are bigger priorities over expanding to 6 lanes exits 1 to 4?

[Beltway]

I'm focused on just the NJTP and don't you think my listed projects are bigger priorities over expanding to 6 lanes exits 1 to 4?

Any of the widening projects would be great to see.

[sprjus4]

I just think the highest priorities should be:

-Widening Newark Ext and WB spur to 6 lanes
-Changeovers between the inner and outer lanes
-High volume exit/interchanges and aux ramps
-8lanes from 4 to 6
-6 lanes from 3 to 4
THEN THEN
-6 lanes 1-3

Dude. There are 42 projects proposed. Stop focusing on 6 Turnpike projects, 2 of which aren't even proposed.  There are even higher priced GSP projects you haven't touched on.

I'm focused on just the NJTP and don't you think my listed projects are bigger priorities over expanding to 6 lanes exits 1 to 4?

Crossovers, "high volume interchanges" , and 8 lanes between Exits 4-6 are lower priorities than widening to 6 lanes from Exit 1 - 4, not to mention not even projects on the list except the crossovers.

[jeffandnicole]

I just think the highest priorities should be:

-Widening Newark Ext and WB spur to 6 lanes
-Changeovers between the inner and outer lanes
-High volume exit/interchanges and aux ramps
-8lanes from 4 to 6
-6 lanes from 3 to 4
THEN THEN
-6 lanes 1-3

Dude. There are 42 projects proposed. Stop focusing on 6 Turnpike projects, 2 of which aren't even proposed.  There are even higher priced GSP projects you haven't touched on.

I'm focused on just the NJTP and don't you think my listed projects are bigger priorities over expanding to 6 lanes exits 1 to 4?

You're just focused on *specific* projects on the NJ Tpk, and we've already told you that we feel the 1-4 widening should be a bigger priority than other projects.

[Beltway]

I'm focused on just the NJTP and don't you think my listed projects are bigger priorities over expanding to 6 lanes exits 1 to 4?

You're just focused on *specific* projects on the NJ Tpk, and we've already told you that we feel the 1-4 widening should be a bigger priority than other projects.

Per the 2020 CIP, those projects total $1.1 billion. 

Given that the whole CIP totals $24.1 billion, those widening projects would seem worthy of high priority.

[sprjus4]

I'm focused on just the NJTP and don't you think my listed projects are bigger priorities over expanding to 6 lanes exits 1 to 4?

You're just focused on *specific* projects on the NJ Tpk, and we've already told you that we feel the 1-4 widening should be a bigger priority than other projects.

Per the 2020 CIP, those projects total $1.1 billion. 

Given that the whole CIP totals $24.1 billion, those widening projects would seem worthy of high priority.

Agreed, and given that traffic volumes will only rise in years forthcoming, it will certainly be a pressing need in a decade if not completed already, again, notably during peak travel periods.