On I-39/I-90, the sign will say US 12/18 Madison. Wouldn't it be more helpful to place "Beltline Hwy" underneath the US 12/18 shields since everyone calls it "The Beltline?" Locals know what it is but acknowledging The Beltline on signs can help out of town drivers. It would be helpful to add to the US 51, John Nolen, Fish Hatchery Rd, US 14/US 151 Park St, and US 18/US 151 Verona Rd Interchanges. Most of the signs that say "Beltline Hwy" are City of Madison signs at Whitney Way, Gammon Rd, and guide signs Downtown with a blank US highway shield.
WISDOT does have "Beltline" signs on Todd Drive, Seminole Way, and the on ramps in the area. Wouldn't it be more helpful to acknowledge The Beltline in more signs?
Quote from: peterj920 on August 19, 2022, 03:02:26 AM
On I-39/I-90, the sign will say US 12/18 Madison. Wouldn't it be more helpful to place "Beltline Hwy" underneath the US 12/18 shields since everyone calls it "The Beltline?" Locals know what it is but acknowledging The Beltline on signs can help out of town drivers. It would be helpful to add to the US 51, John Nolen, Fish Hatchery Rd, US 14/US 151 Park St, and US 18/US 151 Verona Rd Interchanges. Most of the signs that say "Beltline Hwy" are City of Madison signs at Whitney Way, Gammon Rd, and guide signs Downtown with a blank US highway shield.
WISDOT does have "Beltline" signs on Todd Drive, Seminole Way, and the on ramps in the area. Wouldn't it be more helpful to acknowledge The Beltline in more signs?
They don't acknowledge anything in Milwaukee (Marquette Interchange, Zoo Interchange, etc).
Quote from: peterj920 on August 19, 2022, 03:02:26 AM
On I-39/I-90, the sign will say US 12/18 Madison. Wouldn't it be more helpful to place "Beltline Hwy" underneath the US 12/18 shields since everyone calls it "The Beltline?" Locals know what it is but acknowledging The Beltline on signs can help out of town drivers. It would be helpful to add to the US 51, John Nolen, Fish Hatchery Rd, US 14/US 151 Park St, and US 18/US 151 Verona Rd Interchanges. Most of the signs that say "Beltline Hwy" are City of Madison signs at Whitney Way, Gammon Rd, and guide signs Downtown with a blank US highway shield.
WISDOT does have "Beltline" signs on Todd Drive, Seminole Way, and the on ramps in the area. Wouldn't it be more helpful to acknowledge The Beltline in more signs?
It could be. I am not sure how much confusion it causes.
Quote from: SSOWorld on August 19, 2022, 05:56:58 AM
They don't acknowledge anything in Milwaukee (Marquette Interchange, Zoo Interchange, etc).
I don't think interchanges are mentioned much on BGSs. If ever? I have seen interchange distances and times on the traffic signs in the Milwaukee area.
Do other cities like Chicago put the expressway/freeway names on guide signs or just the route shields?
Quote from: tchafe1978 on August 19, 2022, 10:10:49 AM
Do other cities like Chicago put the expressway/freeway names on guide signs or just the route shields?
Yes, they do for Chicago.
At the Beltline + I-39/90 interchange I wouldn't mind "Beltline Hwy" being the control for US-12/18 WB. "Madison" doesn't really help as you're already in Madison and it's very ambiguous.
Quote from: thspfc on August 19, 2022, 11:55:23 AM
At the Beltline + I-39/90 interchange I wouldn't mind "Beltline Hwy" being the control for US-12/18 WB. "Madison" doesn't really help as you're already in Madison and it's very ambiguous.
It makes perfect sense to have "Madison" when "Cambridge" is the other control city. Sure you are technically IN Madison, but 99% of the city lies west of the interchange.
That being said, putting "Beltline Hwy" under Madison is fine by me.
You already have US 12 shown. As that's the (only) route that follows the entirety of the Beltline, you have the Beltline covered.
Also, IIRC, FHWA and/or the MUTCD frown upon having both road/street names and control cities on the same sign. You could theoretically include the Beltline, but then you'd have to ditch Cambridge.
I wouldn't oppose guide signs identifing the Beltline Highway name, but I doubt it will happen. How many people outside of the Madison area know or refer to the entirety of the US 12/14/18/151 freeway as "the Beltline"?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 19, 2022, 02:17:09 PM
I wouldn't oppose guide signs identifing the Beltline Highway name, but I doubt it will happen. How many people outside of the Madison area know or refer to the entirety of the US 12/14/18/151 freeway as "the Beltline"?
If they are going to add anything it should be Dodgeville since that is where US 18 goes.
Quote from: froggie on August 19, 2022, 12:39:30 PM
You already have US 12 shown. As that's the (only) route that follows the entirety of the Beltline, you have the Beltline covered.
Also, IIRC, FHWA and/or the MUTCD frown upon having both road/street names and control cities on the same sign. You could theoretically include the Beltline, but then you'd have to ditch Cambridge.
They could add a supplemental BGS saying "Beltline Hwy Exit 142A" (with or without 12/18 shields), which I think might solve the problems without cluttering up existing signs.
Quote from: dvferyance on August 19, 2022, 05:44:59 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 19, 2022, 02:17:09 PM
I wouldn't oppose guide signs identifing the Beltline Highway name, but I doubt it will happen. How many people outside of the Madison area know or refer to the entirety of the US 12/14/18/151 freeway as "the Beltline"?
If they are going to add anything it should be Dodgeville since that is where US 18 goes.
Dodgeville should be removed as a major control city on US-18/151 in Madison. There's absolutely no metric in which Dodgeville is more worthy of being the control city than Verona is. I'm guessing Dodgeville was the control before Verona became as big as it is, and they didn't bother to change it when they installed new signs a few years ago.
Quote from: thspfc on August 19, 2022, 06:50:14 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on August 19, 2022, 05:44:59 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 19, 2022, 02:17:09 PM
I wouldn't oppose guide signs identifing the Beltline Highway name, but I doubt it will happen. How many people outside of the Madison area know or refer to the entirety of the US 12/14/18/151 freeway as "the Beltline"?
If they are going to add anything it should be Dodgeville since that is where US 18 goes.
Dodgeville should be removed as a major control city on US-18/151 in Madison. There's absolutely no metric in which Dodgeville is more worthy of being the control city than Verona is. I'm guessing Dodgeville was the control before Verona became as big as it is, and they didn't bother to change it when they installed new signs a few years ago.
I think most people in Wisconsin know where Dodgeville is. It's the home of Lands End and where US 151 turns south to Dubuque and Mineral Point. It's like Tomah; not significant by itself but important for its location.
Quote from: dvferyance on August 19, 2022, 05:44:59 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 19, 2022, 02:17:09 PM
I wouldn't oppose guide signs identifing the Beltline Highway name, but I doubt it will happen. How many people outside of the Madison area know or refer to the entirety of the US 12/14/18/151 freeway as "the Beltline"?
If they are going to add anything it should be Dodgeville since that is where US 18 goes.
If anything it would be Dubuque, but neither makes much sense.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 19, 2022, 06:19:29 PM
Quote from: froggie on August 19, 2022, 12:39:30 PM
You already have US 12 shown. As that's the (only) route that follows the entirety of the Beltline, you have the Beltline covered.
Also, IIRC, FHWA and/or the MUTCD frown upon having both road/street names and control cities on the same sign. You could theoretically include the Beltline, but then you'd have to ditch Cambridge.
They could add a supplemental BGS saying "Beltline Hwy Exit 142A" (with or without 12/18 shields), which I think might solve the problems without cluttering up existing signs.
Yes that would be an option that's MUTCD-compliant.
I'm just surprised Wisconsin hasn't already started referring to the Beltline as I-194 or I-390, or something like that. If I were WISDOT, that's what I'd be doing.
^ Pretty sure there's a category or three of Interstate standards that the Beltline is short on. Nevermind that there isn't any real benefit for WisDOT to do so.
Quote from: froggie on August 19, 2022, 11:20:03 PM
^ Pretty sure there's a category or three of Interstate standards that the Beltline is short on. Nevermind that there isn't any real benefit for WisDOT to do so.
Given Wisconsin practice, it would just be another shield added to the large mess that's already there anyway.
Quote from: SSOWorld on August 19, 2022, 05:56:58 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on August 19, 2022, 03:02:26 AM
On I-39/I-90, the sign will say US 12/18 Madison. Wouldn't it be more helpful to place "Beltline Hwy" underneath the US 12/18 shields since everyone calls it "The Beltline?" Locals know what it is but acknowledging The Beltline on signs can help out of town drivers. It would be helpful to add to the US 51, John Nolen, Fish Hatchery Rd, US 14/US 151 Park St, and US 18/US 151 Verona Rd Interchanges. Most of the signs that say "Beltline Hwy" are City of Madison signs at Whitney Way, Gammon Rd, and guide signs Downtown with a blank US highway shield.
WISDOT does have "Beltline" signs on Todd Drive, Seminole Way, and the on ramps in the area. Wouldn't it be more helpful to acknowledge The Beltline in more signs?
They don't acknowledge anything in Milwaukee (Marquette Interchange, Zoo Interchange, etc).
The only named interchange that I see signage for in Wisconsin is the Michael G. Ellis Memorial Interchange on US 10 and I-41. Here's a look from google street view.
https://goo.gl/maps/YdkuGbLAsJEjqaGY6
Quote from: skluth on August 19, 2022, 07:12:38 PM
Quote from: thspfc on August 19, 2022, 06:50:14 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on August 19, 2022, 05:44:59 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 19, 2022, 02:17:09 PM
I wouldn't oppose guide signs identifing the Beltline Highway name, but I doubt it will happen. How many people outside of the Madison area know or refer to the entirety of the US 12/14/18/151 freeway as "the Beltline"?
If they are going to add anything it should be Dodgeville since that is where US 18 goes.
Dodgeville should be removed as a major control city on US-18/151 in Madison. There's absolutely no metric in which Dodgeville is more worthy of being the control city than Verona is. I'm guessing Dodgeville was the control before Verona became as big as it is, and they didn't bother to change it when they installed new signs a few years ago.
I think most people in Wisconsin know where Dodgeville is. It's the home of Lands End and where US 151 turns south to Dubuque and Mineral Point. It's like Tomah; not significant by itself but important for its location.
I think most people in Wisconsin know where Verona is. It's the home of Epic and where WI-69 turns south to New Glarus and Monroe. It's like Sun Prairie; quite significant by itself.
And you woefully missed my point anyways.
Quote
There's absolutely no metric in which Dodgeville is more worthy of being the control city than Verona is.
Quote from: peterj920 on August 20, 2022, 04:21:22 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on August 19, 2022, 05:56:58 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on August 19, 2022, 03:02:26 AM
On I-39/I-90, the sign will say US 12/18 Madison. Wouldn't it be more helpful to place "Beltline Hwy" underneath the US 12/18 shields since everyone calls it "The Beltline?" Locals know what it is but acknowledging The Beltline on signs can help out of town drivers. It would be helpful to add to the US 51, John Nolen, Fish Hatchery Rd, US 14/US 151 Park St, and US 18/US 151 Verona Rd Interchanges. Most of the signs that say "Beltline Hwy" are City of Madison signs at Whitney Way, Gammon Rd, and guide signs Downtown with a blank US highway shield.
WISDOT does have "Beltline" signs on Todd Drive, Seminole Way, and the on ramps in the area. Wouldn't it be more helpful to acknowledge The Beltline in more signs?
They don't acknowledge anything in Milwaukee (Marquette Interchange, Zoo Interchange, etc).
The only named interchange that I see signage for in Wisconsin is the Michael G. Ellis Memorial Interchange on US 10 and I-41. Here's a look from google street view.
https://goo.gl/maps/YdkuGbLAsJEjqaGY6
Somewhat off topic, but the "memorial highways" in Wisconsin are out of control. In Stevens Point, the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Hwy, Korean War Veterans Memorial Hwy, and Polish Heritage Memorial Hwy run
concurrently.Like, when every single road is memorializing something, then it's just meaningless. US-14 being the Frank Lloyd Wright Memorial Highway? That's pretty cool, makes sense because a lot of Wright's architecture is along that corridor. But everything being memorialized by some random highway with no connection is an empty gesture.
Quote from: thspfc on August 20, 2022, 06:50:46 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on August 20, 2022, 04:21:22 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on August 19, 2022, 05:56:58 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on August 19, 2022, 03:02:26 AM
On I-39/I-90, the sign will say US 12/18 Madison. Wouldn't it be more helpful to place "Beltline Hwy" underneath the US 12/18 shields since everyone calls it "The Beltline?" Locals know what it is but acknowledging The Beltline on signs can help out of town drivers. It would be helpful to add to the US 51, John Nolen, Fish Hatchery Rd, US 14/US 151 Park St, and US 18/US 151 Verona Rd Interchanges. Most of the signs that say "Beltline Hwy" are City of Madison signs at Whitney Way, Gammon Rd, and guide signs Downtown with a blank US highway shield.
WISDOT does have "Beltline" signs on Todd Drive, Seminole Way, and the on ramps in the area. Wouldn't it be more helpful to acknowledge The Beltline in more signs?
They don't acknowledge anything in Milwaukee (Marquette Interchange, Zoo Interchange, etc).
The only named interchange that I see signage for in Wisconsin is the Michael G. Ellis Memorial Interchange on US 10 and I-41. Here's a look from google street view.
https://goo.gl/maps/YdkuGbLAsJEjqaGY6
Somewhat off topic, but the "memorial highways" in Wisconsin are out of control. In Stevens Point, the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Hwy, Korean War Veterans Memorial Hwy, and Polish Heritage Memorial Hwy run concurrently.
Like, when every single road is memorializing something, then it's just meaningless. US-14 being the Frank Lloyd Wright Memorial Highway? That's pretty cool, makes sense because a lot of Wright's architecture is along that corridor. But everything being memorialized by some random highway with no connection is an empty gesture.
Especially when Google feels the need to spell out "Wisconsin Firefighters and Emergency Medical Technicians Highway" across the entirety of WIS 54.
Blame the legislature for those Names, not WisDOT. Ellis was a somewhat flamboyant state senator from Neenah, WI.
At least they did retire the World War I veterans' memorial highway (WI 29) name after the last known living combat veteran of that War in the state died several years ago.
Mike
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 20, 2022, 11:51:03 AM
Quote from: froggie on August 19, 2022, 11:20:03 PM
^ Pretty sure there's a category or three of Interstate standards that the Beltline is short on. Nevermind that there isn't any real benefit for WisDOT to do so.
Given Wisconsin practice, it would just be another shield added to the large mess that's already there anyway.
But it would give a bit of clarity in the middle of the madness. I don't really get the argument that "US 12 is the anchor for the highway, that's good enough" when there are no fewer than 3 other US highways entering and exiting the beltline at different points, one of which continues as a freeway after leaving the beltway. A separate designation doesn't really need to happen to provide this clarity, though, just include "beltline highway" on some BGS reassurance shields at the interchanges where one highway leaves the beltline.
Quote from: mgk920 on August 20, 2022, 10:37:09 PM
At least they did retire the World War I veterans' memorial highway (WI 29) name after the last known living combat veteran of that War in the state died several years ago.
Citation needed? Why is it still included in the official WisDOT commemorative designation page? (https://wisconsindot.gov/pages/travel/road/comm-hwys/default.aspx)
Quote from: Molandfreak on August 20, 2022, 10:55:56 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 20, 2022, 11:51:03 AM
Quote from: froggie on August 19, 2022, 11:20:03 PM
^ Pretty sure there's a category or three of Interstate standards that the Beltline is short on. Nevermind that there isn't any real benefit for WisDOT to do so.
Given Wisconsin practice, it would just be another shield added to the large mess that's already there anyway.
But it would give a bit of clarity in the middle of the madness. I don't really get the argument that "US 12 is the anchor for the highway, that's good enough" when there are no fewer than 3 other US highways entering and exiting the beltline at different points, one of which continues as a freeway after leaving the beltway. A separate designation doesn't really need to happen to provide this clarity, though, just include "beltline highway" on some BGS reassurance shields at the interchanges where one highway leaves the beltline.
To anyone who's spent more than 5 minutes in Madison, it's pretty easy to figure out what "The Beltline" is.
What it's clearly not is "The Interstate" - and it doesn't matter which one, because they'll say "I-94" if the section east of Madison hits a traffic report.
It's also not "Stoughton Rd" (US-51 - and you'll get weird looks if you call it "East Beltline") or "Verona Rd" (US-18/151).
Round it out with University Ave, Park St, East Washington Ave (which becomes "151" east of "The Interstate"), and John Nolen Dr, and you have a basic internal compass of how to navigate Madison successfully. I had it pretty well figured out within a week of moving to Madison.
On a list of Madison highway needs, pedantically spelling out "Beltline Hwy" at every exit and interchange ranks at about the same level of need as filling in the blanks on the "To Interstate" highway shields around town, or giving John Nolen Dr an official Wisconsin state highway number.
Quote from: JREwing78 on August 21, 2022, 02:34:42 AM
Quote from: Molandfreak on August 20, 2022, 10:55:56 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 20, 2022, 11:51:03 AM
Quote from: froggie on August 19, 2022, 11:20:03 PM
^ Pretty sure there's a category or three of Interstate standards that the Beltline is short on. Nevermind that there isn't any real benefit for WisDOT to do so.
Given Wisconsin practice, it would just be another shield added to the large mess that's already there anyway.
But it would give a bit of clarity in the middle of the madness. I don't really get the argument that "US 12 is the anchor for the highway, that's good enough" when there are no fewer than 3 other US highways entering and exiting the beltline at different points, one of which continues as a freeway after leaving the beltway. A separate designation doesn't really need to happen to provide this clarity, though, just include "beltline highway" on some BGS reassurance shields at the interchanges where one highway leaves the beltline.
To anyone who's spent more than 5 minutes in Madison, it's pretty easy to figure out what "The Beltline" is.
What it's clearly not is "The Interstate" - and it doesn't matter which one, because they'll say "I-94" if the section east of Madison hits a traffic report.
It's also not "Stoughton Rd" (US-51 - and you'll get weird looks if you call it "East Beltline") or "Verona Rd" (US-18/151).
Round it out with University Ave, Park St, East Washington Ave (which becomes "151" east of "The Interstate"), and John Nolen Dr, and you have a basic internal compass of how to navigate Madison successfully. I had it pretty well figured out within a week of moving to Madison.
On a list of Madison highway needs, pedantically spelling out "Beltline Hwy" at every exit and interchange ranks at about the same level of need as filling in the blanks on the "To Interstate" highway shields around town, or giving John Nolen Dr an official Wisconsin state highway number.
Yeah, this is well stated. The only real issue IMO is that US-151 should be moved to the interstate and Beltline. If it needs to be replaced with some other state highway, that's fine. But putting "Beltline" on a BGS attempts to solve a problem that doesn't actually exist.
Quote from: Molandfreak on August 20, 2022, 10:55:56 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 20, 2022, 11:51:03 AM
Quote from: froggie on August 19, 2022, 11:20:03 PM
^ Pretty sure there's a category or three of Interstate standards that the Beltline is short on. Nevermind that there isn't any real benefit for WisDOT to do so.
Given Wisconsin practice, it would just be another shield added to the large mess that's already there anyway.
But it would give a bit of clarity in the middle of the madness.
There really isn't any madness. It's pretty clear.
Quote from: peterj920 on August 20, 2022, 04:21:22 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on August 19, 2022, 05:56:58 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on August 19, 2022, 03:02:26 AM
On I-39/I-90, the sign will say US 12/18 Madison. Wouldn't it be more helpful to place "Beltline Hwy" underneath the US 12/18 shields since everyone calls it "The Beltline?" Locals know what it is but acknowledging The Beltline on signs can help out of town drivers. It would be helpful to add to the US 51, John Nolen, Fish Hatchery Rd, US 14/US 151 Park St, and US 18/US 151 Verona Rd Interchanges. Most of the signs that say "Beltline Hwy" are City of Madison signs at Whitney Way, Gammon Rd, and guide signs Downtown with a blank US highway shield.
WISDOT does have "Beltline" signs on Todd Drive, Seminole Way, and the on ramps in the area. Wouldn't it be more helpful to acknowledge The Beltline in more signs?
They don't acknowledge anything in Milwaukee (Marquette Interchange, Zoo Interchange, etc).
The only named interchange that I see signage for in Wisconsin is the Michael G. Ellis Memorial Interchange on US 10 and I-41. Here's a look from google street view.
https://goo.gl/maps/YdkuGbLAsJEjqaGY6
Whenever I pass that sign, I snicker. I can't imagine anything more depressing than having an interchange named in my memory.
Quote from: Molandfreak on August 20, 2022, 10:58:29 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on August 20, 2022, 10:37:09 PM
At least they did retire the World War I veterans' memorial highway (WI 29) name after the last known living combat veteran of that War in the state died several years ago.
Citation needed? Why is it still included in the official WisDOT commemorative designation page? (https://wisconsindot.gov/pages/travel/road/comm-hwys/default.aspx)
I don't recall seeing any of the signs the last time I drove that road.
Mike
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 21, 2022, 09:33:30 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on August 20, 2022, 04:21:22 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on August 19, 2022, 05:56:58 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on August 19, 2022, 03:02:26 AM
On I-39/I-90, the sign will say US 12/18 Madison. Wouldn't it be more helpful to place "Beltline Hwy" underneath the US 12/18 shields since everyone calls it "The Beltline?" Locals know what it is but acknowledging The Beltline on signs can help out of town drivers. It would be helpful to add to the US 51, John Nolen, Fish Hatchery Rd, US 14/US 151 Park St, and US 18/US 151 Verona Rd Interchanges. Most of the signs that say "Beltline Hwy" are City of Madison signs at Whitney Way, Gammon Rd, and guide signs Downtown with a blank US highway shield.
WISDOT does have "Beltline" signs on Todd Drive, Seminole Way, and the on ramps in the area. Wouldn't it be more helpful to acknowledge The Beltline in more signs?
They don't acknowledge anything in Milwaukee (Marquette Interchange, Zoo Interchange, etc).
The only named interchange that I see signage for in Wisconsin is the Michael G. Ellis Memorial Interchange on US 10 and I-41. Here's a look from google street view.
https://goo.gl/maps/YdkuGbLAsJEjqaGY6
Whenever I pass that sign, I snicker. I can't imagine anything more depressing than having an interchange named in my memory.
As a roadgeek, that actually kinda sounds nice. I'm not saying that would be my first choice for a memorial sort of thing, but...
Quote from: JoePCool14 on August 21, 2022, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 21, 2022, 09:33:30 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on August 20, 2022, 04:21:22 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on August 19, 2022, 05:56:58 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on August 19, 2022, 03:02:26 AM
On I-39/I-90, the sign will say US 12/18 Madison. Wouldn't it be more helpful to place "Beltline Hwy" underneath the US 12/18 shields since everyone calls it "The Beltline?" Locals know what it is but acknowledging The Beltline on signs can help out of town drivers. It would be helpful to add to the US 51, John Nolen, Fish Hatchery Rd, US 14/US 151 Park St, and US 18/US 151 Verona Rd Interchanges. Most of the signs that say "Beltline Hwy" are City of Madison signs at Whitney Way, Gammon Rd, and guide signs Downtown with a blank US highway shield.
WISDOT does have "Beltline" signs on Todd Drive, Seminole Way, and the on ramps in the area. Wouldn't it be more helpful to acknowledge The Beltline in more signs?
They don't acknowledge anything in Milwaukee (Marquette Interchange, Zoo Interchange, etc).
The only named interchange that I see signage for in Wisconsin is the Michael G. Ellis Memorial Interchange on US 10 and I-41. Here's a look from google street view.
https://goo.gl/maps/YdkuGbLAsJEjqaGY6
Whenever I pass that sign, I snicker. I can't imagine anything more depressing than having an interchange named in my memory.
As a roadgeek, that actually kinda sounds nice. I'm not saying that would be my first choice for a memorial sort of thing, but...
More awkward to me is when they name an overpass for someone, just a standard overpass that looks no different or more significant than any other overpass.
Speaking as someone who has dealt with the Beltline in the relatively recent past as a stranger to Madison, I don't feel it would have helped to have had it signed. The name itself has far less map relatability than US 12, US 18, and US 151, which were the designations I was looking for since I initially approached from the southwest via Dodgeville and Verona.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 21, 2022, 09:33:30 AM
Whenever I pass that sign, I snicker. I can't imagine anything more depressing than having an interchange named in my memory.
Certain, uh, plumbing fixtures at rest areas and parks. Yes, I've seen those.
Quote from: JREwing78 on August 21, 2022, 02:34:42 AM
Quote from: Molandfreak on August 20, 2022, 10:55:56 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 20, 2022, 11:51:03 AM
Quote from: froggie on August 19, 2022, 11:20:03 PM
^ Pretty sure there's a category or three of Interstate standards that the Beltline is short on. Nevermind that there isn't any real benefit for WisDOT to do so.
Given Wisconsin practice, it would just be another shield added to the large mess that's already there anyway.
But it would give a bit of clarity in the middle of the madness. I don't really get the argument that "US 12 is the anchor for the highway, that's good enough" when there are no fewer than 3 other US highways entering and exiting the beltline at different points, one of which continues as a freeway after leaving the beltway. A separate designation doesn't really need to happen to provide this clarity, though, just include "beltline highway" on some BGS reassurance shields at the interchanges where one highway leaves the beltline.
To anyone who's spent more than 5 minutes in Madison, it's pretty easy to figure out what "The Beltline" is.
What it's clearly not is "The Interstate" - and it doesn't matter which one, because they'll say "I-94" if the section east of Madison hits a traffic report.
It's also not "Stoughton Rd" (US-51 - and you'll get weird looks if you call it "East Beltline") or "Verona Rd" (US-18/151).
Round it out with University Ave, Park St, East Washington Ave (which becomes "151" east of "The Interstate"), and John Nolen Dr, and you have a basic internal compass of how to navigate Madison successfully. I had it pretty well figured out within a week of moving to Madison.
On a list of Madison highway needs, pedantically spelling out "Beltline Hwy" at every exit and interchange ranks at about the same level of need as filling in the blanks on the "To Interstate" highway shields around town, or giving John Nolen Dr an official Wisconsin state highway number.
I was thinking about this in comparison to the MN 62 "Crosstown", which would probably and somewhat reasonably get about three or four different answers from people who were unfamiliar or only vaguely familiar with Twin Cities routes.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 21, 2022, 06:49:31 PM
More awkward to me is when they name an overpass for someone, just a standard overpass that looks no different or more significant than any other overpass.
Georgia is full of those.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 21, 2022, 06:49:31 PM
Quote from: JoePCool14 on August 21, 2022, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 21, 2022, 09:33:30 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on August 20, 2022, 04:21:22 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on August 19, 2022, 05:56:58 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on August 19, 2022, 03:02:26 AM
On I-39/I-90, the sign will say US 12/18 Madison. Wouldn't it be more helpful to place "Beltline Hwy" underneath the US 12/18 shields since everyone calls it "The Beltline?" Locals know what it is but acknowledging The Beltline on signs can help out of town drivers. It would be helpful to add to the US 51, John Nolen, Fish Hatchery Rd, US 14/US 151 Park St, and US 18/US 151 Verona Rd Interchanges. Most of the signs that say "Beltline Hwy" are City of Madison signs at Whitney Way, Gammon Rd, and guide signs Downtown with a blank US highway shield.
WISDOT does have "Beltline" signs on Todd Drive, Seminole Way, and the on ramps in the area. Wouldn't it be more helpful to acknowledge The Beltline in more signs?
They don't acknowledge anything in Milwaukee (Marquette Interchange, Zoo Interchange, etc).
The only named interchange that I see signage for in Wisconsin is the Michael G. Ellis Memorial Interchange on US 10 and I-41. Here's a look from google street view.
https://goo.gl/maps/YdkuGbLAsJEjqaGY6
Whenever I pass that sign, I snicker. I can't imagine anything more depressing than having an interchange named in my memory.
As a roadgeek, that actually kinda sounds nice. I'm not saying that would be my first choice for a memorial sort of thing, but...
More awkward to me is when they name an overpass for someone, just a standard overpass that looks no different or more significant than any other overpass.
Metaphor for life in general?
Quote from: JREwing78 on August 21, 2022, 02:34:42 AM
Quote from: Molandfreak on August 20, 2022, 10:55:56 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 20, 2022, 11:51:03 AM
Quote from: froggie on August 19, 2022, 11:20:03 PM
^ Pretty sure there's a category or three of Interstate standards that the Beltline is short on. Nevermind that there isn't any real benefit for WisDOT to do so.
Given Wisconsin practice, it would just be another shield added to the large mess that's already there anyway.
But it would give a bit of clarity in the middle of the madness. I don't really get the argument that "US 12 is the anchor for the highway, that's good enough" when there are no fewer than 3 other US highways entering and exiting the beltline at different points, one of which continues as a freeway after leaving the beltway. A separate designation doesn't really need to happen to provide this clarity, though, just include "beltline highway" on some BGS reassurance shields at the interchanges where one highway leaves the beltline.
To anyone who's spent more than 5 minutes in Madison, it's pretty easy to figure out what "The Beltline" is.
What it's clearly not is "The Interstate" - and it doesn't matter which one, because they'll say "I-94" if the section east of Madison hits a traffic report.
It's also not "Stoughton Rd" (US-51 - and you'll get weird looks if you call it "East Beltline") or "Verona Rd" (US-18/151).
Round it out with University Ave, Park St, East Washington Ave (which becomes "151" east of "The Interstate"), and John Nolen Dr, and you have a basic internal compass of how to navigate Madison successfully. I had it pretty well figured out within a week of moving to Madison.
On a list of Madison highway needs, pedantically spelling out "Beltline Hwy" at every exit and interchange ranks at about the same level of need as filling in the blanks on the "To Interstate" highway shields around town, or giving John Nolen Dr an official Wisconsin state highway number.
I would also say University Ave being the main route through the westside and UW campus on that internal compass list. But I get it.
As for putting Beltline Hwy in the BGS, I would only use it at I-39/90 and place it next to the 12/18 shields on the right in a smaller text font a la Chicago-style.