Virginia

[1995hoo]

Lowest I have seen in Virginia was several weeks ago, $1.99 9/10 per gallon on U.S. 48/Va. 55 west of I-81.

Earlier this week the Liberty on Franconia Road near the DMV was at $1.979 for 87 octane, but yesterday when we passed there it was back above $2.

[Thing 342]

Lowest I've seen in the past few weeks was $1.72 in Norton. I paid $1.82 yesterday at the Kroger in Tabb, VA.

Nexus 6

[cpzilliacus]

Lowest I've seen in the past few weeks was $1.72 in Norton. I paid $1.82 yesterday at the Kroger in Tabb, VA.

Nexus 6

Northern Virginia drivers pay a "stealth" 2.1% sales tax (note: not per-gallon tax) on motor fuels ("stealth" because the vast majority of Northern Virginia drivers are not aware of it) to partially subsidize operating losses of WMATA buses and trains. 

You can read more about it here.

[AlexandriaVA]

Northern Virginia drivers pay a "stealth" 2.1% sales tax (note: not per-gallon tax) on motor fuels ("stealth" because the vast majority of Northern Virginia drivers are not aware of it) to partially subsidize operating losses expenses of WMATA buses and trains. 

You can read more about it here.

Fixed that for you. WMATA was never made to turn a profit, or even break even for that matter.

The Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority (Metro) was created by an interstate compact in 1967 to plan, develop, build, finance, and operate a balanced regional transportation system in the national capital area.

You really never fail to insert an aside about how WMATA is not self-sufficient. Last time I checked, the Highway Trust Fund is an annual recipient of general fund monies.

How the local governments party to the Compact fund the authority is up to WMATA and the parties.

[cpzilliacus]

Northern Virginia drivers pay a "stealth" 2.1% sales tax (note: not per-gallon tax) on motor fuels ("stealth" because the vast majority of Northern Virginia drivers are not aware of it) to partially subsidize operating losses expenses of WMATA buses and trains. 

You can read more about it here.

Fixed that for you. WMATA was never made to turn a profit, or even break even for that matter.

Incorrect. 

When the rail system was being built (and before the first section opened in 1976), the WMATA public relations machine was churning out happy talk to the news media and in newsletters to the public about how the system was going to return a "profit" to its local government owners once the system was completed in 1981 (the states were at that point not especially involved in WMATA governance).

The Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority (Metro) was created by an interstate compact in 1967 to plan, develop, build, finance, and operate a balanced regional transportation system in the national capital area.

You really never fail to insert an aside about how WMATA is not self-sufficient. Last time I checked, the Highway Trust Fund is an annual recipient of general fund monies.

What you are saying is that highways should not get federal general fund revenues, and I agree with you in general terms (there may be some relatively small exceptions where it would be appropriate to use general fund dollars, though I cannot think of one right now).

It is only because there are many Members of Congress that are terrified of doing the right thing, which is to increase motor fuel tax rates.

How the local governments party to the Compact fund the authority is up to WMATA and the parties.

That is correct.  Maryland funds its share almost entirely out of motor fuel taxes and other highway-oriented revenues - collected statewide.  The MTA-Maryland capital and operating subsides come from those same sources.  At least the diversion of toll revenues to transit, which got going around 2000 under then-Gov. Parris Nelson Glendening, was stopped about 2009 or 2010, though I expect that the very same groups that were so loudly opposed to Md. 200 (ICC) will at some point raise demands that some of its toll revenues be diverted to transit.

Virginia funds it partially from motor fuel taxes imposed on purchases of gasoline and Diesel in the Virginia counties and cities that are part of the WMATA compact, and partly from local government general funds.  Capital subsidies for the line to Dulles are funded by Dulles Toll Road patrons, and by commercial property owners with land near and somewhat near the stations.

D.C. funds its share from motor fuel taxes, parking taxes, parking meter revenues and parking fines. 

[AlexandriaVA]

What you are saying is that highways should not get federal general fund revenues, and I agree with you in general terms

Didn't say that. Going back to the National Road and land grants to the railroads, transportation in the country has almost always had some sort of government subsidy, direct or indirect. That roads or transit don't "pay for themselves" is as much as a problem that parks, schools, or the police don't "pay for themselves". In other words, I'm fine with major public goods being funded by public monies, regardless if you use it or not.

the WMATA public relations machine was churning out happy talk to the news media and in newsletters to the public about how the system was going to return a "profit" to its local government owners once the system was completed in 1981

PR is just that, PR. If you find breaking even or turning a profit to be a goal in WMATA's charter, I'll concede the point. Otherwise I stand by it.

It is only because there are many Members of Congress that are terrified of doing the right thing, which is to increase motor fuel tax rates.

And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon. Clearly Congress isn't going to raise the gas tax for quite some time (ever?) so for the indefinite future, road projects will be "losing money" and drawing funding from the general fund.

[cpzilliacus]

What you are saying is that highways should not get federal general fund revenues, and I agree with you in general terms

Didn't say that. Going back to the National Road and land grants to the railroads, transportation in the country has almost always had some sort of government subsidy, direct or indirect. That roads or transit don't "pay for themselves" is as much as a problem that parks, schools, or the police don't "pay for themselves". In other words, I'm fine with major public goods being funded by public monies, regardless if you use it or not.

The National Road was a turnpike (some of its toll houses still stand), and federal bonds were sold to fund its construction, to be paid by toll revenues.

I do not consider highways funded by user fees [mostly fuel taxes and tolls] (which is traditionally how they have been funded since the early days of the automobile) to be tax-subsidized.

the WMATA public relations machine was churning out happy talk to the news media and in newsletters to the public about how the system was going to return a "profit" to its local government owners once the system was completed in 1981

PR is just that, PR. If you find breaking even or turning a profit to be a goal in WMATA's charter, I'll concede the point. Otherwise I stand by it.

I call it dishonesty, along with promises that the entire Adopted Regional System would be built for not more than $2.55 billion. 

It is only because there are many Members of Congress that are terrified of doing the right thing, which is to increase motor fuel tax rates.

And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon. Clearly Congress isn't going to raise the gas tax for quite some time (ever?) so for the indefinite future, road projects will be "losing money" and drawing funding from the general fund.

As I see it, there are four choices.

(1) Do nothing, and let a very large capital asset deteriorate, Congo-style, until it is unusable.
(2) Turn the entire system over to private concession companies, and impose tolls on what has largely been a "free" system - this assures that transit will get little or nothing from highway users, at least at the federal level.
(3) Start tolling with milage-based user fees, and get rid of the motor fuel tax system - expensive to administer, and potential for abuse exists.
(4) Increase the motor fuel tax (maybe after one or several bridges fail because of inadequate inspection and maintenance).

[ARMOURERERIC]

What amazes me is how many transit system fares are less the the cost of gas only if I was to drive it myself.  I think any fare structure should be at least the price of fuel if driven solo.  Some examples:

The Breeze bus in North County San Diego charges $2.25 to go one way from Ramona CA to Escondido, a 22 mile run.

Friday I am taking Amtrak from San Diego to Burbank for only $33 AND it will be an hour less in transit time than driving.

[roadman65]

I was wondering about the Seven Corners Interchange near Falls Church, VA where US 50, VA 7, and Wilson Blvd. all intersect.  It seems like a very complicated interchange and signal arrangement as there are many different intersections within the intersection.  However, it all functions as one intersection and all the different signals operate as one.

From when I was there decades ago, I distinctly remember that on VA 7 there was a long wait time to pass across the intersection and that both the WB and EB US 50 ramps had their signals all turn green at one time.  In addition the left turns onto US 50 were fully protected but not individually as it seemed as long as the light, lets say, for VA 7 EB was green left turns could be made protected from WB traffic as long as the duration of the green.

I must assume that all takes place on all sides EB VA 7, WB US 50, EB US 50, and WB VA 7 where there are four separate phases for each allowing full protected turns.  However, there is the matter of Wilson Blvd. which ties into the WB US 50 offramp and has a signalized intersection with that ramp.  So in essence that would add another challenge to the mix.

I was wondering if anyone in the area knows how the Wilson Boulevard ties in as if there was a fifth phase in the timing of the overall signals, how would EB US 50 get across VA 7 to make their left as if it did the left turn from WB Wilson Blvd to EB VA 7 would be compromised?

[cpzilliacus]

I was wondering about the Seven Corners Interchange near Falls Church, VA where US 50, VA 7, and Wilson Blvd. all intersect.  It seems like a very complicated interchange and signal arrangement as there are many different intersections within the intersection.  However, it all functions as one intersection and all the different signals operate as one.

From when I was there decades ago, I distinctly remember that on VA 7 there was a long wait time to pass across the intersection and that both the WB and EB US 50 ramps had their signals all turn green at one time.  In addition the left turns onto US 50 were fully protected but not individually as it seemed as long as the light, lets say, for VA 7 EB was green left turns could be made protected from WB traffic as long as the duration of the green.

I must assume that all takes place on all sides EB VA 7, WB US 50, EB US 50, and WB VA 7 where there are four separate phases for each allowing full protected turns.  However, there is the matter of Wilson Blvd. which ties into the WB US 50 offramp and has a signalized intersection with that ramp.  So in essence that would add another challenge to the mix.

I was wondering if anyone in the area knows how the Wilson Boulevard ties in as if there was a fifth phase in the timing of the overall signals, how would EB US 50 get across VA 7 to make their left as if it did the left turn from WB Wilson Blvd to EB VA 7 would be compromised?

I do not remember the phasing, as I did not go through there that often when I first became licensed in 1974 at age 16 (and we always lived in Maryland), but I do not believe that things have changed much since then (though the signal system has been upgraded since then and is now presumably part of VDOT's Northern Virginia signals system).

I do remember the long waits to get through there on Va. 7 (Leesburg Pike), which seemed strange at the time, given that the at-grade intersection with U.S. 50 (Arlington Boulevard) was long gone (I think it may have been removed in the 1950's, before I was born).

Do not forget about Va. 338 (Hillwood Avenue), the easternmost tip of which is part of the Seven Corners intersection (the rest of it is within the City of Falls Church) - it has a signal so that westbound Va. 338 traffic can cross eastbound Va. 7; and Va. 613 Sleepy Hollow Road (right off/right on connection to the eastbound side of Va. 7)

Consider also that U.S. 50 was even more of an important street before the opening of I-66 inside the Capital Beltway in 1982.

[1995hoo]

I make it a point to avoid that intersection when possible, unless I'm just passing underneath on Route 50, because it simply takes too long to get through and there's too much traffic having to change lanes in too confined an area.

[cpzilliacus]

I make it a point to avoid that intersection when possible, unless I'm just passing underneath on Route 50, because it simply takes too long to get through and there's too much traffic having to change lanes in too confined an area.

Added bonus on Va. 7  - the speed limit enforcement just to the west of Seven Corners across the longest axis of the City of Falls Church.

I have found there to be more enforcement by the municipal Falls Church police on the westbound side of 7 (Broad Street within the city) than eastbound for reasons not clear to me.

[oscar]

Added bonus on Va. 7  - the speed limit enforcement just to the west of Seven Corners across the longest axis of the City of Falls Church.

I have found there to be more enforcement by the municipal Falls Church police on the westbound side of 7 (Broad Street within the city) than eastbound for reasons not clear to me.

I just treat the entire city as one big speed trap, and try to avoid it as much as possible (alas, most of my doctors have their offices in the city, so I can't completely avoid it). Fortunately, the city is only about 2.2 square miles, so unless you take route 7 along the city's long northwest-southeast axis, you're not there for long.

[1995hoo]

My brother lives in the City of Falls Church off Maple near where the duckpin bowling alley used to be, so I can't avoid the place entirely. I seldom have reason to use Route 7 between Seven Corners and Route 29, though. When I do, I get in the right lane and set my cruise control for about 26 or 27 mph (why not 25? It only works above 25 mph). There's always somebody eager to show me that I'm too slow.

[cpzilliacus]

Added bonus on Va. 7  - the speed limit enforcement just to the west of Seven Corners across the longest axis of the City of Falls Church.

I have found there to be more enforcement by the municipal Falls Church police on the westbound side of 7 (Broad Street within the city) than eastbound for reasons not clear to me.

I just treat the entire city as one big speed trap, and try to avoid it as much as possible (alas, most of my doctors have their offices in the city, so I can't completely avoid it). Fortunately, the city is only about 2.2 square miles, so unless you take route 7 along the city's long northwest-southeast axis, you're not there for long.

An excellent way to thoroughly annoy the cops there is to drive somewhat less than the citywide 25 MPH posted limit.  I have found that 20 MPH is fine, since it is not possible to make better time by speeding anyway.   Seeing non-Virginia tags on city streets makes some of them believe they have an easy mark for a speeding ticket, which they do not with me, and after a block or two at 20 MPH, they go someplace else.

[AlexandriaVA]

Given the frequency that pedestrians are struck and killed on the Bailey's side of Route 7 in the Kenmore area, I think that Falls Church is more than fine having Route 7 be 25 MPH.

If you want to go fast out west, take 66 or 50. Once the HOT lanes open, you won't have the HOV-2 excuse anymore either.

[cpzilliacus]

Given the frequency that pedestrians are struck and killed on the Bailey's side of Route 7 in the Kenmore area, I think that Falls Church is more than fine having Route 7 be 25 MPH.

If you want to go fast out west, take 66 or 50. Once the HOT lanes open, you won't have the HOV-2 excuse anymore either.

Kenmore?

I think you mean Culmore, right?

That area of Va. 7 (Leesburg Pike) is IMO not especially pedestrian-friendly, I agree (and Va. 7 there is built more to VDOT rural or exurban standards (wide, no median, no pedestrian refuges - for the most part, though there are sidewalks and marked crosswalks), not the narrower profile that road has through the City of Falls Church).  Lot of immigrants from Latin America in that area of Bailey's Crossroads.

In another area with a lot of immigrants, the Langley Park and Takoma/Langley Crossroads area of Montgomery and Prince George's Counties, the state has hardened the medians of Md. 193 and Md. 650 by building a barrier to discourage  mid-block pedestrian crossings, which are associated with pedestrian/motor vehicle crashes. 

As for using I-66 instead of Va. 7, I am sure there are some that will, but the two highways serve somewhat different travel markets.

[AlexandriaVA]

Kenmore?

I think you mean Culmore, right?

Guilty as charged

That area of Va. 7 (Leesburg Pike) is IMO not especially pedestrian-friendly, I agree (and Va. 7 there is built more to VDOT rural or exurban standards (wide, no median, no pedestrian refuges - for the most part, though there are sidewalks and marked crosswalks), not the narrower profile that road has through the City of Falls Church).  Lot of immigrants from Latin America in that area of Bailey's Crossroads.

In another area with a lot of immigrants, the Langley Park and Takoma/Langley Crossroads area of Montgomery and Prince George's Counties, the state has hardened the medians of Md. 193 and Md. 650 by building a barrier to discourage  mid-block pedestrian crossings, which are associated with pedestrian/motor vehicle crashes. 

The issue isn't immigrants or not. It's the fact that roads are fundamentally unsafe to cross. Columbia Pike corridor in Arlington has a lot of immigrants too, but the road is relatively narrow and has ample opportunities to cross safely and pedestrian accidents don't occur like they do in the other areas. Goes to show the benefits of when local government control major local roadways instead of indifferent State DOTs, which are usually only concerned with vehicles levels of service.

As for using I-66 instead of Va. 7, I am sure there are some that will, but the two highways serve somewhat different travel markets.

My point there is that if you're going from the core of the region to the western suburbs and you want go fast, find a carpooler or pay a toll (in the future) and take I-66. If you need to take the Beltway, FFX Parkway or VA-28 to get to where you need to go, you'll survive. Having VA-7 as a quasi-highway through the Bailey's is yet another example of VDOT valuing western Fairfax commuters more than Arlington, Alexandria and local residents.

[oscar]

Given the frequency that pedestrians are struck and killed on the Bailey's side of Route 7 in the Kenmore area, I think that Falls Church is more than fine having Route 7 be 25 MPH.

The Falls Church part of VA 7 is much different from the Bailey's Crossroad part. VA 7 in Falls Church east of US 29 is mostly residential, with not much pedestrian traffic, but lots of driveways which are the excuse for keeping that segment at 25mph. West of US 29, narrow with lots of businesses and some apartments, with the businesses and red lights (many with red-light cameras) slowing down traffic.

The Bailey's Crossroads part of VA 7 includes a mosque, with many worshipers living in the apartment complexes across the highway. Every Friday afternoon, I see county police out there stopping traffic to let crowds of pedestrians safely cross the highway to the mosque.

[AlexandriaVA]

Given the frequency that pedestrians are struck and killed on the Bailey's side of Route 7 in the Kenmore area, I think that Falls Church is more than fine having Route 7 be 25 MPH.

The Falls Church part of VA 7 is much different from the Bailey's Crossroad part. VA 7 in Falls Church east of US 29 is mostly residential, with not much pedestrian traffic, but lots of driveways which are the excuse for keeping that segment at 25mph. West of US 29, narrow with lots of businesses and some apartments, with the businesses and red lights (many with red-light cameras) slowing down traffic.

The Bailey's Crossroads part of VA 7 includes a mosque, with many worshipers living in the apartment complexes across the highway. Every Friday afternoon, I see county police out there stopping traffic to let crowds of pedestrians safely cross the highway to the mosque.

Well at least there's pedestrian safety one day a week.

[cpzilliacus]

My point there is that if you're going from the core of the region to the western suburbs and you want go fast, find a carpooler or pay a toll (in the future) and take I-66. If you need to take the Beltway, FFX Parkway or VA-28 to get to where you need to go, you'll survive. Having VA-7 as a quasi-highway through the Bailey's is yet another example of VDOT valuing western Fairfax commuters more than Arlington, Alexandria and local residents.

In VDOT's defense, the Va. 7 corridor was a major state highway running between Alexandria, Falls Church, Leesburg, Purcellville and Winchester years before the growth of the 20th Century happened (and when VDOT did not exist, and things were done by the VDH (Virginia Department of Highways)).

Note that I deliberately did not mention Tysons Corner, which was just a rural crossloads when the Va. 7 was first routed along what is now signed that way.

[AlexandriaVA]

My point there is that if you're going from the core of the region to the western suburbs and you want go fast, find a carpooler or pay a toll (in the future) and take I-66. If you need to take the Beltway, FFX Parkway or VA-28 to get to where you need to go, you'll survive. Having VA-7 as a quasi-highway through the Bailey's is yet another example of VDOT valuing western Fairfax commuters more than Arlington, Alexandria and local residents.

In VDOT's defense, the Va. 7 corridor was a major state highway running between Alexandria, Falls Church, Leesburg, Purcellville and Winchester years before the growth of the 20th Century happened (and when VDOT did not exist, and things were done by the VDH (Virginia Department of Highways)).

Note that I deliberately did not mention Tysons Corner, which was just a rural crossloads when the Va. 7 was first routed along what is now signed that way.

So how long before they make changes to correct the situation? It's been going on about 70 years since WWII and the explosive growth took off in this area. 70 years and they still don't even have a bus that runs from King Street Station to Tysons Corner all the way on Route 7.

[oscar]

So how long before they make changes to correct the situation? It's been going on about 70 years since WWII and the explosive growth took off in this area. 70 years and they still don't even have a bus that runs from King Street Station to Tysons Corner all the way on Route 7.

Metrobus route 28A comes pretty close to that, a straight shot (except for a few short detours) from the King Street station to Tysons Corner.

[AlexandriaVA]

So how long before they make changes to correct the situation? It's been going on about 70 years since WWII and the explosive growth took off in this area. 70 years and they still don't even have a bus that runs from King Street Station to Tysons Corner all the way on Route 7.

Metrobus route 28A comes pretty close to that, a straight shot (except for a few short detours) from the King Street station to Tysons Corner.

28A is no good if you live on King between Bradlee and Bailey's. There are plenty of us who live there.

And there isn't even a lesser-frequency bus than the 28A to fill in the gap. Just nothing.

[cpzilliacus]

So how long before they make changes to correct the situation? It's been going on about 70 years since WWII and the explosive growth took off in this area. 70 years and they still don't even have a bus that runs from King Street Station to Tysons Corner all the way on Route 7.

That part of Va. 7 (around Baileys Crossroads) is little changed since I first saw it, in the 1960's (we had an aunt and uncle that lived west of there in Fairfax County (mail address was Falls Church)).

Even then, I think the intersection of Va. 7 and Va. 244 was grade-separated (note that I am not 100% certain).

As for who to talk with, I would think that the Fairfax County planning staff would be a good place to start. 

A lot of what VDOT does on its primary highway network happens as a result of requests from county governments, even though the road is owned and maintained by VDOT and not by the county.