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Interstate 81 in Syracuse

Started by The Ghostbuster, May 25, 2016, 03:37:19 PM

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Rothman

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 06, 2022, 04:25:31 PM
Will construction on Interstate 81 and the "community grid" finally begin next year? The suspence is killing me!
Phase 1 is beginning and is authorized.  This is construction to upgrade I-481.  The actual work downtown won't start for a few years.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.


Rothman

Quote from: TonyTrafficLight on October 06, 2022, 04:31:18 PM
Quote from: froggie on October 04, 2022, 09:21:42 PM
Worth nothing that the article mentions the plant would be built in Clay, which means probably along or near NY 481.  Besides providing jobs for those who can commute up there, the plant really won't do much for Syracuse proper.

The place Micron is building in on Rt. 31 sort of in between Rt 481 & Rt 81. There will be good highway access at least.
We shall see.  It's yet to be revealed what improvements this will trigger.  Just sat in an SMTC meeting where officials were shrugging about what it means yet.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

froggie

Quote from: ixnay on October 05, 2022, 10:25:48 AM
Quote from: froggie on October 04, 2022, 10:27:21 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 04, 2022, 09:23:33 PM
A lot of people in Syracuse's reaction to the article was, "We'll believe it when we see it."

DestinyUSA being no small part of the reason for local skepticism.  We've seen this sort of thing before.

Why?  Has that mall been/become a bust?

"DestinyUSA" was intended to be a much larger development encompassing a good chunk of the land surrounding the mall (especially south and east), including biotech, housing, and hotels...some renditions indicated rerouting I-81 northeast of its current alignment to accommodate the development.

This was close to 20 years ago.  My wife was living/working in Syracuse (with me visiting whenever possible) at the time.  Only thing that happened was the mall expansion and renaming (it had previously been named Carousel Center).

Rothman

Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Plutonic Panda

Could the judge force the state to rebuild the highway or will this simply delay the project?

The Ghostbuster

I think it is too late to "save"  the elevated viaduct. The state has already chosen the "community grid"  option, and nothing will change that. While I disagree with getting rid of the viaduct personally (I would have preferred the viaduct be reconstructed to modern design standards), the verdict has already been given: existing Interstate 81 will be downgraded into Business 81, and Interstate 481 will be renumbered as mainline Interstate 81. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

MATraveler128

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 10, 2022, 04:30:01 PM
Could the judge force the state to rebuild the highway or will this simply delay the project?

I'm expecting the project to probably be delayed by at least a few months because of this. Maybe later next fall it will possibly be ready to start.
Formerly BlueOutback7

Lowest untraveled number: 96

kalvado

Quote from: BlueOutback7 on November 10, 2022, 05:12:37 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 10, 2022, 04:30:01 PM
Could the judge force the state to rebuild the highway or will this simply delay the project?

I'm expecting the project to probably be delayed by at least a few months because of this. Maybe later next fall it will possibly be ready to start.
hopefully in a few years things will start moving. Hopefully before old structure collapses.

74/171FAN

I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

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silverback1065

that group's argument is b.s.  :-D they're just wasting time.

webny99

Quote from: 74/171FAN on November 10, 2022, 05:31:45 PM
Quote from: Rothman on November 10, 2022, 04:26:14 PM
Ruh roh:

https://www.syracuse.com/news/2022/11/state-judge-orders-temporary-stop-to-i-81-rebuild-in-syracuse.html

Yeah, I thought Hochul winning reelection was the end of any debate regarding this project.

Zeldin came surprisingly close by NY standards but I also thought that Hochul winning meant it would proceed, given her support of the project.

However there is a 180 day period when lawsuits can be filed and we are still in that window, so it's wait and see I guess.

webny99

Quote from: silverback1065 on November 10, 2022, 06:09:57 PM
that group's argument is b.s.  :-D they're just wasting time.

The article is light on details, but this part makes some sense, and is in line with concerns brought up earlier in this thread:

QuoteThe group argues that the state's plan would result in traffic delays and backups, "making the Community grid into Community Gridlock."

The group says forcing trucks to drive extra miles around the city or through local streets would negatively impact the environment.

Rothman

My bet is that the lawsuit will be found to have no merit in the end and the project will proceed.  Environmental analysis was performed, NEPA followed and public process followed.

I doubt this will make much of a difference in the construction schedule, especially since Phase 1 contracts have nothing directly to do with the viaduct, but getting I-481 ready to become I-81.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Alps

Quote from: webny99 on November 10, 2022, 06:16:56 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 10, 2022, 06:09:57 PM
that group's argument is b.s.  :-D they're just wasting time.

The article is light on details, but this part makes some sense, and is in line with concerns brought up earlier in this thread:

QuoteThe group argues that the state's plan would result in traffic delays and backups, "making the Community grid into Community Gridlock."

The group says forcing trucks to drive extra miles around the city or through local streets would negatively impact the environment.
Quote from: Rothman on November 10, 2022, 06:21:44 PM
My bet is that the lawsuit will be found to have no merit in the end and the project will proceed.  Environmental analysis was performed, NEPA followed and public process followed.

I doubt this will make much of a difference in the construction schedule, especially since Phase 1 contracts have nothing directly to do with the viaduct, but getting I-481 ready to become I-81.
Question is whether the environmental documents actually addressed the lawsuit concern or not - that will have to be looked into before deciding if it has merit

Rothman

Quote from: Alps on November 10, 2022, 09:28:05 PM
Quote from: webny99 on November 10, 2022, 06:16:56 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 10, 2022, 06:09:57 PM
that group's argument is b.s.  :-D they're just wasting time.

The article is light on details, but this part makes some sense, and is in line with concerns brought up earlier in this thread:

QuoteThe group argues that the state's plan would result in traffic delays and backups, "making the Community grid into Community Gridlock."

The group says forcing trucks to drive extra miles around the city or through local streets would negatively impact the environment.
Quote from: Rothman on November 10, 2022, 06:21:44 PM
My bet is that the lawsuit will be found to have no merit in the end and the project will proceed.  Environmental analysis was performed, NEPA followed and public process followed.

I doubt this will make much of a difference in the construction schedule, especially since Phase 1 contracts have nothing directly to do with the viaduct, but getting I-481 ready to become I-81.
Question is whether the environmental documents actually addressed the lawsuit concern or not - that will have to be looked into before deciding if it has merit
They did.  Simple as that.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Alps

Quote from: Rothman on November 10, 2022, 11:06:02 PM
Quote from: Alps on November 10, 2022, 09:28:05 PM
Quote from: webny99 on November 10, 2022, 06:16:56 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 10, 2022, 06:09:57 PM
that group's argument is b.s.  :-D they're just wasting time.

The article is light on details, but this part makes some sense, and is in line with concerns brought up earlier in this thread:

QuoteThe group argues that the state's plan would result in traffic delays and backups, "making the Community grid into Community Gridlock."

The group says forcing trucks to drive extra miles around the city or through local streets would negatively impact the environment.
Quote from: Rothman on November 10, 2022, 06:21:44 PM
My bet is that the lawsuit will be found to have no merit in the end and the project will proceed.  Environmental analysis was performed, NEPA followed and public process followed.

I doubt this will make much of a difference in the construction schedule, especially since Phase 1 contracts have nothing directly to do with the viaduct, but getting I-481 ready to become I-81.
Question is whether the environmental documents actually addressed the lawsuit concern or not - that will have to be looked into before deciding if it has merit
They did.  Simple as that.
Citation needed.

Rothman

Quote from: Alps on November 11, 2022, 12:16:36 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 10, 2022, 11:06:02 PM
Quote from: Alps on November 10, 2022, 09:28:05 PM
Quote from: webny99 on November 10, 2022, 06:16:56 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 10, 2022, 06:09:57 PM
that group's argument is b.s.  :-D they're just wasting time.

The article is light on details, but this part makes some sense, and is in line with concerns brought up earlier in this thread:

QuoteThe group argues that the state's plan would result in traffic delays and backups, "making the Community grid into Community Gridlock."

The group says forcing trucks to drive extra miles around the city or through local streets would negatively impact the environment.
Quote from: Rothman on November 10, 2022, 06:21:44 PM
My bet is that the lawsuit will be found to have no merit in the end and the project will proceed.  Environmental analysis was performed, NEPA followed and public process followed.

I doubt this will make much of a difference in the construction schedule, especially since Phase 1 contracts have nothing directly to do with the viaduct, but getting I-481 ready to become I-81.
Question is whether the environmental documents actually addressed the lawsuit concern or not - that will have to be looked into before deciding if it has merit
They did.  Simple as that.
Citation needed.
The FEIS. :D
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Alps

Quote from: Rothman on November 11, 2022, 06:32:21 AM
Quote from: Alps on November 11, 2022, 12:16:36 AM
Quote from: Rothman on November 10, 2022, 11:06:02 PM
Quote from: Alps on November 10, 2022, 09:28:05 PM
Quote from: webny99 on November 10, 2022, 06:16:56 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on November 10, 2022, 06:09:57 PM
that group's argument is b.s.  :-D they're just wasting time.

The article is light on details, but this part makes some sense, and is in line with concerns brought up earlier in this thread:

QuoteThe group argues that the state's plan would result in traffic delays and backups, "making the Community grid into Community Gridlock."

The group says forcing trucks to drive extra miles around the city or through local streets would negatively impact the environment.
Quote from: Rothman on November 10, 2022, 06:21:44 PM
My bet is that the lawsuit will be found to have no merit in the end and the project will proceed.  Environmental analysis was performed, NEPA followed and public process followed.

I doubt this will make much of a difference in the construction schedule, especially since Phase 1 contracts have nothing directly to do with the viaduct, but getting I-481 ready to become I-81.
Question is whether the environmental documents actually addressed the lawsuit concern or not - that will have to be looked into before deciding if it has merit
They did.  Simple as that.
Citation needed.
The FEIS. :D
as long as the FEIS includes a study of truck diversions and the pain of increased miles compared to whatever else, fine. But you'd have to link me to it for me to vouch that.

Plutonic Panda

Not to mention the 100 billion dollar semi conductor plant seems like something worthy of being included when factoring future traffic growth.

elsmere241

This project is intriguing to me.  DelDOT should have done something like this with I-95 in Wilmington rather than rebuild it.  They are are at least going to put a deck with parkland at street level over a stretch of it - I hope.

Rothman

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 12, 2022, 07:46:59 PM
Not to mention the 100 billion dollar semi conductor plant seems like something worthy of being included when factoring future traffic growth.
Pfft.  Given the location of the plant, north of the I-81/I-481 northern interchange, there is no expected impact to the idea of tearing down the viaduct.

Other ideas are being floated.  Hoping that the I-81/NY 31 reconfig is funded.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Plutonic Panda

Not sure if this was posted here but it looks like the case will be heard on January 12th:

QuoteThe case is scheduled to be heard Jan. 12, 2023, in the state Supreme Court in Onondaga County.

- https://www.constructionequipmentguide.com/new-york-state-judge-halts-work-on-interstate-81-project-in-syracuse/58800

roadwaywiz95

For this upcoming weekend's Webinar presentation, we'll be taking a look at the freeway system of central New York State and the Syracuse metropolitan area. We'll also be continuing our discussion from last week about "The Three R's" (Replace/Relocate/Remove) of urban freeway replacement; there will be an in-depth discussion (that will likely take up the majority of the show) about how Syracuse's "Community Grid" plan to remove the downtown segment of Interstate 81 came to be, this proposal's pros & cons, and how this controversial plan may or may not serve as a template for future urban planning movements across North America. Since we know this topic is a lightning rod of sorts within the roads/travel community, we'd also welcome your thoughtful comments & questions in the live chat during our discussion, that way we can make things a bit more interactive than we normally allow.

If you'd like to join us live, we'll get started on Saturday (12/17) at 6 PM ET. Regardless, the link to this show can be found below:

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machias

#1273
    Does anyone know if there is an initiative with this project to bring the current signing plans on D900054 and D900056 into MUTCD compliance? Some of the sign designs are downright strange. I snapped one page of the signing plans as an example.


    • The exit tabs on the EXIT 96A installation are weirdly aligned, and the legend on the main panel is way too convoluted with extra lines and weird separation of route markers and destination. Looking through the plans there's no consistency in how the legend is represented between the advance signs, at the interchange, etc.
    • I kept looking at the sign in the lower left wondering why the distance to I-690 was 55 miles, but it turns out that's suppose to be a 5.5.  Really?
    • If you follow the links below to the signing plans you'll see boxed street names on guide panels (no longer allowed), replace in kind legend for the approaches to the Thruway interchange with southbound seeing Albany/Buffalo but northbound has no control cities, there's choices with exit only panels and is no one concerned about wind load with adding an extra exit tab on top of the existing exit tabs?
  • Also, Exit 36 on the Thruway is apparently going to remain as Watertown/Buffalo as the control cities for BL 81, which runs contrary to the purpose of moving through traffic to current I-481/future I-81. Is the approach to this project really this half-assed? Doesn't inspire confidence.




I'm hoping someone with inside NYSDOT information will let us know that all these designs are for reference only and that someone will be bringing these signing plans into MUTCD standards.

Signing plans are here:

https://www.dot.ny.gov/main/business-center/designbuildproject56/repository/D900056%20-%20Part%206%20-%20RFP%20Plans_FINAL.pdf
https://www.dot.ny.gov/main/business-center/designbuildproject54/repository/D900054%20-%20Part%206%20-%20RFP%20Plans%20-%20FINAL%20-%2020220617.pdf


Rothman

Feel free to contact NYSDOT's I-81 team with your concerns.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.



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