New Jersey Turnpike

[Alps]

I always thought the NBJTP/GSP interchange should have for GSP North 'Paterson' then after Paterson, Mahway.
SB, it should list Shore Points.

As for the NJTP, SB after Newark ALL signs need to say Philadelphia.  The Trenton sign always has bothered me since it is so small and not even off the TP.

You know Trenton is the state capital, right? Kind of important. And Philadelphia is farther off the Turnpike than Trenton.

[Dough4872]

I always thought the NBJTP/GSP interchange should have for GSP North 'Paterson' then after Paterson, Mahway.
SB, it should list Shore Points.

As for the NJTP, SB after Newark ALL signs need to say Philadelphia.  The Trenton sign always has bothered me since it is so small and not even off the TP.

You know Trenton is the state capital, right? Kind of important. And Philadelphia is farther off the Turnpike than Trenton.

The reasoning for Philadelphia is not because the NJTP goes there, but because I-95 goes there since the interchange with the PA TPK was completed in 2018. The control cities along I-95 northbound heading away from Philadelphia were changed from Trenton to New York when the interchange opened in 2018.

[famartin]

I always thought the NBJTP/GSP interchange should have for GSP North 'Paterson' then after Paterson, Mahway.
SB, it should list Shore Points.

As for the NJTP, SB after Newark ALL signs need to say Philadelphia.  The Trenton sign always has bothered me since it is so small and not even off the TP.

You know Trenton is the state capital, right? Kind of important. And Philadelphia is farther off the Turnpike than Trenton.

Yeah, but a lot of people heading for Trenton are likely to hop on US,1 at Exit 9... that's unlikely if you are heading for Philly metro. And let's face it, the primary use of the turnpike between the two cities is connecting those two cities. Trenton should be as much as an afterthought as Newark.

[roadman65]

The Garden State Parkway uses “ Philadelphia “ for the SB I-95/ NJT exit.  It don’t use it post ramp toll plaza where Trenton still is present at split.

[famartin]

An example of stupid signing... at Exit 8, Exit 8A, and Exit 9, it's signed southbound for Trenton, but how many people would really get in at those exits in order to get to Trenton? Especially at Exit 8A?

[roadman65]

An example of stupid signing... at Exit 8, Exit 8A, and Exit 9, it's signed southbound for Trenton, but how many people would really get in at those exits in order to get to Trenton? Especially at Exit 8A?

It's not only there. Enola, PA has I-81 NB ramp from US 11-15 signed for Harrisburg instead of Hazleton as well. Who at that point will hop on I-81 to get to Harrisburg when US 11-15 almost go there themselves.

It's not only the NJ Turnpike.

[sprjus4]

An example of stupid signing... at Exit 8, Exit 8A, and Exit 9, it's signed southbound for Trenton, but how many people would really get in at those exits in order to get to Trenton? Especially at Exit 8A?

Google Maps recommends I-95 (New Jersey Turnpike) South to I-195 West. Makes sense to me, although I do agree Philadelphia is a better control city.

[jeffandnicole]

I always thought the NBJTP/GSP interchange should have for GSP North 'Paterson' then after Paterson, Mahway.
SB, it should list Shore Points.

As for the NJTP, SB after Newark ALL signs need to say Philadelphia.  The Trenton sign always has bothered me since it is so small and not even off the TP.

You know Trenton is the state capital, right? Kind of important. And Philadelphia is farther off the Turnpike than Trenton.

Yeah, but a lot of people heading for Trenton are likely to hop on US,1 at Exit 9... that's unlikely if you are heading for Philly metro. And let's face it, the primary use of the turnpike between the two cities is connecting those two cities. Trenton should be as much as an afterthought as Newark.

It seems very unlikely motorists would jump off the Turnpike at Interchange 9 to slog thru numerous traffic lights on US 1 to get to Trenton.  While the time estimates are about the same in normal traffic, and the distance to Trenton via US 1 is shorter, most people are going to take the freeway options vs the local road options, even when tolls are involved. 

Heck, we witness this all the time in NJ when given the option of taking the NJ Turnpike vs. 295.  In theory, there wouldn't be a single motorist on the Turnpike between 195 and the Delaware Memorial Bridge when 295 doesn't have congestion.

An example of stupid signing... at Exit 8, Exit 8A, and Exit 9, it's signed southbound for Trenton, but how many people would really get in at those exits in order to get to Trenton? Especially at Exit 8A?

Thus, the imperfect world of signing control cities.  In most states, cities would be spread so far apart there would be no question what a control city should be, and it would be left to random headscratchers such as I-80 throughout PA and some town in Colorado.  In NJ, it's a bit different - we have so many options, and many of the larger options don't reside in the state.  Trenton may not be the most sensible, but it makes a little sense to give the state capital some sort of nod. 

After all, traffic counts will show most people aren't taking Exit 6 to Philly either.  Harrisburg almost makes just as much sense.

[roadman65]

Trenton is one that is close enough to be warranted , as well as Wilmington, DE. Though the latter many whine on here about and arguing that Baltimore should be instead, it’s also connected by another freeway just as Trenton is.

At one time I-195 wasn’t there and there were no freeways from the Turnpike to the State Capital. Previously Exit 8 was signed for Trenton SB and signs from North Jersey downward reflected it then also. And NJ 33 west from Exit 8 wasn’t ( and still isn’t) a freeway, which was the route into Trenton from that exchange when signed as NJ 33 Hightstown Trenton back then.

[odditude]

An example of stupid signing... at Exit 8, Exit 8A, and Exit 9, it's signed southbound for Trenton, but how many people would really get in at those exits in order to get to Trenton? Especially at Exit 8A?

when I lived in Ewing near TTN, the only time I'd take Route 1 to head to the Turnpike NB (or vice-versa) would be after 9PM. otherwise, traffic + lights would make the trip longer than if I took 579/29/195/Turnpike. the extra time and aggravation were a much higher cost to me than the toll.

[roadman65]

In other parts we have Princeton as a control for nearby I-295 that that freeway don't enter at all. One can argue the NJTA case similar to that of NJDOT and PennDOT.

[famartin]

Alright, one final swing at this and then I'm done for the moment...

Pretend states don't exist. Pretend highways were signed from scratch today. Would anyone seriously sign Trenton as the southbound control on 95?  Of course not. They'd sign Philly. Wilmington would disappear too. The I-95 controls would be DC, Baltimore, Philly and NYC in this stretch, since they are by far the most important locations. All others are insignificant by comparison, and not worthy of being signed. If this whole area was, say, within the state of Texas, this is how it would be.

Signing only NYC in one direction, and then much smaller and more insignificant locations in the other direction WHEN THERE ARE MORE IMPORTANT PLACES, is purely indicative of a NYC-centric mindset, which I suppose isn't surprising in NJ (which is NYC-centric on average), but still ridic in the grand scheme.

OK, I'll shut for the time being on this...

-signed, someone who grew up in Ewing and resides there once again, but realizes this area isn't really important

[famartin]

In other parts we have Princeton as a control for nearby I-295 that that freeway don't enter at all. One can argue the NJTA case similar to that of NJDOT and PennDOT.

Princeton is only used north of Trenton, where there really is no other good option.

[roadman65]

In other parts we have Princeton as a control for nearby I-295 that that freeway don't enter at all. One can argue the NJTA case similar to that of NJDOT and PennDOT.

Princeton is only used north of Trenton, where there really is no other good option.

I don't have a problem with Princeton or Trenton for that matter.

Oregon and Florida have the issue of using one control one way of a large city and smaller ones the other way. I-5 uses Portland NB

In other parts we have Princeton as a control for nearby I-295 that that freeway don't enter at all. One can argue the NJTA case similar to that of NJDOT and PennDOT.

Princeton is only used north of Trenton, where there really is no other good option.

I have no problem with Princeton or Trenton.

Oregon and Florida sign one city one way and smaller ones the other way.  I-5 in Oregon uses Portland NB through out the state, but uses Salem, Eugene, Rosenberg, and Medford SB  throughout the state.

I-75 SB from the Georgia State Line to Tampa uses Tampa while from Tampa to Georgia the other way uses Ocala, Lake City, and Valdosta. 

It's not a Turnpike thing or people fixating on New York City.

[bzakharin]

It's reasonable to sign smaller destinations when heading away from a major city, but not when heading toward it. The problem in this area is that there are a lot of major cities within a small area, and it's a judgement call as to whether you're heading toward or away from one, or just between them. I'd say mentioning Newark when heading away from New York, but not toward it is reasonable. Not mentioning Philadelphia in either direction is not reasonable.

[roadman65]

The thing is when the NJ Turnpike was first opened in the early fifties, not all were destined to what later became the I-95 corridor. Some used US 13 to head further south and later when US 301 got rerouted, began to utilize that as well. So using Baltimore wasn't really feasible back then and as far as Philly went, it wasn't close enough to the toll road to warrant its placement.

[bzakharin]

The thing is when the NJ Turnpike was first opened in the early fifties, not all were destined to what later became the I-95 corridor. Some used US 13 to head further south and later when US 301 got rerouted, began to utilize that as well. So using Baltimore wasn't really feasible back then and as far as Philly went, it wasn't close enough to the toll road to warrant its placement.

Neither was I-195 built. Was Trenton a control city back then? If so, how would you get there? Via US 206?

[SignBridge]

Trenton was always the southbound control city right from the original opening of the Turnpike. And New York was the northbound.

[SignBridge]

I always thought the NBJTP/GSP interchange should have for GSP North 'Paterson' then after Paterson, Mahway.
SB, it should list Shore Points.

As for the NJTP, SB after Newark ALL signs need to say Philadelphia.  The Trenton sign always has bothered me since it is so small and not even off the TP.

You know Trenton is the state capital, right? Kind of important. And Philadelphia is farther off the Turnpike than Trenton.

Southbound on the Turnpike from Newark, both Trenton and Philadelphia are valid control cities. Trenton is valid for the Turnpike (because it's the state capital and not far off the Turnpike) and Phila. is valid for I-95.

So here's a novel idea: Why not post both cities on the southbound entrance and pull-thru signs? I believe the MUTCD does not prohibit that and it would make a lot of sense for both routes running concurrent.

[Alps]

I always thought the NBJTP/GSP interchange should have for GSP North 'Paterson' then after Paterson, Mahway.
SB, it should list Shore Points.

As for the NJTP, SB after Newark ALL signs need to say Philadelphia.  The Trenton sign always has bothered me since it is so small and not even off the TP.

You know Trenton is the state capital, right? Kind of important. And Philadelphia is farther off the Turnpike than Trenton.

Yeah, but a lot of people heading for Trenton are likely to hop on US,1 at Exit 9... that's unlikely if you are heading for Philly metro. And let's face it, the primary use of the turnpike between the two cities is connecting those two cities. Trenton should be as much as an afterthought as Newark.

I agree. Since the Turnpike goes through Newark and connects at multiple interchanges, both cities should be equally important to list. Good.

[roadman65]

The thing is when the NJ Turnpike was first opened in the early fifties, not all were destined to what later became the I-95 corridor. Some used US 13 to head further south and later when US 301 got rerouted, began to utilize that as well. So using Baltimore wasn't really feasible back then and as far as Philly went, it wasn't close enough to the toll road to warrant its placement.

Neither was I-195 built. Was Trenton a control city back then? If so, how would you get there? Via US 206?

NJ 33 from Hightstown. Read my earlier posts. Originally Exit 8 was signed Hightstown Trenton before I-195.

[roadman65]

It's reasonable to sign smaller destinations when heading away from a major city, but not when heading toward it. The problem in this area is that there are a lot of major cities within a small area, and it's a judgement call as to whether you're heading toward or away from one, or just between them. I'd say mentioning Newark when heading away from New York, but not toward it is reasonable. Not mentioning Philadelphia in either direction is not reasonable.

PennDOT doesnt think this way. Carlisle is used on I-81 NB heading to the larger Harrisburg. Hazleton over Wilkes- Barre beyond Harrisburg.

[SignBridge]

The thing is when the NJ Turnpike was first opened in the early fifties, not all were destined to what later became the I-95 corridor. Some used US 13 to head further south and later when US 301 got rerouted, began to utilize that as well. So using Baltimore wasn't really feasible back then and as far as Philly went, it wasn't close enough to the toll road to warrant its placement.

Neither was I-195 built. Was Trenton a control city back then? If so, how would you get there? Via US 206?

NJ 33 from Hightstown. Read my earlier posts. Originally Exit 8 was signed Hightstown Trenton before I-195.

And wasn't Exit-7 (U.S. 206) originally designated Bordentown-Trenton?

[roadman65]

The thing is when the NJ Turnpike was first opened in the early fifties, not all were destined to what later became the I-95 corridor. Some used US 13 to head further south and later when US 301 got rerouted, began to utilize that as well. So using Baltimore wasn't really feasible back then and as far as Philly went, it wasn't close enough to the toll road to warrant its placement.

Neither was I-195 built. Was Trenton a control city back then? If so, how would you get there? Via US 206?

NJ 33 from Hightstown. Read my earlier posts. Originally Exit 8 was signed Hightstown Trenton before I-195.

And wasn't Exit-7 (U.S. 206) originally designated Bordentown-Trenton?

Yes it was and still is. Trenton always had two exits signed. Just now the second is Exit 7A rather than 8.

[roadman65]

https://goo.gl/maps/MyWmGyrU5kPhrWTb8
No control city for the NB ramp, but Trenton for the SB ramp.