Virginia

[hbelkins]

scholarly articles

Written by viatologists? 

[jakeroot]

scholarly articles

Written by viatologists? 

I think that predates me

[Beltway]

"CBS This Morning" is a tabloid show.

shit man, all news media is. But we don't all have access to scholarly articles. Even those of us who do (hi!) don't care enough to scour around for hours to prove a point that you'll just refute anyways. Arguing with you really is pointless.

I cited a newspaper article in my previous post, I am not disagreeing necessarily with many things that get posted, there are some areas of concern; however, it is always good to be analytical but not the "paralysis of analysis."  Try to rightly divide the word of truth.

I don't know why it is so important to travel at 80 to 85 mph or more, at least in eastern seaboard population densities; certainly not for me.  Since is far above the speed limits, it is breaking the law; and if people want to break the law, then I don't need to comment, unless it keeps showing up on my computer monitor; then sometimes I may get annoyed enough at those who keep regaling the group about their speeds and their complaints about the government, that I may make some comments that may inconvenience some people.

[SSOWorld]

"CBS This Morning" is a tabloid show.

shit man, all news media is. But we don't all have access to scholarly articles. Even those of us who do (hi!) don't care enough to scour around for hours to prove a point that you'll just refute anyways. Arguing with you really is pointless.

I cited a newspaper article in my previous post, I am not disagreeing necessarily with many things that get posted, there are some areas of concern; however, it is always good to be analytical but not the "paralysis of analysis."  Try to rightly divide the word of truth.

I don't know why it is so important to travel at 80 to 85 mph or more, at least in eastern seaboard population densities; certainly not for me.  Since is far above the speed limits, it is breaking the law; and if people want to break the law, then I don't need to comment, unless it keeps showing up on my computer monitor; then sometimes I may get annoyed enough at those who keep regaling the group about their speeds and their complaints about the government, that I may make some comments that may inconvenience some people.

To catch up with traffic

[sprjus4]

If I'm alone on a 70 mph highway, more than likely I'll travel 73 - 75 mph. However, if the traffic is flowing 78 - 82 mph, I'll usually match those speeds naturally to keep with the flow. If it's over ~82 mph though, I won't go beyond that.

Then there's I-64 east of Richmond where everybody thinks the speed limit is 60 or 65 mph and it's impossible to travel any faster, usually due to people ten cars up who are traveling 60 - 65 mph in both lanes with a wide open clearing for miles in front of them who refuse to move over. Every single time I travel this road. Anywhere else, non-existent unless there's trucks.

[Beltway]

I don't know why it is so important to travel at 80 to 85 mph or more, at least in eastern seaboard population densities; certainly not for me.  Since is far above the speed limits, it is breaking the law; and if people want to break the law, then I don't need to comment, unless it keeps showing up on my computer monitor; then sometimes I may get annoyed enough at those who keep regaling the group about their speeds and their complaints about the government, that I may make some comments that may inconvenience some people.

To catch up with traffic

Yeah, that is one of the claims that they make, and some were making it on the Usenet newsgroups misc.transport.road and rec.autos.driving back in the day.  Maybe out West and on the Great Plains, perhaps. 

Like I said my estimate (not claiming it to be scientific but hundreds of trips) I-95 Richmond-Washington would be about 10% or so.

[Beltway]

Then there's I-64 east of Richmond where everybody thinks the speed limit is 60 or 65 mph and it's impossible to travel any faster, usually due to people ten cars up who are traveling 60 - 65 mph in both lanes with a wide open clearing for miles in front of them who refuse to move over. Every single time I travel this road. Anywhere else, non-existent unless there's trucks.

During peak travel periods it can get slower than that.  Non-peak there have been many times where I could set the cruise control on 78 mph and only occasionally have to slow due to a bunch of slower vehicles.

[sprjus4]

Non-peak there have been many times where I could set the cruise control on 78 mph and only occasionally have to slow due to a bunch of slower vehicles.

You must have gotten lucky then. I travel the corridor occasionally during off-peak times (during peak travel periods, I'll usually go US-460), and always seem to get caught behind 60 - 65 mph traffic, and it's usually packs of cars that have empty space for miles in front. After getting past them having to pass using both lanes back and forth because nobody knows what left lane for passing only is (I suppose cars traveling in the left lane at 66 mph passing those on the right at 65 mph is technically "passing"), there's another pack a mile past them doing the same exact thing. I recall one time where I passed about 15 cars on the right at 75 mph when they were all in the left lane doing 63 - 65 mph (speed limit 70 mph). At least they were in one lane so passing was easier, but it's still ridiculous. My latest return trip heading eastbound around 8 pm wasn't terrible, the highway was full though traffic was flowing 75 - 80 mph. I always seem to get the worst luck westbound.

[Beltway]

Non-peak there have been many times where I could set the cruise control on 78 mph and only occasionally have to slow due to a bunch of slower vehicles.

You must have gotten lucky then. I travel the corridor occasionally during off-peak times (during peak travel periods, I'll usually go US-460), and always seem to get caught behind 60 - 65 mph traffic, and it's usually packs of cars that have empty space for miles in front. After getting past them having to pass using both lanes back and forth because nobody knows what left lane for passing only is (I suppose cars traveling in the left lane at 66 mph passing those on the right at 65 mph is technically "passing"), there's another pack a mile past them doing the same exact thing. I recall one time where I passed about 15 cars on the right at 75 mph when they were all in the left lane doing 63 - 65 mph (speed limit 70 mph). At least they were in one lane so passing was easier, but it's still ridiculous. My latest return trip heading eastbound around 8 pm wasn't terrible, the highway was full though traffic was flowing 75 - 80 mph. I always seem to get the worst luck westbound.

It sounds like your travels are in peak or near peak hours.

I seldom travel it at such times, but then neither at low times (such as wee hours) either.

[sprjus4]

^

Nonetheless, I-64 needs to be completed to a minimum of 6 lanes between Williamsburg and Richmond, and 8 lanes (1 HOV each way, though presumably HO/T with their new system) between Williamsburg and Newport News.

It's taken long enough, and the remaining segments still remain unfunded.

[Beltway]

Nonetheless, I-64 needs to be completed to a minimum of 6 lanes between Williamsburg and Richmond, and 8 lanes (1 HOV each way, though presumably HO/T with their new system) between Williamsburg and Newport News.

Of course.  Three lanes is much superior over two lanes for handling high volumes in peak periods.

It's taken long enough, and the remaining segments still remain unfunded.

Much as we may disagree with much of what the General Assembly is doing, there is legislation for an 8 cent per gallon motor fuel tax increase that might become 12 cents and a $1 billion annual increase, and there is talk of creating a regional transportation authority for central Virginia, and advancing the Powhite Parkway Western Extension among other projects.  Like I-64 widening.

[sprjus4]

advancing the Powhite Parkway Western Extension

That's still a proposal? I thought they eliminated that years back. Nonetheless, that project, along with I-64 and I-95 widenings are among some of the projects for central VA that are needed. I'd put the US-460 toll road up there as well, but we all know that's never being revived.

Have the existing Powhite Pkwy and VA-288 reached volumes to the point they will eventually need 6-lane widening as well?

[Beltway]

advancing the Powhite Parkway Western Extension

That's still a proposal? I thought they eliminated that years back.

It is on the 2019  Chesterfield County Thoroughfare Plan
https://www.chesterfield.gov/DocumentCenter/View/1322/Thoroughfare-Plan-PDF

Have the existing Powhite Pkwy and VA-288 reached volumes to the point they will eventually need 6-lane widening as well?

I worked on the design of the Powhite Parkway Extension in the early 1980s.  The section between VA-150 and just west of US-60 was built on a cross-section for a future 3rd lane on each side.  I would say that it warrants 6 lanes based on what I have seen there in peak hours.

Not sure about VA-288 but it does congest sometimes during peak hours in the VA-6 and US-360 areas.  Several schemes are being studied on how to expand the US-360 interchange.

[amroad17]

Update on the 2045 Long Range Transportation Plan planning process for the Hampton Roads region.

Comments were received on the candidate projects, notably from the Southern Environmental Law Center (SELC).

They have and will continue to oppose the following projects -
1) New Route 460 (Suffolk to Zuni) - New location freeway paralleling the existing US-460. Expensive, little benefits, severe wetland impact, score poor on SmartScale, VDOT scrapped.

2) Route 460/58/13 Connector - Upgrade to interstate standards & potential 8-lane widening of US-58 between I-664 and Suffolk. Existing capacity adequate through 2040, enormous impacts on wetlands, VDOT scrapped study.

3) Southeastern Pkwy & Greenbelt - New location freeway through Chesapeake and Virginia Beach paralleling Clearfield Ave, Elbow Rd, Dam Neck Rd, and Oceana Blvd. High wetland impact. "Climate change" makes impact worse today more than 2010.

4) Nimmo Pkwy Phase VII-B - New location roadway parallel to narrow and windy Sandbridge Rd. Serious wildlife, habitat, and wetland impact.

They also recommend "close scrutiny" for the any Bowers Hill Interchange proposals, which in their terms means they will oppose any proposal once its officially put out there. Concepts were revealed earlier this year, however they are now re-evaluating it to include a continuous HO/T lane network through the interchange tying in with a potential I-664 HO/T system.

Throughout March, cost estimates and prioritization scores will be developed for all of the candidate projects.

Finally, an interactive map displaying all of the candidate projects has been created - http://hrpdc-gis.maps.arcgis.com/apps/MapSeries/index.html?appid=b8852614e73a42bfa3730963d216f2ab

https://www.hrtpo.org/uploads/docs/030420%2000A%20Full%20Agenda%28new%29.pdf

It is nice that there is a 25-year long range plan concerning the future traffic situation in the Hampton Roads area, however, this has been attempted before--specifically in the 1980's, although not in as much detail as now.

The Southeastern Parkway has been discussed since the late 1970's, yet nothing has been done to complete it.  Hold on, there was the proposed routing.  I know about that because in the 1980's, there were small signs posted on Elbow Road to let one know that this was where the future route of the Southeastern Parkway was going to be built.  Now, if this was attempted in the late 1980's, the proposed routing on the interactive map (section from VA 168 northeast of Great Bridge to I-264 in Va. Beach) could have been built without much disruption to houses and businesses.  Now, forget about it!  Also, why would the section next to the Oak Grove Connector be built?  That would be silly and redundant.

Two of the three other projects that SELC opposes and the one that would be under "close scrutiny" are needed.  No, Nimmo Parkway does not need to be extended to Sandbridge Road.  There has to be some rustic charm left in Va. Beach.  When my family lived there, we preferred going to Sandbridge rather than the Va. Beach Oceanfront--more laid back and quiet.  US 460 needs to be improved from the Suffolk Bypass all the way to at least Wagner Road near Petersburg.  US 13/58/460 through the edge of the Dismal Swamp should be upgraded to, at the very least, freeway standards with an upgraded Bowers Hill interchange included in this.

There are many projects on this interactive map that really needed to be completed 20-25 years ago--mainly road widenings and the Southeastern Parkway.

The traffic in the Hampton Roads area has become a lot busier than it was when I moved to Northern Kentucky in late 1994.  I-664 and the Western Freeway (VA 164) had just been completed two years prior (of course, not counting the Port Norfolk connector which was completed 10 years after I moved), the Oak Grove Connector had not been started, Dominion Blvd. was still VA 104, and the Va. Beach-Norfolk Expressway was still VA 44, along with a few other projects not mentioned.  The improvements made to vehicle transportation in the last 25 years has opened up the area to the population increase seen, especially in Chesapeake, Va. Beach, and northern Suffolk, and with that, an increase in traffic--which is being addressed in the 2045 Long Range Plan.

It is a shame some of this wasn't acted upon 30+ years ago.

Sure beats discussing whether or not 81 mph is reckless (it really isn't as long as the speed limit is 70 and the road is engineered for it).  It is fast, yes, but not reckless--unless a driver is constantly changing lanes doing 81+, that I would consider reckless.

[1995hoo]

....

Sure beats discussing whether or not 81 mph is reckless (it really isn't as long as the speed limit is 70 and the road is engineered for it).  It is fast, yes, but not reckless--unless a driver is constantly changing lanes doing 81+, that I would consider reckless.

I would submit that sort of behavior (weaving in and out, tailgating, etc.) can be reckless regardless of the driver's raw speed. That is, if there's heavy traffic and most of the traffic is moving at 55—60 due to the congestion, someone weaving in and out trying to go 65—70 might well be acting recklessly as well, and current Virginia law does allow for a reckless ticket if the cop deems it appropriate. That is, a lot of people out there (probably not the people on this forum, of course), tend to forget that the "20 over or in excess of 80" law is not the only basis for a reckless driving ticket in Virginia.

[Beltway]

The Southeastern Parkway has been discussed since the late 1970's, yet nothing has been done to complete it.  Hold on, there was the proposed routing.  I know about that because in the 1980's, there were small signs posted on Elbow Road to let one know that this was where the future route of the Southeastern Parkway was going to be built.  Now, if this was attempted in the late 1980's, the proposed routing on the interactive map (section from VA 168 northeast of Great Bridge to I-264 in Va. Beach) could have been built without much disruption to houses and businesses. 

Has the FHWA and ACOE ever approved it?  It has very high wetlands impacts for 21 miles of highway.

"The highway has been on the back burner since 2010, when the Federal Highway Administration rejected it because it would be built on 170 acres of wetlands."
Article from 2015:
https://www.pilotonline.com/opinion/article_37f8a7ee-9cc4-5dc8-88c0-06237a1ffb26.html

US 460 needs to be improved from the Suffolk Bypass all the way to at least Wagner Road near Petersburg.

It needs to be completely relocated onto a modern alignment.  The existing highway would be very expensive to upgrade to modern standards, at least two town bypasses are needed, and the only result would be a somewhat better arterial highway.

US 13/58/460 through the edge of the Dismal Swamp should be upgraded to, at the very least, freeway standards with an upgraded Bowers Hill interchange included in this.

Priority will be seen on these projects, IMO.

[amroad17]

^ The proximity to Stumpy Lake, the North Landing River, and the marshy area east of Oceana are most likely the reasons this project was never attempted.  I was opining that this may have had a better chance to be built in the late 1980's if the wetlands issue could have ever been resolved.

US 460 does need to be on a relocated, modern alignment--constructed like OH 32 (Appalachian Corridor D) or US 48 (Appalachian Corridor H).

[Beltway]

US 460 does need to be on a relocated, modern alignment--constructed like OH 32 (Appalachian Corridor D) or US 48 (Appalachian Corridor H).

Higher design than that. 

Full freeway standards like the southerly approved route CBA 1 as approved by the CTB in 2005 and the Final EIS and Record of Decision was signed and approved by FHWA in 2008.

[sprjus4]

The Southeastern Parkway has been discussed since the late 1970's, yet nothing has been done to complete it.  Hold on, there was the proposed routing.  I know about that because in the 1980's, there were small signs posted on Elbow Road to let one know that this was where the future route of the Southeastern Parkway was going to be built.  Now, if this was attempted in the late 1980's, the proposed routing on the interactive map (section from VA 168 northeast of Great Bridge to I-264 in Va. Beach) could have been built without much disruption to houses and businesses.  Now, forget about it!  Also, why would the section next to the Oak Grove Connector be built?  That would be silly and redundant.

As of 2010, this was the proposed routing. It's very similar / the same to the southern alternative outlined in the Location Study in the 1980s.


Back in the 1980s when the concept was introduced, it was mainly to traverse wetlands and forested areas, despite large amounts of farmland also available in the path. This was one of its biggest issues from the beginning. Today, the only path that remains available is that wetlands and forested path as all of the farmland now has been largely developed. Had they chosen a less impactful route from the beginning when there was lots of land, it more than likely would've been built in some form.

It was also originally planned as an 8-lane freeway for its entire length. This has been downsized to a 4-lane freeway with tolls in the more recent proposals.

Despite the map showing a new (incorrect) routing parallel to the Oak Grove Connector, the actual proposal ties into the Great Bridge Bypass south of Kempsville and overlays it up to I-64. This would involve 8-lane widening of the Oak Grove Connector, though with today's volumes it needs widening to 8-lanes down to VA-165 including a new parallel Intracoastal Waterway bridge regardless if the parkway is built. The 2045 LRTP Candidate Projects features a project to do this, along with widening to 6-lanes between VA-165 and Hillcrest Pkwy.

If there's -any- chance of it ever resurrecting, it would have to be built in phases and utilize existing roadways where possible.

Here are potential SIUs in order of priority -
1) VA-168 widening to 8-lanes
2) VA-168 to Elbow Road east of Centerville Tpke - New location 4-lane freeway, tying into the proposed Elbow Rd 4-lane project.
3) Princess Anne Rd to Oceana Blvd - New location 4-lane freeway
4) Oceana Blvd to I-264 - Upgrade the existing Oceana Blvd to freeway standards using the existing footprint of the 55 mph expressway (with the 30 ft median), then new connector to I-264 on the northern end.
5) Elbow Rd at Virginia Beach city line to Princess Anne Rd - New location 4-lane freeway tying into the proposed Elbow Rd 4-lane project on the western end and a completed Southeastern Pkwy segment on the eastern end.
6) Elbow Rd between east of Centerville Tpke and the Virginia Beach city line - Upgrade the proposed Elbow Road 4-lane project to freeway standards using the existing footprint of the proposed project which if I recall would be built to at least expressway standards (wider curves, paved shoulders, etc.) (likely a reduced 30 ft median).

Speaking of Elbow Rd, the city of Chesapeake is set to begin construction in the next couple of years on Elbow Rd phase #2 which would widen Elbow Rd between east of Centerville Tpke and the Virginia Beach city line to have 12 foot lanes and a right 4 foot paved shoulder with right of way for future 4-lane. Options include a typical widening, whereas another would build a new one-way 1-lane carriageway parallel to the existing, convert the existing to one-way 1-lane, and have a 2-lane expressway divided by a depressed median.

http://www.cityofchesapeake.net/Assets/documents/departments/public_works/Brochures/Citizen+Information+Meeting+-+Elbow+Road+Widening+Phase+2+Brochure.pdf

Two of the three other projects that SELC opposes and the one that would be under "close scrutiny" are needed.  No, Nimmo Parkway does not need to be extended to Sandbridge Road.  There has to be some rustic charm left in Va. Beach.  When my family lived there, we preferred going to Sandbridge rather than the Va. Beach Oceanfront--more laid back and quiet.

Debateful. Sandbridge remains the beach primarily for locals, but Sandbridge Rd sees a high amount of traffic during the summer, and the roadway has too many substandard features to handle this load, including narrow roadway, sharp curves, etc. and not to mention it's subject to flooding. The parkway extension would only be 2-lanes, not 4-lanes. IMO, it's needed.

There are many projects on this interactive map that really needed to be completed 20-25 years ago--mainly road widenings and the Southeastern Parkway.

Agreed the Southeastern Pkwy is needed, though in today's environment it will never be built.

Has the FHWA and ACOE ever approved it?  It has very high wetlands impacts for 21 miles of highway.

No, and will likely never will, but nonetheless it's a needed project that should've been built 40 years ago when proposed in the 1980s as an 8-lane freeway. Now, it's been downsized to a 4-lane toll road, wetland impacts seem to have gone up, the cost has skyrocketed, and close proximity to newer developments presents further challenges.

Priority will be seen on these projects, IMO.

The Bowers Hill Interchange is a priority, though the US-58 / US-13 / US-460 connector study was scrapped by VDOT last year. It'd be nice to have and will eventually be needed, though it's an expensive project and there's higher priorities in the area. The existing highway is a high-capacity 6-lane expressway that practically functions as a 70 mph freeway that doesn't have any traffic issues unless there's an accident. I'd argue widening the Suffolk Bypass to 6-lanes is a higher priority then upgrading the connector. Once the major widenings and bridge-tunnel expansions are completed in the next 10 years, then we can turn the focus on these smaller priority, more expensive projects.

Full freeway standards like the southerly approved route CBA 1 as approved by the CTB in 2005 and the Final EIS and Record of Decision was signed and approved by FHWA in 2008.

The entire corridor would have to go through an entirely new NEPA process if it was ever resurrected.

Given today's climate, projects such as the US-460 relocation and the Southeastern Pkwy may never see the light of day. The only possible way I could see it if it was built in bite size phases, though if the Suffolk to Zuni proposal was any indication, that may not even be possible.

[tolbs17]

If that southeastern parkway was built, I think that's where I-87 should go.

They have a little similar project (although it's a little shorter), being studied.

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/article_896fd3fa-73bd-5ffa-aecf-f6887e873ede.html


__________________________________

https://www.bayjournal.com/article/new_virginia_route_would_impact_nearly_480_acres_of_wetlands

When looking at this, I think this should be I-56 or I-62. If it was being built as a full freeway. It's supposed to help I-64 traffic, especially with the trucks.

It says a four lane highway, so it may not be a freeway. It could be similar to US 17 in North Carolina.

[sprjus4]

If that southeastern parkway was built, I think that's where I-87 should go.

If it even makes it to Virginia, more than likely it would not go beyond the I-64 / I-464 junction from US-17. The only extension I could ever see is replacing I-464.

I couldn't see the Southeastern Pkwy, if ever built, getting an interstate highway designation.

They have a little similar project (although it's a little shorter), being studied.

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/article_896fd3fa-73bd-5ffa-aecf-f6887e873ede.html

There's no project being studied anymore. That article practically says the parkway is dead.

https://www.bayjournal.com/article/new_virginia_route_would_impact_nearly_480_acres_of_wetlands

When looking at this, I think this should be I-56 or I-62. If it was being built as a full freeway. It's supposed to help I-64 traffic, especially with the trucks.

It says a four lane highway, so it may not be a freeway. It could be similar to US 17 in North Carolina.

The previous plan for the US-460 relocation was a 4-lane divided highway built to full interstate standards.

[Jmiles32]

advancing the Powhite Parkway Western Extension

That's still a proposal? I thought they eliminated that years back.

It is on the 2019  Chesterfield County Thoroughfare Plan
https://www.chesterfield.gov/DocumentCenter/View/1322/Thoroughfare-Plan-PDF

Have the existing Powhite Pkwy and VA-288 reached volumes to the point they will eventually need 6-lane widening as well?

Not sure about VA-288 but it does congest sometimes during peak hours in the VA-6 and US-360 areas.  Several schemes are being studied on how to expand the US-360 interchange.

https://www.virginiadot.org/info/resources/Traffic_2018/AADT_PrimaryInterstate_2018.pdf

According to this VA-288 seems to average traffic volumes from around 40,000 to nearly 60,000 (near the US-360 interchange). I would assume these volumes will only increase as development seems to keep creeping west in the Woodlake area. IMO these traffic volumes warrant at least discussion of 6 lane widening in some areas (Between US-60 and US-360, Vicinity of VA-6 interchange) and is a far better solution than the highly unlikely to ever get built east-west freeway. Agreed however that significantly improving the US-360 interchange should probably be first priority. I'll be interested to see what the designs for that end up being.

On a related note, I think the creation of a Central Virginia Transportation Authority would be very helpful to the region in expediating many of these potential and currently needed projects.  Without one, I would not be surprised if more new HOT lanes plans come up...

[sprjus4]

Hampton Roads has a TPO and special tax and over the next 5-10 years will be getting a completed HO/T lane network along I-64 and eventually I-664.

I would not be surprised if Richmond were to get HO/T lanes in the future given how much Virginia is obsessed with them for any lane widening project in urban areas.

[Jmiles32]

Hampton Roads has a TPO and special tax and over the next 5-10 years will be getting a completed HO/T lane network along I-64 and eventually I-664.

True and so has Northern Virginia. However, I think the main reason behind that is because the state fell so far behind in funding numerous important/massive transportation projects in these regions. In the Richmond area, I don't believe this has happened yet, with only a few notable exceptions.

[sprjus4]

True and so has Northern Virginia. However, I think the main reason behind that is because the state fell so far behind in funding numerous important/massive transportation projects in these regions.

The HRBT and I-64 High Rise Bridge projects are largely tax-dollar funded, with only limited amounts of funding coming from toll revenue. The reason they are building HO/T lanes instead of general purpose lanes is because they belief that's the solution to get better traffic throughput for all lanes.