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Author Topic: US 93 In Arizona Progress  (Read 17542 times)

sparker

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Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2020, 05:10:12 PM »

Something tells me that I-11 will be finished to Kingman before the parts south to Phoenix/Tucson/Nogales/wherever are. In this case, it would make sense, especially considering the uncertainty of its route past Wickenburg.

That's probably a good assessment; the section from Kingman to the NV line hosts not only traffic originating in southern AZ but E-W traffic from I-40 as well -- it's doing "double duty" in that regard, particularly with regards to commercial transport.   It's pretty clear that ADOT has a game plan for the remainder of the route, at least the part that will basically overlay US 93 -- build as much as they can out to at least Interstate geometry but without grade separations -- job #1 in outlying areas.  The next step likely won't be taken until the alignment between Wickenburg and Phoenix and/or I-10 is finalized; that would include step-by-step buildout to full Interstate standards as well as doing something about Wikieup that'll satisfy I-standards but won't result in the town's demise.  Considering that the I-11 designation only happened eight years ago (infancy by current corridor development standards), the fact that much of US 93 is now a much safer 4-lane facility -- and there's more of the same to come to fill in the gaps -- speaks volumes.  But with the impending I-40/I-11 interchange in Kingman, it would be expected that more attention would be paid (or diverted) to Kingman-NV simply because it effectively functions as its own "SIU" independent of any segment to the south.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2020, 11:55:54 AM »

I'm not 100% convinced whether Interstate 11 will ever make it to Tucson, let alone Nogales. Perhaps Interstate 11 will eventually be built to the Phoenix metropolitan area, and the DOT might leave the southern terminus there.
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sparker

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Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2020, 01:21:32 PM »

I'm not 100% convinced whether Interstate 11 will ever make it to Tucson, let alone Nogales. Perhaps Interstate 11 will eventually be built to the Phoenix metropolitan area, and the DOT might leave the southern terminus there.

IMO it'll likely get to Casa Grande to serve as a Phoenix bypass -- but since it's largely duplicative south of there around Tucson to the border, those plans will eventually be eliminated.  Part of the impetus for those was longstanding frustration regarding freeways in the Tucson area with the "solution" being an outer I-11 western bypass.  But the need for extra capacity Tucson-Nogales is obviated by the fact that OEM production facilities south of the border have largely been supplanted by similar Asian (principally Chinese) production, particularly in the area of consumer products.  With that no longer a factor, the expense and disruption of building a duplicate freeway from Nogales to Casa Grande will in all likelihood be enough to sink the conceptual project.  Also, the "Sonoran" corridor from I-19 east to I-10 is likely to deflect much of the efforts of ADOT and local freeway enthusiasts for quite a while. 
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DJStephens

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Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2020, 08:00:58 PM »

I'm not 100% convinced whether Interstate 11 will ever make it to Tucson, let alone Nogales. Perhaps Interstate 11 will eventually be built to the Phoenix metropolitan area, and the DOT might leave the southern terminus there.

Am normally pro construction, but anything south of Phoenix metro for I-11 is simply duplication and waste.   Was under the impression that was the purpose of six laning the entire I-10 corridor between Tucson and Phoenix, anyway.   
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sparker

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Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2020, 06:07:18 AM »

I'm not 100% convinced whether Interstate 11 will ever make it to Tucson, let alone Nogales. Perhaps Interstate 11 will eventually be built to the Phoenix metropolitan area, and the DOT might leave the southern terminus there.

Am normally pro construction, but anything south of Phoenix metro for I-11 is simply duplication and waste.   Was under the impression that was the purpose of six laning the entire I-10 corridor between Tucson and Phoenix, anyway.   

Since expansion of I-10 through the Gila reservation seems to be stuck in neutral, a I-11 western Phoenix bypass (Casa Grande-Buckeye-Wickenburg) may well serve as a "relief route" -- functioning as a virtual "x10" southern bypass/shortcut of greater PHX.  While improving the Phoenix-Tucson direct route would, of course, be optimal, at least -- if the I-10/Gila impasse persists, a I-11 swinging around the southern 'burbs would ostensibly redirect commercial I-10 "pass through" traffic.  But seeing as how an actual alignment for the proposed facility has yet to be finalized, it's entirely possible that I-10 expansion could be done well before I-11 makes it that far south. 
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Sonic99

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Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2020, 02:51:24 PM »

I'm not 100% convinced whether Interstate 11 will ever make it to Tucson, let alone Nogales. Perhaps Interstate 11 will eventually be built to the Phoenix metropolitan area, and the DOT might leave the southern terminus there.

Am normally pro construction, but anything south of Phoenix metro for I-11 is simply duplication and waste.   Was under the impression that was the purpose of six laning the entire I-10 corridor between Tucson and Phoenix, anyway.   

Since expansion of I-10 through the Gila reservation seems to be stuck in neutral, a I-11 western Phoenix bypass (Casa Grande-Buckeye-Wickenburg) may well serve as a "relief route" -- functioning as a virtual "x10" southern bypass/shortcut of greater PHX.  While improving the Phoenix-Tucson direct route would, of course, be optimal, at least -- if the I-10/Gila impasse persists, a I-11 swinging around the southern 'burbs would ostensibly redirect commercial I-10 "pass through" traffic.  But seeing as how an actual alignment for the proposed facility has yet to be finalized, it's entirely possible that I-10 expansion could be done well before I-11 makes it that far south.

I believe that ADOT and the Gila River tribe have been working over the past year or so on finally getting improvements to I-10 done. Currently open for public comments.

http://i10wildhorsepasscorridor.com/
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sparker

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Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2020, 04:59:58 PM »

I'm not 100% convinced whether Interstate 11 will ever make it to Tucson, let alone Nogales. Perhaps Interstate 11 will eventually be built to the Phoenix metropolitan area, and the DOT might leave the southern terminus there.

Am normally pro construction, but anything south of Phoenix metro for I-11 is simply duplication and waste.   Was under the impression that was the purpose of six laning the entire I-10 corridor between Tucson and Phoenix, anyway.   

Since expansion of I-10 through the Gila reservation seems to be stuck in neutral, a I-11 western Phoenix bypass (Casa Grande-Buckeye-Wickenburg) may well serve as a "relief route" -- functioning as a virtual "x10" southern bypass/shortcut of greater PHX.  While improving the Phoenix-Tucson direct route would, of course, be optimal, at least -- if the I-10/Gila impasse persists, a I-11 swinging around the southern 'burbs would ostensibly redirect commercial I-10 "pass through" traffic.  But seeing as how an actual alignment for the proposed facility has yet to be finalized, it's entirely possible that I-10 expansion could be done well before I-11 makes it that far south.

I believe that ADOT and the Gila River tribe have been working over the past year or so on finally getting improvements to I-10 done. Currently open for public comments.

http://i10wildhorsepasscorridor.com/

Expanding I-10 to at least 6 overall lanes would be quite helpful for interregional travel.  Although a I-11 facility between Buckeye and Casa Grande would function as a Phoenix metro bypass for I-10 traffic, much of the push for its development along that segment has come from Maricopa-area developers who desire to have freeway access to the various housing tracts and commercial zones they're attempting to proffer.  Fortunately, they don't much care if it extends south of Casa Grande as long as it connects with I-8 or I-10 at the southeast end and I-10 and the future northward I-11 at the other end.  But a lot of the pressure -- if not rationale -- for I-11 anywhere south of I-10 near Buckeye -- will dissipate once I-10 is in the process of expansion; development of that segment will likely depend upon the continued influence of land developers with state and local AZ agencies. 
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kdk

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Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2020, 07:02:17 PM »

I was under that impression but after driving between Phoenix and Tucson a  few times recently, I see how there is a future need for a bypass even with an improved I-10.
Now I-10 is 6 lanes all the way from the north end of Casa Grande through Tucson.  It's already a heavily traveled route, especially with truck traffic, and felt like a fourth lane is already necessary at times.

This is with current development in the area.  With the future continued suburbanization coming from both directions, as the towns along the route like Eloy, Red Rock and Casa Grande expand this route will become more like an urban freeway, serving the local areas as well as the cross country traffic.  A bypass to the west would allow the cross country traffic to bypass this future congested area.  It may not be truly needed for 20 years but its time to at least talk about it now.
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Konza

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Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2020, 06:42:40 PM »

Whatever happens here, I would like to see SR 85 fully upgraded to Interstate standards and an Interstate number assigned to the route.  If I-11's south terminus is at I-8 or the border at Lukeville, so be it.  If the upgraded SR 85 is a 3DI spur route off of I-8, I-10, or I-11, that would work for me, too.

I see no reason to have parallel Interstate highways from Casa Grande to the Marana area.  Widening I-10 should be sufficient.

I could, however, see the utility of a western bypass of Tucson that would cross I-19 south of the city and swing around and reconnect with I-10 in the SR 83/Houghton Road area, and I understand studies have been conducted at least for the section east of I-19.  Such a road could provide an alternative for long-haul international truck traffic that now goes through central Tucson, and that would be a good thing.  However, with the ongoing aversion to freeway construction in the Tucson area and the city's progressive politics, it's hard to envision this happening anytime soon.
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Rothman

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Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2020, 12:55:03 AM »

I can't believe people are talking about AZ 85 being upgraded.  My father lived in Ajo and Lukeville when he was a kid and the last time I was down there (early 1990s), two lanes was plenty. :D
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sparker

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Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2020, 04:08:01 AM »

I can't believe people are talking about AZ 85 being upgraded.  My father lived in Ajo and Lukeville when he was a kid and the last time I was down there (early 1990s), two lanes was plenty. :D

I think that the only section of AZ 85 under present consideration for upgrades is that between Gila Bend (I-8) and Buckeye (I-10); much of that is already expressway with some provision for future interchanges.  Since that is the effective "direct route" between the two major metros of Phoenix and San Diego, it's ripe for expansion -- IMO should have been brought out to Interstate standards in the late '80's or early '90's.  South of Gila Bend the traffic is much more sparse, consisting of local traffic to and from Ajo and recreational/fishing traffic to and from the border crossing and the Gulf of California beyond.  At present, no need to expand that facility beyond a few passing lanes here and there. 
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DJStephens

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Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
« Reply #36 on: December 04, 2020, 07:34:01 AM »

I can't believe people are talking about AZ 85 being upgraded.  My father lived in Ajo and Lukeville when he was a kid and the last time I was down there (early 1990s), two lanes was plenty. :D

I think that the only section of AZ 85 under present consideration for upgrades is that between Gila Bend (I-8) and Buckeye (I-10); much of that is already expressway with some provision for future interchanges.  Since that is the effective "direct route" between the two major metros of Phoenix and San Diego, it's ripe for expansion -- IMO should have been brought out to Interstate standards in the late '80's or early '90's.  South of Gila Bend the traffic is much more sparse, consisting of local traffic to and from Ajo and recreational/fishing traffic to and from the border crossing and the Gulf of California beyond.  At present, no need to expand that facility beyond a few passing lanes here and there.

It goes back even farther than that.  AZ state route 85 between Interstates 8 and 10 was proposed as an Interstate connector in the late sixties.  As one of the "first" round of chargeable additions, 1968 to best of belief.   
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Konza

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Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
« Reply #37 on: December 04, 2020, 04:11:16 PM »

South of Gila Bend the traffic is much more sparse, consisting of local traffic to and from Ajo and recreational/fishing traffic to and from the border crossing and the Gulf of California beyond.  At present, no need to expand that facility beyond a few passing lanes here and there.

At the risk of getting political here, if AZ 85 is widened (or upgraded to Interstate standards) south of Gila Bend, Mexico should pay for it.
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sparker

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Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2020, 08:32:35 PM »

I can't believe people are talking about AZ 85 being upgraded.  My father lived in Ajo and Lukeville when he was a kid and the last time I was down there (early 1990s), two lanes was plenty. :D

I think that the only section of AZ 85 under present consideration for upgrades is that between Gila Bend (I-8) and Buckeye (I-10); much of that is already expressway with some provision for future interchanges.  Since that is the effective "direct route" between the two major metros of Phoenix and San Diego, it's ripe for expansion -- IMO should have been brought out to Interstate standards in the late '80's or early '90's.  South of Gila Bend the traffic is much more sparse, consisting of local traffic to and from Ajo and recreational/fishing traffic to and from the border crossing and the Gulf of California beyond.  At present, no need to expand that facility beyond a few passing lanes here and there.

It goes back even farther than that.  AZ state route 85 between Interstates 8 and 10 was proposed as an Interstate connector in the late sixties.  As one of the "first" round of chargeable additions, 1968 to best of belief.   

That was still signed as US 80 back in '68; it was still a rural 2-lane facility for the most part until well after 80 was decommissioned and AZ 85 extended north over its former alignment.  Until I-10 was completed and the direct connector (including the semi-directional interchange) to AZ 85 was built, with the latter realigned over the connector, AZ 85 was signed over the original US 80 route into downtown Phoenix.   The proposed Interstate connector was one of the corridors "washed out" when the 1968 additions were pared down to 1500 miles from the original proposed 4500.  No indication as to what it would have been designated, since numbers for even the corridors that "made the final cut" weren't selected until a year or so later.   
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DJStephens

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Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2020, 08:10:27 AM »

I was under that impression but after driving between Phoenix and Tucson a  few times recently, I see how there is a future need for a bypass even with an improved I-10.
Now I-10 is 6 lanes all the way from the north end of Casa Grande through Tucson.  It's already a heavily traveled route, especially with truck traffic, and felt like a fourth lane is already necessary at times.

This is with current development in the area.  With the future continued suburbanization coming from both directions, as the towns along the route like Eloy, Red Rock and Casa Grande expand this route will become more like an urban freeway, serving the local areas as well as the cross country traffic.  A bypass to the west would allow the cross country traffic to bypass this future congested area.  It may not be truly needed for 20 years but its time to at least talk about it now.

Would agree that an eight lane cross section would be useful in the Casa Grande environs.  The most recent "add a lane" appears to have been a cheap job of widening to the inside.  Also was of opinion that the ancient trumpet of the I-8 interchange was to be replaced.  Instead, it lives on. 
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Roadwarriors79

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Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2020, 03:02:05 PM »

About 40 miles to go before all of US 93 in Arizona is widened.

https://azdot.gov/adot-news/us-93-widened-four-lanes-north-wikieup
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sparker

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Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2020, 06:57:11 PM »

About 40 miles to go before all of US 93 in Arizona is widened.

https://azdot.gov/adot-news/us-93-widened-four-lanes-north-wikieup

I still wonder how ADOT is planning on handling Wikieup itself.  A "pure" bypass, likely with a "biz route" directional exit/entrance at either end and one interchange in the middle would likely decimate any on-road business unless funds were provided the on-road businesses to relocate to the new facility.  It would seem that there just might be room to put 4 lanes (with a narrow/K-rail median and the absolute minimum shoulders to meet Interstate criteria) plus 2 lanes of TX-style directional frontage road on either side could be done with minimal structure demolition or moving (the saving grace of small towns like this is that buildings tend to be widely spaced and set back from the roadway).  Throw in an overpass or two for cross-town access plus making roadside facililties on the opposite side of the freeway accessible from either direction, and a "mini-Texas" situation might be feasible.  Preferably, the freeway should be at-grade, with a few slip ramps, for visual purposes -- accompanied by Big Blue Signs with restaurant/refueling/convenience store listings on them.  Also ADOT should install EV recharging facilities within the fuel stations (we call 'em "Tesla plugs" around here! -- IMO, this is something that should be a feature of all new "aftermarket" Interstates).  Basically, seeing as how Wikieup is the only piece of civilization between Wickenburg and Kingman, it would behoove ADOT planners to maximize localized access here by putting a little thought into how the freeway will interface with what the town needs to remain viable.  And if multiple slip ramps mean I-11 speed will reduce to 55 or so through town, that's simply the "cost of doing business" in this instance.   
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KeithE4Phx

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Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2020, 08:31:43 PM »

I still wonder how ADOT is planning on handling Wikieup itself.  A "pure" bypass, likely with a "biz route" directional exit/entrance at either end and one interchange in the middle would likely decimate any on-road business unless funds were provided the on-road businesses to relocate to the new facility.  It would seem that there just might be room to put 4 lanes (with a narrow/K-rail median and the absolute minimum shoulders to meet Interstate criteria) plus 2 lanes of TX-style directional frontage road on either side could be done with minimal structure demolition or moving (the saving grace of small towns like this is that buildings tend to be widely spaced and set back from the roadway).  Throw in an overpass or two for cross-town access plus making roadside facililties on the opposite side of the freeway accessible from either direction, and a "mini-Texas" situation might be feasible.  Preferably, the freeway should be at-grade, with a few slip ramps, for visual purposes -- accompanied by Big Blue Signs with restaurant/refueling/convenience store listings on them.  Also ADOT should install EV recharging facilities within the fuel stations (we call 'em "Tesla plugs" around here! -- IMO, this is something that should be a feature of all new "aftermarket" Interstates).  Basically, seeing as how Wikieup is the only piece of civilization between Wickenburg and Kingman, it would behoove ADOT planners to maximize localized access here by putting a little thought into how the freeway will interface with what the town needs to remain viable.  And if multiple slip ramps mean I-11 speed will reduce to 55 or so through town, that's simply the "cost of doing business" in this instance.

Wikieup is a wide spot in the road with one good souvenir shop/convenience store, two overpriced gas stations across the highway (both of whom charge $1-1.50 per gallon above market price), and a couple of decent restaurants at the north end of town.  Most of whatever else used to exist along US 93 has long been abandoned.

There's no way I can see ADOT not routing I-11 on a bypass around what's left of that town (population about 300).  I stop there on  my way to and from Vegas or Laughlin once or twice a year, and outside of the souvenir shop and a good Chicago-style hot dog stand, the rest is 100% expendable. 

Build the bypass and connect the current 93 to it on both sides of town.  Upgrading the current 93 through town to interstate standards is just not happening.  I'll be shocked if anyone outside of local residents even propose it.
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KeithE4Phx

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Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2020, 08:35:52 PM »

About 40 miles to go before all of US 93 in Arizona is widened.

https://azdot.gov/adot-news/us-93-widened-four-lanes-north-wikieup

So what's left?  The ramps to I-40, a Wikieup bypass, and the Joshua Tree Pkwy section NW of Wickenburg?
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splashflash

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Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2020, 12:24:38 AM »

About 40 miles to go before all of US 93 in Arizona is widened.

https://azdot.gov/adot-news/us-93-widened-four-lanes-north-wikieup

So what's left?  The ramps to I-40, a Wikieup bypass, and the Joshua Tree Pkwy section NW of Wickenburg?

And about 3 more miles at Cane Springs, between Wikieup and I-40.  https://azdot.gov/sites/default/files/2019/08/us-93-corridor-map.pdf

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sparker

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Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2020, 01:07:02 AM »


Wikieup is a wide spot in the road with one good souvenir shop/convenience store, two overpriced gas stations across the highway (both of whom charge $1-1.50 per gallon above market price), and a couple of decent restaurants at the north end of town.  Most of whatever else used to exist along US 93 has long been abandoned.

There's no way I can see ADOT not routing I-11 on a bypass around what's left of that town (population about 300).  I stop there on  my way to and from Vegas or Laughlin once or twice a year, and outside of the souvenir shop and a good Chicago-style hot dog stand, the rest is 100% expendable. 

Build the bypass and connect the current 93 to it on both sides of town.  Upgrading the current 93 through town to interstate standards is just not happening.  I'll be shocked if anyone outside of local residents even propose it.

To me, a good Chicago-style hot dog stand sounds like, in itself, a good reason to preserve a town otherwise "out in the sticks".  Add a couple of decent restaurants and you have a nice place to stop for lunch.  But seriously -- maybe I'm sounding a bit overly empathetic here, but I've seen towns without an additional income basis (such as local agriculture or institutions such as small colleges, etc.) wither and die when bypassed because planners deemed them less than worthy (Canyonville and Gold Hill, both off I-5 in southern Oregon, San Miguel on US 101 in CA, etc.).  Things like that fan the fires of the anti-mobility crowd like nothing else -- innocent folks trying to eke out a living suddenly being functionally displaced by a facility designed to shoot travelers past them at 75 mph!  If I-11 brings a significant overall increase in traffic, potentially the gas stations will be able to lower their prices (and, yeah, I'd consider them to be assholes if they didn't!) with additional sales volume -- so the "vulture" aspect of the town's current status may well dissipate with the coming of the freeway.  But I'm sure ADOT will weigh the cost of ROW acquisition for a bypass versus acquiring the front yards of the adjoining in-town properties.  But I certainly don't share the viewpoint that a town is, by virtue of a small population and physical "outlier" status, intrinsically expendable.   They depend upon US 93 traffic for their livelihood; the "greater good" surely doesn't countenance trashing that for a minute or two of extra driving time if one doesn't make a stop. 

Especially if one can get a real Chicago dog there, complete with a Vienna brand sausage, a healthy dose of celery salt, and German-style mustard! 
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Bobby5280

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Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2020, 11:30:01 PM »

Considering what it costs per mile to build Interstate highways it might potentially be less expensive to build I-11 thru Wikieup on the existing US-93 alignment. A bypass going around Wikieup might add as much as an additional mile to the route. That ain't cheap.

Most of the existing properties in Wikieup are on the West side of US-93. Very few are on the East side. The tightest spot is on the South side of town between the Trading Post Motel and the convenience store on the opposite side of the road. There is about 150' of useable ROW between the two properties. Since a freeway exit would be needed for county road 131 nearby the I-11 main lanes could be elevated on single pier bridge structures. That would allow the main lanes to overhang above frontage roads running underneath. Immediately South of the Trading Post Motel the I-11 main lanes can go back to grade, flanked by frontage roads.

Some properties would have to be bulldozed in this scenario, but a bypass would effectively turn Wikieup into a ghost town. I don't think any of the existing service businesses would survive being bypassed. Overall, the prospect of building I-11 straight thru Wikieup looks like an easier project to complete than the I-69C upgrade of US-281 through the middle of Falfurrias, TX.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2020, 12:46:23 PM »

Heh, would get Nothing get a exit on I-11 I wonder?   What about Santa Claus?
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KeithE4Phx

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Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
« Reply #48 on: December 12, 2020, 02:15:06 PM »

Heh, would get Nothing get a exit on I-11 I wonder?   What about Santa Claus?

There's nothing left in Nothing but an old sign, a bank of solar panels, and a tall cellphone tower.  Even the sign is ready to fall.  Probably won't get an exit, but maybe an at-grade private access road.

As far as Santa Claus goes, my guess is that there'll be frontage roads built on each side, with exits at Grasshopper Jct/Chloride (CR 125) and/or Mineral Park Rd. (CR 255).
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: US 93 In Arizona Progress
« Reply #49 on: December 12, 2020, 02:31:48 PM »

Heh, would get Nothing get a exit on I-11 I wonder?   What about Santa Claus?

There's nothing left in Nothing but an old sign, a bank of solar panels, and a tall cellphone tower.  Even the sign is ready to fall.  Probably won't get an exit, but maybe an at-grade private access road.

As far as Santa Claus goes, my guess is that there'll be frontage roads built on each side, with exits at Grasshopper Jct/Chloride (CR 125) and/or Mineral Park Rd. (CR 255).

To that end Iím curious what will happen to the value of both properties?  My speculation with Nothing is that it will just stay as worthless as it presently is.  Santa Claus on the other hand is close enough to a population center that it may finally find a buyer interested in building a service station.
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