News:

Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered from the forum database changes made in Fall 2023. Let us know if you discover anymore.

Main Menu

Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana

Started by mukade, June 25, 2011, 08:55:31 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Revive 755

Lack of leadship/political initiative to roll back a defective transportation bill?  Seems like it was one in the early 1990's that gave the MPO's more power.


Alps

Quote from: hbelkins on March 10, 2012, 10:15:37 PM
How in the world does our system allow a group of NIMBY yahoos to stand in the way of a major cross-state (and in this case, transcontinental) highway? This should be a decision made by state and federal officials. Yes, local residents should be able to express their opinions, but this MPO that surely (surely? surely!) does not represent the majority opinion in the area?

Is it going to take having a child of one of these NIMBYs being killed by being T-boned at a traffic light on IN 37 between Bloomington and Indy for them to change their minds?
Reminds me of the Republican lawmakers in (some state - possibly Washington?) who voted in favor of gay marriage only because his/her daughter was a lesbian and the parent wanted the daughter to be as happy as the parent was in life. When something touches you personally, you tend to end up on the more logical side of the argument because you have personally seen the effects of the law or policy in its current form.

bugo

Quote from: hbelkins on March 10, 2012, 10:15:37 PM
How in the world does our system allow a group of NIMBY yahoos to stand in the way of a major cross-state (and in this case, transcontinental) highway? This should be a decision made by state and federal officials. Yes, local residents should be able to express their opinions, but this MPO that surely (surely? surely!) does not represent the majority opinion in the area?

Is it going to take having a child of one of these NIMBYs being killed by being T-boned at a traffic light on IN 37 between Bloomington and Indy for them to change their minds?

The same way a bunch of Republican male yahoos are trying to outlaw birth control and abortions and condoms.

mightyace

Gee does everything here have to be turned into an off-topic political discussion?
My Flickr Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/mightyace

I'm out of this F***KING PLACE!

hbelkins

Quote from: Steve on March 10, 2012, 11:25:34 PM
Reminds me of the Republican lawmakers in (some state - possibly Washington?) who voted in favor of gay marriage only because his/her daughter was a lesbian and the parent wanted the daughter to be as happy as the parent was in life. When something touches you personally, you tend to end up on the more logical side of the argument because you have personally seen the effects of the law or policy in its current form.

Are you saying the anti-69 people are right? It's logical for them to want all the traffic zipping northeast from Evansville to be dumped onto IN 37 for the rest of the trip to Indy?

I-69 is going to be built. Bloomington doesn't need to be a pimple on the ass of progress.

Quote from: bugo on March 10, 2012, 11:31:13 PM
The same way a bunch of Republican male yahoos are trying to outlaw birth control ... and condoms.

Except they aren't.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Grzrd

Quote from: Revive 755 on March 10, 2012, 10:53:26 PM
Lack of leadship/political initiative to roll back a defective transportation bill?  Seems like it was one in the early 1990's that gave the MPO's more power.

Both House and Senate versions of reauthorization bill are addressing the issue of proper balance among local MPO, state, and federal authority.  IIRC the Bloomington/ Monroe County MPO serves a population of approximately 92,000. This Feb. 3, 2012 article indicates that the Senate version of the bill seeks to abolish MPOs that serve populations of less than 250,000, whereas the House version would keep the MPOs but permit the governor to override any MPO recalcitrance regarding vital interstate projects:

Quote
A House committee has approved a federal highway spending bill that could settle a dispute jeopardizing construction of a final segment of Interstate 69 between Evansville and Indianapolis.
In a 29-24 vote after a marathon mark-up session that finally concluded at 3 a.m. Friday, the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee approved a $260 billion, five-year surface transportation package.
The bill includes a provision inserted at the behest of Indiana's 8th District Rep. Larry Bucshon, of Newburgh, that essentially prohibits a Metropolitan Planning Organization from standing in the way of an interstate project of statewide significance ....
The Bucshon provision permits the governor to override any MPO recalcitrance regarding vital interstate projects. Gov. Mitch Daniels is a proponent of the I-69 project.
Competing legislation in the Senate abolishes MPOs that serve a population of less than 250,000, thus eliminating more than 75 percent of Indiana's MPOs. Bucshon, though, recommends keeping the panels because they frequently provide significant input ....

Of course, who knows if a reauthorization bill will pass anytime in the near future?

Alps

Quote from: hbelkins on March 11, 2012, 01:35:29 AM
Quote from: Steve on March 10, 2012, 11:25:34 PM
Reminds me of the Republican lawmakers in (some state - possibly Washington?) who voted in favor of gay marriage only because his/her daughter was a lesbian and the parent wanted the daughter to be as happy as the parent was in life. When something touches you personally, you tend to end up on the more logical side of the argument because you have personally seen the effects of the law or policy in its current form.

Are you saying the anti-69 people are right? It's logical for them to want all the traffic zipping northeast from Evansville to be dumped onto IN 37 for the rest of the trip to Indy?

I-69 is going to be built. Bloomington doesn't need to be a pimple on the ass of progress.

Quite the opposite. I'm saying that once people are touched by the current conditions (accident on the current roads), they'll realize the importance of the improvements.

hbelkins

Quote from: Steve on March 11, 2012, 01:05:42 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 11, 2012, 01:35:29 AM
Quote from: Steve on March 10, 2012, 11:25:34 PM
Reminds me of the Republican lawmakers in (some state - possibly Washington?) who voted in favor of gay marriage only because his/her daughter was a lesbian and the parent wanted the daughter to be as happy as the parent was in life. When something touches you personally, you tend to end up on the more logical side of the argument because you have personally seen the effects of the law or policy in its current form.

Are you saying the anti-69 people are right? It's logical for them to want all the traffic zipping northeast from Evansville to be dumped onto IN 37 for the rest of the trip to Indy?

I-69 is going to be built. Bloomington doesn't need to be a pimple on the ass of progress.

Quite the opposite. I'm saying that once people are touched by the current conditions (accident on the current roads), they'll realize the importance of the improvements.

OK, for a minute there I thought you were referring to something touching you personally as meaning I-69 running through your back yard, which would give literal meaning to the term NIMBY.  :bigass:


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Alps

Quote from: hbelkins on March 11, 2012, 01:53:28 PM
Quote from: Steve on March 11, 2012, 01:05:42 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 11, 2012, 01:35:29 AM
Quote from: Steve on March 10, 2012, 11:25:34 PM
Reminds me of the Republican lawmakers in (some state - possibly Washington?) who voted in favor of gay marriage only because his/her daughter was a lesbian and the parent wanted the daughter to be as happy as the parent was in life. When something touches you personally, you tend to end up on the more logical side of the argument because you have personally seen the effects of the law or policy in its current form.

Are you saying the anti-69 people are right? It's logical for them to want all the traffic zipping northeast from Evansville to be dumped onto IN 37 for the rest of the trip to Indy?

I-69 is going to be built. Bloomington doesn't need to be a pimple on the ass of progress.

Quite the opposite. I'm saying that once people are touched by the current conditions (accident on the current roads), they'll realize the importance of the improvements.

OK, for a minute there I thought you were referring to something touching you personally as meaning I-69 running through your back yard, which would give literal meaning to the term NIMBY.  :bigass:
I'd love a freeway running through my backyard. With one stipulation: I get my own personal exit signed entirely in button copy, embossed, and/or pre-FHWA fonts.

hbelkins



Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Alps

Quote from: hbelkins on March 11, 2012, 05:08:33 PM
And a cutout US 46 shield?

You know, I really ought to get a better version, though I think it's just in my queue.

NE2


Not the best-looking shield, but it's a legit (bordered) cutout.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

DeaconG

Quote from: hbelkins on March 10, 2012, 10:15:37 PM
How in the world does our system allow a group of NIMBY yahoos to stand in the way of a major cross-state (and in this case, transcontinental) highway? This should be a decision made by state and federal officials. Yes, local residents should be able to express their opinions, but this MPO that surely (surely? surely!) does not represent the majority opinion in the area?

Is it going to take having a child of one of these NIMBYs being killed by being T-boned at a traffic light on IN 37 between Bloomington and Indy for them to change their minds?

Unfortunately, yes; and considering how hard headed these folk are, it will probably be several of their children before they change their minds and scream for something to be done.
Dawnstar: "You're an ape! And you can talk!"
King Solovar: "And you're a human with wings! Reality holds surprises for everyone!"
-Crisis On Infinite Earths #2

Hot Rod Hootenanny

Quote from: hbelkins on March 10, 2012, 10:15:37 PM
How in the world does our system allow a group of NIMBY yahoos to stand in the way of a major cross-state (and in this case, transcontinental) highway? This should be a decision made by state and federal officials. Yes, local residents should be able to express their opinions, but this MPO that surely (surely? surely!) does not represent the majority opinion in the area?

Is it going to take having a child of one of these NIMBYs being killed by being T-boned at a traffic light on IN 37 between Bloomington and Indy for them to change their minds?

So individual property rights should be discarded for the wants of a federal gov't that capriciously decided where a road should go, in spite of the wants of the local population?
Whatever happened to "states rights?" ;-)
Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

hbelkins

Federal government? The state of Indiana is building I-69.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Alps

Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on March 11, 2012, 10:21:33 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 10, 2012, 10:15:37 PM
How in the world does our system allow a group of NIMBY yahoos to stand in the way of a major cross-state (and in this case, transcontinental) highway? This should be a decision made by state and federal officials. Yes, local residents should be able to express their opinions, but this MPO that surely (surely? surely!) does not represent the majority opinion in the area?

Is it going to take having a child of one of these NIMBYs being killed by being T-boned at a traffic light on IN 37 between Bloomington and Indy for them to change their minds?

So individual property rights should be discarded for the wants of a federal gov't that capriciously decided where a road should go, in spite of the wants of the local population?
Whatever happened to "states rights?" ;-)
Quote from: hbelkins on March 12, 2012, 11:00:51 PM
Federal government? The state of Indiana is building I-69.
Additionally, there's no caprice behind the decision. Public input is carefully considered for ALL stakeholders. The idea is that one small group of road terrorists doesn't get to dictate to the majority what's best when it clearly isn't best.

Anthony_JK

Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on March 11, 2012, 10:21:33 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 10, 2012, 10:15:37 PM
How in the world does our system allow a group of NIMBY yahoos to stand in the way of a major cross-state (and in this case, transcontinental) highway? This should be a decision made by state and federal officials. Yes, local residents should be able to express their opinions, but this MPO that surely (surely? surely!) does not represent the majority opinion in the area?

Is it going to take having a child of one of these NIMBYs being killed by being T-boned at a traffic light on IN 37 between Bloomington and Indy for them to change their minds?

So individual property rights should be discarded for the wants of a federal gov't that capriciously decided where a road should go, in spite of the wants of the local population?
Whatever happened to "states rights?" ;-)

Would the "individual property rights" of people alongside US 41 been equally "violated" if Tom Tolarksi had had his way and I-69 been rerouted along that highway and I-70??  What about the "individual property rights" of those who WANTED the new-terrain I-69??

I''m as far to the Left politically as a roadgeek can be, and I favored the new terrain route as the best and most convenient connection between Evansville and Indy. The NIMBYs there are simply so full of it, and they are acting like spoiled brats who can't accept defeat and would rather simply either run out the clock or trash everything in their "If I can't have you, nobody will" rage.


Anthony


NE2

Quote from: Anthony_JK on March 13, 2012, 03:13:01 AM
I''m as far to the Left politically as a roadgeek can be
You say this like someone has to like something to be interested in it. Are historians who study the Third Reich all Nazis?
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

tdindy88

And now, for something more relavent, as it turns out, we are not completely done with Bloomington. New today:

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/30665709/detail.html

Hot Rod Hootenanny

Quote from: hbelkins on March 12, 2012, 11:00:51 PM
Federal government? The state of Indiana is building I-69.
So Indiana is building I-69 in Mississippi then?
Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

hbelkins

Well, no. But you know what I mean.

Actually, isn't most of I-69 construction in Indiana being funded by the leasing of the toll road?


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

tdindy88

The first three sections definently are financed by the toll road, I think the fourth might be coming from traditional funding, but it may be from the toll road as well. The last two sections will be funded traditionally.

Anthony_JK

Quote from: NE2 on March 13, 2012, 03:19:51 AM
Quote from: Anthony_JK on March 13, 2012, 03:13:01 AM
I''m as far to the Left politically as a roadgeek can be
You say this like someone has to like something to be interested in it. Are historians who study the Third Reich all Nazis?

No, not really...just saying that not all self-ID'd Leftists are anti-highway whackjobs who want to tear down every freeway ever built and replace them with commuter rail.


Anthony

NE2

Quote from: Anthony_JK on March 13, 2012, 11:52:17 PM
No, not really...just saying that not all self-ID'd Leftists are anti-highway whackjobs who want to tear down every freeway ever built and replace them with commuter rail.
But even if someone did want to do that (which is an obvious strawman in the first place), that wouldn't mean they couldn't be a roadgeek.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

mukade

I've been away for a few weeks so am not sure if this was mentioned in this thread, but I noticed that the 12/12/12 INDOT scheduled construction letting has the SR 37 interchange. I thought I-69 was going to temporarily end at a stoplight at SR 37.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.