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Author Topic: Interstate 81 in Syracuse  (Read 189631 times)

silverback1065

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1300 on: January 19, 2023, 08:36:53 AM »

Joking aside, the rest of the Inner Loop is going to be removed and is expected to move forward in the next few years:
https://www.innerloopnorth.com/resources

This is the preferred alternative which will advance to final design and engineering:
https://www.innerloopnorth.com/_files/ugd/86b242_cda457306e6545a5a39984fe0c81945e.pdf

thank you. back to normal programing  :-D
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Rothman

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1301 on: February 15, 2023, 10:16:19 PM »

Ruling on I-81 released:

https://www.syracuse.com/news/2023/02/judge-allows-work-on-81-project-to-proceed-but-blocks-removal-of-viaduct-pending-review.html

Strange ruling in that Micron was not announced until after the FEIS was approved.

Anyway, even though Contracts 1 through 3 can proceed, NYSDOT is weighing whether or not they will appeal.

In my opinion, the statement from the plaintiffs that NYSDOT has to "go back to the drawing board" is a gross exaggeration.

Going to be some more legal shenanigans one way or another, but the Grid will still be a-coming and I'd think this'll get fully sorted out in time to let the other contracts on schedule.

(personal opinion emphasized)
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webny99

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1302 on: February 15, 2023, 10:31:41 PM »

Interesting. Obviously the viaduct is at the center of everything regardless of what happens with I-81 being rerouted onto I-481. I know I'm fantasizing a bit here, but things would get very interesting if the changes to I-481 occur but the viaduct can't come down as planned.
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Rothman

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1303 on: February 15, 2023, 11:12:15 PM »

Interesting. Obviously the viaduct is at the center of everything regardless of what happens with I-81 being rerouted onto I-481. I know I'm fantasizing a bit here, but things would get very interesting if the changes to I-481 occur but the viaduct can't come down as planned.
I'd be lying if that thought hadn't crossed my mind as well...especially as SMTC voted to add the projects to the TIP.
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vdeane

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1304 on: February 16, 2023, 12:50:17 PM »

Interesting. Obviously the viaduct is at the center of everything regardless of what happens with I-81 being rerouted onto I-481. I know I'm fantasizing a bit here, but things would get very interesting if the changes to I-481 occur but the viaduct can't come down as planned.
Especially as the southern interchange (current 16A) isn't going to be freeway/freeway for all movements.
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kalvado

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1305 on: February 16, 2023, 03:07:33 PM »

Interesting. Obviously the viaduct is at the center of everything regardless of what happens with I-81 being rerouted onto I-481. I know I'm fantasizing a bit here, but things would get very interesting if the changes to I-481 occur but the viaduct can't come down as planned.
Especially as the southern interchange (current 16A) isn't going to be freeway/freeway for all movements.
Breezewood!!!
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interstatefan990

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1306 on: February 16, 2023, 03:15:16 PM »

I know this would face a TON of opposition, but I'd love if I-81 could get expanded to 6 lanes through downtown.
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1307 on: February 16, 2023, 03:18:35 PM »

I know this would face a TON of opposition, but I'd love if I-81 could get expanded to 6 lanes through downtown.
Syracuse has been declining in population and the road is falling apart. Unless New York gets our whole millitary budget to build a six lane underground I-81 through Syracuse it ain't happening.
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webny99

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1308 on: February 16, 2023, 03:36:31 PM »

I know this would face a TON of opposition, but I'd love if I-81 could get expanded to 6 lanes through downtown.
Syracuse has been declining in population and the road is falling apart. Unless New York gets our whole millitary budget to build a six lane underground I-81 through Syracuse it ain't happening.

The viaduct's biggest problems are its age and the substandard weave movements at the Harrison/Adams and I-690 interchanges. I would be totally fine with a potential replacement being only four lanes, as that would solve both of the above problems. In fact there are many highway segments throughout the state that I'd rather see get six lanes.
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1309 on: February 16, 2023, 03:38:03 PM »

I know this would face a TON of opposition, but I'd love if I-81 could get expanded to 6 lanes through downtown.
Syracuse has been declining in population and the road is falling apart. Unless New York gets our whole millitary budget to build a six lane underground I-81 through Syracuse it ain't happening.

The viaduct's biggest problems are its age and the substandard weave movements at the Harrison/Adams and I-690 interchanges. I would be totally fine with a potential replacement being only four lanes, as that would solve both of the above problems. In fact there are many highway segments throughout the state that I'd rather see get six lanes.
It's probably been mentioned already but how many lanes is the replacement boluevard? How much money would replacing it cost vs the current project? And how crowded is I-81 through Syracuse now, as well as I-481?
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webny99

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1310 on: February 16, 2023, 04:00:36 PM »

... how many lanes is the replacement boluevard? How much money would replacing it cost vs the current project? And how crowded is I-81 through Syracuse now, as well as I-481?

Yes, that has all been discussed before... most of it at length. The replacement boulevard would be, to my knowledge, four lanes; the boulevard is somewhat cheaper than the viaduct replacement but both are expensive projects even by NY standards.

The viaduct is usually fine, traffic-wise, in my experience. Heading southbound, the transition from I-690 to I-81 is annoying because the curves are substandard and it drops to a single lane for a short span, but the overall volumes are manageable for a four-lane freeway. There are a few trouble spots on I-481 that could use widening, especially near I-690, but nothing like the traffic problems seen in larger cities.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2023, 05:52:57 PM by webny99 »
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Rothman

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1311 on: February 16, 2023, 04:02:15 PM »

I know this would face a TON of opposition, but I'd love if I-81 could get expanded to 6 lanes through downtown.
Syracuse has been declining in population and the road is falling apart. Unless New York gets our whole millitary budget to build a six lane underground I-81 through Syracuse it ain't happening.
Syracuse has been gaining population slightly over the past seven years.

The viaduct will come down. 
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1312 on: February 16, 2023, 04:04:25 PM »

Yes, that has all been discussed before... most of it at length. The replacement boulevard would be, to my knowledge, four lanes; the boulevard is somewhat cheaper than the viaduct replacement but both are expensive projects even by NY standards.

The viaduct is usually fine, traffic-wise, in my experience. Heading southbound, the transition from I-690 to I-81 is annoying because the curves are substandard and it drops to a single lane for a short span, but the overall volumes are manageable for a four-lane freeway. There are a few trouble spots on I-481 that could use widening, especially near I-690, but nothing like the traffic problems seen in larger cities.
53 pages is a lot to read so thanks for the explanation. From what you told me it seems like the city's network should manage without I-81 through the city. Many people say that if we remove freeways we should improve public transit to make up for it. Not sure how good Syracuse's public transit is but IMO every freeway removal project should also include improvements to public transit to help mitigate the traffic. 
I know this would face a TON of opposition, but I'd love if I-81 could get expanded to 6 lanes through downtown.
Syracuse has been declining in population and the road is falling apart. Unless New York gets our whole millitary budget to build a six lane underground I-81 through Syracuse it ain't happening.
Syracuse has been gaining population slightly over the past seven years.

The viaduct will come down. 
Oh really? Maybe it's the University.
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interstatefan990

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1313 on: February 16, 2023, 04:29:36 PM »

I know this would face a TON of opposition, but I'd love if I-81 could get expanded to 6 lanes through downtown.
Syracuse has been declining in population and the road is falling apart. Unless New York gets our whole millitary budget to build a six lane underground I-81 through Syracuse it ain't happening.

Well, don't forget the long-distance traffic. I passed through Syracuse on my way upstate once and was unlucky enough to get caught in a merge situation here with a full-on semi in the right lane, who was probably also long-distance. Might have been avoided if there was an extra lane. Also, if you click around the GSV on I-81 you'll notice a lot of semis.

The viaduct will come down. 

If that's true, I'd at least want to see something good take its place.
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1314 on: February 16, 2023, 04:30:47 PM »

Aren't they also improving I-481 as part of the plan?
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Rothman

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1315 on: February 16, 2023, 04:37:57 PM »

Aren't they also improving I-481 as part of the plan?
Yes.
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Rothman

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1316 on: February 16, 2023, 04:38:36 PM »




The viaduct will come down. 

If that's true, I'd at least want to see something good take its place.

That would be the grid.

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interstatefan990

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1317 on: February 16, 2023, 04:41:22 PM »

Aren't they also improving I-481 as part of the plan?
Yes.

Isn't the plan also to reroute I-81 traffic onto I-481? The addition of a third lane still might not even be enough to handle the increased traffic, especially with rush hour IMO.
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1318 on: February 16, 2023, 04:46:30 PM »

Aren't they also improving I-481 as part of the plan?
Yes.

Isn't the plan also to reroute I-81 traffic onto I-481? The addition of a third lane still might not even be enough to handle the increased traffic, especially with rush hour IMO.
If the I-81 traffic was going dowtown they wouldn't be taking I-81 all the way through anyway.
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webny99

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1319 on: February 16, 2023, 06:33:49 PM »

Yes, that has all been discussed before... most of it at length. The replacement boulevard would be, to my knowledge, four lanes; the boulevard is somewhat cheaper than the viaduct replacement but both are expensive projects even by NY standards.

The viaduct is usually fine, traffic-wise, in my experience. Heading southbound, the transition from I-690 to I-81 is annoying because the curves are substandard and it drops to a single lane for a short span, but the overall volumes are manageable for a four-lane freeway. There are a few trouble spots on I-481 that could use widening, especially near I-690, but nothing like the traffic problems seen in larger cities.
53 pages is a lot to read so thanks for the explanation. From what you told me it seems like the city's network should manage without I-81 through the city. Many people say that if we remove freeways we should improve public transit to make up for it. Not sure how good Syracuse's public transit is but IMO every freeway removal project should also include improvements to public transit to help mitigate the traffic.

The city should be able to manage without I-81 - that's why they're supportive of the grid. Plus, anyone coming to the city is going to be using surface streets anyways. The problem is the traffic from the suburbs and surrounding cities who use the viaduct to get to and through and around Syracuse. North/south thru traffic can use I-481, but that doesn't account for the western suburbs and the areas west of Syracuse (including Rochester and sometimes Buffalo) who currently use the viaduct to get to I-81 south. This will majorly affect a trip from Rochester to Binghamton, just as one example.
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1320 on: February 16, 2023, 08:31:40 PM »

Yes, that has all been discussed before... most of it at length. The replacement boulevard would be, to my knowledge, four lanes; the boulevard is somewhat cheaper than the viaduct replacement but both are expensive projects even by NY standards.

The viaduct is usually fine, traffic-wise, in my experience. Heading southbound, the transition from I-690 to I-81 is annoying because the curves are substandard and it drops to a single lane for a short span, but the overall volumes are manageable for a four-lane freeway. There are a few trouble spots on I-481 that could use widening, especially near I-690, but nothing like the traffic problems seen in larger cities.
53 pages is a lot to read so thanks for the explanation. From what you told me it seems like the city's network should manage without I-81 through the city. Many people say that if we remove freeways we should improve public transit to make up for it. Not sure how good Syracuse's public transit is but IMO every freeway removal project should also include improvements to public transit to help mitigate the traffic.

The city should be able to manage without I-81 - that's why they're supportive of the grid. Plus, anyone coming to the city is going to be using surface streets anyways. The problem is the traffic from the suburbs and surrounding cities who use the viaduct to get to and through and around Syracuse. North/south thru traffic can use I-481, but that doesn't account for the western suburbs and the areas west of Syracuse (including Rochester and sometimes Buffalo) who currently use the viaduct to get to I-81 south. This will majorly affect a trip from Rochester to Binghamton, just as one example.
For Rochester to Binghamton, it adds an extra 9 minutes. Not awful honestly. And I don't think that Syracuse residents who live in the city all the time really care if Rochester-Binghamton traffic has to take an extra 9 minutes. You live in Rochester, and looking at the map, this mostly affects Rochester bound traffic the most. Doesn't affect Buffalo-east traffic that much.
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ARMOURERERIC

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1321 on: February 16, 2023, 08:58:02 PM »

Would not Rochester to Binghamton take 390
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Roadgeekteen

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1322 on: February 16, 2023, 09:01:28 PM »

Would not Rochester to Binghamton take 390
90-481-81 would still be faster than 390-86.
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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1323 on: February 16, 2023, 09:09:27 PM »

Would not Rochester to Binghamton take 390
I-390 is longer than even taking I-481, except for the west side for which it is about the same (and even then, often still a minute longer).  For the east side, it's no contest.  This is true even in Henrietta.
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webny99

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Re: Interstate 81 in Syracuse
« Reply #1324 on: February 16, 2023, 10:15:09 PM »

For Rochester to Binghamton, it adds an extra 9 minutes. Not awful honestly. And I don't think that Syracuse residents who live in the city all the time really care if Rochester-Binghamton traffic has to take an extra 9 minutes. You live in Rochester, and looking at the map, this mostly affects Rochester bound traffic the most. Doesn't affect Buffalo-east traffic that much.

Well, here we go again.  :cool:

Yes, I am well aware that it affects Rochester the most - and I'm not expecting anyone in Syracuse to care about traffic from Rochester, but from a traffic and engineering standpoint, they are all users of the road and it's part of a much larger road network, so all users of the road should considered, not just the locals. 9 minutes is a lot for medium-distance trip or a commute (remember, this affects anyone who commutes on the viaduct too, so it could go from a 10 minute trip to 18-19 in extreme cases), and there's not really any way to save time on alternate routes.

And it affects the Buffalo area just as much for anyone that takes the Thruway to Syracuse and then heads south. Some Buffalo traffic can use US 20A>NY 36>I-390 to get to Binghamton, but that's not faster from north of Buffalo, and it's also not viable for traffic heading to Cortland or anywhere else north of Binghamton.
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