Virginia

[Thing 342]

WTOP Radio: Is it time to shut down Virginia speed-trap towns?

For many people, the only souvenir of time spent in tiny Hopewell, Virginia is a paper speeding ticket.

The independent city, with a 2010 population of 22,591 is at the center of AAA's latest effort to limit what the not-for-profit auto club calls "policing for profit,"  with targeted speed enforcement.

"There are some communities in Virginia that use money from police tickets to make up a major part of their town's finances,"  says Lon Anderson, director of public and government relations for AAA Mid-Atlantic, which serves more than 3.4 million members from New Jersey to Virginia.

The most egregious example is a two-mile stretch of interstate highway that runs along the western side of the 10.8 square mile town.

"We dubbed the part of I-295 that runs through Hopewell a "˜million dollar mile,' because they make almost 2 million dollars a year,"  from revenue raised by speed traps, says Anderson.

Most law enforcement agencies say targeted speed enforcement is intended to induce drivers to slow down in areas where road design, volume, and conditions would preclude faster driving.

Yep. Drove that portion of 295 yesterday and counted 7 (!!!) people who had been pulled over by Hopewell cops. I think that all speeding ticket money should be put into a single state pot and used solely for transportation purposes.

[Takumi]

Once or twice I've seen police cars hiding behind the sound barriers on 295 in the Hopewell area, so if you don't see any out in the open there it doesn't mean they aren't present.

[NJRoadfan]

Wasn't the Virginia legislation going to deal with this problem a few years ago? If I recall, Hopewell was writing summons based on local ordinances to collect 100% of the fine as opposed to the state statures regarding motor vehicle violations (which mostly go to the state).

Also add Newsoms Virginia to the list of speed trap towns. The town's police department solely exists to catch speeders on SR-670 running through town and is 100% funded by the proceeds.

[cpzilliacus]

Yep. Drove that portion of 295 yesterday and counted 7 (!!!) people who had been pulled over by Hopewell cops. I think that all speeding ticket money should be put into a single state pot and used solely for transportation purposes.

No reason why Virginia's county and municipal governments should be allowed to enact and enforce local traffic ordinances (Maryland law expressly forbids its counties and municipalities from enacting them).

Local traffic laws are an invitation to abuse of the sort that many unfortunate motorists have been experienced in Hopewell. 

[NJRoadfan]

Speaking of Newsoms, the Google Streetview car got pulled over there!

http://goo.gl/maps/2yCO1

Here is the location of the trap, btw there is ALWAYS a patrol car there: http://goo.gl/maps/Ahkmo

Just east of there the speed limit drops from 55 to 35 quite abruptly.

Also did this 2012 law do anything to stop Hopewell? Apparently not: http://wtop.com/news/2012/04/no-more-local-speed-traps-on-va-interstates/

[cpzilliacus]

Speaking of Newsoms, the Google Streetview car got pulled over there!

http://goo.gl/maps/2yCO1

Here is the location of the trap, btw there is ALWAYS a patrol car there: http://goo.gl/maps/Ahkmo

Just east of there the speed limit drops from 55 to 35 quite abruptly.

Not driven that road (Va. 671), though I may have to if I am down that way - and do to their cops what I did in Bridgeville, Delaware - go about 20 or 25 MPH all the way through their municipality, which really got the Bridgeville police very visibly upset, but what could they do about it?

Also did this 2012 law do anything to stop Hopewell? Apparently not: http://wtop.com/news/2012/04/no-more-local-speed-traps-on-va-interstates/

I would solve it in a little different way - forbid local government law enforcement from counties and municipalities under certain population thresholds from doing traffic enforcement on Interstates and freeways generally without express approval from the Superintendent of the Virginia State Police.

I recall reading someplace that the VSP are (and have been) very pissed at Hopewell for running their revenue-raising operation on an Interstate highway.

[froggie]

Color me lucky, but in all my time in the area I've *NEVER* seen a cop in Newsoms.

[1995hoo]

How do we know the cop was pursuing the Street View car and not doing something else?

[cpzilliacus]

How do we know the cop was pursuing the Street View car and not doing something else?

(1) Pretty small municipality (estimated population well below 500 in 2014); and
(2) This (from the tidewaternews.com site in 2012).

[Alex4897]

How do we know the cop was pursuing the Street View car and not doing something else?

(1) Pretty small municipality (estimated population well below 500 in 2014); and
(2) This (from the tidewaternews.com site in 2012).

Not to mention if you follow the imagery in chronological order you can see him getting pulled into a parking lot.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.628621,-77.129704,3a,75y,66.75h,64.76t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1syAD6POgVWBF6Q_dtfZdYNw!2e0!5s20140601T000000

[Mapmikey]

Also did this 2012 law do anything to stop Hopewell? Apparently not: http://wtop.com/news/2012/04/no-more-local-speed-traps-on-va-interstates/

What is the definition of a speed trap solely to collect revenue?

Is it to pull people over going 71 mph in a 70 mph zone because you are technically speeding and now you get to pay $ to Hopewell?

In my forays along I-295 there is NO shortage of people going in excess of 80 mph in the Hopewell area.  While I get the VSP would be upset that they don't pull over those that Hopewell gets, if someone is driving recklessly (in the eyes of the law, at >80 mph), how can anybody argue the traffic stops are solely for revenue purposes (even if they are)?

I also don't specifically recall cops in Newsom, though my experiences there were in the early 1990s.  Nearby Branchville and Boykins also have a ridiculous speed limit (25) that I assume is designed to help get $ to the town.


Mapmikey

[WillWeaverRVA]

Green Bay is another example, though I didn't see any patrol cars along US 360 when I was last there. However, the speed limit drops abruptly from 60 to 35 in a very short time for about a mile or so, and increases back to 60 after leaving Green Bay.

[1995hoo]

How do we know the cop was pursuing the Street View car and not doing something else?

(1) Pretty small municipality (estimated population well below 500 in 2014); and
(2) This (from the tidewaternews.com site in 2012).

Not to mention if you follow the imagery in chronological order you can see him getting pulled into a parking lot.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.628621,-77.129704,3a,75y,66.75h,64.76t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1syAD6POgVWBF6Q_dtfZdYNw!2e0!5s20140601T000000

Fair enough. It wouldn't let me do that on my iPad–when I try to tap to move the vantage point it usually doesn't do anything. My query was more directed at whether the cop was pursuing someone else, rather than whether he was responding to some other call, but you've answered that.

[D-Dey65]

I think I may stay away from I-295 the next time I drive up. The various speed traps have always scared me about that road, but the very fact that it's used to beat the traffic of I-95 in Richmond and Petersburg, and that VDOT encourages drivers to use it just as much as DelDOT does with I-495 should make the local cops consider laying off.

[1995hoo]

Last time we used I-295 I just set the cruise control at the speed limit and didn't worry about it. There are always plenty of people who think they need to show off how they're faster than you are.

[cpzilliacus]

I think I may stay away from I-295 the next time I drive up. The various speed traps have always scared me about that road, but the very fact that it's used to beat the traffic of I-95 in Richmond and Petersburg, and that VDOT encourages drivers to use it just as much as DelDOT does with I-495 should make the local cops consider laying off.

Virginia's I-295 is a little longer (in terms of distance) than I-95 through Petersburg and Richmond, but is a much better road.  The Hopewell speed trap area runs from U.S. 460 (Exit 3) past Va. 36 (Exit 9, the only interchange (partly) in Hopewell) to Va. 10 (Exit 15 ) to the south landing of the Varina-Enon Bridge over the James River (map here)).  I am deliberately over-stating the part of I-295 actually within the limits of Hopewell, but remember that Virginia laws allows municipal law enforcement to exercise extraterritorial jurisdiction up to (IIRC) 5 miles outside of the city that employs them.


CPZ,
I changed VA 35 to VA 36.  I am sure you intended to type 36, but VA 35 is close enough to the area to confuse me.
-Mark

[WillWeaverRVA]

Virginia laws allows municipal law enforcement to exercise extraterritorial jurisdiction up to (IIRC) 5 miles outside of the city that employs them

This explains why I sometimes see Hopewell police running radar on the segments of I-295 that are actually within Prince George County (along the stretch that jumps in and out of Hopewell).

[cpzilliacus]

Virginia laws allows municipal law enforcement to exercise extraterritorial jurisdiction up to (IIRC) 5 miles outside of the city that employs them

This explains why I sometimes see Hopewell police running radar on the segments of I-295 that are actually within Prince George County (along the stretch that jumps in and out of Hopewell).

Yep.

Emporia too.

I only learned this when I was supervising some of my people along I-395 in Arlington County when a City of Alexandria police officer was shot on a traffic stop on I-395 at Va. 120 (Arlington County). (the suspect was himself shot to death a short time later).

[HTM Duke]

I posted the above on the date shown above. Not only has the sign assembly never been hoisted into place above the road, but when I drove through there this weekend, the sign had been removed altogether! There was a workman's truck nearby and I might have considered stopping to ask about it had I not been on the far side of the road separated by a jersey wall.

Very strange to see a huge sign sitting out for over a year only to be removed without being posted!

A bit of an update here.  I drove through here last week, and the sign was indeed gone.  Drove through the area again yesterday, and there's what appeared to be a new sign, covered by a blue tarp.  I'll be waiting to see what VDOT plans to do next.

[cpzilliacus]

CPZ,
I changed VA 35 to VA 36.  I am sure you intended to type 36, but VA 35 is close enough to the area to confuse me.
-Mark

Yes, of  course, thank you.

Va. 36 is right smack in the heart of the I-295 Hopewell speed trap operation, though the boundary between Hopewell and Prince George County runs through the interchange.

[oscar]

I think I may stay away from I-295 the next time I drive up. The various speed traps have always scared me about that road, but the very fact that it's used to beat the traffic of I-95 in Richmond and Petersburg, and that VDOT encourages drivers to use it just as much as DelDOT does with I-495 should make the local cops consider laying off.

Virginia's I-295 is a little longer (in terms of distance) than I-95 through Petersburg and Richmond, but is a much better road.  The Hopewell speed trap area runs from U.S. 460 (Exit 3) past Va. 36 (Exit 9, the only interchange (partly) in Hopewell) to Va. 10 (Exit 15 ) to the south landing of the Varina-Enon Bridge over the James River (map here)).  I am deliberately over-stating the part of I-295 actually within the limits of Hopewell, but remember that Virginia laws allows municipal law enforcement to exercise extraterritorial jurisdiction up to (IIRC) 5 miles outside of the city that employs them.

But do Hopewell police have the authority to enforce its city's ordinances outside city limits?  I haven't looked it up (just back from Florida), but I doubt it.  Yeah, the Hopewell police can ticket outside city limits, but if they have to ticket for violations of state law rather than local ordinance, that takes away much of the profit motive.  Of course, if they catch someone violating the ordinance within city limits, the pullover can happen outside the limits, and probably not affect what offense gets charged.

[cpzilliacus]

But do Hopewell police have the authority to enforce its city's ordinances outside city limits?  I haven't looked it up (just back from Florida), but I doubt it.  Yeah, the Hopewell police can ticket outside city limits, but if they have to ticket for violations of state law rather than local ordinance, that takes away much of the profit motive.  Of course, if they catch someone violating the ordinance within city limits, the pullover can happen outside the limits, and probably not affect what offense gets charged.

This is a very good question, and relevant too, since as I understand it, most fine revenue resulting from charges of violations of state laws pertaining to traffic end up in the Commonwealth's Literacy Fund, but fines collected from violations of local traffic ordinances end up in that local government's bank account.

Of course, I-295 crosses the boundary between Hopewell and unincorporated Prince George County several times (from Google maps, it seems that the northbound lanes of I-295 cross the line about seven times; southbound about six times) - and I am willing to wager that some of those alleged violations of the Hopewell speeding ordinance did not happen within city limits on I-295.

IMO, Maryland handles this well by forbidding its local governments from enacting traffic ordinances (they can enact parking ordinances).

[1995hoo]

Normally that's what VDOT does. I passed this sign this afternoon in Springfield; it's to be hoisted over the road in the direction I was heading. Maybe the sheer size of the other sign on I-395 was part of the issue? I don't expect to use I-395 again until next weekend, so I don't know when they might finish that one.

I posted the above on the date shown above. Not only has the sign assembly never been hoisted into place above the road, but when I drove through there this weekend, the sign had been removed altogether! There was a workman's truck nearby and I might have considered stopping to ask about it had I not been on the far side of the road separated by a jersey wall.

Very strange to see a huge sign sitting out for over a year only to be removed without being posted!

Looks like the old signs, really, must have been enough. Anyways, quite a waste of money, eh?

On our way through Springfield in the HO/T lanes this afternoon I noticed this sign, or something quite similar, has finally been hoisted into place over westbound Route 644. I could only see the back side of the sign from down below on I-95. So I don't know if it's that exact sign and I won't get over there tomorrow to see, but either way, it's been almost 15 months since they first placed it next to the road there!

[HTM Duke]

@1995hoo:
I took the exit from 95 south to 644 east this evening, and the sign in your picture is what they put up.  As of now, the old signage is still hanging around, but I can't see VDOT putting off removing it for very long.

[1995hoo]

I was just digging around a file cabinet looking for something and while I did not find what I needed, I found something I thought had been thrown away years ago: A 1975 Virginia state highway map!

Unfortunately, given its size I don't have a way to scan the entire thing, though maybe this weekend I might be able to use my wife's photo printer to scan it in pieces because the printer has a flatbed scanner. (My scanner is sheet-feed only.) But I did take a couple of pictures of interesting items using my iPhone.

First, the Richmond area. I found it interesting to note the proposed route of I-295 that looped back to I-95 much further to the north than what was built. It's also interesting to note it only shows three of the four toll plazas on the Richmond—Petersburg Turnpike (the one in Richmond is missing, though it appears on an inset), and I think it's funny to see Kings Dominion listed as "Lion Country Safari—Kings Dominion." The Lion Country monorail ride was part of the amusement park on the same admission, but it opened a year earlier (Kings Dominion opened in May 1975), so maybe someone at VDOT thought it was a separate thing.




Second, Northern Virginia. The item I find most interesting here is the I-595 shield in Arlington, seeing as how that number was never actually posted. It's also interesting to note the Dulles Access Road Extension is not shown as a proposed route (it opened in 1985 and meets I-66 right where the "Prop. 66" shield is seen here). I see Seminary Road is not shown as Route 420. The number is not posted anywhere even today, so I suppose not showing it on the map makes sense. I have not looked at the current map to see whether it appears on there.




Third, suburban Maryland. This is the legendary map that showed the I-270 Spur as I-470! Sorry it's a little blurry.




Other notes:

–I-64 was incomplete between I-81 and Clifton Forge. The easternmost part of this segment is shown in blue dashed lines as under construction; the rest is shown as proposed.

–I-66 was discontinuous, featuring completed segments from I-81 to US-340 (about six miles), that weird three-mile segment near Delaplane that opened in isolation, the part from Gainesville to the Beltway, and the eastern end connecting Rosslyn to DC. All the incomplete segments are shown as proposed.

–I-95 was incomplete from Route 156 south of Petersburg on down to just north of Emporia. It isn't even shown as proposed on the map!

–An I-664 shield appears on the main map even though that road didn't exist yet and is not shown as proposed on the main map. It does appear as a proposed route on the inset. It also looks as though the Hampton Roads Bridge-Tunnel had not yet been twinned, as it is shown using the lines that indicate a two-lane tolled highway.

Funny thing is, though, for the most part you could probably still navigate today using this map as long as you're aware of a few points like I-95 inside the Beltway now being I-395.


Somewhere I had an old DC map that showed I-95 through the District with the dashed lines noting a proposed route and also showed the GW Parkway outside the Beltway as a proposed route via a bridge near Great Falls, but I think that map did indeed get thrown out because I have no clue where it may be if I still have it.