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Is the IL-IN-OH-PA-NJ toll corridor a single toll road or not?

Started by hotdogPi, August 15, 2015, 09:46:14 AM

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theline

One more connection that Hoosier leaders hoped that the ITR would provide is Detroit to Chicago. They intentionally chose an extreme northern route, often within sight of Michigan, figuring that Michigan would eventually build a toll road from some point along the border to the Motor City. They were foiled when the interstate system came along and designated free I-94 as the Detroit-Chicago route. Indiana delayed building their portion of 94 between the ITR and the Michigan state line as long as possible to keep motorists on the toll road for as many miles as they could.


The Ghostbuster

Whether or not the corridor is a single toll road or not, it is a great way to get from the Midwest to the East Coast (although it doesn't quite reach the Atlantic Ocean).

cl94

Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 18, 2015, 12:31:43 PM
Quote from: Henry on August 18, 2015, 12:23:37 PM
Quote from: ysuindy on August 17, 2015, 11:50:38 PM
Quote from: rellimsukram on August 17, 2015, 09:40:17 PM
I know this is off topic but does anyone else think that i80 i90 wasn't the best toll road choice for IN. Maybe around Gary it could be one, but I find that i69 or i65 would be much better options. i69 being a toll road would piss off everyone in fort wayne, but would rake in boatloads of cash. I80 i90 doesnt cover enough decent sized cities in indiana
When Ohio finished the Turnpike to the Indiana border, the Toll Road needed to be completed to Chicago. At that time, the intent was to connect the two largest cities in the US (New York and Chicago)
Which is already done with I-80, even though it doesn't actually go into either city.

I-80 didn't exist when the toll roads were built.  You have to think back to the landscape of the 1940's and 50's.

Exactly. In PA, the intent was to connect Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, while the idea in Ohio and Indiana was to get people to Chicago while charging them money at the same time.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

mrsman

I would consider the corridor to be one road, even though the names and the numbers change.

In essence, you're following the mainline the whole way through.  From Mansfield, NJ to Englewood, Chicago, IL you don't take a single exit ramp.

Likewise, I consider the following to be one corridor as well:  from the Port Huron border crossing along I-69, following I-94 through Michigan and Portage, IN becoming I-80 and then I-74 and then finally I-280 in Davenport, IA.

Another example from So Cal:  I-210 Foothill Freeway/ CA 134 Ventura Freeway / Us 101 Ventura Freeway is one corridor.


Joe The Dragon

Quote from: mrsman on August 18, 2015, 11:18:05 PM
I would consider the corridor to be one road, even though the names and the numbers change.

In essence, you're following the mainline the whole way through.  From Mansfield, NJ to Englewood, Chicago, IL you don't take a single exit ramp.

Likewise, I consider the following to be one corridor as well:  from the Port Huron border crossing along I-69, following I-94 through Michigan and Portage, IN becoming I-80 and then I-74 and then finally I-280 in Davenport, IA.

Another example from So Cal:  I-210 Foothill Freeway/ CA 134 Ventura Freeway / Us 101 Ventura Freeway is one corridor.
I-294 is the main flow from the I-80 spilt.

mukade

Quote from: theline on August 18, 2015, 01:57:40 PM
One more connection that Hoosier leaders hoped that the ITR would provide is Detroit to Chicago. They intentionally chose an extreme northern route, often within sight of Michigan, figuring that Michigan would eventually build a toll road from some point along the border to the Motor City. They were foiled when the interstate system came along and designated free I-94 as the Detroit-Chicago route. Indiana delayed building their portion of 94 between the ITR and the Michigan state line as long as possible to keep motorists on the toll road for as many miles as they could.

Remember that the Ohio Turnpike opened before the Indiana Toll Road. For the ITR route they had a choice of: 1) the route chosen, 2) a route through Angola and along the south side of South Bend and Elkhart (where the US 20 bypass was built), or 3) one that went from Chicago to Fort Wayne. I think options 1 and 2 were set as the Ohio Turnpike already existed so option 3 would never connect to the Ohio Turnpike and would miss Toledo. As for option 2, US 30 was already a divided highway in the early 50s so I think there were very valid reasons for selecting that northerly route other than to stick it to Michigan. In the scheme of things, Fort Wayne is the one that drew the short stick with the northern route, not southern Michigan.

As for that last missing segment of I-94 being delayed, let's keep that in perspective. It was completed in 1974 if I remember correctly so that was 41 years ago. There are segments of Interstate 95 on the east coast that have never been built. That last segment of I-94 in Porter and Laporte counties was built before I-64 in Indiana and not too long after I-65 was completed - seems like that was 1972 or after (maybe even 1975).  Because I had family in Michigan , I remember that missing segment of I-94 was a pain, but so were missing segments of other Interstate highways that also existed away from ITR.

TravelingBethelite

While on this topic, what are some corridors that you are able to drive without taking 1 exit?  :hmmm: Just taking a shot here, I-84 West > I-81 South > I-40 West (> I-15 South  :bigass:)
"Imprisoned by the freedom of the road!" - Ronnie Milsap
See my photos at: http://bit.ly/1Qi81ws

Now I decide where I go...

2018 Ford Fusion SE - proud new owner!

theline

Quote from: mukade on August 19, 2015, 06:34:15 AM
Quote from: theline on August 18, 2015, 01:57:40 PM
One more connection that Hoosier leaders hoped that the ITR would provide is Detroit to Chicago. They intentionally chose an extreme northern route, often within sight of Michigan, figuring that Michigan would eventually build a toll road from some point along the border to the Motor City. They were foiled when the interstate system came along and designated free I-94 as the Detroit-Chicago route. Indiana delayed building their portion of 94 between the ITR and the Michigan state line as long as possible to keep motorists on the toll road for as many miles as they could.

Remember that the Ohio Turnpike opened before the Indiana Toll Road. For the ITR route they had a choice of: 1) the route chosen, 2) a route through Angola and along the south side of South Bend and Elkhart (where the US 20 bypass was built), or 3) one that went from Chicago to Fort Wayne. I think options 1 and 2 were set as the Ohio Turnpike already existed so option 3 would never connect to the Ohio Turnpike and would miss Toledo. As for option 2, US 30 was already a divided highway in the early 50s so I think there were very valid reasons for selecting that northerly route other than to stick it to Michigan. In the scheme of things, Fort Wayne is the one that drew the short stick with the northern route, not southern Michigan.

As for that last missing segment of I-94 being delayed, let's keep that in perspective. It was completed in 1974 if I remember correctly so that was 41 years ago. There are segments of Interstate 95 on the east coast that have never been built. That last segment of I-94 in Porter and Laporte counties was built before I-64 in Indiana and not too long after I-65 was completed - seems like that was 1972 or after (maybe even 1975).  Because I had family in Michigan , I remember that missing segment of I-94 was a pain, but so were missing segments of other Interstate highways that also existed away from ITR.

I'm guessing that you're much younger than I am. I turned 23 in 1974, and waiting around for Indiana to finish that segment of 94 seemed like forever. The 41 years since doesn't seem so long. It's all about perspective.  :biggrin:

That segment was the last to be completed, and I'm entitled to my interpretation of the motive. You're entitled to yours. I doubt that we'll ever find conclusive evidence to prove either viewpoint.

hbelkins

Quote from: TravelingBethelite on August 19, 2015, 10:02:41 AM
While on this topic, what are some corridors that you are able to drive without taking 1 exit?  :hmmm: Just taking a shot here, I-84 West > I-81 South > I-40 West (> I-15 South  :bigass:)

Nope. Staying on I-40 in Memphis requires taking a ramp. Otherwise you're dumped onto Whatshisname Blvd.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

cl94

Quote from: TravelingBethelite on August 19, 2015, 10:02:41 AM
While on this topic, what are some corridors that you are able to drive without taking 1 exit?  :hmmm: Just taking a shot here, I-84 West > I-81 South > I-40 West (> I-15 South  :bigass:)

What are we classifying as an "exit"? If you have a directional-Y and lane distributions are equal, would both be considered mainline or would the one not carrying a through designation be an exit?
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

SSOWorld

Quote from: cl94 on August 19, 2015, 07:22:30 PM
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on August 19, 2015, 10:02:41 AM
While on this topic, what are some corridors that you are able to drive without taking 1 exit?  :hmmm: Just taking a shot here, I-84 West > I-81 South > I-40 West (> I-15 South  :bigass:)

What are we classifying as an "exit"? If you have a directional-Y and lane distributions are equal, would both be considered mainline or would the one not carrying a through designation be an exit?
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.1505239,-89.8860195,1993m/data=!3m1!1e3

More lanes for Sam Cooper Blvd than for I-40 - Either way (I-240, the "beltway" before I-40's original plan to follow said blvd was scrapped - gets the multiple lanes - The interchange's being upgraded, but it looks as if the number of lanes for I-40 is not increasing...
Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

TravelingBethelite

#36
Quote from: cl94 on August 19, 2015, 07:22:30 PM
Quote from: TravelingBethelite on August 19, 2015, 10:02:41 AM
While on this topic, what are some corridors that you are able to drive without taking 1 exit?  :hmmm: Just taking a shot here, I-84 West > I-81 South > I-40 West (> I-15 South  :bigass:)

What are we classifying as an "exit"? If you have a directional-Y and lane distributions are equal, would both be considered mainline or would the one not carrying a through designation be an exit?
I mean the dominant route, though that may be a tough call. Basically, this:

or this:
"Imprisoned by the freedom of the road!" - Ronnie Milsap
See my photos at: http://bit.ly/1Qi81ws

Now I decide where I go...

2018 Ford Fusion SE - proud new owner!

hbelkins

Quote from: TravelingBethelite on August 19, 2015, 09:07:42 PM


I'm old enough to remember when the I-40/I-81 interchange only had a single lane for every movement. Much like the southern I-64/I-75 split in Lexington up until it was rebuilt in 1979-80.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

mukade

Quote from: theline on August 19, 2015, 04:53:39 PM
I'm guessing that you're much younger than I am. I turned 23 in 1974, and waiting around for Indiana to finish that segment of 94 seemed like forever. The 41 years since doesn't seem so long. It's all about perspective.  :biggrin:

That segment was the last to be completed, and I'm entitled to my interpretation of the motive. You're entitled to yours. I doubt that we'll ever find conclusive evidence to prove either viewpoint.

A little younger, but I took SR 39/M-239 and eventually SR 249-US 20-SR 212-US 12 to bridge the gap on trips from Northwest Inidana or Chicago to Grand Rapids. It was annoying, but I also remember gaps on I-65 so my point is simply that this was not the one last gap in the Indiana Interstate system. I think I-64 was finished many years later as well.

FWIW, my father shared your interpretation.



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