The Walmart by me now claims the coin shortage is causing them to not want to transact cash transactions at the self checkout stations. Yet they will do it at the cashier lines. Makes me wonder what really is their motive to take such a measure.
Anyway are Walmart's in your area doing the same?
If it's truly due to the coin shortage, they should accept exact change.
(note: if you're going to merge, merge the relevant posts in the other thread into this thread, not this thread into the other thread)
Sort of frustrating that they're still not accepting Google/Apple pay.
Quote from: 1 on September 28, 2021, 11:53:12 AM
If it's truly due to the coin shortage, they should accept exact change.
Yeah, the easiest way to overcome the coin shortage is to... accept coins from customers!
Personally I try to always reduce the number of coins than I'm going to get back, such as adding a penny when my total ends with .01 so I can get a dime back instead of a nickel and four pennies. Not everyone does this, however, so I can see how coins can bleed quickly at a place with a high volume of transactions.
Quote from: 1 on September 28, 2021, 11:53:12 AM
If it's truly due to the coin shortage, they should accept exact change.
(note: if you're going to merge, merge the relevant posts in the other thread into this thread, not this thread into the other thread)
And then you start a transaction and suddenly realize you're 5 cents short?...
It just easier to push those who has options into a different path. Totally eliminating cash may create legal issues, and certainly can cost WM some customers (remember - 6% population is without a bank account)
On a grand scheme of things, this may be intentional or unintentional coercing into reforms. Currently, nickel cost more as metal scrap than coin (such scrapping is actuallyt illegal, but yet), and pennies are crossing that line back and forth. That is before costs of manufacturing and distribution are considered.
Looking a bit north, Canada no longer uses pennies, and I believe their 5-cents are cheaper alloy. same for $1 bills as those are too low value and change hands too often - so not lasting long. Loonies and toonies work just fine! Maybe pennies and Saturday USPS delivery are not going to last...
I believe the theory may be that people seldom put coins in at a self checkout. They put in larger bills and get change back.
I don't know how the machines work. If they are like vending machines, any coins coming in go into a hopper to be counted and deposited at a bank. Any coins being used for change would need to be pre-loaded into the machines.
In a checkout lane with a clerk, coins coming in can be used as change in the next transactions, so the initial supply doesn't need to be as much.
Yes, my closest Walmart converted to all self-checkout back in the summer. Frankly it makes me mad.
Quote from: GaryV on September 28, 2021, 01:06:45 PMI don't know how the machines work. If they are like vending machines, any coins coming in go into a hopper to be counted and deposited at a bank. Any coins being used for change would need to be pre-loaded into the machines.
I can think of a few reasons why they wouldn't want the coins coming in to be immediately put back into circulation.
My recent experience with Walmart has been that most of the self-checkout lanes take both cash and plastic, and a minority are plastic-only. I think I estimated my personal experience at 65-35 in favor of both methods.
Quote from: webny99 on September 28, 2021, 12:16:31 PM
Personally I try to always reduce the number of coins than I'm going to get back, such as adding a penny when my total ends with .01 so I can get a dime back instead of a nickel and four pennies. Not everyone does this, however, so I can see how coins can bleed quickly at a place with a high volume of transactions.
I have seen this confuse the absolute bejeebers out of perplexed clerks, mostly at fast-food restaurants. Your order comes to $9.05 and you give them $10.05 so you'll get back one $1 bill instead of 95 cents in change. Or your total comes to $11 and you give them $21 so you'll get back a $10 bill.
So many people working retail and customer service have come to rely on the cash register to calculate the change to the point where they are unable to compute it in their heads. We've probably all either had this experience, or have heard about it -- or had to explain it to the clerk. "It cost $5.51 so I gave you $6.01, which means I should get two quarters back."
It's been all-card at Walmart and a few other self-checkout-heavy stores here since April 2020. They should really be forced to accept contactless cards at these machines too, since the chip readers don't always work (especially when poorly maintained).
Quote from: hbelkins on September 28, 2021, 03:03:57 PM
My recent experience with Walmart has been that most of the self-checkout lanes take both cash and plastic, and a minority are plastic-only. I think I estimated my personal experience at 65-35 in favor of both methods.
That's been my experience too. The plastic-only self-checkouts mainly (but not always) seem to be ones where the cash-handling parts of a particular checkout machine aren't working, or the newer and more compact machines which let Walmart squeeze more checkouts into the self-check area.
The self-check areas often don't have separate lanes for each machine. That means one cashier can watch over a dozen or more machines, to try to fix any problems that come up.
Quote from: oscar on September 28, 2021, 05:36:32 PM
The self-check areas often don't have separate lanes for each machine. That means one cashier can watch over a dozen or more machines, to try to fix any problems that come up.
My Stop & Shop location had 5 self-checkout locations. People needed help often enough that one employee could not fix 12 people's problems if there were 12.
Quote from: Bruce on September 28, 2021, 05:24:49 PM
It's been all-card at Walmart and a few other self-checkout-heavy stores here since April 2020. They should really be forced to accept contactless cards at these machines too, since the chip readers don't always work (especially when poorly maintained).
I believe WM reluctance to accept contactless cards - and so not allowing phone payment apps, google/apple/samsung - is due to their desire to promote their own payment app. A few players tried that - Chase rolled out and quickly gave up on their thing, I believe Target tried their app, etc. I believe that few established players now have the market, and there is now room for niche players. WM may have a different opinion, though.
WM also didn't like chip-and-sign card verification technology common in US, especially given that signature is often waived - up to $100 by now, I believe? WM wanted more secure chip-and-pin, which is used in many other places, including Canada. But WM they couldn't bulge US market.
At the Philadelphia Eagles game on Sunday, they have gone cashless there too. The roaming beer vendors had a cellphone-type device for credit card payments. It was *much* slower than taking cash. That, combined with probably a reluctance of people to want to work anyway, resulted in only seeing the beer vendor once in our section for the entire game.
I also noticed the roaming beer vendor sold beers for $1 more than a concession stand; first time I've seen that. I'm not sure if it was a built-in tip for the roaming vendor or what the reason was. (It was an official price badge, not something the guy was making up).
Quote from: 1 on September 28, 2021, 05:37:54 PM
Quote from: oscar on September 28, 2021, 05:36:32 PM
The self-check areas often don't have separate lanes for each machine. That means one cashier can watch over a dozen or more machines, to try to fix any problems that come up.
My Stop & Shop location had 5 self-checkout locations. People needed help often enough that one employee could not fix 12 people's problems if there were 12.
Well, I said "try to" fix. Often, the only available fix is a "Lane Closed" message on the screen, or a cardboard "Lane Closed" sign on the scanner, or to disable the cash option or designate a machine "Card Only" if the only problem was with the coin/bill mechanisms.
Quote from: oscar on September 28, 2021, 06:06:20 PM
Quote from: 1 on September 28, 2021, 05:37:54 PM
Quote from: oscar on September 28, 2021, 05:36:32 PM
The self-check areas often don't have separate lanes for each machine. That means one cashier can watch over a dozen or more machines, to try to fix any problems that come up.
My Stop & Shop location had 5 self-checkout locations. People needed help often enough that one employee could not fix 12 people's problems if there were 12.
Well, I said "try to" fix. Often, the only available fix is a "Lane Closed" message on the screen, or a cardboard "Lane Closed" sign on the scanner, or to disable the cash option or designate a machine "Card Only" if the only problem was with the coin/bill mechanisms.
There are quite a few problems with the scanning process which require "administrative privileges" to resolve even when equipment is working fine. Item is not scanning or erroneously scanned twice are the most common, but there are quite a other issues which require employee intervention.
Wal-mart has a narrow mind when it comes to coins running out - the computers start change distribution with quarters, if a register runs out of quarters, they switch to plastic only because the software's not set up to divvy up between dimes and nickels.
They will not ever accept anything contactless except their proprietary method.
Quote from: SSOWorld on September 28, 2021, 06:31:08 PM
They will not ever accept anything contactless except their proprietary method.
They used to pimp "Walmart Pay" which involved their phone app. Is it still a thing? I'm not using Apple Pay or any of those services.
What's the threshold for requiring a PIN anyway? I've had a number of purchases recently where the total was approved without my needing to enter my PIN. And I can never predict based on total price whether or not I'll need to punch in the number. A $40 purchase can be approved without a PIN, but a $20 purchase needs one. Sometimes I wonder if the system is able to match a card to frequent purchases and if it realizes that you've bought Sam's American Choice peach flavored water, cat food, and dog treats from that location before, the card use is most likely legit.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 28, 2021, 06:43:58 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on September 28, 2021, 06:31:08 PM
They will not ever accept anything contactless except their proprietary method.
They used to pimp "Walmart Pay" which involved their phone app. Is it still a thing? I'm not using Apple Pay or any of those services.
What's the threshold for requiring a PIN anyway? I've had a number of purchases recently where the total was approved without my needing to enter my PIN. And I can never predict based on total price whether or not I'll need to punch in the number. A $40 purchase can be approved without a PIN, but a $20 purchase needs one. Sometimes I wonder if the system is able to match a card to frequent purchases and if it realizes that you've bought Sam's American Choice peach flavored water, cat food, and dog treats from that location before, the card use is most likely legit.
It's generally up to the retailer, per agreement with their credit card vendor. Generally speaking, the higher the amount accepted without a PIN, the higher the risk, the higher the rate charged to the retailer.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 28, 2021, 06:43:58 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on September 28, 2021, 06:31:08 PM
They will not ever accept anything contactless except their proprietary method.
They used to pimp "Walmart Pay" which involved their phone app. Is it still a thing? I'm not using Apple Pay or any of those services.
What's wrong with Apple Pay - what's different about it and Google Pay than what a retailer's pay app does?
Oh, it's big tech? someone's worst enemy who snoops?
so does walmart! 😈
Quote from: roadman65 on September 28, 2021, 11:51:18 AM
The Walmart by me now claims the coin shortage is causing them to not want to transact cash transactions at the self checkout stations. Yet they will do it at the cashier lines. Makes me wonder what really is their motive to take such a measure.
Anyway are Walmart's in your area doing the same?
Meanwhile, on the flip side, I have been to some Kroger affiliates (City Market/Smith's) where it's the complete opposite when it comes to the so-called "coin shortage":
Manual/Staffed/Full Serve Checkouts: Coin change is given back as a "next visit automatic coupon" attached to your Kroger (City Market/Smiths) value card. Not sure how they handle those without Kroger Cards.
Self Serve Checkouts: Accepts cash and still dispenses all coin change as normal.
Go Figure...
Quote from: SSOWorld on September 28, 2021, 07:53:46 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 28, 2021, 06:43:58 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on September 28, 2021, 06:31:08 PM
They will not ever accept anything contactless except their proprietary method.
They used to pimp "Walmart Pay" which involved their phone app. Is it still a thing? I'm not using Apple Pay or any of those services.
What's wrong with Apple Pay - what's different about it and Google Pay than what a retailer's pay app does?
Oh, it's big tech? someone's worst enemy who snoops? so does walmart! 😈
Everyone wants a slice of banking pie. Google actually going towards becoming a super bank - service provider for retail banks or something like that.
Looks like retail is not a gold mine any more.
Quote from: kalvado on September 28, 2021, 05:40:09 PM
WM also didn't like chip-and-sign card verification technology common in US, especially given that signature is often waived - up to $100 by now, I believe? WM wanted more secure chip-and-pin, which is used in many other places, including Canada. But WM they couldn't bulge US market.
Nothing is stopping them from doing chip and PIN if they really want to. My bank (First Niagara, prior to the merger with Key Bank) did. My card had a PIN and everywhere except Target with chip readers asked for it. Even after the merger, despite Key Bank being chip and sign, the initial card I got with the merger was no different. My current card now defaults to chip and sign, but it still has a PIN, which I've used at the USPS kiosk to buy stamps and for pay at the pump at Sheetz. I presume any Canadian terminals would ask for it too, but I haven't had the chance to see.
Quote from: vdeane on September 28, 2021, 09:44:38 PM
Quote from: kalvado on September 28, 2021, 05:40:09 PM
WM also didn't like chip-and-sign card verification technology common in US, especially given that signature is often waived - up to $100 by now, I believe? WM wanted more secure chip-and-pin, which is used in many other places, including Canada. But WM they couldn't bulge US market.
Nothing is stopping them from doing chip and PIN if they really want to. My bank (First Niagara, prior to the merger with Key Bank) did. My card had a PIN and everywhere except Target with chip readers asked for it. Even after the merger, despite Key Bank being chip and sign, the initial card I got with the merger was no different. My current card now defaults to chip and sign, but it still has a PIN, which I've used at the USPS kiosk to buy stamps and for pay at the pump at Sheetz. I presume any Canadian terminals would ask for it too, but I haven't had the chance to see.
Was it a debit card or a credit card?
Debit cards work with pins as ATMs don't have signature option anyway. I am not sure if the pin for my credit card is even setup.
I've never heard of a PIN for a credit card, only for a debit card. My debit card seems to be about 80/20 in favor of the chip reader asking for the PIN. It almost always does at the gas pump.
Quote from: kalvado on September 28, 2021, 09:47:54 PM
Quote from: vdeane on September 28, 2021, 09:44:38 PM
Quote from: kalvado on September 28, 2021, 05:40:09 PM
WM also didn't like chip-and-sign card verification technology common in US, especially given that signature is often waived - up to $100 by now, I believe? WM wanted more secure chip-and-pin, which is used in many other places, including Canada. But WM they couldn't bulge US market.
Nothing is stopping them from doing chip and PIN if they really want to. My bank (First Niagara, prior to the merger with Key Bank) did. My card had a PIN and everywhere except Target with chip readers asked for it. Even after the merger, despite Key Bank being chip and sign, the initial card I got with the merger was no different. My current card now defaults to chip and sign, but it still has a PIN, which I've used at the USPS kiosk to buy stamps and for pay at the pump at Sheetz. I presume any Canadian terminals would ask for it too, but I haven't had the chance to see.
Was it a debit card or a credit card?
Debit cards work with pins as ATMs don't have signature option anyway. I am not sure if the pin for my credit card is even setup.
It was/is a credit card. It's not completely unheard of in the US, but First Niagara's credit cards are the only instance I'm aware of that isn't a corporate card or from a credit union associated with the federal government.
I'm actually in the "don't use debit cards because fraud results in money leaving your bank account" camp. I'm not as obsessive as Dad (who will argue with the bank until they give him a plain ATM card instead), but maybe I should be. I once had my debit card taken and used to sign up for Amazon Prime and then returned so that I didn't know anything was up until I saw the Amazon charge in my online banking a month later. Fortunately they signed up for the monthly version and not the annual one.
Quote from: webny99 on September 28, 2021, 09:54:29 PM
I've never heard of a PIN for a credit card, only for a debit card. My debit card seems to be about 80/20 in favor of the chip reader asking for the PIN. It almost always does at the gas pump.
I know Target's credit card always requires the PIN when making any purchase.
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on September 28, 2021, 10:26:06 PM
Quote from: webny99 on September 28, 2021, 09:54:29 PM
I've never heard of a PIN for a credit card, only for a debit card. My debit card seems to be about 80/20 in favor of the chip reader asking for the PIN. It almost always does at the gas pump.
I know Target's credit card always requires the PIN when making any purchase.
Which is kinda ironic given that their POS terminals were the one spot that never asked me for the PIN back before my First Niagara credit card was re-issued as a Key Bank card.
Quote from: GaryV on September 28, 2021, 01:06:45 PM
I believe the theory may be that people seldom put coins in at a self checkout. They put in larger bills and get change back.
I don't know how the machines work. If they are like vending machines, any coins coming in go into a hopper to be counted and deposited at a bank. Any coins being used for change would need to be pre-loaded into the machines.
No, they're sorted into individual hoppers that dispense incoming coins back out. They do the same with the bills (this has been verified by WheresGeorge users who have done things like put $19 in ones into a machine, then a $20 bill to try to get four fresh ones back–on older machines that worked, but it doesn't anymore).
Personally, I pay with coins more at a self-checkout than I do with a live cashier. It's simple to just throw all the change in my pocket in the machine and let it count it, then put enough bills in to pay the total. Or throw a bunch of change in and pay the rest with a debit card. Doing that with a live cashier is awkward because they have to count and sort the change and it holds up the line. With a live cashier, I always pay with bills only so I don't have to fish around in the coins in my pocket (and I also bring the coins home to deposit into savings later anyway).
Quote from: SSOWorld on September 28, 2021, 07:53:46 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 28, 2021, 06:43:58 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on September 28, 2021, 06:31:08 PM
They will not ever accept anything contactless except their proprietary method.
They used to pimp "Walmart Pay" which involved their phone app. Is it still a thing? I'm not using Apple Pay or any of those services.
What's wrong with Apple Pay - what's different about it and Google Pay than what a retailer's pay app does?
Oh, it's big tech? someone's worst enemy who snoops? so does walmart! 😈
I don't use Walmart pay either. It's just easier to use cash or a card.
Quote from: thenetwork on September 28, 2021, 08:25:39 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on September 28, 2021, 11:51:18 AM
The Walmart by me now claims the coin shortage is causing them to not want to transact cash transactions at the self checkout stations. Yet they will do it at the cashier lines. Makes me wonder what really is their motive to take such a measure.
Anyway are Walmart's in your area doing the same?
Meanwhile, on the flip side, I have been to some Kroger affiliates (City Market/Smith's) where it's the complete opposite when it comes to the so-called "coin shortage":
Manual/Staffed/Full Serve Checkouts: Coin change is given back as a "next visit automatic coupon" attached to your Kroger (City Market/Smiths) value card. Not sure how they handle those without Kroger Cards.
Self Serve Checkouts: Accepts cash and still dispenses all coin change as normal.
Go Figure...
When Kroger announced that "your change goes back on your Kroger card as a credit to future purchases," there was a pretty big uproar about it in this area. They may have reversed that policy now.
Quote from: vdeane on September 29, 2021, 12:48:59 PM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on September 28, 2021, 10:26:06 PM
Quote from: webny99 on September 28, 2021, 09:54:29 PM
I've never heard of a PIN for a credit card, only for a debit card. My debit card seems to be about 80/20 in favor of the chip reader asking for the PIN. It almost always does at the gas pump.
I know Target's credit card always requires the PIN when making any purchase.
Which is kinda ironic given that their POS terminals were the one spot that never asked me for the PIN back before my First Niagara credit card was re-issued as a Key Bank card.
Yet any other credit card I've used @ Target, it's never required a pin, just Target's own.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 29, 2021, 05:10:03 PM
When Kroger announced that "your change goes back on your Kroger card as a credit to future purchases," there was a pretty big uproar about it in this area. They may have reversed that policy now.
I'd be pretty pissed if I went into a Kroger for an item or two on a trip and they pulled that. There are no Kroger affiliates in my area, so I'd have no way of redeeming it.
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 29, 2021, 06:35:50 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 29, 2021, 05:10:03 PM
When Kroger announced that "your change goes back on your Kroger card as a credit to future purchases," there was a pretty big uproar about it in this area. They may have reversed that policy now.
I'd be pretty pissed if I went into a Kroger for an item or two on a trip and they pulled that. There are no Kroger affiliates in my area, so I'd have no way of redeeming it.
If you don't have a loyalty card, I'd imagine you'd get change back.
I can never remember what the Kroger affiliates are in other states. For some reason I thought Albertson's was, but it's not the case. We had to get something to nuke in the motel room in the Shelby, Montana, Albertson's. Prices without their loyalty card were way too expensive. Of course, the same goes for Kroger. If they don't have a sale, or a card member special, they cost way too much.
I would have gone into Walmart or a Dollar General/Family Dollar, but Shelby doesn't have any of those. I know some people have an allergic reaction to Walmart, but they're typically going to be cheaper than anyone else.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 29, 2021, 07:22:30 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 29, 2021, 06:35:50 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 29, 2021, 05:10:03 PM
When Kroger announced that "your change goes back on your Kroger card as a credit to future purchases," there was a pretty big uproar about it in this area. They may have reversed that policy now.
I'd be pretty pissed if I went into a Kroger for an item or two on a trip and they pulled that. There are no Kroger affiliates in my area, so I'd have no way of redeeming it.
If you don't have a loyalty card, I'd imagine you'd get change back.
Hopefully. At Homeland (a local chain I only rarely go into for a non-perishable item my regular grocery store stopped carrying) the cashiers will enter a dummy loyalty card number (theirs is I believe set up by phone number and they use something like (405) 999-9999) so that people who don't have a loyalty card will still get the sale prices. I don't go there enough to know if that's company policy or just the cashiers being nice, though. But in any case, that sort of system combined with the Kroger policy would mean you'd either get the sale prices or the change but not both.
I don't know that I buy that there's actually a change shortage, though. Coins don't wear out anywhere near as fast as bills, so they all had to go
somewhere. Back when we were doing lockdowns, I could see that being an issue because cash circulation in general was disrupted by people staying home and not interacting face to face, but things have been open for long enough now that all of those coins have to have made it back to financial institutions by now.
Interestingly, during the last recession, there seemed to be too many coins that they slowed production for a bit – 2009 dimes and nickels are hard to find.
Quote from: 1 on September 29, 2021, 08:42:49 PM
Interestingly, during the last recession, there seemed to be too many coins that they slowed production for a bit – 2009 dimes and nickels are hard to find.
So far, enough money had been "printed" and handed out so that people dont need to literally reach to the bottom of cookie jars for that last penny.
I haven't bought anything with cash for a while (all of my cash goes directly to the bank), so this doesn't personally bother me. I'm much happier using a credit card, as it's not my money I'm spending.
I'm not keen on self-checkout accepting cash. In my experience, cash is slower than a card or tap, and self-checkout is the effective replacement of the express lanes. No reason to permit the slower payment method in the faster lanes.
I use Walmart Pay. I originally thought it was a gimmick, but it's way faster than any other payment method as I can scan the QR code immediately after scanning the last item. It also saves receipts electronically, which is excellent when you live in a shady area like me, and every return requires one.
Still, they should permit tap to pay. I don't see what difference it makes to them.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 29, 2021, 07:22:30 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 29, 2021, 06:35:50 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 29, 2021, 05:10:03 PM
When Kroger announced that "your change goes back on your Kroger card as a credit to future purchases," there was a pretty big uproar about it in this area. They may have reversed that policy now.
I'd be pretty pissed if I went into a Kroger for an item or two on a trip and they pulled that. There are no Kroger affiliates in my area, so I'd have no way of redeeming it.
If you don't have a loyalty card, I'd imagine you'd get change back.
I can never remember what the Kroger affiliates are in other states. For some reason I thought Albertson's was, but it's not the case. We had to get something to nuke in the motel room in the Shelby, Montana, Albertson's. Prices without their loyalty card were way too expensive. Of course, the same goes for Kroger. If they don't have a sale, or a card member special, they cost way too much.
I would have gone into Walmart or a Dollar General/Family Dollar, but Shelby doesn't have any of those. I know some people have an allergic reaction to Walmart, but they're typically going to be cheaper than anyone else.
This map is handy:
(https://i.imgur.com/JMp5BBC.png)
For Montana and Utah, it's Smiths. For the Northwest, it's Fred Meyer and QFC if you're west of the Cascades.
I started using accounts with Kroger (et al), Stop and Shop, and Giant Eagle about 6-7 years ago, and they allowed one to create an account with a fake phone number. I don't know if this policy has changed during account sign-up, but they all allow for an "Alternate ID" in lieu of a phone number or card, which I never carry. I'd not hard to make up this number; there's loads of new area code overlays out there which have almost nothing in use, and you can figure that the highest exchange numbers will probably be the last to be used, if you're worried about someone getting your spam calls.
Do you really think they have my correct name and address? How marketable is that fellow from Alabama who shops in a store 1000 miles away, just once every 6-8 months or so, to which I should even care? All I know is that I shouldn't have to pay $5 for an advertised $3 sale item in the same store.
Quote from: Bruce on September 30, 2021, 02:14:04 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 29, 2021, 07:22:30 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 29, 2021, 06:35:50 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 29, 2021, 05:10:03 PM
When Kroger announced that "your change goes back on your Kroger card as a credit to future purchases," there was a pretty big uproar about it in this area. They may have reversed that policy now.
I'd be pretty pissed if I went into a Kroger for an item or two on a trip and they pulled that. There are no Kroger affiliates in my area, so I'd have no way of redeeming it.
If you don't have a loyalty card, I'd imagine you'd get change back.
I can never remember what the Kroger affiliates are in other states. For some reason I thought Albertson's was, but it's not the case. We had to get something to nuke in the motel room in the Shelby, Montana, Albertson's. Prices without their loyalty card were way too expensive. Of course, the same goes for Kroger. If they don't have a sale, or a card member special, they cost way too much.
I would have gone into Walmart or a Dollar General/Family Dollar, but Shelby doesn't have any of those. I know some people have an allergic reaction to Walmart, but they're typically going to be cheaper than anyone else.
This map is handy:
(https://i.imgur.com/JMp5BBC.png)
For Montana and Utah, it's Smiths. For the Northwest, it's Fred Meyer and QFC if you're west of the Cascades.
Interesting thing about this map...All of the Kroger's in Colorado west of the Continental Divide are City Markets, while Krogers east of the Divide and on the Front Range are indeed King Soopers.
Occasionally, they will use the co-branding in some of their advertising, but usually they will have separate ads for either City Market OR King Soopers.
Kind of like Hardee's/Carl's Jr.
Quote from: thenetwork on September 30, 2021, 11:02:48 PM
Kind of like Hardee's/Carl's Jr.
And they have completely different menu items. I expected to see familiar items at Carl's Jr. because we have a lot of Hardee's around here. I expected wrong.
Quote from: hbelkins on October 01, 2021, 11:38:55 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on September 30, 2021, 11:02:48 PM
Kind of like Hardee's/Carl's Jr.
And they have completely different menu items. I expected to see familiar items at Carl's Jr. because we have a lot of Hardee's around here. I expected wrong.
I thought Hardees was distancing themselves from Carl's Jr. because of the latter's many overly sexualized commercials that didn't fit with the more moral Hardee's ideology.
They have the morals to not have sexualized commercials, while also having the morals to underpay their entire staff.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 02, 2021, 05:34:59 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 01, 2021, 11:38:55 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on September 30, 2021, 11:02:48 PM
Kind of like Hardee's/Carl's Jr.
And they have completely different menu items. I expected to see familiar items at Carl's Jr. because we have a lot of Hardee's around here. I expected wrong.
I thought Hardees was distancing themselves from Carl's Jr. because of the latter's many overly sexualized commercials that didn't fit with the more moral Hardee's ideology.
They have the morals to not have sexualized commercials, while also having the morals to underpay their entire staff.
I thought they were the same company.
Quote from: Rothman on October 02, 2021, 09:48:27 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 02, 2021, 05:34:59 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 01, 2021, 11:38:55 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on September 30, 2021, 11:02:48 PM
Kind of like Hardee's/Carl's Jr.
And they have completely different menu items. I expected to see familiar items at Carl's Jr. because we have a lot of Hardee's around here. I expected wrong.
I thought Hardees was distancing themselves from Carl's Jr. because of the latter's many overly sexualized commercials that didn't fit with the more moral Hardee's ideology.
They have the morals to not have sexualized commercials, while also having the morals to underpay their entire staff.
I thought they were the same company.
Yes. Also, Carl's Jr. has a strong presence in Utah. So I'd expect the sleazy ads would create more blowback for Carl's Jr. than Hardees.
Anyway, Carl's Jr. made a public show some time about cutting back on the sleaze.
Quote from: Rothman on October 02, 2021, 09:48:27 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 02, 2021, 05:34:59 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 01, 2021, 11:38:55 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on September 30, 2021, 11:02:48 PM
Kind of like Hardee's/Carl's Jr.
And they have completely different menu items. I expected to see familiar items at Carl's Jr. because we have a lot of Hardee's around here. I expected wrong.
I thought Hardees was distancing themselves from Carl's Jr. because of the latter's many overly sexualized commercials that didn't fit with the more moral Hardee's ideology.
They have the morals to not have sexualized commercials, while also having the morals to underpay their entire staff.
I thought they were the same company.
They are the same company, but by distancing themselves, they meant changing the badging and color scheme to not make it look like Carl's Jr. with the word Hardies instead. Obviously they did the same with the menu.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 04, 2021, 02:13:39 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 02, 2021, 09:48:27 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on October 02, 2021, 05:34:59 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 01, 2021, 11:38:55 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on September 30, 2021, 11:02:48 PM
Kind of like Hardee's/Carl's Jr.
And they have completely different menu items. I expected to see familiar items at Carl's Jr. because we have a lot of Hardee's around here. I expected wrong.
I thought Hardees was distancing themselves from Carl's Jr. because of the latter's many overly sexualized commercials that didn't fit with the more moral Hardee's ideology.
They have the morals to not have sexualized commercials, while also having the morals to underpay their entire staff.
I thought they were the same company.
They are the same company, but by distancing themselves, they meant changing the badging and color scheme to not make it look like Carl's Jr. with the word Hardies instead. Obviously they did the same with the menu.
I can't imagine that approach being profitable. Making one some sort of more adult chain and the other more family-friendly when they don't really geographically overlap anyway just seems to limit your targeted customer base.
Our local Dollar Tree just got self checkouts, with some being designated as both card and cash and others designated as card only.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on October 04, 2021, 03:16:10 PM
Our local Dollar Tree just got self checkouts, with some being designated as both card and cash and others designated as card only.
The idea of a self checkout at Dollar Tree is kind of hilarious to me. How many items you got? 26? Okay, $26 plus tax. You already barely need a cashier as it is.
Obviously Dollar Tree cares
which items you buy for stock keeping purposes, but putting that in the hands of a customer who has no real moral responsibility for ensuring proper stock keeping seems like it could be a problem. It would be tempting to just grab whichever item has the most conveniently-placed barcode and just scan it 26 times, since that would result in the same total as if you scanned all 26 items individually and therefore the store would be correctly compensated.
In England, the "pound shops" have names like Poundland and Pound Town, and they sell vibrators.
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 04, 2021, 04:07:27 PM
The idea of a self checkout at Dollar Tree is kind of hilarious to me. How many items you got? 26? Okay, $26 plus tax. You already barely need a cashier as it is.
Obviously Dollar Tree cares which items you buy for stock keeping purposes, but putting that in the hands of a customer who has no real moral responsibility for ensuring proper stock keeping seems like it could be a problem. It would be tempting to just grab whichever item has the most conveniently-placed barcode and just scan it 26 times, since that would result in the same total as if you scanned all 26 items individually and therefore the store would be correctly compensated.
Food isn't taxed in Massachusetts and probably in every state.
Quote from: 1 on October 04, 2021, 04:11:25 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 04, 2021, 04:07:27 PM
The idea of a self checkout at Dollar Tree is kind of hilarious to me. How many items you got? 26? Okay, $26 plus tax. You already barely need a cashier as it is.
Obviously Dollar Tree cares which items you buy for stock keeping purposes, but putting that in the hands of a customer who has no real moral responsibility for ensuring proper stock keeping seems like it could be a problem. It would be tempting to just grab whichever item has the most conveniently-placed barcode and just scan it 26 times, since that would result in the same total as if you scanned all 26 items individually and therefore the store would be correctly compensated.
Food isn't taxed in Massachusetts and probably in every state.
It's taxed all to hell in Oklahoma.
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 04, 2021, 04:07:27 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on October 04, 2021, 03:16:10 PM
Our local Dollar Tree just got self checkouts, with some being designated as both card and cash and others designated as card only.
The idea of a self checkout at Dollar Tree is kind of hilarious to me. How many items you got? 26? Okay, $26 plus tax. You already barely need a cashier as it is.
Obviously Dollar Tree cares which items you buy for stock keeping purposes, but putting that in the hands of a customer who has no real moral responsibility for ensuring proper stock keeping seems like it could be a problem. It would be tempting to just grab whichever item has the most conveniently-placed barcode and just scan it 26 times, since that would result in the same total as if you scanned all 26 items individually and therefore the store would be correctly compensated.
Dollar Tree will soon be raising the price on some of their items at most of their stores to $1.25 or $1.50. Some stores now also got the Dollar Tree Plus treatment with more to come, with $3 and $5 items.
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 04, 2021, 04:16:46 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 04, 2021, 04:11:25 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 04, 2021, 04:07:27 PM
The idea of a self checkout at Dollar Tree is kind of hilarious to me. How many items you got? 26? Okay, $26 plus tax. You already barely need a cashier as it is.
Obviously Dollar Tree cares which items you buy for stock keeping purposes, but putting that in the hands of a customer who has no real moral responsibility for ensuring proper stock keeping seems like it could be a problem. It would be tempting to just grab whichever item has the most conveniently-placed barcode and just scan it 26 times, since that would result in the same total as if you scanned all 26 items individually and therefore the store would be correctly compensated.
Food isn't taxed in Massachusetts and probably in every state.
It's taxed all to hell in Oklahoma.
1.25% in Illinois for regular grocery, regular sales tax rate for any candy or pop (8.5% here in Will County). Our surrounding states of Wisconsin, Indiana, and Michigan do not tax food items, even candy and pop (10 cent deposit per bottle or can in Michigan).
Quote from: Brandon on October 04, 2021, 04:34:32 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 04, 2021, 04:16:46 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 04, 2021, 04:11:25 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 04, 2021, 04:07:27 PM
The idea of a self checkout at Dollar Tree is kind of hilarious to me. How many items you got? 26? Okay, $26 plus tax. You already barely need a cashier as it is.
Obviously Dollar Tree cares which items you buy for stock keeping purposes, but putting that in the hands of a customer who has no real moral responsibility for ensuring proper stock keeping seems like it could be a problem. It would be tempting to just grab whichever item has the most conveniently-placed barcode and just scan it 26 times, since that would result in the same total as if you scanned all 26 items individually and therefore the store would be correctly compensated.
Food isn't taxed in Massachusetts and probably in every state.
It's taxed all to hell in Oklahoma.
1.25% in Illinois for regular grocery, regular sales tax rate for any candy or pop (8.5% here in Will County). Our surrounding states of Wisconsin, Indiana, and Michigan do not tax food items, even candy and pop (10 cent deposit per bottle or can in Michigan).
Here, everything is taxed at whatever the general sales tax rate is (8.75% in Norman). Doesn't matter what it is. This way, Oklahoma can market itself as a low tax state, which is true for income and property tax...but they make up the revenue on sales tax and things like license plate fees. Regressive? You bet, pardner! But there's one tax-free weekend every August, so that makes up for it, right? ... Right?
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 04, 2021, 04:49:08 PM
Quote from: Brandon on October 04, 2021, 04:34:32 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 04, 2021, 04:16:46 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 04, 2021, 04:11:25 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 04, 2021, 04:07:27 PM
The idea of a self checkout at Dollar Tree is kind of hilarious to me. How many items you got? 26? Okay, $26 plus tax. You already barely need a cashier as it is.
Obviously Dollar Tree cares which items you buy for stock keeping purposes, but putting that in the hands of a customer who has no real moral responsibility for ensuring proper stock keeping seems like it could be a problem. It would be tempting to just grab whichever item has the most conveniently-placed barcode and just scan it 26 times, since that would result in the same total as if you scanned all 26 items individually and therefore the store would be correctly compensated.
Food isn't taxed in Massachusetts and probably in every state.
It's taxed all to hell in Oklahoma.
1.25% in Illinois for regular grocery, regular sales tax rate for any candy or pop (8.5% here in Will County). Our surrounding states of Wisconsin, Indiana, and Michigan do not tax food items, even candy and pop (10 cent deposit per bottle or can in Michigan).
Here, everything is taxed at whatever the general sales tax rate is (8.75% in Norman). Doesn't matter what it is. This way, Oklahoma can market itself as a low tax state, which is true for income and property tax...but they make up the revenue on sales tax and things like license plate fees. Regressive? You bet, pardner! But there's one tax-free weekend every August, so that makes up for it, right? ... Right?
We don't even get that much here in Illinois. High property taxes? You bet. High income tax? Well, it's a flat tax now at 4.25%. High fees? Sure as hell yes. A car registration will set you back $151 a year. They tried to get electric vehicles to have a $1,000 registration per year, but that went over like a lead balloon. Illinois is a very regressive state taxation-wise.
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 04, 2021, 04:49:08 PM
Quote from: Brandon on October 04, 2021, 04:34:32 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 04, 2021, 04:16:46 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 04, 2021, 04:11:25 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 04, 2021, 04:07:27 PM
The idea of a self checkout at Dollar Tree is kind of hilarious to me. How many items you got? 26? Okay, $26 plus tax. You already barely need a cashier as it is.
Obviously Dollar Tree cares which items you buy for stock keeping purposes, but putting that in the hands of a customer who has no real moral responsibility for ensuring proper stock keeping seems like it could be a problem. It would be tempting to just grab whichever item has the most conveniently-placed barcode and just scan it 26 times, since that would result in the same total as if you scanned all 26 items individually and therefore the store would be correctly compensated.
Food isn't taxed in Massachusetts and probably in every state.
It's taxed all to hell in Oklahoma.
1.25% in Illinois for regular grocery, regular sales tax rate for any candy or pop (8.5% here in Will County). Our surrounding states of Wisconsin, Indiana, and Michigan do not tax food items, even candy and pop (10 cent deposit per bottle or can in Michigan).
Here, everything is taxed at whatever the general sales tax rate is (8.75% in Norman). Doesn't matter what it is. This way, Oklahoma can market itself as a low tax state, which is true for income and property tax...but they make up the revenue on sales tax and things like license plate fees. Regressive? You bet, pardner! But there's one tax-free weekend every August, so that makes up for it, right? ... Right?
How is that a regressive tax? People with less money buy less stuff. I can't afford a yacht, so some billionaire that buys one and pays millions of dollars in taxes on that one purchase is more sales tax I would pay in multiple lifetimes.
Quote from: SectorZ on October 04, 2021, 05:16:02 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 04, 2021, 04:49:08 PM
Quote from: Brandon on October 04, 2021, 04:34:32 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 04, 2021, 04:16:46 PM
Quote from: 1 on October 04, 2021, 04:11:25 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 04, 2021, 04:07:27 PM
The idea of a self checkout at Dollar Tree is kind of hilarious to me. How many items you got? 26? Okay, $26 plus tax. You already barely need a cashier as it is.
Obviously Dollar Tree cares which items you buy for stock keeping purposes, but putting that in the hands of a customer who has no real moral responsibility for ensuring proper stock keeping seems like it could be a problem. It would be tempting to just grab whichever item has the most conveniently-placed barcode and just scan it 26 times, since that would result in the same total as if you scanned all 26 items individually and therefore the store would be correctly compensated.
Food isn't taxed in Massachusetts and probably in every state.
It's taxed all to hell in Oklahoma.
1.25% in Illinois for regular grocery, regular sales tax rate for any candy or pop (8.5% here in Will County). Our surrounding states of Wisconsin, Indiana, and Michigan do not tax food items, even candy and pop (10 cent deposit per bottle or can in Michigan).
Here, everything is taxed at whatever the general sales tax rate is (8.75% in Norman). Doesn't matter what it is. This way, Oklahoma can market itself as a low tax state, which is true for income and property tax...but they make up the revenue on sales tax and things like license plate fees. Regressive? You bet, pardner! But there's one tax-free weekend every August, so that makes up for it, right? ... Right?
How is that a regressive tax? People with less money buy less stuff. I can't afford a yacht, so some billionaire that buys one and pays millions of dollars in taxes on that one purchase is more sales tax I would pay in multiple lifetimes.
Egads. The tax is a higher percentage of the poorer person's income...
Arizona doesn't tax food at the state or county level, but local governments are free to tax groceries.
Tennessee taxes food. It's one reason I scratch my head when I hear people talking about how they prefer Tennessee's taxing structure over Kentucky's, where food is not taxed except for certain items such as candy, soft drinks, etc.
(Fun fact -- in Kentucky, a Hershey's chocolate bar is taxed, but a Kit Kat bar isn't, because the wafer included as part of the Kit Kat makes that candy bar qualify for a different tax status.)
Quote from: Pink Jazz on October 04, 2021, 04:29:48 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 04, 2021, 04:07:27 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on October 04, 2021, 03:16:10 PM
Our local Dollar Tree just got self checkouts, with some being designated as both card and cash and others designated as card only.
The idea of a self checkout at Dollar Tree is kind of hilarious to me. How many items you got? 26? Okay, $26 plus tax. You already barely need a cashier as it is.
Obviously Dollar Tree cares which items you buy for stock keeping purposes, but putting that in the hands of a customer who has no real moral responsibility for ensuring proper stock keeping seems like it could be a problem. It would be tempting to just grab whichever item has the most conveniently-placed barcode and just scan it 26 times, since that would result in the same total as if you scanned all 26 items individually and therefore the store would be correctly compensated.
Dollar Tree will soon be raising the price on some of their items at most of their stores to $1.25 or $1.50. Some stores now also got the Dollar Tree Plus treatment with more to come, with $3 and $5 items.
Five Below has already done that. They have a number of items now that are above the $5 threshold. And they also allow self-checkout.
And here I had no idea there were states that straight up didn't tax food. Utah taxes food, but at a significantly lower rate than non-food items. The state food tax is 1.75%, which when combined with the local option (1%) and county option (0.25%) results in a 3% statewide food tax rate.
The general sales tax, on the other hand, has a base rate of 6.1% (same local and county options, but state tax is 4.85%). However, most places have some additional county and local level taxes, and so the actual sales tax rate generally ranges from the mid 6s in more rural parts of the state to low 7s in urban areas to even higher in especially touristy areas. The highest sales tax rate in the state is the 9.05% you'll pay in Park City.
The PA/NJ/DE area is unusual in general when it comes to sales taxes. Both PA and NJ don't tax most clothing and most *unprepared* foods. Basically, if you're buying ingredients, it's not taxed; if you're buying prepared items, you are taxed. And this leads to the weirdness of the system where some prepared foods and candy aren't taxed, but other unprepared foods are.
Then there's DE, which doesn't have a sales tax on anything, although there is a 2% rental tax. Buy a table saw or car? No tax. Rent a table saw or car: Taxed.
I guess we're veering way off topic here, but here's what we have in Washington:
6.5% sales tax and local tax; the highest combined sales tax is in a few Snohomish County cities that reach 10.4% or 10.5%. (Source: MRSC (https://mrsc.org/Home/Explore-Topics/Finance/Revenues/Sales-and-Use-Taxes.aspx)) Fresh food is exempt, but prepared foods and soft drinks are not; there are tons of other exemptions (https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/retail-sales-tax/retail-sales-and-use-tax-exemptions) as well.
With no state income tax, we're left with other regressive sources for just about everything. A major one is vehicle registration (locally known as "car tabs"), which have a base rate of $43.25 and added tiers of $25 to $72 based on weight, plus $75-150 for electric/hybrid vehicles. (Source: Dept of Licensing (https://www.dol.wa.gov/vehicleregistration/docs/VehicleFees.pdf)) There's additional rates on car tabs that are levied by cities or regions for other needs, mostly mass transit (which is also funded with sales tax for the most part); in Seattle, there's a $80 city fee for local transportation projects and the RTA rate for most of the metro area that is calculated based on vehicle depreciation. So for my decade-old SUV, I'd have an additional $68 on top of the $88.25, and then another $80 if I lived in the city proper for a grand total of $236.25 a year.
And the gas tax is $0.678/gal when combined with the federal rate. (Source: Dept of Revenue (https://dor.wa.gov/find-taxes-rates/tax-incentives/deductions/motor-vehicle-fuel-tax-rates))
Quote from: 1 on October 04, 2021, 04:11:25 PM
Food isn't taxed in Massachusetts and probably in every state.
Yeano. Some states tax all food, other states tax prepared food, sugary items, and/or carbonated beverages. Like, in New York, fresh food isn't taxed, but anything prepared, carbonated, or super sugary is taxed.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 04, 2021, 10:24:14 PM
The PA/NJ/DE area is unusual in general when it comes to sales taxes. Both PA and NJ don't tax most clothing and most *unprepared* foods. Basically, if you're buying ingredients, it's not taxed; if you're buying prepared items, you are taxed. And this leads to the weirdness of the system where some prepared foods and candy aren't taxed, but other unprepared foods are.
Then there's DE, which doesn't have a sales tax on anything, although there is a 2% rental tax. Buy a table saw or car? No tax. Rent a table saw or car: Taxed.
Wasn't there a time when PA didn't tax shoes?
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on September 28, 2021, 01:21:59 PM
Yes, my closest Walmart converted to all self-checkout back in the summer. Frankly it makes me mad.
Technically at those stores there is still a manned checkout or two at the service desk.
Believe it or not, at this point, there is no reduction of personnel. The Neighborhood Markets that they did this with often only had one full service lane plus the service desk open except at peak times. There is a level of margin that is almost constant over the decades. The problem is traditionally reductions in staffing affected the cleanliness and shelf stock. IE the store was dirtier and the shelves were not stocked as well.
Fifteen years ago, probably 20% of the non-grocery merchandise in a store was in the back. Today that is less than half that amount with the goal to have it all out by the end of a given day. It takes more bodies stocking, arranging, and cleaning to accomplish this.
Believe it or not, self checkouts actually don't cost jobs and get you out of the store faster. If you want a full service grocery store, go to Kroger, Albertson's, or such.
Quote from: bwana39 on October 05, 2021, 12:05:42 AM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on September 28, 2021, 01:21:59 PM
Yes, my closest Walmart converted to all self-checkout back in the summer. Frankly it makes me mad.
Technically at those stores there is still a manned checkout or two at the service desk.
Believe it or not, at this point, there is no reduction of personnel. The Neighborhood Markets that they did this with often only had one full service lane plus the service desk open except at peak times. There is a level of margin that is almost constant over the decades. The problem is traditionally reductions in staffing affected the cleanliness and shelf stock. IE the store was dirtier and the shelves were not stocked as well.
Fifteen years ago, probably 20% of the non-grocery merchandise in a store was in the back. Today that is less than half that amount with the goal to have it all out by the end of a given day. It takes more bodies stocking, arranging, and cleaning to accomplish this.
Believe it or not, self checkouts actually don't cost jobs and get you out of the store faster. If you want a full service grocery store, go to Kroger, Albertson's, or such.
I choose not on this one. You may not lose them 1:1, but I do still think you lose some.
Quote from: Rothman on October 05, 2021, 06:57:55 AM
Quote from: bwana39 on October 05, 2021, 12:05:42 AM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on September 28, 2021, 01:21:59 PM
Yes, my closest Walmart converted to all self-checkout back in the summer. Frankly it makes me mad.
Technically at those stores there is still a manned checkout or two at the service desk.
Believe it or not, at this point, there is no reduction of personnel. The Neighborhood Markets that they did this with often only had one full service lane plus the service desk open except at peak times. There is a level of margin that is almost constant over the decades. The problem is traditionally reductions in staffing affected the cleanliness and shelf stock. IE the store was dirtier and the shelves were not stocked as well.
Fifteen years ago, probably 20% of the non-grocery merchandise in a store was in the back. Today that is less than half that amount with the goal to have it all out by the end of a given day. It takes more bodies stocking, arranging, and cleaning to accomplish this.
Believe it or not, self checkouts actually don't cost jobs and get you out of the store faster. If you want a full service grocery store, go to Kroger, Albertson's, or such.
I choose not on this one. You may not lose them 1:1, but I do still think you lose some.
Maybe in the long run you lose a few. This was actually done at a time there was a need for a staffing INCREASE needed (shoppers for curbside and in-store pickup). This coupled with with the inability to hire folks even with the increased wage rate may result in minimal if any staffing increases. The reason they are doing this is to divert employees from checkouts to doing necessary cleaning, stocking, and shopping.
Quote from: bwana39 on October 05, 2021, 08:16:11 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 05, 2021, 06:57:55 AM
Quote from: bwana39 on October 05, 2021, 12:05:42 AM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on September 28, 2021, 01:21:59 PM
Yes, my closest Walmart converted to all self-checkout back in the summer. Frankly it makes me mad.
Technically at those stores there is still a manned checkout or two at the service desk.
Believe it or not, at this point, there is no reduction of personnel. The Neighborhood Markets that they did this with often only had one full service lane plus the service desk open except at peak times. There is a level of margin that is almost constant over the decades. The problem is traditionally reductions in staffing affected the cleanliness and shelf stock. IE the store was dirtier and the shelves were not stocked as well.
Fifteen years ago, probably 20% of the non-grocery merchandise in a store was in the back. Today that is less than half that amount with the goal to have it all out by the end of a given day. It takes more bodies stocking, arranging, and cleaning to accomplish this.
Believe it or not, self checkouts actually don't cost jobs and get you out of the store faster. If you want a full service grocery store, go to Kroger, Albertson's, or such.
I choose not on this one. You may not lose them 1:1, but I do still think you lose some.
Maybe in the long run you lose a few. This was actually done at a time there was a need for a staffing INCREASE needed (shoppers for curbside and in-store pickup). This coupled with with the inability to hire folks even with the increased wage rate may result in minimal if any staffing increases. The reason they are doing this is to divert employees from checkouts to doing necessary cleaning, stocking, and shopping.
Sounds like a party line.
Quote from: Rothman on October 05, 2021, 09:07:00 AM
Quote from: bwana39 on October 05, 2021, 08:16:11 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 05, 2021, 06:57:55 AM
Quote from: bwana39 on October 05, 2021, 12:05:42 AM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on September 28, 2021, 01:21:59 PM
Yes, my closest Walmart converted to all self-checkout back in the summer. Frankly it makes me mad.
Technically at those stores there is still a manned checkout or two at the service desk.
Believe it or not, at this point, there is no reduction of personnel. The Neighborhood Markets that they did this with often only had one full service lane plus the service desk open except at peak times. There is a level of margin that is almost constant over the decades. The problem is traditionally reductions in staffing affected the cleanliness and shelf stock. IE the store was dirtier and the shelves were not stocked as well.
Fifteen years ago, probably 20% of the non-grocery merchandise in a store was in the back. Today that is less than half that amount with the goal to have it all out by the end of a given day. It takes more bodies stocking, arranging, and cleaning to accomplish this.
Believe it or not, self checkouts actually don't cost jobs and get you out of the store faster. If you want a full service grocery store, go to Kroger, Albertson's, or such.
I choose not on this one. You may not lose them 1:1, but I do still think you lose some.
Maybe in the long run you lose a few. This was actually done at a time there was a need for a staffing INCREASE needed (shoppers for curbside and in-store pickup). This coupled with with the inability to hire folks even with the increased wage rate may result in minimal if any staffing increases. The reason they are doing this is to divert employees from checkouts to doing necessary cleaning, stocking, and shopping.
Sounds like a party line.
Increased productivity meaned some people moving to a different career ever since the first mechanization kicked in. A pretty boring job, I would think, so it is only to be expected.
Amazon is trying to bring things to a new level with cameras looking into the basket and the total being calculated as you shop along. Not sure if I like that approach, though.
Quote from: kalvado on October 05, 2021, 09:44:23 AMA pretty boring job, I would think, so it is only to be expected.
That is the line that is trotted out every time a company automates a process, or offshores jobs - "oh, don't worry, they're just doing the most boring parts of your job, that will free you up to do more interesting things!" Eventually they teach the robot or the offshore employee how to do your job, and you're out of a job.
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 05, 2021, 10:37:11 AM
Quote from: kalvado on October 05, 2021, 09:44:23 AMA pretty boring job, I would think, so it is only to be expected.
That is the line that is trotted out every time a company automates a process, or offshores jobs - "oh, don't worry, they're just doing the most boring parts of your job, that will free you up to do more interesting things!" Eventually they teach the robot or the offshore employee how to do your job, and you're out of a job.
No, they don't teach the robot how to do anyone's job. It walks along the floor in a set pattern every hour, making sure not to get in people's way. When it finds a spill, or thinks that something is a spill when it's really not, it will alert the entire store over the intercom that something's there and tells the employees to clean it up. It does not clean anything up itself.
At my store, it once infamously thought a beam of light (the sun was at exactly the right angle) was a solid object, refused to cross it, and had its eyes glow red because it thought it was blocked.
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 05, 2021, 10:37:11 AM
Quote from: kalvado on October 05, 2021, 09:44:23 AMA pretty boring job, I would think, so it is only to be expected.
That is the line that is trotted out every time a company automates a process, or offshores jobs - "oh, don't worry, they're just doing the most boring parts of your job, that will free you up to do more interesting things!" Eventually they teach the robot or the offshore employee how to do your job, and you're out of a job.
In the ideal world (and I am looking towards France, for example) such automation should allow for more productivity with less effort, and paying a living wage to more people over fewer hours of work. Doesn't work that way in US for many reasons, though.
Quote from: 1 on October 05, 2021, 10:57:51 AM
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 05, 2021, 10:37:11 AM
Quote from: kalvado on October 05, 2021, 09:44:23 AMA pretty boring job, I would think, so it is only to be expected.
That is the line that is trotted out every time a company automates a process, or offshores jobs - "oh, don't worry, they're just doing the most boring parts of your job, that will free you up to do more interesting things!" Eventually they teach the robot or the offshore employee how to do your job, and you're out of a job.
No, they don't teach the robot how to do anyone's job. It walks along the floor in a set pattern every hour, making sure not to get in people's way. When it finds a spill, or thinks that something is a spill when it's really not, it will alert the entire store over the intercom that something's there and tells the employees to clean it up. It does not clean anything up itself.
At my store, it once infamously thought a beam of light (the sun was at exactly the right angle) was a solid object, refused to cross it, and had its eyes glow red because it thought it was blocked.
Sorry, I was speaking about automation in manufacturing, nothing specific to Walmart or retail. Although I have no doubt that the robots being used in retail now are step 1 towards replacing the human employees.
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 05, 2021, 11:17:03 AM
Although I have no doubt that the robots being used in retail now are step 1 towards replacing the human employees.
Where have I heard this one before? Go yeah... Forever.
Well it's certainly true that robots replace humans, humans are still needed for many other things. Hell, realize that Amazon is very heavily robotic, yet is a huge employer. Many of those employees are warehouse personnel and delivery drivers, but there's also a huge back office of other workers making big bucks. Don't forget about other companies that are selling their merchandise through Amazon, which have their own employees. Or vehicle manufacturers and resellers, that have made a pretty penny selling vans to Amazon.
When focused on one small development of robots, there's actually a lot more people involved. Including humans that work in businesses that make robots.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on October 05, 2021, 11:30:44 AMMany of those employees are warehouse personnel and delivery drivers
...that Amazon is currently working to automate out of existence.
One of the annoying things about self-checkouts is that there are certain items for which the cashier has to verify (or, in practice, override) the customer's age for purchase of certain products. Not just alcohol, either. I recently bought some JB Weld Epoxy and used a self-checkout. The system locked up until the self-checkout overseer could come scan her ID and verify that I was, indeed, over 21. (I'm 59 and certainly look it.) At another time recently, I bought some STP gas treatment and went through a regular checkout (the little Walmart in Jackson, Ky., doesn't have self-checkouts) and the cashier had to manually verify that I was over 21 before he could scan the next item.
Towards the beginning of the pandemic, I walked to Jewel to buy a six-pack of beer, and left my driver's license at home. I scanned it at the self-checkout and a store employee walked over and overrode the warning to check my ID without skipping a beat.
It was...humbling.
Quote from: hbelkins on October 05, 2021, 03:20:14 PM
One of the annoying things about self-checkouts is that there are certain items for which the cashier has to verify (or, in practice, override) the customer's age for purchase of certain products. Not just alcohol, either. I recently bought some JB Weld Epoxy and used a self-checkout. The system locked up until the self-checkout overseer could come scan her ID and verify that I was, indeed, over 21. (I'm 59 and certainly look it.) At another time recently, I bought some STP gas treatment and went through a regular checkout (the little Walmart in Jackson, Ky., doesn't have self-checkouts) and the cashier had to manually verify that I was over 21 before he could scan the next item.
21? Up where I am it's 18 for each of those. Had those silly block checks on the register even when I worked there in the late 90's. Since I was in sporting goods (which has a register), I typically got to ring in a lot of automotive and toys stuff. The fuel injector cleaner boggled my mind because there is nothing in it that isn't in a dozen other things you can buy in the hardware department that doesn't flag. Better was airplane glue, which prompted an age check of 12 years old. As if a 12 year old has the means to prove their age on the spot.
Quote from: abefroman329 on October 05, 2021, 10:37:11 AM
Quote from: kalvado on October 05, 2021, 09:44:23 AMA pretty boring job, I would think, so it is only to be expected.
That is the line that is trotted out every time a company automates a process, or offshores jobs - "oh, don't worry, they're just doing the most boring parts of your job, that will free you up to do more interesting things!" Eventually they teach the robot or the offshore employee how to do your job, and you're out of a job.
Or, if they keep you around, they somehow find something even more boring they want you to do with your newly-freed time.
Quote from: SectorZ on October 05, 2021, 04:07:50 PM
Better was airplane glue, which prompted an age check of 12 years old. As if a 12 year old has the means to prove their age on the spot.
And what would an 11-year-old be doing there trying to check out without their parents around, anyway?
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 06, 2021, 04:02:58 AM
Quote from: SectorZ on October 05, 2021, 04:07:50 PM
Better was airplane glue, which prompted an age check of 12 years old. As if a 12 year old has the means to prove their age on the spot.
And what would an 11-year-old be doing there trying to check out without their parents around, anyway?
Maybe their parents allow them to ride bikes around the city.
Quote from: SectorZ on October 05, 2021, 04:07:50 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 05, 2021, 03:20:14 PM
One of the annoying things about self-checkouts is that there are certain items for which the cashier has to verify (or, in practice, override) the customer's age for purchase of certain products. Not just alcohol, either. I recently bought some JB Weld Epoxy and used a self-checkout. The system locked up until the self-checkout overseer could come scan her ID and verify that I was, indeed, over 21. (I'm 59 and certainly look it.) At another time recently, I bought some STP gas treatment and went through a regular checkout (the little Walmart in Jackson, Ky., doesn't have self-checkouts) and the cashier had to manually verify that I was over 21 before he could scan the next item.
21? Up where I am it's 18 for each of those. Had those silly block checks on the register even when I worked there in the late 90's. Since I was in sporting goods (which has a register), I typically got to ring in a lot of automotive and toys stuff. The fuel injector cleaner boggled my mind because there is nothing in it that isn't in a dozen other things you can buy in the hardware department that doesn't flag. Better was airplane glue, which prompted an age check of 12 years old. As if a 12 year old has the means to prove their age on the spot.
Spray paint is another thing that triggers an age check. Lighters, too.
I don't know if the spray paint thing is done to deter its abuse as an inhalant, or as a means to create graffiti. If the former, I'm a bit surprised bug spray isn't also on the list. "Wasp dope" has become quite popular among the addicts here.
Does anyone remember the old anti-drug commercial from the 70s? "Inhale and sniff, it's aero-plane glue."
Quote from: Rothman on October 05, 2021, 09:07:00 AM
Quote from: bwana39 on October 05, 2021, 08:16:11 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 05, 2021, 06:57:55 AM
Quote from: bwana39 on October 05, 2021, 12:05:42 AM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on September 28, 2021, 01:21:59 PM
Yes, my closest Walmart converted to all self-checkout back in the summer. Frankly it makes me mad.
Technically at those stores there is still a manned checkout or two at the service desk.
Believe it or not, at this point, there is no reduction of personnel. The Neighborhood Markets that they did this with often only had one full service lane plus the service desk open except at peak times. There is a level of margin that is almost constant over the decades. The problem is traditionally reductions in staffing affected the cleanliness and shelf stock. IE the store was dirtier and the shelves were not stocked as well.
Fifteen years ago, probably 20% of the non-grocery merchandise in a store was in the back. Today that is less than half that amount with the goal to have it all out by the end of a given day. It takes more bodies stocking, arranging, and cleaning to accomplish this.
Believe it or not, self checkouts actually don't cost jobs and get you out of the store faster. If you want a full service grocery store, go to Kroger, Albertson's, or such.
I choose not on this one. You may not lose them 1:1, but I do still think you lose some.
Maybe in the long run you lose a few. This was actually done at a time there was a need for a staffing INCREASE needed (shoppers for curbside and in-store pickup). This coupled with with the inability to hire folks even with the increased wage rate may result in minimal if any staffing increases. The reason they are doing this is to divert employees from checkouts to doing necessary cleaning, stocking, and shopping.
Sounds like a party line.
I have been gone from Wal-Mart for a dozen years. It really is the way it works. Staffing cost per dollar of sales per square foot is virtually unchanged since the early days of the supercenters. As far as that goes, it was pretty consistent with about half of the stores before that. There was a significant rise in the early days of the supercenter because Walmart was pretty much clueless about running grocery stores. The other half of the stores before the advent of Supercenters are what we perceive WalMart to be today. A handful of managers got rich and the hourly employees got virtually nothing. I am not going to suggest that the GM of a given store doesn't still make an out of balance salary and bonus. They do. At the same time the assistants don't fare as poorly as they did 15 years or so ago. Hourly wages have increased too. The GM's and Co-Managers increases have not kept pace with the lesser wages while the sales per square foot have increased if purely by price increases. Getting rid of price matching was a bigger windfall than they ever suggested. Probably half of the price matching was based on three unfair precepts. 1) Stores offering prices on limited quantities of items. Sometimes just to spite WalMart. 2) Sales were on items of different qualities of product, especially meat and produce. 3) Stores offering sales on items that are labeled pretty much identically but are really are not. A great example is those little lunch entrees with the crackers, cheese, and pieces of cold cut meat. The ones at some places have 4 of each item. The ones at WalMart have 5. I certainly am not in the business of defending WalMart.
Their desire to offer the lowest priced item has decimated the US consumer goods manufacturing segment. I could also argue that most of the time, they didn't make the first move. When they did however they closed down plants because the US manufacturers couldn't meet the import prices or even keep the WalMart prices below the competition.
Never from a self checkout, but I have been asked for ID when buying Welch's Sparkling Rosé Grape Juice since it looks like a bottle of champagne.
My "Neighborhood Market" still has manned checkouts. If I need something I can't get anywhere else, I go there and use the manned checkout.
Quote from: SkyPesos on September 28, 2021, 11:55:10 AM
Sort of frustrating that they're still not accepting Google/Apple pay.
They never will. I worked for Wal Mart they consider Apple pay a competitor.
I commented about this to my mother when shopping with her the other day. Her Walmart-branded CapitalOne Mastercard has an NFC chip, but Walmart itself has never upgraded the debit terminals on their registers to accept the contactless function. The basic reason why is simple: NFC is the same core technology used by Apple Pay and Google Pay. Walmart was a member of the CurrentC system that was initially a competitor to Apple Pay in the mobile payments sector. When CurrentC flopped, Walmart started their own proprietary app rather than let in the competition in the mobile payments sector, among other reasons.
Quote from: bulldog1979 on October 08, 2021, 03:11:08 AM
I commented about this to my mother when shopping with her the other day. Her Walmart-branded CapitalOne Mastercard has an NFC chip, but Walmart itself has never upgraded the debit terminals on their registers to accept the contactless function. The basic reason why is simple: NFC is the same core technology used by Apple Pay and Google Pay. Walmart was a member of the CurrentC system that was initially a competitor to Apple Pay in the mobile payments sector. When CurrentC flopped, Walmart started their own proprietary app rather than let in the competition in the mobile payments sector, among other reasons.
Walmart doesn't run most of the debit cards through the standard debit or credit card channels. Most of them are done using agreements to do them directly with the bank that issued them. In a lot of cases, they are paying around 1% for processing versus the industry standard of 2.5-3.5%
Just this morning, I noticed that our local Walmart in Hillsborough, North Carolina has gone back to cash at all self-checkout kiosks. Off-and-on for the past six months or so, they've been down to only one kiosk with cash. I don't recall that they ever went to fully credit only, but the nearby Walmart in Mebane did go cashless.
I try to avoid crowded store times, but the last two times I went to the Hillsborough store in the afternoon, all of the kiosks were closed near the pharmacy entrance. Last week, that caused such long lines that it looked like Christmas in early October. I have a haunting suspicion that this is due to staffing issues.
Quote from: GaryV on October 06, 2021, 06:25:56 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on October 06, 2021, 04:02:58 AM
Quote from: SectorZ on October 05, 2021, 04:07:50 PM
Better was airplane glue, which prompted an age check of 12 years old. As if a 12 year old has the means to prove their age on the spot.
And what would an 11-year-old be doing there trying to check out without their parents around, anyway?
Maybe their parents allow them to ride bikes around the city.
Don't tell Highway Star.
And yeah I can confirm tons of kids in my town used to ride bikes to Walmart to buy stuff either buy themselves or in groups. Despite them having to ride on a bit of a heinous stretch of MA 38 for cycling. I used to gallivant all around my town at that age with friends, though no Walmart yet at that point.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on October 06, 2021, 08:09:05 PM
Never from a self checkout, but I have been asked for ID when buying Welch's Sparkling Rosé Grape Juice since it looks like a bottle of champagne.
Usually the register would prompt the cashier to see and/or enter ID. The look of the bottle shouldn't be a trigger for an ID check!
I went to the Walmart Supercentre in Tsawwassen, BC today. They do not accept Walmart Pay, as I'm used to in the US, but they do accept tap to pay. So quite the opposite of the US.