Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana

[Alps]

^ The link doesn't work. Can we get a correction, please?

It does work. You need to enter the information.

[tdindy88]

On this subject, I picked up the 2013 Tourism map from Indiana today (which is not the official INDOT map, which should come out sometime next year, but uses the same INDOT cartography) and saw that the Interstate 69 route from SR 68 to US 231 is now marked with exit numbers at the exit. The stretch of I-69 from US 231 to SR 37 is now labeled as under construction instead of just being a proposed corridor. Still however, the "Corridor I-69" shield is used on the new route that is open. Also, the exit numbers on the stretch of I-69 from Indianapolis to Michigan have all been changed. Furthermore, in Indiana's 2013 visitors guide the new I-69 route appears on all maps that cover the South-Central and South regions of the state.

[mukade]

Some of the I-69 section 5 construction sequencing can be seen here. Vernal Pike will be done first, thank goodness, followed by Fullerton Pike with a connection to That Rd. - one of my favorite road names. Let's hope they complete the south end of section 5 even if the whole section is not completed for years. The link is not new, BTW, but it is the first time I noticed the details.

An article in a Terre Haute TV station site says that "I69 Draws Auto Parts", but I am not quite sure what the article really is saying other than it could cause companies to expand along the new route.

[thefro]

Glad they're scheduled to start with Vernal Pike in Section 5.  That's the big thing that needs to be fixed on the Bloomington bypass for traffic flow at present.  I expect at a mininum that the state will find the budget to get that overpass built in the next few years.

Everything else in Section A are things that will need to happen once I-69 connects to SR 37 on the South Side, which will increase traffic on that side of town.

[mukade]

Indiana is considering hiring a private firm to design and build the stretch of Interstate 69 from Bloomington to Martinsville...

Indiana considers private firm for I-69 legs (San Francisco Chronicle)

State may hire one agency to handle all details of I-69's next section (Evansville Courier & Press)

[codyg1985]

Instead, he said, the state would agree to pay one lump sum to the contractor. Since that contractor would be handling a broad array of aspects, Wingfield said, the state believes the state could get a better price than it would by bonding for the highway's construction.

I fail to see how this is going to work. I could understand if it was an Indefinite Delivery, Indefinite Quantity type contract where INDOT pays the contractor at different intervals, but I don't see how the lump sum is going to work, especially if that lump sum is less than the cost to build the road.

[mukade]

Some of the I-69 section 5 construction sequencing can be seen here. Vernal Pike will be done first, thank goodness, followed by Fullerton Pike with a connection to That Rd. - one of my favorite road names. Let's hope they complete the south end of section 5 even if the whole section is not completed for years. The link is not new, BTW, but it is the first time I noticed the details.

An article in a Terre Haute TV station site says that "I69 Draws Auto Parts", but I am not quite sure what the article really is saying other than it could cause companies to expand along the new route.

The INDOT web site today states:

Pending federal approval, I-69 Section 5 construction could begin as early as 2013 with safety improvements to existing S.R. 37 intersections and interchanges in Bloomington. The safety improvements are intended to coincide with the opening of I-69 Section 4 to traffic southwest of Bloomington.

So the next opening could mean freeway from SR 46 all the way to the Ohio River for an approximate distance of 120 miles.

[silverback1065]

would they really need to do anything to SR 37 in Bloomington but put in overpasses?  The interchanges are already built. 

[ShawnP]

Thanks for the information guys. Glad to see INDOT is preparing to deal with the extra traffic in the Bloomington area.

[tdindy88]

would they really need to do anything to SR 37 in Bloomington but put in overpasses?  The interchanges are already built. 

I believe there is supposed to be an interchange at Fullerton Pike (or That Road or Tapp Road, don't remember exactly which but I'm pretty sure it's Fullerton.) That and the interchanges at SR 45 and SR 48 might be rebuilt (according to some of the plans that were up.) Granted, the plans aren't set in stone and those two interchange DON'T HAVE to be rebuilt immediately. I guess my question on the proposed work within Bloomington would be, if the overpasses and/or interchanges are built up to at least SR 46, would I-69 officially be designated that far north?

[mukade]

would they really need to do anything to SR 37 in Bloomington but put in overpasses?  The interchanges are already built. 

I believe there is supposed to be an interchange at Fullerton Pike (or That Road or Tapp Road, don't remember exactly which but I'm pretty sure it's Fullerton.) That and the interchanges at SR 45 and SR 48 might be rebuilt (according to some of the plans that were up.) Granted, the plans aren't set in stone and those two interchange DON'T HAVE to be rebuilt immediately. I guess my question on the proposed work within Bloomington would be, if the overpasses and/or interchanges are built up to at least SR 46, would I-69 officially be designated that far north?

It seems to read that way, but if you look at the construction sequencing document, I do not see that it would be possible because they won't allow consecutive interchanges or consecutive overpasses to be built simultaneously. Personally, I'd just like to see the Vernal Pike and Tapp Road overpasses and Fullerton Pike interchange built for 2014. If they don't travel through Bloomington will be dangerous.

[thefro]

It's probably going to be a 3-5 year project for even the "Package A" improvements in Bloomington, and probably the best case scenario is heavy construction starting in 2014.  There's no approval yet for the budget or formal bids going on.

You're dealing with an existing road with a good amount of traffic so you can't do everything at once.  Tapp/Fullerton & Vernal Pike need to happen before you can work on either 2nd or 3rd (and those can't happen at the same time).  Traffic's going to have to be rerouted to those other roads.

Even though a lot of SR 37 in Bloomington is already close to interstate standards, it's probably going to be the biggest project outside of the 5 mile stretch or so of SR 37 south of Indianapolis that connects to I-465.

My understanding from reading what was posted earlier is they should be able to sign SR 37 as I-69 to SR48/3rd street once they make the Package A improvements.  All the other improvements will have to be made before they can sign the road to 17th/SR46... there are some other access roads that need to be taken out and overpasses that need to be built.

Hopefully they can find the budget for the whole section, otherwise it could be a while before they finish it.

[jnewkirk77]

I don't believe they'll designate I-69 along any part of 37 until it's completely done between 465 and the south side of Bloomington.  Seems silly to me to extend it a little at a time as improvements are made ... just wait until it's done.

[mukade]

I don't believe they'll designate I-69 along any part of 37 until it's completely done between 465 and the south side of Bloomington.  Seems silly to me to extend it a little at a time as improvements are made ... just wait until it's done.

I will disagree. If the road is built to Interstate standards and is open, it should be signed. I think INDOT even said that in the AASHTO application submitted last year. The new terrain sections open in one big bang, though.

[jnewkirk77]

I don't believe they'll designate I-69 along any part of 37 until it's completely done between 465 and the south side of Bloomington.  Seems silly to me to extend it a little at a time as improvements are made ... just wait until it's done.

I will disagree. If the road is built to Interstate standards and is open, it should be signed. I think INDOT even said that in the AASHTO application submitted last year. The new terrain sections open in one big bang, though.

True ... there is precedent for that elsewhere, like when MoDOT gradually extended I-64 westward to I-70.

[wh15395]

Well here's an interesting idea that I hadn't even heard of since it was originally proposed until today:
http://www.wthr.com/story/20271336/commerce-connector-gets-new-life-in-legislature

I suppose I'm okay with the idea as long as it is privately funded.

[mukade]

If it was routed a bit closer in that the original plan, it could be designated I-69. That would solve the problem of funding the cost of the most expensive part of I-69 as it approaches Indy from the south. A problem with that is that there would be a gap in the exit numbers, though.

[silverback1065]

Well here's an interesting idea that I hadn't even heard of since it was originally proposed until today:
http://www.wthr.com/story/20271336/commerce-connector-gets-new-life-in-legislature

I suppose I'm okay with the idea as long as it is privately funded.

I'm not in favor of it, it really doesn't solve our transportation issues in Indy.  I personally think that it will just make it worse (after initially making things better).  Indy needs to have a real mass transit system, it doesn't have to be a subway, but actually having a good bus system that covers the whole city is a good start.  I think this serves as a better bypass of the city but it doesn't solve the city's traffic issues.  But if they did build it, why is it a partial beltway? why not a full one?

[wh15395]

Well here's an interesting idea that I hadn't even heard of since it was originally proposed until today:
http://www.wthr.com/story/20271336/commerce-connector-gets-new-life-in-legislature

I suppose I'm okay with the idea as long as it is privately funded.

I'm not in favor of it, it really doesn't solve our transportation issues in Indy.  I personally think that it will just make it worse (after initially making things better).  Indy needs to have a real mass transit system, it doesn't have to be a subway, but actually having a good bus system that covers the whole city is a good start.  I think this serves as a better bypass of the city but it doesn't solve the city's traffic issues.  But if they did build it, why is it a partial beltway? why not a full one?

I assume the Eastern part of the metro must have more of a demand for it and that the Western part would have it built eventually. And I completely agree about mass transit. I don't see how this is an either/or thing, though. If it's completely funded by a private company, it should in no way effect any efforts to expand the city's transit system.

[ARMOURERERIC]

If it was routed a bit closer in that the original plan, it could be designated I-69. That would solve the problem of funding the cost of the most expensive part of I-69 as it approaches Indy from the south. A problem with that is that there would be a gap in the exit numbers, though.

Will there be a gap in exit numbers though? Remember the new exit nmbers are, what 18 too high on the NE side.

[mukade]

If it was routed a bit closer in that the original plan, it could be designated I-69. That would solve the problem of funding the cost of the most expensive part of I-69 as it approaches Indy from the south. A problem with that is that there would be a gap in the exit numbers, though.

Will there be a gap in exit numbers though? Remember the new exit nmbers are, what 18 too high on the NE side.

The difference is 16 miles, and at least the original Commerce Corridor route had no backtracking. In the unlikely chance that the new highway would be built and used at I-69, I would expect that a 16 mile jump in exit numbers would be evident.

[NWI_Irish96]

If this were to be built and be signed as I-69, does the existing I-69 SW of Pendleton become I-169?

[tdindy88]

I'm very skeptical that this will even be built. Community opposition killed the project the last time and I don't see how it won't be any better this time, toll road or not. I honestly don't think that travel on I-465 is THAT bad to demand a new bypass around the city. Sure rush hour can get heavy in spots on the north and south sides it still isn't bad the rest of the time. What INDOT should do is widen I-465 to eight lanes at least around the city (something that is about half done already) and improve the freeway-to-freeway interchanges (such as 465/65 on the south side, which is going to be done next year.) This is just me though.

As for I-69's route through the Indianapolis area, why not route the highway north from Martinsville to I-70 and then multiplex it with I-70 (leaving I-465 as a decent detour if needed for traffic problems downtown) all the way through the city to the east side and then continuing it up 465 to the current I-69. Most of this route is already widened to six or eight lanes and this could cut a bit of the gap between exit numbers. Just an idea.

[Henry]

As for I-69's route through the Indianapolis area, why not route the highway north from Martinsville to I-70 and then multiplex it with I-70 (leaving I-465 as a decent detour if needed for traffic problems downtown) all the way through the city to the east side and then continuing it up 465 to the current I-69. Most of this route is already widened to six or eight lanes and this could cut a bit of the gap between exit numbers. Just an idea.

As nice as it would be, that route will never be done, mainly because it's a little too out of the way. Plus, INDOT is continuing to push for completion of the direct connection to the south side of Indy, which is still years away.

[mukade]

I'm very skeptical that this will even be built. Community opposition killed the project the last time and I don't see how it won't be any better this time, toll road or not. I honestly don't think that travel on I-465 is THAT bad to demand a new bypass around the city. Sure rush hour can get heavy in spots on the north and south sides it still isn't bad the rest of the time. What INDOT should do is widen I-465 to eight lanes at least around the city (something that is about half done already) and improve the freeway-to-freeway interchanges (such as 465/65 on the south side, which is going to be done next year.) This is just me though.

As for I-69's route through the Indianapolis area, why not route the highway north from Martinsville to I-70 and then multiplex it with I-70 (leaving I-465 as a decent detour if needed for traffic problems downtown) all the way through the city to the east side and then continuing it up 465 to the current I-69. Most of this route is already widened to six or eight lanes and this could cut a bit of the gap between exit numbers. Just an idea.

I agree that it probably will not get built and I agree that around SR 39 to SR 67 then somehow to I-70 would have been a decent route, but changing the route now would mean they are back to square one with the Feds, right? It would take years to get all the approvals. On the other hand, if it followed the proposed route to a tollway (which gets no Federal funds), that would be OK. At least that was the way I understand it. Still, that doesn't make it a good plan or likely to happen - just more doable than routing I-69 on to I-70.