Should Button Copy Signs Come Back?

[Roadmaestro95]

I have been thinking about this topic because many of the button copy signs are becoming rarer and rarer around the NY, NJ, CT Tri-State Area and they are being replaced with those "regular" signs that just seem much less interesting and disappointing. So give your opinions if the button lettering should come back or signage should remain "modern".

[wytout]

The only way to bring Button copy back is to go WAY back... True old school! Button copy as intended... on NON-retro sheeting.  That means you'll have to light it all too!  I like lighted BGS's they are SO rare in the Northeast.  And with the declining price of LED'S and the econimcal costs of running them... Maybe a return to the old could be a technological advance in itself !!!

But if it's going to be Button copy , a la CT 1985-1993... FORGET IT.. button copy on retro sheeting is just a plain disaster, and dangerous too if you ever have to rely on the signs at night.

off topic: oh and BTW Roadmaestro and lets hope the Rangers can keep this series alive tonight 2nd Period!... my local AHL club... the Rangers affiliate just Moppped up the Bridgeport sound tigers in a 3 game sweep of the first round.  Let's Go Rangers!... Let's Go Whale!

[Roadmaestro95]

Wytout I agree with using the Non-Retro Sheeting with the button copy. And no CT button copy but Long Island Button Copy that's used with NJ style NY Route signs which I like.

And GO RANGERS!

[hbelkins]

Unfortunately, this is an impossibility. Button copy is no longer manufactured.

[Roadmaestro95]

Then again, anybody could change that, but it's very doubtful.

[NJRoadfan]

NJDOT used retro sheeting with button copy for many years... up until it ceased production. No readability problems, some of the signs still have working lights too. What I can't figure out is NJDOT's policy on lights, I still see brand new installations with lighting, while some don't have it at all. Even without LEDs, running the lights with compact florescent bulbs would still be cheaper then mercury vapor... and easier on the eyes then high pressure sodium. (NJDOT, NJ Turnpike Authority is guilty of that, along with some other state DOTs)

[roadfro]

^ Except that fluorescent bulbs don't tend to do well in cold or changing weather, at least from my experience/observations.

I love the look of button copy signs, but from the practical perspective I don't think they'd ever make a comeback given current reflection materials.

[formulanone]

After seeing so many older button copy BGS around the nation, it makes me wonder is it really that much cheaper to re-sheet a sign every 7-10 years?

The sheeting fades or cracks rather quickly in most heavily-sunlit places in Florida, which seems to be an unnecessary expense in it's own right.

Then again, if sheeting costs a mere fraction of button/demountable copy, then that's the way the fiscal ball bounces.

[NJRoadfan]

^ Except that fluorescent bulbs don't tend to do well in cold or changing weather, at least from my experience/observations.

Our local electric utility (PSE&G) has been quickly retrofitting in "induction fixture" florescent street lights that seem to work in extreme cold. A similar application can be used for BGS installations. One plus is the streetlights don't suffer from extreme light pollution, unlike HPS. I haven't seen these lights anywhere else outside of PSE&G's service territory, hopefully they catch on.

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20110531006226/en/Lighting-Tech-Successfully-Completes-World%E2%80%99s-Largest-Induction

http://www.nj.com/news/local/index.ssf/2009/09/new_energy-efficient_streetlig.html

[flowmotion]

I've always felt button-copy was hard to read in low-light conditions, even back when my eyes were better than they are today. Is there anything good about it, other than the quaint look?

[kurumi]

I voted no because I loathe the button-copy state and US route markers CT erected in the 1980s and 1990s. I very much prefer the black on white markers.

Bad (CT 163): http://www.flickr.com/photos/therealkurumi/4357139764/in/set-7215762365768440
Good (CT 162): http://www.flickr.com/photos/therealkurumi/4357144454/in/set-72157623657684402

[Roadmaestro95]

I voted no because I loathe the button-copy state and US route markers CT erected in the 1980s and 1990s. I very much prefer the black on white markers.

Bad (CT 163): http://www.flickr.com/photos/therealkurumi/4357139764/in/set-7215762365768440
Good (CT 162): http://www.flickr.com/photos/therealkurumi/4357144454/in/set-72157623657684402

That type of sign only works for CA signage...I agree on the ugliness of the route markers used in button copy signage in CT.

[hbelkins]

Why would it work for CA but not CT?

I have also seen photos of similar signage in LA -- meaning Louisiana, not the city in CA.

[Ian]

I'm one of the only people who actually likes the Connecticut button copy. Sure it sucks to read at night, but it was different.

[hbelkins]

I'm one of the only people who actually likes the Connecticut button copy. Sure it sucks to read at night, but it was different.

I like it, too. And I had no problems with the newer button copy signage when I drove most of I-95 at night a couple of years ago. The hardest signs to read were the ones that didn't reflect, not those that did.

[kphoger]

Oh, heck, let's just go for the gusto!

All street blades should be button-copy.
All county line signs should be button-copy.
All parking zone restrictions should be button-copy.
All Burma-Shave signs should be button-copy.
All license plates should be button-copy.
All highway patrolmen's name tags should be button-copy.

[KEK Inc.]

There's no practical reason to switch over.

[Scott5114]

I'd advocate bringing back button copy, in a sense, only if the button copy elements were white LEDs instead of reflectors. LED technology is pretty cheap now and it would probably be fairly legible. However, if we're going back to button reflectors, while the roadgeek in me finds them appealing, I don't think anyone else can argue that microprismatic sheeting doesn't do the job much better.

My workplace recently replaced some dot matrix printers with laser printers, and while there are some problems with the way the implementation was done (the reason dot matrix was still in use was because triplicate paper was being used, so now we have to sign forms three times instead of once), technology has left the dot matrix printer in the dust, and it was really time to switch. It's the same with button copy.

We may as well advocate for toll due displays to switch to Nixie tubes...

[agentsteel53]

I'd advocate bringing back button copy, in a sense, only if the button copy elements were white LEDs instead of reflectors.

how much longer before all signs are a programmable array of LEDs?  all VMS all the time.

[mightyace]

^^^^

Or simply on HUDs in our vehicles or maybe wired directly into our brains.

[Scott5114]

I'd advocate bringing back button copy, in a sense, only if the button copy elements were white LEDs instead of reflectors.

how much longer before all signs are a programmable array of LEDs?  all VMS all the time.

Even using LEDs, power consumption costs will probably continue to favor traditional-style signs, most of which don't really need to change often enough for there to be any significant cost savings to make the programmability a factor.

[mightyace]

^^^

I think you're taking Jake's post too seriously. 

[Scott5114]

Nah, I've just thought about what futuristic traffic control devices might look like perhaps a bit too much

What would be the ultimate is holographic road signs, a la Star Trek...when there's an accident, cones and signage appear out of thin air around the incident...

[on_wisconsin]

To answer the title question: Hell NO!

[KEK Inc.]

LEDs are expensive...  I don't see how it would be feasible to have LED BGS.