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Freeways that aren't really a freeway

Started by tolbs17, July 22, 2021, 07:08:52 PM

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tolbs17

There's a share the road sign here I wish there was a sidewalk and a bike lane so they could remove that.

This has no cable barrier so therefore this is not really a freeway. The speed limit is not even 65 or 70.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.406575,-76.9285779,3a,75y,299h,85.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdl6YewlOzVkt9LkRcVcwNA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.406575,-76.9285779,3a,75y,210.94h,76.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdl6YewlOzVkt9LkRcVcwNA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

You have a side street and an extremely small median as well.

Wonder why they have a side street here!


silverback1065

There are several interstates that lack cable barriers.

tolbs17

Quote from: silverback1065 on July 22, 2021, 07:15:36 PM
There are several interstates that lack cable barriers.
If the median is large enough then it's usually not a big deal.

Example

SkyPesos

A definition of a freeway is simply a fully controlled access highway. Nothing about which size the median is, and what the median is made of.

So for some real examples in this thread, something that Google maps marks as a freeway, but you find an at grade interchange in that freeway section, could qualify.

tolbs17

Quote from: SkyPesos on July 22, 2021, 07:18:14 PM
A definition of a freeway is simply a fully controlled access highway. Nothing about which size the median is, and what the median is made of.

So for some real examples in this thread, something that Google maps marks as a freeway, but you find an at grade interchange in that freeway section, could qualify.
See OpenStreetMaps which lists a lot of major arterials as a freeway like here, and here.

sprjus4

^ The Goldsboro example... I'd say the original bypass is enough to be called a freeway. It has a couple RIROs, but they never break the median. More like a substandard off and on ramp than anything.

As for the CBBT... it could technically be considered a freeway, but I can see where it wouldn't be considered one. Full control of access and an interchange on the southern end.

tolbs17

#6
Quote from: sprjus4 on July 22, 2021, 07:41:10 PM
As for the CBBT... it could technically be considered a freeway, but I can see where it wouldn't be considered one. Full control of access and an interchange on the southern end.
Once they both have two tunnels,  then it's for sure a freeway.

Max Rockatansky

CA 18 from the City Limit of San Bernardino to CA 138.  It is signed by Caltrans like a freeway but at best is a surface expressway. 

hotdogPi

I-587, New York. It doesn't violate Interstate construction standards, but it has no interchanges unlike your typical freeway.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

tolbs17

Quote from: 1 on July 22, 2021, 07:45:34 PM
I-587, New York. It doesn't violate Interstate construction standards, but it has no interchanges unlike your typical freeway.
I-180 aswell.

Wonder why they were even designed there in the first place.

SkyPesos

Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 07:52:38 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 22, 2021, 07:45:34 PM
I-587, New York. It doesn't violate Interstate construction standards, but it has no interchanges unlike your typical freeway.
I-180 aswell.

Wonder why they were even designed there in the first place.
Unlike I-587, I-180 (WY) isn't even a freeway in the first place.

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: 1 on July 22, 2021, 07:45:34 PM
I-587, New York. It doesn't violate Interstate construction standards, but it has no interchanges unlike your typical freeway.

This brings about a question that I've had for a long time--how long between at grade intersections does a road have to go to be considered a freeway. This segment is just over a mile.

In Elkhart County, IN, CR 17 goes just over 3 miles between access points but with no interchanges. Is that a freeway?
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

tolbs17

Ha! Another onehere! No rumble strips with a side crossing to the right. Definitely not a real freeway.

SkyPesos

Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 08:10:52 PM
Ha! Another onehere! No rumble strips with a side crossing to the right. Definitely not a real freeway.
Do RIROs count as controlled access?

tolbs17

Quote from: SkyPesos on July 22, 2021, 09:16:21 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 08:10:52 PM
Ha! Another onehere! No rumble strips with a side crossing to the right. Definitely not a real freeway.
Do RIROs count as controlled access?
Talking about this. No.

Roadgeekteen

God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

SkyPesos

Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 10:08:37 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on July 22, 2021, 09:16:21 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 08:10:52 PM
Ha! Another onehere! No rumble strips with a side crossing to the right. Definitely not a real freeway.
Do RIROs count as controlled access?
Talking about this. No.
Maybe not specifically that one, but more fancier ones like the chain on US 50 in MD east of the Chesapeake Bay Bridge, which have exit numbers and are marked as part of a freeway on Google Maps.

And for one without a physical gore on an interstate, here's one on I-75 SB in Cincinnati.

tolbs17

NCDOT calls this a "freeway" design.

And hell, does this look like a freeway to you?

SkyPesos

#18
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 10:22:00 PM
NCDOT calls this a "freeway" design.

And hell, does this look like a freeway to you?
Yes
Looks like a standard folded diamond to me. And I see nothing wrong with the design in the top link.

tolbs17

Quote from: SkyPesos on July 22, 2021, 10:24:06 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 10:22:00 PM
And hell, does this look like a freeway to you?
Yes
I say maybe an urban freeway, not rural.

They also say that this is a freeway also, except I think it was supposed to get C/D lanes.

SkyPesos

Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 10:26:42 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on July 22, 2021, 10:24:06 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 10:22:00 PM
And hell, does this look like a freeway to you?
Yes
I say maybe an urban freeway, not rural.

They also say that this is a freeway also, except I think it was supposed to get C/D lanes.
Are you referring to NC 540 or US 64 in the link? If it's NC 540, I see C/D lanes. If US 64, Google Maps code it as an limited access expressway, not the darker orange of a freeway.

tolbs17

Quote from: SkyPesos on July 22, 2021, 10:28:45 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 10:26:42 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on July 22, 2021, 10:24:06 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 10:22:00 PM
And hell, does this look like a freeway to you?
Yes
I say maybe an urban freeway, not rural.

They also say that this is a freeway also, except I think it was supposed to get C/D lanes.
Are you referring to NC 540 or US 64 in the link? If it's NC 540, I see C/D lanes. If US 64, Google Maps code it as an limited access expressway, not the darker orange of a freeway.
US 64. And it's hard to tell if Google Maps has it listed as an expressway or a freeway. Waze and OpenStreetMaps are more clear listing the segments as a freeway.

vdeane

I never thought I'd see a definition of "freeway" that was stricter than the one used by the Canadians arguing with me in the Detroit Bridge Wars thread (that the Thruway wasn't a freeway due to the toll barriers), but then I read this thread... :-o
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

SkyPesos

Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 10:30:42 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on July 22, 2021, 10:28:45 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 10:26:42 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on July 22, 2021, 10:24:06 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 10:22:00 PM
And hell, does this look like a freeway to you?
Yes
I say maybe an urban freeway, not rural.

They also say that this is a freeway also, except I think it was supposed to get C/D lanes.
Are you referring to NC 540 or US 64 in the link? If it's NC 540, I see C/D lanes. If US 64, Google Maps code it as an limited access expressway, not the darker orange of a freeway.
US 64. And it's hard to tell if Google Maps has it listed as an expressway or a freeway. Waze and OpenStreetMaps are more clear listing the segments as a freeway.
I think it looks clearer when zoomed out a bit. NC 540 is the N-S line to the left, US 1 is the diagonal on the bottom, and US 64 is the E-W.

tolbs17

Quote from: SkyPesos on July 22, 2021, 10:32:32 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 10:30:42 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on July 22, 2021, 10:28:45 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 10:26:42 PM
Quote from: SkyPesos on July 22, 2021, 10:24:06 PM
Quote from: tolbs17 on July 22, 2021, 10:22:00 PM
And hell, does this look like a freeway to you?
Yes
I say maybe an urban freeway, not rural.

They also say that this is a freeway also, except I think it was supposed to get C/D lanes.
Are you referring to NC 540 or US 64 in the link? If it's NC 540, I see C/D lanes. If US 64, Google Maps code it as an limited access expressway, not the darker orange of a freeway.
US 64. And it's hard to tell if Google Maps has it listed as an expressway or a freeway. Waze and OpenStreetMaps are more clear listing the segments as a freeway.
I think it looks clearer when zoomed out a bit. NC 540 is the N-S line to the left, US 1 is the diagonal on the bottom, and US 64 is the E-W.

There has been some talk back in the day to convert that into a full freeway, but it seems like that plan is dead.



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