Instate building design mistake between states?

[ledzep30513]

Does anyone remember a photograph, from many years ago, that shows the end of an Interstate that did not actually continue? It showed the continuation of the pavement about 50feet or more to its south or north. I believe it occurred at a state line. Don't know which states were involved. The photo was on the cover of a nationwide or regional magazine. I can't find the magazine and I have been looking for quite some time. I believe it happened in the mid-fifties as that is when the states took it upon themselves to build the Eisenhower interstates that were within their borders and when they met the neighboring state, someone miscalculated where they would meet. As it turned out, one of the states had to back up and use a bit more real estate to create a curved portion of road to meet the other road surface. I not only am interested in finding the magazine, but in going to the spot of the mistake.
Thanks to any and all who can help me, Jim

[TheHighwayMan3561]

Pre-Interstate, but the Kansas Turnpike stopped at the Oklahoma state line like this (looking noerh from Oklahoma)

[ledzep30513]

I have seen that photo before, but the one I'm searching for does have another section of pavement that didn't meet up as planned and they were about 50-75' apart and neither one would admit to having made the mistake. As I understand it, there was an argument over which would back up and curve to meet the other one. I also understand it was actually in use as originally built and the motorist had to basically stop at the end of their pavement turn and go thru what was an imaginary median and start again on the new pavement. It did, of course, cause a number of accidents and startled drivers. I have been told this story from the brother of someone who traveled this road on a motorcycle and almost wrecked it because he didn't know it was coming up!   

[pderocco]

That sounds farfetched. A misalignment like that might not be noticed in the design phase, if the two road departments didn't look at each other's plans, but as soon as the land was surveyed, it would be a screamingly obvious error.

But if it did happen, I figure it would have to be:

• In a desert or grassland, where there are no geographic features to constrain the road
• Not crossing a river, since an interstate bridge would require the states to work together
• Not a road that runs alongside a railroad, since that would probably be built over an existing US highway.

If this really is along a state line, an hour or two of scanning Google Earth might find it. I would think the scars from the old alignment would still be visible, at least in the historical imagery from the 1990s.

[bwana39]

I-49 at the Arkansas / LA border required a curve to meet.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Uieyo3sR2GmtBQej6

[Rothman]

I-49 at the Arkansas / LA border required a curve to meet.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Uieyo3sR2GmtBQej6

That doesn't look like a mistake.

[oscar]

^^ A gentle curve, with no posted reduction in the speed limit (75 mph for cars on both sides of the state line).

[ledzep30513]

As I understand it the cars and other vehicles at the time were all 30's,40's and 50's models and the speed limit would have been whatever was the original posted number, if there even was one at the time. My source is my my wife's first cousins husband and he is a full time RVer and he told me he had the magazine in his hand and saw the photo of the misalignment. We both are still looking for the photo and the magazine, he cannot remember the magazines name or to many other details. It's only been 50 or so years since he saw it. The motorcycle part of the story was told to him by the man who experienced it, sadly now deceased.
             I would tend to believe that in the mid to late 50's that the communication between the states as they built the interstates would or could be full of mistakes/omissions/errors. Living in todays information at your fingertips world, it would be hard to imagine such errors. In that time period, it would have been US mail maybe telephone and I'm sure a number of in-person meetings, but without precision measurements, think GPS coordinates. I would tend to believe it could be possible to be off only by 50' or 75'.

[RobbieL2415]

Before the Mass Pike was designated I-90 and completed into NY, it ended abruptly right at the border at MA 101/NY 980D.

The stub is still visible:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3490569,-73.4108563,306m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

[Rothman]

Before the Mass Pike was designated I-90 and completed into NY, it ended abruptly right at the border at MA 101/NY 980D.

The stub is still visible:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3490569,-73.4108563,306m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

MA 102...

[kphoger]

Before the Mass Pike was designated I-90 and completed into NY, it ended abruptly right at the border at MA 101/NY 980D.

The stub is still visible:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3490569,-73.4108563,306m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

MA 102...

Also known as "MASS 102", apparently.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Bu1rz6drF81UVbbm9

[fhmiii]

Most likely what your acquaintance saw was a well-drawn rendering of such a mistake.  Magazines like Popular Mechanics and Time often used to use high-quality black-and-white drawings to illustrate potential errors or happenstances where none existed.  Some were almost photo-realistic, and your friend's recollection could be filling in the details.

It wouldn't surprise me if a magazine from the 1940s or 1950s wanted to lampoon the proposed Interstate Highway or any other freeway System with such a rendering.

[formulanone]

I've driven on a few two-lane roads where there's a gentle swerve between two county lines or even a state line, so there had to be somewhat of a misunderstanding, or just the result of very old surveying techniques.

Not aware of a major construction project like an interstate highway having a major error like that; I figure that someone would have mentioned it by now.

[kphoger]

I've driven on a few two-lane roads where there's a gentle swerve between two county lines or even a state line, so there had to be somewhat of a misunderstanding, or just the result of very old surveying techniques.

Not necessarily "very old surveying techniques".  Could just be the result of building a rectangular road grid on the surface of an oblate spheroid.  Eventually, the lines get "off" and need to be corrected.

Then there's Kansas City.  KCMO was surveyed using magnetic north, while KCK was surveyed using true/geographic north, which has resulted in their two grids' being off from each other by around 3°.

[Rothman]

Before the Mass Pike was designated I-90 and completed into NY, it ended abruptly right at the border at MA 101/NY 980D.

The stub is still visible:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3490569,-73.4108563,306m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

MA 102...

Also known as "MASS 102", apparently.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Bu1rz6drF81UVbbm9

Or, locals are likely to say, "Root 102"

[freebrickproductions]

I've driven on a few two-lane roads where there's a gentle swerve between two county lines or even a state line, so there had to be somewhat of a misunderstanding, or just the result of very old surveying techniques.

Not necessarily "very old surveying techniques".  Could just be the result of building a rectangular road grid on the surface of an oblate spheroid.  Eventually, the lines get "off" and need to be corrected.

Then there's Kansas City.  KCMO was surveyed using magnetic north, while KCK was surveyed using true/geographic north, which has resulted in their two grids' being off from each other by around 3°.

And then you have the US-Canada border, which has a long straight* line that was done by a handful of explorers and a ball of string many years ago.

[jlam]

Then there's Kansas City.  KCMO was surveyed using magnetic north, while KCK was surveyed using true/geographic north, which has resulted in their two grids' being off from each other by around 3°.

Thanks, now my day is ruined.

[kphoger]

Then there's Kansas City.  KCMO was surveyed using magnetic north, while KCK was surveyed using true/geographic north, which has resulted in their two grids' being off from each other by around 3°.

Thanks, now my day is ruined.

You're welcome!

[SectorZ]

I've driven on a few two-lane roads where there's a gentle swerve between two county lines or even a state line, so there had to be somewhat of a misunderstanding, or just the result of very old surveying techniques.

Not necessarily "very old surveying techniques".  Could just be the result of building a rectangular road grid on the surface of an oblate spheroid.  Eventually, the lines get "off" and need to be corrected.

Then there's Kansas City.  KCMO was surveyed using magnetic north, while KCK was surveyed using true/geographic north, which has resulted in their two grids' being off from each other by around 3°.

I wonder how much KCMO is off of magnetic north now. I guess whoever surveyed it wasn't aware that magnetic north is not a fixed position.

[Scott5114]

What's amazing is how well concealed this fact is on the ground. You don't get the sense that anything is misaligned at all when crossing State Line Road.

[kphoger]

I wonder how much KCMO is off of magnetic north now. I guess whoever surveyed it wasn't aware that magnetic north is not a fixed position.

Not like it matters.  Is there any real reason they should have cared that magnetic north is not a fixed position?

What's amazing is how well concealed this fact is on the ground. You don't get the sense that anything is misaligned at all when crossing State Line Road.

Just barely.  Here's the view down 72nd Street across the state line.  There's a slight bend at the intersection.

[Dirt Roads]

Similar to the issues with True North vs. Magnetic North, there are subtle differences at the edges of each of the local GIS grids.  For smaller projects that cross these grids, most planners and design engineers simply utilize a fake grid that encompasses the entire project and nobody is the wiser.  But on longer projects that cross these grids, design engineers need to use a more robust geospatial platform that can line up everything correctly, adjusting for the Earth's curvature.  [Sorry, I've worked on some of these projects but have no experience to explain further].

I've worked on a bunch of long rail projects (often with related highway relocations) where the planning folks don't come to the table with a coordinated geospatial system.  Since each line section gets dropped into its own fake grid, none of the alignments match up with each other between line segments.  That's not a problem for planning purposes, but the civil engineers usually worry that somebody with take off with the planning drawings and reuse them for construction purposes later.  When there are three or more line sections, you know this isn't going to end well.  [For the record, the first line section planner to get their preliminary engineering drawings "correct" usually forces all of the others to make adjustments to their fake grids to get things lined up end-to-end.  Guilty as charged.

[Rothman]

Planning folks?  In NY, surveying is in Design.

[jeffandnicole]

Does anyone remember a photograph, from many years ago, that shows the end of an Interstate that did not actually continue? It showed the continuation of the pavement about 50feet or more to its south or north. I believe it occurred at a state line. Don't know which states were involved. The photo was on the cover of a nationwide or regional magazine. I can't find the magazine and I have been looking for quite some time. I believe it happened in the mid-fifties as that is when the states took it upon themselves to build the Eisenhower interstates that were within their borders and when they met the neighboring state, someone miscalculated where they would meet. As it turned out, one of the states had to back up and use a bit more real estate to create a curved portion of road to meet the other road surface. I not only am interested in finding the magazine, but in going to the spot of the mistake.
Thanks to any and all who can help me, Jim

Because the internet is what it is, you most likely saw a photoshopped image or illusion of two highways that didn't meet up.  I remember the image of what you're referring to, but like in most cases of "errors" like this, the error never existed, and any details are purposefully vague.

Here's another "error" that didn't actually occur:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/misaligned-bridge-photo/

[kphoger]

My source is my my wife's first cousins husband and ... It's only been 50 or so years since he saw it.

Because the internet is what it is, you most likely saw a photoshopped image or illusion ...

Wow, he must have been a really early adopter of home internet!